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What Silicon Valley Can Do For Homeland Security

An anonymous reader writes "Small, agile development firms are just what security in the United States needs, argues an article on Ars Technica. The piece compares the processes used in small Silicon Valley firms to those used in security contractors retained by the U.S. Government. Mr. Stokes' conclusion? The U.S. has a lot to learn from small companies." From the article: "Whether it's nuke detection technology at ports, computer automated wiretapping and data traffic snooping, or massive government data mining operations, our present approach to homeland security is embodied for me in those 14-foot pillars: ponderous, expensive technologies designed by government-funded teams of scientists who're working in vain to outmaneuver not just the terrorists, but the surging global market for technological innovation in which those terrorists thrive. By way of contrast, the Sandia group's DIY nuke detector represents an attempt to fight fire with fire by harnessing the same market forces and entrepreneurial spirit that terrorists have learned to use so effectively."

120 comments

  1. Small Firms? by mfh · · Score: 2, Funny

    What about lone coders like me?

    Call me, Uncle Sam... I can help consult on your problems. Now please lay down on this couch and tell me about your mother.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Small Firms? by E++99 · · Score: 1

      Think you can help? Go to the DARPA web site and look at their Requests For Proposals. If you truely have the skills (and don't mind piles of paperwork), they have grant money for you.

      FYI, the programs that they have major interest in at the present include self-healing networks, in-the-field real-time portable translation devices, and such. One particularly freaky program they're interested in involves implanting electronic devices in flying insects to control them.

  2. Quiz from the Article by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

    Take a look at the following list of answers, and tell me which of these two questions they go with: (a) "what is the Cold War," or (b) "what is the GSAVE":

    -It's a long, global struggle that pits freedom and democracy against an evil, oppressive ideology.

    -It's a struggle that involves a series of conventional armed conflicts against state actors, as a way of staving off a nuclear catastrophe.

    -It's a struggle that can be won by granting huge contracts to large, well-connected firms to develop advanced technology for surveillance and weapons.

    -It's something that we could use a really expensive anti-ballistic missle shield for.





    Answer: Regardless of whether you answered (a) or (b), you're right either way.



    Ok, so it was a trick question, but still interesting article.

  3. yay by jt418-93 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    so now i can code to oppress. yay.

    dhs = stasi. not something i really want to support.

    i am against secret courts, secret searches and secret police.

    i had my chane to code for the gov back in the 90's. i said pass then, i'll pass now.

    --
    -.no
  4. Secure? by steve-o-yeah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While smaller firms may foster more rapid innovation, sub-contracting some of the nations most sensitive technical development significantly increases the exposure to infiltration.

    --
    I hate the term 'Sig'.
    1. Re:Secure? by dr_dank · · Score: 2

      While smaller firms may foster more rapid innovation, sub-contracting some of the nations most sensitive technical development significantly increases the exposure to infiltration.

      I was thinking about this the other day. If a war similar to WW2 broke out, theres no way domestic industry, dramatically weakened by years of offshoring and a lesser emphasis on manual trades/hard sciences, could keep up. During WW2, planes, tanks, clothing, food, and assorted materials were all domestic. As long as the homefront was protected, the war production effort would continue.

      Reliance on overseas producers for mass production, R&D, etc would come home to roost.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    2. Re:Secure? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Even worse, aren't a lot of military components (like LCD screens) manufactured abroad too? It'd be kinda hard to fight a war against China when we import our military hardware from there.

    3. Re:Secure? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Actualy that's kind of a bogus arguement because what the article is really talking about is Off The Self equipment and software; the stuff that anyone can buy. The net result would be we wouldn't have to worry about an enemy stealing our secret weapons, they'd just buy them the same place we do, at Guns-R-Us, an equal oppertunity weapons dealership!

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    4. Re:Secure? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I read recently that Boeing imports its advanced avionics from Japan, because they can't get that kind of equipment here anymore. Granted Japan is an ally, but nevertheless it's another sign of deteriorating independence. America, Land of the Brave, Home of the Free ... just don't ask us to build a flat panel or a microwave oven. People wonder about the shrinking middle class. It seems to me that it is shrinking in direct proportion to the number of factories that are moving to China.

      We really are shooting ourselves in the foot by allowing our Captains of Industry (are you listening, Carly?), our elected leaders and unelected, largely unaccountable government officials to sell us out this way. We are going to pay for it, and pay hard.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  5. It's a flawed bueracracy. by Skynet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the reasons I left government contracting for the commercial software development world.

    Government is more interested in your CMMI level (another flawed system but I'll leave that for another discussion) and how many PhD's your company has than the quality of your work and agility of your team.

    --
    Execute? [Y/N] _
    1. Re:It's a flawed bueracracy. by ohearn · · Score: 3, Informative

      I work for the Army Aviation and Missile Command and I will agree to a point. I know that at least the Army has been pushing more lean approaches the last couple years, and we have gotten rid of a large amount, but not all, of the bloated beurocrasy in our development practices. I can only speak for this specific command, but the Army wide initiatives are what started a lot of it here. I am not saying that the development process here is nearly as clean and to the point as a lot of small businesses that I have worked for, but with size come beurocrasy. I can just say that it has gotten signifigantly better in the last year or 2. It is still a long way from perfect, but the old processes were truly horrendous.

    2. Re:It's a flawed bueracracy. by egeorge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Isn't the term "flawed bureaucracy" sort of redundant?

  6. The culture is slow to change by OakDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I didn't know what to call it, so I just said 'culture.' We could call it defense, we could call it homeland security.

    The culture for so long has been so immersed in expensive, bulky solutions, it will change slowly if at all. The government just doesn't feel right unless their dealing with a huge company and huge expenses. For one thing, in a way it justifies politicians existence to the voters. "Hey, look how much we're spending on security!" And truth to tell, there may be other dangers in dealing with smaller, nimbler companies.

    On a lighter note, I thought this was amusing:

    Whether it's nuke detection technology at ports, computer automated wiretapping and data traffic snooping, or massive government data mining operations...

    I know that geeks, /.ers in particular, are lining up to work with the government on wiretapping!

    1. Re:The culture is slow to change by rbochan · · Score: 1
      ...The culture for so long has been so immersed in expensive, bulky solutions, it will change slowly if at all...


      It won't change - not as long as cronyism and greed make the rules*.

      *ref: Cheney, Halliburton

      --
      ...Rob
      The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    2. Re:The culture is slow to change by jafac · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is;
      Small companies, with "lightweight" processes have traditionally been used as fronts for fraud and waste (a.k.a. "war-profiteering"). (example: ex-Senator Cunningham's dealings with "small contractor" MZM, or Shirlington Limousine, etc.)

      With the implicit oversight involved with larger corporations (who tend to shun smaller contracts), this kind of fraud is less likely (though clearly not impossible - see Boeing's tanker-leasing deal). These large, established corporations tend to have established reputations they'd like to protect.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all small companies are red flags for fraud, and I'm not saying all large companies are 100% safe. I'm saying that established oversight and processes common to large companies and larger contracts tend to weed-out the most common fraudulent practices.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    3. Re:The culture is slow to change by E++99 · · Score: 1
      I know that geeks, /.ers in particular, are lining up to work with the government on wiretapping!
      Which also begs the question of whether they'll give you a top secret clearance after having read all your /. posts!
    4. Re:The culture is slow to change by pyro_peter_911 · · Score: 1
      I know that geeks, /.ers in particular, are lining up to work with the government on wiretapping!


      I have a brilliant, inexpensive, 100% reliable, portable nuclear weapon detector that I'm trying to sell to the government. Before I begin full scale production, I've been trying to get the DOD to give me a few dozen nukes so I can properly test my device. Due to the bureaucracy involved I haven't yet received the nukes that I've requested, but I have received 1200Kg of 3/4" ball bearings, an invoice for the USS Arizona, and a large ticking package from Langley, Virginia.


      Peter

    5. Re:The culture is slow to change by deKernel · · Score: 1

      Do you even have an understanding of the contracts that went to Halliburton?

      Let me give you a little glimmer. Most of the contracts were of the size that only a small handful of companies in the whole world can fulfill. Halliburton can, in effect, deliver a rolling economy for a country. Being that I am pretty sure you are refering to Iraq, there economy was in shambles and not just because of the war. They needed a solution and quick so what were the options? Elicite firms from countries like France and Germany for which were countries that worked around the UN sanctions?

    6. Re:The culture is slow to change by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      At one stage that was true, maybe twenty odd years ago. Now large corporations thrive on PR, junk journalists, junk scientists, junk politicians and lawyers, more lawyers and yet more lawyers.

      Big corporations can now achieve fraud on a scale never before realised (deregulation and privatisation have been a boon for corporate profits). The only oversight in the last twenty years, is with regard to increasing the share price and ensuring a constant increase in the pay of upper management.

      Of course there seems to be very little oversight into how those two goals are achieved, as long as they are and any ramifications that results occur only after upper management has left the building (sometimes even the country) with as much money as they possibly can.

      Eliminating fraud is never driven by the supplier it is always driven by the customer. Large contracts have always been the target of the greatest fraud, simply because it is so easy to bury any problems within the scope of the contract or as has been the case just recently, don't even bother to bury it, just have blank cheque, no bid, mega contracts (and virtually guarantee a total lack of competitiveness by ensuring no other companies but the one that has paid for that privileged can get the contract).

      From my own experience, I know that to achieve competitive results, completion targets and quality work, your broke up contracts in small, readily supervisable and controlled parts, it took a lot more effort, but this achieved the required goals. Large contracts just reek of laziness, cronyism and vested interests and are designed to do nothing but limit the number of companies that can tender for the work and of course reciprocate any "favours". The lie of big is better can be no more clearly demonstrated by the same corporations who claim big is better, breaking up the contract into small pieces and subcontracting the work at actual competitive rates and keeping the difference as profit or waste if your the much abused taxpayer paying for their profits.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  7. Small, agile firms are essential everywhere by pieterh · · Score: 2

    It's not just in security but in every domain. Small firms are the ones that innovate best. Big firms are best at exploiting a market.

    This is one of the reasons that software patents - which hit small firms disproportionately - are so bad for innovation. Anything that makes life harder for small firms - red tape, software patents, litigation, etc. - is bad for the economy because small-to-medium firms are what keep our economies healthy.

    1. Re:Small, agile firms are essential everywhere by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Right, but innovation isn't important. Our politicians like big companies better (probably because they give them more "campaign donations"), so that's what we have to use.

  8. Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I still think the US should simply pull it's military out of the world and make peace and free trade instead of trying to employ everyone with FUD and wars. It's so much cheaper and simpler.

    1. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Great idea! We should have responded to Pearl Harbor with happy flower sprinkles! We should have sent Osama a caring, well-intentioned care-package. Look at me, I'm the perfect utopian America! Everyone laughs at me, but that's ok, I'm irrelevant on global issues!

      </sarcasm>

      No thanks. One France is enough for the world.

    2. Re:Not the right approach by Sodade · · Score: 1

      Trying to draw a parallel between Pearl Harbor and 9/11 is rediculous. Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked attack by a world superpower - reacting to that with force was the only thing we could have done. 9/11 was provoked by over 50 years of oil hungry meddling in the Middle East and was perpetrated by an underdog with box cutters. Our insane reaction to that - Iraq - is futile and counter productive.

      Why don't you go wave a flag or something?

    3. Re:Not the right approach by peterpressure · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Pearl harbor = unprovoked?
      I would assume the japanese at the time would not think so,
      Peace Negogiations prior to pearl harbor had fell apart 30 minutes before the attack...
      DO SOME RESEARCH B4 U LOOK DUM!!
      Your correct though, Pearl Harbo and 9/11 are different, More died on 9/11...

    4. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good news, you're right.
      Bad news, you're wrong.

      Pearl Harbor and 9/11 are different. With Pearl Harbor we had a country/state/nation attack us. However, it was not unprovoked. The US and Japan already engaged in heated exchanges prior to the attacks. The bombing was a surprise attack, but not completely out of the blue. Afterwards, we were able to declare war on a country/state/nation using the rules of engagement that every war had been fought with for hundreds of years. We could attack any piece of land they owned. We could embargo their shores to cut off supplies and help tear down their economy.

      With 9/11 we had a rogue band of Islamic radicals hijack planes and change the rules of engagement forever. We don't have a country/state/nation to attack. We don't have an economy we can deflate in hopes of bankrupting their war machine. We don't have specific land that is open for attack because they own it. They are harbored by nations and sheltered by anonymity.

      It's a war against an ideal, not a land mass. It's a war that spans continents, not just countries. The Islamic radicals would like to rule the land they did 800 years ago. That land was taken away from them by the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Spanish, the French, the list goes on and on.

      It's a war that is waged against all free countries, not just the United States. The Unites States just happens to be the big dog on the block that gets blamed for all problems.

    5. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pearl Harbor unprovoked? You need to read up on a guy named Arthur McCollum.

    6. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, even though you say it like a goddamned moron.

    7. Re:Not the right approach by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's a war against an ideal, not a land mass. It's a war that spans continents, not just countries. The Islamic radicals would like to rule the land they did 800 years ago. That land was taken away from them by the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Spanish, the French, the list goes on and on.

      You're mostly right, except for the bit here about the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire didn't do anything to the Muslims. Islam didn't come around until 500 CE or so; Rome had already fallen by that point. I'm just guessing the British Empire probably had the most to do with their loss of land. And for all the bad things the British Empire did, this is probably a very good thing; can you imagine if most of the world now lived under Sharia Law? No thanks. We probably wouldn't even have electricity yet.

    8. Re:Not the right approach by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      It seems to be this idea has been picked up by one of the start-ups in Bora-Bora.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    9. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, it is also much less profitable for certain individuals.

    10. Re:Not the right approach by paulyche · · Score: 1

      The Roman Empire can be traced from the Kingdom of Rome through to the fall of the 'Byzantine' Empire in 1453. Inhabitants of the region continued to think of themselves as 'Roman' long after the capital was moved from Rome to Constantinople. The idea that the Roman/Byzantine Empire was distinct from the Classical Roman Empire is largely a fiction.

      Here's a dodgy unsubstatiated source :-) Byzantine Empire

    11. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I still think the US should simply pull it's military out of the world and make peace and free trade instead of trying to employ everyone with FUD and wars. It's so much cheaper and simpler.

      Not to mention; morally superior!

    12. Re:Not the right approach by GigG · · Score: 1

      I still think the US should simply pull it's military out of the world and make peace and free trade instead of trying to employ everyone with FUD and wars. It's so much cheaper and simpler.

      Jimmy Carter tried that '77-'80. It didn't work well at all.

      --
      Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
    13. Re:Not the right approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked attack by a world superpower - reacting to that with force was the only thing we could have done. 9/11 was provoked by over 50 years of oil hungry meddling in the Middle East and was perpetrated by an underdog with box cutters.

      The Japanese complained about pretty much the same grievances -- 50 years of US 'meddling' and military occupation in the Pacific, namely Hawai'i, the Phillipines, interference in the war in China, and refusal to trade oil to Japan. (In those days, the US was the world's largest exporter of oil.)

  9. Why the slam on government scientists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    our present approach to homeland security is embodied for me in those 14-foot pillars: ponderous, expensive technologies designed by government-funded teams of scientists who're working in vain to outmaneuver

    This quote from the article makes it sound like government scientists are incompetent boobs. The ones I know aren't. This sounds more like a political screed for the privatization of security than anything else.

    1. Re:Why the slam on government scientists? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No one said government scientists were incompetent boobs. But the plain truth is that it doesn't matter how smart your scientists or engineers in an organization are, because poor organization and management will prevent them from doing anything worthwhile. Take a look at Microsoft: they claim to have so many smart people employed there, yet their products suck, and worse yet, what has their famed "Microsoft Research" department ever done? It's the same way with the government. Take a bunch of smart people, stick them under a ton of beaurocracy and bad management, and very little will get done. It doesn't have to be this way, of course: look at the US space program in the Apollo days. They went from shooting a few Sputnik-sized satellites into orbit to landing men on the moon in less than a decade, due to not only great scientists and engineers, but also I would assume at least decent management to facilitate their work, plus sufficient funding. What have they done since that? Nothing that comes close to that level of achievement. If we had progressed at that same pace we had in the late 60s, we would have stations in earth orbit with artificial gravity and a moon base, just like in Clarke's "2001".

      Smart people can be far more productive in an environment that facilitates their work.

  10. Here's a dose of reality by AnyLoveIsGoodLove · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although I agree with the basic premise that government can learn a lot from start ups small businesses, here's what life's like around the beltway.

    Note: I work for a consulting firm based out of the DC area. We have a combination of commercial and Federal / Public sector clients

    From the small business side:

    You can't imagine the procurement requirements and overhead costs to do business in the Federal sector. Here are some examples:

    1) FSO - Security officer to manage the clearances of your employees and company. Can't live with out it
    2) Contract Vehicles - GSA Schedules are expensive to maintain or outsource.
    3) Contracting Officers - Specialist who deal with government Contracting Officers.
    4) Low Rates - Combined with the large overhead requirements above, is a problem. Trying finding competent technical help in DC.
    5) Accounts Receivable that can stretch to 180 days without blinking.
    6) Can't leverage commerical sales, must hire a dedicated sales force that understands the market.

    Again for the big beltway bandits, these are small overhead items, but for a 150 person company, these are significant line items.

    From the Government Side:

    1) Risk adverse. If you screw up a small project or procurement, you could wind up on the cover of the Washington post. Not a good place to be if you're a GS12 bureaucrat waiting for your GS13.
    2) Insane Budget Cycles: If you don't use it you lose it. There's a reason why so much gets done in late August / September around DC.
    3) Preference for the "usual suspects" like Lockheed, Booz Allen, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Unisys, Titan etc. With items one and two, why try a new small untested company. Many companies around the beltway have gone out of business and screwed the gov. At least you know they are not going any where.
    4) Compliance requirements that make SarbOX look like child's play.

    That's just a small hint at the problems with doing business with the federal governement. I sure the UK or other Western Countries have the same issues. ...... but......why might you ask do companies invest at the end of the day....?

    There are not too many super enterprises that release contracts on a multi-year basis. Once you get over the moat, you are in.

    --
    "It's technical in a psychometric kind a way" -- C. Parish
    1. Re:Here's a dose of reality by El+Torico · · Score: 1
      This is the only part that I don't agree with,

      4) Low Rates - Combined with the large overhead requirements above, is a problem. Trying finding competent technical help in DC.

      It is possible to find competent technical help in the National Capitol Region, but finding competent technical help with clearances who are willing to face one of the world's worst commutes and pay them enough to cover their over $650,000 mortgages is difficult.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    2. Re:Here's a dose of reality by AnyLoveIsGoodLove · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected. If you know anyone that's looking.............

      --
      "It's technical in a psychometric kind a way" -- C. Parish
    3. Re:Here's a dose of reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What type of people are you looking for?

    4. Re:Here's a dose of reality by jafac · · Score: 1

      There's a good reason for all this overhead. Well, most of it.

      It's an attempt to prevent fraud and abuse.

      It doesn't stop all fraud, it doesn't stop clever people from gaming the system (it's just a more complex game), and, of course, the system is only as good as the political hacks that are put into place to police it. But the absence of this overhead makes it much easier to get those contracts for the "$1000 hammer" that never get delivered.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    5. Re:Here's a dose of reality by AnyLoveIsGoodLove · · Score: 1

      Enterprise Storage and Backup, both consulting and engineering.

      --
      "It's technical in a psychometric kind a way" -- C. Parish
    6. Re:Here's a dose of reality by AnyLoveIsGoodLove · · Score: 1

      I heartily agree with the intentions behind all those controls. They exist for a good reasons. In practice they have not prevented serious fraud and abuse, even among the big boys. Ask Boeing.

      At the end of the day it comes down to honest people. That's a hard commodity to find these days. It makes a higher barrier to entry on the overall market for the honest people / companies, which goes back to a companies SG&A and ultimately drives prices higher.

      Just my 2.

      In general, I dont think we as a country have done a cost / risk analysis on the controls. My goal is not to do away with them, but to focus on the controls that provide the most protection for the least amount of cash. SARBOX is a perfect example, out of the hundreds of pages of financial controls, which ones provide the most bang for the buck and which ones waste corporate / taxpayer dollars.

      It's a simple question that should be answered when the laws are passed.

      --
      "It's technical in a psychometric kind a way" -- C. Parish
    7. Re:Here's a dose of reality by El+Torico · · Score: 1

      I was going to say that someone is always looking in the NCR, but the AC post already demonstrated that. As for me, I'm a general purpose Network Engineer who is now a Project Manager. Also, I'm only interested in overseas positions since I don't like living in Northern Virginia (even though I'm a native) and I really like the tax free set aside and living allowances - ka-ching!

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    8. Re:Here's a dose of reality by jafac · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      It would be great if we can get away from this fundamentalist idology false dilemma of either you support 100% complete de-regulation, or your a commie.

      There's plenty of room for refinement of process. Unfortunately, it's one of the most red-hot swollen festering political buttons right now.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  11. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    "...attempt to fight fire with fire by harnessing the same market forces and entrepreneurial spirit that terrorists have learned to use so effectively."

    Market forces? Terrorists haven't harnessed any market forces or entrepreneurial spirit! Our Western governments have already lost this so called "war on terror" by sailing our freedoms down the river on the basis that we are all supposed to be terribly afraid! That's the whole point of "terrorism"!! Al'qaida/Taliban/Eye-raq-ees/Space Monkeys won the moment we changed our way of life in direct response to their actions.

  12. (Flamebait ;) by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Funny
    What Silicon Valley Can Do For Homeland Security
    Not vote Republican? ;)
    1. Re:(Flamebait ;) by db32 · · Score: 1

      I thought it was funny. :)

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    2. Re:(Flamebait ;) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny? That doesn't even make sense. You prefer the weak or nonexistent responses to the embassy bombings in Africa, the U.S.S. Cole bombing, the Khobar Towers bombing, and the ambush of U.S. troops in Somalia that were the status quo under Bill Clinton? I'm not saying that Bush Sr. or Dole would have done anything differently had they won the elections instead of Clinton, but please don't pretend like we wouldn't be where we are today if Al Gore were sitting in the White House.

    3. Re:(Flamebait ;) by demigod · · Score: 1

      You prefer the weak or nonexistent responses to ...


      I would.

      I prefer that over an administration that wipes it's ass with our Constitution.

      #include <quotes/franklin/ben/freedomForSecurity>

      --
      "The last thing I want to do is deal with a bunch of people who want something."
      Major Major
    4. Re:(Flamebait ;) by peterpressure · · Score: 1

      whew, good thing slashdotters don't vote...
      there seems to be a popular misconception on /. that democrats = better than republican...
      Lets please not forget both parties suck and Democrats have the honor of having the only Elected President EVER to be impeached... go 3rd parties!

    5. Re:(Flamebait ;) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, to be 18 and full of idealism again... Since you prefer to deal in either-or oversimplifications, let me help you out:

      Either we deal with radical Islam now, or we are overrun later. Either we start caring about our own survival, or we will be exterminated by a barbarian horde.

    6. Re:(Flamebait ;) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! let's nuke all those camel jockeys now!! die motherfuckers, die motherfuckers, die.

    7. Re:(Flamebait ;) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both parties do suck but there are different levels of suck in the world, for example your day could suck if you got fired but it would suck a lot more if you got raped repeatedly in a prison cell. Determining the lesser of two sucky things can make all the difference in the world. And since we are talking about political parties electing a 3rd party is no path to avoid suckyness since they could have the potential to suck much more than the parties we have today. Politics is all about grubbing for power and grubbing for power brings out teh suck in everyone regardless of party, the trick is to find the one that sucks least.

  13. motivation, not technology by SuperBanana · · Score: 1

    working in vain to outmaneuver not just the terrorists, but the surging global market for technological innovation in which those terrorists thrive.

    Terrorists (or guerilla/civil war soldiers, or the new PC "no, Iraq isn't in civil war" term: "insurgents") don't thrive in a "surging global market for technological innovation"; they thrive when something polarizes/motivates people enough to dedicate their lives to killing other people or support those who will. Like a world superpower engaging in preemptive foreign policy. Just think back to how the US itself formed; we got tired of England telling us what to do and taxing us.

    We wouldn't have to spend a dime on "fighting terrorism" if we simply minded our own damn business.

    Yesterday, the Big Sloshed Cheese gave a speech about how we're at war, we didn't choose this war (bullshit, we started it all) and it's either or us or THEM. Don't believe the polarizing kool-aide, people.

    1. Re:motivation, not technology by bendodge · · Score: 0

      Uh, Muslims are ordered by their holy book to kill ALL infidels who refuse to serve Allah. They are dedicated enough to knock down the World Trade Center. What will it take to wake people up?

      --
      The government can't save you.
    2. Re:motivation, not technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uuh? they arent ordered by anything. it started when the us of a entered saudi arabia and propped up all those governments in the mid east. how bout the us of a wakes up and minds its own godamn business ? and btw, stop funding israel.

    3. Re:motivation, not technology by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Muslims are ordered by their holy book to kill ALL infidels who refuse to serve Allah
      I do remember a passage that stated basic that infadels don't counnt as people because they are all going to hell, but infadels refers to non-believers in God so the Jews and Christians aren't infadels under Islam, they believe in God, the same God as the muslim does.

      That's why I find it ironic that the biggest bible-thumping president I can remember is so hated by the Muslims and our country in the midst of a religious-revival and is being targeted as a nest of infadels!

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    4. Re:motivation, not technology by bendodge · · Score: 0

      It is not the same God. Yahweh and Allah are very different in nature. But if they think they are, it is ironic.

      --
      The government can't save you.
  14. What's the goal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    If you assume the goal is to actually defend the US, perhaps there is some way to help. But that isn't really the goal. The real goal is to make lots of money for big corporations and the people controlling them. Being more efficient or cost-effective goes against those goals.

  15. A dinosaur? by The+Dalex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of the major problems with our government is that was designed to be slow-moving in order to keep it stable. Unfortunately, that attitude has leaked into the smallest corners of government agencies over time, and it has become a major problem when we deal with issues or situations that require rapid response or immediate change of policy. Of course, that describes most issues and situations in these modern times, and we are all suffering as our country loses its edge.

    1. Re:A dinosaur? by Magada · · Score: 1

      One of the major features of your government is that it was designed to move incredibly slowly, having to overcome significant internal friction (aka checks and balances). Were it not so, your last shreds of freedom would have been taken away for good at the onset of WW2 (that almost happened anyway). Can you imagine the reaction of the American public to a WW2-magnitude clusterfsck happening today? Can you imagine the subsequent political shift? Fascism would pale in comparison.

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
  16. Prevent versus Correct by carvalhao · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Being an European and, therefore, more accostumed to live with terrorism than Americans, I believe that the whole approach is inherently wrong. I find extremely similar to the typical prevent/correct engineering design decision. There has never been a case of success when attempting to control terrorism by developing new methods to fight it. England has failed, Spain has failed, France has failed, Portugal has failed and so on... society is just has too many vulnerabilities for ANY protection plan to work flawlessly. Even if you control every airport, bridge and nuclear weapon, a terrorist will still easily access you water supply (you can control water quality easily on depots... try the same on the piping), use a needle to insert poison randomly into supermarket goods, get an Ebola infection and then walk around a crowded stadium... The ONLY way to avoid terrorism is to prevent it. And the way you do that is you find the reason that moves the terrorists in the first place and find a way to remove internal popular support for that sort of action. The Spanish government gave extended autonomy to Euskadia, England negotiated peace. If you want to END terrorism, stop messing with other nation's internal political activity. America gave Noriega a country, Noriega behaves badly, America takes down Noriega. America gave the taliban a country to face the USSR, the taliban behaves badly, America takes down the taliban. America gave Hussein a country to face the USSR in Iran, Hussein behaves badly, America takes down Hussein. America gave Pahlavi a country to get Iranian oil, Pahlavi behaves badly and Ayatollah get a country, what next?! Get the pattern?

    1. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The ONLY way to avoid terrorism is to prevent it. And the way you do that is you find the reason that moves the terrorists in the first place and find a way to remove internal popular support for that sort of action.

      Of course, to take another page from even older European history, there's another way to deal with terrorism, and that's the way the Romans dealt with their enemies. When Carthage become a real thorn in Rome's side, they attacked, killed most of the people in the city, sold the rest into slavery, destroyed the city, salted their fields, etc. Utter annihilation. They weren't too kind when their gladiators revolted either, crucifying them all along the main road.

      Not that I'm advocating such a course of action, but it is another viable method of dealing with enemies. In fact, I think that this method, and your method, are the only viable ways of dealing with terrorism. The current methods certainly aren't working. If we're not willing to take things to that extent I described, I think we have to do something along the lines of your examples.

    2. Re:Prevent versus Correct by juan2074 · · Score: 1

      Let's just nuke everyone, and let the survivors figure it out, right?

      Collective punishment of a whole group of people (including innocent ones who happen to be in the same place) might get rid of your enemies. On the other hand, it might also breed even more enemies.

      And Romans certainly never destroyed all their enemies.

    3. Re:Prevent versus Correct by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Vietnam is also another case of political meddling.
      At the end of WWII, the french didnt want (or couldnt have) their colonies (including vietnam) back.
      So, we ended up with a communist government in the north and a democratic government (heavily backed by the allied powers) in the south. Then, the north decided to annex the south and when the democratic government couldnt survive, we end up with a full scale war that no-one except the polititans really wanted and that the communists won anyway (after the loss of a lot of allied lives)

    4. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Knara · · Score: 1

      Yeah but by the time Rome salted Carthage (third war), Carthage wasn't much of a challenge anymore, nor did anyone important that could cause Rome grief really reside there anymore, insofar as I recall.

    5. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Collective punishment of a whole group of people (including innocent ones who happen to be in the same place) might get rid of your enemies. On the other hand, it might also breed even more enemies.

      Perhaps, but if you wipe out so many people that there aren't many left, the only new enemies would be any survivors (which there wouldn't be many of), or people in other unrelated groups. And after seeing how brutally the first group was dealt with, the other groups of people would think twice about messing with them.

      Of course, whether it's moral at all to treat people (especially innocents) this brutally is an important point, and most societies these days aren't like they were 2000 years ago. Most people in today's democratic societies probably would be completely against this type of response to external threats. My point is that I think there's only two responses to these threats that will really work in the long run: either extreme brutality, or isolation ("leave them alone") like what the OP advocated. This in-between stuff where we get involved in their affairs but try to claim we're helping them just doesn't work.

      There are significant and powerful elements of their society that just don't want us involved there at all. This isn't like our own terrorists like the Oklahoma City bomber or the Unabomber, who are very, very small groups of people (usually individuals in fact); these people are numerous and well-organized and armed. Maybe they aren't a majority of the people over there, but they're a significant minority. Us trying to eliminate these people causes collateral damage which pisses off everyone else. The bottom line is: any society needs to deal with its bad elements by itself. We don't ask other countries to help us deal with our own criminals and terrorists. And if a society isn't willing to properly deal with its bad elements, then that society needs to suffer at the hands of its bad elements: if you aren't willing to help yourself, then no one else should help you either.

    6. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but wouldn't you say they set an example? Anyone else daring to challenge Rome would have heard what they did to Carthage.

    7. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Keebler71 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      There has never been a case of success when attempting to control terrorism by developing new methods to fight it. England has failed, Spain has failed, France has failed, Portugal has failed and so on... society is just has too many vulnerabilities for ANY protection plan to work flawlessly. Even if you control every airport, bridge and nuclear weapon, a terrorist will still easily access you water supply (you can control water quality easily on depots... try the same on the piping), use a needle to insert poison randomly into supermarket goods, get an Ebola infection and then walk around a crowded stadium...

      Being an American, I can say that you have pretty much highlighted exactly the "defeatist philosophy" that many Americans have of Europe. I know this is just a stereotype and I'll probably be modded as a troll; you're right that no amount of engineering or processes can make America 100% safe. I guess the difference is that Americans place some value on at least trying to achieve a partial solution - even when faced with certain failure. I like to think that is the same endearing quality that got us to the moon.

      --
      "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
    8. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Keebler71 · · Score: 1
      There has never been a case of success when attempting to control terrorism by developing new methods to fight it.

      I think that El Al Airlines comes pretty close if not contradicting this statement outright.

      --
      "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
    9. Re:Prevent versus Correct by budgenator · · Score: 1

      So your saying we need a Dracula? I think that would be overkill, but it would be satisfing to see some of the more heinious terrorist drawn and quarterd in the old english style, not much you can do with 72 virgins when you've been publicly castrated! Realisticaly we can just wait them out, when the oil runs out, the arab countries implode.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    10. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Realisticaly we can just wait them out, when the oil runs out, the arab countries implode.

      That's not true. We can't wait them out because we're completely addicted to the oil supply. Maybe if we had some decent leadership that got us off the crackpipe (oil), made some real progress in moving us to alternative energy sources that we can generate domestically, and if we had a populace that actually was interested in these things instead of voting the same losers into office time after time, then your suggestion would be viable.

    11. Re:Prevent versus Correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ONLY way to avoid terrorism is to prevent it. And the way you do that is you find the reason that moves the terrorists in the first place and find a way to remove internal popular support for that sort of action.

      In the US we are more accustomed to terrorism than you may think. And what you're saying makes no sense. Nobody lets their national policy be decided by a bunch of violent nutcases. Even if you wanted to, it's not even possible to anticipate what they want, and their goals are likely to be contradictory.

      Should we have outlawed gay sex in order to make Eric Rudolph stop bombing people?

      Should we have tried to stop the industrial revolution so that the Unabomber would be happy and mind his own business?

      During the siege of the Branch Davidians near Waco, was there even any way that the US government could have anticipated that its actions would later motivate Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols to blow up a building and kill over a hundred people?

      In Northern Ireland during the 1970s-1990s, there have been paramilitary groups on both sides carrying out terrorist acts. If the UK had tried to please the IRA by doing what they asked, then the loyalists would surely have ramped up their own activities.

      There are also out-and-out revolutionaries like the Red Brigades. Should we end our democratic systems of government to please them?

      The US withdrew its peacekeeping forces from Lebanon after the bombings in Beirut. In retrospect, it was a serious mistake. In his fatwas of 1996 and 1998, Osama Bin Laden stresses not only the grievances he had against the US presence in the Middle East, but also the effectiveness of terrorism in getting the US to withdraw from Lebanon and Somalia.

  17. but that's not the point by oohshiny · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article makes the implicit assumption that the purpose of "homeland security" is actually to reduce our risk of getting injured or killed, but that is evidently not its purpose; it's trivial to see that we could save far more lives per dollar spent by improving traffic safety and preventive health care and just maintain pre-9/11 security. Even if the rate of terrorist attacks ended up being several per year, we'd still be saving far more lives that way.

    So, if the purpose of "homeland security" is not actually to save lives, what is it? It's fairly simple: to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt in the population in order to induce them to vote for certain politicians. After all, what better way to induce FUD in people than to humiliate them when they travel anywhere in the name of security and remind them constantly that they could be blown up at any minute? 9/11 and the terrorist scare was godsent for an administration that had no direction, no plan, no leadership, and no clue. I don't want to suggest that this is a carefully planned strategy of the administration, but when 9/11 happened, Bush had found his calling--raving against the "axis of evil" and terrorists simply doesn't require much intelligence or strategy. Of course, a secondary purpose of "homeland security" is that it's a great pretext to funnel taxpayer money from the government to just those "big, ponderous" companies the article is criticizing.

    So, arguing about whether homeland security is well-implemented is pointless if the purpose of homeland security is to be "big, ponderous" and wasteful in the first place.

    What people should be talking about is what the point of homeland security as-we-know-it is in the first place. There were doubtlessly some straightforward and overdue changes to airline security that should have been implemented after 9/11, but two wars, hundreds of billions of dollars, and a dismantling of our constitutional rights are going to far.

    1. Re:but that's not the point by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Especially since the most effective anti-terrorist technique is to infiltrate the terrorists, which is cheap and doesn't compromise the rights of the innocent.

  18. Upside down by itschy · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one to read terrorists = free market, US-Gov = centralistic ?
    Makes you wonder even more...

    1. Re:Upside down by peterpressure · · Score: 1

      Terrorists = free market?
      Is this a joke?

  19. Reminds me of the Zenith Angle by jbdaem · · Score: 1

    As I was reading this article i was reminded of a novel here & here , that Bruce Sterling wrote back in 2004. The story is set right after 9/11, and stars Derek "Van" Vandeveer, an aging dot bomber who does internet security. He is hired by the government to create new computing power for the government. What popped into my mind though was something that I think the government really needs to learn, and was told to Vandeveer by his cranky, crackpot grandfather who also did work for the government, on the SR71 Blackbird, as well as other black budget projects. The grandpa says to act fast, and work in small groups; the effectiveness of this method is seen in this story, and could be seen as a possibility for future government projects.
    I think that the government would be well off to invest more time and money into smaller, more off the wall brainstorming sessions with the thinkers that are far outside the normal trains of thought. We just might find ourselves a bit safer.

    1. Re:Reminds me of the Zenith Angle by xanalogical · · Score: 1

      > I think that the government would be well off to invest more time and money into smaller,
      > more off the wall brainstorming sessions with the thinkers that are far outside the
      > normal trains of thought. We just might find ourselves a bit safer.

      But many of those creative, out-of-the-box thinkers don't _want_ to work for an oppressive government helping them to enslave their populace. They'd be cutting their own throat. An oppressive government in the long run tends to eliminate free thinkers, so why would those people who can think flexibly work to protect it? Other than money, which often those thinkers don't consider as a primary factor when choosing where to work.

      The enemy is not some rag tag group in a 3rd world country, but our own government who seeks to eliminate our freedoms.

  20. Technology doesn't defeat terrorists by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    You defeat terrorists through intelligence and ideology.

    --
    Deleted
  21. Breaking news: by bunions · · Score: 1

    Small companies more efficient than large bureaucracies! Further shocking news as events warrant!

    Seriously, though, how is this surprising? Small companies, by their nature, are more able to come up with good solutions to a narrowly defined problem, such as 'build a nuke detector falling within these parameters,' this should surprise no one.

    However, you still need someone to oversee this host of small companies. Privatizing any large-scale project (such as 'homeland security') into a host of tiny companies is inviting all kinds of intractable integration issues, waste and outright fraud. There's a reason the government is the way it is - the bureacracy exists to minimize these problems. It's not perfect, obviously, but it mostly works.

    It's always tempting to say "you know, this is broken, let's start fresh with a whole new way of doing things," but it often leads to simply trading one set of problems for another.

    --
    there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
  22. A lot to learn, maybe by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful
    U.S. has a lot to learn from small companies.


    I can't disagree with this. There is much that is useful in the experience, culture and skill sets of small companies.

    However, I would caution about overstating what those companies bring to the table, or underestimating the degree to which government is already tapping that resource.

    I've worked with government agencies and personnel. They run the gamut of professionalism, dedication and intelligence just like the private sector does. But even the best of them are hampered in doing new, creative things by this simple fact: government is huge. Not only is it huge, it is composed of constitutionally separate and independent layers (federal, state, local).

    It's not that nothing new gets done. In fact, if anything, there may be too much creativity, and not enough coherence. For example, the kind of whizzy-bangy stuff TFA talks about is commonly funded by SBIRs: Small Business Innovative Research grants. The SBIR program is a great boon to small businesses, to be sure, but it is like a black box into which money is pourted and from which few useful, although many interesting results come out.

    All kinds of great research gets done under these programs, but somehow it never amounts to an effective coordinated response. And since terrorism is by its nature opportunistic, it doesn't matter how exceedingly well you respond to any single technological challenge. You need big picture strategy.

    This is a big difference with a tech startup, which only has to solve one technological problem better than the competitors to make its fortune.

    The problem that plagues government are the things that everyone agrees need to be done, but whose organizational complexities are impossible to navigate. Do you think that FEMA bureaucrats don't want Katrina victims to get the money which has been allocated to them? The problem is the reorganization that sucked them into DHS, while billed as making response more agile, did the worst possible thing: it buried them inside a much larger agency.

    Bureaucracies are, as an organizaional structure, designed to do repetitive execution of routine tasks. All the Kafkaesque aspects of them we hate result from them encountering situations that are outside their assigned tasks, not covered by policy, or all too common made worse by policies. That's what's holding up Katrina relief. Policies are in place that are conceived around a zero tolerance for waste and fraud (as if this was achievable), and values the smallest increment in that direction greater than any level of increment of humanitarian relief.

    The critical missing factor is at the political level. Believe it or not there's a lot of talent, passion and dedication in government, but below the political level those people can't change policy. The political level can change policy, as well as create an environment where common sense bending of rules to meet the greater goals is tolerated. If the political level is brain dead, then each organ of government will continue to do its routine homestatic functions, but won't be part of a purposeful response to new challenges.

    If government fails to respond to a big challenge, it isn't because it doesn't tap private sector expertise. Nor is it because it lacks people with talent and dedication. It's because the people we elect don't care enough about the problem to make things happen.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  23. Small firms, security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a small firm the managers do more of their best to make the company grow. Later on, as the company grows and becomes more stable, they tend to care less about growth and more about stability.

    However, small companies (=95% of the cases young companies) can not guarantee the same quality as ones with lots of experience. Small companies usually have not-so-experienced managers, not-so-experienced system architects and programmers. Which small (=young) company could write such a reliable code as Siemens does (several years of development, several years of testing, 20 years warranty)? A firm's project background (as a new employee's) is a good starting point for a reliable code.

  24. Should Do Vs. Can Do by edward.virtually@pob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What they should do is refuse to assist in improving computer automated wiretapping and data traffic snooping, [and] massive government data mining operations. That the methods "Homeland Security" uses to violate our rights) are currently ponderous, expensive technologies designed by government-funded teams is a good thing for the safety of our democracy.

    The borg: "You will assist us."
    Hue: "I will not assist you."

  25. well.. by jspectre · · Score: 1

    i'll tell you what they can't do, and that's screw it up any more than it already is...

    --

    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

  26. "Small, agile firms" , uh, like Lockheed-Martin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:
    "Contrast the Sandia group's work to the high-dollar nuclear detectors described in the same article, detectors designed by big defense labs under government contract:"

    Hate to break it to this guy, but Sandia is not one of those "small agile development firms".

    From Sandia's web site:
    "Sandia is a government-owned/contractor operated (GOCO) facility. Sandia Corporation, a Lockheed Martin company, manages Sandia for the U.S. Department of Energy's National Nuclear Security Administration."

    BTW, Sandia has 8,500 employees.

    Now what was that he was saying about "big defense labs under government contract"?

  27. The lesson for this thread... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is that although it's difficult to spell, the correct spelling is bureaucracy. Look at it in two pieces "bureau cracy" and it's easier.

  28. Radscan every container. by twitter · · Score: 1

    How about looking at every cargo container at every port before it goes to sea and before it's brought ashore? After all, by the time the bomb gets where it's going it's too late. Brilliant. Yes, an array of NaI detectors costs a lot more than a crummy little 1x1 crystal but the proximity gives directional information that really deals with background and false positives. Yes, competent people are working on the problem and solutions are on the way. No, the world never will be safe.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  29. auto-dismisal of PHB in USGOV HR software by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

    The removal of incompetent Pointy Haired Bureaucrats (sorry for the redundancy) would be of immense benefit. Major select selection criteria would be:
    1) running a Windows operating system
    2) recommending any MS application in a security sensitive enviroment

    --
    There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
  30. SBIR Program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The government already does this. It is called the Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) program. About 2-5% of all research budget goes to that fund. A few billion dollars atleast a year. NSF, DARPA, DOD, NIST, Department of transportation, Department of Energy are some of the govt orgnizations that have the program. Link to an accumulation of all SBIR programs www.sbirworld.com

  31. That's an important question by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But on the other hand, who's easier to infiltrate, a 10,000-person Beltway Bandit or a startup where everybody knows everybody else?

  32. What we can all do for Homeland Security: by sam991 · · Score: 1

    Bend over and grab our ankles.

    --
    "No, no, no, don't tug on that! You never know what it might be attached to."
  33. Dell by __aahlyu4518 · · Score: 1

    What always cracks me up when I order hardware with Dell (others probably have the same thing), is the agreement that you will not use the hardware for doing stuff with weapons of mass destruction, or something like that. Like someone who is up to no good with it will sit behind his pc... ordering a Dell server... arrives at the page with the agreement.. and goes 'DAMN' and goes buy his hardware somewhere else... It's all fake security, like most anti-terrorism measures.
    However... maybe Saddam always ordered Dell and therefor they never found any WOMD !!

    1. Re:Dell by belmolis · · Score: 1

      The security clearance process seems to be equally weird. Some of it makes sense. They try to rule out people with a history of drug problems, gambling, and so forth that would make them vulnerable to to being bought by a foreign power. They also try to make sure you are who you say you are in order to eliminate deep-cover moles. That makes sense to an extent, though it was probably more important during the Cold War than now. But other aspects seem to be just nuts. For instance, you can't get a security clearance if you are a dual citizen. Okay, having another citizenship does indicate some potentially conflicting loyalties, but lots of people without dual citizenship have them too, and you'd think it would matter what the other country was. But the really crazy thing is, you can eliminate the problem if you give up your other citizenship. If someone was really an enemy agent, surely he would either conceal the existence of the other citizenship in the first place or give it up.

  34. yeah, sandia a model of non-gov entrepreneurship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sandia Labs is a huge government-sponsored lab. Some of those tax dollars go to Sandia's expert P.R. machine, which is very slick and no doubt had a hand in promoting the story about their "DIY detector". Their device might be just fine, but how does that make them an example of small business entrepreneurship harnessing market forces? That's just stupid on the face of it.

  35. Who's.. by ernstp · · Score: 1

    Who's homeland?

  36. As Albert Einstein said... by Nick+Driver · · Score: 1

    "Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal."

    and

    "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."

  37. How is DHS like software vendors? by plopez · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They promise you everything, deliver vapourware and screw up over in the process.

    HTH

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  38. Re:Not the right approach MOD PARENT DOWN by E++99 · · Score: 1

    Right... if only we hadn't kept military stationed in Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda wouldn't have attacked us! Well maybe if we pulled out of Saudi Arabia, and also Germany and Japan, which we are bound by law to protect, maybe then? Well, maybe if we then denounced Israel and called for their destruction? Ok, well if we nuked Isreal, and passed a law requiring universal conversion of Americans to Islam. Ok, then we'd be in even more trouble... make that universal conversion to SUNNI Islam. I think that should do it. Of course then Iran would nuke us and we'd all be dead, so we wouldn't have to worry about it. Try not to be a complete appeasing idiot.

  39. Homeland Insecurity - Exxon by __aaykqx8915 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What can SV do for HS? Probably not much. Unless HS is serious about stopping terrorists which it appears they aren't: http://www.gregpalast.com/palast-charged-with-jour nalism-in-the-first-degree#more-1487 Boy I feel so much safer now that Exxon can call the department of Homeland Insecurity and have journalists arrested. Detective Pananepinto confirmed that, "Louisiana is still part of the United States," subject to the first amendment and he was therefore required to divulge my accuser. Not surprisingly, it was Exxon Corporation, one of a handful of companies not in love with my investigations: http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=269 What a wonderful way to protect us from terrorists. Round up all the journalists at the behest of big corporations. Of course they won't do anything about the thousands of people walking into the USA over the open border with Mexico because no muslim terrorist would ever think of doing that. They are too busy eating pork, drinking booze, paying prostitutes for services and going to strip clubs when they aren't flunking flying lessons.

  40. Why not... by Simply+Curious · · Score: 1

    Instead of handing out government contracts to big companies for every little job, why not put out a list of requirements along with the amount that will be paid after the project is completed. If it's a small job, this would make more sense than the whole business with awarding contracts. (I'm not saying that we should do this with all of the bigger jobs, (i.e. fighter planes, buildings) but the smaller jobs that are possible for a small company to do.)

  41. Ceterum censeo... by nephridium · · Score: 1

    Yes, when Scipio got the permission to destroy the Carthaginians it was more like a merciless slaughter than a battle. The reason he called for it was that Hannibal, who caused the Romans so much trouble saw the horrors of the first punic war when he was a child. This drove his will for revenge - the same thing we see in any country that was forcefully conquered, people don't forget so easily and unless you are willing to kill indiscriminately there will be an uprising against the occupier. Alexander's empire fell apart, the Mongol empire fell apart, the Soviet Union fell apart - in each of these cases this was a major element; people don't like to be told what to do by a foreign power.

    The thing with annihilation is that it can only be employed if 1) you can shun your populace from the horrific acts your army performs (or have a populace that's indifferent towards killing others) and 2) you won't be needing those people for your own gain. This approach worked with the Carthaginians and the Romans as well as the Indians and the Americans.

    "Modern" wars no longer offer this option. That's because they are waged not to gain territory, but to gain control - usually over ressources such as oil. To reap the profits of your military conquest you will have to keep the country's infrastructure to a certain degree intact. Things like pipelines and roads can easily be rebuilt. Workforce on the other hand (i.e. the locals you killed) can not be rebuilt within weeks.

    Oh yes - and there is the ethical issue of genocide: evil begets evil. This is why Jesus turns the other cheek. If my people kill unscrupulously, why would other people hesitate to act the same way towards us? In addition, a loss of these ethical values will accelerate the downfall of society.

    --


    And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
    1. Re:Ceterum censeo... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Your analysis is quite good, and I agree about the eventual effects of genocide. That's why I think the best solution as long as we wish to avoid the genocide route is to just stay out of other countries' business. Getting involved with people in other countries who have bad leadership is like getting involved in a domestic dispute with a wife and an abusive husband. She complains, calls the police, and then when the police go to arrest the boyfriend/husband, she freaks out and attacks them. If people want change in their lives, they need to do it themselves, not look for outside assistance.

  42. Rome vs. Carthage != Rome vs. Huns et al. by billstewart · · Score: 1
    Rome vs. Carthage was a pretty classic state-vs-state conflict - they were both similar kinds of organizations, both had similar kinds of goals (territorial domination), similar ideologies ("*We* want to be in charge"), and similar tools (armies and navies funded by taxation on territories and by trade.) It was the kind of conflict that really could be resolved by militarily conquering and killing enemies. It had entirely no resemblence to any of the terrorist conflicts, or like the Cold War or World War II - it was much more like World War I, without the complex alliances and the victorious Western powers couldn't even resolve *that* conflict without setting the stage for a larger and fundamentally more evil follow-up war.


    Rome vs. the Huns/Vandals/Goths/Visigoths/et al. might be a more enlightening comparison. Rome's army was still pretty good at "killing people and breaking things" (a phrase I heard from Rush Limbaugh, but apparently the Army uses it a lot to describe what they do.) But Roman society was decaying, militarism and Empire had replaced the values of the Republic, hiring troublemakers to be police in other locations was getting to be standard policy, the government was run by a succession of decadent rich people and militarists who had to continually provide welfare and entertainment for an increasingly urban population.

    It's certainly not a perfect analogy to today - most of the invader groups didn't particularly have ideologies either, they just liked to take goods and land, and Rome, Gaul, and Germania had better goods, land, and weather than the places they were from. But it's at least as good as your "Rome vs. Carthage" analogy, which was singularly inappropriate here :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  43. What YOU can do for Homeland security! by nephridium · · Score: 1

    Don't know why, but somehow the title reminded me of Starship Troopers.. Here some quotes (I think they are on topic, no? ;)

    "Young people are joining up to fight for the future. They're doing their part - are you? Join the Mobile lnfantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship."

    "Every day, Federal scientists are looking for new ways to kill bugs. - Everyone's doing their part. Are you?"

    Oh yea - and this one on how to eliminate bugs:
    "Hey, shoot a nuke down a bug hole, you got a lot of dead bugs."

    --


    And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
  44. Prevention doesn't further Bush's Goals by billstewart · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    Bush's goals are domestic and international power, and preventing terrorism in the ways you describe are absolutely Not With The Program. Bush, Cheney, his core neocon advisors want a strong government with unlimited domestic powers and a strong military projecting power around the world, regardless of the cost to the US economy. If you don't have enemies, you don't need to have a strong government protecting the public from them, and enemies like big hurricanes and global warming are simply *not* an adequate replacement for Communism. Hussein's been extremely valuable for the enemy-centric foreign policies - we got to spend a lot of money helping him in the fight against Iran, and then Bush's father got to have a big war that he didn't finish, and hand it to Clinton (along with Yugoslavia and Somalia) to make sure Clinton didn't de-emphasize the military, and Bush got to pick it up again for reasons entirely unrelated to terrorism.


    There's a theory of government called the "Unitary Executive" that a lot of them like, where the military and civilian power are controlled by a strong leader and supported by Congress, as opposed to the model where the Parliament tells the civil service and military what to do and the courts limit the scope of their actions, and many of Bush's supporters stronly believe in that. American used to have a governmental system like that; we dumped it in 1776 and the following years of the revolution, though the executive branch got some of its power back with the current Constitution adopted in 1787-1789.


    The Bush administration may not be very competent, but one thing they've been extremely good at is managing their Message, staying strongly focused on whatever political goals they're trying to accomplish. The two big failures that are hurting them right now are Hurricane Katrina and Abu Ghraib, the first because it was extremely obvious that The Strong Leader was totally incompetent at protecting the Homeland, which is what you *want* a strong leader for, and the second because it was so appallingly over-the-top wrong that even Bush's right-wing supporters couldn't support it (plus the sexual element annoyed his religious supporters.) Cindy Sheehan was a big problem for a long time, because she represented an archetypal Mother whose child had not been protected by Stong Father Leader, and because Bush absolutely would not take Responsibility for it. He's probably successfully outlasted her; she got far more than her 15 minutes of fame.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  45. Re:"Small, agile firms" , uh, like Lockheed-Martin by budgenator · · Score: 1

    It's been a couple days since I read the article about the Scandia guys, but if memory serves me correctly, the impression was the guy built it on his own rather than as some "officialy" sanctioned project. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the parts he used weren't "liberated" from one of the "junk" piles over at scandia, some of the coolest shit i've ever seen were in some junk piles over at the Marshal Space Flight Center, NASA junk piles are a geek treasure troves.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  46. The flaw in this analysis... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is to assume the government has any interest in making things more secure. Their only interest is creating a perception of increased security, as a cover for the latest pork barrel.

  47. Let The Insurance Companies Handle It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Terrorism shouldn't be the main concern of government. Sure they should handle federal law enforcement, immigration and investigations, but on a much smaller scale than they (pretend to do) today. We should restore DHS manning to pre-9/11 levels.

    Insurance companies, who are masters at estimating and handling risk, can write the necessary "terrorism" clauses into insurance policies, spreading risk appropriately. If you want terrorism clause, you can pay for it. If you don't, you can keep your money and take the (vanishingly small) risk.

    Europe has dealt successfully with terrorism for more than 40 years. We should emulate their model. To do otherwise is a tremendous waste of money, personnel and time better spent elsewhere.

    IOW the "War on Terror" is at bottom an utterly wrong-headed approach.

  48. I'm inside the Fed and this is what I see by ayelvington · · Score: 1

    I see a ton of untested technology claiming to solve world hunger. I see a bunch of salespeople pushing something with no support tail. I see a federal procurement process that requires, REQUIRES, competition to save the taxpayer money. I see technology evolving faster than i can deploy and train people to use it. I see terrorists using technology that they only need to work once. I need technology that I need to never fail. I see terrorists that only need to get one bomb into one place once. I see a federal system that has to get thousands of reliable devices into thousands of places that can be operated by well-intentioned high school graduates. If you want to help, donate your patents and let us open source and compete your products. Better yet, go to FEDBIZ http://www.fedmarket.com/bidProducts/fbn/ and look at what we are looking for.

  49. Senator Cunningham??? by calidoscope · · Score: 1

    Don't you mean ex-representative Cunningham?

    --
    A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
  50. Re:"Small, agile firms" , uh, like Lockheed-Martin by calidoscope · · Score: 1
    If anything would be "liberated" it would be the PMT and associated electronics - the NaI crystal was a special from Saint Gobain, only thing unique was its size (presumably to give better energy resolution) and it sounds like he was using an off-the-shelf nuclide detection/identification software package.


    What caused my eyebrows to shoot up was the claim that he could pick up gammas from uranium at one mile and also in the presence of shielding. Three problems with that assertion, one is that a mile of air at sea level isroughly equivalent to 3 feet of concrete, two the 1/r**2 fall-off in intensity is HUGE at 1 mile and three, uranium doesn't have much of a gamma line that stands out (only thing I could find that put out high energy gammas was the 234Pa decay product of 238U).

    --
    A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
  51. Doing business with Uncle Sam by msh317 · · Score: 1

    This country is loaded with solutions - from database systems that actually work, to communications that would empower first responders to actually be able to communicate with each other during an emergency. Doing business with Uncle Sam however is a challenge than no successful small business has every found a solution for - the red tape and big dogs that feed off the inability of the government to actually make a good decision make the process unworkable. Until the political system actually empowers GSA to bypass its own red tape the system will remain broke - and these great solutions will continue to only benefit the private sector.

    --
    Mark Hewitt mark(at)mark-hewitt.com
  52. Re:"Small, agile firms" , uh, like Lockheed-Martin by budgenator · · Score: 1

    a mile of air at sea level isroughly equivalent to 3 feet of concrete
    Interesting, I would guess that's why underground nuclear detonations are so disapointing, they can't vaporize and superheat enough rock if a 1 mile air fireball is equivelent to a 3 foot rock fireball!

    The other thing is these gov types are perfectly happy to let us believe things that aren't actualy true when it suits their porposes. I live in the city that has the country's fourth busiest boarder crossing and when I had my thallium stress test, the sign in the doctor's office said to expect delays when crossing the border for 4 days, due to the radiation being detected by customs! I think it's pretty obvious that we're better at detecting radiation at the border than the government is letting on.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  53. Re:"Small, agile firms" , uh, like Lockheed-Martin by calidoscope · · Score: 1
    Thallium stress test?? My stress tests involved the use of Technetium - which has a line in the same energy range as 235U and I did get a caution from my doctor about crossing the border (busiest one in the world is 30 miles south of here).


    The Canadians were installing radiation detectors back in the 90's to detect smuggled cigarrettes - tobacco has a high concentration of potassium.

    --
    A Shadeless room is a brighter room.