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Pro-DRM Law May Be Coming To Australia

paxmaniac writes, "The Sydney Morning Herald reports that the Australian Federal Government will soon introduce laws making it illegal to circumvent copy control 'technological prevention measures' (or TPMs). The laws will make it illegal to modchip a console, to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region, to install DVD decoders on your PC, or to circumvent DRM in any other way. From the article: 'Anyone found to have used technology to circumvent copy control TPMs will face fines of up to $6600, while those guilty of distributing enabling devices and services to others through a variety of means face imprisonment for up to five years and possible fines of $60,500.' Australia is obliged to introduce these laws as part of it's Free Trade Agreement with the USA. Gee thanks, George!"

53 of 274 comments (clear)

  1. FTA by starnix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it just me or is the US using that fucking thing to basically pass laws in other countries? The Frog is coming to a boil.

    1. Re:FTA by Raistlin77 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You act like this is something new...

    2. Re:FTA by Raistlin77 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not ashamed to be American, but I am pissed off at the other idiot Americans that allow crap like this to occur.

    3. Re:FTA by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. It just disgusts me. I am ashamed to be an American.
      I hate to be the "love it or leave it" type, but why would you be ashamed of something you are free to change? I understand China is pretty lax about DRM stuff and Canada is nice this time of year.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    4. Re:FTA by russotto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When it was passed in the US we were told it was required for harmonization with Europe.

    5. Re:FTA by LaughingCoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remember, everyone doesn't vote. This would be a nice theory except for the fact that there is a high correlation between the level of education and the likelihood of voting (the more educated, the more likely you're a voter). So that actually means Bush got roughly 50% of the most educated voters. Quite the opposite of what your are implying. I also suspect, though I can't prove it, that there is also a high correlation showing that the less educated a voter, the more likely they vote for Democrats. This is why the Democrats are always trying to "get out the vote".

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    6. Re:FTA by Zenaku · · Score: 5, Insightful
      And it was bull, then too. The US didn't pass it to protect free trade with the EU, and Australia didn't pass it to protect free-trade with the US.

      Both passed it as a big wet blowjob for corporate interests, in the hopes that they'd leave a fifty on the nightstand.

      So just handle these laws the way we do in the US. Speak up against them, fight them in court, and vote out anyone who supports them. And since none of that will actually make a spec of difference, ignore them.

      --
      If fate makes you a motorcycle, you become a motorcycle.
    7. Re:FTA by sanoBabun+httpishwo- · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was afraid this day would come! Now what are aussies going to do ? help help!

      --
      -- sig
    8. Re:FTA by rajafarian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is it just me or is the US using that fucking thing to basically pass laws in other countries? The Frog is coming to a boil.

      Dude, didn't you read the earlier Spamhaus story? We don't even need to pass laws in your country, 'cause we can just enforce ours there. But you know what? We have the world's largest amassment of chemical weapons, biological weapons, conventional bombs, jet fighters, aircraft carriers, Weapons of Mass Destruction in the known Universe... AND we have a credit card with bottomless pit to buy more!

      We also are working on taking over every election in the world, that you may elect leaders more favorable to us; they need not even be electronic since we have money to bribe or guns to kill those that do not cooperate with us.

      We reserve the right to take hostage any person, place, or thing and need not tell or explain to anyone what we did because undoubtedly, they had ties to terrorists.

      Passing a law in another country is just for show, to make things easier for us so we don't have to do those things which we can do whether you like it or not.

    9. Re:FTA by 14CharUsername · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is also a high correlation showing the higher the income level the higher the education level. And there's a high correlation between high edcuation level and people knowing that correlation is not causation.

    10. Re:FTA by snottgoblin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the more educated, the more likely you're a voter

      I don't know if you meant that in general or just wrt the US but from where I come(India) most of the educated abstain from voting as they do not like any of the political candidates and consider them to be incompetent. It is the poor and uneducated folks who make up the numbers as they vote based on religious/caste based grounds.

    11. Re:FTA by LaughingCoder · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually I voted for Kerry before I voted against him.

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    12. Re:FTA by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First of all, fuck you for being the 'love it or leave it type'.
      Yeah, I deserved that.

      You don't like listening to people like him, then you can go to China or anywhere else free speech isn't tolerated. Americans are allowed to hate anything about their country that they choose and are allowed to seek change any legal way they want; including by complain on slashdot.
      Which is exactly why the original poster should not be "ashamed to be an American". I tolerate people saying all kinds of bad things about my country and my gov't, some true and some not, but I will not sit by and hear someone claimed to be ashamed of being something they can change. Now if a Cuban were to be ashamed, I'd understand because they are not free to leave, but shame of being an American is not like being ashamed of being white. There are a lot of places where the populace is trapped, but the US is not one of them.

      Secondly, the point of the post is that the US and EU are muscling every nation into these kind of copyright regulations. So, leaving it, is becoming increasingly less of an option.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    13. Re:FTA by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course it's bull, just like the coming "100 year copyright" for harmonization with Mexico will be bull. Here in the US I live in, we speak up against them and are ignored. Those who fight them in court, lose (just ask the EFF. Or bnetd or 2600). If we vote against those who support them, it's for a loser as the candidates with a chance all support the law. The fix is in, and not just in the US and OZ. Our choices are simple; obey, disobey and avoid getting caught, disobey and be bankrupted, or disobey and be jailed.

    14. Re:FTA by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And this is precisely why democracy doesn't work very well in practice. I think America's founders may have had a good idea when they restricted voting to landowners.

    15. Re:FTA by tomjen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And jet all that hardware is useless - you are losing two wars in the middle east (Afghanistan and Iraq) contemplating starting a Third (Iran), while you are spending a fortune on imported goods because the Chineese can make it so much cheaper. No I am not impressed, and if you continue this way the United States (at least its status as a superpower) will be history very, very soon.

      --
      Freedom or George Bush
  2. at least they are honest by tehwebguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "technology prevention" is certainly what DRM does.

    "while those guilty of distributing enabling devices and services to others through a variety of means"

    you mean like.. computers?

    --
    -- lol pwned
  3. Uhh.. by joshetc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    to install DVD decoders on your PC

    What is the point in a DVD-Rom if we can't decode DVDs? On top of that don't we pay the same royalties for the DVD-Roms we buy that DVD player buyers pay?

    to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region

    Even if the manufacturer makes them multi-region?

    The laws will make it illegal to modchip a console

    Isn't modchipping a console sort of like putting a turbo on your car? So making MY PURCHASED PRODUCT better is against the law?

    1. Re:Uhh.. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. Just because it is possible or makes sense doesn't mean it's legal. The DVD-Rom's reason to exist lies in the fact that you can use larger media than CDs to store data. Though, it would shed some new light on the "copyright fee" we pay here for DVD-ROMs (as well as pretty much all the rest we could possibly put into a computer, including mainboards and HDs), and I'd start to question these fees. If I am not allowed to do what I allegedly do, does that mean that by paying this fee I do admit that I'm a criminal?

      2. Manufacturer will be required to discontinue offering region free DVD players. Simple as that.

      3. Yes, making your purchased product better can be illegal. There are movements here to outlaw so called "chip tuning", and turbos (like nitro injectors) are not allowed altogether already.

      Yes, we're getting to the point where the vendor dictates what you may do with the product you buy. I'm really waiting now for a law that outlaws refilling bottles with tap water after you drank the original content.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Uhh.. by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I primarily use my modded XBox for emulating very old systems, and using XBoxMediaCenter. However, without a doubt, the primary use of mod chips is to pirate games. Console manufacturers sell consoles below cost with the idea that they will make the money back on games. When you pirate games, they lose out.

      So the car analogy doesn't work well.

      Honestly, what I would greatly prefer is to meet in the middle. Allow for unsigned code so indie developers, homebrew games, media center apps, emulators and the like can be run on the console, but focus on protecting the games since that is what they're really upset about.

      With the XBox 360, there are ways currently to circumvent the security sectors on the DVDs and make backups, but I still won't buy one. Honestly for me, I'd rather have my media center and emulators than pirated games, but I believe myself to be in the minority.

      However, consoles are inherently proprietary. Things like music and movies are not. Music is meant to be played on any player. I think things like DRM and region encoding on movies and music is plain silly.

      If someone wants to pay extra to import your movie before they get their normal regionalized release, let them! They are good word of mouth advertising. They will tell their friends how much they loved the movie and generate positive buzz before the official release date. And someone buying your movie is still someone buying your movie. And in many cases, a movie is only released in one region. Isn't it rather innane that I can't import and watch Japanese movies on my DVD player? Why lose out on business like that?

      As for music, people said the iTunes and Napster models wouldn't work. No one would pay for music legally when they could pirate it. You know what? Those models are extremely successful. They provide a good, conveinent service, and people are sick of CDs that stop playing, and buying a second or third copy of their favorite CDs. Digital music is awesome, and worth paying money for. Why use DRM? There is no good reason to penalize the people who opted to give the recording industry money, when they could have easily pirated that music.

      I refuse to use services like iTunes, because I will not be told how often I can copy my music, nor be forced to use proprietary software, or select MP3 players. Give me a completely DRM-free music service, and I'll gladly pay for all my music again.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    3. Re:Uhh.. by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There will be a HUGE uproar if they try to ban multi-region DVD players in Australia or Europe. In the US most folks don't care, because nearly everything is released here... But DVD releases in other regions are spotty and MOST DVD players in those regions are multi-region for this reason.

      The market for region 1 DVDs in Europe and such is huge. I don't think they'll go far with this law before a lot of bitching results.

      -Z

    4. Re:Uhh.. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the US most folks don't care, because nearly everything is released here...

      One word: Anime.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Uhh.. by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just because it is possible or makes sense doesn't mean it's legal

      And just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong, or that you should recognize the law.

    6. Re:Uhh.. by professionalfurryele · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have a cunning plan. I'm going to sell pipes to people for transporting water for thier baths, but every time they want to put water through those pipes, I'm going to make them pay me using a meter. And I'm not going to let the modify the meter, or get water from any one else.

      Sound like a dumb idea? It is. If the companies that make games consoles are unhappy because their stupid business model doesn't allow them to sell their console for a sensible price (read for a market driven price) and then sell the games, also for a market driven price, then I have some good old capitalist advice for them. Sod off and die.

      I bought it, I will damn well do what I like with it, and if they don't like it, my advice to them is simple, don't sell it to me in the first place.

    7. Re:Uhh.. by professionalfurryele · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh I know that no one would buy games consoles if they were priced at cost. My point is that if you are going to sell a piece of hardware you cant tell people what they can and cannot do with it. I have no objections to the selling consoles at below cost. But they cant then turn around and complain if someone modifies those consoles.

      However, trying to barstardise property law to protect this business model is totally unacceptable. If I buy something from you, and then do something with it you hadn't intended with it, well thats just tough on you, unless the something unexpected I do directly infringes on your rights.

      If they want us to surrender our property rights when we buy a games console, then make us sign a contract. Don't abuse the country by barstardising property rights. It's about time someone took these corporate overlords and kicked them out of politics. It should be illegal for a limited liability company to expression a political viewpoint or utilise it's property to promote legislation or a political viewpoint.

    8. Re:Uhh.. by grantdh · · Score: 4, Informative

      2. Manufacturer will be required to discontinue offering region free DVD players. Simple as that.

      Which is interesting as, here in Australia, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (an independent government authority for fair competition & trade) ruled that DVD region encoding was anti-competitive a few years back. Since then, all DVD players sold in Australia must be either region free or be sold with instructions on how to unlock them.

      They even went up against SONY about mod-chipping PS2's, saying it was an Australian's right to purchase games overseas and play them on systems here.

      It's always interesting to find a government agency going up against it's own government in the courts over shit like this...

      For more info:
      ACCC comments re: region coding

      ACCC vs SONY on PS2 modchips

      --

      I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down...
  4. Thanks a lot, George? by ziggyzig · · Score: 5, Informative

    How is this GWB's fault? I'm all for criticizing when appropriate (see laundry list of details from Gitmo to secret prisons), but the little parting shot at the end just seems inflammatory.

    FYI - Signed in 1994

    1. Re:Thanks a lot, George? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ummm... that's the NORTH AMERICAN free trade agreement. Last time I checked, Australia is not part of North America. I believe the free trade agreement in question is this one, which came into effect in 2005.

    2. Re:Thanks a lot, George? by Churla · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're obviously new around here... I'd like to welcome you to Slashdot. If you check by the registration page there should be a phamplet with the pre-requisite quick snappy responses such as..

      "I blame Bush"
      "Windows blows"
      "I can't wait for the Wii to come out"

      It's easy once you get in the hang of things.

      As for the article and topic. The question becomes will there be some measure to defeat this legislation before it becomes law there. And is this an effort by Australia to prove it's more media cartel friendly than the US, or just a play by the media cartels to see if they can test the waters there before bringing that same legislation here to the US.

      --
      I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
    3. Re:Thanks a lot, George? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Informative

      You linked to the wrong agreement. The older NAFTA is North American Free Trade Agreement, for Canada, US and Mexico, so it doesn't involve Australia. The New Zealand Australia Free Trade Agreement doesn't involve the US and isn't called that anymore. The agreement is the AUSFTA - Australia US Free Trade Agreement, according to the Australian Government, it was signed in 2006.

      http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us.html

    4. Re:Thanks a lot, George? by syrinx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course it's unnecessary, not to mention incorrect (as you point out with the free trade agreement, plus, our own DMCA was signed in 1998, PLUS the president can't really do much re: laws anyway, since that's congress' job... but if we can get in anti-Bush comments, who cares about facts!). But whoever this new "kdawson" editor is is even worse than the old editors when it comes to selecting stories free of flamebait. I think he specifically seeks out the stories where the submitter added some stupid comment. (And if it's anti-Bush, all the better.) Probably helps keep up the page and ad views.

      Man has Slashdot turned to crap. I usually hate when people post complaining about /. here, but I've been starting to agree with them. I suppose I could go to Digg more often instead, but at least /. sometimes has a reasonably good comments section on some articles. I've yet to see any sort of intelligent life over in the Digg comment section.

      Can't wait for my offtopic mod! Or maybe a troll, or the coveted "overrated". If I'm really lucky, someone will go through my post history and mod other posts down too, which usually happens when I disagree that anything anti-Bush is automatically goodthink.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    5. Re:Thanks a lot, George? by Eccles · · Score: 3, Informative

      How is this GWB's fault?

      'It was not until early 2001, after the election of George W. Bush in the US and with John Howard in power in Australia, that a US-Australia FTA finally began to take shape. In April 2001, President Bush signalled his interest in pursuing an FTA with Australia provided "everything is on the table".'

      [...]

      'the text was finally agreed to in February 2004, and signed off on by Australian Trade Minister Mark Vaile and [Bush appointee] US Trade Representative Robert Zoellick in Washington in May 2004.'

      (Source Wikipedia, but unless you can find something to contradict, I'm going with it.)

      All Congress got to do was ratify the agreement as negotiated.

      Sorry boys, but you most definitely can blame Bush.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
  5. Not that I like him by Kusand · · Score: 4, Informative

    But i sincerely doubt Bush had any direct effect on this law. You might want to start by being mad at Orrin Hatch and working your way through the rest of the U.S. Congress if you're going to complain.

  6. Same old story by cHALiTO · · Score: 2, Interesting

    what.. you seriously thought FTAs were about trade and import barriers?
    They've been trying this on south america for decades. Some countries have aligned themselves with the US (chile, mexico), others refuse to accept such kind of conditions though I don't know for how long they'll be able to resist. International and Internal pressure from investment groups and the like on the governments is huge.

    --
    "Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
  7. DVD de-regioning? by tygerstripes · · Score: 2, Insightful
    to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region

    You mean to say that, were I an Oz resident, I couldn't flash my DVD-drive to enable me to play my perfectly legally imported Region 1 DVDs? As a UK resident, I did exactly this so that I could get the missus a copy of Legend with the original-release Tangerine Dream soundtrack (not available in UK) as opposed to the ridiculous "director's cut" version that pollutes our senses to this day.

    Isn't this just a huge step backwards in the natural global-information-culture progression? I mean, this difficult balance between the rights of consumers and the rights of creators and retailers is getting knocked all over the place with heavy-handed laws.

    Piracy is already illegal, but there are many non-pirating practices that can make use of some of these technologies. Isn't this like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, when the bath was already drained anyway?

    --
    Meta will eat itself
  8. buh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    in other news, australian will have to
    stop doing basic algebra. it will be
    illegal to do following:
    1+1=2.

    you may not have your computer COMPUTE
    certain code (101010010100...) so it can
    do certain(*) tasks.
    sheesh ...

    (*)example: understand/read a DVD from a
    different region.

  9. Recant your infocentric ideas! by w33t · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if some day in the (hopefully not too) far future DRM and similar laws restricting the distribution of information will be looked upon in the same light as we now look upon the Catholic Church's order to Galileo to cease teaching the heretical notion of heliocentrism.

  10. It's about market control by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Believe me, I feel your pain. We only get very badly dubbed versions of movies in bad quality here if we buy a "local" region code DVD.

    But what this is about is market share and control. The distribution cartel has the world divided in certain "sectors", that pretty much correspond with the RCs. And of course, they have to pay fees to the studios according to their presumed revenues.

    Those revenues rely on you being forced to buy with them, though. If someone in, say, Europe could simply buy a DVD from the US (because it's out like a month earlier, mostly due to distribution negotiations taking a few days), the distributor in Europe is losing money. Also he would lose money because, as I said in the first paragraph, the dubbing is most of the time simply outright BAD. And I prefer to listen to it in the original anyway. So what do I do? Right. I buy it a month early in a well made box instead of a dubbed version in cardboard a month later.

    And this is what they want to avoid. Besides, the distri in the US only paid them for the distri rights in the US (and Canada, afaik). Should nobody in Europe pick it up because they didn't think there'd be a market, the Distri in the US would make a killing (and leave the studio ripped off). Also, should it against all odds become a huge seller, they can still sell the rights for distribution in Europe and make money again, because I (here in Europe) couldn't have bought it in the US (because of RC lock).

    It's all about money and market control.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Control laws by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Laws like this, i.e. laws that everyone breaks, are for control. Need a warrant? Let's see, does he have a computer? Great, we got one.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Re:FTA (Softwood Lumber - a lesson) by arthurpaliden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When they do sign it their economy will still be 'fucked' because the US government will not enforce the agreement unless the US benifits. For an example check out the Softwood Lumber dispute between Canada and the US. Canada had to pay the $1 Billion (US), yes one billion dollars, to the the US goverment and their lumber intrests just to get them to drop illigal duties, found illigal by all FTA tribulas, the WTO and the US federal courts. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/softwood_lumber/

  13. Re:Let me just say, on behalf of all Americans, by Twixter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In other news, Australians past a new 'future crimes act' which will make it illegal to purchase video cameras, audio recording devices, or pants that would be too tight if you were to put them on.

    --

    -Todd

    Put down the sig, and step away from the computer.

  14. But it's not a "copy control" mechanism by mengel · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... its a "playback prevention" mechanism. You can copy DVD's, etc. all you want and the mechanism doesn't mind. It will play exact copies of the media just as well as originals, and it makes no difference.

    It just controls where/when you can play a DVD. That is, it is a play control mechanism, not a copy control mechanism.

    So as long as they only outlawed circumventing copy-protection mechanisms, they haven't actually affected DRM. The MPAA rhetoric basically comes back and bites them here -- by lying about what the issue is, they get a law that doesn't actually do what they want.

    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
  15. Re:Should all Be Legal by bigpat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These should all be legal in the confides of your own home. But what should be illegal is you trying to make money and selling your hacks/modchips.

    No.

    As long as there is a legal use for DRM Circumvention, then the devices should be legal to sell.

    We don't throw Xerox sales reps in jail just because their technology could be used to infringe on copyright.

    Copyright law struck a balance between the rights of creators to benefit from their work and the ability of the public to benefit from the work once it was published. And it balances the Freedom of expression rights of both the original creator and those that would make use of the original work in a derivative work. The concept is fair use. Enshrining DRM into law without allowing for reliable ability to make fair use of content throws fair use out the window and undermines the foundation of copyright law. DRM lets the content producer have it both ways and effectively invalidates the time limited provisions of copyright law.

    In the US, prohibitions on DRM circumvention are unconstitutional because they violate Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 which allows congress "to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"

    Anti DRM circumvention laws violate this provision, "securing for limited times", because the legal effect is to allow authors or their delegates to control copying far beyond any expiration of copyright.

    As far as I am aware the most of the challenges so far to the DMCA have focused on peripheral issues. Whereas they should be focusing on the lack of any type sunset provision for legal use of DRM. Congress certainly has the right to allow DRMs use, but if it legally and effectively prohibits copying well beyond the expiration of copyright, then the law is quite clearly unconstitutional as well as unwise.

  16. Probably about the same. by pavon · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I also suspect, though I can't prove it, that there is also a high correlation showing that the less educated a voter, the more likely they vote for Democrats.
    I don't know that that is the case. While the Democrats used to have very strong support with working class people (low income correlates with lower education), this has been decreasing, and is only kinda strong support now. Moderately educated college students are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican, however this is balenced out by the fact that the group of most highly educated people are as well. After the last presidential election, the Democrats liked to point out that the states with the most educated people also had the strongest Democratic support, the opposite of your claim, although this doesn't necissarilly prove that the educated ones were the ones voting Democrat.

    And of course the numbers could come out different depending on if you use mean or median education level, etc. In the end I'd guess that the average education levels of voters is more or less the same for Democrats and Republicans.
    1. Re:Probably about the same. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While the Democrats used to have very strong support with working class people (low income correlates with lower education), this has been decreasing, and is only kinda strong support now.

      The Democrats have been losing support amongst the "working class" because of social issues.

      The Democrats assumed that people only cared about their pockets. They assumed that people would look the other way when the Dems tried to enact social policy that they disagreed with as long as we thought that they were punishing the rich.

      They found out, quite painfully over the past decade that this isn't the case. Between 1994 and 2000 the Democrats lost control of the House, Senate and White House, all because of social issues.

      When I say social issues, I'm talking about abortion, welfare reform, gun control and "gay marriage". Although, not necessarily in that order.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  17. Makes complete sense! by Jugalator · · Score: 2, Funny
    Australia is obliged to introduce these laws as part of it's Free Trade Agreement with the USA. Gee thanks, George!"

    Well, it only makes sense that in order to make free trade, the involved parties should stop their customers from using the purchased goods freely, right?
    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  18. What's the point? by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Remember, everyone doesn't vote.

    What's the point in voting when all the candidates act the same way anyway? People aren't voting because there's are rarely ever any people on the ballot worth getting up to vote for. What's the point if Jack Johnson (R) gets into office instead of John Jackson (D)? They'll both make the same stupid decisions being made in the interests of big business or some special interest group anyway. We're left with is this ridiculous Rebulicrat/Demican waltz that goes on forever.

    The worst part about all this is the sheer number of people who think voting democrat instead of republican or republican instead of democrat will fix anything.

    You want people to vote in this farcical circus we call a democracy? Get the DMV involved and make it a requirement to have voted in the previous election in order to get your driving license renewed, or something equally retarded. The only way to get people to take part in something that's not worth doing is to either change the thing so that it *is* worth doing, or to force them into doing it.

    --
    Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    1. Re:What's the point? by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People don't vote because they are lazy, ignorant, and/or don't care, not because there's nothing worth voting for. There's always something worth voting for that actually does make a difference. You can vote for the lesser of two evils, or an independent, or a local referendum that actually affects you, or in the worst case cast an empty vote to lodge your protest. Even casting an empty ballot is worth doing.

      I think you'll find 99% of the time this is just an excuse to hide a personal fault. Which would you rather tell somebody, that you didn't vote because you were just lazy or because "they're all the same"? Would you rather tell somebody you didn't vote because you were too ignorant to know that the richest school district in the state doesn't actually need extra money on the referendum, or that "one vote won't make a difference". Would you rather tell people that you didn't vote for an 3rd party candidate because you didn't even know what day was election day or because "a vote for a 3rd party is a wasted vote"?

    2. Re:What's the point? by michrech · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People don't vote because they are lazy, ignorant, and/or don't care, not because there's nothing worth voting for. There's always something worth voting for that actually does make a difference. You can vote for the lesser of two evils, or an independent, or a local referendum that actually affects you, or in the worst case cast an empty vote to lodge your protest. Even casting an empty ballot is worth doing.

      In your world, maybe. In my world, voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for "evil". You can wish to vote independent (or whatever other "party") all you want. It won't matter one bit if they aren't even on the ballot.

      Perfect example: Vote for Kerry, who will bumble around in office and flip-flop on everything (and *possibly* have driven us to war, or not...) Or vote for Bush, who wished to "bring society together" by driving a wedge into it (FMA, anyone?). Oh.. He also drove us to war. Directly to war. We did not pass "go", nor did we collect $200 (well, actually, he did give us some money, but he put us even further into debt to do it wich, in my mind, negates having given us the money in the first place).

      I have not voted in some time because all those running for office, for the most part, have been completely opposite of what I look for. I don't just "sit" here, however, and stew about it. I write to them and tell them why I'm not voting (not that I think it'd change anything).

      Our system of government needs changes -- badly. I am just not sure how to go about it.

      --
      bork bork bork!
  19. Why blame George? by SirAnodos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who signed off on the DMCA? This whole mess is on both sides of the isle, and it isn't going to change until we people show the government who they are supposed to be working for. Right now, they think they work for lobbying industries such as RIAA, MPAA, etc.

  20. NAFTA is dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To be even more specific, Canada won every round in every court that mattered, INCLUDING the WTO and the NAFTA arbitration panel (that consists of 2 Americans and 1 Canadian). Unfortunately for our lumber industry, winning in court has no effect on the USA since they have shown they are totally willing to simply ignore the results if they do not fall in their favour. The current conservative government is more concerned with sucking up to the Americans than they are about protecting the interests of Canada, so they are ramming the agreement through, and the industry and provinces are pissed off but reluctantly agreed in order to get some semblance of normalcy back to the market.

    Ultimately, however, I suspect that the lumber situation will mean the end of NAFTA. The conservatives under Harper have demonstrated a distinct lack of backbone when dealing with the USA, so are unlikely to be elected in their current form, and pretty much every other party has declared that they want NAFTA renegotiated. What is the point of having an "arbitration panel" if the USA simply ignores their decisions?

  21. Right... because Bush Started the DMCA. by kinglink · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Blinding blaming Bush for everything our Goverment does gets old after a while. The DMCA was done in 1998, yet Bush has been blamed for that. EUCA (European DMCA) was done based on a trade agreement of 1996 by the WIPO.

    We made a Free trade agreement with Australia that effectively says you must conformed to the decisions of this group. Remember that President Bush didn't write this all himself, he didn't sign this law himself. Australian goverment and our own congress approved this law too, John Kerry was also a huge supporter (supposidly).

    But continue to call on Bush alone as if no one else but him did any of this.

  22. Re:DVD players have multi-region built in. by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I really admire the New Zealand government for consistantly having the backbone to stand up for what is "right" the heavyweight nations. They have a long tradition of doing this whereas Australia has started to get a reputation for folding when the USA starts throwing their economic/military weight around.

      Examples:
      +Anti-Nuclear policy - 1985 refused nuclear powered and armed ships access to their ports


    I agree with everything else you said, but what's wrong with nuclear-powered ships? I can understand not allowing nuclear-armed ships access to your ports, but what's wrong with nuclear

    power

    ? It's clean, safe (no naval accidents I know of except for a Soviet sub (Kursk); the Americans have a perfect record I believe), requires no refueling for 2 decades, and a lot better than burning enormous quantities of fuel oil (or diesel or other fossil fuels) and polluting the ocean air.