Pro-DRM Law May Be Coming To Australia

paxmaniac writes, "The Sydney Morning Herald reports that the Australian Federal Government will soon introduce laws making it illegal to circumvent copy control 'technological prevention measures' (or TPMs). The laws will make it illegal to modchip a console, to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region, to install DVD decoders on your PC, or to circumvent DRM in any other way. From the article: 'Anyone found to have used technology to circumvent copy control TPMs will face fines of up to $6600, while those guilty of distributing enabling devices and services to others through a variety of means face imprisonment for up to five years and possible fines of $60,500.' Australia is obliged to introduce these laws as part of it's Free Trade Agreement with the USA. Gee thanks, George!"

Comments

FTA

[starnix]

Is it just me or is the US using that fucking thing to basically pass laws in other countries? The Frog is coming to a boil.

Re:FTA

[Raistlin77]

You act like this is something new...

Re:FTA

[starnix]

No. It just disgusts me. I am ashamed to be an American.

Re:FTA

[Raistlin77]

I'm not ashamed to be American, but I am pissed off at the other idiot Americans that allow crap like this to occur.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

Hmmmm.... Half of everyone you know is below average. G.W. Bush got roughly 50% of the votes in the last election. Coincidence????

Re:FTA

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, no. Other countries pass their own laws. No one forced them to sign anything.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

Not technically no. But if they don't sign it, their economy will be fucked. Come on, get a clue.

Re:FTA

[ArcherB]

No. It just disgusts me. I am ashamed to be an American.
I hate to be the "love it or leave it" type, but why would you be ashamed of something you are free to change? I understand China is pretty lax about DRM stuff and Canada is nice this time of year.

Re:FTA

[russotto]

When it was passed in the US we were told it was required for harmonization with Europe.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

Free to change? I dont think so. It's actually quite expensive and difficult to do so. http://www.harpers.org/ElectingToLeave.html

Re:FTA

[LaughingCoder]

Remember, everyone doesn't vote. This would be a nice theory except for the fact that there is a high correlation between the level of education and the likelihood of voting (the more educated, the more likely you're a voter). So that actually means Bush got roughly 50% of the most educated voters. Quite the opposite of what your are implying. I also suspect, though I can't prove it, that there is also a high correlation showing that the less educated a voter, the more likely they vote for Democrats. This is why the Democrats are always trying to "get out the vote".

Re:FTA

[Zenaku]

And it was bull, then too. The US didn't pass it to protect free trade with the EU, and Australia didn't pass it to protect free-trade with the US.

Both passed it as a big wet blowjob for corporate interests, in the hopes that they'd leave a fifty on the nightstand.

So just handle these laws the way we do in the US. Speak up against them, fight them in court, and vote out anyone who supports them. And since none of that will actually make a spec of difference, ignore them.

Re:FTA

[sanoBabun httpishwo-]

I was afraid this day would come! Now what are aussies going to do ? help help!

Re:FTA

[Anonymous Coward]

"Free Trade Agreement" has nothing to do with free trade. It has everything to do with building a system of unfair and unbalanced trade. If you're a big US corporation then it might be "fair trade" for you, because you stand to benefit from it.

Re:FTA

[rajafarian]

Is it just me or is the US using that fucking thing to basically pass laws in other countries? The Frog is coming to a boil.

Dude, didn't you read the earlier Spamhaus story? We don't even need to pass laws in your country, 'cause we can just enforce ours there. But you know what? We have the world's largest amassment of chemical weapons, biological weapons, conventional bombs, jet fighters, aircraft carriers, Weapons of Mass Destruction in the known Universe... AND we have a credit card with bottomless pit to buy more!

We also are working on taking over every election in the world, that you may elect leaders more favorable to us; they need not even be electronic since we have money to bribe or guns to kill those that do not cooperate with us.

We reserve the right to take hostage any person, place, or thing and need not tell or explain to anyone what we did because undoubtedly, they had ties to terrorists.

Passing a law in another country is just for show, to make things easier for us so we don't have to do those things which we can do whether you like it or not.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

This also means however that Gore got 50% of the most educated voters. So your point is moot. I was just saying that to be cocky not to actually prove anything. I will go on record saying that if you voted for bush, you are a fucking idiot. In my opinion.

Re:FTA

[FonzCam]

You forgot the most important thing Bitch about them on Slashdot!

Re:FTA

[InsaneProcessor]

Yea, but this could be worse. We could have Gore (not a clue about anything). G.W. was the least of the evils to choose from.

Re:FTA

[14CharUsername]

There is also a high correlation showing the higher the income level the higher the education level. And there's a high correlation between high edcuation level and people knowing that correlation is not causation.

Re:FTA

[snottgoblin]

the more educated, the more likely you're a voter

I don't know if you meant that in general or just wrt the US but from where I come(India) most of the educated abstain from voting as they do not like any of the political candidates and consider them to be incompetent. It is the poor and uneducated folks who make up the numbers as they vote based on religious/caste based grounds.

Re:FTA

[voice_of_all_reason]

Free to change? I don't know if you've been paying attention, but we're not exactly free to protest and advocate change anymore. Remember, anyone who's not with the government is with the terrorists.

Re:FTA

[LaughingCoder]

Actually I voted for Kerry before I voted against him.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

Hear, hear!!!!

Re:FTA

[Gr8Apes]

It would be better. Dem in prez, Reps in Congress = stalemate.

They would at least leave the rest of us alone.

Re:FTA

[cayenne8]

I just don't understand why the Oz law is do draconian...Lord those penaties are worse than some serious crimes that physically hurt people get.

I know from an economic standpoint they have to pass something, but, who said it had to be so harsh?

And really what is the worst thing that could happen for not passing a tough DMCA law? I don't think the US really wants to piss off the last remaining allies they have anymore, over copying some songs do they???

I'd say, legislate something just good enough to pacify all parties if you absolutely must, but, then ignore it.

Re:FTA

[ArcherB]

Free to change? I don't know if you've been paying attention, but we're not exactly free to protest and advocate change anymore.

If we are not free to protest, then what have all these large gatherings of people carrying signs and yelling rhyming chants about everything from illegal immigration to 9-11? (Yes, I was threatened with violence by a peace protestor)

My point was that in this free country, there is no reason to be ashamed. Be proud of the fact that you do have rights to orchestrate change and air your grievences, and no one can take that away. If they do, that's why we have the right to bare arms. If you are simply going to bow your head and claim to be ashamed, you have lost the spirit that made this country what it is, and you should go somewhere that will allow you to be proud again.

Re:FTA

[ArcherB]

First of all, fuck you for being the 'love it or leave it type'.
Yeah, I deserved that.

You don't like listening to people like him, then you can go to China or anywhere else free speech isn't tolerated. Americans are allowed to hate anything about their country that they choose and are allowed to seek change any legal way they want; including by complain on slashdot.
Which is exactly why the original poster should not be "ashamed to be an American". I tolerate people saying all kinds of bad things about my country and my gov't, some true and some not, but I will not sit by and hear someone claimed to be ashamed of being something they can change. Now if a Cuban were to be ashamed, I'd understand because they are not free to leave, but shame of being an American is not like being ashamed of being white. There are a lot of places where the populace is trapped, but the US is not one of them.

Secondly, the point of the post is that the US and EU are muscling every nation into these kind of copyright regulations. So, leaving it, is becoming increasingly less of an option.

Re:FTA

[Sparr0]

I know replying to sigs burns karma...

100% Overrated indicates that -1 is too high for your post. :)

Re:FTA

[ArcherB]

Thanx, but wouldn't that mean that I am overrated and not necessarily my comment? After all, according to the moderator guidelines, "You are not moderating to make your opinions heard, you are trying to help promote a rational discussion."

I hope your karmy does not suffer too much.

Re:FTA

[russotto]

Of course it's bull, just like the coming "100 year copyright" for harmonization with Mexico will be bull. Here in the US I live in, we speak up against them and are ignored. Those who fight them in court, lose (just ask the EFF. Or bnetd or 2600). If we vote against those who support them, it's for a loser as the candidates with a chance all support the law. The fix is in, and not just in the US and OZ. Our choices are simple; obey, disobey and avoid getting caught, disobey and be bankrupted, or disobey and be jailed.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

Oops... I meant Kerry...

Re:FTA

[Grishnakh]

And this is precisely why democracy doesn't work very well in practice. I think America's founders may have had a good idea when they restricted voting to landowners.

Re:FTA

[starnix]

It costs thousands of dollars to go thru the process of renouncing your citizenship. I am not rich. I am barely getting by. Definately NOT free to change my status.

Re:FTA

[tomjen]

And jet all that hardware is useless - you are losing two wars in the middle east (Afghanistan and Iraq) contemplating starting a Third (Iran), while you are spending a fortune on imported goods because the Chineese can make it so much cheaper. No I am not impressed, and if you continue this way the United States (at least its status as a superpower) will be history very, very soon.

Re:FTA

[TheNinjaroach]

And my idea of moving to Australia to a) Not have to learn another language and b) get away from these over-reaching bullshit laws was just shot to all hell. Where on Earth can I escape the stupidity!?

Re:FTA

[scum-e-bag]

...or a revolution...

Re:FTA

[KDR_11k]

I thought leaving the country was about getting away from the damage the guy causes rather than "renouncing one's citizenship"?

Re:FTA

[KDR_11k]

Then move elsewhere and stay there. Who cares if your passport says you're american? Just get citizenship elsewhere.

at least they are honest

[tehwebguy]

"technology prevention" is certainly what DRM does.

"while those guilty of distributing enabling devices and services to others through a variety of means"

you mean like.. computers?

No need for thanks...

[Skewray]

No need for thanks, Austrialia, we're just helping another Big Brother.

Uhh..

[joshetc]

to install DVD decoders on your PC

What is the point in a DVD-Rom if we can't decode DVDs? On top of that don't we pay the same royalties for the DVD-Roms we buy that DVD player buyers pay?

to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region

Even if the manufacturer makes them multi-region?

The laws will make it illegal to modchip a console

Isn't modchipping a console sort of like putting a turbo on your car? So making MY PURCHASED PRODUCT better is against the law?

Re:Uhh..

[Opportunist]

1. Just because it is possible or makes sense doesn't mean it's legal. The DVD-Rom's reason to exist lies in the fact that you can use larger media than CDs to store data. Though, it would shed some new light on the "copyright fee" we pay here for DVD-ROMs (as well as pretty much all the rest we could possibly put into a computer, including mainboards and HDs), and I'd start to question these fees. If I am not allowed to do what I allegedly do, does that mean that by paying this fee I do admit that I'm a criminal?

2. Manufacturer will be required to discontinue offering region free DVD players. Simple as that.

3. Yes, making your purchased product better can be illegal. There are movements here to outlaw so called "chip tuning", and turbos (like nitro injectors) are not allowed altogether already.

Yes, we're getting to the point where the vendor dictates what you may do with the product you buy. I'm really waiting now for a law that outlaws refilling bottles with tap water after you drank the original content.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

I primarily use my modded XBox for emulating very old systems, and using XBoxMediaCenter. However, without a doubt, the primary use of mod chips is to pirate games. Console manufacturers sell consoles below cost with the idea that they will make the money back on games. When you pirate games, they lose out.

So the car analogy doesn't work well.

Honestly, what I would greatly prefer is to meet in the middle. Allow for unsigned code so indie developers, homebrew games, media center apps, emulators and the like can be run on the console, but focus on protecting the games since that is what they're really upset about.

With the XBox 360, there are ways currently to circumvent the security sectors on the DVDs and make backups, but I still won't buy one. Honestly for me, I'd rather have my media center and emulators than pirated games, but I believe myself to be in the minority.

However, consoles are inherently proprietary. Things like music and movies are not. Music is meant to be played on any player. I think things like DRM and region encoding on movies and music is plain silly.

If someone wants to pay extra to import your movie before they get their normal regionalized release, let them! They are good word of mouth advertising. They will tell their friends how much they loved the movie and generate positive buzz before the official release date. And someone buying your movie is still someone buying your movie. And in many cases, a movie is only released in one region. Isn't it rather innane that I can't import and watch Japanese movies on my DVD player? Why lose out on business like that?

As for music, people said the iTunes and Napster models wouldn't work. No one would pay for music legally when they could pirate it. You know what? Those models are extremely successful. They provide a good, conveinent service, and people are sick of CDs that stop playing, and buying a second or third copy of their favorite CDs. Digital music is awesome, and worth paying money for. Why use DRM? There is no good reason to penalize the people who opted to give the recording industry money, when they could have easily pirated that music.

I refuse to use services like iTunes, because I will not be told how often I can copy my music, nor be forced to use proprietary software, or select MP3 players. Give me a completely DRM-free music service, and I'll gladly pay for all my music again.

Re:Uhh..

[ZorinLynx]

There will be a HUGE uproar if they try to ban multi-region DVD players in Australia or Europe. In the US most folks don't care, because nearly everything is released here... But DVD releases in other regions are spotty and MOST DVD players in those regions are multi-region for this reason.

The market for region 1 DVDs in Europe and such is huge. I don't think they'll go far with this law before a lot of bitching results.

-Z

Re:Uhh..

[salec]

Region coding of any kind should be banned in the first place as it is a price discrimination scheme

Re:Uhh..

[Opportunist]

In the US most folks don't care, because nearly everything is released here...

One word: Anime.

Re:Uhh..

[voice_of_all_reason]

Just because it is possible or makes sense doesn't mean it's legal

And just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong, or that you should recognize the law.

Re:Uhh..

[Opportunist]

I'm glad to see that someone's still able to read between the lines. :)

Re:Uhh..

[jZnat]

One more word: VLC.

Re:Uhh..

[professionalfurryele]

I have a cunning plan. I'm going to sell pipes to people for transporting water for thier baths, but every time they want to put water through those pipes, I'm going to make them pay me using a meter. And I'm not going to let the modify the meter, or get water from any one else.

Sound like a dumb idea? It is. If the companies that make games consoles are unhappy because their stupid business model doesn't allow them to sell their console for a sensible price (read for a market driven price) and then sell the games, also for a market driven price, then I have some good old capitalist advice for them. Sod off and die.

I bought it, I will damn well do what I like with it, and if they don't like it, my advice to them is simple, don't sell it to me in the first place.

Re:Uhh..

[Explodicle]

I feel for you, dude. The government oppressed me the time I added rocket boosters to my ride.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

I'm completely against DRM, but you have no idea what you're talking about. They're selling consoles below their cost to manufacture them. At the same time, historically no console has ever been successful in history selling for more than $400. In fact, it is only due to inflation that a $300-$400 console can be successful today. If they sold the hardware for what it was actually worth, no one would buy it.

That is what the market has already decried.

Re:Uhh..

[Barny]

One URL, irc.rizon.net :P

Re:Uhh..

[Lord Kano]

Isn't modchipping a console sort of like putting a turbo on your car? So making MY PURCHASED PRODUCT better is against the law?

Yes and Yes.

LK

Re:Uhh..

[joshetc]

Yes but if they have a problem with people modding consoles they need to not sell them to customers, instead taking a cable provider type method and renting them out. Otherwise they need to tone down the manufacturing cost of the consoles so they dont have to be subsidized by their games, Ala Nintendo. Problems like these are a part of running a business. I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

Re:Uhh..

[professionalfurryele]

Oh I know that no one would buy games consoles if they were priced at cost. My point is that if you are going to sell a piece of hardware you cant tell people what they can and cannot do with it. I have no objections to the selling consoles at below cost. But they cant then turn around and complain if someone modifies those consoles.

However, trying to barstardise property law to protect this business model is totally unacceptable. If I buy something from you, and then do something with it you hadn't intended with it, well thats just tough on you, unless the something unexpected I do directly infringes on your rights.

If they want us to surrender our property rights when we buy a games console, then make us sign a contract. Don't abuse the country by barstardising property rights. It's about time someone took these corporate overlords and kicked them out of politics. It should be illegal for a limited liability company to expression a political viewpoint or utilise it's property to promote legislation or a political viewpoint.

Re:Uhh..

[Opportunist]

Yes. Now. But you've read the topic, right?

Then again, they ignore my rights, I ignore their laws. Fair deal.

Re:Uhh..

[Grishnakh]

>In the US most folks don't care, because nearly everything is released here...

One word: Anime.

You just confirmed what he said. The number of anime fans in the US is quite small, and certainly not enough to sway any politicians.

Re:Uhh..

[teh kurisu]

Ars has an item today about how this won't be the case for the Wii. I think it will also be region free, although I can't remember where I read that.

Re:Uhh..

[Yfrwlf]

Or how about car companies forcing you to regularly wash your car, claiming that dirty cars taint their image and thus "deprive them of profit". Seems like making any claim that something will decrease the projected profits of a company will justify making a law out of it.

...and I thought the marriage of religion and government was scary.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

The "evil DRM-pushing Sony" also said the PS3 will be region free.

I love reading on Slashdot daily how the XBox 360 (Microsoft) is fine, and Nintendo is great, but Sony is pure evil. The same people who hate Sony for their DRM-fiasco are quick to overlook Apple's DRM. I don't get it.

I digress.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

On this point I agree with you. I should be able to modify the hardware I have purchased. I understand placing copy-protection schemes on the hardware. And I understand protecting intellectual property. That is why I said they should compromise. Allow us to mod our console with after-market fans, and add bigger HDDs. Let us run homebrew content on the console. If they want to use copy-protection for games, that's fine.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

Given the choice of Nintendo's business model and Sony/Microsoft's model, I can't say that I prefer Nintendo.

Nintendo has great franchises, and I have great love for say Mario and Zelda. But they release inferior hardware, and then ask us to purchase the same game over and over and over again. I got Super Mario Bros. on the NES, and then they sold it to me again on the SNES and Gameboy. Then they repackage it again on the GBA, and then sell it again on the virtual console.

People bash EA for releasing new sports titles every year that are basically the same, but they have no qualms buying each new iteration of Mario Kart at full price, let alone also buying "retro" versions on new platforms a second or third time.

Microsoft despite being a fairly evil company overall pushes good hardware at a loss, hoping to make the money back with an online service while offering a free version of said service. Sony pushes to put the absolute best hardware in my hands to deliver the best gaming experience, and is promising a completely free online service.

What I don't understand, is since Nintendo has no intention to innovate with the console hardware itself, why not release their controllers and games on other platforms? Wouldn't we all win? Instead of losing money on the hardware in the first place, they can skip the part where they lose money, and then put out games with even better graphics on superior hardware.

Isn't that a win-win for everyone? Sega largely went that route.

Re:Uhh..

[dbIII]

As for making multi-region illegal - one of the groups pushing for this was Warner Bros Australia (a wholely owned subsidury) who wants it to stop Warner Bros USA from selling DVDs here and undercutting their Australian branch. I see that as disgusting and disorganised - and the side effects like Australia very large migrant population not being able to watch stuff from their home countries and the rest of us not being able to buy movies we like from other countries is vey annoying.

As for the US trade deal - we got screwed - it stirred up a lot of bad feeeling about the USA in Australia with extremely insulting clauses like we cannot even talk about beef exports until 2030.

This law would also make my Nintendo DS illegal even if the extra hardware can only run homebrew like linux and not pirated games (the GBAMP fits in this catagory - stuff has to be written for it so ripped off copies of commercial games will not work).

Re:Uhh..

[grantdh]

2. Manufacturer will be required to discontinue offering region free DVD players. Simple as that.

Which is interesting as, here in Australia, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (an independent government authority for fair competition & trade) ruled that DVD region encoding was anti-competitive a few years back. Since then, all DVD players sold in Australia must be either region free or be sold with instructions on how to unlock them.

They even went up against SONY about mod-chipping PS2's, saying it was an Australian's right to purchase games overseas and play them on systems here.

It's always interesting to find a government agency going up against it's own government in the courts over shit like this...

For more info:
ACCC comments re: region coding

ACCC vs SONY on PS2 modchips

Re:Uhh..

[jibjibjib]

Apple never installed a rootkit on my system.

Re:Uhh..

[AussieVamp2]

I am pretty sure the ACCC already ruled that region coding is bullshit, and you can circumvent it to your heart's desire, as it was purely about manipulation, and nothing with any actual useful purpose.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

I've had several people call me since I do PC repair wondering why their legally purchased iTunes songs won't work with the MP3 player they bought.

Re:Uhh..

[harmic]

As usual, no-one on slashdot reads the article, even if it is a short one.

However some exceptions will apply ... and will not apply to region code controls, according to Minter Ellison.

Re:Uhh..

[shellbeach]

There will be a HUGE uproar if they try to ban multi-region DVD players in Australia

Especially when the ACCC ruled that it's legal to buy and sell region-free DVD players here in Australia because the region code was an anti-competitive trade practice. This law is going to be in direct contravention of the ACCC's current policy on video DRM - it'll be very interesting to see what happens.

Re:Uhh..

[westlake]

One word: Anime.

Cowboy Bebop grossed $1 million dollars in US theatrical release.

This despite the series receiving careful handling and excellent exposure on a mainstream cable network.

Re:Uhh..

[joshetc]

The majority of the best nintendo games become "best sellers" within a year or so and the price drops to $20. Not to mention I'm not saying nintendo has a superior business model, its just if MS and Sony have a problem with their subsidized consoles NOT working how they should then they must change their business model. Obviously modding isn't as scary as they make it seem as they are still making consoles at way above cost.

On top of that it wouldn't take THAT much of a hit for them to stay superior hardware-wise to nintendo. The gap is large and they are not selling too much below cost. As I said, things like turning a profit are part of being a business.

Re:Uhh..

[Opportunist]

I've had my share of politicians. I'll wait with my judgement 'til I see results. I don't believe their words. Only their deeds.

Re:Uhh..

[Opportunist]

Actually it's the other way 'round. Forbidding to wash the car or use other protective means to avoid rust, claiming that it cuts into their profits if you're able to use your car for longer than the predetermined 5-10 years the car "should" work.

That's where we're now with copyright, manufacturers setting a predefined time how long you're allowed to use something and demanding laws to make it illegal to use it for longer than they deem appropriate.

Re:Uhh..

[KDR_11k]

Looking at the way the car companies dislike damageable cars in videogames because they taint their image you'd probably have to pay damages to the manufacturer if you wreck your car.

Re:Uhh..

[KDR_11k]

People bash EA for releasing new sports titles every year that are basically the same, but they have no qualms buying each new iteration of Mario Kart at full price, let alone also buying "retro" versions on new platforms a second or third time.

That's because Mario Kart doesn't get released yearly and the versions feature different levels. And because their other Mario tie ins aren't as crappy as most EA movie tie-ins.

What I don't understand, is since Nintendo has no intention to innovate with the console hardware itself, why not release their controllers and games on other platforms?

1. Because not enough people buy special-purpose controllers like that and no developer would be safe to assume people have those things at hand.
2. Because Nintendo gets a lot of money from the games released for their platform due to those platform license fees and because they don't have to pay such fees on their own games.

Isn't that a win-win for everyone? Sega largely went that route.

Yes and Sega made so little money afterwards they were bought up by Sammy and are now forced to be a small supplement to that company's gambling machine business while their quality is in a big dive that doesn't seem to end.

Re:Uhh..

[Enderandrew]

Actually, every platform releases their best sellers for $20. I'm not sure why you accredit this to Nintendo solely. I've been buying video games since the days of Atari, but it seems that Sony was the first to market an official best-seller line with the Playstation 1 at the $20 price. On other consoles previously, prices may have gone down, but not across the board at the same price at once.

Thanks a lot, George?

[ziggyzig]

How is this GWB's fault? I'm all for criticizing when appropriate (see laundry list of details from Gitmo to secret prisons), but the little parting shot at the end just seems inflammatory.

FYI - Signed in 1994

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[neonprimetime]

the little parting shot at the end just seems inflammatory

Shouldn't the slashdot editors at least make a concious effort to be better than CNN, CBS, and FOX?

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm... that's the NORTH AMERICAN free trade agreement. Last time I checked, Australia is not part of North America. I believe the free trade agreement in question is this one, which came into effect in 2005.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Churla]

You're obviously new around here... I'd like to welcome you to Slashdot. If you check by the registration page there should be a phamplet with the pre-requisite quick snappy responses such as..

"I blame Bush"
"Windows blows"
"I can't wait for the Wii to come out"

It's easy once you get in the hang of things.

As for the article and topic. The question becomes will there be some measure to defeat this legislation before it becomes law there. And is this an effort by Australia to prove it's more media cartel friendly than the US, or just a play by the media cartels to see if they can test the waters there before bringing that same legislation here to the US.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Swift(void)]

How is this GWB's fault? I'm all for criticizing when appropriate (see laundry list of details from Gitmo to secret prisons), but the little parting shot at the end just seems inflammatory. FYI - Signed in 1994

Uhhh...yeah, so that link has absolutely nothing to do with the Australia United States Free Trade Agreement that was signed in May 2004 and came into force in January 2005 that this article actually talks about.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

You linked to the wrong agreement. The older NAFTA is North American Free Trade Agreement, for Canada, US and Mexico, so it doesn't involve Australia. The New Zealand Australia Free Trade Agreement doesn't involve the US and isn't called that anymore. The agreement is the AUSFTA - Australia US Free Trade Agreement, according to the Australian Government, it was signed in 2006.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us.html

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[syrinx]

Of course it's unnecessary, not to mention incorrect (as you point out with the free trade agreement, plus, our own DMCA was signed in 1998, PLUS the president can't really do much re: laws anyway, since that's congress' job... but if we can get in anti-Bush comments, who cares about facts!). But whoever this new "kdawson" editor is is even worse than the old editors when it comes to selecting stories free of flamebait. I think he specifically seeks out the stories where the submitter added some stupid comment. (And if it's anti-Bush, all the better.) Probably helps keep up the page and ad views.

Man has Slashdot turned to crap. I usually hate when people post complaining about /. here, but I've been starting to agree with them. I suppose I could go to Digg more often instead, but at least /. sometimes has a reasonably good comments section on some articles. I've yet to see any sort of intelligent life over in the Digg comment section.

Can't wait for my offtopic mod! Or maybe a troll, or the coveted "overrated". If I'm really lucky, someone will go through my post history and mod other posts down too, which usually happens when I disagree that anything anti-Bush is automatically goodthink.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Eccles]

How is this GWB's fault?

'It was not until early 2001, after the election of George W. Bush in the US and with John Howard in power in Australia, that a US-Australia FTA finally began to take shape. In April 2001, President Bush signalled his interest in pursuing an FTA with Australia provided "everything is on the table".'

[...]

'the text was finally agreed to in February 2004, and signed off on by Australian Trade Minister Mark Vaile and [Bush appointee] US Trade Representative Robert Zoellick in Washington in May 2004.'

(Source Wikipedia, but unless you can find something to contradict, I'm going with it.)

All Congress got to do was ratify the agreement as negotiated.

Sorry boys, but you most definitely can blame Bush.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[ziggyzig]

Yep, absolutely correct. For the record, though, it was passed 80-16 in Senate and 270-156 in House and modelled on the NAFTA.

Good Link - here
original comment, albeit linking to the wrong agreement still stands - you can't [or shouldn't] knee-jerkingly blame the Pres. for everything. this is a site for nerds, not politicians...

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[ziggyzig]

Wrong link...corrected in subsequent post. Mod down or whatever.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[ClioCJS]

How is this GWB's fault? 'It was not until early 2001, after the election of George W. Bush in the US and with John Howard in power in Australia, that a US-Australia FTA finally began to take shape. In April 2001, President Bush signalled his interest in pursuing an FTA with Australia provided "everything is on the table".' [...] 'the text was finally agreed to in February 2004, and signed off on by Australian Trade Minister Mark Vaile and [Bush appointee] US Trade Representative Robert Zoellick in Washington in May 2004.' (Source Wikipedia, but unless you can find something to contradict, I'm going with it.) All Congress got to do was ratify the agreement as negotiated. Sorry boys, but you most definitely can blame Bush.

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Brandybuck]

No, no you can't blame Bush. This is stupid. Unless I missed the news this morning, Australia is NOT the 51st state! It is a sovereign nation beholden only to itself. It takes two to sign a treaty. If you want to blame someone, BLAME AUSTRALIA!

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[z3d4r]

The FTA that the US has with Australia is not the NAFTA that you linked to on wikipedia. The Australian FTA came along later, was pushed by both GWB and Aussie PM John Howard. George actualy made a point of telling the American Congress what a great deal he had gotten on this FTA regarding America's sugar farmers

Re:Thanks a lot, George?

[Eccles]

Unless I missed the news this morning, Australia is NOT the 51st state!

You're right! That's Canada.

I dunno, though, that's kind of like blaming a kid for giving a bully his lunch money.

Thank Howard

[QuantumG]

He's the one you voted for last election cause he promised interest rates wouldn't go up if you did. He lied of course, but that's what politicians do.

Re:Thank Howard

[mgblst]

Little Johnny Howard, you are a scumbag.

And what has this Free-Trade treaty with the US given us, the right to sell some more wheat. Nothing.

You Johhny, are a joke, and a bastard. Leave my country alone.

Re:Thank Howard

[QuantumG]

I think we all agree with the sentiment dude, but I don't think he reads Slashdot.

Re:Thank Howard

[decadre]

People are often greedy and stupid.

Rights and such mean nothing when someone is offering to give you a tax cut...


People believe what they want to, they don't stop to think.. Just about little things such as the fact that the government doesn't actually have full control over interest rates, but that they are affected by things outside their sphere of influence...

Re:Thank Howard

[deek]

He's the one you voted for last election cause he promised interest rates wouldn't go up if you did. He lied of course, but that's what politicians do.

I'd be surprised if Howard promised this, for the plain fact that the Australian government does not directly control interest rates. The Reserve Bank does. So little Johnny could promise anything he wants, but when inflation shoots up because of overseas oil, the Reserve Bank is going to raise interest rates. The government can't do a thing about it.

I can't remember myself exactly what he promised in the last election, but maybe it was craftily worded into a pseudo-promise (i.e "we shall endeavour to prevent an interest rate rise"). You've got to be careful how these politicians phrase things.

Re:Thank Howard

[ultranova]

He's the one you voted for last election cause he promised interest rates wouldn't go up if you did. He lied of course, but that's what politicians do.

Yeah. That's the reason for low voter attendance rates: people know perfectly well that whoever they vote for will turn around and screw them. What you need to get those rates up is not advertizements or slogans, but simply candidates worth voting for. This is true, more and more, for all countries with elections, not just USA (or Australia).

Yeah, that's all we need, a honest, benevolent, honorable politician. In other words, we're screwed.

Re:Thank Howard

[QuantumG]

Australia has nearly 100% voter turn out.

Did I mention that it's illegal not to vote in Australia?

Re:Thank Howard

[HuguesT]

In the last Federal election, things were going very well with the Labor party, until John Howard made one little remark :

With the labor party, interest rates will go up.

This is it. No promises that with him rate wouldn't go up, just nice refreshers on how in the 80s when labour was in power interest rates were in the double-digit range (like everywhere else in the western world). Almost overnight labor's lead evaporated, and John Howard was elected again.

Re:Thank Howard

[fabs64]

It drives me nuts how as a large collective we are such a politically stupid country...
How much more crap does the federal govt. get away with than states and local councils?

Re:Thank Howard

[Macgrrl]

But, surely it wasn't a core promise. You know, like "there will never, ever be a GST"...

Not that I like him

[Kusand]

But i sincerely doubt Bush had any direct effect on this law. You might want to start by being mad at Orrin Hatch and working your way through the rest of the U.S. Congress if you're going to complain.

Re:Not that I like him

[QuantumG]

You mean other than the fact that he personally promised a FTA with Australia in exchange for our "support" in Iraq?

Should all Be Legal

[neonprimetime]

laws will make it illegal to modchip a console, to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region, to install DVD decoders on your PC, or to circumvent DRM in any other way.

These should all be legal in the confides of your own home. But what should be illegal is you trying to make money and selling your hacks/modchips.

Re:Should all Be Legal

[BiggerIsBetter]

Why should it be illegal? As another poster pointed out, it's just like selling modifications to your car. Modchips don't automatically imply illegal activities or copyright infringement, it could simply be a way to play the DVDs you bought while working in Japan. Selling them shouldn't be illegal because not everyone has the ability to do it themselves, yet anyone could have a valid need to use them.

Re:Should all Be Legal

[bigpat]

These should all be legal in the confides of your own home. But what should be illegal is you trying to make money and selling your hacks/modchips.

No.

As long as there is a legal use for DRM Circumvention, then the devices should be legal to sell.

We don't throw Xerox sales reps in jail just because their technology could be used to infringe on copyright.

Copyright law struck a balance between the rights of creators to benefit from their work and the ability of the public to benefit from the work once it was published. And it balances the Freedom of expression rights of both the original creator and those that would make use of the original work in a derivative work. The concept is fair use. Enshrining DRM into law without allowing for reliable ability to make fair use of content throws fair use out the window and undermines the foundation of copyright law. DRM lets the content producer have it both ways and effectively invalidates the time limited provisions of copyright law.

In the US, prohibitions on DRM circumvention are unconstitutional because they violate Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 which allows congress "to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"

Anti DRM circumvention laws violate this provision, "securing for limited times", because the legal effect is to allow authors or their delegates to control copying far beyond any expiration of copyright.

As far as I am aware the most of the challenges so far to the DMCA have focused on peripheral issues. Whereas they should be focusing on the lack of any type sunset provision for legal use of DRM. Congress certainly has the right to allow DRMs use, but if it legally and effectively prohibits copying well beyond the expiration of copyright, then the law is quite clearly unconstitutional as well as unwise.

Is it just me or is this old news?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's been news before about the Australia-US free trade agreement demanding DRM laws from Australia:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/03/05/229228.shtml

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/27/23 8213

This is back when John Howard thought being pro-Bush would be popular. One Kyoto Protocol rejection and two middle east wars later, he's left his country vulnerable to US style DRM ass-raping.

Re:Is it just me or is this old news?

[neonprimetime]

Slashdot editors only consider articles "dups" if they've already been posted today. Previous days don't count.

Same old story

[cHALiTO]

what.. you seriously thought FTAs were about trade and import barriers?
They've been trying this on south america for decades. Some countries have aligned themselves with the US (chile, mexico), others refuse to accept such kind of conditions though I don't know for how long they'll be able to resist. International and Internal pressure from investment groups and the like on the governments is huge.

Re:Same old story

[teh_meph]

Initially FTAs are about trade and import barriers, but exposing countries to the conditions of our economy through trade also exposes them to the conditions of our marketplace, and right now DRM is 'all the rage' amongst lawmakers.

I applaude this decision...

[Anonymous Coward]

The more DRM the more diversity in P2P downloads.

(Think about the range of US jurisdiction and countries with sane laws (like Sweden) before you answer)

Welcome to the club.

[theaddkid.com]

Welcome to the club and good luck with your new version of the DMCA given the great success we here in the USA have had with a law such as this.

DVD de-regioning?

[tygerstripes]

to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region

You mean to say that, were I an Oz resident, I couldn't flash my DVD-drive to enable me to play my perfectly legally imported Region 1 DVDs? As a UK resident, I did exactly this so that I could get the missus a copy of Legend with the original-release Tangerine Dream soundtrack (not available in UK) as opposed to the ridiculous "director's cut" version that pollutes our senses to this day.

Isn't this just a huge step backwards in the natural global-information-culture progression? I mean, this difficult balance between the rights of consumers and the rights of creators and retailers is getting knocked all over the place with heavy-handed laws.

Piracy is already illegal, but there are many non-pirating practices that can make use of some of these technologies. Isn't this like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, when the bath was already drained anyway?

Re:DVD de-regioning?

[Petrushka]

You mean to say that, were I an Oz resident, I couldn't flash my DVD-drive to enable me to play my perfectly legally imported Region 1 DVDs?

See this comment. However, it wouldn't have been surprising if this were in fact the case; Oz has been pretty draconian in these matters all along; it's still illegal to copy your own CDs to an MP3 player, for example. (I think. It's illegal in NZ, anyway.) Not that anyone's ever been prosecuted for that ... yet.

Re:DVD de-regioning?

[QuantumG]

The law specifically doesn't cover region coding. You are free to remove that restriction, if you can. The law only covers TPMs for preventing copyright infringement, and there's a large number of exceptions for when the public good supercedes.

Re:DVD de-regioning?

[PrescriptionWarning]

Isn't this like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, when the bath was already drained anyway?

I dunno, but i think seeing a baby go flying out of a bathtub would be pretty hilarious either way. +10 points for each time it bounces before coming to a stop.

Re:DVD de-regioning?

[tygerstripes]

Ah, that's a relief - thanks for clearing that up.

Re:DVD de-regioning?

[Mr_Tone]

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/31/18 19221 As of this year, CD-ripping is legal.

Re:DVD de-regioning?

[pbjones]

in Oz DVD zoning was declared anti-competative and it can be ignored. So I can just go out and buy a multi-zone DVD played, or hack my DVD drive, it's NOT a copyright issue. But the new laws will make it ilegal. Which will be tested in the courts again. Nothing free about about the FTA as they excluded many things like sugar and meat that Oz is very good at suppling, and USA does badly.

It's not George's fault, it is our PM's fault, Johnny errr.. something.

buh!

[Anonymous Coward]

in other news, australian will have to
stop doing basic algebra. it will be
illegal to do following:
1+1=2.

you may not have your computer COMPUTE
certain code (101010010100...) so it can
do certain(*) tasks.
sheesh ...

(*)example: understand/read a DVD from a
different region.

Doesn't cover region coding

[QuantumG]

and there's other exceptions, including interoperability and security testing.

Be nice if the SMH actually bothered to link to the drafts. What is it with newspapers, they seem to think the level of detail you would read on a dead tree is applicable to an internet audience.

Re:Doesn't cover region coding

[russotto]

We've got those interoperability and security testing exceptions in the US, too. They're carefully written to be practically useless but to make the law appear more reasonable. It's a good thing the U.S. Code isn't copyrighted or this thing would be a serious violation...

Re:Doesn't cover region coding

[davesag]

Thanks for posting the link to the actual legislation. My concern with this is that I have lived all over the world and wn DVDs from at least 4 different regions, so having a region-free player (I bought mine from a Sony shop in Amsterdam) is essential if I want to watch them. So, all issues of stupid free trade agreements (hey here in Oz macs are 20% cheaper than in Europe so it can't be all bad) aside, it's interesting that all this hooplah is a little overblown: The legislation clearly states:

TPMs must be connected with copyright infringement

The scope of the scheme is limited to preventing circumvention of TPMs designed to stop copyright piracy. The scheme will not cover TPMs which are not designed to prevent or inhibit people from infringing copyright. The scheme will not apply to TPMs solely designed for other purposes, such as market segmentation (eg region coding) or the protection against competition in aftermarket goods (eg spare parts) where the TPM does not have a connection with copyright.

Re:Doesn't cover region coding

[rusty]

Sorry, the Age in this case is correct. The problem is that this exception does not say "if you're circumventing for non-infringment purposes you're OK", but "if a TPM has no copyright-protecting purpose you're OK". The TPM is always claimed to be "protecting a copyright", in which case you lose. The narrow case of modifying today's DVD players might be OK (assuming the court doesn't buy the "we need region code to protect copyright" which was claimed by copyright holders in the recent House of Reps Legal and Constitutional Affairs TPM hearings), but PS/2 modchipping is in trouble, as are just about any future technology. As long as it's under the same technological umbrella as something that "inhibits copyright infringement", copyright holders can place restrictions as they want.

Despite lobbying against such a legislative model for two years, we've ended up with this muddled law which is going to be decided by the High Court in around 7 years time.

Rusty.

Recant your infocentric ideas!

[w33t]

I wonder if some day in the (hopefully not too) far future DRM and similar laws restricting the distribution of information will be looked upon in the same light as we now look upon the Catholic Church's order to Galileo to cease teaching the heretical notion of heliocentrism.

Website about the agreement

[PHAEDRU5]

Here's a web site about the agreement:

http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us.html

illegal to pick bank locks?

[192939495969798999]

I guess you could relate this to making picking bank vault locks illegal, when in fact it's the 'stealing money' part that's illegal.

Re:illegal to pick bank locks?

[joe_n_bloe]

There's the breaking and entering part too.

Lets get real

[gomaze]

If they were to go after people for doing these things then they would have to be going after just about everyone in the country. If you own a computer and legel dvd software, aka .. PowerDVD then you are going to have to pay out major fines. The store is going to have to pay even more for selling world wide, industry recognized, highly popular software. Oh and how are you going to put a company in jail if they are inc. This sounds like more a paper law that wont be enforced but just to show compliance.

It's about market control

[Opportunist]

Believe me, I feel your pain. We only get very badly dubbed versions of movies in bad quality here if we buy a "local" region code DVD.

But what this is about is market share and control. The distribution cartel has the world divided in certain "sectors", that pretty much correspond with the RCs. And of course, they have to pay fees to the studios according to their presumed revenues.

Those revenues rely on you being forced to buy with them, though. If someone in, say, Europe could simply buy a DVD from the US (because it's out like a month earlier, mostly due to distribution negotiations taking a few days), the distributor in Europe is losing money. Also he would lose money because, as I said in the first paragraph, the dubbing is most of the time simply outright BAD. And I prefer to listen to it in the original anyway. So what do I do? Right. I buy it a month early in a well made box instead of a dubbed version in cardboard a month later.

And this is what they want to avoid. Besides, the distri in the US only paid them for the distri rights in the US (and Canada, afaik). Should nobody in Europe pick it up because they didn't think there'd be a market, the Distri in the US would make a killing (and leave the studio ripped off). Also, should it against all odds become a huge seller, they can still sell the rights for distribution in Europe and make money again, because I (here in Europe) couldn't have bought it in the US (because of RC lock).

It's all about money and market control.

Re:It's about market control

[Deliveranc3]

One word, ChinaTown. :P

Control laws

[Opportunist]

Laws like this, i.e. laws that everyone breaks, are for control. Need a warrant? Let's see, does he have a computer? Great, we got one.

Re:FTA (Softwood Lumber - a lesson)

[arthurpaliden]

When they do sign it their economy will still be 'fucked' because the US government will not enforce the agreement unless the US benifits. For an example check out the Softwood Lumber dispute between Canada and the US. Canada had to pay the $1 Billion (US), yes one billion dollars, to the the US goverment and their lumber intrests just to get them to drop illigal duties, found illigal by all FTA tribulas, the WTO and the US federal courts. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/softwood_lumber/

That's not very "free",

[Bromskloss]

is it?

Thank you

[Larch]

Sometimes I feel a little homesick and then Slashdot publishes a story like this.

The Aus/US FTA was a pile of crap to begin with and I can't wait for it to start affecting ordinary Australians who apparently didn't give a crap about it at the time.

There was nothing to be gained and everything to lose. At least John Howard will be remembered for having sold the nation for nothing.

WTO

[nurb432]

Now do you believe me when i called the WTO one of the most dangerous things on the planet?

Re:WTO

[nurb432]

If you dont see the connection, which is obvious to anyone with even 1/2 a brain, you are an idiot and its not worth explaining it to you.

Have a nice day, drooling over yourself.

Re:Let me just say, on behalf of all Americans,

[Twixter]

In other news, Australians past a new 'future crimes act' which will make it illegal to purchase video cameras, audio recording devices, or pants that would be too tight if you were to put them on.

Coming to Australia?

[Temujin_12]

Don't you mean GOING to Australia? ;)

But it's not a "copy control" mechanism

[mengel]

... its a "playback prevention" mechanism. You can copy DVD's, etc. all you want and the mechanism doesn't mind. It will play exact copies of the media just as well as originals, and it makes no difference.

It just controls where/when you can play a DVD. That is, it is a play control mechanism, not a copy control mechanism.

So as long as they only outlawed circumventing copy-protection mechanisms, they haven't actually affected DRM. The MPAA rhetoric basically comes back and bites them here -- by lying about what the issue is, they get a law that doesn't actually do what they want.

Re:But it's not a "copy control" mechanism

[m94mni]

Is this really true? I thought pressed DVDs had extra tracks containing the keys that do not exist on DVD+-R disks...?

Thus, a player that does not rely on cracking the key will not work with copied DVDs. Or am I wrong?

Re:But it's not a "copy control" mechanism

[Ender Ryan]

Do you honestly think that even matters in the least? No, it probably doesn't. You'll still be charged, and fined / jailed.

Unless of course, you are very wealthy. Then you may be able to buy some "justice."

That is just the modern way of things.

Re:But it's not a "copy control" mechanism

[dangitman]

You are wrong.

Probably about the same.

[pavon]

I also suspect, though I can't prove it, that there is also a high correlation showing that the less educated a voter, the more likely they vote for Democrats.

I don't know that that is the case. While the Democrats used to have very strong support with working class people (low income correlates with lower education), this has been decreasing, and is only kinda strong support now. Moderately educated college students are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican, however this is balenced out by the fact that the group of most highly educated people are as well. After the last presidential election, the Democrats liked to point out that the states with the most educated people also had the strongest Democratic support, the opposite of your claim, although this doesn't necissarilly prove that the educated ones were the ones voting Democrat.

And of course the numbers could come out different depending on if you use mean or median education level, etc. In the end I'd guess that the average education levels of voters is more or less the same for Democrats and Republicans.

Re:Probably about the same.

[Lord Kano]

While the Democrats used to have very strong support with working class people (low income correlates with lower education), this has been decreasing, and is only kinda strong support now.

The Democrats have been losing support amongst the "working class" because of social issues.

The Democrats assumed that people only cared about their pockets. They assumed that people would look the other way when the Dems tried to enact social policy that they disagreed with as long as we thought that they were punishing the rich.

They found out, quite painfully over the past decade that this isn't the case. Between 1994 and 2000 the Democrats lost control of the House, Senate and White House, all because of social issues.

When I say social issues, I'm talking about abortion, welfare reform, gun control and "gay marriage". Although, not necessarily in that order.

LK

It's not 'America', it's corporations

[paranode]

Their lobbying efforts have pushed these laws while politicians and *most* Americans don't really know what's going on. The fact that most of these corporations develop heavily in countries like the US would make it appear that the country and not the corporations are the source, but don't be fooled.

Re:It's not 'America', it's corporations

[Anonymous Coward]

America is corporate fortress. They even conditioned (a.k.a. brainwashed) you to extinguish any protest against them as "communism" (a self-explanatory evil, no less). And as long as they can keep you frightened by the rest of the world beeing "anti-american" to various degrees, they are safe from any limitation to their power. Methinks that even if you were to regain the public, majority control over "your" government, they are so mighty today that they could buy themself another private Army, Navy and Air Force, probably someplace like Australia - not too many people to control, isolated from possible adversaries,... who knows, once robotics kick in big time... I for one welcome our new Auzzie corporate overlords!

Re:It's not 'America', it's corporations

[Anonymous Coward]

America IS the corporations. They buy and sell the politicians like penny stocks. All the rest of us do is vote on the losers put up by the money men (and a few women). Do you want Exxon/Mobil or GE as your representative in congress? (Halliburton already has a lock on the executive.)

Re:illegal to pick YOUR OWN locks?

[parodyca]

No it's more like making it illegal to pick the lock on your OWN vault.

Makes complete sense!

[Jugalator]

Australia is obliged to introduce these laws as part of it's Free Trade Agreement with the USA. Gee thanks, George!"

Well, it only makes sense that in order to make free trade, the involved parties should stop their customers from using the purchased goods freely, right?

What's the point?

[Digital Vomit]

Remember, everyone doesn't vote.

What's the point in voting when all the candidates act the same way anyway? People aren't voting because there's are rarely ever any people on the ballot worth getting up to vote for. What's the point if Jack Johnson (R) gets into office instead of John Jackson (D)? They'll both make the same stupid decisions being made in the interests of big business or some special interest group anyway. We're left with is this ridiculous Rebulicrat/Demican waltz that goes on forever.

The worst part about all this is the sheer number of people who think voting democrat instead of republican or republican instead of democrat will fix anything.

You want people to vote in this farcical circus we call a democracy? Get the DMV involved and make it a requirement to have voted in the previous election in order to get your driving license renewed, or something equally retarded. The only way to get people to take part in something that's not worth doing is to either change the thing so that it *is* worth doing, or to force them into doing it.

Re:What's the point?

[0xABADC0DA]

People don't vote because they are lazy, ignorant, and/or don't care, not because there's nothing worth voting for. There's always something worth voting for that actually does make a difference. You can vote for the lesser of two evils, or an independent, or a local referendum that actually affects you, or in the worst case cast an empty vote to lodge your protest. Even casting an empty ballot is worth doing.

I think you'll find 99% of the time this is just an excuse to hide a personal fault. Which would you rather tell somebody, that you didn't vote because you were just lazy or because "they're all the same"? Would you rather tell somebody you didn't vote because you were too ignorant to know that the richest school district in the state doesn't actually need extra money on the referendum, or that "one vote won't make a difference". Would you rather tell people that you didn't vote for an 3rd party candidate because you didn't even know what day was election day or because "a vote for a 3rd party is a wasted vote"?

Re:What's the point?

[LaughingCoder]

Shhh. I am perfectly fine with him not voting. Every person who "thinks" like him makes my vote count even more!

Re:What's the point?

[michrech]

People don't vote because they are lazy, ignorant, and/or don't care, not because there's nothing worth voting for. There's always something worth voting for that actually does make a difference. You can vote for the lesser of two evils, or an independent, or a local referendum that actually affects you, or in the worst case cast an empty vote to lodge your protest. Even casting an empty ballot is worth doing.

In your world, maybe. In my world, voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for "evil". You can wish to vote independent (or whatever other "party") all you want. It won't matter one bit if they aren't even on the ballot.

Perfect example: Vote for Kerry, who will bumble around in office and flip-flop on everything (and *possibly* have driven us to war, or not...) Or vote for Bush, who wished to "bring society together" by driving a wedge into it (FMA, anyone?). Oh.. He also drove us to war. Directly to war. We did not pass "go", nor did we collect $200 (well, actually, he did give us some money, but he put us even further into debt to do it wich, in my mind, negates having given us the money in the first place).

I have not voted in some time because all those running for office, for the most part, have been completely opposite of what I look for. I don't just "sit" here, however, and stew about it. I write to them and tell them why I'm not voting (not that I think it'd change anything).

Our system of government needs changes -- badly. I am just not sure how to go about it.

Re:What's the point?

[Digital Vomit]

In your world, maybe. In my world, voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for "evil". You can wish to vote independent (or whatever other "party") all you want. It won't matter one bit if they aren't even on the ballot.

Exactly. And it irritates me to no end when someone says that people who don't vote don't get to complain about the government (not saying anyone in this thread hs done that; I'm just saying...). So, non-voters are somehow in the wrong because they didn't vote for either the "build-more-parkland-with-the-blood-of-babies" candidate or the "burn-all-plant-life-to-protect-our-babies" candidate? (I exaggerate my example to illustrate my point)

Re:What's the point?

[CCW]

Everybody is the complete opposite of what you look for in a candidate? I think you need to reexamine your criteria, and perhaps prioritize. Everything is not equally important. I'm not sure how this comment got marked insightful.

Your world doesn't seem very practical. Do you skip lunch because the ideal sandwich isn't available?

Re:What's the point?

[Maxo-Texas]

I vote.

It doesn't make any difference. In 12 years, it made a difference in *one* vote. The results of the rest were predetermined by my heavily gerrymandered district. Doesn't matter if I vote for or against something or someone. It's already determined 70 / 30. The issues or candidates I get to vote for or against were pre-selected by the party elite and corporations. All my vote does is legitimize an illegitimate process. I still do-- there was the time I was vote #31 in turning out an incumbant for a new guy who hadn't been corrupted yet.

What's with this voting messages lately? I have typed this same message 3 times in the last 3 days-- and not at all for the 3 months before that.

Re:What's the point?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Perfect example: Vote for Kerry, who will bumble around in office and flip-flop on everything (and *possibly* have driven us to war, or not...)

I see you bought the propaganda. Congratulations, you're human clay. Kerry voted for the bill, then flip flopped when someone added a rider - god forbid someone change their mind due to changing circumstances. Meanwhile, Bush goes and does what he wants and justifies it afterwards by claiming sovereignity.

Re:What's the point?

[ozbird]

What's the point in voting when all the candidates act the same way anyway?

You've got it backwards. Because people in the US don't bother to vote, politicians know that can act anyway they like without repercussion as long as they keep the few that do (big business and speciail interest groups) happy. Make voting compulsory (as it is in Australia), and they have to deal with the uneducated mob who don't know nuffin' 'bout economic rationalism, but do know they lost their job last week, or an asshat politician when they see one. Those kind of forces make politicians nervous - and a nervous politician is a good thing.

Re:What's the point?

[Trillian_1138]

Exactly. And it irritates me to no end when someone says that people who don't vote don't get to complain about the government (not saying anyone in this thread hs done that; I'm just saying...). So, non-voters are somehow in the wrong because they didn't vote for either the "build-more-parkland-with-the-blood-of-babies" candidate or the "burn-all-plant-life-to-protect-our-babies" candidate? (I exaggerate my example to illustrate my point)

Well, I'll say it if no one else is: If you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the government. See, as other people have said, you don't have to vote for a Democrat or a Repulican. You're right, there's damn small chance that your guy will win if you don't, but the option is there either as a write-in or (sometimes) actually as someone on the ballot. Hell, submit a blank ballot to screw with statistics. If enough people did it you'd potentially see a winning candidate with a negligable fraction of the vote because so many people submitted blank ballots. Not going to change things, neccesarily, but makes a statement. Or vote for yourself. Vote for a fake candidate. Any of those options give you the legitimate gripe that you *tried* to change things but your guy didn't win. Otherwise you have nothing.

So yes, if you don't vote you have no right to complain.
-Trillian

Re:What's the point?

[Hotawa Hawk-eye]

Let's say you and a group of your friends are ordering a pizza. You ask everyone what they want before ordering the pizza. Your friend Bob doesn't say anything, but proceeds to complain vigorously when the pizza arrives that it doesn't have anchovies, his favorite topping. Now I think it would be reasonable for him to complain if he'd asked for part of the pizza to have anchovies on it when you asked, but he's basically expected you to read his mind to determine what topping he wanted. That's not reasonable. In my book, you have a right to complain if you vote, no matter whether you voted for the Republican candidate, the Democrat candidate, Kang, Kodos, or anyone else. "Speak now, or forever hold your peace" doesn't just apply to weddings.

Re:What's the point?

[LaughingCoder]

I see you bought the propaganda. Congratulations

OK, as someone who has lived in Mr. Kerry's state during most of his tenure as its junior senator, I have more than a passing familiarity with his patterns. That "voted against it before I voted for it" comment that Bush and the Republicans tatooed him with during the campaign may very well have refered to the type of scenario you posit (i.e. someone changed the bill). However, his remark really captured perfectly his whole political career. He always positions himself on both sides of the issue. He was a "war hero" who protested the war. He is a hunter who supports gun laws. He is a rich man (married into money) who is for the little guy. He is a Catholic who supports abortion. The list goes on and on. In the end, the man has no principals, other that his strong desire to be (re)elected.

Re:What's the point?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Somehow, I still prefer the douchebag that he is to what we've currently got. Too bad the real candidate (Dean) got dropped for having actual ideas.

Legend on DVD - was DVD de-regioning?

[speculatrix]

IMDB user comments suggests that it was the Tangerine Dream soundtrack used only the USA that actually spoiled things, albeit gave it a dramatic ending. However, not having had the chance to compare, I would want to see both and see for myself.

Re:Legend on DVD - was DVD de-regioning?

[tygerstripes]

Yeah, it's a common opinion. I skimmed a few of the comments - some have a pragmatic, mature attitude about the soundtracks (and cuts), but so much of it seems to be fan-boy "OMGZ have you seen the ORIGINAL how it was MEANT to be seen before the AMERICANS screwed it up like WOW!" that it leaves me feeling a little depressed.

I never saw either version until this year, so I don't have any childhood-memory associations either way. As a result I can say I did really enjoy the story of the director's cut (it was much fuller), but the soundtrack turned the whole thing into a ridiculously sentimental wash-out. The scene with the black dress (if you dunno what I'm on about, sorry) is about seduction, loss of innocence, submission to your own potential for wickedness. The director's cut leaves this feeling like a bit of a trance, like she's been hypnotized and it's all just a dream to her - like the ball-scene from Labyrinth. That works, but then when you hear it with the US release soundtrack it suddenly becomes so much sharper. She's not being controlled, she's just succumbing to her own temptation - it's so incredibly bittersweet, it just conjures every memory of lost innocence, lost love, all your bad dreams of your girlfriend being seduced, and projects them onto the screen.

As one person said, the Tangerine Dream soundtrack turns it into a bit of a "cult" flick. But they say that like it's a bad thing. Which films stand the test of time, over and over? Grandiose epics and cult-flicks.

Why blame George?

[SirAnodos]

Who signed off on the DMCA? This whole mess is on both sides of the isle, and it isn't going to change until we people show the government who they are supposed to be working for. Right now, they think they work for lobbying industries such as RIAA, MPAA, etc.

Re:Why blame George?

[Gadget_Guy]

The real question is who signed off on the Free Trade Agreement. Until this was signed, the DCMA was your problem.

Personally, I would be blaming Johnny. It would be nice to have a Prime Minister that was not the US President's buttmonkey.

Re:Why blame George?

[Grishnakh]

I don't know for sure, but I'd presume the Australia-US free trade agreement was signed by Bush.

It's bad enough that Clinton sold us out with the DMCA. But it sounds like Bush sold out Australia with his action. You're right though; overall, the mess is on both sides.

Illegal, since when...?

[bscott]

> The laws will make it illegal to modchip a console, to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region,

So if I, hypothetically mind you, recently helped my Aussie in-laws to find the region unlock code on their DVD remote so they could watch some shows which were legally purchased (and only available) in America, then if/when this law passes will they get sent to Gitmo??

DVD players have multi-region built in.

[z0idberg]

Don't most DVD players have multi-region built in these days? It's not so much a hack as enabling it. For example I bought a cheap DIVX DVD player:

Roadstar 2501X
http://www.dealclick.co.uk/product/10902501/Roadst ar-DVD-2501X.php
To enable multi region these are the steps:

1. Power off your DVD player
2. Power on your DVD player
3. Press the Open button on your remote control to open the drive tray
4. Press the 1 button on your remote control
5. Press the 0 button on your remote control
6. Press the 3 button on your remote control
7. Press the 0 button on your remote control
8. Press the 0 button on your remote control for multi-region playback
9. The onscreen display will indicate the currently selected region
10. Power off your DVD player
11. Power on your DVD player

That's not a hack, thats turning on a feature that is ALREADY THERE! how much prison time can I get for that? Does holding down SHIFT when closing your CD drive count as "circumvent(ing) DRM in any other way"?

I can see this going the same way as recording from TV to VHS or ripping mp3s. Was illegal for a very long time but everyone did it and no-one was ever prosecuted. This was recently ruled as legal with changes to copyright laws. info here .

I can see no-one getting done for this except mod-chip sellers/services, unless of course the *IAA throw their weight around and demand a few big fines to keep the masses in line.
Thanks again Johhny Howard for bending us all over to take another one from GW.

I really admire the New Zealand government for consistantly having the backbone to stand up for what is "right" the heavyweight nations. They have a long tradition of doing this whereas Australia has started to get a reputation for folding when the USA starts throwing their economic/military weight around.

Examples:
+Anti-Nuclear policy - 1985 refused nuclear powered and armed ships access to their ports
+No "Free-Trade"* agreement with the USA (*also known as a "you scratch our back and we wont squash you agreement")
+Staying out of the "Coalition of the Willing" for IRAQ invasion.


If John Howard had half a backbone we wouldn't have been in the "Coalition of the Willing(to Invade)" either, but hs is all about the economy and for that he needed to sell out to the USA. Except now we are screwed in IRAQ and screwed by the agreement as well. Nice move.

Re:DVD players have multi-region built in.

[Grishnakh]

I really admire the New Zealand government for consistantly having the backbone to stand up for what is "right" the heavyweight nations. They have a long tradition of doing this whereas Australia has started to get a reputation for folding when the USA starts throwing their economic/military weight around.

  Examples:
  +Anti-Nuclear policy - 1985 refused nuclear powered and armed ships access to their ports

I agree with everything else you said, but what's wrong with nuclear-powered ships? I can understand not allowing nuclear-armed ships access to your ports, but what's wrong with nuclear

power

? It's clean, safe (no naval accidents I know of except for a Soviet sub (Kursk); the Americans have a perfect record I believe), requires no refueling for 2 decades, and a lot better than burning enormous quantities of fuel oil (or diesel or other fossil fuels) and polluting the ocean air.

Re:DVD players have multi-region built in.

[pommiekiwifruit]

I really admire the New Zealand government for consistantly having the backbone to stand up for what is "right" the heavyweight nations. They have a long tradition of doing this whereas Australia has started to get a reputation for folding when the USA starts throwing their economic/military weight around.

Two words: Rainbow Warrior. New Zealand folded into letting free the perpetrators of the only foreign terrorist attack ever carried out on NZ soil, after Mitterand (who it turns out was also supporting a secret child at taxpayers' expense and subverting democracy in germany)'s government threatened to bully the EU into cut all exports from NZ unless the terrorists Alain Mafart and Dominique Prieur were released to french custody (and hence to medals/parades etc.). Them hiring out the Prime Minister's own property (David Lange) for the crime was just taking the piss. But they got away with it.

Re:DVD players have multi-region built in.

[Grishnakh]

So after 2 decades, what happens? Oh, you try to find somewhere to store incredibly poisonous substances for 10 thousand years... maybe bury them in the US somewhere (Yuuca Mountain?) Cleaning up after this stuff is expensive

So? Would you rather have a small amount of nasty stuff that you have to bury somewhere, or enormous quantities of pollutants pumped into the air that you have to breathe? How expensive is it to clean up the atmosphere from all these pollutants? Oh that's right, we just don't bother. To compare apples to apples, maybe we should just dump the nuclear waste in a nearby subdivision for free.

I'll take nuclear any day over fossil fuels. How much space does the nuclear waste for an aircraft carrier that just ran 20 years take up? A few 55-gallon drums maybe? Now if the carrier had run on fuel oil like the Kitty Hawk, how much pollution would it have pumped out in those 20 years (plus the pollution of the refueling ships that would be required for it)?

The nuclear sub accidents you mentioned didn't involve accidents with the reactors; the reactors just happened to be on ships that had accidents of another nature. To my knowledge, there was no problem in those ships with any type of lasting radioactive contamination, etc., like with Chernobyl.

Korea

[SgtChaireBourne]

Aren't Thailand and Korea getting "Free" Trade Agreements rammed their {down|up} $ORIFICE ?

IIRC, the Thai one was subject to a lot of protests, so the venue was moved to the US where there are "Free Speech Zones" to handle any Thai with the money and time to fly to the US for a protest.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[cayenne8]

"Time was you could immigrate to Australia. Time was you could own a firearm there."

They don't allow immigration there any more? They don't allow firearm ownership there??!?!?

Wow...I mean, surprises me...most all I see about Oz is the Dundee stuff, and Steve Irwin...and about the outback and all. While I know there are the normal cultural centers and regular cities...with all the vast wild lands, I figured gun ownership would be a given there....

NAFTA is dead.

[Anonymous Coward]

To be even more specific, Canada won every round in every court that mattered, INCLUDING the WTO and the NAFTA arbitration panel (that consists of 2 Americans and 1 Canadian). Unfortunately for our lumber industry, winning in court has no effect on the USA since they have shown they are totally willing to simply ignore the results if they do not fall in their favour. The current conservative government is more concerned with sucking up to the Americans than they are about protecting the interests of Canada, so they are ramming the agreement through, and the industry and provinces are pissed off but reluctantly agreed in order to get some semblance of normalcy back to the market.

Ultimately, however, I suspect that the lumber situation will mean the end of NAFTA. The conservatives under Harper have demonstrated a distinct lack of backbone when dealing with the USA, so are unlikely to be elected in their current form, and pretty much every other party has declared that they want NAFTA renegotiated. What is the point of having an "arbitration panel" if the USA simply ignores their decisions?

shame is good

[Ender Ryan]

Shame can be an instigator of change. If everyone who was ashamed of the actions of our country left, then the problems would only get worse. Just because someone is ashamed to be an American, does not mean they want to leave. On the contrary, many want to stay so they can make a difference.

you're 100% wrong, see above

[Ender Ryan]

you're 100% wrong, see above comments above

Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[kinglink]

Blinding blaming Bush for everything our Goverment does gets old after a while. The DMCA was done in 1998, yet Bush has been blamed for that. EUCA (European DMCA) was done based on a trade agreement of 1996 by the WIPO.

We made a Free trade agreement with Australia that effectively says you must conformed to the decisions of this group. Remember that President Bush didn't write this all himself, he didn't sign this law himself. Australian goverment and our own congress approved this law too, John Kerry was also a huge supporter (supposidly).

But continue to call on Bush alone as if no one else but him did any of this.

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[Grishnakh]

It doesn't matter who else supposedly agreed to it. If Bush signed the trade agreement, he ultimately deserves a large share of the blame. The whole purpose of requiring the President (1 man) to sign new Bills into law (which are created by hundreds of people in Congress) is to serve as a check against the power of Congress, and prevent them from passing bad laws. He failed in his responsibility here.

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[kinglink]

So it's all Bush's fault, while Kerry would have signed it as well. It's all bush's fault because over 200 other people voted for it. It's all Bush's fault because instead of vetoing the bill for one minor thing which he probably didn't have a strong feeling on he signed a law that will promote the economy in America.

That's right, let's ignore every elected official but the head one because none of them ever do anything except write most of the legislation, promote it, vote on it, debate it, rewrite it and finally send it to the President.

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[Grishnakh]

Remember "The Buck Stops Here"? Yes, the head person is ultimately responsible for everything that goes wrong. Deal with it. Being the boss means you can't blame all your problems on your subordinates.

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[ClioCJS]

How is this GWB's fault? 'It was not until early 2001, after the election of George W. Bush in the US and with John Howard in power in Australia, that a US-Australia FTA finally began to take shape. In April 2001, President Bush signalled his interest in pursuing an FTA with Australia provided "everything is on the table".' [..............] 'the text was finally agreed to in February 2004, and signed off on by Australian Trade Minister Mark Vaile and [Bush appointee] US Trade Representative Robert Zoellick in Washington in May 2004.' (Source Wikipedia, but unless you can find something to contradict, I'm going with it.) All Congress got to do was ratify the agreement as negotiated. Sorry boys, but you most definitely can blame Bush. reposted from someone else here becuase i thought it was a good argument

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[kinglink]

The problem is you can blame Bush all you want, but Kerry would have done the same thing, as would most presidents. Congress can say no the president, they've done it multiple times, but this bill sounds like it didn't even squeak through congress. I don't see anything about who penned each line but I don't think only 2 or three people were talking about this for 3 years, and congress had nothing to do with it. If you look at the article on wikipedia there's a fairly lengthy amount of provisions, I doubt they all were Bush's primary concerns.

And don't worry about the wikipedia source I won't bitch about that considering I use that as a primary source more than enough.

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[Brandybuck]

Doesn't Australia get ANY of the blame for this? Shouldn't someone in Australia be getting at LEAST 50% of the blame for signing this treaty? Shouldn't someone in Australia get ALL 100% of the blame for this proposed *Australian* legislation?

I know it's the fashionable thing to blame Bush for everything, but don't take it to ridiculous extremes!

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[Grishnakh]

Yes, of course Australia gets 50% of the blame for this (a trade agreement between two countries means both countries should take equal blame I think).

Bush gets blame for signing off on this stupid trade agreement, which is basically requiring that Australia (and any other country that signs a similar agreement with the US) change their laws to "harmonize" with our own crappy laws. Besides, why is it that the other countries need to harmonize with OUR laws? Why can't we harmonize with THEIRS?

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[AlphaWolf_HK]

To add to that, the DMCA was anacted as part of our entering the WIPO treaty, which was based on the Berne convention, which is european in origin. Truth be told the WIPO treaty demands even more than the DMCA provides. In fact every time you hear about a "Super DMCA" it is really just another country falling more in line with the WIPO treaty than the US actually does. The WTO is also ultimately responsible for why we have 90 year copyrights now.

Re:Right... because Bush Started the DMCA.

[drsmithy]

Besides, why is it that the other countries need to harmonize with OUR laws? Why can't we harmonize with THEIRS?

Trust me, you wouldn't have wanted to harmonise with Australia's copyright laws.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Larch]

You can still immigrate. It's mostly easier and quicker to immigrate to than say Canada.

You can still own a firearm. Certain types of firearms are illegal though. Think anything assault weapon/auto/semi-auto or pistol. Firearms are obviously useful for farmers for example, but no farmer needs to mow down a field of sickly cows with an AK-47.

I don't think most Australians feel the need to carry firearms for protection or otherwise. I don't think some Americans are able to understand that so they go nuts over it.

The way to deal with this is

[Simonetta]

The way to deal with this is to either organize like in the old union workshop days of the 20th century or to more likely come to an understanding that any one of 'our people' (defined by us) is simply not subject to any adverse consequences of not following the copyright laws. This is a difficult concept to convey because 'we' have no real political power and this is basically a politcal issue.

    But it starts with the deeply radical thought that 'we', the technological elite of the world, are 'immune' to the consequences of any laws concerning technology that 'we' don't agree with. Once enough of 'us', regardless of our nationality or political status, come to an unspoken agreement amongst ourselves that this is the way that it is going to be, then we can decide amongst ourselves what (if any) punishment should be allocated to our people by our people for enjoying the world's culture through file sharing and other technological means.

    This again is a deeply radical concept because it assumes that the technological elite of the world (that's us, folks) will not be subservient to national or corporate laws that govern the application of technology. Currently it is assumed by the political and corporate forces of the world that the people who create, design, program, and operate technology are subject to the same whims of the politicians and CEOs as are all the other peasants, er, excuse me, consumers.

    As you realise as a Slashdaughter, that is not exactly true. We need to define and conceptualize among ourselves the extent that we, as a new class in the new world order, will allow ourselves to be subjected to the whims of the CEOs, dumb-as-dirt politicians, and other Luddites. You see they can't really continue to rule as they currently do without our co-operation.

    They depend on the technology that we create for them. That makes them limited in the extent that they can use this technology against us.

    These discussions about DRM and the RIAA/MPAA on Slashdot are a sign that we, as the world's technological elite, are beginning to recognize this situation for what it really is.

Re:The way to deal with this is

[scum-e-bag]

The way to deal with this is to either organize like in the old union workshop days of the 20th century

Razor1911, fairlight, drink or die, core, Pirates With Attitude, rise, ucf, etc, etc, etc are the modern day union leaders...

But it starts with the deeply radical thought that 'we', the technological elite of the world, are 'immune' to the consequences of any laws concerning technology that 'we' don't agree with. Once enough of 'us', regardless of our nationality or political status, come to an unspoken agreement amongst ourselves that this is the way that it is going to be, then we can decide amongst ourselves what (if any) punishment should be allocated to our people by our people for enjoying the world's culture through file sharing and other technological means.

Many of us already take action. Many of us are educating the less intelligent about using p2p; and convincing them it is not wrong at the same time. +ORC and his HCU (while now getting a little dated) is an excellent way to educate the more intelligent end user.

As for punishment... if enough people dissent, then the laws will not be enforcable.

Obliged to 'Introduce'?

[The Raven]

They're obliged to introduce it, due to fair trade agreements... but are they obliged to PASS it?

Overrated

[Sparr0]

Overrated signifies that the score of a post is too high, without giving any specific reason WHY it is too high. It is usually used to counter +1 Funny if a post is not humorous, because there is not a -1 Unfunny. 100% Overrated would indicate that at least 3 people (I think) Rated your 1, then 0, then -1 rated post as -1 Overrated, which means that the consensus of the moderators is that the post in question does not even deserve a -1, but they cannot force it lower than that.

Re:Overrated

[KDR_11k]

No, overrated lowers the score but moderations that push a post outside of the -1..5 range are not allowed.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Grishnakh]

I don't think most Australians feel the need to carry firearms for protection or otherwise. I don't think some Americans are able to understand that so they go nuts over it.

Australia doesn't have a crime problem? We certainly do here in the USA.

Guns are mostly illegal in Britain too, but Britain actually has a higher crime rate than the USA, especially in the area of muggings. The lack of gun ownership doesn't seem to be helping them much, unless you somehow consider a criminal's life to be of equal worth to a victim's.

Australia isn't thinking of banning pointed knives is it? They're talking about it in Britain now.

General purpose computers

[CustomDesigned]

"while those guilty of distributing enabling devices and services to others through a variety of means"
you mean like.. computers?

Like general purpose computers. A literal interpretation of this law says only "trusted" computers and operating systems (as in TCP with Windows) can legally be sold. User programmable machines are "enabling" devices. I hope you Aussies like the Microsoft OS.

Just say no to the USA

[cdn-programmer]

Oz can sign a free trade agreement with Canada. To HELL with the USA and their stupid and self serving DMCA type legislation and software patents.

The world ignored their stupidity on the non-reprocessing of nuclear fuels which has created a backlog of spent fuel (Europe and Japan reprocess and have been for decades).

This spent fuel contains literally 100's of years of energy which will sorely be needed in a few years. Note that spent fuel contains about 1% Pu and 1% U235 which is 2% fissle. Contrast this to natural U which contains 0.7% U235 = fissle. A Candu can burn natural U so it certainly can be configured to burn spent U after the nuclear poisons have been removed. Since there are over 100 (enriched) reactors in the USA and they have been running for about 50 years it follows that the spend fuel can be used in a fleet of about 100 Candu style reactors for several decades. Note that spent fuel is less than about 2% nuclear poisons. The remaining 98% can be stuffed right back into reactors after processing. The reason the USA didn't want reprocessing in part is because Texas oil would not have been worth much if there were a viable nuclear industry. Another reason is that anti-nuclear folks wanted a big pile of waste to point fingers at and what better way to get a big pile of waste than to prevent its use.

As oil prices soar above $70** bux per barrel it would do people well to look into nuclear energy and especially the Integral Fast Reactor (see Wikipedia, and check the IFR talk pages too). There is enough fuel already mined for 1000's of years of power production and there are no long term wastes. IE. We've all been lied to by self serving USA pollies.

**Note: Matt Simmons suggests oil may be over $350 per barrel before long - Translate that into the cost of filling your tank!

The point is these short sighted self serving liars are continuing and now we hear them in the area of Digital Rights Managment and Software Patents. So just tell the Yanks to stay home.

BTW - the Vietnam war is another example of when the Yanks should have been told to stay home. I sure hope the growing strife in the middle east which clearly is over access to their oil will not turn into another Vietnam.

Well...

[ClioCJS]

I didn't vote for Bush. And I'm not voting democrat again.. ever. At which point your argument will be moot, with respect to me, as far as I am concerned.

Not a back scratch

[cdn-programmer]

Those were not backs you were scratching. You were lied to by USA pollies again.

Name change

[Frederico Camara]

The name of this section on SlashDot is "Your Rights", right?
Right.

So, why is it that things like this end up posted here? Wouldn't it be fit to make a new category like "So Much For... Your Rights", "There Goes... Your Rights", "R.I.P. Your Rights", or "In Loving Memory Of... Your Rights".

More news like this and anytime soon, SlashDot will have to post: "Sorry, we're closing this section because you have no Rights left to be discussed here."

BTW, somebody should make a chronology of Rights we lost over the years, I think it would make a great poster, if we still could have the right to print it then.

Right?

The sheeple will only know when.....

[speedlaw]

The sheeple will only know when they fire up that new Vista box, and try to copy a CD, and see "Operation denied-copyright restriction". Then, you will see a sudden mass interest in DRM...at which point it will be too late.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[dbIII]

Time was you could own a firearm there

There are still firearms other than military ordinance and loaded easily concealable handguns under your pillow. People still have handguns - they just need to keep them locked in a box when they are not using them and keep the ammo somewhere else.

Also civilians don't really need an AK47 or an Armalite so such things were limited to military use after someone used an automatic rifle to kill at lot of people at a tourist venue. You don't need an automatic rifle to shoot wild pigs and no-one should be shooting at crocodiles anyway.

Agree to be a criminal

[forgetmenot]

There is one solution to this. Ignore the law. If your government wants to make you a criminal then embrace your criminality. Put the financial burden of enforcement and prosecution on them and their corporate sponsors. I used to believe that way to protest things like this was to exercise your vote but... that just doesn't work, at least not by itself. No.. I think if you don't like the way you're governed, you have to refuse to be governed.

Case in point: In Canada we had a retarded gun registry that made criminals overnight out of the better part of the rural west including most of my family. Needless to say, the law was ignored and amongst the members of my family alone we've probably got enough firepower for a small army - all "illegal". We were not the only ones by a long shot.

And the governments attempts to "bring people on board" gradually went from pathetic to laughable. It was a well known fact that the majority of gun-owners refused to register their firearms and the government spent millions on ad-campaigns trying to encourage registration, almost begging actually. Their credibility pretty much hanged on compliance. Then the deadlines kept getting extended....

Well, billions of wasted dollars later the long-arm portion of the registry is finally being scrapped by the new conservative governement. There's not a lot of fanfare approving of the dismantlement because quite frankly it was never a big issue out west. We just ignored it and as a consequence it didn't impact our lives in any way.

Granted...there's a difference in a law requiring active participation to do something versus a law that makes it illegal to do something, but the point is this: Western democratic governments may sometimes pass inane legislation, but most (I hope?) are faily loathe to actually criminalize any substantial part of their constituency. So really... if you find a law objectionable and not obeying it doesn't actually harm anyone... then just refuse to let it affect your life in any way.

And don't forget to vote. Probably won't change anything by itself but you'll feel better knowing the bastards didn't get *your* vote.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[dbIII]

Australia isn't thinking of banning pointed knives is it?

If you are one of a group of kids with knives that look like you are waiting for drunks to come past and be robbed the police will throw the book at you. If you are a guy in medieval clothes with a real six foot long sword playing games they don't. It's probably similar to the USA where you can be charged with possession of a weapon even if the weapon is a telephone (Russel Crowe).

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Grishnakh]

Sorry, no. Britian is actually talking about banning ALL pointed knives, as in prohibiting their manufacture or importation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

I don't know just how likely it is that they will be banned, but it is being talked about, including by people in the government. Even worse, according to the article, 17 types of knives are already banned. So does that mean I can't have a nice Bowie knife or even a switchblade there? It's perfectly legal for me to own these knives where I live.

Reading TFA

[Doyle]

FTS:

...making it illegal... to hack a DVD player to make it multi-region...

FTA:

...will not apply to region code controls...

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[pommiekiwifruit]

Oh great, you want australia to go back to the "white australia" policy where immigration was based on your race, instead of the points based system they have at the moment? If you can't get in at the moment, go back to school and learn a useful skill. Don't treat your skin colour as a meal ticket. BTW, very nice calendar.

(says pommiekiwifruit who got into the EU via... ancestry... oops)

Thanks, George??

[iminplaya]

You blame a hand puppet? That's like blaming the weatherman for a hurricane. You give him way too much credit. Look in the mirror, folks. I don't see any real change in voting trends here. You can expect more of the same, and worse until you put a stop to it.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[dangitman]

Australia doesn't have a violent crime that resembles the US. The biggest problem is white-collar crime, and corruption on behalf of politicans and executives. There isn't very much violent crime. If anything, widespred ownership of weapons would make it worse.

Of course, the US is also full of corporate crime and corruption, but also has a high level of violent crime to add injury to insult.

Otherwise why would the US want to trade with Aust

[mwc28]

/flamebait /tinfoil-hat /asbestos-undies

Sure this makes sense, without any oil why would the USA otherwise want to trade with Australia.

Makes sense that they try to force their brain dead laws on their partners^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H minions

Everyone in this part of the world knows that Howard is Bushes whipping boy.

Bush probably only had to cough and Howard would do anything he wanted, whats next extend the USAs brain dead patent system into Australia .......

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Grishnakh]

Does Australia not have a large underclass with big drug and poverty problems? You're right in that the US has both corporate/political crime and corruption and also violent crime, but the two are really committed by totally different groups of people, and except for the fact that they might share the same roads occasionally, they might as well live on two different planets.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Xiroth]

Time was you could immigrate to Australia.
Some juicy pieces from the relevent Wikipedia article:
(In a country of 20 million) Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone said that between 130,000 and 140,000 non-humanitarian migrants would be taken, with a skilled migrant component of 97,500.
The United Nations High Commission for Refugees estimates that Australia took 16,000 refugees through its resettlement program. This is the second largest program in the world after that of the United States and Australia takes 19% of those refuges being assisted by the UNHCR.

Australia has only itself to blame for its protectionism
Actually, over the last 30 years Australia has reduced its protectionist policies to the point where it is now one of the most open economies of all developed nations*. Which was why Australia couldn't get many concessions in the US-Aus FTA - they had little to offer which wasn't already available already.

*Unprocessed grown food excepted: There are strict rules on importing natural foods as there are relatively few agriculture dieseases in Australia and the idea is to keep it that way.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Xiroth]

Here's a few things that blow most yank's minds:

• It is illegal to beg in Australia. You rarely see people living in the streets, as housing is provided to them.
• The welfare you get when you're unemployed is easily enough to live on. Nonetheless, the unemployment rate is only ~5%.
• With very few people owning a gun, the homicide rate in Austalia is 1.6 for every 100,000. The homicide rate in the US is ~5 for every 100,000.

The majority of the drug problem here seems to be centred around the party scene - young people with too much dispensible income popping pills in nightclubs and shooting up in private parties.

The gaping exception to this are the aboriginal communities (generally geographically secluded from the others): more often than not there is poverty, booze, drugs and violence all round. They get given cars, they sell it for crack. They get houses built for them, they riddle them with holes. They don't work even if work is available, they don't show much desire to get an education (people of aboriginal descent get free tertiary education, but you rarely see them there). Not particularly surprisingly, the many governments over the years who have tried to solve the problem by throwing money at it have all been less than successful. There have yet to be any solid suggestions for a real solution, however. Aboriginals make up about 2.5% of the population, though almost all of them live in the Northern Territory.

Most people find it easy to ignore that issue, though, since those aboriginals who live in the cities are rarely like those in the remove communities described above (although still have a higher crime rate). For the vast majority of people, life is pretty good.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Grishnakh]

It is illegal to beg in Australia. You rarely see people living in the streets, as housing is provided to them.

Wow, this would be a real problem for our college students. Take a trip to any college town these days, and you'll find kids sitting around and begging because they think it's "cool". I just tell them to get a job. It's a disgrace.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[drsmithy]

Australia doesn't have a crime problem?

No. (Despite numerous and frequent attempts by alarmist media trying to convince us otherwise). Crime is very low in Australia, violent crime even less so.

Guns are mostly illegal in Britain too, but Britain actually has a higher crime rate than the USA, especially in the area of muggings. The lack of gun ownership doesn't seem to be helping them much, unless you somehow consider a criminal's life to be of equal worth to a victim's.

The main difference vis-a-vis "muggings" is, in the UK you get beaten up, while in the US you get shot and killed.

Bullshit

[lordperditor]

So a DVD manufacturer make a DVD player where I can for example press:
STOP 74298 STOP

and make my DVD player multi region, and by doing so I break the law.
Why hasn't the manufacturer broke the law by having that routine in its player in the first place? uhhh!!!

How to email your federal MP

[violet16]

I emailed my federal member of parliament about this. He replied the next day.

All you need to do is say that you live in their electorate and you disagree with this legislation. This is our last chance to block DMCA-style law.

Aussies, get your MP's email addy here!

Re:How to email your federal MP

[IWannaBeAnAC]

Unfortunately, that cannot have any effect, it is already a done deal. The FTA has already been signed!

The only possibility is to attempt to renegotiate the FTA. No chance in hell of Johnny doing that, and extremely unlikely Labor would do it either in my opinion. Section 8 of the FTA (intellectual property) was all about Johnny bending over to the US media conglomerates, with the complicity of the Australian media conglomerates (which, by and large, are indistinguishable). That is why there was zero mainstream media interest in section 8 during the FTA 'negotiations', although I don't know anyone who read it and was not horrified by it.

The really sad thing is, we got absolutely nothing in return. The Aust. government could probably have bargained a much better deal on, eg, agriculture or mining in exchange for greasing up for section 8, but instead it was presented as a fait acompli and not a part of the serious negotiations.

Johnny loves strolling about the whitehouse lawn with George so much, he sold out his country to do it. Unfortunately, on the federal level, the Labor party is not much of an alternative, and I doubt they have any real chance of winning the next election anyway (at least not with Beazley in the lead). In short, Australia is screwed. The best chance for Australia probably lies in New Zealand; if they can continue to resist imperialism (even if half-heartedly), then in a decade or two if the Australian political climate changes favourably then there will be a regional role-model to follow.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[Grishnakh]

The main difference vis-a-vis "muggings" is, in the UK you get beaten up, while in the US you get shot and killed.

Perhaps, but from what I read the rate of muggings in the UK is quite high. While it does happen here in the US, it's really not that common.

Sounds like the UK needs more people like Paul Kersey.

More information

[violet16]

It's certainly not too late to affect the specific provisions of this law. The Attorney-General's office is currently calling for comments on it. We can influence what it ends up looking like.

I found some more good links:

• The press release from the Attorney-General (entitled "GOOD NEWS FOR CONSUMERS, BAD NEWS FOR PIRATES")
• A comprehensive summary of the draft law, including links to the actual text.

One very interesting provision is this:

The scope of the scheme is limited to preventing circumvention of TPMs designed to stop copyright piracy. The scheme will not cover TPMs which are not designed to prevent or inhibit people from infringing copyright. The scheme will not apply to TPMs solely designed for other purposes, such as market segmentation (eg region coding) or the protection against competition in aftermarket goods (eg spare parts) where the TPM does not have a connection with copyright.

Comments will be accepted until Monday 25th Sep 2006.

Re:FTA - yup!

[RyatNrrd]

Australia: this is your glittering prize for sending your soldeiers to Iraq. Howard gets invited to "The Ranch", George passes laws in your country, you are required to abolish all your import tarrifs; and in return, um.

Um.

Great work. Well done.

Re:Australia's come a long way since the 1970s

[pommiekiwifruit]

Perhaps, but from what I read the rate of muggings in the UK is quite high.

But that includes kids stealing other kids lunch money. I'm not sure you record that the same way, and I wouldn't want to arm kids on their way to school.

Bargain!

[Cyanara]

Wow, and all we had to do to secure this fabulous Free Trade Agreement was send a bunch of our people to die in some foreign desert! Bargain at twice the price!

But, in australia they must actually be...

[riprjak]

...circumvented with the intention of gaining commercial advantage or profit to be an offence.

And our judges will require them to ACTUALLY BE TPM's; legal precedent here is already clear that region coding, for example, is *NOT* a TPM but rather an illegal barrier to trade.

There is still debate about the specific implementation, but the judicial review has clearly indicated that the offences "...which mimic the infringing acts identified above, but for the addition of the action being done "with the intention of obtaining a commercial advantage or profit"."

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200609051 04554107 Groklaw had a good discussion of the exposure draft.

Panic is fun, but facts are better.
err!
jak.

Amazing!

[ockegheim]

However some exceptions will apply to educational institutions and libraries, where an access control TPM damages a product or is obsolete, lost or damaged, and will not apply to region code controls, according to Minter Ellison.

Wow, someone in the government has bought a DVD player!