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Plasma: The Next-Generation KDE Environment Review

slashy writes, "MadPenguin has taken a quick look at Plasma, the next gen. KDE environment. 'Plasma is an ambitious project being pursued by the KDE 4 team which aims at providing a workflow-sensitive design of the user interface that improves productivity of an average KDE user. The focus is on improving the clarity and reducing the clutter present in today's desktops. The plasma development will bring together key contributors, such as the visual artists, usability experts, technology experts, programmers, and enthusiasts at a very early stage during the development process. This will enable them to create a new desktop environment that meets the requirements of novices and experts alike.'"

47 of 240 comments (clear)

  1. Reducing clutter by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Let me start by saying that I have been waiting for KDE 4 since it was first announced, mainly because of it's lower memory requirements.

    Having said that, I have found that most people will clutter their desktops regardless of what the software tries to do. Remember XP's desktop cleanup wizard, which attempted to help people remove things from their desktops that they didn't use often? I still see the majority of people with hundreds of icons and files haphazardly arranged. When I helped my friend migrate to Linux, it only took him a week to turn KDE into an icon pile. Add Firefox into the mix, which drops downloads onto the desktop by default, and the battle is completely lost.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Reducing clutter by tolan-b · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think they mean UI clutter rather than clutter of the desktop 'surface'.

    2. Re:Reducing clutter by LLuthor · · Score: 5, Informative

      QT 3's internal data structures are quite bloated and require a lot of memory. In QT4 a lot of bloat has been removed or trimmed, and a number of things can now share memory where previously they had each their own copies.

      Simply re-compiling a trivial GUI app from QT3 to QT4 will give noticable performance and memory usage improvement (even if you do not change the code at all).

      Not to mention the other improvements in things like MOC which make debugging and testing easier.

      --
      LL
    3. Re:Reducing clutter by nostriluu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the metaphor for the "desktop" is, ahem, a "desktop".. an intermediate place with stuff you haven't put away yet, or are actively working on, resides.

      Just putting everything in your home folder /would/ be a disaster.

      Of course, it's nice to have multiple desktops, so when you're working on a different task you can just go to a different desk.

      Hmm.. doesn't seem like you can change the Mac's desktop on the fly.

    4. Re:Reducing clutter by TommydCat · · Score: 3, Funny
      Simply re-compiling a trivial GUI app from QT3 to QT4 will give noticable performance and memory usage improvement (even if you do not change the code at all).

      # emerge --update --newuse world

      ...and the Gentoo crowd goes wild!

      --
      This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
    5. Re:Reducing clutter by davFr · · Score: 5, Informative

      AFAIK, there is no way to compile directly Qt3 applications to Qt4. The Qt4 does not support all previous Qt3 widgets, and their is no automatic and efficient way to transform Qt3 code to Qt4. That said, Qt4 is certainly more memory efficient than Qt3, as it was the main development goal. My 2 cents.

      --
      RIP Slashdot. I used to love you. dead account - but slashdot wont let me delete it.
    6. Re:Reducing clutter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      # emerge --update --newuse world
      ...and the Gentoo crowd goes wild!


      Well, they have plenty of time to go wild now.

    7. Re:Reducing clutter by SevenHands · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are there people who actually have used this functionality? I have not used this features once yet. Features like this and the "Hide inactive icons" in the system tray seem like they may end up doing more harm than good possibly getting rid of certain needed info or hiding an unwanted automatically started process.. For me, I like to see all of my system tray Icons, including the "inactive" ones, just so I have a partial idea of what's running in the background without having to go through the process listing in the task manager.

    8. Re:Reducing clutter by Psiren · · Score: 5, Informative
      The Qt4 does not support all previous Qt3 widgets

      There is a Qt3 support library in Qt4. It does look like some renaming of classes will be required, but I'd imagine any small codebase could be converted reasonably quickly.
    9. Re:Reducing clutter by Jesselnz · · Score: 4, Funny
    10. Re:Reducing clutter by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll settle for a middle ground: it just randomly picks things.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    11. Re:Reducing clutter by Zantetsuken · · Score: 3, Interesting

      somebody said in another post somewhere beneath the top of this thread:

      "toss in firefox which automatically sets downloads to the desktop, and the battle is lost"

      maybe it would help if in firefox's initial setup wizard, it prompted where you want downloads to go to - somewhere like My Documents\Downloads for Windows, and somewhere like /home/username/downloads/ for Linux with the option to change directories...

    12. Re:Reducing clutter by cp.tar · · Score: 2, Insightful
      maybe it would help if in firefox's initial setup wizard, it prompted where you want downloads to go to - somewhere like My Documents\Downloads for Windows, and somewhere like /home/username/downloads/ for Linux with the option to change directories...

      It is possible to change the default download directory rather easily... and there are extensions which help you filter and sort downloads so you can send .mp3 to ~/music, .mpg to ~/video and .doc to ~/trash.

      AFAIK downloading everything to desktop by default is a feature, not a bug: most users download something, then get confused as to where the bloody thing went. This way, they only have to search their desktop.

      Therefore, no initial setup is required... do it after installing; you know where to find it, and you don't confuse the (l)users with complexities.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    13. Re:Reducing clutter by nschubach · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's nice to see someone publicly displaying the use of cracks, roms and serial numbers. Oh, I suppose he owns all that software...my mistake.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    14. Re:Reducing clutter by nschubach · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's the only reason I run Active Desktop at work. One icon. The Recycle Bin. The only reason I have that there is to remind me to empty it every night. If only I had a trash can icon on my garage door.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    15. Re:Reducing clutter by Knuckles · · Score: 3, Informative

      Remember XP's desktop cleanup wizard, which attempted to help people remove things from their desktops that they didn't use often?

      Oh yes, very well. It is among the worst pieces of idiocy created in the name of helping inexperienced users I know. Apparently it is purely date-driven and disregards the existence of actual user sessions during the time span it waits until moving the user's files from the desktop into a subfolder. The result was that my mum, who often does not log in for a month and more, called me everytime she did log in, saying "I don't know what happened. All the files I created last time are gone." That is, until I visited and disabled it of course.

      The fact that this hopelessly thoughtless implementation did not help users to be more organized is no proof that users are hopeless.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    16. Re:Reducing clutter by snoyberg · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sure... sure.. you "friend"

      --
      Thank God for evolution.
  2. A quick look? by ledow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A quick look is somewhat understating the review - not a single screenshot and 8 paragraphs of next-to-nothing except what "will" or "should" be in Plasma.

    Useful content: 1%

    Like the "Buy a Link Now" on the article itself... I think someone just bought themselves a link from Slashdot.

    1. Re:A quick look? by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I do have to wonder what that review was? Wouldn't preview be a better term. I mean to review something it has to exist, which KDE 4 doesn't yet.
      I can honestly say I like BOTH gnome and KDE. I prefer to work in gnome but KDE is prettier and frankly more fun.
      With KDE I created a totally useless script that pulls down a few images from some websites using wget. I then set the KDE desktop to use a slide show background. So now have a wall paper that rotates through two hi resolution webcam shots of a local beach and the weather radar.
      Like I said fun but useless. To get Gnome to do the same I am thinking of writing a desklet.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:A quick look? by Krondor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Can you spell 'vapourware'?

      Sure, no problem. Vaporware.

      (Yes I had to)

  3. Re:active desktop by LeRandy · · Score: 5, Informative

    No. SuperKaramba will be built in (think Apple OSX Widgets). So your calendar, inbox contents, local weather, PC stats, whatever can be displayed on your desktop. Active Desktop was IIRC just a way of putting HTML or Animations on the desktop - they weren't programs per-se, that could tell you useful stuff.

  4. Re:huh? by ledow · · Score: 3, Informative

    Content: nil
    Useful information: nil
    Reviews of implemented features: nil
    Screenshots: nil
    What it "will" be: 8 paragraphs spread over two pages for no other reason than to increase advertising revenue.
    How they're going to do it: nil
    Useful links: nil

  5. the grass is always greener by rayde · · Score: 3, Insightful
    (i am not trolling here, this is just my observation) i think most linux fans fall into one of two camps. Those who want Gnome and KDE to stop doing parallel efforts and instead concentrate on a unified GUI for linux... and then those who appreciate having more choices and want KDE and Gnome to push each other.

    I fall into the former. I think it's a pain when you see some cool feature or eyecandy or whatever appearing in the desktop environment you aren't using... but it isn't enough to make you totally switch your current desktop. And just when you do go and switch, your old environment will come out with some sweet feature and you're back to square one.

    i realize it's a complicated issue, and neither KDE nor Gnome is about to fold and allow the other to take precidence... but I still look forward to the day when everyone is working towards a common goal, and when a new user interface element is implemented, everybody can benefit from it.

    1. Re:the grass is always greener by lawpoop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I used to think that 'duplication' was just a waste of effort. Wouldn't it be better if we all put our effort together in harmony and came up with the Next Big Thing? United we stand, divided we fall?

      The problem is, when your working on a huge monolithic project like that, people really don't work together. There are arguments and disagreements. Energetical people with radical, new ideas will encounter old farts who want to do things the old way, become disenfranchised and give up. Productive old workhorses will be frustrated by young upstarts trying to pull them in 100 different directions at once, selling a bad idea from 10 years ago as the latest, greatest idea. The project will proceed on the lowest common denominator, implementing vanilla ideas that are promoted simply because nobody could find a reason to reject them.

      Would you like it if Apple and MS got together to make a unified desktop? Don't you think that the bureaucracy and organizational overhead would stymie the project and ultimately water down the end result?

      Instead of waste and duplication, think of it as parallel development teams, developing, implementing, and polishing the latest new ideas as a presentation to the larger mindshare market. Those ideas might need to re-developed or re-implemented, or they may be ready to be included in larger projects, like KDE or Gnome. It's a very effective and efficient way to harness human motivation and inspiration and deliver new ideas to the masses.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    2. Re:the grass is always greener by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      Those who want Gnome and KDE to stop doing parallel efforts and instead concentrate on a unified GUI for linux...

      And all you'd have to do is get the other few dozen GUI projects on board as well. In the meantime you can work on unifying Apple and Microsoft, a much easier task.

      KFG

    3. Re:the grass is always greener by alexgieg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I really want to know is why, oh, WHY, both Gnome and KDE waste so much usefull screen space.

      I'm serious. Now and then I install one or the other in a VM in my XP box, set to the same resolution as XP itself, and watch the state of the default menus, menu items distance, drop-downs, font sizes etc. For some reason I can't grasp, they're always bigger and more wastefull than what Microsoft made with XP. And as a result, I always feel my CRT had just lost one or two inches.

      I wonder whether you all who use these system feel the same thing, but in reverse, with XP's screen objects seen as too small.

      PS.: I've never tried MacOS, but that bar of big buttons I see in screenshots spells trouble for me. But if those who use it love it so much, then I guess that either my CRT is too small, I'm a screen-space maniac, or both. Who knows? :D

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    4. Re:the grass is always greener by Quasar+Sera · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think it's a pain when you see some cool feature or eyecandy or whatever appearing in the desktop environment you aren't using... but it isn't enough to make you totally switch your current desktop. And just when you do go and switch, your old environment will come out with some sweet feature and you're back to square one.
      Let's say for argument's sake that Gnome and KDE are the only GUI choices for Linux and that they are (magically) totally merged tomorrow. Of course, by definition, the problem you outlined above is never going to occur -- there is only one environment. But that doesn't remotely imply that you're going to get twice as many cool features and eye candy. It doesn't even imply that you wouldn't get, overall, 1/16 the amount of cool features and eye candy. I don't have data to back this argument up, but it seems to me that the existence of competing (but fairly compatible) standards is one of the major forces driving innovation in Linux GUIs. How much have Gnome and KDE changed in the last few years? How about the Windows GUI? Just something to consider.
    5. Re:the grass is always greener by ElleyKitten · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Those who want Gnome and KDE to stop doing parallel efforts and instead concentrate on a unified GUI for linux... and then those who appreciate having more choices and want KDE and Gnome to push each other.
      I'm in the latter. Competition is good for almost everything. Without the competition, why would they bother to innovate (think about IE6)? Also, being separate, KDE and GNOME (and XFCE, and Fluxbox, and...) will innovate in different directions, so you have options and are not herded into what "most people" like (if you liked what "most people" like, you'd be using Windows XP anyways).

      Anyways, it's trivial in most distros to install and use both. In Ubuntu, type sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, and KDE is an option in the options menu on the log in screen. Consult your distro's wiki, and try a different desktop just for fun.
      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
  6. The article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Poor poor CMS, the "article" is just some text, full c&p below:

    It has hardly been a few weeks since the release of KDE v3.5.4, one of the most popular desktop environments for Unix/Linux/FreeBSD operating systems, and the KDE development team is already hard at work. They have a dream of revolutionizing the concept of desktop by providing an array of innovative features aimed at improving both the looks of the desktop environment as well as the productivity of end users. In this article, we will look at one such component called Plasma that promises to change the look and feel of a conventional desktop.

    Plasma is an ambitious project being pursued by the KDE 4 team which aims at providing a workflow sensitive design of the user interface that improves productivity of an average KDE user. The focus is on improving the clarity and reducing the clutter present in today's desktops. The plasma development will bring together key contributors, such as the visual artists, usability experts, technology experts, programmers and enthusiasts at a very early stage during the development process. This will enable them to create a new desktop environment that meets the requirements of novice and experts alike.

    One of the immediate goals of plasma is to provide a better looking desktop. The team is cashing in on the improved graphic capabilities of X server (namely COMPOSITE) and Trolltech's Qt application programming interfaces (APIs) to mesmerize you with those stunning looks. Although a great looking desktop will be a welcome step, the KDE team is not assuming that everyone will have the latest version of X server installed. Thus, care is being taken not to make such looks integral to the functioning of the system. Plasma is being designed in such a way that even people with older versions of X server will be able to effectively use their desktops without the unnecessary frills.

    Plasma will be divided into four distinct components. They are:

    - Desktop: In plasma, the role of the desktop will be much more than a place where one keeps beautiful looking icons and immediately required files. In fact, it will be a place for the user and the computer to interact with each other. The desktop will no more be a static entity with a fixed set of icons. Your desktop will be capable of providing different kinds of items and services as and when you need them.

    - Applet: Applets are small programs, such as clocks, weather notification and application launchers (to name a few) that will help you better manage your work. The aim of the plasma team is to make them easy to develop as well as easy to distribute. They can be authored in a plethora of languages including C/C++, Java, Python and Ruby. The team is currently in the process of developing the Application Programming Interfaces (APIs) that will expose the functionality of libplasma library. After developing the applets, they have to be packaged together with all the artwork, HTML and other resource files into a single archive file. This archive file can then easily be distributed over the Internet.

    - Panels: Panels are basically containers for other plasma element. They will be responsible for providing a way to connect applets together.

    - Extenders: Extender is a standard graphic element that provides a plasma element to temporarily grow in size (through some sort of animation) and reveal a larger usable space whenever one clicks or hovers over them. This helps to group related widgets that need not be visible all the time and take up important desktop space. Instead, whenever the user invokes them by means of clicking or hovering, the extender provides a mechanism to reveal the extra information.

    The KDE 4 desktop aims at revolutionizing the concept of a desktop by providing not only an eye-candy look but also a workflow sensitive design. With full support for newer frameworks such as KHotNewStuffs , it will become extremely easy for applications based on KDE to search and download new plugins, extensions and updates from the Internet. According to Zack Rusin, a prominent KDE developer, "Plasma will blow you away. Nothing you've ever seen or will see in the coming years will come even close to what you'll experience with Plasma. And that's a promise." We agree.

  7. ...an icon pile? by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Insightful
    So?

    I thought the whole idea of personal computers was to allow people to work they way they wanted to?

    You may like clean desktops while others like cluttered desktops.

    Let's start a holy war over how many icons can dance on a screen.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  8. Re:active desktop by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Informative
    No. SuperKaramba will be built in (think Apple OSX Widgets). So your calendar, inbox contents, local weather, PC stats, whatever can be displayed on your desktop. Active Desktop was IIRC just a way of putting HTML or Animations on the desktop - they weren't programs per-se, that could tell you useful stuff.


    Right. But aren't these things just combinations of XML and Python code? IOW, the grandparent's comment about ActiveDesktop really isn't too far off the mark.
  9. Re:Sounds to me like a rip-off of Vista by kypper · · Score: 3, Funny

    Given that your nick is BushCheney, I'd say that's already happened ;)

  10. Re:New Project - Redo X-Windows by LLuthor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And do what differently?

    Care to point out some deficiency in the X codebase?

    --
    LL
  11. Re:New Project - Redo X-Windows by Andrewkov · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, let's replace it with DirectX running under Wine.

  12. Workflow-sensitive? by TheWoozle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The average user can't figure out how to organize their *own* desktop to accomodate their workflow better than "this pile of icons is for this, that pile of icons is for that", and these guys are going to come along and have the *computer* decide what's best?

    Sheesh, have we learned nothing from Microsoft? Having the computer decide what things a user can interact with and how the user can interact with them based on a set of hidden, unchangeable rules is counter-productive at best; at times, it can be murderous-rage inducing.

    How about we actually help people become better-organized by, oh, I don't know...teaching them some useful organizational skills?!

    --
    Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
    1. Re:Workflow-sensitive? by paulpach · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you have to teach people something, you have already failed. Users Don't Read the Manual. So if your interface expects them to do so, your interface is probably flawed.

      They are not trying to guess what the users might do, they are doing some serious research on it. As a result, they have come up with some great improvements such as kickoff. And their new HIG

      It is not about the computer deciding what is best, quite the opposite, on usability you are supposed to empower the user. The link is from what will become their next HIG. It is pretty safe to say that KDE has allways done well in this particular area.

  13. What I want, part deux by MasterC · · Score: 2, Funny
    You know, I had a thoughtful and insightful list of maybe half-a-dozen things/comments about KDE I would want as a power user. Then KWin seg faulted on me and I had to restart X thus losing my comments.

    My list now consists of one things:
    • Fix KWin from seg faulting

    That would be super!
    --
    :wq
  14. I prefer to design my own desktop by rueger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... which aims at providing a workflow-sensitive design of the user interface that improves productivity of an average KDE user

    My experience with both Windows and OS X is that anytime the OS tries to "help" me it makes life more difficult.

    For me the holy grail of desktop design is one that allows me to place what I want, where I want on the desk top and have it remain exactly where I put it.

    Even better, when I switch from the 12" laptop to the big flat screen on my desk, allow me two desktop settings that make best use of the different real estate available.

    OS X widgets seem like great idea, but I find that the need to pop up or drop into the widget level, and then wait for the actual widgets to load up and begin functioning is a pain in the butt. I'd rather have things like calculators or weather or currency converters right on the desktop and immediately available.

    Apple's solution just seems to add more clicks and more time to do routine tasks.

    If KDE goes the route of trying to guess what I want, please give me the option of turning that guessing game off.

  15. Re:New Project - Redo X-Windows by Xabraxas · · Score: 4, Informative

    we should ditch X-windows altogether. there's really no demanding need, at least in the linux world, for X-windows. sure, one could argue that it's a must in thin-client setups, but the overwhelming majority of linux boxes are not thin clients.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. X is being overhauled as we speak (modularization, GLX implementations, etc), but one thing that is staying is the client/server architecture of X. There is nothing wrong with the way it works on a local computer, and it has the added benefit of being able to work across a network. A myth in the FOSS world is that the client/server architecture of X is one of the biggest problems with Unix.

    --
    Time makes more converts than reason
  16. Re:3D Desktops by Down_in_the_Park · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm not sure if you're just trolling or haven't followed *nix desktop development. But there is a really cool 3d-desktop called xgl based on opengl

    See here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl

    --
    "People who are willing to sacrifice essential freedoms for security deserve neither freedom nor security."

    B F
  17. ./ style by aristolochene · · Score: 2, Funny

    anyone know if it runs on linux?

    --
    echo $SIGNATURE
  18. OS covers.... by Nichole_knc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not to start a debate but as it is my understanding KDE has been for a more "eye-candy" look and Gnome for a more "clean-minimalist" look. I am one of those minimalist types when it comes to the GUI-OS interface. I used Gnome for years on BSD then in Slackware. When Pat dropped Gnome (understand the build issues) I started using KDE with much fuss due to the "clutter". I have hense learned the finer points of advance customization of KDE in much the same way as I had Gnome. And that is my point.. When the KDE crew builds a new UI as long as they maintain advanced user customizable features go for it, it is a good thing. Like any Linux flavor the UI should be customizable in all regards. That is, as many here know one of its appealing aspects.

  19. Plasma is just one part of "Appeal" by mounthood · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    tomorrow who's gonna fuss
  20. Re:Going off KDE by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't give up yet! KDE4 is actually going to be less ressource-intensive than 3, due to major cleanups and enhancements in both Qt4 and the core KDE4 libraries.

  21. Re:Going off KDE by bhalo05 · · Score: 2, Informative

    In my experience, with enough RAM anything over 1Ghz is more than enough to run KDE comfortably. And now, we even know KDE's memory requirements are not so high as many claimed them to be:

    http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/

  22. Re:XGL? by DarkProphet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, you can use Xgl/compiz" with KDE. This works on SuSE 10.1/KDE 3.5.4, but you can probably coax your distro-of-choice to play nice without too much trouble.

    The only thing that sucks is the lack of a GUI configuration window (to my knowledge), so you'll have to edit the compiz config by hand.

    --
    What could possibly hurt the security of the American people more than giving our own government the ability to hide its
  23. Re:Vaporware by bhalo05 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Plasma is the biggest vaporware open-source has ever producted"

    Really... obviously you don't remember the times when things like Bonobo or Orbit were supposed to revolutionize the free desktop. Then came KDE2 along with Kparts and DCOP technologies, making true what others had only hyped. I don't expect it will be different this time, since the KDE project has a tradition of delivering what was promised. The only thing I fear it will not be in KDE4 will be Tenor, since Scott Wheeler has already stated he doesn't know if he will be working on it, but I bet Plasma will be in KDE4.