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An Interview with a Cheater
Dan writes to mention a post at the Aeropause site. Author Richard was recently given the rare opportunity to interview a cheater, shining a light into the dark recesses of a conflicted mind. The article explores why the cheater cheats, and the great excuses they use to be able to look themselves in the mirror. From the article: "Aeropause: What made you decide to mod your Xbox to gain an unfair advantage in games like Halo 2? Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."
I haven't read this article. But from that last sentence of grammar stumbling, I'm not interested in this interview at all. I don't know what Xbox modding is but I'd imagine that Schmuck5000 didn't invent this 'modding' procedure. A lot of times, they just follow some process online and then run around killing people saying "1337 h4Xx00rs pwn you n00bz0rs." I consider these people much less than 'cheaters' although I don't think the names I have for them are for public display.
What about the people who write the code or make the hardware for the mods? You know, the people that actually do all the work? I want to talk to these people who probably don't even use it all that much but just consider it a challenge and then get bored after the challenge is overcome. Game Genie & Game Shark are popularized commercial versions of this but it's not online play. I wish I could talk to the people that reverse engineer the packets sent out using something like Burp or a networking tool that gives them speed hacks. These people work for it while I don't even think their end goal is really to cheat. I kind of have the feeling that they enjoy the cat and mouse game that appearantly Blizzard has won (after rounds of losing) but Xbox Live has lost.
I investigated writing a program that read the memory from video and tried to interpret it using heuristics on what to do in casewise instances. While it might work for some games (like Tetris), 3D emersion worlds like WoW or online play are much much more difficult. If people are out there and writing these 'bots' that are pretty highly sophisticated, I'd love to hear from them and ask them real questions (not "Do you have a girlfriend?").
By the way, the article has a picture of Steve Martin as "The Jerk" and it's pretty obvious they were interviewing an idiot and doing a radio talk show host job of making him look like a poser.
My work here is dung.
Man that guy's got balls! None can stop our XBox-modding overlords.
Thanks
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
The worst part of cheating is that it forever creates doubt, mistrust and skepticism about the skills of others online, meaning that if you play well, you are labeled a cheater. Respect goes out the window.
I would like to say thank you to Schmuck5000 for letting us in on how utterly dumb and senseless the mind of a cheater can be. I am sure all our faithful
I agree with parent, the interview is stupid, it is just one person whining because the 'cheater' beat him. I agree that what would be interesting is to interview the developers of the cheats.
However, the reason why the people develop cheats is just because there is demand for cheats. So in a sense this cheater has a point, there is people who wants to cheat, it has been like that since the GameGear times of the NES (or before).
My first cheat was with the Price of Persia game on the PC, I remember looking the PRINCE.SAV file on Xtree Gold and editing it in Hex mode (without knowing what it was, just hacking my way trough it) to have more lives and time. Oh, and to bypass the manual letter verifiaciton =o)
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I hope I spelled that right...
But man, it's amazing this guy can't put two of his responses together:
Ok, ignoring for the moment that they did do that (they put it on a freakin' console, for one), even ignoring that banning cheaters is an "anti-cheating engine" of sorts, when asked how game designers should stop cheaters (since he suggested that they do), he says:
So, damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
Still, this has got to be my favorite quote:
Funny, I think this guy cheats (not hard!) because he's a jealous pussy who wishes he had the ability to play fairly.
I call BS. The people I know who can play a game "very well" -- some of them could be tournament-level if they practiced just a bit more -- would all much rather play fair. Oh, they have fun with new cheats and exploits, for about 10 seconds, and we're talking about things like Warthog jumping. The rest of the time, they are the ones who will be winning anyway, by knifing the aimbotter in the back.
But I suppose it's like trying to teach a Ferengi about honor, or a Klingon about restraint, or a Trekkie about the Real World. He'll always cheat, and he'll always suck, and nothing I say will change that.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
We need to get a group of hackers who are willing to come up with mods for cheaters which get them reported as a cheater or perminatly screws up their system they try to mod. If they could get enough of these people perhaps a smaller numer who can come up with these mods and then a larger amount to advertise them on the game mod sites, and have enough of them saying how will it works. Perhaps we could start putting a dent in this.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The principles the cheater presents are remarkably similar to arguments for twinking in WoW. Players claim they do it for a variety of reasons, but a very common one is to "even things out" since the other side probably has twinks.
Also interesting is the similarity in attitude. Anyone posting anti-twink messages generally gets called a "loser" and more offensive terms and is labeled as jealous because they can't get the funds to twink. The cheater says the equivalent, calling people who complain about cheaters some nasty things while saying they are envious because they can't cheat or aren't "smart" enough to.
There's also the classic "If they (being the game creators) didn't want me to cheat (or twink) they would have built an anti-cheat engine (equipment based team selector)" argument. As well as the "I have 1337 skills and even without cheats I'll pwn you" argument.
While there are certainly mature people who do things like twinking because they are bored or because they enjoy fighting other twinks, I think it's obvious (especially if you've ever fought them) that the vast majority are without skill and make up for it with whatever advantage can be afforded to an unskilled moron. If everyone actually cheated, they'd stop playing because they wouldn't be able to win.
The fact that the cheater is 24, lacks a girlfriend (quite defensive about it too), and quotes a hideous translation from a dub of a mainstream cartoon show doesn't lend us to have faith in his intelligence.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
I used to help write anti cheat software, and the thing is the cheats have their own forums as well.
if you want to "interview a cheater" it is very easy to find them.
To successfully find out what cheats were out there I had to get on those boards and become a member and all that stuff. Trust me, "skill" can easily be downloaded for almost any game out there.
The cheaters get all angry and stop playing if they cant cheat, cause the game "aint fun" because they losing or they expect someone else is cheating against them when they lose.
We are teaching our kids that the only way to have fun is to win, and if you are second place it just means your the first loser and all of that.
Kids arent learning that the POINT of the game is to show how good you are at it versus someone else, when you are cheating you arent really playing the same game and your rules are better in your favor. Its completely pointless.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
People who are cheating are playing a different game. They may be having fun, but they are not playing the same game as the rest of the players.
They want to be bully's and the only way the can bully people is to use a "tool" to get over whatever is preventing them from bullying without the "tool".
I thought the exact same thing when I read it...
/.ers) what with all the public misuse of the term "hacker".
It also got me thinking about what an anti-cheating engine would look like...
Honestly why don't companies like bungie simply run a CRC on any downloaded content, or record the downloaded date server side and compare it with the modified date client side. I honestly don't know much about cheating online but as someone who has modded Xbox consoles I would imagine the cheating comes from modifying the extra content that was downloaded from Xbox live and sits on the hard drive (extra maps, etc.). Since you can't modify the disc content (if you did you'd need to run a modchip and if you're running a modchip when you log into Xbox Live MS can detect that and ban your sorry ass).
I would think something as simple as a CRC or date check would be simple enough, once you download the content it shouldn't ever change so the CRC should always pass and the modified date should never change.
I'd also like to point out that there IS a LARGE distinction between modders and cheaters. I'm a modder, I make changes to the console that allow me to run Linux, Xbox Media Center and other homebrew apps, I'm currently working on an HTPC based around an Xbox console. There are even game modders that create new levels, weapons, and other content for Halo and other games... these don't let you cheat but they give you new things to play with just like user mods in PC games... I would think the nerdy gaming community should be able to recognize this difference (particularly
Collector's Edition
I'm willing to bet most people that cheat in games won't have a girlfriend. Otherwise why would they be so obsessed with 'winning' an online game? People with a SO have better things to do that worry about if they won or lost..
:)
You are wrong, I created and released an aimbot for a certain FPS game and I had a girlfriend at the time. It's amazing people still don't understand what a griefer is. It never mattered to me if I won or lost, just as long as I pissed someone off, and got a laugh out of it.
Also the author of the article claims that "Modders", aimbotters, whatever..cheat because they have no skill. That isn't true either, as I've played for first place on a very popular online gaming ladder for the game I used to cheat at, and I know other people who were good players who botted just for the hell of it.
There are some players who use bots, mods, whatever and try to pass them off as 'skill', but for the most part they are just losers. It's much more fun to cheat, and let everyone know about it.
I must say, I hardly play FPS's online anymore as I can't spare the time and today's FPS's just aren't what they used to be. I have been #1 on ngWorldStats for UT/CTF a few times. I have written (non-cheater)mods for a game or two, and an ANTIcheating tool for another (all very well received by their communities). Cheating pisses me off. Yes I used to be real good at some FPS's, and I spent a LOT of time becoming it, playing several hours a day (so call me sad, whatever). What the hell is fun in cheating? If I go into a server and own everybody in there, do I feel good? No. It sucks! I leave and find a server with people who are up to par with my skills. Sometimes they're way above you, then you find a server that is only a little bit above your own skills. And if you get really good in a game, you get to know the other good players. You know who cheats and who doesn't. You don't play with cheaters in general, though sometimes it is fun to kick their scrawny girlfriendless hinies. If you cheat, where's the challenge? What is fun in winning all the time? Ok, I may have actually written a few cheats, but that is because I love coding - it's not like I ever used them 'in the wild'.
Online cheaters are below contempt. I don't care what their motivation is. You don't go and purposely ruin others people's fun. It's just "not done". I don't care if your retarded, doing it for kicks, have some half decent self invented excuse or whatever, you just don't. Hell, I've ended real life friendships when I learned they were cheating (in various ways) and couldn't convince them it's just not done.
The arguments presented in the article are just beyond sanity. "I tend to ignore those people, they bitch and morn about how I cheated but they could have modded their box just like mine.", "How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it.", "Anyone reading this is simply jealous of the fact that I have enough nuts to cheat and play the game the way I want to.", "why should I stop if no one else does"
It's all about the morals and values. Hell, I could've been fairly rich if I didn't hang on to it. Many players of various games have used tools (mods, extensions, cheater-finding, etc) I've made daily. I could've taken most of their accounts if I wanted, selling them on ebay, and in some cases just exchanging it for real world cash (in case of real-cash-economy games). And believe me, there's lots and lots of cash in that. Morals and values...
Saddest thing is, we are most likely to see this guy grow up to be president of some company that earns millions by ripping other people of or otherwise cheating them (spammers anyone?). Fuck that.
no one wants to work for things anymore. they want the quickest way to the top. instant gratification. it's the bane of american society.
You constantly struggle for self improvement - and it shows.
Hooray for bad Engrish on fortune cookies
It is not a mystery. It is very simple. Our brains are the products of evolution in a competitive environment. In the good old days, the losers got eaten (or starved to death or what have you). So, those who used all their resources to give themselves every advantage they could tended to be the winners.
We, therefore, are instinctually driven to use all resources available to us to give ourselves every advantage we can. Hence, the "temptation" to cheat is an ever-present behavioral drive.
Good sportsmanship is an arbitrary social construct. There is nothing natural about it. It takes an act of self-denial to be a good sport, and to not cheat. Now, this may be ethically and socially superior...it may be the more enlightened path...but it is not natural and as such most people don't walk it.
"I think he has a great future in front of him. As we are continually told, life is a competition. The point is to win and not to winge about how it wasn't fair when you loose."
The you're an idiot and don't understand the meaning of competition. Competition implies that there are rules being followed.
Want to play without rules? Great. Come and play a game of poker in my neck of the woods and cheat. Please don't winge (whatever that is) about the lack of working knees when you get caught (ie: lose).
Life is not (regardless of your outlook) a computer game without consequences. Cheaters who get caught usually pay a stiff price. That's because those of us who don't like cheating or cheaters wreak retribution. That, little man, is not complaining about being cheated, but doing something physical (life) about it.
For some reason the word "sociopath" keeps coming to mind when I read your post. Anyone who enjoys pissing off anonymous people in a computer game, and actively seeks that out has a screw or two loose. Perhaps you should up your meds?
AccountKiller
Other posters said it sounds like sociopathic tendencies. It's not a tendency, you are a sociopath.
"It's amazing people still don't understand what a griefer is."
That's practically the definition of a sociopath. A person who does not think or feel the same genuine emotions the rest of society does, but you firmly believe everyone else's brain is wired up the way yours is.
People with normal minds do not play games for the disenjoyment of others, don't understand why someone would want to, and wouldn't enjoy it if we tried. Your thoughts and behavior are equivilant to someone going to medical school so they can cut people with a scalpel. (i.e. Someone who wants to end up with half a dozen bodies hanging in their basement.) You've chosen a course of action for exactly the opposite reason most people do, but you think it's strange the rest of us don't seem to understand or empathize.
It's just childish, pure and simple. Humans cooperate in social networks by trusting each other in various unspoken ways. It's easy to abuse that trust. People who think that they've achieved something by abusing that trust are either children, still experimenting with social limits, or mentally defective in some way, whether sociopathic, desperately insecure, or whatever. That's all there is to it.
Exactly. Instead of
"They bitch and morn about how I cheated but they could have modded their box just like mine."
How about "They bitch and moan about how I broke into their houses and stole their stuff, but they could have lots of stuff too if they just broke into other people's houses and stole theirs." [insert random grammatical mistakes for added authenticity]
This is about the basic trust and respect for other people that makes society a decent place to live. Saying "it's OK that I'm an asshole because everyone else could just be an asshole too if they wanted" gives me no sympathy for his views. Yes, if everyone was a sociopath and took every opportunity to take advantage of others in betrayal of the accepted rules, everyone would be on equal footing, and the world would suck. If this guy got mugged, do you think his opinion would be "that's OK, I could have mugged other people too?"
Unfortunately, I'm afraid his reaction probably would be "Hey, that's a great idea! I could mug other people too!"
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?