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US Software Patents Hit Record High

Aditi Tuteja writes "US Patent and Trademark Office made a new record for the number of software patents awarded in a single year. The agency has issued 893 new patents yesterday. Pushing the total to 30,232 in this year. If this is the trend, more than 40,000 software patents will be issued this year, according to the Public Patent Foundation. The previous record was set in 2004. Several major technology vendors have pledged not to enforce their patents against open source projects. IBM for instance essentially donated 500 patents to open source projects last year. Earlier this year, the US Supreme Court overthrew a prior judgement that required a judge to issue an automatic injunction if he found that a patent was being infringed."

146 comments

  1. Thank God by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 4, Funny

    If we didn't have all this intellectual property everywhere, I feel very certain that we as a society would never write a line of code again.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:Thank God by Ruie · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If we didn't have all this intellectual property everywhere, I feel very certain that we as a society would never write a line of code again.

      Indeed.

      In fact it is the second biggest thing after paper money: paper thought.

    2. Re:Thank God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If we had all this intellectual property everywhere, I feel very certain that we as a society would never write a line of code again."

      Fixed.

    3. Re:Thank God by MrAnnoyanceToYou · · Score: 1

      Of course not. We don't really do anything with computers except let them run our lives mindlessly. Noone would ever do anything new if we couldn't make a buck on forcing other people to buy it only from us.

    4. Re:Thank God by The_Third_Man · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Without any intellectual property there could be no code. All code requires some intellectual property. When everything is patented, everyone will be a patent infringer. If you can selectivly enforce your patents, then get as many as possible and wait untill someone else uses the idea and gets rich. Then start enforcing the patent.

    5. Re:Thank God by couchslug · · Score: 1

      It isn't going to be pretty when all these submarine patents surface and open fire.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    6. Re:Thank God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, because people in Europe never write any code...ever.

    7. Re:Thank God by mr_neke · · Score: 1

      Over here in Australia, our "paper money" is made of plastic. Does that say anything about our "paper thought"? Maybe we're more synthetic than you guys...

    8. Re:Thank God by aplusjimages · · Score: 1
      I'm informing you now that "Paper Thought" has been patented by me. You've been warned.

      I've also got patents on the following:
      • Big Ball of Flaming Light to Light the Earth
      • A Unit of Measurement for the 4th Deminsion
      • The Multiplication of Living Organisms
      --
      Can I bum a sig?
    9. Re:Thank God by daspriest · · Score: 1

      patent numbers please. {/tongueincheek}

    10. Re:Thank God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because people in Europe never write any code...ever.

      The people of Europe are too busy enjoying life, being intellectually minded and molesting children to write any of this yankee cowboy useless "code" thing.

    11. Re:Thank God by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Funny

      Multiple Organisms is a ridiculous feminist myth.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    12. Re:Thank God by Deagol · · Score: 1

      Well, regarding one of those patents, your tongue should be somewhere other than in your cheek.

    13. Re:Thank God by Aditi.Tuteja · · Score: 1

      It is the market value of a piece of an intellectual product a reasonable indicator of a person's contribution to the same...Intellectual property is built around a fundamental tension as the ideas are public but creators want private returns. To overcome this, a distinction developed between ideas and their expression. Ideas could not be copyrighted but their maybe thier expression could be.

  2. Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ich werde stark diesen Patenten entgegengesetzt. Sie hemmen Innovation. Mindestens tun einige Firmen die rechte Sache und schützendes OSS von diesen Patenten.

    1. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ich bin anderer Meinung. Welchen Anreiz gibt es, damit Leute neue Sachen, wenn ihre Ideen gestohlen werden können und ihre Erfindungen erfinden, die ohne sie alles erhalten produziert werden? Leute sagen, daß Software-Patente geöffnete Quell-Software verletzen, aber sie hat nach rechts, Ideen als eigene Software zu stehlen.

    2. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by jrobinson5 · · Score: 0

      Ihre Mutter ist ein swinehound! Stoppen Sie, Deutsches auf Slashdot zu sprechen! Dieses ist ein amerikanischer Aufstellungsort. (übersetzt auf Babelfish. Entschuldigen Sie den defekten Deutschen.)

    3. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dieses soll wirklich wütend schauen! Sie sind falsches etwas! Ich bin an Ihnen wirklich wütend! Sie saugen! Deutscher schaut bereits verärgert, aber diese Ausruf Punkte bilden es Blick verärgerter! Sie stoßen! Dumm! Sie sind ein Dummkopf! Sie sind ein verwesendes Blutgeschwür auf Menschlichkeit! Sie riechen! Stummer Kopf!

    4. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 1

      That's what copywrite is for. It prevents people stealing code (along with derived code in some cases) and calling it their own. Patents are not needed to protect the owners of software, they just allow people who can afford to hinder other developers.

      --
      Silly rabbit
    5. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it's an international place of assembly dispite the American ownership and largely American audience. But I do agree, stop with the German.

    6. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by jrobinson5 · · Score: 0

      Babelfish says:

      "This is to look really furiously! They are wrong something! I am really furious at you! They suck! German looks already annoyed, but this call points form it view more annoyed! They push! Stupidly! They are a fool! They are a decaying blood ulcer on humanity! They smell! Mute head!"

      Makes perfect sense to me.

    7. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by paralaxcreations · · Score: 1

      Not to be a grammar nazi, but... Zing!

    8. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Lassen Sie uns mich sagen erfinden einen Algorithmus. Copyright umfaßt nur meine spezifische Implementierung. Jedermann kann meine Implementierung sonst betrachten und ihre Selbst bilden, meine Idee stehlen und mir keinen Anreiz geben,

    9. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IIRC derivatives can be protected under copyright, giving you adequate protection. The problem with a patent is, someone may have had an idea sparked by your algorithm but can't publish or use it as you have a broad patent. The fact that this new algorithm is too far removed from your original algorithm for you to have any claim over it doesn't matter, you can still screw this person over. Copywrite would have meant that this derivative is nice and legal (as it should be given that it's no longer taking enough of your idea for you to stake claim to it) but closer derivatives would not be (hence protecting you). IMHO patents are far too sweeping and last way too long to be of any use in software.

      --
      Silly rabbit
    10. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      parent was also a babelfish-translation.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    11. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      That's what copywrite is for. It prevents people stealing code (along with derived code in some cases) and calling it their own.

      The problem with copyright and patents with regard to software and hardware is that I can legitimately, in a black box room with no outside input, reinvent exactly and/or essentially, the same methods and/or hardware. This is because problems and tasks serve to define solutions in a space made up of our prior knowledge and education, which is a space that is massively shared. I spend my money, my effort, my neurons, my education upon solving a problem, get it done, and then find that I can't use this solution because someone else has solved the problem as well. They may not even have done so first, but they got to some government flunky first, which is a function of funding more than anything else. That is (patently) ridiculous.

      The most legitimate issue at the core of all this is, it is unreasonable for me to steal the fruit of someone else's labors; I'm not talking about where someone wants to share, as is often the case in the Linux community, for example, but as might be the case where a group and its employees depend upon the proceeds gleaned from the work they have done. Other key issues include encouraging people to solve problems by offering them the opportunity to profit, and excluding the realm of the obvious from protection. I doubt there is a perfect solution, but there is certainly a much better one than patents, and that is trade secret.

      When a solution is created of great complexity and/or sophistication, not sharing the means can be a very powerful way to extend the ability of that creation to earn for its creators. The more complex it is, the more likely it is to remain the exclusive domain of the creators for some time. However, the more useful it is combined with the premium being charged society for it, the more pressure there is on outside factors to also solve the problem(s.) And nothing stops the legitimate invention of an idea elsewhere.

      I maintain that patents are a terrible social burden; one delivered to us all wrapped up in the ribbons of good intent, but which turned out to nothing less than a box of intellectual black plague.

      Copyrights are inappropriate for software because they are unable to distinguish the legitimate re-invention of a process, line by line (or gear by gear), which was essentially dictated by the problem itself. In other words, my code can be entirely my code, and come out exactly like your code; likewise, my water-wheel may look exactly like yours. In simple terms, if the problem is, "Use C to solve the problem, emit 'Hello World' on the command line", my code will probably look just like yours. Ridiculous example? No. Because if the problem is "blend these two layers of 8-bit pixels" the odds are very high that we'll also produce the same code if we're both graphics experts. And so on. Then someone comes along, sees the lines are the same, and claims that the one who solved the problem later was taking the earlier publisher's work, which in fact, is not the case at all.

      Worse, if I am intentionally stealing your layer blending code, if you copyright it, which requires you to expose it, I can examine your code, determine how it works, and intentionally re-arrange the operations so that my code does what yours does, but does not resemble it. So much for copyright "protection."

      Trade secret is hugely superior. The only way you can get to a solution is to work it out. If you can work it out, then you deserve to benefit from the fruits of your labors, and they are your labors, because I never let you see my code. This rewards the inventor(s) for inventing (one key goal of the copyright and patent regimes) and serves to protect inventions in direct proportion to how complex and/or innovative they are (another key goal.) Obvious solutions are

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    12. Re:Software-Patente sind nicht gut by jrobinson5 · · Score: 0

      Mute head! You are a blood ulcer on humanity!

  3. Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How many of these are based on methods that are centuries old, like Projective Gauss-Siegel? And how many are just plain obvious?

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    1. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whoa, just because an idea has been around for CENTURIES doesn't mean it's has prior art. I mean, clearly $IDEA "on the internet" is a completely new and non-obvious idea.

      Hehehe, people should just ignore patents and hope they go away. It's much simpler than getting all in an uproar about it.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    2. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      How many of these are based on methods that are centuries old?
      If all these future ideas are so obvious, why don't you patent them? You can use them and make a mint, or you can be a hero and donate them to the commons for the good of mankind.
    3. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by donaldm · · Score: 1

      A method that is obvious people in the field may not be obvious to people outside the field. The problem is the people who find a method obvious are never consulted till it is to late and by that time they cannot (most likely get a headache first) understand the legal jargon that goes to make up a patent that in turn was made up by legal people who have little if any understanding of the technical aspects of the patent in the first place.

      Solution - disallow patents on all software (it's maths and logic anyway) and business methodologies (what works for one may not work for another).

      Of course this is too easy and I can see this tied up in litigation (in the USA anyway) for centuries.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    4. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Would you ignore a sniper with his weapon trained on your childs head?

      Software patents are plain evil and unless literature is an area of technology, expressly forbidden by TRIPS. You can't just ignore this one and hope it goes away, that isn't going to work!

    5. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by db32 · · Score: 1

      I believe you are close to right on this. I think it shouldn't be an ignore so much as blatantly disregard. If the system gets so flooded with patent lawsuits and countersuits and so on and so forth, eventually someone is going to have to fix it. The government wants their dollars, and if all the tech sector is deadlocked, slowed down, or otherwise crippled by this, the government will not be getting their dollar because foreign companies will just press forward and destroy what part of the tech market we have.

      That being said I hold the patents on using well named variable names outside the context of source code to express an idea on the internet. Your use of "$IDEA" violates my patent. Further I own the patent for using "on the internet" to describe the innovative new patents dealing with the internet. My lawyer will be contacting you shortly.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    6. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      ***How many of these are based on methods that are centuries old, like Projective Gauss-Siegel? And how many are just plain obvious?***

      Who the hell knows? Patents are, by intent, generally written in such a manner as to be pretty much incomprehensible. At a guess, the percentage of software patents that would pass muster amongst knowledgable software people as passing reasonable tests of originality and non-obviousness is in the single digits.

      BTW, it isn't just software. An acquaintance recently bent my ear about what he felt were absolutely whacko patents being granted on chemical compounds that the applicants couldn't even make.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    7. Re:Granted or Rubber-Stamped? by Jzor · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, no software patent had the ability to turn any child's head into a pink mist...

      Nice try with the sensationalism though...

  4. Patent laws and policies, then sell to governments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    How about patenting laws and social program methods? Then, if a party needs a particular law, they can license it. Imagine, campaigns of the future will be "Democrats to license healthcare law from LawPatentFolksInc Inc." This can also help prevent the passing of asinine laws. Think about it .. just before speeding, one can patent "method of reducing roadway speeding by fining arbitrarily large amount of money".

    There's gold in 'dem there holes.

  5. License to punch you in the face by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Basically the patent system is "accept all submissions, if it's wrong let people contest it in court". But don't they realize what a burden this is on society? Are patent examiners evaluated on how many wrong patents they let through, and fired if it is too high?

    Let's think of something else insane. An office where you fill a form and for $1000 you get official permission to punch anyone you want in the face. Insane? Yes. But is the patent system less insane?

    1. Re:License to punch you in the face by bxbaser · · Score: 1

      "An office where you fill a form and for $1000 you get official permission to punch anyone you want in the face"

      Website link please.

    2. Re:License to punch you in the face by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1
      But don't they realize what a burden this is on society?

      They don't care.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
  6. Any opensource projects using those IBM patents? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In other words, does anyone know if any of those IBM patents were good for anything? Because we all know that most patents are useless and IBM probably lets at least that many patents lapse every year to save patent maintenance fees.

  7. We did it!!! by illuminatedwax · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pop the champagne and unleash the balloons!! We finally made it past 40,000! Congrats to all those patent workers working overtime, scouring through all that prior art to make sure that it was a solid 40,000 patents, congrats to the management for finally making a system to promote real progress, and finally, a huge congrats to the inventors! You guys really did all the hard work, discovering 40,000 things that no one would have ever thought of if not for your hard toiling work! Now it's time to reap those benefits as you take your inventions and begin building factories to build or use those inventions of yours! We wish you could give you longer than 23 years, but with the market as it is now, everyone's going to want a piece of the action eventually, and it's only fair that we give them a chance.

    Here's to another year of unprecedented technological improvement!!! Wow, 40,000... Who would have ever thought the human race was capable of such wondrous achievements?

    --
    Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
    1. Re:We did it!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why on earth are you celebrating this record? You should realize that patents, especially software patents, are of very dubious utility and in may cases actively serve to harm the technological progress. Reaching 40 000 patents is a bad thing for pretty much everyone except greedy patent lawyers and short-sighted CEOs. For more information read this article. And in the future, don't be so hasty to celebrate what you don't know!

    2. Re:We did it!!! by The+Real+Nem · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Look on the bright side, at least we're getting all this patenting nonsense done with and out of the way all at once. In another 20 years there will be no more software patents because everything patentable, or at least worth wile patenting, (even the stupidest most obvious of ideas and interfaces) will have expired. Then we'll be free to bath and bask on two centuries of wealth wasted on two centuries of greed. Perhaps only then will true innovation begin.

      I'm dreaming again.

    3. Re:We did it!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Children with AS [Asperger's Syndrome, a type of autism] may be extremely literal and may have difficulty interpreting sarcasm."

      Source: the bathroom wall. Personally, however, I find it more likely that you're just socially retarded.

    4. Re:We did it!!! by illuminatedwax · · Score: 1

      It will be over with at least until we come up with a new medium, say "FutureScape" and then everything will be patented. "Patent #6,234,432,441: Characters expression emotions on FutureScape (i.e. "smileys on FutureScape")

      --
      Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
    5. Re:We did it!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YHBT. YHL. HAND.

    6. Re:We did it!!! by QuantumFTL · · Score: 1

      Then we'll be free to bath and bask on two centuries of wealth wasted on two centuries of greed.

      Which, exactly, were the two centuries of wealth that were wasted, and the two centuries of greed?

    7. Re:We did it!!! by SmokedS · · Score: 1

      You end your post with saying: "I'm dreaming again.", so I assume your post is irony. Here's a hint for anyone that considered the idea seriously:

      The number of possible innovations and combinations of innovations is literally infinite. Unscrupulous corporations will happily continue to patent combining old idea X with old idea Y forever. They will continue to inhibit innovation and progress on a global scale.

      The problems the current system causes won't go away until we do something about it.

    8. Re:We did it!!! by Britz · · Score: 1

      Was it called the Disney rule? Every time the Mouse comes close to loose its Coyright the law is extended. Guess what will happen to all your favourite patents.

    9. Re:We did it!!! by Elektroschock · · Score: 1

      The US just lacks a strong movement against software patents.

      It is no big deal to abolish Us software patents or at least put the system under pressure. But some money is needed for that task.

    10. Re:We did it!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are dreaming. Because a long term strategic goal of the US/Corporations is _renewable_ patents. That's what they'll ask for after they've got patents "on everything under the sun".

      Note that at the diplomatic level, the USA has been caught asking for 30 and 40 year patent terms in the "free" trade agreements in developing world. This might be just so that people "fall back" to 20 years instead of noticing how insane 20 years is in the first place in negotiations, but still.

      The only solution is the complete elimination of the patent system. Yes, some people will lose out, like my slave trading ancestors did a while back.

  8. I wonder who's excited? by Rixel · · Score: 1

    I bet David Banh is getting a woody right now.

    --
    Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
    1. Re:I wonder who's excited? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just read the link. He's 18 years old, what else would he be doing?

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. "Pledges" are worthless by kcbrown · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Several major technology vendors have pledged not to enforce their patents against open source projects.

    Such pledges aren't worth squat. While they may wind up in the record and thus could be used by open source projects as a defense in court, the bottom line is that one would still have to go to court to present that evidence. Against a well-financed corporation, that's likely to mean little, especially since some judges have even gone so far as to disregard prior art in order to uphold a patent claim.

    The bottom line is that the court of law is not a rational venue, but instead seems to be a place to roll the dice, where the odds are stacked heavily in favor of whoever has the most cash.

    That means that open source projects are going to be very vulnerable to patent lawsuits, even in the face of a "pledge" by the patentholders that they won't sue.

    --
    Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    1. Re:"Pledges" are worthless by rjstanford · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It gets worse. What you have here, is a bad idea. However, the people pushing and benefiting from the bad idea are effectively "buying off" their nosiest critics. Selective enforcement is just plain wrong. All it basically says is that software patents are meaningless... unless we don't like you, in which case we can shut you down. Kinda like (although not as bad as) traffic rules that everyone knows won't ever be enforced... unless you're a minority from out of town. But hey, its legal, they're on the books, right?

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  11. dupes? by tomstdenis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm waiting for the case of N peeps with vaguely overlapping patents [N > 2] and then they can have fights about it. I'd pay to watch that... wait...

    I don't know why people are all proud about their patents. Places like IBMs hand out awards and framed pictures of [first page] the patent to inventors. Most of the time it's like "method and apparatus of doing something obvious, on the Internet." When patents are so easy to come by the value of them should be nil, or at least you'd like to think that...

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:dupes? by Rix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It works, more or less, between large corporations. Patents are used essentially as nukes, with the politics of MoD. Odds are they'll each have patents they could use against each other, but there's a tacit agreement that you won't use yours and I won't use mine. (Destructively, at least). That all falls apart when a large company feels threatened by a small one, without a stash of patents to threaten with.

    2. Re:dupes? by Eivind · · Score: 1
      The worst are patent-trolls that *only* exist to litigate patents. They don't actually produce *anything* so there is no risk that they'll do something that is covered by somebodys patent.

      This also means defencive patent-pools are pointless against them.

  12. Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    In general I'm pro patent and copyright but I may be facing a real problem with a new project. How can I be sure I'm not infringing on some one else's patent? Is the first sign the lawsuit? There's no real system in place for spot checking so anything I do in software development may be in breach and I have no way to know it. I want to support the system but with potentially millions of patents in place it's going to be hard to avoid infinging. We're a small company so a lawsuit is french for bankruptcy.

    1. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Congratulations, you've just discovered the problem everyone is complaining about with software patents.

      You cannot possibly check all these patents for infringements. And any non-trivial piece of software will infringe some of these patents - some of the patents are on laughably trivial and common ideas.

      Even if you could afford to pay an army of lawyers and programmers just to scour patents, there's still no way around it. The patents are worded in language that is obtuse and without a serious investigation into each one, it may not be obvious that it does indeed describe something that is present in your software, just not in the wording you would have chosen.

      Our "intellectual property" system in the US is well on the way to madness. There is no way out.

    2. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You only realize this now? Does the fact that the answer to your question is 'you can't be sure' change your opinion on patents?

      Developing a large and complex program means combining many ideas, often hundreds or thousands of them. In a country that allows software patents, chances are that some substantial fraction of the ideas in your program will be patented already by various companies. Perhaps hundreds of patents will cover parts of your program. A study in 2004 found almost 300 US patents that covered various parts of a single important program. It is so much work to do such a study that only one has been done.
    3. Re:Simple question by aeoo · · Score: 4, Interesting
      In general I'm pro patent and copyright but I may be facing a real problem with a new project. How can I be sure I'm not infringing on some one else's patent? Is the first sign the lawsuit? There's no real system in place for spot checking so anything I do in software development may be in breach and I have no way to know it. I want to support the system but with potentially millions of patents in place it's going to be hard to avoid infinging. We're a small company so a lawsuit is french for bankruptcy.

      If I told you that such system for spot checking could not be feasibly created, would you still be pro patent?

      In other words, does the pragmatic usability of idea affect your opinion about it? Or do you like some things, no matter how well they turn out in real life? (In other words, are you an idealist?) It's a real question. I'm not trying to imply anything.

      Are you pro patent, then, in hopes of such system coming online soon? If there is no obvious reason to hope for such a system becoming available soon, then why are you pro patent?
    4. Re:Simple question by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      In general I'm pro patent and copyright but I may be facing a real problem with a new project. How can I be sure I'm not infringing on some one else's patent? Is the first sign the lawsuit?

      I do have to wonder how you can be "pro patent" "in general", but then say you're facing "real problems" that only exist *because of the fundamental way patents work*...

    5. Re:Simple question by back_pages · · Score: 2, Insightful
      To answer the original poster's question, I'd suggest either buying liability insurance, hiring a patent attorney to investigate his liability or patent suit, or both.

      When starting up a new business, it's common practice to hire an accountant. Managing your finances, withholding from your employees' wages, and filing your taxes is complicated. If you screw up, it could destroy your company. It should be done by a professional.

      Funny, all of those arguments apply to intellectual property as well.

      Of course, if he wants to completely avoid being sued with a US patent, he could relocate to another country and refuse to do business with the US. You can't be sued where there is no jurisdiction.

      Patents are a cost of doing business in America. You can adjust for that, or you can pray you don't go down in flames.

      I agree with the parent that no spot checking system could be implemented.

    6. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you write software, you are guilty of patent infringement. Whether or not you get sued will depend on how successful your company is. After all, you can't squeeze blood from a stone.

    7. Re:Simple question by Coeurderoy · · Score: 1

      Actually in France (EU) we fought very hard in order NOT to have SWPATs.

      So you should write: Lawsuit is "English (US)" for Bancrupcy.

      And do not worry about infringing, you are, the solution is to stay small enough so that it is not worth it to take you to the cleaner.

      Do not forget to create multiple corporate entities, so that you can drop any part that gets sued.

      Or sell to a company with at least 1 Billion of yearly revenues

      Or migrate to a business friendly country (ok that's a troll :-))

    8. Re:Simple question by Aditi.Tuteja · · Score: 1

      Measures needed for the courts to find patents invalid based on the preponderance of the evidence, without having to find that clear and convincing evidence compels that result. The current standard of "clear and convincing evidence" undermines courts' ability to weed out questionable patents since certain PTO procedures and rules tend to favor the issuance of patents. Believing that you have the most Innovative idea, and you would get a unique patent is not enough. You need to prepare for an extensive research and competition with Patent Law and Policies.

    9. Re:Simple question by chefren · · Score: 1

      I think he meant he is pro-patent in principle (the right to patent your ideas) but has problems with how the patent system is implemented.

    10. Re:Simple question by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      ***In general I'm pro patent and copyright but I may be facing a real problem with a new project. How can I be sure I'm not infringing on some one else's patent?***

      You can't. Which is why you should rethink your position on patents. At least for software and other intangibles. Personally, I think the patent system is just plain rotten from bowsprint to rudder post and should be scuttled.

      Copyright is a different issue. It is largely enforceable. Many people, including me, feel that the duration of copyright is too long but in your context, you know if you are stealing someone's code. Copyright can not be used to protect something that is independently developed even if turns out to have the same expression. Unlike patent, copyright is not a threat to your undertaking.

      The major reason that copyright duration is too long is that Disney has a substantial investment in cartoon characters that were created 70 years ago. I actually don't have any problem with Disney's being able to prevent Donald Duck's Tattoo Parlor from being opened up across the street from Disneyworld. Seems reasonable that Disney should control the characters they developed -- in Disney's domain. But I think that rather than extending all copyrights, some sort of special exemption or perhaps an extension to Trademark would be preferable.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    11. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great Idea! Let's create an online spot check system and patent it!

    12. Re:Simple question by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      > ...hiring a patent attorney to investigate his liability or patent suit...

      With 30,000 patents per year, that means that a patent attorney has to read more than approximately 150 new patents every work day to stay current. That's ignoring the, what, 100,000+ patents already in existance. There is no way that a single attorney can be of any help any more. You need to hire the services of a large patent law firm. Since only big companies can afford that, where does this leave the small developer? Hung out to dry.

      jfs

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    13. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your small enought that a lawsuit is prohibitively expensive to deal with your also small enough that a lawsuit is not worth the effort of pursuing against you.
      Companies that assert patents fall into two types. Those that assert patents against their direct competitors and those that assert patents against the biggest fish they can find.
      If you have direct competitors, you should be aware of their patent portfolios.
      If you are a big company then patent issues are just another cost of doing business.

    14. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cost of a patent search is typically under ten grand. A patent search only requires one attorney who commissions a search firm to do a search. The search firm has patent searchers who may come back with a list of 10-50 of the most relevant patents that relate to a specific concept. The attorney reviews these patents and decides if they are a risk or not. If there is a patent that poses a risk then further inquiry may be necessary. The cost of getting a formal opinion is around thirty thousand on average. The type of situation where a formal opinion is required generally involves patents by direct competitors or known patent trolls.
        Noone goes out and reads every patent that gets issued. Searches based on keywords, patent classes and patent ownership are sufficient.

    15. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is just one answer to your question. You are an idiot. "I'm pro patent and copyright but I may be facing a real problem with a new project. How can I be sure I'm not infringing on some one else's patent?". God! Really, what an idiot!

    16. Re:Simple question by fyngyrz · · Score: 1
      The cost of getting a formal opinion is around thirty thousand on average.

      And that, my friend, serves as a complete condemnation of the system. As soon as the cost exceeds what can reasonably be found in the cookie jar of a guy who digs ditches for a living, the system can be confidently and accurately described as completely and utterly broken. I can afford a patent out of pocket change. Joe the ditch-digger cannot. Joe may be the next Einstein; between him and I, the odds favor neither of us in terms of how inventive, creative, innovative and so forth we may be. Yet the fact that I have more cash will determine that I will succeed from ground zero, thus crushing my opponent. This is stupid.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    17. Re:Simple question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand your point but don't see how this is different from anything else in the business world. Consider it an infrastructure cost to starting a business or project. If you don't have the cash or can't get a loan to get a business started then you are at a severe disadvantage to someone who can. There are many costs to doing business and patent diligence is one of them. If Joe the ditch digger is the next Einstein, as long as he can convince someone who has money that his ideas are worthwhile he will succeed.

      If you need to get a thirty thousand dollar opinion it is because you are looking at profits well in excess of that amount. Conversely, if you don't have the money for a thirty thousand dollar opinion, you don't have enought profits to need to be concerned about getting the opinion in the first place.

    18. Re:Simple question by fyngyrz · · Score: 1
      I understand your point but don't see how this is different from anything else in the business world

      An idea, in and of itself, is the one thing you can create with nothing but your own resources — even if those are nil in terms of material value. With an idea, one could, one would think, approach people with other resources, and turn the idea into relative wealth for your family and yourself.

      Without the ability to protect the idea on par with the corporation, and also without the ability to defend that protection, the means is removed from the common man, and we become a society with built-in starting lines for corporations that are far in advance of the common man... when the common man is the one that needs an assist, if indeed anyone can be said to need one.

      Just because the business world has evolved to a particular state, does not validate that state. The status quo is no more than that. Sometimes, it is exactly where we should not be. This is one of those cases.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  13. Re:Any opensource projects using those IBM patents by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know postgresql at one point unintentionally used one of IBM's patents. They removed/rewrote the code though, since they use the BSD license. Using IBM's patent would prevent people from close-sourcing it without negotiating a license from IBM.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  14. Ironically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Ironically, this might actually be a good thing.

    If, say, 90% of all obvious patents are granted _now_, then 20 years from now, all obvious patents will have expired and there wont be many more obvious "inventions" to patent.

    Ergo: in 20 years - no more obvious patents. //0xFE

    1. Re:Ironically by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      They won't all expire at the same time. Not even close.

    2. Re:Ironically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't mean _exacly_ 20 years for christs sake. I meant _roughly_ 20 years, think: +/- 10 years.

  15. Denial of Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Our current software patent practices make a mockery of the true intent of the patent system. Nobody working on any software project would be foolish enough to go checking to see if the software infringes because: (1) Odds are it probably does, and (2) if you proceeded without licensing all of the "inventions" that you "infringed" on, you are then liable for triple damages for willful infringement.

    By allowing this state of affairs to continue, truly innovative patents are harmed because of the extreme disincentive to avoid willful patent infringement. The biggest losers are open source projects, since the patent trolls have free access to the source code to examine for violations. It seems that the patent system has been reduced to a risk to be mitigated against for many companies. Better stockpile some bogus patents of your own so you can fend of the trolls with patents of your own.

    Time fails me to even get started about "Business Process" patents. Remember the Amazon 1-click patent anyone?

  16. Trends by tonyr1988 · · Score: 1
    If this is the trend, more than 40,000 software patents will be issued this year
    Man, I gotta get ahold of a patent on linear regression.
  17. Duplicate patents? by erroneus · · Score: 1

    You know? Programmers can be clever, but not THAT clever. So I have to wonder not *IF* duplicate patents exist, but how often they exist and go on like that?

    1. Re:Duplicate patents? by Frogbert · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and then I would be asking why they didn't put those duplicate patents in a library that could be easily maintained and shared between other patients.

    2. Re:Duplicate patents? by Znork · · Score: 1

      You dont have to wonder. The classic would be the LZW patent, patented by both Unisys and IBM. And that was in the 80's...

  18. Ever filed a patent application? by mikefocke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can tell you that it is not a rubber stamp process as ours took well over 16 months and several submissions, back and forth questions and answers, clarifications and justifications. Probably several hundred pages in total and I shudder to think what it cost in lawyer fees. The USPO examiner did his job and really made us work for it, narrowing the claims and causing us to better differentiate from prior patented software.

    1. Re:Ever filed a patent application? by inviolet · · Score: 1
      The USPO examiner did his job and really made us work for it, narrowing the claims and causing us to better differentiate from prior patented software.

      I've been through that too... it took six years to get it all approved. They are indeed very careful to check each patent against earlier patents.

      What the USPTO doesn't do, is check each patent against prior art. In effect, a patent simply says "This method may already be in common use, but this is the first time anyone has thought to patent it."

      To illustrate: US patent number 6,368,227 is a "method of swinging on a swing", in which the person pulls the chains alternately in order to swing side to side.

      So, it's up to the courts to sort out the question of prior art. The common complaint here on slashdot (and in my own heart) is that the USPTO should check prior art... but now that I think about it, that seems inefficient. It's inefficient because most patents will never come to dispute, and hence are irrelevant. Why spend a gabillion dollars bringing in the necessary expertise, until you know that it actually matters (i.e. is actually challenged)?

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    2. Re:Ever filed a patent application? by WebMink · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So, it's up to the courts to sort out the question of prior art. The common complaint here on slashdot (and in my own heart) is that the USPTO should check prior art... but now that I think about it, that seems inefficient. It's inefficient because most patents will never come to dispute, and hence are irrelevant. Why spend a gabillion dollars bringing in the necessary expertise, until you know that it actually matters (i.e. is actually challenged)?

      Seems to me that the main problem here is that there's no meaningful penalty for ignoring prior art. One idea that seems easy but I've never seen pursued is for the law to be changed to treat a failure to cite prior art as perjury. Then, should a successful prior art case be prosecuted against a patent, the applicant would be subject to fines or even imprisonment. This simple change would rebalance the system and result in far fewer lame patents with obvious prior art.

    3. Re:Ever filed a patent application? by inviolet · · Score: 1
      Seems to me that the main problem here is that there's no meaningful penalty for ignoring prior art. One idea that seems easy but I've never seen pursued is for the law to be changed to treat a failure to cite prior art as perjury. Then, should a successful prior art case be prosecuted against a patent, the applicant would be subject to fines or even imprisonment. This simple change would rebalance the system and result in far fewer lame patents with obvious prior art.

      Now that is frikkin' insightful.

      It reminds me of an old saying: In software, there are no problems that cannot be solved with an additional layer of abstraction. Well, in politico-economics, apparently there are no problems that cannot be solved with an additional (dis)incentive. :)

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    4. Re:Ever filed a patent application? by teflaime · · Score: 1

      And yet, they still failed to realize that software should never be patented. It should be copyrighted. The patent office should be kicking back every software patent application as "too stupid for words".

    5. Re:Ever filed a patent application? by Ulric · · Score: 1

      In law, there are no problems that cannot be solved by more law.

    6. Re:Ever filed a patent application? by mavenguy · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well, there already is a Duty to disclose information material to patentability. The Oath (or Declaration) requires the inventor(s) to swear or declare that he/they is/are the "original and first inventor or inventors of the subject matter which is claimed and for which a patent is sought." There is also a general Federal law that prescribes fine and/or imprisonment for up to 5 years for anyone who, in Federal Government proceedings knowingly and willfully
      1. falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
      2. makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
      3. makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
      In the recent decades it is common practice for patent applicants to submit an "Information Disclosure Statement" where they list prior art they submit to satisfy the foregoing laws and rules. And it's not uncommon to find an examiner using art cited by applicant in formulating prior art rejections. The real question, though, is one of state of mind of the applicant, i. e., the old question if "What did you know and when did you know it?" In asessing applicant's duty to disclose relevant prior art, how much effort to find relevant prior art must applicant show? It is not totally out of the question, even in this age of extensive internet search tools and data sources, that some public, but obscure, piece of prior art might exist, but not readily available. If someone only unearths the reference after searching for hundreds of hours (and quite possibly going to many dead tree sources or making hundreds of phone calls), are you really going to fine/throw in prison the applcant even if they can show they did make a decent search? And a borderline situation often exists in areas that have rapid development, where ideas can be published and spread very quickly. At what point does this become so commonly known that the applicant must be presumed to have known of it prior to the filing of the application, and thus be liable to criminal sanctions?

      There's even a more complex situation where the question of obviousness is involved, as it most frequently is. A patent (or application) claim is unpatentable if it describes "subject matter as a whole [that] would have been obvious at the time the invention was made to a person having ordinary skill in the art to which said subject matter pertains" (35 USC 103). Who makes the judgment of what this ficticious person of ordinary skill in the art would know, and how he would judge the claim? It's a question of opinion to which different people, even with some credibility in the field, can disagree. What if the applicant, has the same prior art to consider, and decides it's not relevant, and thus, fails to cite it, but later some "expert witness" disagrees and states that, at the time of the invention anyone in the art would have known this? And, remember, the issue here is not that the claim is properly invalidated by this prior art, but that the applicant knew of the prior art, but did not disclose it; was this a good or bad faith omission?

      It's hard enough just making the patentable/unpatentable decision under the current law, and it's a good idea to cite prior art even one is almost certain it's not relevant to the patentability determination, but routinely criminalizing such an omission seems a bit over the top.
  19. Re:What's really scary is... by back_pages · · Score: 2, Interesting
    not that so many patents are issued. If need be, you can strike them down, though it is costly. But it's possible. Once we move to the first to file method of patent law, these numbers will seem quaint. At least with first to invent you have the opportunity to right a wrong.

    I think you may misunderstand the first to file vs. first to invent situation.

    Under both systems, if you have no patent, and somebody with a patent sues you for infringement, you can invalidate the patent by demonstrating prior art. This is exactly the same under either system.

    The ONLY situation where first to file vs. first to invent matters is when you have a patent application and someone else also has a patent application for the SAME INVENTION. Note that NEITHER of you actually have a patent yet. In first to file systems, the person who filed first gets the patent. In the US with a first to invent system, we hold an "interference" proceeding to determine, then and there, which one of you invented first. This is extremely expensive for everyone involved, can take well over a year to straighten out, and is of questionable benefit.

    Consider the alternative - you invented it first and can prove it, but someone else filed first. You won't get the patent, however you WILL have some valuable information: You can probably invalidate that patent with hardly a struggle. The patent that issued is far weaker, if not abandoned altogether. You don't get the patent protection you may have deserved, but the patent that was issued to the other guy is crippled. The subject matter of a patent that has been abandoned or invalidated becomes public domain, and therefore free to use by anybody.

    The only people who win with a first to invent system are those people who truly seek their right to exclude but, for whatever reason, have delayed about filing the patent paperwork. There are many people who think we'd be better off harmonizing with the rest of the world and using a first to file system.

  20. Better Headline: by FFFish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    US Software Patent Examiners Hit Record High.

    Because, judging by the kinds of patents they're approving these days, it's farqing weed city down there at the patent office.

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    1. Re:Better Headline: by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      There are random posters on my university campus recruiting patent examiners.

      I'm not even at a spectacularly big university.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:Better Headline: by Don_dumb · · Score: 1

      I think we can now be fairly certain they are getting performance pay based on patents approved.

      --
      If this were really happening, what would you think?
  21. A societal fuckup of biblical proportions by Alien+Being · · Score: 1
    1. Re:A societal fuckup of biblical proportions by rts008 · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points to give you.
      That was truly a subtle, yet insightful post.
      IANAC (I am not a christian), but am familiar with the Bible (some interesting stories there)and your reference summed it up rather succinctly!

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  22. Note to self: File these patents Monday morning .. by jabberwock · · Score: 1
    1. Process whereby individuals cast "ballots" to choose "representative leaders."

    2. Process for granting intellectual property rights.

    3. ...

  23. Re:What's really scary is... by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

    That really doesn't add up. First to file means I can invent something a week before you, you file it first and get the patent, and then mine can still be used as prior art, thereby making a simple timing issue cause there to be no patent at all? I thought prior art under such a system had some requirements on some things, e.g. the invention had to be previously publically known or disclosed.

    --

    --

    WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
  24. Naive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Look on the bright side, at least we're getting all this patenting nonsense done with and out of the way all at once. In another 20 years there will be no more software patents because everything patentable, or at least worth wile patenting, (even the stupidest most obvious of ideas and interfaces) will have expired.

    You say that as if "prior art" has any meaning to them :-)

  25. Bullshit by cdn-programmer · · Score: 1

    In 20 years they'll be resorting, like Sesame Street, to asking for patents on the letter "M". If they can't get a blanket patent then they'll be asking for a patent on the novel approach of using "M" to spell "M"other! Of course there will be a lot of litigation already about the use of the letter "S" as in "S"ue.

    But who cares, with the new "Digital Rights Managment" that "M"$ will create by then, it will probably be illegal for anyone other than a certified "M"$ programmer to write programs because "w"e might infringe on some special interest groups' rights.

    Read this as the "R"IAA's desire to ensure that only musicians who sign with the big labels have any hope of selling a recording... and of those who do? The small independant musicians?

    Well, just like here in "C"anada, they'll be paying a royalty when they buy the CD blanks and these roylaties will be collected for the musical community... "E"xcept, of course, none of the money collected will go to any independant musicians.

    Sesame Street is not be prior art because they didn't think of using the letter "M" as part
    of computer software. Long before then of course, "C" will no longer be in use.

  26. You bet by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's statistically inconceivable that 40,000 original, unique, useful and non-obvious methods would be created in a year. Most of them are probably garbage. If the PO did it's job, there might be a couple of dozen methods that would qualify under the Constitutional definition of patentability.

  27. Good! Patent everything! by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The sooner everything is patented, the sooner the patents will run out.

    Not only will every thing then be up for grabs, but it will all be neatly documented at the USPTO!

    Wake me up in 20 years.

    A related question - if someone suspects you of infinging their software patent, but you claim closed source, trade secret status, how can they prove you infringed, if you don't allow them to reverse engineer your software, under penalty of the DMCA?

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:Good! Patent everything! by Tod+DeBie · · Score: 1
      ...if someone suspects you of infinging their software patent, but you claim closed source, trade secret status, how can they prove you infringed...

      First, you send them a letter stating that you think they are infringing on your patent xyz. If they refuse to cooperate, then you take them to court and, provided you survive pre-trial motions to dismiss, etc., then during the legal discovery process, you get to look at their stuff and prove your case.

      All that said, it is not usually so difficult. Many software patents involve methods and steps that should be easily identifiable in an infringing application without having to tear it apart.

    2. Re:Good! Patent everything! by ZombieRoboNinja · · Score: 1

      Everyone keeps getting modded up for variations on this comment, like Slashdot as a whole has conveniently forgotten that Congress does stuff like extending copyright every time Disney has its lobbyists ask real nicely. You don't think these software companies, and especially useless leach-on-society patent-hoarding lawsuit wranglers, will be sucking up to Congress to extend patents in another couple decades?

    3. Re:Good! Patent everything! by SmokedS · · Score: 1

      Yes, because we all know that there's a limit to the number of ways things can be implemented and combined. Look at the world of today, technology and science has almost completely stagnated. Uh, wait a minute now...

      Every generation has some prominent figure putting his entire foot in his mouth saying something along the lines of "Pretty much everything that can be invented has been invented.".

      It's complete and utter hogwash.

    4. Re:Good! Patent everything! by dueyfinster · · Score: 1

      A related question - if someone suspects you of infinging their software patent, but you claim closed source, trade secret status, how can they prove you infringed, if you don't allow them to reverse engineer your software, under penalty of the DMCA?

      I suspect they'll do a discovery period, similiar to the way the RIAA has done when people won't settle.

      --
      --- Duey Finster http://www.dueyfinster.com
    5. Re:Good! Patent everything! by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      A related question - if someone suspects you of infinging their software patent, but you claim closed source, trade secret status, how can they prove you infringed, if you don't allow them to reverse engineer your software, under penalty of the DMCA?

      I imagine that if they were able to convince a judge that there was reasonable cause to believe you were infringing, the court would compell you to reveal your source. Refusing to do so would likely land you in trouble for contempt of court.

      ObDisclaimer: I can barely even spell lawyer, and I'm certainly not one.

    6. Re:Good! Patent everything! by IIH · · Score: 1

      The sooner everything is patented, the sooner the patents will run out. Not only will every thing then be up for grabs, but it will all be neatly documented at the USPTO! Wake me up in 20 years.

      Unless, of course, in 19 years, someone patents "Analysing the USPTO database for soon-to-be expired patents for use in business."

      --
      Exigo spamos et dona ferentes
    7. Re:Good! Patent everything! by naasking · · Score: 1

      provided you survive pre-trial motions to dismiss, etc., then during the legal discovery process, you get to look at their stuff and prove your case.

      Right, and the court of law is thus a "circumvention device" as outlawed by the DMCA. Bye, bye courts! ;-)

    8. Re:Good! Patent everything! by wenchmagnet · · Score: 1

      I might be missing something here but wasnt copyright originally intended to be for a finite period? That got extended pretty easily.

      Whats makes you so sure that the validity of patents will not get extended the same way?

    9. Re:Good! Patent everything! by Tod+DeBie · · Score: 1

      I am sure the courts will find it in themselves to grant themselves an exception to the DMCA for discovery purposes.

    10. Re:Good! Patent everything! by argent · · Score: 1

      Every generation has some prominent figure putting his entire foot in his mouth saying something along the lines of "Pretty much everything that can be invented has been invented.".

      He didn't say that.

      Try "within 20 years pretty much everything that can be obviously patented (is that an oxymoron or what?) in the current land-grab will have been patented and expired". Which is so completely different than what you said that I can't imagine what patent medicine you're on.

    11. Re:Good! Patent everything! by SmokedS · · Score: 1

      You consider him a prominent figure of our generation?
      I don't. I thought it would be obvious I was not talking about him.

      As for their being a shortage of patentable things whlle progress keeps rolling, that's just silly.

      Summary,
      You attack me for misquoting when I was not quoting.
      You call me a junkie.
      You make a completely unsubstantiated claim that goes about all experience of how software patents work.

      Brilliant argument. Just brilliant.

    12. Re:Good! Patent everything! by argent · · Score: 1

      As for their being a shortage of patentable things whlle progress keeps rolling, that's just silly.

      Read for content.

      I didn't say there was a shortage of patents, I said that the current crop of "obvious patents" (which is still an oxymoron) will get mined out.

      That doesn't mean that "there's a sortage of patentable things".

      That doesn't mean that "software patents aren't a problem".

  28. Source please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where is the source of the figures? TFA points to a blog with zero reliability.

  29. Doing the Numbers by ja · · Score: 1

    So with 800 something new software patents arriving every day, I am to get less than a minute a piece to read them through and figure out if any of it has anything to do with my line of business?

    Hey, that way there is really only one viable business left. Logically I am forced to become a software patent attorney! Or a terrorist perhaps? ... Whatever the difference!

    --

    send + more == money? ...
  30. corresponds with record low in new ideas by wardk · · Score: 1

    maybe it just seems that way

  31. Supply and demand by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    When everyone has patents, the worth of an individual patent is reduced effectively to zero. I recommend that all IT companies apply for as many patents as you can afford, don't bother with patent lawyers and the like, just make vaguely unique things up and apply because the value of a patent is that you have one which others don't. If you can threaten them the way they are threatening you the value is lost.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Supply and demand by Aditi.Tuteja · · Score: 1

      The proliferation of US software patent squabbles, and is swallowing much of the time, money and risk-taking of America's technology firms. Patent law was meant to enable innovation, not discourage it. Reforming the patent system will help everyone get the picture. Aditi Tuteja

  32. Patents eat Innovation by pieterh · · Score: 1

    A while back I wrote an article on this.

    Patents don't drive innovation, they are what happens when lawyers discover lucrative deposits of innovation sheltering in nice little shaded valleys, and decide to burn down the trees, strip mine the valleys, and extract the last drop of value from the accumulated innovation, creating havoc and destruction in the process.

    The sad thing is that governments are convinced that patents are equal to innovation, making the stupid mistake of confusing correlation with causation.

    Software patents are not what drives programmers to invent. Software patents are a tool by which lawyers rip-off the IT industry.

    Every single time patent law is relaxed (in the US as in Europe) to include more software, you will find IP lawyers steering the process.

  33. Re:What's really scary is... by toQDuj · · Score: 1

    Alternatively, you could just do your coding anywhere outside of the USA, where software patents have no legal binding.

    B.

    --
    Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
  34. Infinite number of obvious ideas. by SmokedS · · Score: 1

    Nice thought, but false.

    The number of possible ideas to patent is quite literally infinite. Progress does not stop. New obvious improvements become visible as soon as the last batch has been implemented, or even just considered.

    Corporations that have huge patent portfolios will be able to happily continue to rule the marketplace using their armies of lawyers. They will be able to continue to prevent competition at a scale that literally hampers global progress.

    The current system needs to go. The sooner the better.

    Instead, our brave leaders want to remove the demand that the corporation getting the patent is the inventor.

    1. Re:Infinite number of obvious ideas. by rts008 · · Score: 1

      "The number of possible ideas to patent is quite literally infinite." and "The current system needs to go."

      Spot on....'cause to end it all, I'm filing for a patent on "teh method/implementation of filing a patent on a seemingly novel idea"- in other words...All your patents are belong to me!

      All joking/sarcasm aside, I expect the "end of the world as we know it" (ie: post-apocalyptic type sci-fi scenario) will be caused by economics/corporations instead of nuclear war/strife. It would not surprise me to see worldwide economic collapse at the hands of the major corp's the way things are going now.

      Hope I'm wrong, and I could very well be, but I am losing faith more every day...probably played too much Cyberpunk for my own good!

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  35. Re:Any opensource projects using those IBM patents by ThePhilips · · Score: 1
    ...patents are useless...

    You need to have watched SCO v. IBM more closely. When time had come for IBM to counter-sue, they have used 7(?) patents they have had for pretty obvious ideas.

    It's not about quality - it's about quantity. If I hold 1000 patents you would think twice before suing me on patent infringement: it might take long time to overthrow my counterclaims backed by patents. If your patent is tested in court - that hurts credibility of your patent. And drain your resources to protect yourself from other patent sharks^Wholders like you are.

    The software patents are not about technology or ideas anymore - they are now deterioration tool, to keep potential competitors at bay.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  36. Re:Any opensource projects using those IBM patents by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

    Also note, that there are pretty much of solid software patents. e.g. Frauenhofer's MP3 is one of them. They have come up with idea on how to make efficient digital music compression possible - and they have patented that idea along with adjacent methods to implement the idea. If you read the patents, you would notice that they are very narrow and do not conform to general patent structure "and the kitchen sink".

    Though it is very hard to say that MP3 is software: I think now we have parity of number software v. hardware implementations.

    I think, that if patents were mandated to be narrow - e.g. like legal documents - we would have seen much less pointless patent litigations.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  37. Re:What's really scary is... by Znork · · Score: 1

    "the invention had to be previously publically known or disclosed."

    Yes, and this is intentional. The patent system was arguably intended to encourage disclosure in a time when we had nothing like the communications infrastructure we have today and science and innovation were not as collaborative with as rapid turnover as today. Therefore, the first-to-file system actively discourages sitting on inventions for years without disclosing them, essentially forcing a publish or patent situation.

    Of course, at that time, such things were matters of years or even decades, and research and innovation was far more centralized and a far smaller community, creating a situation where the system could actually provide a benefit through increasing disclosure rate and communication.

    These days with the foundation of knowledge needed for furthering innovation is available anywhere where there's a computer, an internet connection and a problem, the innovations can be published anywhere from a blog in rural India to a fishing village in Norway, and idea turnover rate is in the range of hours or days, the previous 'disclosure' system has become redundant and is now hindering, rather than furthering, the evolution of ideas.

  38. Invention vs. innovation by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 1

    There was a time when patents were awarded for inventions. Nowadays they are awarded for innovations. What is the difference?

    The difference is that an invention is something new. An innovation is something old and well-known, where the innovator is the first to apply for a patent for, with the words "on the Internet" added.

  39. May I be the first... by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 1

    May I be the first European to say:

    "You Americans are soooo screwed!"

    In Europe we will never be so stupid to legitimize software patents!

    *** continues dreaming ***

  40. How meaningful is this? by Wizard052 · · Score: 1

    I'm aware of the pros and cons of patents in general- but in the case of software I don't see how it can do anything but damage... the way I see it, software is basically about algorithms and algorithms are basically step-by-step procedures for solving a given problem. Okay, there can exist possibly infinite algorithms for a given problem but the optimal one will be....maybe one, and obviously that's the one that will be implemented. So if you patent an algorithm, I have to look for a less optimal way to solving that problem otherwise I pay you? What if there exists no other logical solution?

    If implementations of an algorithm were being patented, then that's more bearable, I suppose but do they mean the algorithms themselves? This is almost like patenting science, itself.

  41. Early days of software patents re: my dad by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    My dad has a great story about trying to get a software patent from the stone age of computers. The US PTO came back and said to him, "there will NEVER be software patents."

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:Early days of software patents re: my dad by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

      It's too bad he didn't save the letter. That would be awesome to have scanned and put on the net.

      --
      Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
  42. Let's remember about patents: by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

    Let's keep in mind: (1) A survey of pantents shows somethng like 80% of patents could likely be successfully challenged on the basics: obviousness and prior art. (2) Only about 3% of patents are ever licensed to others. Less than 1.5% of patents ever make any money for anyone but patent lawyers.

  43. Re:What's really scary is... by back_pages · · Score: 1
    That really doesn't add up. First to file means I can invent something a week before you, you file it first and get the patent, and then mine can still be used as prior art, thereby making a simple timing issue cause there to be no patent at all? I thought prior art under such a system had some requirements on some things, e.g. the invention had to be previously publically known or disclosed.


    As the other response noted, which I'll distill to a single phrase, "First to file awards the earliest possible disclosure of your invention." Waiting to file is at your own peril - you risk forever losing the patent rights to your invention.

    But still, none of this prevents you from invalidating an issued patent by disclosing your prior art.

  44. US Protectionism? by Richard+Kirk · · Score: 1
    If I patent something, I patent it in my own country. If I get the patent, I can then apply for a patent in other countries citing the unpublished patent in my own country. In the UK I cannot jump straight to applying for a US patent, even if all my market is in the US, and my UK/European patents are not needed. This is a sensible ruling - it means that the US patent office is not flooded by foreign patent applications, as the local application processes should weed out the unoriginal ideas, the unworkable ideas, and so forth.

    However, suppose one country in the international patent community choses to unilaterally extend the concept of patents to include methods (swinging on a swing sideways), business practices (pouring the milk on your own cereal), software (editing colours in an image using a computer), or harvesting traditional plants (basmati rice). Their nationals will be able to file patents for heroic ideas such as these (hooray!), but people in other countries where such patents are not recognized will be unable to apply for them.

    This argument could be taken either way. The TRIPs agreement requires that patents be available for "any inventions, whether products or processes, in all fields of technology, provided they are new, involve an inventive step and are capable of industrial application". It could be argued that the European Patent Convention and all subsequent rulings against software patents and the like are not compatible with this section of the TRIPs areement by excluding a subset of the possible patents. However, it does seem against the spirit of reciprocality within TRIPs for one country to unilaterally extend patent law in this way.

    Oh, and by the way, it stinks too.

    1. Re:US Protectionism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong about this. You can apply for a patent in any country you want. You may then rely on the application to file in other countries. There is no weeding out because the time between the original and foreign filing is almost never long enough for their to have been substantive prosecution of the application.

  45. I think it's time to patent patenting SW patents by xtaski · · Score: 1

    I'm going to file a software patent for both filing patenting software patents - that'll show 'em. Then I get royalties on every patent filed.. nice.

  46. Re: perjury not a solution by kansas1051 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    One idea that seems easy but I've never seen pursued is for the law to be changed to treat a failure to cite prior art as perjury. Then, should a successful prior art case be prosecuted against a patent, the applicant would be subject to fines or even imprisonment.

    The reason your idea would not work is that there is no duty to conduct a comprehensive search for a prior art before filing a patent application. The reason that there is no such duty is that a full search of every printed publication that is in existence would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Under Federal Rules (37 CFR 1.56), patent applicants are required to submit material art that they are aware of, and patent applicants commonly submit dozens of prior art references for consideration by the USPTO. If an applicant (or its attorneys) violate Rule 56, the patent can be invalidated for inequitable conduct.

    Additionally, due to the billions of prior art references that exist, invalid patents are often granted without any fault whatsoever by anyone. Should my client in Arkansas be punished (for perjury as you suggest) for not being aware of a 1990 paper (written in Greek) that is only accessible by manually flipping through a card catalog in Athens? The 1990 Greek paper, indexed only in a physical card catalog in Athens, would be prior art that could invalidate my client's patent, why should he (or I) be punished for not finding it?

  47. No kidding by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

    Did that Norwegian communist Torvaltos guy every finish his Hurd kernel?

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  48. Re:Patent laws and policies, then sell to governme by duplicatedAccount · · Score: 1
    You are welcome. Please join the askemos project:
    1. make a virtual computer, which processes code just good enough to trust it with law and order
    2. write some code to the processor, which resembles legal acts (like contracting, legal logic...)
    3. patent number 2
    4. have some cofee and watch the legal system beeing locked up
  49. Re:Thank God^H^H^H Darwin by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Patents in general poison the design, engineering and production regimes of progress. They direct wealth to specific individuals, often to what seem to be absurd degrees, at the expense of getting the next (set of) thing(s) done.

    Like many efforts that one can trace back to good intentions, patents represent a spectacular backfire in social planning.

    This wouldn't be so bad (speaking as a US citizen), but we have entirely lost control of our government and can no longer make changes of government systems that have gone bad using any peaceful means. Consequently, we will remain saddled with greater and greater retardation in every regime from fiction to mechanical widgets and large, complex systems.

    I think historians may look back upon this time, specifically upon intellectual property issues, and tag it (quite accurately) as one of the key factors leading to a "dark age"; as progress slows down and eventually reaches a point where it just isn't worth making the effort (and we're not that far off now, I think.)

    You would want something to give when it is so obviously broken, and in this case, that something would be the patent system. But I don't think it will. The government never admits it is wrong... just look at the drug war. Billions spent, and what do we have? Cheaper, better, more easily obtained drugs.

    Well, there's a bright spot... maybe progress can go underground as well. It seems that one of the key factors in "thriving" is to get away from our government. :-(

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.