Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PS3 Announced

News for nerds writes "Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 is slated for release mid-November with support for the Sony PS3 first, and support for the former Apple PowerPC product line to follow. Any updates required to support the Apple PowerPC systems following the release for PS3 will be made available via a free download."

Comments

PSP Homebrew

[WilyCoder]

Given Sony's behavior regarding the PSP and using homebrew on it, I am highly skeptical of this PS3 linux project. How can we be sure that Sony will not resort to forcing firmware upgrades on new games? Some of the latest firmware upgrades for PSP do absolutely nothing but thrwat homebrew attempts. Sony has suddenly done a 180 on homebrew? And for its flagship product?

Lest we not forget how crippled the PS2 linux project was (the $700 one)....

Re:PSP Homebrew

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony had its own linux distribution on PS2 (even if they only did a limited run of it), specifically for homebrew, prior to that they had Net Yaroze on the original Playstation. So PSP is actually the system deviating from the norm here. The reason PSP hasn't had one? I don't know. But the constant firmware updates are to patch holes in the main PSP OS, which if left exposed, could offer avenues for piracy. Offering Linux on PS3 does not in and of itself make the PS3's 'Game OS' any less secure - there'll be updates to that OS, but that's living in a seperate world to Linux, and is irrelevant as far as Linux is concerned.

Re:PSP Homebrew

[drinkypoo]

Sony had its own linux distribution on PS2 (even if they only did a limited run of it), specifically for homebrew

Correct me if I'm wrong but sony never gave away all the information needed to fully utilize the hardware. I won't be excited until I know that will happen this time around. (And STILL won't actually be excited until the systems are available used.)

Re:PSP Homebrew

[SQLz]

Sony is pushing PS3 homebrew development big time. They are building an entire community around Linux PS3 development. This is not normal Sony behavior for sure but, its in their best interest to do so. They are HEAVY Linux in the office ($1 to Microsoft is an investment into Microsoft) and basically, it revolves around the idea that the PS3 is going to be more of a personal computer / home entertainment / gaming box. At E3, Sony exec Izumu Kawabishi said "Because we have plans for having Linux on board the PS3 we also recognise Linux programming activities and we'de like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3". The advantage is that more people will understand the architecture and create cool software for it. Its going to be sweet.

Re:PSP Homebrew

[badboy_tw2002]

They don't really have a choice considering MS is allowing development with full HW access on the Xbox later this year through its XNA program. Having homebrew done on their terms means even less legitimacy for such things as mod chips, and control over things like copyright protection. 3rd party homebrew systems won't get much support because, hey, they already give it to you right out of the box. I don't see this as an issue though - this is a good thing, and hopefully both programs will be succesful enough that console development will open up even further in the future. Listen up Nintendo!

Re:PSP Homebrew

[drinkypoo]

In terms of game development on the hardware, I don't think there were any real restrictions, you just couldn't attach your camcorder or play DVD's.

Actual PS2 games do both. These are both real restrictions. Saying that there's no "real restrictions" when you can't have raw drive access and can't use the i.Link interface is just being a Sony apologist.

I believe that was for piracy concerns - you also couldn't get quality (non-composite) video output when playing a DVD normally on the PS2.

There are those who would say that the PS2 doesn't have quality DVD video output, but it's not because you can only get composite out while playing one. My PS2 is connected only through S-Video and I occasionally use it as a DVD player (although my Xbox does that more often.) You have just disqualified yourself from further participation in this comment. Too bad you're a coward - I guess now we know why.

Cell servers?

[otacon]

Considering IBM is making cell processor blade servers, this release further allows end-users to opprotunity to use that same hardware for production and testing purposes, and at what should be fraction of the price.

seems sketchy

[Aurisor]

As I remember, Yellow Dog Linux was one of the better linux distros for macs back when they were still on the PowerPC platform. Now that the PowerPC platform is pretty much defunct, I can't help but think that them moving to a:

- Unreleased gaming console
- which has been much-maligned for its excessively high price
- and huge production delays
- on a new processor architecture
- using a WM that's not even out of CVS

seems like biting off more than they can chew, and smacks a bit of desperation.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's possible, and once I get a PS3 (once the prices get down to sane levels) I think it'll be a neat product to play with...but I'm just glad I don't own any stock in terrasoft :)

Re:seems sketchy

[gEvil (beta)]

Now that the PowerPC platform is pretty much defunct...

You might want to let IBM know about that. It seems that they didn't get the memo.

Re:seems sketchy

[Blakey Rat]

I agree. Part of me says, "well, that kind of makes sense seeing as they want to stay together as a group and keep doing work..." but a bigger part of me says, "why not just make the next release the last release, and concentrate their talents into some other distro?

Or, even better, make a distro that still concentrates on Apple hardware, but Intel hardware instead of PPC hardware?

Either way, moving to PS3 strikes me as a dead-end. It's been a full year and change, and nobody's figured out how to run custom code on Xbox 360 yet... what makes them think PS3 will be any easier? (For that matter, Xbox 360 has PPC CPUs also and is cheaper, why not try for that goal?)

Re:seems sketchy

[bWareiWare.co.uk]

That would be the same PowerPC architecture that the PS3 uses then. The OS runs on the PowerPC derived PPE, the SPE are no use to an OS. All the OS can do is expose them is some useful way to userspace.

Sony are sinking some serious PR money into Terra Soft (the makers of Yellow Dog Linux) to develop some "PS3 based supercomputers":

http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=773 06D92-BC68-4133-B226-23636E116221

- Unreleased gaming console
The CELL was never going to be only for gaming consoles. YDL will be used on several of the biggest supercomputers in the world in a couple of years, not to mention a bucket load of IBM blade servers.

- which has been much-maligned for its excessively high price
No one ever said hi-end computing would be cheap.

- and huge production delays
Yes, but they are backed by Sony, they will already have their shipments earmarked.

- on a new processor architecture
Which is a derivative of the one they are the leading Linux experts on, and is likely to be a very major market in the coming years.

- using a WM that's not even out of CVS
Their core market is servers so this is totally irrelevant. I suppose they just wanted something flashy for the expos. (you don't get more flashy then a WM that can bring a 2Gb dual core gaming rig to its knees running xterm!)

Re:seems sketchy

[BecomingLumberg]

Or more directly, why not add the PS3 support into the kernel so that all distros can use it?

Re:seems sketchy

[the_greywolf]

- using a WM that's not even out of CVS
Their core market is servers so this is totally irrelevant. I suppose they just wanted something flashy for the expos. (you don't get more flashy then a WM that can bring a 2Gb dual core gaming rig to its knees running xterm!)

Have you used it lately, or are you just being facetious?

E17 uses less than 20MB memory for the entire desktop environment and all the skin flash and bling-bling. (Comare to Gnome, which uses over 100MB alone or KDE which baloons quickly over 200MB!) All E17 needs now is GL compositing and it can replace Compiz as well.

All that and E17 is pretty and neat and fun to use and pretty! Oooh... shiny!

Re:seems sketchy

[jmorris42]

> Either way, moving to PS3 strikes me as a dead-end. It's been a full year and change, and nobody's figured
> out how to run custom code on Xbox 360 yet... what makes them think PS3 will be any easier.

Well since they are announcing a product I'd say Terrasoft (and Terrasoft has a record of real product releases, i.e they ain't the Phantom Console) actually has PS3 prerelease hardware up mostly running. It would also be a fairly safe assumption that Sony is OK with it because they could shut em down pretty easy if they wanted to.

Since the BD-ROM is THE big selling point of PS3 it would be daft if they tried releasing a distro that couldn't see it, perhaps this time Sony is actually going to allow Linux to run unmolested. WIth a proper TPCA implementation that would be possible while still locking games down hard.

Imagine the PS3 running Firefox and OO.o and talking to a wide range of USB devices, including printers, cameras and MP3 players. I just hope Sony imagined it.

Re:Yes, Linux is free.

[Rude Turnip]

Unless you're paying for packaging, documentation, support, etc.

Re:Using the joypad?!

[MBCook]

<sarcasm>Yeah, it's not like the PS3 has USB ports.

Just like the PS2 didn't have USB ports.</sarcasm>

Seriously though, while anyone with a brain would use a USB mouse and keyboard, I'd love to see them make a joypad only interface just for the fun of it. I've got to say this whole thing is interesting, although it certainly doesn't make the $600 price tag any easier to swallow.

Re:hmmm

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"what's a linux?"

A very powerful form of birth control.

The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far

[RichardMarks]

Correct me if any of this is wrong...

I assume the Yellow Dog Linux system will be installed on each harddrive - along with a BluRay system disc for people who need/want to reinstall. I remember someone from Sony saying something along those lines last year.

Full set of PS3 devtools included with each PS3 for homebrew.

The PS3 has full support for USB keyboard and mouse and other standard input devices.

The PS3 will be able to drive a standard monitor at 1080p - 1920 × 1080 rez.

Don't know if there will be two different boot options - or perhaps they will be using some of the OS virtualization stuff Cell supports.

Online gaming will be free - only MMORPGs will be charging.

There will be an online movie/music store.

You will be able to buy/download PS1/PS2 to your PS3 harddrive and play them.

You will be able to buy/download PSP games to your PS3 harddrive and play them on your PSP.

There is stuff where you will be able to stream content wirelessly from your PS3 to your PSP.

1080p games - the list of 1080p native PS3 games seems to keep growing everyday - I think there are about six just for launch and about 10 - 15 I've read about.

1080p BluRay movies

HDMI connector on both versions of the PS3

Full backwards compatibility with PS1 games through software emulation.

Full backwards compatibility with PS2 games through hardware emulation - PS2 chips in every PS3.

You can replace the harddrive with any laptop drive.

Keep hearing about DLNA compliance and people being excited about that - not sure why yet

All that for 499 in the US. Wow.

Also I remember talk of future PS3 versions with more RAM or multiple Cell chips are something Sony is planning. I would die for a dual or quad Cell based system with a couple gigs of RAM running Linux for my desktop.

Re:The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far

[Blakey Rat]

You've listed all the positives of the hardware, but there are some very big questions remaining:

1) Will Sony allow non-Sony code to run on the console? They don't on the PSP. Why would that policy be different for the PS3?

2) If they want to continue PPC Linux development, and want to use a console, why aren't they using the Xbox 360 which shares almost all of the features above, except has CPUs that are much closer to the CPUs inside Apple computers, and has been out for a full year already?

I think what they should do is either dissolve into another distro project (the fewer distros, the better, IMO), or port YellowDog to Intel and specialize in having a distro for Apple hardware.

Re:The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far

[RichardMarks]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/16/sony-to-support- homebrew-with-linux-on-ps3/

"according SCE network system development manager Izumi Kawanishi, the console will ship with a built-in Linux OS, complete with compilers and other tools. It would seem that Sony is indeed inviting homebrew enthusiasts to develop basic applications and game content."

Re:The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far

[poot_rootbeer]

Correct me in turn if any of this is wrong...

Full set of PS3 devtools included with each PS3 for homebrew.

Unlikely. Enabling end-users to do homebrew is anathema to the Sony business plan, Net-Yaroze and PS2 Linux notwithstanding.

The PS3 has full support for USB keyboard and mouse and other standard input devices.

PS3 supports the USB standard. Whether drivers for keyboards and mice will be available is unknown.

You will be able to buy/download PS1/PS2 to your PS3 harddrive and play them.

PS1 possibly, PS2 unlikely. The DVD-based games are too big for most people to consider downloading.

You will be able to buy/download PSP games to your PS3 harddrive and play them on your PSP.
There is stuff where you will be able to stream content wirelessly from your PS3 to your PSP.

Technically possible, although the risk of being another Gamecube/Gameboy Advance Link Cable debacle is pretty high. A consumer shouldn't need to own a PS3 to get the most out of his PSP, or vice versa.

1080p games - the list of 1080p native PS3 games seems to keep growing everyday

Apart from tech demos, I'm not aware of more than one or two PS3 titles that will run in native 1080p.

HDMI connector on both versions of the PS3

Only on the $599 model, last I heard. No HDMI on the $499er.

Full backwards compatibility with PS1 games through software emulation.

Hardware, not software. The PS3 contains the PS2 chipset, which in turn contains the PS1 chipset.

You can replace the harddrive with any laptop drive.

Probably no technical barriers to doing that, but I doubt Sony will officially support any drive they haven't sold you themselves.

I would die for a dual or quad Cell based system with a couple gigs of RAM running Linux for my desktop.

You probably would have to die for such a machine, because Sony's not going to subsidize such a beast with hopes of getting it into your living room.

Re:The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far

[Spruitje]

The only problem is that 256MB is not enough to do much of anything. I mean, you can websurf or read email, but you need minimum 512MB to make a credible desktop system.


Well, you aren't right.
256 mb is enough to run a lot of apps on it.
Most home servers run perfectly with linux and 128 mb.
So, 256 mb should be enough for most tasks.
Second, there is a rumor that sony will be installing linux on the HD with a lot of development tools so you can build your own games.
Third, with linux on it it will also be possible to run MOL on it.
And fourth, if there is enough demand for more memory in the PS3 sony will come with a system with more memory.
It's all market driven.
Maybe, there is a DIMM slot for extra memory onboard (who knows).
What i've heard is that there will be a PS3 version with a multinorm tv-tuner and a larger harddrive on which you can store video (PVR function) and burn the video on blueray recordables.
What sony knows is that the PS3 as a mediahub is the future, something microsoft completely missed with their xbox 360.
And if sony offers this PS3 with larger harddrive, more memory, multinorm tv-tuner (and support for DVB-T, DVB-C and DVB-S) and a blueray recorder I will gladly pay up to 899 euro for it.
To replace my PVR, DVD player and even my CD player.

Re:Using the joypad?!

[Rik Sweeney]

Good God, who the hell modded that up as interesting? Everyone knows that I was joking. You couldn't really expect anyone to use a joypad to write a computer program* You'd use a virtual keyboard.

And a light gun.

*That said, Net Yaroze did

Possible Uses...

[cfulmer]

Hmmm... MythTV front-end?

Having a widely-distributed set-top box capable of running Linux could open up all sorts of interesting projects.

Re:Yellow Dog

[gEvil (beta)]

Well, considering Yellow Dog was developed as a PowerPC distro based on Red Hat, it all kinda makes sense.

Also, the PS3 supercomputer...

[Otter]

I've been grumbling for days about my submisisons on this being overlooked, but Terra Soft isn't just making the OS, they and Sony are building a PS3-based cluster.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled news about Jack Thompson and SCO.

Funny, but...

[hummassa]

my two kids + the fact that I'm a user of Linux for the former 13 years ==> linux is not a really effective form of birth control.
Now, living in mom's basement and not bathing regularly everyday would be.

Re:Yellow Dog

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

I'd prefer to keep with the monopolistic naming convention:

purple iron linux
green wheelbarrow linux
orange racecar linux
and finally silver battleship linux.

I may have missed something but I'm sure another /.er will save the day.

Re:Using the joypad?!

[xenocide2]

Given the asian affinity for DDR, perhaps a Dance Mat input method is in order?

Re:PS3 as a GP computer?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Over priced? not likely. It's the same price as an xbox360 + HDDVD Unit.