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HP Regains Throne as Top PC Maker
Nick writes "HP is once again the leading PC manufacturer." From the article: "HP has snatched the PC crown from Dell's barely coherent clutches. It has taken HP close to three years to once again lead the market in worldwide PC sales. Under CEO Carly Fiorina and post Compaq, the company largely gave up on the tit-for-tat struggle with Dell for the PC top spot that had been so important to it over the years. Now it has reclaimed the #1 slot during the third quarter on the back of Dell's self-destruction. Overall, worldwide PC shipments hit 59.1m units in the third quarter - a 7 per cent rise from the same period last year, according to new data from Gartner. The US PC market, however, dipped 2 per cent, marking its first fall since mid-2002. Dell is particularly exposed to the US PC market, and it showed." Update: 10/20 16:37 GMT by Z : Switched link to a more current story.
Now that everyone knows that HP-hired goons will go through your garbage, sit outside your house, and take pictures of you & your family...it seems everybody thinks HP is great!
I look forward to Sony, Microsoft, and SCO trying this next...
Published: January 16, 2003, 4:49 PM PST Zonk is one of those "special" article submitters, I take it?
It's good to see HP getting results from the vast improvement in PC quality, pricing, and service. My company used to solely buy Dell's, but lately have become frustrated by the 'here today gone tomorrow' pricing. It's annoying for a small business purchasing manager to go into Dell's Home PC section and find the same PC as the Small Business section for $100 less one day, and $100 more the next. Come on Dell, stop playing games with us.
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
This is just the results of dirty back-handed wheeling-and-dealing committed by all corporations and is probably nothing to be particularly proud of.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Am using a Dell 233Mz w/ 64Mb RAM, 4 Gb SCSI disk running NT 4.0, service pack 6a. Has HP got anything that can beat that? I hate to get stuck on the upgrade treadmill, as you might notice...
Firefox, Notepad, & Popcorn are all I mostly use, anyhow.
Or is history actually repeating itself...
LINUX ONLINE POKER: Linux Poker
Yep. Zonk's so afraid, he's posting positive news articles about HP from nearly 4 years ago and passing them off as "news for nerds"!
My blog
HP doesn't make significant profit selling PCs.
It hardly sets any technology standards - those are all set by the rest of the industry.
If Dell is #1 next month, so what?
The vendor making all the money in the PC business is still...
that same company from Washington state.
Wow...Zonk, which drugs are you taking, and where did you get them?
Posts have been submitted from the past directly to today's Slashdot homepage.
As part of an experiment, Zonk set a number of stories in January 2003 while the idea of giving subscribers access to stories before the unwashed masses. Indeed, this story was seen by beta subscribers in 2003 and has suddenly re-appeared after a quantum mishap involving Cowboy Neal zapped a few posts from the database.
Today, they're showing back up as a new singularity in Cowboy Neal's SQL-Optimising-Time-Compressor caused bits originally lost in 2003 to show up in their original state three and a half years later.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Four years ago, I purchased a Dell laptop for my son when he went off to college. It lasted all of a year before the hard drive died. After quite a bit of trouble with customer service reading scripts in Indiglish we finally got an RMA. The machine worked for about two weeks after it was returned and then developed some unrelated problem. Rather than waste another 4 hours on un-intelligible tech support, I bought my son another computer from a different manufacturer. It's worked flawlessly for the past 3 years.
Judging from what I read on the net while I was researching my son's second problem, I don't think my experience with poor quality product and poor quality tech support from Dell is unique.
There's a limit to cost cutting - go too far and you destroy the reason people initially bought from you. In my case, it'll be a long time before I ever buy another Dell. In the past 4 years, that's 3 computers Dell hasn't sold me.
I think the article just has the wrong date
Not exactly. It's just that this battle between HP and Dell keeps going around in circles. 6 months from now Dell will be back on top, a year from now HP, etc. etc. etc., ad nauseam.
I'll put ten bucks on ROTK winning best picture
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Content is correct, just misprint in date ... here's the scoop from The Register
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
With success like this, I think she can look forward to a long and exciting career!
Badass Resumes
Calling HP a top PC maker is like calling Wal-Mart the top retailer. Technically it's true, but that doesn't really tell the whole story.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
I'm about in the same place with Apple. My wife's old iBook G3-600 was in the shop four times under warranty, and she's had to replace the power adapter three times, with the current adapter being a third-party model that is *much* sturdier (and way cheaper) than the crap Apple shipped with the iBook. Against my better judgement, I bought her a new 2GHz MacBook (she much prefers OS X to Windows), and I've yet to get that machine to a usable state. Random shutdowns that resetting the PRAM/PMU won't fix, and the machine won't stay connected to the wireless network for more than 10 minutes at a time when it *is* able to stay powered up. And for those that will ask, yes, it's set to a preferred network and the software is up-to-date, which wasn't easy to do with the constant shutdowns. Which reminds me - I need to call Apple *again* tonight.
It's a shame, as I have a number of older Apples, none of which have given me the first bit of trouble. I just don't forsee another Apple laptop anytime in my future, though.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
...instead of business news?
So, HP is now the top PC vendor.
And this means what? Vista will run in some new, exciting way different from the way it runs on Dells? Interesting new _kinds_ of peripherals will come to market first on HP boxes, the way the Sony 3.5" diskette did?
Or does it just mean (yawn) that on the right day with the wind behind it, some HP models may offer incrementally more RAM or an incrementally faster processor than the equivalent Dell, especially for corporate purchasing agents purchasing them in quantities of a thousand?
How long has it been since HP tried anything like NewWave?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I have worked with both Dell and HP business class solutions. Dell servers suck. I had RAID fail on me numerous times to include both hot spares failing to merge into an array to address a failed drive. In this instance I had to rebuild the entire volume and restore from tape. With Dell workstations lets talk about the GX270 constant issues with power supplies and capacitors going bad. These are known issues with this model yet Dell insists on a one for one swap for each PC. As soon as one PC is fixed and returned to the floor another one goes bad and we have to request either a motherboard or power supply to be replaced. On the other hand my HP DL series servers are like Maytag washers. I practically forget they are running in my racks. The same goes for HP business class workstations.
"Rather than waste another 4 hours on un-intelligible tech support, I bought my son another computer from a different manufacturer. It's worked flawlessly for the past 3 years""
1)Customer looks for tech support number in product manual and literature. No luck.
2)Customer looks for tech support number on web site. No luck.
3)Customer finds the support number by looking in the company's domain registration record.
4)Customer calls number. After being re-routed and bounced and made to call other numbers, customer finally reaches tech support.
5) Customer waits 37 minutes to talk to someone.
6) Customer gets a filtering person, who creates a service record after giving the customer the third degree (When the process is repeated, the filtering person always has to re-create the service record because the previous one forgot to save it)
7) Tech support person asks what the problem is. Customer describes. Support person asks customer to be put on hold. The company disconnects customer after 10 minutes of waiting.
8) Repeat #5,#6,#7 several times. Usually in the same order.
9) Real tech support person on the phone! He asks: "Xvswwwovv wavvwat qzxwzvxx?".
Where were you when the voynix came?
FTA: Hewlett-Packard regained its position as the world's largest PC maker in the fourth quarter, while the industry overall saw shipments increase in the quarter and in 2002 as a whole.
This isn't to say that HP hasn't regained the top spot, but this article actually is out of date. There is no typo. It's the wrong article.
Badass Resumes
Just for the record, never buy a first generation apple. I will wait till they do a complete line update on the macbooks before buying one. Every new design has bugs. Even from Apple. But the story is always revision a models tend to need more TLC(with /without a hammer) than later versions.
My 12" powerbook G4 acted up once. I finially figured out that several of the fonts had gotten corrupted on the HD, ncreasing their size by an order of magnitude.(yea 3 gigs of fonts when it's supposed to be less than 200 megs) and it was doing random things to the OS. I was upgrading to 10.4 at the time so I wasn't too upset. But I also waited until the second or third revision came through of the hardware.
Personally I would deal with it for a couple more months and upgrade to the "new" macbooks when they come out in a few more months. Then sell the old one on ebay for as much as you can.
there is a sucker out there who wll pay you good money and at least underwrite part of the replacement costs.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I have some stats that would actually contradict your situation. I attended a 4 year university in their business school. Part of being in the business school, every student reveived a brand new laptop, and then two years later, you turn it in for another brand new one. When I was a freshment, the school had a deal with HP, and all of us received HP OmniBooks. Everyone complained. They were always causeing problems. The next year, Dell won the bid and now the CIO of the school will not even consider giving the contract to another manufacturer. The reason? The number of hardware related complaints/cases received by the schools help desk dropped 50% after switching to Dell Latitudes.
However, I think Dell needs to seriously reconsider its hard drive suppliers. Whenever I have seen any hardware related problems with a Dell laptop, it has always been the Harddrive. Most people with the school laptops ended up replacing the hard drive at some point during the 2 years the school suppported it. I'm a rare exception and it continues to chug along. The GF's hard drive also failed recently (bought herself, bargain laptop, but from Dell). I believe the hard drive I took out was a Seagate, but I think most of the latitudes have Toshiba, so not sure really what to say there. I have always had success with WD, so I'll be sticking with them.
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get." -- H. J. Simpson
I've installed about a dozen HP desktop PCs in the past 3 years, and probably 30 Dells, as well as 20 HP servers. Problems have been few with both manufacturers. I don't really put much faith in brand x = quality value y. It's all made in China. Both have been pretty good about ease of getting inside the box and getting to slots, drives, etc. That used to drive me crazy about OEM machines. Compaq was the absolute worst.
I'd say HP machines have given me less problems, but not a lot less. Support is abysmal for both companies, but I've become adept at webchatting my way to success without becoming angry or insulting. Either of those will ruin my day and decrease my chance of support giving me what I need.
I like HP as a company, just because it was started by engineers and I loved my hp11c in high school. I'm not very loyal, though. I'll buy whatever the company I'm doing work for buys without complaint. For personal use or friends, I buy on price.
Man, you really need that seminar!
HP has IBM to thank for the lead they now have. Since IBM sold off its laptop division to Lenovo, the corporations ran for cover. I know my own company stopped buying Thinkpads, and now buys HPs... The corporate types want to buy from the biggest, most reliable vendor. For many that was IBM, but Lenovo didn't fit their bill, and I'm hearing a lot of them went with HP over Dell. It is an indictment of Dell and Lenovo more than a vote of confidence for HP.
"Four years ago, I purchased a Dell laptop for my son when he went off to college. It lasted all of a year before the hard drive died."
We've got a fleet of notebooks from Dell, Gateway, and HP. The hard drives in laptops all seem to die much more quickly vs those in desktops. I've always assumed it is due to the increased physical traumua a traveling laptop gets subjected to.
"After quite a bit of trouble with customer service reading scripts in Indiglish we finally got an RMA. "
When Dell sells you a computer, they also offer you a choice of service plans. If you go the cheap route, you get the guy in India reading a script in broken English for hours, and mail in service. If you buy the Gold support, you get a native English speaker, 1 minute hold times, and next-business-day, on-site service. Plus Accidental Damage replacement (you drop it, you break it, you get a new one).
With Dell, you get exactly what you pay for.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Oh come on! Everyone who has ever bought a Dell product knows the difference lies in their customer service...
"Hello these ees 'Dan'...may I be of knowing and becoming on the eashew?"
I told you, Dell is a one-trick pony.
Dell's penchant for hollowing out suppliers is just one of the 'thin-line' tactics that finally knocked the company off. No one wants their business these days and they certainly can't compete in the current growth markets.
Don't expect Dell to ever regain from this...going down, down, down.
Good riddance to bad rubbish!
I think Michael Dell should close the doors and return the money to the investors.
If they don't do something about customer service at Dell then my money would be on HP to stay in the lead.
I have five newer Dell systems at home and at this time I wouldn't buy a keyboard from them due to my recent
experience with Dell customer service. I spent five grand to get insulted by a condescending customer service staff.
No thank you I will pay more for better service.
Telecommuting! What about socialization?
I recently purchased a couple Compaq Presario Computers Model SR1710NX and SR1910NX (I needed basic computers and wasn't looking to spend a lot.) For the price, I was impressed. They used many of the same component suppliers I would if I was building my own box:
Motherboard: Manufactured by Asus with open PCIe slot.
Hard Drive: Seagate SATA drive (SR1910NX, I forget what was in the SR1710NX)
Sure, they're not exactly a full featured systems but I can add to them when I find good deals on stuff I want to upgrade. Quality components, no generic motherboard and no cheaper Maxtor drive, that I would have likley seen from the Compaq of the past in their Presario line. The SR1710NX has been use since Feb, and so far no problems. (Of course I had to get rid of a lot of crap that they pre-install... but all the consumer retail systems come with that)
I now recommend the Compaq systems with Asus boards (you can research that on their website) for friends and family. Figure it's a better bet than a cheap Dell these days. (As for support - my friends and family end up calling me anyway.. so I have no idea how good that is)
--Aaron Greenberg
One of the reasons why HP is cleaning up in the home computer and small business market vs. Dell is because of their physical presence in the local retail channel. Dell is a pure Internet mail order play, with no local retail presence. That was great 5 years ago, when Dell's rivals were bloated, smaller operations who had to maintain a retail marketing and distribution structure that handled dozens of major retailers, in addition to their corporate sales and Internet sales structures. Dell could shave a substantial percentage off the price of each PC as a result, which at the time added up to a couple hundred dollars per-PC, back when the average PC cost around $2000. Dell had no real R&D to speak of either, unlike its competitors - they were free to focus solely on lowering component and assembly costs, using stock standard designs provided by Intel.
Fast forward to 2006 though and the picture isn't so rosy for Dell. The average inflation-adjusted price of a new PC is probably closer to $1000 today. The shipping costs alone can add 5% or more to the cost of a PC, not to mention the added hassle if there's a problem and you need to return it. So Dell's mail order model has become something of a disadvantage. Everybody has implemented the kind of component and assembly optimization Dell pioneered, and they're all just putting together kits of standardized equipment supplied by the same handful of vendors - Intel, nVidia, ATI, etc., so Dell gains no traction there. The standard $1000 PC comes with so many built-in features there's little demand for the kind of customization that once set Dell apart.
On the cost side, Carly butchered HP's workforce, so a lot of the old R&D overhead is gone, and HP has the combined retail channel of both the old HP and Compaq, plus all of their old corporate accounts. There are fewer retail players to deal with as well, lowering HP's costs even more, and HP's size gives them more leverage to push retailers around with. In this new environment, HP is poised to beat Dell at their own game.
The only problem is, this has turned into an extremely low-margin game for all of the players. HP makes a lot of revenue off the PC market, but their margins are all in corporate hardware and services and of course in printer ink that costs more per-ounce than gold. Beyond that, they're now a hollowed-out shell, living off of support for legacy products designed and frequently sold a decade ago. Corporate hardware is slowly marching down the commoditization path as well, though it's probably 5-10 years behind the kind of margin erosion we've seen in the PC space.
IBM saw what was coming and bailed on the PC market a couple of years ago, retreating entirely to the corporate space. HP bet the company on beating Dell, and while it looks like they may in fact pull that feat off, my guess it's going to be a pyrrhic victory. I think the PC market isn't going to be worth diddlysquat in a couple of years. Apple is rapidly carving out a big niche for itself in the only remaining retail segment that's profitable - the high end. That leaves everybody else - Lenovo, HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, Gateway - to squabble over the low margin to no margin mid and low end of the market. I think it's only a matter of time before most of them are squeezed out, leaving probably just Lenovo and either Dell or HP standing.
Which of those two ultimately wins out probably depends upon when the Chinese enter the printer market and begin to consume market share from HP. If it happens within the next 3 years, Dell will probably be victorious, as HP will have its legs shot out from beneath it due to the drop in sales of their highest-margin retail product, printer ink. If cheap printer rivals don't enter the market in the next 3 years, HP will probably survive as the other big player in the PC market, leaving Dell to implode as their revenues continue to decline.
In the end, IBM will probably buy out the loser in that battle, take the corporate hardware and service for its
PCChips is made in China, and so is Gigabyte... Are you going to tell me they have the same quality, because they're made in the same country?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant