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Germany's New Internet License Fee
PapayaSF writes "Beginning January 1st, Germany will require payment of a license fee of 5.52 euros a month on computers and mobile phones that can access TV and radio programs over the Internet. Like the current TV and radio license fees, the money will support national and local public TV and radio stations. German companies with many computers are predictably upset." I'm not sure if this is the same story we discussed in 2004. Did this original fee go through, and this is another fee on top of the original?
There are a few ways that a business computer could be made unable to receive TV or radio streams. Are these sufficient to avoid the tax? Enquiring minds want to know.
I wonder who is so stupid to pay for something they dont use? :)
sex is better than war!
Once they own you, they throw commercials at you. Don't ever pay for something when they show commercials.
There's a similar update of the laws in Sweden. This may very well spread to a lot of countries.
Will the next big thing be an ISP which doesn't give access to the website's of the nations public TV and radio stations' websites?
Or will even The Pirate Bay and Google Video be recognized as sites where you can access TV and radio programs, thus making any such attempts from the ISPs worthless?
Of the in Japan that nobody gives a flying fuck about. From this page: Q. Do I have to pay the NHK man? A. The NHK man is a representative of Japan's state-run television station who goes door to door trying to collect NHK fees, a bi-monthly tax of about 2000 yen that everyone who owns a colour television in Japan is required by law to pay. They are generally very aggressive and threatening, usually sticking their foot in the door so that you can't close it on them, and somehow giving you the impression that dire consequences will ensue if you do not pay promptly. The truth is that although there really is a law, a lot of people in Japan completely ignore it and you can too if you want to. Telling them that you do not watch Japanese TV is not an acceptable excuse, because the law says that everyone who owns a TV has to pay so the best way to get rid of them is to just refuse outright. They are not going to have you arrested and they cannot garnishee your wages so if you don't watch NHK, so you don't have to be intimidated by them. Nor do they have any right to enter your apartment, so if you tell them that you do not have a TV there is no way for them to charge you (be careful if you have a satellite dish though). I predict a similar fate for this one. These laws really are stupidly cussed laws, and everyone knows it. The only thing is that you can actually see if someone is using the internet really easily, unlike a simple TV picking up radio waves. By the way, if this whole NHK tax thing is a big rumour or it's long done with or something, please inform me :)
It is in fact the same story. In 2004 the introduction was first discussed, and now it's reality. It's a little more complicated than stated in the blurb though. If you are already paying the fee for a TV set, you have not to pay for the computer. But businesses normally don't operate a TV set, so they are now hit by the fee.
The fee is due not for watching TV, but for "having a TV set ready for reception of a TV signal". Because the public TV programming is available as an IP stream, every computer that could be hooked to the Internet is "being ready for reception". And don't try to argue that your computer is running Linux and thus not "ready". It is able to run an operating system that could display the TV stream, even though it is not running it right now.
In general you have to pay the fee only once, independent of the number of "TV ready" equipment you are using. Only if you have some private radio/TV sets and some in your business, the fee is due twice (a car radio in a car used for business for instance has to be paid for in addition to the one in your home).
In germany,
...
if you own a device that is capable of receiving public tv or radio than you must
pay a fee of 17.52 Euro/Month (for tv and radio) or 5.x for radio.
But you have to pay only for one device even if you own more.
This money is used to fund the state owned public tv and radio stations across the country
To my knowledge, we have the worlds most expensive public tv with a annual budget of
8.2 Billion Euro where 6.5 Billion Euro are coming from the fee (2004 data).
In 2004 the ingenious people of the public broadcasting sector realized that there are
now some people watching tv using their computer and thus are not required to pay.
They got politics to define computers, mobile phones etc. with internet connections as "novel tv devices"
with the intention of getting the people to pay that dumped their regular tvs for
computers.
For some reason this legislation was postponed until 2007 and is now coming into effect.
Particularly annoying is this new fee for companies. Especially small companies as you
have to pay for tv devices used by the company an extra time. This means that if you
work from home and have payed already for your private tv you will have to pay again for
your business computer with an internet connection.
This created some offroar now because since around 2005 a company is mandatorily
required to do the tax stuff via internet, and therefore by law must have a computer
with an internet connection.
The offroar was ongoing and recently the public broadcasting people have agreed to lower the
fee for internet computers from 17.52 (the tv and radio fee) to only 5.x which is the
fee if you have only one radio.
For me, running a small business from home, that means I will have to pay about 23 Euro
a month for public broadcasting
You might be surprised by the tenacity of retired police officers - paticularly of those in the former East who just recently were used to checking on their neighbours garbage...the remnants of that interlocked State-checks-you-out-whatever-you-do from that socialist eastern times and, farther back, those of a society having produced the Gestapo, are still alive, albeit in a watered down version. /r.
Something an Anglo-Sachson or US mind simply is unable to fathom.
Although the "Homeland" appraoch of of the Bush admin with its
"If you hear something say something" and the like is getting us ever closer.
Needless to say, if the fee is supposed to be justified by the "programming being made available to everyone (with a license)", then it would really have to be
- available (under load - and that means during the evening news or blockbusters, and even at the end game's last minute of a soccer world cup)
- free of Digital Restrictions Management (if only to ensure anonymous access!) and not tied to any particular operating system, let alone a closed-source and expensive one
- at a fee that is substantially lower than for conventional over-the-air transmissions, as the receiver rather than the sender pays almost the entire distribution/infrastructure this way! (Everyone look at your ISP bills, in particular volume-based ones, or care to compute how many TV sets a day you could buy from the fees charged by German wireless operators for receiving IP streaming video, and Internet access in general, on your mobile phone...)
Three more things to consider:So the businesses' outrage at these surreal fees is quite justified.
The German TV companies are so generous (from your money :-) ) to transmit their programmes unencrypted on satellite for everyone to view.
So I can receive German TV and can compare it with our Dutch programmes. What I think is:
- the public TV programmes are of good quality. Maybe not appealing to all viewers, but it is clear that care has been put in making them.
- some commercial TV programmes like RTL are not that bad, but the amount of commercials (and especially the length of commercial blocks) is awful.
- other commercial TV programmes (on a lower budget) are just the re-runs of cheap crap that we have here as well.
It is apparent, also when viewing Dutch public TV or the BBC, that public TV has a place. And also that it does not appeal to everyone.
Germans must love to pay taxes. They have the beloved Kirchensteuer, or "church tax," which amounts to 8 or 9 percent of taxable income for the 28 million German Catholics. Protestant, Orthodox and Jewish wage-earners also pay a church tax for their churches and synagogues. The German Catholic church was handed a cool $11 billion last year by the German Government and brought in another $5 billion on its own. That's an awful lot of money for an organization of just a few thousand priests - barely 150 new priests are joining the Catholic church annually in Germany these days - the average age is over 60! So what in hell are those old geezers doing with all that dough? And why do the Germans put up with such nonsense?
This tax is absolutely shocking.
So, you're sitting there, minding your own business, and the State comes along with what is an absolutely disgustingly expedient excuse of a reason - "your PC is capable of running Windows and is capable of receiving IP and so can be used to view public TV and radio, so you must support that public TV and radio" - and then takes your money.
It's a money-grab. It's simply a method to extract money.
It is utterly, utterly disrespectful to the people the State is supposed to represent; they're not being treated as people, but as wallets, to raid.
It's also absolutely insane from an economists point of view. Taxation inherently discourages growth. There are ways to tax which minimize discouragement. It is absolutely insane to tax in any other way. This tax is criminally stupid.
Finally, the simplest and most profound issue is that this event has *happened*, with all that it illustrates about the relationship between the German State and the people comprising that State.
Originally the amount set was the same as for the TV license, then it was reduced to the same amount as a radio license (17 reduced to 6 I think). There were some of good reasons for this:
- by being so greedy, they had alienated everyone
- the TV programs are not available on the net, or they are available in such poor quality that a PC is no substitute (unless a TV card is installed, but that is a different situation)
- radio programs are streamed to the net in decent quality
Really they should either scrap this fee altogether or only demand it if the radio fee is not being paid.ZDF (= 'Second German TV') is the problem with the second solution - they are a pure TV company who do not have radio programs so they would lose out - and pure greed militates against the first solution. Back when this fee was originally voted on, the German Government were complaining about the 'take whatever you can get' mentality. Well hello guys, look in a mirror.
The GEZ?
Aldi (a sort of WalMart selling groceries + all sorts of special offers) had a special offer selling TVs a couple of years ago. The TVs were boxed up and sold without being displayed. The GEZ wanted a TV license fee for each TV Aldi was selling, even though those devices were not hooked up. The GEZ won the court case. Consider them a mafia with the law and the courts in their rather deep pockets.
This fee is imposed at each location rather than on each device. So far.
As others have said here, businesses have to have internet-capable devices to submit tax-returns.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
The reasoning is that without the ads, the fee would probably be 600/yr instead of 200/yr.
So how do the BBC charge a lower fee, provide more channels of higher quality, run Europe's most popular content-based website and make more original programming, whilst not having advertising on any of their (license-fee-supported) channels?
PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
If there is any further derision of state-funded broadcasting on Slashdot, and talk of "not paying for stuff we don't use" then the British Broadcasting Corp. will send the bailffs over to confiscate the pink Monty Python foot "funny" icon (plus any reference to Spam not concerning canned meat), along with all sigs containing quotes from Hitchiker's Guide, Red Dwarf or The Office. Plus any stories linking to BBC news - but then, that's biassed state-run propaganda, whereas everybody knows that you can trust Fox.
Meanwhile, in the supermarket: "Yes, I know that my grocery bill is $100 but, by my calculation, $5 of that goes to fund commercial TV via advertising campaigns, and I only watch bittorrents of Doctor Who, so here's $95".
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Although I do not support that fee, this is not a big deal. Two reason: First: In germany, you pay a fee if you can receive some publicly funded tv or radio stations. If you pay that fee already, you do not have to pay the extra fee for the internet pc, because it is included. The money is then used to fund some tv and radio stations, which are usually of a really good quality and have little advertising before and none after 20h. The news show "tagesschau" for example is by far the most popular tv show in germany. The prices: If you have a radio (and/or an internet pc), you pay 5 euro something per month. if you have a tv, it's about 17 euro per month (radio/internet included). So: You only pay the new internet fee, if you do not have a radio and you do not have a tv. Second: If you don't want to pay, then simply say them you neither have a tv nor a radio/tv. They then come bugging you at the door, but they have no right to enter your house or apartment and even if they see a tv/radio/computer while you opened the door, it could be your neighbours machine. There is absolutely no legislation that is able to force you to pay.
I have been living in Germany for 15 years now (american). The biggest gripe I have with the fee, as it stands now, is that I don't have an option. If I own a TV, or radio, I must pay, whether I use their service, or not. On top of this, the cost is exhorbitantly high when compared to the cost of cable television--which is another thing that I basically must pay for--and cable service (Premiere).
There is exactly one(!) show that I watch on the government channels, and that show is once a week, for 1/2 hour. When I listen to music, it is through Premiere--not the government endorsed channels. Basically, the money that the government collects I refer to as a privelge tax. I must pay monthly for the privelege of owning a TV and stereo system.
For what its worth, RTL is not a Germany station. It is Radio/Television Luxembourg. While the government may offer a fwe shows of any value, they are far too few to justify how much they collect in taxes every month.
As an american, I don't see the point in subsidizing bad programming. In America, the public stations rely on public support (plus some governmental cash). If you try to tell an american that he must now pay $20/month simply because he owns a television set and a stero, in order to support public channels, you will have the next civil war on your hands.
David
From 1st January 2007 every household in Denmark that has a PC and an Internet connection will have to pay a "media license" of DKK 2090 (EUR 280) annually, even if you don't use your Internet connection to watch TV streams from DR (the national Danish TV station).
The FAQ (in Danish) is here.
It sucks.
Unselfish actions pay back better
Good for you! It's time to stand up to overbearing governments with their continual hunger for more control, more power and more money. You are taking a great stand (though it might be more effective to stay and try and influence future tax policy of Germany). When will countries learn that freedom of the people (in all ways including financial) is the most fair way of running a country. Why let the government decide what to do with your money? Do they know better what someone needs than the individual themself?
-> Sometimes, you just gotta break free from the shackles of proprietary code.