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Apple Unveils MacBook Pro with Core 2 Duo
daveschroeder writes "Apple has just announced the upgraded MacBook Pro (15.4- and 17-inch models) with the Intel Core 2 Duo ("Merom") 64-bit dual core processor. The standard hard drive sizes have been increased, a FireWire 800 port has been added to all models (again, reaffirming that FireWire, and specifically FireWire 800, is not dead, and that Apple responded to customer requests to add it to the 15.4-inch model), and the optical drive is now dual-layer-write-capable on all models."
Also not mentioned is that 2gigs has been made the standard memory size with 1gig only available in the lowest model, with a 3gig option on the 17in version.
Merom is the mobile version, Conroe is the desktop version...
Actually, the Core 2 Duo for laptops is code named "Merom" not "Conroe". "Conroe" is only for desktops. They are virtually identical except for power requirements.
All intel mac models can be used with fink tools with no problem at all since almost day 0. There are some programs which refuse to compile (namely mplayer), but this is only a small minority.
In my iMac I am already using fontforge, xchat and gaim (although I have to admit that Adium is much much prettier)
FireWire 800 was removed from the original MacBook Pro due to technical limitations... there wasn't sufficient space in the enclosure for it (it required an additional chip, as it's not supported by the main logic board). Remember that the original MBP was a rush job, only 6 months from the announcement of the Intel shift. Now Apple has had another 10 months to figure it out, and FW800 is back. So it's not quite accurate to say that they added it "due to customer request."
Hey troll, those batteries were made by Sony, and they were used by Apple, and Toshiba, and Compaq, and... well, by most laptop manufacturers. Put the blame on the real manufacturer, Sony.
I've always been a critic of the premium that one has to pay to get an Apple. So when I saw this article, I was quick to go configure a Dell and point out just how much one can save over the Apple tax.
But it was 25 percent *more* (at least compared the $1999 MacBook). And you *still* have to waste your time reinstalling Windows to get rid of all the circus-ware that comes on the Dell.
It really is no wonder that someone is paying Gartner to try and coax Apple out of the PC business. They'd be idiots not to continue selling hardware.
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Unfortunately, they eliminated the option for a 7200 rpm drive. It's a significant performance hit, if you're doing something that's I/O bound on the hard drive.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Not even close. The Intel Core 2 Duo chips destroy anything made by AMD. This includes price/performance also.
I doubt it - that's a limitation of Tiger (to be removed in Leopard, supposedly), not a problem with the G5.
Conveniently enough, this was just covered on /. a few days ago:
Cool your MacBook Pro
Basically, it boils down to: "Apple, in its quest for ultra, super-duper quietness, sets the fans to run much slower than the speed needed to make laptops usable on laps."
I don't know exactly what kind of Matsushita drive is in the MBPs, but many of them can be flashed to be region free. The behavior you describe is normal for a region locked DVD drive by the way, they're all supposed to work that way.
I read the internet for the articles.
The iMac and Mac Pro are now available with 750 GB drives.
Not sure if this works on the newer Macbook Pros but...
My 1.33 GHz G4 has a Matshita UJ-816 DVD-R drive in it and the way around the region control was to >>>NEVER set the region.
What I did was installed VLC and made sure that it never run the Mac DVD player which (on 10.3 at least) is what sets the region. If you never set the region VLC plays my R1 and R4 DVDs fine.
10.4 will still be primarily 32bit, with 64bit sections where it really matters (the processing libraries for large-data-set apps). It looks like 10.5 is going to be much more 64bit from stem-to-stern with paralell libraries (some changes in the 64bit versions that will mark a change.. because it was an easy place to put the transition) for 32bit and 64bit.
But do note that moving most of the code to running in 64bit mode does not make it faster. In theory you can make 32bit code that uses the new features in the cips without taking the extra overhead of everything going 64bit.
Everyone: Gah! Still only one mouse button!
Ha.. that gripe is now becoming obsolete. On a MB or MBP, put two fingers on the track-pad and press the 'single' mouse button. You will find this has the same effect as pressing the secondary button button on a WinDell or any other PC laptop. I don't know if this works on the PPC Macs. For the desktop Macs there is plenty of alternatives (Logitech, Macally) if you don't like the old one button Mac mouse or the Mighty Mouse. The latter incidentally includes a second and third and fourth mouse 'button' functionality but the ergonomics are not to everyones taste. I'll admit it took Apple much longer than it should have to remedy the 'missing second button' issue in it's product line, the two-fingers-on-the-trackpad feature on the Laptop line was especially long overdue since the old [Ctrl]+MouseClick was pretty awkward.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
"You can get a 7200 rpm drive, its not a standard but its an option. But you have to drop down to 100GB. I think this reflects the manufacturers.
Apple no longer offers any 7200 rpm drive in the 15" MacBook Pros, at any capacity. It's not standard, and it's not offered as an option. The only place it's still available is in the 17" model.
Anyone who doesn't believe me is invited to check the Apple store.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
It looks like the OS X kernel is going to remain 32-bit for the forseeable future, so that it can load 32-bit drivers. But a Core 2 Duo should allow you to run 64-bit userspace.
If Apple responded to its customers' requests, how come there are no left and right mouse buttons? It's still the single most annoying feature and you'd think it should be eliminated by now.
Apple actually has usability experts that test things. Thus, even if a bunch of people who will probably never buy Apple's claim they will if they have two buttons on the laptop, Apple holds off because it encourages both users and developers to break things. If developers are given two button mice as the standard configuration, they will develop with that in mind. Most developers will assume they know better than the user how they will use the extra mouse buttons, so they will assign functions to it, sometimes assigning function only to that control. (Just look at Windows software.) This means all the alternative interfaces break using that software (voice control, mice for the disabled, styluses, etc.). Power users, who often use a multi button mouse no longer have a button to assign to their own custom uses, since developers have taken over that button, and now need one more button on their mice, leading to three and four button mice and the situation getting worse from there.
For laptop users, they will train themselves to use the two buttons on the laptop, leading to a less efficient method. Place your hands on a laptop keyboard. Notice how whenever you're using the track pad you have a hand free, already on the key used for chording the functions of a second mouse button. It is actually less stressful on your hands to use just one button and you get things done more quickly, once you're used to it.
For these reasons Apple is unlikely to ever ship multi-button mice as the standard configuration. For desktops they will probably move to solutions like the mighty mouse, which is single button by default, but can enable multiple buttons. This is ideal for shared machines since power users can have a multi-button mouse while novice users can have a single button mouse, with no one being confused and without switching hardware. For laptop, however, I doubt Apple will enable such a solution, since it does lead to worse ergonomics and slower operation. They'd rather just have users learn the right way to do things.
10.2.8 & Panther (10.3) support native 64 bit math operations in application code when running on a 64 but capable system (G5).
Tiger (10.4) supports applications with 64 bit virtual memory spaces when running on a 64 bit capable system (G5, Core 2 Duo, Xeon 51xx) but ONLY for applications that linked against libSystem, Accelerate.framework and a few others. In other words Tiger supports 64 bit address spaces but only for a handful of libraries.. basically no UI application primarily limited to POSIX. Again like Panther, Tiger supports use of 64 bit math operations in all applications.
Leopard (10.5) extends 64 bit virtual memory spaces support to all system frameworks and libraries. It will support running 32 bit and 64 bit application side by side without any of the limitations of Tiger or Panther.
1) All of the standard UNIX utils plus a lot of extra shiop on the Mac - the default shell is bash and even perl and apache come on it. You'll not need putty because you get a real ssh client and server.
2) Java is not too bad, I've not done anything with that recently but I used to do a lot of Java development on a slower older Mac. The Mac is usually a few months (or more) behind on new Java releases (like 1.6). XCode (the mac development environment, comes with every Mac) understands Java.
3) Way more stable than the old OS 9. I've not had a problem yet with the OS crashing that was not caused by bad hardware (got a bad RAM stick from crucial).
4) You can compile most anything, there are X11 libraries as well that let you compile binaries on the Mac and run with an X11 server.
5) Well it's hard to say what is in that difference. Expresscard is nice because you can use external SATA devices. The screens are good quality, the backlit keyboard is actually really useful. Generally the build quality is excellent overall, however if you didn't appreciate the Thinkpad quality you may still be nonplussed by the Mac features.
6) I cannot really quantify it, because I don't know what fast means to you. Is it as fast as a Mac Pro? No. Is it much faster than my old G4 laptop? Yes. Can I use Aperture and Photoshop on it? Yes.
7) The two-finger trackpad is great for scrolling. Personally I don't use it for right clicking because it is WAY easier to just press "Control" while using the laptop mouse button to get a context menu or do other things that require a right click. AFter all your hand is right there to the side, what else would you be doing with it! I personally think this system works better than any second button arrangement I have ever used or seen on a Windows laptop.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not just that, but if you're a student developer, you can get an even larger discount by getting an ADC membership and using that to take a huge amount off. Student ADC memberships are $99 a year, but the discount is around $500.
Tired of legitimate data sources? Try UNCYCLOPEDIA
If you check this thread http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=38176 on the site you linked to, you will see that indeed, the newer Matsushita drives (830-850 series) used in all MB/MBPs can NOT be flashed to RPC1 or read discs from outside its own region, and all attempts at working on a firmware hack have been abandoned due to the issues I mentioned in my earlier post. Of course there are still many RPC1-flashable drives being made by other companies, but none which will fit in the slimmer slot-load form-factor of the MB/MBPs.
Also note that this behavior is NOT normal for a region locked drive. With most locked drives, you can still use DeCSS-based software such as AnyDVD, DVD Region Free, DVD Decrypter, mplayer, VLC, etc. even if a RPC1 hack is not available. OTOH, only the newest Matsushita drives will flat-out refuse to read encrypted sectors (even in raw/direct mode) when the regions don't match. Software cannot get around this problem because these Matsushita drives won't even attempt to read data from the disc unless the region code matches.
So, unless Apple has dumped Matsushita in the new MBP revision, the only possibility for region-free on a MB/MBP at this time is to use an external drive, and for me that is not an acceptable option.
OK, I'll bite.
1) I stopped using Linux (my primary OS) three years ago when I first purchased an OS X Mac. Absolutely no need for it. I can download and run most open source apps on OS X. It's full blown UNIX.
2) JAVA screams! I develop J2EE apps using Eclipse/RAD to run on IBM WAS / WPS. I currently have a 15" MBP 2.0 GHz, 7200RPM drive, 2GB RAM. On this machine, JAVA is a rocket.
3) I've never had a single kernel panic since I received my MBP in March. Not one. A couple of apps have gone south once or twice, but never the OS.
4) GNU/Open/Free progs run with no issues I've encountered yet.
5) Sounds like you are a value shopper. Go to an Apple store, check for yourself. Personally, I think the build quality, design, etc. is worth the price "premium". If you can't see the advantage a TP has over a Dell, I doubt you will see what a Mac has to offer over a Dell. That's cool though -- we all have different expectations and ideas of value for money.
6) Smoking. SMOKING. SMOKING FAST! Fastest laptop I've ever used.
7) I love the two-finger trackpad for scrolling, and the two-finger tap for right-click works great for me. I must confess, I hated having to hold down control for a right-click with my old PowerBook. It was a nuisance.
2) I find Java performance to be quite good. I played a Java-based flight simulator that ran great on my MacBook. But if there's a particular application that you want to try out, I'd say go to an Apple store if one is nearby and download it to the desktop and give it a whirl. They don't monitor that stuff too closely.
3) I work on a Windows machine most of the time, but my personal system is a MacBook, and I find the latter to be much more stable overall. I essentially never reboot it, unless there is a software update that requires it. I did have the RSS problem, but I'll detail that in the hardware question.
4) There's lots and lots of free (as in speech) software. Apple even has a download section dedicated to it: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_so urce/ . And since you've got Perl, etc., there are a lot of programs you can download and run without even having to recompile.
5) In general, I think workmanship is great. Easy access to parts, long-lasting and reliable systems. Problems do come up, but Apple's pretty good about fixing them. My old iBook is almost 6 years old, and it's my wife's main computer now, and works great. It did have to have the logic board replaced because of a video problem, but they took it and fixed it and returned it in three days without a hassle, even though it was officially out of warranty. My current MacBook has the RSS (random shutdown syndrome), and I just brought it in last night. My understanding is that they've resolved that, and if history is any indicator, I'll still be using this system in 4 years.
6) Speed is subjective, but basically, we're talking about the same hardware you might run windows on, so many--if not most--applications should run just the same. And if you want to run Windows, there's BootCamp, which lets you dual boot, or Parallels, which lets you run a virtual machine without the overhead of emulation. Lots of great reviews out there. Seach /. or google for more info.
7) The two finger trackpad is AWESOME. I mean, it's OK for the second button and all; much better for right-clicking than control-click, in my mind. But the key is two-finger scrolling. Once you're used to it, you'll feel like any laptop that doesn't support it is a toy. Two finger scrolling a pretty great jump forward in human-computer interface.
Hope this all helps!
The CB App. What's your 20?
Unless you stole your Dell, the price I get for a system similar to the base $999 MacBook is $896...
The Dell has a 15.4" screen vs the MacBook's 13.3" but the MacBook has the iSight camera, Bluetooth, Remote and much more software.
You must have compared this low end Dell to the MacBook Pro and not the base MacBook.
I'm sure you're wrong. Stop trying to shoot from the hip, and actually read up on the issue.
The problem is that they're plugging a Merom (Core 2 Duo) into motherboards using the chipset for the original Core Duo (they are forwards-compatible), which is how Mac Mini owners have been upgrading to Meroms for several months now). The Core Duo is 32-bit, while the Merom supports 64-bit. However, the old chipset on the motherboard only supports 32-bit, which means only 32-bit addressing for RAM, which means 4GB maximum. Now, the reason for the 3-4GB discrepancy is the way PCI-e interfaces directly with the memory bus. So video card VRAM etc. eats into that first 1GB.
Apple HQ knows that people sorely need more RAM, but can't do anything about it until Intel provides them with a supply of new 64-bit chipsets specifically for Merom (Core 2 Duo). This won't be until approximately March 2007.
My Mac Pro shipped with a 2-button mouse, but I use my Logitech MX-1000 insted anyway.
Sorry, 2-button mice on laptops are just annoying. I guess you haven't used OS X much -- the right click is not all that useful, and control-click is EASIER than finding the second mouse button on a laptop, where you have to move your hand to find it anyway. On a normal mouse, yes, right-click makes sense, you have a separate finger for it. On the laptop, its just a pain to hit the right button. Your hands are already on the keyboard, why not hit control? How many thousand keys per day do you hit? Is it actually any more work to hit control as you click? Do you complain it's so much work that you have to vary the pressure on the gas pedal and brake in order to drive your car, rather than just hitting the gas once for go, and the brake once for stop?
I doubt you'll ever see Apple ship a laptop with two buttons, it is poor design from a physical standpoint, and from a human interface standpoint. And if you're a Windows user planning on using it as a Windows laptop, here is a secret: I think you'll be better off just buying a thinkpad or whatever. Windows runs almost flawlessly on Macs now, and by Leopard all kinks will probably be worked out. But it's still not 100% as far as I'm concerned, so why put up with that, and why buy an OS X license you're not going to use?
OTOH, if you are planning on using OS X, I think you'd be happy with it the way it ships.
Except for the screen res. That just sucks. 1024x768 was just enough on my 12" iBook. The 1440x900 on the 15" and whatever it is (1680x1050?) on the 17" is sad. I'm glad a have a desktop with a big 'ol Dell LCD.
Weird. I think the Dell comes in at about $400 cheaper for me, with both machines having a few options the other does not. Of course I also would never buy a Dell laptop because of the reliability issues.
1) No. The CLI is as nice as Linux (I think bash is the default shell now) and the integration between the CLI and GUI is better than any Linux distro I've used. If you move a directory using the GUI, your shell instantly knows and reflects that. If you are using apps that rely heavily upon Gnome or KDE, you'll might run into one or two that takes some messing around to get it working (about the same as most Linux distros). I keep a Linux VM around for a few apps because I'm lazy and for testing purposes.
2) Running Java apps is fine. I'm not sold on Safari's java capabilities for multitasking, but Firefox is slick and as fast as anything I've used.
3) I have basically no stability issues for the OS with one exception. On the Intel processors, running PPC apps via the Rosetta emulation layer, I've had Rosetta freeze up once or twice, freezing the apps as well. I have a few poorly written apps that zombie themselves. "kill" takes care of all of the above and it is pretty rare in any case.
4) About the same amount of free software as an average Linux distro is available. Some are ports using the native UI and some are using the X11 environment. As usual, a little tweaking is required sometimes.
5) The machines are pretty solid compared to something like a Dell. The new EFI firmware is still first generation though, so you might want to hold off until the next revision if you want something rock solid. I've had issues with automatically finding or dropping external monitors when I plug them in. I expect that will be fixed on the next generation of machines.
6) It's fast. I can simultaneously run a dozen OS X applications, and a full Windows VM and a few Windows apps at very reasonable speeds.
7) Two finger scrolling rules. Two finger clicking works fine once you train yourself by using it a while, but is not needed much for native apps.
8) There wasn't a number 8, but you forgot about all the benefits of OS X/Apple that you'll find yourself addicted to. Spotlight lets me find things. No really, at nearly instantaneous speeds I can find and launch applications from the keyboard, or find a file that has something in it. Searching based upon the contents of PDFs, word, openoffice, photoshop, text, html, tex, source, etc. all right away. I hardly ever used searching until Spotlight arrived, now I don't think I can go back. Firewire upgrades rule. I no longer spend days getting my next machine in working condition. My last laptop was PPC. This one is Intel. Yet it was a single step to migrate all my applications, files, settings, certs, user accounts, shell variables, macros, etc. It was all sucked over the firewire like magic, and my next upgrade will include fully configured Windows and Linux VMs as well, in that same step. It is heaven. System services are the way all OS's should work. I am using the same spelling checker on this post as I do for my pro layout application, in vi, in my word processor, in my e-mail, and in my chat sessions. App developers don't have to do anything so long as they use the normal APIs and functionality can be global to the OS. I can also apply grammar checking, language translations, scripts, and many, many more functions. It is by far the most under-appreciated feature of OS X. Until you try it, you just don't realize what you've been missing. Using my Windows or Linux workstations or VMs now, is like stepping into the past, to a more primitive, less functional time. It will be a hard, hard task to ever switch to Windows or even Linux as a primary workstation, should I ever need to.
I just priced out a E1505 with the exact same specs as the low-end macbook pro, and it was $1,358.
... whatever
You must be going to a different dell.com than the rest of us. I can't get "the exact same specs", or even similar, from an E1505.
Things that match:
- If I choose the same RAM, CPU speed, and video RAM, I get $1358 (same number as you)
Things that aren't quite "exactly the same":
- assume Windows Media Center is "exactly the same" as Mac OS X
- Dell has only the Radeon X1300, while the Mac has a Radeon X1600
- Dell has a 53 WHr Dell battery, the Mac's is 60 WHr battery
- the Dell is thicker and heavier
Then there are the things that the Dell just plain doesn't seem to have on this model for any price:
- DVI
- digital audio input and output
- Firewire-800
- gigabit ethernet
- Bluetooth (Dell says this is "optional" but I didn't see how to add it)
- built-in camera
- keyboard backlight and magnetic power connector (fun yet practical!)
What if I don't want iLife, iPhoto, etc... They shouldn't force me to pay $2000 for it. I'll take the hardware and download the freeware applications that I want.
Nobody's forcing you to buy anything. Or rather, if Apple is "forcing" you to pay for iLife, then Dell is "forcing" you to buy Windows.
In fact, for what you can get Mac OS X for separately ($200 for a family 5-pack) compared to Windows (a bit under $100 for the OEM version, last I checked), you're actually paying *less* for the software on a Mac than a Dell -- which makes sense, since you're getting so much more hardware.
No, I'm not a Mac owner, but finding a Dell with far fewer features than a Mac, and showing that it can be had for less money, is not evidence of Macs being more expensive for the same featureset. Try again.
Yes, you are correct. I meant the FSF, not the EFF.
I don't think you understand what he's talking about. You're talking about booting off of an external drive.
Target Disk Mode is different. It allows you to use your laptop (or desktop) *as* an external firewire drive with another computer. If you hold the 'T' key when you turn on the computer it will go into target mode and display the firewire symbol on the screen. You can then use a firewire cable to plug it into another machine and access the hard drive. When you're done you press power to turn the machine off, then you can boot up normally. Because this is part of the Mac hardware (firmware?) it works regardless of what state your OS is in, or even if you don't have one. This comes in handy for pulling your data from a machine in emergency situations, such as an OS dying, the screen on a laptop breaking, etc. As far as I know this cannot be done over USB.
I'm not vhemontly anti-Dell, but screw them. They really aren't the best deal in town these days. MBPs were good a year ago, but a week ago they were obscenely overpriced. I'm glad to see them back in the game. In any case, I need a new laptop. I've just spent a LOT of time looking.
I use 17" and won't use anything less, so that cut out most things. Core 2 Duo or Turion X2 was a must. That cut out Apple until this announcement, but I went and compared some specs anyhow. The truth is, the MBP was way overdue for this upgrade. 120GB is barely over middle-of-the-road for a laptop HDD. Any "Professional" machine with less than 2GB of RAM is a joke. The procs were fast but 32-bit only. The video cards were... okay.
One thing that jumps out at me is that Apple (and Dell) just don't seem to take advantage of the larger case that comes with the larger b>display. For a year or two now, HP's 17" laptops come with things like a built-in numpad (in addition to full-size keyboard) and two hard drive bays. For a desktop replacement (without lugging an external HDD as well), dual bays is the capacity upgrade we've all been waiting for.
A lot of the great stuff that comes with Macs is no longer new or exclusive. The magsafe power adapter aside, pretty much everything hardware-wise except FireWire 800 (vs. 400) is available in PC laptops. ABG wireless, BlueTooth, built-in webcam, et al. Dual-layer DVD burners are a standard now, and even LightScribe is fairly common. A few laptops even have options for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray now (at a major premium, but hey... it's still under $2800...)
A new PC laptop can come with up to 512MB VRAM, 4GB RAM (for an absurd amount, but it can... 2GB is very common) hard drives up to 200GB/disk, all the Merom or Turion X2 goodness, TV tuner cards, 1680x1050 resolution, and more.
The crazy thing is you can get a HP dv9000 with dual HDD, 2GB system RAM, 512 MB VRAM, TV-Tuner card, Lightscribe dual-layer burner, ABG and Bluetooth, Webcam, 1680x1050 res on a 17" display, and a decent Core 2 Duo for... ~$2000. Knock off some of the options, and you can get a MBP-like system for close to $1600. It doesn't come with OS X... but it does come with Media Center, and if you buy it now the upgrade from Media Center to Vista Home Premium is minimal.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...