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Apple Unveils MacBook Pro with Core 2 Duo
daveschroeder writes "Apple has just announced the upgraded MacBook Pro (15.4- and 17-inch models) with the Intel Core 2 Duo ("Merom") 64-bit dual core processor. The standard hard drive sizes have been increased, a FireWire 800 port has been added to all models (again, reaffirming that FireWire, and specifically FireWire 800, is not dead, and that Apple responded to customer requests to add it to the 15.4-inch model), and the optical drive is now dual-layer-write-capable on all models."
Also not mentioned is that 2gigs has been made the standard memory size with 1gig only available in the lowest model, with a 3gig option on the 17in version.
Merom is the mobile version, Conroe is the desktop version...
I hope they continue to support Target Disk Mode via Firewire 800, and even if they had a similar way of doing the same thing with USB would be nice - that feature has saved my ass an innumerable amount of times. It makes for a nice troubleshooting option and makes things like Carbon Copy Cloner possible... glad to hear that Apple is not sending FireWire the way of the floppy disk just yet.
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Apple has just announced the upgraded MacBook Pro (15.4- and 17-inch models) with the Intel Core 2 Duo ("Conroe") 64-bit dual core processor.
Screw that. I'm waiting for the MacBook Pro with Intel Core 2 Duo Twin Binary Pair featuring Extreme II Bifurcation technology.
Actually, the Core 2 Duo for laptops is code named "Merom" not "Conroe". "Conroe" is only for desktops. They are virtually identical except for power requirements.
Mac guy yesterday: why do you need a Core 2 Duo? Mac hardware is better that Dell and more expensive because it's better better better
Mac guy today: I've been waiting for months for Apple to release the Core 2 Duo, finally now I can buy the MacBook of my dreams -- the Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro is the BEST COMPUTER EVER, EVER!
Windows guy: huh?
All intel mac models can be used with fink tools with no problem at all since almost day 0. There are some programs which refuse to compile (namely mplayer), but this is only a small minority.
In my iMac I am already using fontforge, xchat and gaim (although I have to admit that Adium is much much prettier)
Maybe it's just me, but this is the first I've heard of 2,5" HDs > 120 Gb...
Wow. Finally a laptop with enough storage space.
(/me being cursed with a company laptop with a way-too-small 20 Gb disk)
Was it OSX causing the problem, or was it the first Macbook Pro hardware?
TIA...
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
All of the previous MB/MBPs use Matsushita drives with extremely strict region control, and since I have a large collection of both R1 and R2 DVDs, this rules out a Mac for me. The Matsushita firmware will flat-out refuse to read a disc (even raw sectors) if the region doesn't match, so software tools like AnyDVD and DeCSS-based players like mplayer/VLC don't work. Also the drives' firmware code is encrypted and signed with high strength public-key crypto, which makes a RPC1 firmware hack virtually impossible (some hackers tried but gave up after multiple expensive mistakes because the drives brick themselves if any attempt to read or modify the firmware is made).
I'm most interested in finding out who makes the new 6x DL burner used in the 15" MBPs. If the new drives are NOT Matsushita then it looks like I'm getting a MBP... otherwise no way.
But does it run the entire MacOSX in 64bit mode? (Something the G5 newer really did).
Hey troll, those batteries were made by Sony, and they were used by Apple, and Toshiba, and Compaq, and... well, by most laptop manufacturers. Put the blame on the real manufacturer, Sony.
I've always been a critic of the premium that one has to pay to get an Apple. So when I saw this article, I was quick to go configure a Dell and point out just how much one can save over the Apple tax.
But it was 25 percent *more* (at least compared the $1999 MacBook). And you *still* have to waste your time reinstalling Windows to get rid of all the circus-ware that comes on the Dell.
It really is no wonder that someone is paying Gartner to try and coax Apple out of the PC business. They'd be idiots not to continue selling hardware.
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has been Core 2 Duo capable for months and I could put one in if I wanted to do so
Yea.. you go find yourself a Core 2 Duo to drop in that Acer laptop of yours. I think Walmart sells them.
Unfortunately, they eliminated the option for a 7200 rpm drive. It's a significant performance hit, if you're doing something that's I/O bound on the hard drive.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Not even close. The Intel Core 2 Duo chips destroy anything made by AMD. This includes price/performance also.
Lithium fires aren't that dangerous. Just decompress the cargo bay and hang on to the laptop for dear life.
Simple, probably a size constraint.
The iMac and Mac Pro are now available with 750 GB drives.
I'm still waiting for a Conroe-based Mac.
iMacs use the laptop version of the chip, and Mac Pros use the server version. This leaves a pretty big gap for people in the market for something in the middle.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
I guess you have never taken a look at the Apple refurb store then. I saved $500 on my MacBook Pro and that put it under $1,500. Yes, it is a 15.4" and not a 17". But that is okay because I travel around a lot with mine and the 17" MacBook Pro was just too big.
I also physically compared the Apple 17" to the various Dell 17" offerings (easy to do since I live in Austin, TX). You mention the screen resolution as a distinguishing characteristic between the Dell your wife bought and the Apple 17". Let me mention another difference. I can fit two MacBook Pros in the same physical space of the Dell offerings (yes, there is a bit of exaggeration, but not much!). So, what is the value of a much smaller footprint for what is supposed to be a mobile computer? It's really anyones guess.
Everyone: Gah! Still only one mouse button!
Ha.. that gripe is now becoming obsolete. On a MB or MBP, put two fingers on the track-pad and press the 'single' mouse button. You will find this has the same effect as pressing the secondary button button on a WinDell or any other PC laptop. I don't know if this works on the PPC Macs. For the desktop Macs there is plenty of alternatives (Logitech, Macally) if you don't like the old one button Mac mouse or the Mighty Mouse. The latter incidentally includes a second and third and fourth mouse 'button' functionality but the ergonomics are not to everyones taste. I'll admit it took Apple much longer than it should have to remedy the 'missing second button' issue in it's product line, the two-fingers-on-the-trackpad feature on the Laptop line was especially long overdue since the old [Ctrl]+MouseClick was pretty awkward.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
OK, the specs on the new MacBooks look great; however, the price difference between my Dell E1505 Core2Duo and a similarly configured MacBook is $1000.
I'm interested in hearing from people who use both Linux and Mac extensively. The majority of people I've seen recommending either Linux or Mac don't seem to know either very well. So they end writing some bullshit statements about the capabilities/incapabilities of both that just look stupid. I think they read something on the Internet somewhere, maybe five years ago, and still think it's true.
Some of the questions I have:
1) Do I need to install Linux to make it useful? I.e., on a Windows machine I install Cygwin and lots of Unix-like tools such as bash, gvim, putty, perl.
2) What's the performance under Java like? On dual proccy machines (my Opteron, Core2Duo), Java screams. Can I expect the same performance under OSX?
3) How stable is it. Macs are traditionally easy to use, but as I've owned dozens of Macs (and used to sell them too) I can attest that they were not the most stable machines out there (up until the first OSX spin). But browsing the knowledge bases and user forums (the BEST place for info) I see lots of issues.
4) How much Free software is available? Can GNU/Open/Free programs be compiled easily and natively? I'd think because it's more consistent than the hundreds of Linux distros, this would be true...
5) How solid is the workmanship. Hey, I get mocked at work because of my Dell, but it was cheap and it's fast. That's usually all I need. My Thinkpad is better built, but the $600 price difference was not worth it. What makes the Mac worth the extra $1K?
6) How fast is it? Remember, I used to own lots of Macs. I know that the PowerPC Macs were not so fast in everyday usage as the equivalent Intel/AMD chips. If you quote some meaningless statistic and some Apple press release I will laugh at you because I used them on a daily basis for years. But Macs now have a new OS, new chips... On real world apps (Java, video, disk), how do they stack up?
7) How does the two-finger trackpad stack up against real buttons? I.e., it's software to emulate two physical buttons. I've not used it before. Any drawbacks?
I've been holding off getting a new work laptop, waiting for the new Power^H^H^H^H^HMacBook Pros to come out, so I could get my OS X fix on someone else's tab, but I am disappointed to see there is still no 12" PowerBook replacement.
It's not a showstopper for me, because realistically a 15" vs a 12" notebook isn't a huge issue (heck, I might even get a 17"), but it would truly have been great to see a 12" PowerBook replacement that wasn't the redheaded stepchild the 12" was...
It's a shame to see there isn't a 7200rpm hard disk option. However, 2G of RAM *standard* is a bold (and welcome, given OS X's hunger for memory) move by Apple that makes up for it. On the downside, as has become ironically typical (from a company that stresses its graphically-oriented heritage and having the "first" mainstream OS that really took advantage of GPUs for acceleration) it's a shame to see weak video hardware on "Pro" hardware, with no faster BTO alternative.
I'm kinda curious as to how you calculated your prices, other than running with the lazy meme of how to compare prices. But what really threw me was your lauding the eSATA interface, something I've only heard nasty things about, especially about how it isn't hot-swappable and a real pain to connect/disconnect. Pray tell, where can you get a professional videocamera with eSATA but not Firewire?
The lack of a card reader may seem a pain, but those are slots in the case that could admit dust/dirt, as well as taking up real estate inside the case. Considering what they pack in there and how much care is given to make the layout not interfere with ventilation, I have no problem getting an el cheapo external cardreader.
Next time you critique the Apple laptops, though, I suggest you get rid of that huge chip on your shoulder. Your antagonism towards Apple is pretty blatant.
"You can get a 7200 rpm drive, its not a standard but its an option. But you have to drop down to 100GB. I think this reflects the manufacturers.
Apple no longer offers any 7200 rpm drive in the 15" MacBook Pros, at any capacity. It's not standard, and it's not offered as an option. The only place it's still available is in the 17" model.
Anyone who doesn't believe me is invited to check the Apple store.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
If Apple responded to its customers' requests, how come there are no left and right mouse buttons? It's still the single most annoying feature and you'd think it should be eliminated by now.
Apple actually has usability experts that test things. Thus, even if a bunch of people who will probably never buy Apple's claim they will if they have two buttons on the laptop, Apple holds off because it encourages both users and developers to break things. If developers are given two button mice as the standard configuration, they will develop with that in mind. Most developers will assume they know better than the user how they will use the extra mouse buttons, so they will assign functions to it, sometimes assigning function only to that control. (Just look at Windows software.) This means all the alternative interfaces break using that software (voice control, mice for the disabled, styluses, etc.). Power users, who often use a multi button mouse no longer have a button to assign to their own custom uses, since developers have taken over that button, and now need one more button on their mice, leading to three and four button mice and the situation getting worse from there.
For laptop users, they will train themselves to use the two buttons on the laptop, leading to a less efficient method. Place your hands on a laptop keyboard. Notice how whenever you're using the track pad you have a hand free, already on the key used for chording the functions of a second mouse button. It is actually less stressful on your hands to use just one button and you get things done more quickly, once you're used to it.
For these reasons Apple is unlikely to ever ship multi-button mice as the standard configuration. For desktops they will probably move to solutions like the mighty mouse, which is single button by default, but can enable multiple buttons. This is ideal for shared machines since power users can have a multi-button mouse while novice users can have a single button mouse, with no one being confused and without switching hardware. For laptop, however, I doubt Apple will enable such a solution, since it does lead to worse ergonomics and slower operation. They'd rather just have users learn the right way to do things.
"Microsoft Office Test Drive". That's a nasty one.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Hey Apple, where's the ultraportable laptop with max. 3lb weight?
You've shown with iPod nano that you can do wonders in small scale, but your laptops are not reflecting your capabilities in this regard. They are currently just waaayyy too big and heavy for everyday and everywhere portability. So no Mac switch for me.
Is it safe to buy a MacBook Pro now? Is this considered a version 2?
I've learned not to buy version 1 of an Apple product unless I want to get cut by the bleeding edge.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
I'm a Windows user, but I think Apple laptops are great. However, I would never buy one until:
1-It ships with a 2-button mouse. When is Steve Jobs going to give up this obsession with a 1-button mouse. And, I don't care about "gestures". I want 2 mouse buttons.
2-WUXGA. If I'm going to lug a 17" laptop, I want WUXGA. I'm typing this from my Sony A690, and I'd never go back to anything less.
Not just that, but if you're a student developer, you can get an even larger discount by getting an ADC membership and using that to take a huge amount off. Student ADC memberships are $99 a year, but the discount is around $500.
Tired of legitimate data sources? Try UNCYCLOPEDIA
2) I find Java performance to be quite good. I played a Java-based flight simulator that ran great on my MacBook. But if there's a particular application that you want to try out, I'd say go to an Apple store if one is nearby and download it to the desktop and give it a whirl. They don't monitor that stuff too closely.
3) I work on a Windows machine most of the time, but my personal system is a MacBook, and I find the latter to be much more stable overall. I essentially never reboot it, unless there is a software update that requires it. I did have the RSS problem, but I'll detail that in the hardware question.
4) There's lots and lots of free (as in speech) software. Apple even has a download section dedicated to it: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_so urce/ . And since you've got Perl, etc., there are a lot of programs you can download and run without even having to recompile.
5) In general, I think workmanship is great. Easy access to parts, long-lasting and reliable systems. Problems do come up, but Apple's pretty good about fixing them. My old iBook is almost 6 years old, and it's my wife's main computer now, and works great. It did have to have the logic board replaced because of a video problem, but they took it and fixed it and returned it in three days without a hassle, even though it was officially out of warranty. My current MacBook has the RSS (random shutdown syndrome), and I just brought it in last night. My understanding is that they've resolved that, and if history is any indicator, I'll still be using this system in 4 years.
6) Speed is subjective, but basically, we're talking about the same hardware you might run windows on, so many--if not most--applications should run just the same. And if you want to run Windows, there's BootCamp, which lets you dual boot, or Parallels, which lets you run a virtual machine without the overhead of emulation. Lots of great reviews out there. Seach /. or google for more info.
7) The two finger trackpad is AWESOME. I mean, it's OK for the second button and all; much better for right-clicking than control-click, in my mind. But the key is two-finger scrolling. Once you're used to it, you'll feel like any laptop that doesn't support it is a toy. Two finger scrolling a pretty great jump forward in human-computer interface.
Hope this all helps!
The CB App. What's your 20?
I'm sure you're wrong. Stop trying to shoot from the hip, and actually read up on the issue.
The problem is that they're plugging a Merom (Core 2 Duo) into motherboards using the chipset for the original Core Duo (they are forwards-compatible), which is how Mac Mini owners have been upgrading to Meroms for several months now). The Core Duo is 32-bit, while the Merom supports 64-bit. However, the old chipset on the motherboard only supports 32-bit, which means only 32-bit addressing for RAM, which means 4GB maximum. Now, the reason for the 3-4GB discrepancy is the way PCI-e interfaces directly with the memory bus. So video card VRAM etc. eats into that first 1GB.
Apple HQ knows that people sorely need more RAM, but can't do anything about it until Intel provides them with a supply of new 64-bit chipsets specifically for Merom (Core 2 Duo). This won't be until approximately March 2007.
I just got the older Macbook Pro. This is like emerging KDE on Gentoo, right about the time it finishes they release a newer version!!!!
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
I want a small MacBookPro too, to replace my 12" G4 PowerBook.
If they release anything it'll be a 13.3", which is still better than the 15.4".
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
I just priced out a E1505 with the exact same specs as the low-end macbook pro, and it was $1,358.
... whatever
You must be going to a different dell.com than the rest of us. I can't get "the exact same specs", or even similar, from an E1505.
Things that match:
- If I choose the same RAM, CPU speed, and video RAM, I get $1358 (same number as you)
Things that aren't quite "exactly the same":
- assume Windows Media Center is "exactly the same" as Mac OS X
- Dell has only the Radeon X1300, while the Mac has a Radeon X1600
- Dell has a 53 WHr Dell battery, the Mac's is 60 WHr battery
- the Dell is thicker and heavier
Then there are the things that the Dell just plain doesn't seem to have on this model for any price:
- DVI
- digital audio input and output
- Firewire-800
- gigabit ethernet
- Bluetooth (Dell says this is "optional" but I didn't see how to add it)
- built-in camera
- keyboard backlight and magnetic power connector (fun yet practical!)
What if I don't want iLife, iPhoto, etc... They shouldn't force me to pay $2000 for it. I'll take the hardware and download the freeware applications that I want.
Nobody's forcing you to buy anything. Or rather, if Apple is "forcing" you to pay for iLife, then Dell is "forcing" you to buy Windows.
In fact, for what you can get Mac OS X for separately ($200 for a family 5-pack) compared to Windows (a bit under $100 for the OEM version, last I checked), you're actually paying *less* for the software on a Mac than a Dell -- which makes sense, since you're getting so much more hardware.
No, I'm not a Mac owner, but finding a Dell with far fewer features than a Mac, and showing that it can be had for less money, is not evidence of Macs being more expensive for the same featureset. Try again.
this hardware limitaion is the same no matter what os
Wouldn't the way to get past the 4GB limit be to just use a 64-bit arch and OS, which Merom is?
As far as I understand it, the 4GB limitation (which leads to the 3GB application maximum, since 1GB is mapped by the kernel) is basically inherent in 32-bit architectures. There are hacks, of which PAE is the largest, that allow the processor to address more than 4GB of RAM, but even then you can only have 4GB per process. (Or is it 3GB per process? I don't really understand that. It can't be more than 4, that's for sure.) The processor uses extended memory addresses when it is "talking" to the RAM, in order to use the stuff that's in excess of 4GB, but it translates those addresses into fake 32-bit addresses that it presents to running processes, so each one thinks that it's just got 4GB (or less) to itself.
PAE is basically just a hack that shoehorned a larger address space into a 32-bit architecture; if you're in 64-bit-land (as Mac OS X is), then there's no reason for PAE to exist. All processes running in 64-bit mode should see the whole address space and thus you ought to not only be able to address huge quantities of physical memory from the processor, you should be able to give 4+GB chunks to individual processes.
Apple saw this limit coming up and switched from 32 to 64 bits, at a time when a lot of people derided them for this. They took a step backward with the early Intel Macs, but now they're getting most of their product line back there. Even if it is technically a hardware limitation and not software that creates the 3GB/4GB limit, since Windows' lackluster support for 64-bit is one of the reasons why ia32 is still "standard," it should get some portion of the blame.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
OK so apple has been listening to users, and finally seen the light and brought firewire back from the dead, but what about the modem
.....
the new mac book pros, look interesting, but why would apple not include an internal analog modem
and yes I know the argument, that everywhere has broadband/wireless etc, and that apple does "sell" an external USB modem.
well not everywhere has broadband, and wireless tends to be horribly expensive (well here anyway), so dialup is the only way to go when traveling
this reminds me of the bad old days when apple did not even include analog audio ports on the powerbooks, and how long did it take them to wake up to that one
I'm not vhemontly anti-Dell, but screw them. They really aren't the best deal in town these days. MBPs were good a year ago, but a week ago they were obscenely overpriced. I'm glad to see them back in the game. In any case, I need a new laptop. I've just spent a LOT of time looking.
I use 17" and won't use anything less, so that cut out most things. Core 2 Duo or Turion X2 was a must. That cut out Apple until this announcement, but I went and compared some specs anyhow. The truth is, the MBP was way overdue for this upgrade. 120GB is barely over middle-of-the-road for a laptop HDD. Any "Professional" machine with less than 2GB of RAM is a joke. The procs were fast but 32-bit only. The video cards were... okay.
One thing that jumps out at me is that Apple (and Dell) just don't seem to take advantage of the larger case that comes with the larger b>display. For a year or two now, HP's 17" laptops come with things like a built-in numpad (in addition to full-size keyboard) and two hard drive bays. For a desktop replacement (without lugging an external HDD as well), dual bays is the capacity upgrade we've all been waiting for.
A lot of the great stuff that comes with Macs is no longer new or exclusive. The magsafe power adapter aside, pretty much everything hardware-wise except FireWire 800 (vs. 400) is available in PC laptops. ABG wireless, BlueTooth, built-in webcam, et al. Dual-layer DVD burners are a standard now, and even LightScribe is fairly common. A few laptops even have options for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray now (at a major premium, but hey... it's still under $2800...)
A new PC laptop can come with up to 512MB VRAM, 4GB RAM (for an absurd amount, but it can... 2GB is very common) hard drives up to 200GB/disk, all the Merom or Turion X2 goodness, TV tuner cards, 1680x1050 resolution, and more.
The crazy thing is you can get a HP dv9000 with dual HDD, 2GB system RAM, 512 MB VRAM, TV-Tuner card, Lightscribe dual-layer burner, ABG and Bluetooth, Webcam, 1680x1050 res on a 17" display, and a decent Core 2 Duo for... ~$2000. Knock off some of the options, and you can get a MBP-like system for close to $1600. It doesn't come with OS X... but it does come with Media Center, and if you buy it now the upgrade from Media Center to Vista Home Premium is minimal.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...