Slashdot Mirror
UK Woman Charged As Terrorist For Computer Files
Terror Alert Brown writes "Reuters is reporting that a UK woman has been charged as a terrorist because of computer files on her hard drive. According to the article, these files included 'the Al Qaeda Manual, The Terrorists Handbook, The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook, a manual for a Dragunov sniper rifle, and The Firearms and RPG Handbook.' She was picked up in connection with the plot stopped in August to detonate explosives in airplanes flying out of Heathrow airport. Now might be a good time to delete any copies of the Anarchist's Cookbook you once read for amusement and still have floating around on your hard drive."
She was linked to terrorists, and the files are evidence.
She wasn't arrested and charged BECAUSE of the files.
there is a difference.
I am hoping that there were other lines of evidence against this woman as this is what we need to be very careful about here in the US. The concept of a thought crime is not new and any society that starts prosecuting individuals for books they may possess or for studying things is becoming a a darkness right out of an Orwellian nightmare.
Hell, as kids we had copies of the Anarchists cookbook and manuals that the US government printed for crafting insurgencies and survival that had all sorts of directions for creating improvised munitions and such. It makes me wonder if we would have been suspects back then. Of course the early 80's were a different time when a couple of 14-15 year olds could carry a rifle out in the Texas countryside to shoot cans without even a second glance. Now, we have bastardized Republicans (Neocons) who are out to create National IDs, document any passage in and out of the country, search our personal information including credit files and library files, and some even propose to index all of the information on personal computers in an effort to screen out "enemy combatants" not to mention revoking Constitutional rights such as Habeus Corpus. It's a strange time.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
When the Mujahideen Poisons Handbook is outlawed, only outlaws will have the Mujahideen Poisons Handbook.
...that the EU rules on flight were strictened for basically no logical reason, but based on the horsecrap Blair is feeding to the UK and the world.
Basically the overwhelming majority of experts on the field confirmed that liquid explosives and things like dirty bombs are not feasible or existant.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
I'm from the UK and heard this story on the radio today
My HD still has the anarchist cookbook and all sorts of shite in my home directory. Stuff I copied from friends on floppys back when I was a 13yo.
I am honestly getting worried where CCTV Blairs Britan is taking us.
No I've nothing to hide. I've nothing to share either.
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
Uh, if you'll excuse me, I need to go hide my D&D Player's Handbook. Yeah, it's first edition, but you can't be too careful, I guess.
"the Al Qaeda Manual, The Terrorists Handbook, The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook, a manual for a Dragunov sniper rifle, and The Firearms and RPG Handbook."
I of course misinterpreted the acronym, but they sure do look like RPG manual titles, don't they? "Dungeons and Dragunovs". Did they read them? They'd feel rather silly I bet if they said "At level five, you can learn Mujahideen Sneaky Poison Attack that does 2d6 damage if you roll..."
Not to be flippant, but even the summary points out that she was arrested in connection with a bomb plot, and then these documents were found. Presumeably the prosecution's case will rely on drawing that connection, with the manuals as circumstantial evidence. Frankly if that's the best they have the case may fail, but if it's part of a larger collection of evidence (like that which lead to her arrest) then it may not. The justice system has held up fairly well as fair as maintaining standards of burden of proof even in terrorism cases, so barring something like false arrest I'm not feeling any rights violations here.
The enemies of Democracy are
Slashdot, the only place where a blow-coffee-through-nose remark gets modded insightful.
a terrorism icon.
Don't forget the missing intermediate steps of encrypting it, and then making a backup copy on secure, durable media.
Someone who has all these files on their hard drives is either a compulsive packrat or might be up to no good... certainly it might raise a few eyebrows. But it shouldn't be illegal to possess these things, and isn't, yet. If possessing certain types of knowledge becomes illegal in and of itself, that's when we'll need the Anarchist's Cookbook the most.
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
Not to be playing RPGs (role playing games). RPGs are likely to get you shot by a gun-toting law official who thinks you're Sauron even though you're pretending to be a well-armed hobbit.
Some of us bought the book ( and others like it ) many years ago, when it was still legal to read, and information was not restricted. Now we may pay for exercising our rights back then since the rules have changed since then.
Once knowledge becomes a crime, freedom is gone.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Good thing you are trolling. Anyhow, the article doesn't mention any link other than that she happens to have same manual on her computer. Interest in these *manuals* doesn't require a person to be a terrorist. She could be a hobbyist or a paranoid pschizophrenic. She was probably a source for the terrorists - and possibly had no idea what they were planning. Dont jump the gun.
In the meantime, if you are seeding any of those BT's maybe its time to del. =P
Experts have pointed out that the UK peroxide bombing plot, as discussed, was wildly implausible.
You are completely correct that both liquid and binary explosives exist. Nitroglycerin has been used as an explosive in the past.
However, the restrictions on carryon luggage didn't seem to be solving any actual security problem and don't really seem intended to. (If you're really worried about binary explosives, why make them pour the containers into the same bin, in front of what could be hundreds of people?)
I think people are jumping to conclusions. It sounds to me like she has more on her then simply having the material that she had. The police say that she was connected with the terrorist cell that was busted up earlier. If she is just an innocent bystander with some sketchy reading material she got out of curiosity (not malicious intent), then I imagine nothing is going to come of this. On the other hand, if she is connected to a terrorist cell and has more then just some questionable reading material, let her burn. I personally will reserve judgment about whether or not this is a violation of her rights until after the charges have been made clear. The little blurb in TFA really doesn't give enough information to judge if this is an over reaction or not.
I think the most terrifying aspect of this whole thing is that she was arrested not because of anything she did, but rather because of her association with others the government doesn't like.
This isn't justice; it's not even close. It's more like vigilantism with official sanction.
How long will it be before merely showing an interest in "Terrorist Causes" or "Terrorist Methods" - however defined by the government - is enough to get one arrested? Or has it happened already?
Democracy in Britain is officially dead.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
The Cookbook and plenty of others that won't help you accidentally kill yourself are available quite legally.
Maybe this will help:
I can buy lockpicks and lockout tools legally. I can buy manuals to unlock any vehicle, also legally.
If I'm busted for conspiracy to steal (as opposed to lawfully repo) cars, that stuff becomes evidence along with the rest of the evidence supporting the charges.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
The write-up is wrong. Now is the time to download ALL the above-mentioned documents, and share them. Let them try to arrest all of us.
I could be charged with being heterosexual for the pr0n on my hard drive...
you had me at #!
I am in full agreement. If reading this article scares you into deleting your text files, then the tyrants running our governments have won, and the citizens have lost.
Now is the time to download and collect as much information on these subjects as you can. Voice your opinion through your actions. If "We the People" believe, in our so-called democracies, that holding such information shouldn't be a criminal offense, then our governments do not have the right to tell us that it is.
Unless, of course, you all disagree...
I caught the Mountain Wumpus! He gave me his treasure chest ($100) to let him go free again.
"Right thinking people" is a phrase that always deeply disturbs me.
Advanced users are users too!
Better be careful, carrying lock picks in certain jurisdictions is a crime. Including Washington D.C.
Try this: google for "cia manual"
You find things like:
KUBARK Coercive Questioning - Counterintelligence Interrogation (Torture)
A Study of Assassination (Assassination)
Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare (Terrorism)
and so on.
Now, I wonder how much material on her hard-drive came originally from the US?
I am not sticking up for her or for terrorists or for barnyard sodomists, but I do have to wonder about karma.
For fun, you can google for "School of the Americas"
For extra points: go to Wikipaedia and look up "Mujahideen". Look under "Afghan Mujahideen". See who organized, financed, armed and trained them.
Shake your head and marvel at how stupid OUR governments can be.
So ... who's going to provide a link to where we can all download said handbooks?
Allegedly, the Mujahadeen Poisons Handbook is somewhere on Hamas' "official web page" but damned if I know what that is. Probably in Arabic anyway.
According to the very entertaining "Allies Against Online Terrorism" blog, it was at one point mirrored on a Yahoo site, but was removed.
So who's going to step up and mirror them, if we should all have a copy, eh?
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
"so you're a cop, and this guy is bringing a night vision scope into the country"
You realize they sell those things at Costco, right?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I'm sure a handful of other people are posting it as I'm writing this, but here's a link to the Mujahideen Poisons handbook.
Also, the Al-Qaeda Manual (interestingly, this was distributed by the FBI)
The Dragunov sniper rifle manual
No luck searching for the RPG & Firearms handbook.
(If she was implicated in a child pornography ring, and found with lolikon on her PC - I bet you'd be among the first frothing at the mouth to hang her high.)
Do you know the parent poster personally? Who are you to imply that the parents morals are so easily compromised that they would forget their stand on due process and hard evidence just because some hypothetical woman wanted to touch little boys (or girls or monkeys for that matter) in the hoo ha and make them put their mouth in her fish bowl?
For all you know, the parent poster will still demand that due process be followed and that we avoid arresting people for perfectly legal things on their computer.
NB: as far as I know it is perfectly legal to have the documents listed in TFA on your computer.
I can't think how to explain this succinctly. All the nerds in the world can download all the anarchist cookbooks they want, but that isn't going to stop the government from selectively prosecuting only the people they want, and totally ignoring the rest. It's not even like the general public is going to notice what you have on your hard drive, and move to have whatever law changed so that we aren't techincally criminals anymore.
--something witty
Calling a chemistry student who admits to working off from second hand reports, and then guessing as to the process involved, and who doesn't have any stated expertise in binary explosives or especially the formulations or processes that may have been developed by real chemists with a background in explosives working for Al Qaeda, an expert is a bit much:
Given the history of peroxide based explosives used in terrorism, I wouldn't want to assume that he was right about the chemical process, the inteded use, and the practicalities of it without a lot more evidence from someone with direct knowledge of all three.
This doesn't even get into the question of his status as a neutral commentator.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
If we were all going to perform out acts of protest and civil disobedience quietly from our basements, you would be right.
But who does that?
When you protest you do your best to make sure you are visible. In this case you would do things like distributing fliers and CDs with the forbidden documents. You would let everyone know that you have these things. You would make sure that either the government has to persecute you (and thousands like you) too, or admit their hypocrisy.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
Are you trolling? I laughed so hard at your comment, but then it hit me that you might not have been.
A "Republican" form of government has nothing to do with the "Republican" party. A "Republic" is a country with the body politic restrained by laws.
A "Democracy" is a synonym for "mob rule."
A "Democratic Republic" (the United States, Great Britain, et al.) is a system of government where the will of the people is restrained by laws. See the dinner analogy above involving two wolves and a sheep.
A "democracy" is not a "framework of laws" - it simply means majority rule. Forget Bush bashing.
DATABASE WOW WOW
That's the world we're walking into.
We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
So... do you know, for certain, that everyone you know, or have exchanged files with or phone messages or mail or time with, is *not* or *will not in the future* be considered a criminal or a terrorist?
Years ago I dated a woman for several months who was arrested (and eventually convicted) as being a courier for a methamphetmine distribution ring a few months after we ceased seeing each other. I had no idea what she was into, but I was visited many times by police officers who grilled me at length as to our relationship - because my phone# was in her cellphone and there were "handwritten documents" - letters, notes, journal entries - in her domicile that had my name on them - and threatened with prison for being "non-cooperative"; my apartment was searched twice, and details of the investigation leaked to local reporters.
I was "associated" with a drug ring, although I had no knowledge nor involvement in it. Fortunately I was cleared without being indicted or subpeoned, but only after several months of random interrogation and very annoying, obvious and aggravating surveillance which cost me reputation and money. Many months later there were still people spreading damaging rumors about me; I eventually moved more than a thousand miles from there, partially for personal reasons, but also because my business dried up to an extent as a result of the attention. One of the things the police threw at me was our intense exchange of phone calls over that short period. They just didn't seem to believe that maybe I was interested in her because she was an attractive woman. I spoke to a local lawyer about it who told me there was no recourse - iow, I couldn't sue the local police department for the damage caused.
I'd like to note that no public statement was ever made by the local PD regarding my innocence, despite repeated demands on the part of me and my lawyer to do so. That, to me, was criminal negligence on the part of the local PD. How many times does one see public apologies for ruining someone's life in that sort of circumstance? IF this woman turns out to have been innocently duped, will she ever recover her life? What recourse might *she* have?
In the US, we have this oft-repeated yet apparently little understood concept called "innnocent until proven guilty". Or at least we used to.
I'm not defending the woman in the article (insufficient data), but I am trying to point out just how damaging baseless allegations can be, especially when made by "authorities" and spread by the media - and if you think that you are immune to it, you might want to reconsider that. It can happen to anyone; don't think you're immune to it simply because you are innocent. People in a society are interconnected, that's why we call it a society. What are you going to do, avoid all connections with other people? There was another sort of damage there - I'm even more paranoid than I used to be when it comes to relationships. Can I sue them for it? Should I? I've been advised against it, as the burden of "proof of damages" would be too difficult. But the damage is very real.
So tell me, friend, where should the line be drawn?
snarked
Don't be silly. Just because someone claims they are a Muslim doesn't mean they are automatically follow all the rules. You could also say that assuming a woman is a Christian she should would definitely not be filthy or a whore as well. You could also note that Christians are great neighbors because they won't envy anything of yours, commit adultery, or steal.
Let me give you a hint: the woman is a human being first and foremost. Whether she claims to be a Muslim or Christian (or other religion), she must first reconcile her normal human 'vices.'
I know it is politically correct nowadays to compensate for negative biases against Muslims by providing positive ones. This counteracts the reality in most Muslim countries where most Muslims are no more virtuous than most Christians are in Christian countries. The negative biases aren't generally true nor are the positive biases. This also applies to Buddhists, Jews, etc.
Britain has become the showcase of how to facilitate big brother socialism. They have more cameras per capita than any other country I know of and plan on adding more and to add microphones and loudspeakers to them. Civil rights have been abrogated to the point of non-existence. I didn't know how close to current times the movie V for Vendetta was. This is normal for the UK, after WWII the government completely disarmed the populace and were well on the way to this state until WWII interupted. They did rally and win in the face of crushing odds. I don't think that the modern British citizen is capable of that amount of fortitude anymore. I feel this way mostly because the elimination of their rights has went with mostly a whimper.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
The write-up is wrong. Now is the time to download ALL the above-mentioned documents, and share them. Let them try to arrest all of us.
I think it is safe to say you missed the essential elements of what happened, so lets recap what we know from the news:
The arrested was Samina Malik, 22, an Asian woman who allegedly was working or had worked at Heathrow airport as a shop assistant. (Could she have been an insider at a juicy target for terrorists?) She has been charged with four offences under the Terrorism Act 2000.
Malik was allegedly associated with Sohail Anjum Qureshi, previously charged as part of the same investigation. How was he nabbed? It is alleged that on 18 October he was plotting to go to Pakistan (well known as home to various terrorist organizations, training camps, and the gateway to Afghanistan)(groups in Pakistan have been tied to a number of attacks planned against the UK) taking with him, among other things:
-Camping equipment
-£9,000 cash
-A night vision scope
-The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook
-Two metal batons
-Combat manuals
It is alleged that was taking terrorist materials to Islamabad..
Investigators then followed the trail from Anjum, back to Malik. Allegedly, she had a number of publications on her computer from what look to be a narrow range of interests:
The al-Qaeda Manual,
The Terrorists Handbook
The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook
How To Win Hand-To-Hand Fighting
The Firearms and RPG Handbook
Dragunov sniper rifle manual
9mm pistol manual
Anti-tank mine manual
(Fascinating reading for a 22 year old woman, isn't it? Do you think her goal was to be the life of the party?)
She was allegedly filling a writing pad full of handwritten notes, which led to one of the charges against her. (Any bets about what those notes were about? Hmmmm... Heathrow... Pakistan... Al Qaeda....)
No doubt there are other aspects of this that we don't know about. As it is, you have to scour several news reports to get this much.
Woman charged in terror investigation
Female terror book suspect in the dock
Airport worker on terror handbook charges is remanded
Woman charged under UK terrorism act
Too many terrorist plots to name, say MI5
Woman charged under anti-terror laws
Now, I very much doubt that she is in trouble simply for having those document in and of themselves. What is likely the case is that it is the combination of what she was doing, involving herself with some sort of terrorist cell, AND having those documents. That is trouble in the same sense that having a crowbar in the garage means you have a crowbar in your garage, whereas having a crowbar in your hands at 3:00 AM in back of somebody's house in the next town over means you have a burglar tool, which will make you subject to heavy penalties.
I doubt that the authorities have much interest in trying to arrest people for simply having those publications. Everything I've seen seems to indicate that their hands are more than full simply trying to cope with the small percentage of people that both have those publications and are trying to use them in attempts to kill large numbers of people. You may also want to keep in mind that the more false signals you generate, the less effective the police will be in tracking down those who are trying to kill you for being, take your pick: an infidel, British
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
yes, exactly. I was a little shocked to see this in the summary:
Now might be a good time to delete any copies of the Anarchist's Cookbook you once read for amusement and still have floating around on your hard drive.
No, that's what they want you to do. This is manipulation through fear - a hallmark of 'terrorism'.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
because I've got all the equipment to carry that out.
By that reasoning, you can't touch a terrorist or a terrorist recruiter until he or she succeeds. Even if the intelligence agencies had known about the 9/11 plot, they wouldn't have been able to arrest Atta and company until they attacked the stewardess--by which time it would have been too late. And by the same reasoning, Osama bin Laden is innocent.
This is why every country makes conspiracy a crime. You don't have to take any action to commit the crime yourself to be guilty; facilitating the act is enough. These laws are centuries old, not recent developments. And yes, attempting the crime is illegal--you don't get off a robbery charge if there is no money in the till. Incompetence is not proof of innocence.
With terrorism, the weapon is not just the explosive, or the knife, or the gun. The weapon is the gullible young man or woman primed to commit the act. These are human bullets, and the people who recruit, indoctrinate, train, and equip them--the puppet masters--are the real terrorists, serial killers who can count these recruits, along with the targets of those recruits, as their victims. Don't confuse this with freedom of expression, which restricts itself to civil discourse. This is not even civil disobedience, it is cold blooded murder. There are plenty of radical islamists in England who shout "Death to England" at rallies, and they aren't arrested (although many people think they should be.) But once they take concrete steps to bring that about, they are committing a crime. This woman was working with the puppet masters. They only investigated her because of her connection to a known terrorist cell.
There will always be more marginal youths to recruit, no matter how many prisons you build to house them. Perhaps the hottest debate in Europe today is whether you can tolerate an ideology which is inherently intolerant, and which refuses to present itself in free and open debate, but instead deals in threats and attempts to squelch all voices outside itself. Where does freedom of speech stand when encountering an ideology which wants to end freedom of speech, for everyone, forever? Britain asserts too much control on both sides. On the one hand, they have cameras everywhere, and near complete Orwellian surveillance. On the other hand, they've passed a hate speech bill which protects religion, which means that you can't challenge radical Imams who run madrassas to indoctrinate that next generation of terrorists. There are a lot of things happening over there that deserve criticism. Arresting this woman isn't one of them.
They should look at MY hard drive - got nuclear weapons plans there from Cryptome just last week! Not to mention every military weapons and improvised weapons and explosives manual and hacker book there is.
Bwahahahaha!!
And with MY background, they REALLY would be concerned.
Of course, I'm white and not Muslim...
When I got arrested for armed bank robbery back in 1993, the judge was provided copies of papers from my room. He didn't know whether to poop or go blind. All he could say was that he didn't think some of the stuff there was possible.
He was wrong. Someday somebody somewhere (other than me) will prove him wrong.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
And by a better life you mean being arrested for reading books? She is probably thinking she was better off in her native country where at least she knew what she wasn't allowed to do. Not in a country that claims she is free to read what ever she want then arrest her for it. Besides how is reading or being in the possession of those books showing ingratitude to the country she is in. Maybe she simply wants to educate herself about terrorist tactic so that she can more readily identify and report them to the police?
I myself have downloaded and partially read some of these books and similar books out of sheer interest.
I'm sure there is more to this story than we are getting, and that the official that arrested her probably have a half way decent reason for arresting her. If they were in the habit of arresting anyone who had downloaded or shared those books via a peer to peer network then they would seriously have their hands full arresting thousands of people.
If you must!