Game Industry Folks Siding With the Wii

Gamasutra's semi-regular feature taking the pulse of folks in the game industry turns its attention this week to the PS3 and Wii launches. From the comments submitted to the site, it seems that many industry vets are generally more excited about the Wii than with Sony's offering. From the article: "'Definitely a Wii (already pwii-ordered). The price point of the PS3 and the lack of enticing launch titles makes me as interested in a PS3 as I am interested in getting a root canal.' — Ryan Conlon, Gearbox Software. 'I am buying a Wii because Sony is too arrogant, from their dev tools to the price point.' — Ed O'Tey, Electronic Arts. 'Wii — pre-ordered. I applaud the attempt to expand and explore game interaction with the Wii. I will not be purchasing a PS3.' — Jim Perkins, EA Canada"

Comments

Yes

[Xiph]

It probably has something to do with Nintendo trying to do things in a new way, while Sony/MS are "just" doing the things they do better. Novelty and originality does count.

Re:Yes

[PieSquared]

On the same note, the 360 and PS3 are both pretty much a graphics upgrade. Which means two things, first that (if you have a HDTV, which I don't) it'll look prettier. Second, there is allot more effort, and time, and money, going into making a game for them. If people thought there was too much of a problem with sequels instead of innovation last generation, it'll be worse today: for the 360 and PS3.

With the Wii, though, Nintendo is pretty much forcing developers to innovate at least a little, in order to properly use the controller. If I want a graphics update, I'll get a new card for my PC. I go to a council for a distinctly different experience then a PC, usually based on the controller, since that is the real difference. And now, the Wii makes the controller even *more* different then the PC, which to me is an even greater reason to play. That and it doesn't cost *that* much money.

Re:Yes

[Proud like a god]

"I go to a council for a distinctly different experience"

How about just going to a console? ;-)

Re:Yes

[interiot]

On the same note, the 360 and PS3 are both pretty much a graphics upgrade.

Actually, the Xbox's network service has a definite step forward, better even than what PC's have (other than not being free). It's got 1) integrated IM that works the same across all games, 2) seamless brain-dead demos and xbox live games, 3) worldwide leaderboards in just about every game, 4) achievements and gamerscore.

And if you can pretty much get the controller for the PC via the Gyration mouse. http://youtube.com/watch?v=piEz74G6WPA http://youtube.com/watch?v=HUGabGDLg8g

Re:Yes

[Total_Wimp]

Novelty and originality does count.

Yes, but not as much as you may think.

-I love Belgium beers. The U.S. buys Budweiser.
-I loved Firefly. The world loves Desperate Houswives.
-I have art over my mantlepiece. The suberbanites put a large mirror there.
-I love that little place down the street. The U.S. loves Applebees.

It really doesn't matter what you think of the Wii. The lines waiting for teh PS3 this morning were completely full. The prices on eBay are already legendary. You won't see that with Sunday's launch of the Wii.

I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking that origionality or quality actually "count" in the grand scheme of things. But that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy your Wii anyway.

(I would caution those who champion the Wii to take a closer look at what they're doing. They're saying it's great before they've even seen a unit in person. Some guy in another thread insinuated that PS3 purchasers were acting like sheep. Proclaining the Wii as "superior" without haveing every played it is absolutely no better)

TW

Re:Yes

[Phoenix00017]

I would argue that it's a bit more than a graphics upgrade, especially on the part of the PS3. The Cell architecture will allow much more advanced AI and physics, among other things. This has the potential, if the developers take advantage of it appropriately, to really make some new offerings in gaming. We're seeing PCs take the same path with the introduction of the Physx physics card and a dedicated AI chip. The other big step is pure processing power harvested as the ability to present many more entities on screen. Look at Assassin's Creed or Dead Rising as games that have started to use crowd effects to great advantage.

Re:Yes

[soft_guy]

Some guy in another thread insinuated that PS3 purchasers were acting like sheep. Proclaining the Wii as "superior" without haveing every played it is absolutely no better

It is a little better. The people who are twirly eyed over the PS3 do so based on three characters: P S 3. The people who are twirly eyed over the Wii have been following the tech news on the various consoles, read probably multiple articles and even hands on reviews on the subject.

Also, I suspect that it will hard to buy either a PS3 OR a Wii this Winter Shopping Orgy (Christmas). Both companies will be able to sell everything they can bring to market, although perhaps the scalping on the Wii will only be 50% as bad as on the PS3.

Re:Yes

[SetupWeasel]

Yeah, but Belgum beers, Firefly, art, and that little place suck.

We're talking about the Wii here. Stay on topic.

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

The lines waiting for teh PS3 this morning were completely full. The prices on eBay are already legendary. You won't see that with Sunday's launch of the Wii.

That demonstrates a difference in supply, not demand. Demand for the PS3 can't really be measured at this point, aside from the vague statement that it is "bigger than the supply." Since the supply of the Wii will be much larger -- by some reports a full order of magnitude larger -- the demand would have to be absurdly high to result in huge lines and skyrocketing eBay prices.

To make a similarly meaningless statement that skews the other way: On Monday morning, it is extremely likely that more people in North America will own a Wii than will own a PS3. This is just as accurate as your claim, but it similarly fails to convey any useful information for comparing Wii and PS3 popularity.

Not that I'm saying the Wii will be more popular than the PS3. I'm just saying we have nothing to base a comparison on at this point, and nobody will until supply for both consoles is to the point where you'd expect a typical North American video game store to have at least one of each in stock at any given time.

Re:Yes

[elrous0]

In his defense, the "little place" he's referring to is a brothel. And I prefer it to an Applebees too.

-Eric

Re:Yes

[ehrichweiss]

"You could even have a small boot section that decrypts the rest of the OS."

I'm guessing you haven't heard of the "bootloader" in terms of removing copy protection? They even use them on some of the best smartcard technology out there so it'd be quite the challenge to get this to remain a viable option.

Re:Yes

[Gilmoure]

But...what if I just like to play with myself? None of that network stuff matters.

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

hahaha, so you're saying that the target market is the 5% of people who have an HDTV * the 25% or so of those who play games? good luck selling that one.

Re:Yes

[7Prime]

If that's Sony's strategy, it's the stupidest, and most arrogant business strategy to date, seeing as though the HDTV adoption rate is still pretty low (and not expected to increase drastically for the next few years), and the current figures are only about 15% of TV owners. People yell and screem bloody murder when Microsoft releases an OS upgrade that will only run on the top 75% of currently owned PCs, and Sony's gunning for the top 15%!!!

Re:Yes

[rlwhite]

Then your Wii will give you the most pleasure, but I suggest you get out more.

Re:Yes

[Alef]

Then your Wii will give you the most pleasure, but I suggest you get out more.

Only on slashdot, "getting out more" equates to playing multiplayer games online...

Re:Yes

[slashbob22]

something in it will make _me_ look inane

I think you misspelled insane.

Re:Yes

[Total_Wimp]

So us Nintendo fanboys get to sleep in with out girlfriends and still pick up our console of choice.

I know what you were trying to say, but you gotta admit that typo is pretty funny :-)

TW

Re:Yes

[yarbo]

I have a 15+ year old TV from a hotel

I've heard of stealing the towels before, but I never thought about the TV...

Re:Yes

[AArmadillo]

Two problems with this. First, is Amdahl's law. Colloquially, Amdahl's law debunks the fallacy that if one woman can have a baby in nine months, then nine women can have a baby in one month. Let's say the average game has 75% code that is parallelizable. Quite a feat, to accomplish that. Then by Amdahl's law, you would see a maximum speedup of 2.9 for 8 processors over one processor, assuming all processors were equal (hint: on the cell, 7 of the cores are just fancy FPUs). To compare, you would see a speedup of exactly 2 for a three processor system. A 45% increase in performance for 266% more cores is not a particularly good tradeoff, and this again is assuming that all cores are created equal.

Then, of course, there is memory bandwidth. The Cell has one memory bus to serve eight cores. In addition, local memory bandwidth for read in the Cell is 16MB/s, from Sony's own slides. Thus Sony recommends (on the next slide) to not read from local memory, but to write out to main memory and read from that. So eight cores are going to be constantly contending for the main memory bus. That is a horrible situation in hardware if I've ever seen one.

Re:Yes

[Mad Marlin]

The Wii is the first game console I have even been interested in since the Sega 32X expansion for the Genesis. And I want someone to figure out how to hook those controllers to the PC!

Re:Yes

[dockthepod]

You are confused with some of your figures. Each SPU has access to 256K of local cache. This is very very fast memory... no misses. They can't directly access main memory, so there isn't really contention. However, the programming model is more complicated. Nothing console devs can't handle ;) The 16MB/s figure (if that's correct, don't remember exactly...) is related to reading VRAM (sony confusingly calls this local memory) from the Cell, something you don't generally have any reason to do. The GPU has fast access (~20GB/s) to the Cell's memory (called Main Memory) which is much more useful. You can split up your texture usage between the two memory pools and cut down on memory contention. Anyhow, too many winter brews, so I'll stop rambling.

Well...

[voice_of_all_reason]

I'm getting nintendo solely because the effort required to get a PS3 was analagous to a real life game of Dead Rising.

That THAT is why I want a wii

[Thansal]

The standard post the people bring up when ever we start drooling over the Wii (and we do drool a bit)is that is is "all about games".

Well, when people that are involved in making the games express prefference on the Wii, I sorta feel compeled to think that the Wii will have more games (and more importantly, a diverse selection).

the anounced titles for the next year (Wii vs PS3) has be interested in 3 games coming out on the PS3, and about 10 games on the Wii.

Based on this article.....

[LordPhantom]

.... I can see that "many game industry experts" also like posting as Annonymous Cowards as well! (Disclaimer: I love the Wii and will be buying one long before a PS3, but if they're saying "here's a list of game industry experts" they should get rid of the ones who won't post their names. Sheesh.)

Poor Sony

[trmj]

Literally. Didn't they lose some redonkulous amount of money this year due to PS3 R&D? I mean, overall as a company in previous years the gaming department was the only thing keeping Sony afloat, then they go and spend all that money on a system that the industry doesn't even back. Not to mention that the XBox 360 is poised to take Sony's spot in Japan, due to the insanely low price point of the system. Can I get a netcraft troll to confirm it?

Re:Poor Sony

[Red Flayer]

I mean, overall as a company in previous years the gaming department was the only thing keeping Sony afloat

What? Whose ass are you pulling that out of?

Sony's recent financials show that Sony Pictures, Sony Games, and Sony Financial Services have been sharing the load -- and the games division has been responsible for less than 1/3 the operating income the last two years, and slightly over 1/3 in 2004. For 2006, Sony Financial Services dominates their operating income.

Re:Poor Sony

[deckstuff]

xbox 360? japan? more ps3's were sold on the first day in japan than the number of xbox 360's sold in japan all year long

http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten.htm

of course DS sales (and presumably the wii) > ps3 + xbox360

Ironically enough...

[fatty ding dong]

Nintendo is the only company with a next-gen system that ISN'T trying to force a new media standard on gamers. In the past, Nintendo was always the odd one out (sticking with the old cartridges, small optical disc instead of CD or DVD). Now, Nintendo is tapping into the mainstream while the other big two are forcing their standards on gamers. It cost Nintendo when they absolutely had to have their own unique media, now it appears Sony and MS will repeat the mistakes of the past.

Show the gamers a game that makes good use of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and they may buy some of the hype. Until then, all glory to Nintendo.

Re:Ironically enough...

[MBraynard]

Show the gamers a game that makes good use of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and they may buy some of the hype. Until then, all glory to Nintendo.

360 isn't forcing a new standard on anyone. You can get an HD-DVD if you so choose, but it won't be required for games - it just saves you some space and money if you areally are interested in HD-DVD.

Nintendo, on the other hand, doesn't offer you so much as a DVD player along with the Wii - they are stricter than the other guys in terms of forcing a standard with a format exclusive to them and them alone.

Re:Ironically enough...

[saboola]

The Xbox 360 runs on standard DVD, not HD-DVD. Just to clarify your post a bit. You can buy an HD-DVD addon now for the 360, but it only plays movies not games. Microsoft and Nintendo our both taking the standard DVD route.

Re:Wii Campers?

[tuffy]

Since there's going to be plenty of Wiis available, there's little incentive to camp out for one to make a quick buck on eBay.

Re:Wii Campers?

[Kimos]

I wonder... why I have seen no media stories about loads of people camping out in front of stores, for a chance to snag a new Wii?

That's because, in theory, there are plenty of Wiis to go around. Nintendo is manufacturing millions. It shouldn't be hard to get one within the first week or so. At least that's what I'm banking on and from what I've read I don't seem to be alone. With the PS3 everyone knew they didn't make enough to meet demand...

Jab at MS: I tried to pre-order but every store I went to said that after the Xbox360 scandal they've ditched pre-orders almost all together.

Re:Wii Campers?

[trmj]

I believe you'll find your answer here.

It is all Relative

[jcrash]

It depends on what you want. If you are looking for certain titles, you will be getting a specific console. If you are looking for the MOST games, you will probably be getting a Nintendo. If you are price-conscious (as virtually all consumers are), you will definitely get a Nintendo.

Nintendo is making the right move at the right time. Assuming they decide to come out with a wiii (i.e. next generation of console) faster than the others do, they will then be able to price is similar to this model and maintain their consumers. Honestly, $700 starter cost for a console is probably out of reach for around 80% of the average gamers. This is a market where you are going to make more money in the middle than at the leading edge.

Development Costs

[wooden pickle]

Developers also probably like the Wii from a financial sense. I R not a game programmer, but it's got to be easier and cheaper to develop for. Madden on the Wii is going to be a completely new experience with extremely low dev costs. All they do is port the gamecube version, polish it up, and add in the new controls. Madden on the PS3 and 360 is also somewhat new, but mainly on account of spending lots of money to make perty new graphics.

Re:Wii Campers?

[HappySqurriel]

That's because, in theory, there are plenty of Wiis to go around. Nintendo is manufacturing millions. It shouldn't be hard to get one within the first week or so. At least that's what I'm banking on and from what I've read I don't seem to be alone. With the PS3 everyone knew they didn't make enough to meet demand...

Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way as you (and I think most people do aswell) ...

The fact is that with how many units Nintendo is producing, and how quickly they should be able to restock, there is little chance of a long term shortage; what this leads to is that there is little opportunity for profit so less scalpers are interested in the system. With scalpers not camping out for days (or weeks) to get a system it is more likely that you will be able to get one on launch day without camping out yourself.

Ultimately this means that the Wii will have a (successful) launch that is very orderly; there aren't going to be riots or muggings, all that is going to happen is most people who want a Wii on launch day are going to get one with (potentially) some having to wait a week or two. This means that there is little that is news worthy so it gets less press.

I have wondered for a while what would happen if the press put a different slant on the stories that they release if you would see companies react differently; if the PS3 launch was reported as "Sony was incompetent and released far too few systems which caused massive riots at Best-Buy" rather than "The PS3 is the hot item to have, and its launch caused riots" would Sony try to ensure that the PS4 launch was orderly? If the Wii launch went well and news agencies reported it as "Nintendo had a successful system launch this weekend selling 950,000 systems; that is over twice as many systems as the XBox 360 or PS3 were able to sell in their opening days" would there be a greater focus on producing enough units to meet demand?

It seems to me that because news agencies focus on negative things that a lot of companies will produce negative things (shortages) in order to get coverage on the news; I'm not saying that Sony went out of their way to produce too few systems, just that if they only got news coverage for a good launch they would ensure that production was on schedule.

Let's not forget..

[ACAx1985]

This article fails to mention Matt Stone and Trey Parker. Two weeks was too long to wait for a Wii, so freezing yourself in a Colorado mountain top and hoping to thaw on launch date is the only viable solution. Didn't see them so stoked for a PS3 :)

Re:Controller...

[Thansal]

Heh, this is actualy one of the few reasonable objections to the Wii (the other is "well, I like prety graphics").

I am a nintendo fanboy, I am gettign a Wii, I am stoked about the controlers. However, there is still that nagging doubt that if they don't pull it off perfectly, where you don't have to think about the controller more then the game, then there will be problems.

Some of my reservations were taken away by the fact that Nintendo announced that not all games will use the WiiMote (Smash Bros will use a clasic controller or a NGC controller). So they are not forcing developers to use it when a standard controller works better.

I also got to play around with a Wii last week (nintendo world store), and the controller DOES seem to work from a functional standpoint. It was responsive, it is not that heavy (It is a lighter then a standard controller, however you are holding it in 1 hand generaly), and it does seem to be acurate.

So, only time will tell, and I still am slightly woried, but I think it will prevail.

Why would anyone buy a PS3 now?

[ConfusedSelfHating]

The only good launch title is Resistance:Fall of Man. The titles that are on both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are better on the Xbox 360. Many of the games that were meant to come out for launch are being pushed back until there is a larger install base. There aren't that many movie titles available for the Blu Ray movie format right now. The PS3 will only get better with age. When there are a larger number of games available and there is a significant price drop, the PS3 may be a worthwhile purchase.

I'm not interested in the Wii, but I understand why people are. After seeing a video of the Wii in action I lost all interest. However a lot of message comments about the same video showed that there were many Wii fans. I think that the Wii will sell very well, I just won't buy one. At $249 with a game, it's a low risk investment in gaming. I may pick one up in a year or two if I see some games that interest me. If I was a Nintendo fan, I would buy one at launch.

It's just a matter of time before I buy an Xbox 360. It's high definition gaming at a much more reasonable price than the PS3. I don't want to watch movies on a console, so Blu Ray isn't very important to me. I am waiting for a significant price drop before I buy one.

no rumble

[HelloKitty]

I wont buy the PS3 since it doesnt have rumble now...
that combined with lack luster launch titles (ridge racer is the best???).
and the high price...

I'd take a Wii any day over the ps3...
xbox just did everything right this time.
i used to love ps2.
but they just screwed up the controller this time.

Well maybe it is.

[LWATCDR]

Developing a game that uses the PS3 fully will cost a small fortune. It is a big complex machine.
Developing a game for the 360 is going to be a little bit cheaper.
Developing a game for the Wii is a lot cheaper!
It isn't a lot different than the Gamecube. Game makers have got to love it. Your old tools and skills transfer. No need to develop massive amounts of HD content. And best of all. Millions of consoles on the market.
Right now the best a PS3 game can hope to do is what, 100,000 units? That and it does look like a lot of fun!

Now what I hope is all 100,000 PS3s hit EBay today and the price plummets to $50!
Have a nice day.

Re:Well maybe it is.

[squiggleslash]

I have to admit, I still don't really understand the logic of it all. This is an honest question, and I'd be interested to know the answers.

The PS3 is a more powerful machine (as is the X-Box 360. Let's just lump them together because it's not a significant difference between them, I'll refer to the PS360 below.)

What does this imply? Well, it means: it's capable of running anything that will run on the Wii. If you want, you can use the same graphics and end up with something that runs on the PS360 no worse than it runs on the Wii. In some cases, however, you'll get an automatic boost. Run the same algorithms, and they should run faster. This, in turn, can mean it does more work, eg supports the higher resolution.

"Ok", I pretend to hear you cry, "but there's the static bitmaps and stuff." But does producing something that's, say, 4x as many pixels, really need four times as much work to produce? At that stage, aren't you either rendering and tweaking the renders or scanning hand drawn/photographed artwork?

I can understand going from 320x200 to 1024x768 requiring way more work in terms of cleaned up graphics. But going from 640x400 to 1280x1080, or something, presumably isn't going to add such a level of clarity that, say, you're going to have to add whole facial features to characters that you wouldn't have otherwise done.

So why is it that much more expensive to develop games for the PS360 than the Wii?

Re:Well maybe it is.

[LWATCDR]

The PS3 is going to be a lot more expensive to develop for.
1. The programing model is totally different from anything you have ever done.
2. Textures. It takes artists more time to do a more detailed texture. So what if it is only 5 times bigger? Yes it takes more work. Does it take five times? Maybe not. Will it take at least twice as much time? Probably so.
3. Blue ray! How many plants can press blue ray disks? What about the media costs?

The 360s programing model is a little different but not nearly as revolutionary as the Cell.
The Cell has a huge amount of potential but getting to that is not going to trivial.
The 360 will have the cost of the HD content and a little bit of cost with a slightly different programing model. The big bonus is that a port to of from the PC will be pretty easy.
The PS3 is a lot more complex and probably doesn't have as good of development environment as the 360.

Re:Well maybe it is.

[chaoticgeek]

As far as the smaller market for the Wii I think that is a little false. Comparing to the number of PS3s being released compared to the potential Wiis plus the fact that everyone is Wii crazy right now I think that the selling of them will be far greater than the PS3. This would mean more launch games sold, and most likely that people who buy one will continue to play wii games and get more games for it. I know many people that did that with a dreamcast, so even if it fails it still has a great chance to sell games still. But I doubt it will fail.

Re:Well maybe it is.

[sabernet]

As someone who did a short animation in both standard resolution(720x486) and HD(1024x768) let me tell you that it is a helluva lot more work, requires more hardware and more storage as well as much more detail involved. people paid to get more detail and they expect to see it.

It is for this reason many shows need to hire additional makeup artists and even completely redo sets when HD came around. So yes, a rough looking wall in Standard may just be a photoshop "cloud effect" but in HD, you need the cloud effect, the noise added, some scratches here and there(but well distributed as to not tile funny), etc... Equally, you have to streamline how many of those superlarge textures get fed into VRAM at one time, etc...

It is a huge huge shift from Standard to HD.

Also, devkit costs: The 360's dev costs aren't bad for a console. The Wii is fantastic for a console(2000$ to get started with hardware and all, however I omit manpower in that figure), while the PS3's costs are exorbitant. I remember reading something from Gamasutra a while back about how it would cost you 12 mil just to get STARTED on a competitive PS3 game all things considered. As a reference, Final Fantasy 7 cost 14 mil back in the day and that was considered a supermassive budget.

Add to that that any company with a GC devkit can get started now with just a few addons and you're set.

Re:Well maybe it is.

[Chosen Reject]

There's enough kiddie games already

I'm assuming here that you mean that as an insult. If not, move on to my next paragraphs. If so, it's a pretty weak one. I don't know what one would describe as a kiddie game, but I hope you don't define it as silly graphics and no blood. Otherwise Chess, Poker, Go, Tetris, Pac-Man, etc., etc., etc., would all be considered kiddie by you even though they are some of the most popular games ever. Not to mention that Resident Evil and Eternal Darkness aren't what I would call suitable for kiddies. But then you probably think Wind Waker is kiddie because it has cartoony graphics, rather than base it on its gameplay. If a game is fun (I assume that you think kiddie games are not fun) for you for any other reason than gameplay, then you're not much of a reliable source for game information.

They replaced a simple controller with one that is much more complex and will probably be more intimidating to "casual" gamers than the classic "D Pad", and say that they hope to outsell the competition by appealing to lots of "non-gamers."

Have you ever tried to get someone who is not a gamer to play with a D Pad controller? It sucks. If you are not used to D-Pads they are hardly what I would call intuitive. Tell someone to play tennis with a D-Pad and then tell them they can play Tennis with the Wii-mote by making the same movements as if they were playing it in real life and see which one they would rather use. Tell someone to point your onscreen weapon at the enemy and fire with the D-Pad and then tell them to do the same thing with the Wii-mote, only their actions onscreen will mimic the real life actions they take with the Wii-mote and see which one they would rather use. I don't know how you could NOT see that the Wii-mote is much more intuitive.

similar technologies have been attempted in video arcades for years, and "gimmick" controllers usually don't sustain all that much interest

But a console where the "gimmick" was in every box has never been tried before. Now everyone who writes a game for the console knows that the player has at least one Wii-mote so every game developer can develop for it.

Re:Well maybe it is.

[ShaunDon]

Sorry dude, it's even worse than you thought. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_telev isionWikipedia, two standards for HD are 720p/i (1280x720 px) and 1080p/i (1920x1080 px). The Blue-ray DVDs are specifically designed for 1080p video, so you're talking about a 300% frame size increase.

I work in computer graphics and true high definition scares the crap out of me and my current workstation.

Shaun

Re:Well maybe it is.

[LWATCDR]

"support might die off as fans stop buying crappy games."
Frankly the games I saw on the PS3 where pretty crappy. I just wasn't all that impressed.
From the publishers point of view if Sony doesn't get a bunch out on the market soon they will be hurting.
The Wii on the other hand looks like it will have a lot of consoles out for Christmas.

Re:Well maybe it is.

[Stormwatch]

Don't believe all the bullshit you read. PS3 devkits are expensive, but 12 mil (I assume you mean 12 million dollars) is ludicrous.

He clearly meant the whole game budget, not the devkit. A little googling gave me these numbers:

* Wii Devkit ........ $2,000
* X360 Devkit ..... $10,000
* PS3 Devkit ...... $20,000

Re:Well maybe it is.

[Wdomburg]

The problem I see is that this generation is unfolding much like the previous one, except that Nintendo has taken steps to significantly differentiate its console from the rest.

Last generation Sony beat Microsoft and Nintendo to market by a year. This time Microsoft beat Sony and Nintendo by a year.

Last generation the Sony and Microsoft released at the same price, $100 more than Nintendo. This generation Sony's base price is $200 more than Microsoft and $250 more than Nintendo.

Last generation Sony sold 900,000 units it's first week in Japan. This generation Sony only managed to ship 80,000 units.

Last generation Sony sold 500,000 units at launch in the United States. This generation... well, Sony claimed they were shipping 400,000 but retailers were given last minute reductions so who knows what the actual number is.

Last generation Sony sold 500,000 units in Europe the first year. This generation they had to cancel their European launch this year.

Last generation Sony sold 100,000 units in Australia the first year. This generation they haven't even scheduled one.

Last generation Nintendo had the worst launch portfolio. This generation they have the best.

I could go on, but I think it's pretty obvious that this generation is considerably different than the prior one. Sure Sony had production problems last generation as well, but they still managed to ship more units in the launch window than their own competition at the time (the Dreamcast). By the time Microsoft and Nintendo made it to markey they not only had solved their production problems, but had a solid installed base.

Wii vs PS3

[porkThreeWays]

I think the wii is going to be badass and I'm personally going to buy one. However, I think the wii will be fighting for the 2nd spot on the big three totem pole and not 1st. I just don't know enough hard core gamers that are excited about the wii. I've noticed that many of the hardcore gamers I know are satisfied with the idea of a system that offers nothing more than better graphics than the old system. The wii is radically different. I don't think they really even want to have to raise their arms to use the wiimote. I love nintendo and I think the wii will be badass, but I just don't see them capturing the hardcore audience.

The best they can hope for is getting the general public that normally don't play video games to play the wii. Most people find xbox and playstation controllers confusing and cumbersome. Maybe the wiimote will deliver a more natural style of play with a lower learning curve, hence a lower barrier to playing games. However, hardcore gamers (and even moderate gamers) are pretty used to xbox and playstation style controllers and will probably find it harder to get used to the wii controller. I don't think they will get much of the hardcore and moderate gamer market. Maybe they can become the ipod of the video game world this generation?

Re:Wii vs PS3

[freeweed]

You do realize that "hardcore gamers" haven't been the largest market segment for a loooooong time now, right?

Assuming the Wii does end up appealing to the general public, it will end up in the #1 spot simply because that's 95% of the market.

Re:Wii vs PS3

[Billly Gates]

I played teh Wii at a Gametstop in california. The wiimote rocks! Its for hardcore gamers as well and you can buy the standard gamecube controller for it as well. What is going to take it off are the amount of titles for it. Assuming it makes #1 the title base is expected to grow to 60 by years end.

Also the wiimote makes it difficult for hardcore games too because reaction time and angle are important in using it. It will vary on what you are playing. WIth the ps2 and gc I feel the point of most games is to hit the right combinations of buttons at a very fast speed. With this I can focus on using my arm and focusing on winning and not memorizing arkane buttons at the fastest speed possible like in mortal Kombat. Yes, I know that game is 10 years old but I began to hate console games after playing as it became the new thing with console makers overloading their controllers with bottons. It was dumb and pointless.

Games like NFL sports title and Mario Kart will rock on this!

Re:Reminds Me Of A Conversation...

[HappySqurriel]

The fact of the matter is the vast,vast,vast majority of console developers don't post online - it's simply not in our culture to do so. Never have and probably never will.

An AC pretending to be a vidogame developer ... how original ...

So Mr Game Developer why do you need a 4 dimentional matrix to store transformations in a 3 dimentional game? What size of matrix do you need for a 2 dimentional game?

The vast,vast,vast majority of of console developers are buying PS3s. Especially with the whole Linux development stuff to go with the amazingly powerful hardware

Not to be blunt, why would any developer spend $600 to have a linux system whey you can do (pretty much) exactly the same thing with a $200 PC?

Most of us make very good money and have very good home media equipment and are already starting to pickup BluRay movies.

100% proof that you are not a game developer ...
I used to be one, now make about three times as much money as a independant contracting web developer; game developers are paid poorly, and have little time to watch movies because they are worked to death ...

Re:Reminds Me Of A Conversation...

[L7_]

seriously, unless you log in, you are just a paid sony astroturfer.

It's not a war, the Wii is not a side

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

There are stores that sell consoles. You can buy a Wii. You can buy a PS3. You can buy an Xbox 360. You can buy all three or just buy a discounted PS2. All of these products will still be available in two, three, four or more years time (except maybe the PS2). Why does everyone have this obsession with X being the best or Y being the winner? Just go out and buy what makes you happy. Years ago I bought a Nintendo 64. Everyone said it was a flop. Countless articles today still claim it was a flop. But guess what? I never noticed, I just played Super Mario 64 and Goldeneye and I was happy. I can understand why this all matters if your 401(k) or pension portfolio is dominated by game company stock. But otherwise, just get out there and have fun! I know I will. (Probably on a Wii ;-)

Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side

[JohnSearle]

I'm incredibly sorry to say that I have some disagreement with what you said...

This is not merely about your selection of what makes you happy, and here's why:
. People have limited funds, and therefore cannot make multiple system purchases.
. The choice of a single system has to be an informed choice, and these articles, especially ones presented by supposed informed sources, aid in making this choice.
. A system with two great games might be good for some, but others like variety, and a flopped system doesn't support the same level of variety.
. Even the probability of getting two great games depends upon the number of games produced. The more games produces, the greater the chance of getting a hit game.
. Game manufacturers tend to focus more on the popular system, so game variety (and sheers numbers) depends on popularity. Therefore, in choosing a popular system you are more likely to get what you're hoping for.
. These articles aid in increasing hype, and therefore popularity, of the particular systems.
. And a final point, before I lazily give up on writing this, is that buying any product supports the further manufacturing of similar products. These articles, and these underlying discussions, aid towards more informed purchases.

I know I'm probably missing some points, but I think I've at least given a partial rebuttal. Purchasing is not merely about filling a whim, we are collectively directing the industries. That should be kept in mind.

- John

Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side

[JohnSearle]

Well it would appear that most of your rebuttals centre on the argument that waiting is better. Although this might be true, most people don't wish to wait the time it takes to determine which console will best suit their needs. This may take months, or even years. So impatience has to be reconciled with correct purchasing.

As for this article being pure hype and mere noise generation... It appears to be coming from a third party (Gamasutra), with (hopefully) little ties to Nintendo (although I do realize advertising revenues may be tied with this). This third party has went around to the actual game manufacturers (EA, etc.)who will be producing games for all three systems, and thus have no major affiliations. It would seem to me that an article produced with little ties to either side, is most likely not purely a noise generating article. Although I wouldn't argue that some of them most probably are.

I believe that in most news there are at least some relevant facts to be had... You just have to be wary what you buy (pun intending, thank you).

- John

Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side

[theskipper]

Excellent point. I'd mod you up if I could.

Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side

[poot_rootbeer]

"Why does everyone have this obsession with X being the best or Y being the winner?"

Because the console that is "the winner" will always be the one for which the most game titles will be released, therefore improving the odds that it will be the one for which the best game titles will be released.

Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I just don't get it. If the good games aren't out yet, you're better off playing games on your old console. Why take the risk now? I can understand buying a new PC the moment what you want is available - all your old performance hungry games will suddenly perform better. But with the new consoles, unless the game you want is already available (eg. I bought a DS for Super Mario) there's no point buying now. And anyway, the N64 didn't "win" and yet it provided me with many hours of pleasure.

One thing I'll mention: when I bought my DS, some people said to me "but the PSP is so much more powerful", and I could have afforded the PSP. But the DS gave me what I wanted. However, I can see how some people would probably have caved in under the pressure from friends pointing out that they didn't have the "most powerful". That's a bit sad. Maybe that's what this is really about, people wanting bragging rights to having the "best" console instead of considering "what is the best console for me?". (Or conversely, "who is this console best suited for?")

Re:I'm beginning to think Sony might win

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

true story, I bought a "broken" xbox off a guy for $5, opened it up, re-soldered the power cable base, then reveled in the glory of a (at the time) $250 gaming machine working perfectly. I was originally buying it just to Frankenstein my other broken one back to life, but who's counting anywat. . .

Devs like Wii because it's better for them.

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Nintendo's push for innovation over graphical prowess is exciting for game developers, both because they like innovation and they dislike cutting-edge graphics (which require 8-figure budgets, which leads to more conservative game publishers who don't want to risk such huge investments, which leads to tough times for any developer who doesn't want to spend his or her life updating the facial animations for Madden 20XX).

This doesn't mean ordinary GAMERS should necessarily prefer Wii. A lot of gamers only go for the AAA titles that can afford to have great graphics AND excellent gameplay, plot, etc. For them, it comes down to a much more difficult personal preference between new controller schemes and advanced graphics.

Oh yeah, and a few hundred bucks and a six-day line outside a Gamestop in a gloomy strip mall.

real problem with the PS3

[Srsen]

The real problem with the PS3 was that Sony underpriced them. Yes, I meant to say underpriced. With the pent-up demand, they should have slapped a "First Edition" sticker on the initial shipment and sold them for $1200. They still would have sold out, but people would be much less upset at not getting one if they could never had afforded them anyway.

Then ship a million of them in December at the regular price. Why is Sony taking a loss on this first shipment when they don't have to? All they're doing is giving away the margin that resellers are making on eBay.

Re:real problem with the PS3

[Thraxen]

Bad, bad, bad idea. Sure, they would still sell to the hardcore gamers, but that would piss off so much of their fan base that it would hurt them more in the long run. People can accept the fact that some hardcore geeks snatched them all up and flipped them on Ebay... they get to be the a-holes, not Sony. At least the average consumer still has hope they might catch a break and grab one at a store for a reasonable price. But if Sony did that themselves then they become the a-holes and that is NOT the image you want as a company. You also might also make a fair number of your software developers a bit uneasy with a stunt like that.

Re:real problem with the PS3

[Srsen]

Well, in my opinion they look like a-holes now because they didn't have enough units ready at the ship date to meet the obvious demand. If you sell out 200,000 units the first day at $1200 a piece, but as part of your marketing announce that that's only the "early" pricing, then everyone else who buys once in a month at $700 thinks they're getting a good deal. That's managing demand. It also doesn't piss off your resellers who are having freakin' riots in the parking lot.

With consumer electronics, the marketing is everything. If you present it correctly, the customers will buy into any pricing scheme you want. Everyone knows the price will drop over time anyway, just as it did with the PS2.

Re:Wii Campers?

[Phisbut]

I wonder... why I have seen no media stories about loads of people camping out in front of stores, for a chance to snag a new Wii? All you ever see is PS3!, PS3!, blah blah.

Fun story... I was watching the news this morning, they sent a reporter at Best Buy during the night, and interviewed the people standing in line. Knowing quite well that most of those people weren't really gamers and were just trying to make a quick buck by reselling it, they asked them a few interesting questions...

• What are you waiting in line for? (Obvious answer, everybody knew that one)
• So, you're into video games? (Most said yes, some said "Not that much")
• Which game will you be playing on your new console? (About half of the people in line couldn't name a single game that was available for the PS3...)

Then, when the store opened at 8am, they kept filming the queue, watching the first 14 people get in the store (which had 28 consoles), and then all of those 14 new PS3 owners all headed towards the same truck after leaving the store... obviously giving them to someone who would be reselling them.

Then the reporter also passed a comment saying that some of the people waiting in line and getting a PS3 are not the type you would expect of a gamer, and that we're more used to see those people on street corners asking for change...

It's nice to see some of the media don't buy into the whole PS3 hype and aren't afraid of talking about people that hire bums to wait in line for them and such.

Give it time

[_bug_]

Every time we go through a new set of releases the same topics keep coming up. This one is expensive, this one is cheap, this one is innovative, this one has poor launch titles, etc.. And if history has taught us anything it's that the arguments made now won't reflect the reality six months from now.

The PS3 has had a terrible launch and I think it's pretty obvious the project was rushed. There's little there that would attract a casual gamer to the PS3. The people buying right now are scalpers, hard-core gamers, and the moms and dads who buy from the scalpers because junior insists on having the latest and greatest gadget regardless of it's merits.

However, in a six months to a year we'll see some amazing games come out for the platform that make use of Cell's full potential. That is when the PS3 will make it's real run. Stock supplies will be up, the price of the console will be down, and a lot more people will have HD-capable televisions that will benefit from the PS3's Blu-ray drive and HD output. There will probably be a better general understanding of HD as well, with many more HD-DVD/Blu-ray drives on the market, perhaps convincing people that PS3 price tag is worth it after all (when they see the cost of a standalone player).

Of course these "industry insiders" say they're going the way of the Wii at launch, but I'll bet anything they all have a PS3 within a year.

Re:Wait a year

[Phisbut]

Their Wii will be collecting dust as they play new games in HD.

Right. The same way their NDS is probably collecting dust as they play new games on their PSP...

Re:Wii Campers?

[cmpalmer]

Yeah, but they think they're going to scalp it on eBay for more like $3000 than $800, buy a Wii, buy other stuff, then pick up another PS3 after Christmas. What the reality will be we'll know in a few days if there are a lot of unbought PS3's on eBay (or if they're selling at right around MSRP + minimal markup).

Re:Im not impressed by anything that's out yet.

[Phoenix00017]

I couldn't agree more. However, the key word is "yet". Look at the first generation of games on any new system and they aren't even in the same ballpark as the last few games on a system. The last Spyro game on PS1 competed well graphically with many of the PS2 launch titles, and Final Fantasy XII is stacking up well against 360 and PS3 titles. Gears of War, now that developers are starting to learn the 360 development tricks, blows away the both the PS3 and 360 launch titles.

However, IBM has made no bones about the fact that the Cell is difficult to develop for (from the article on the Cell processor):

The architecture emphasizes efficiency/watt, prioritizes bandwidth over latency, and favors peak computational throughput over simplicity of program code. For these reasons, Cell is widely regarded as a challenging environment for software development. IBM provides a comprehensive Linux-based Cell development platform to assist developers in confronting these challenges. Software adoption remains a key issue in whether Cell ultimately delivers on its performance potential.

Recall though that developers had the same complaints about the PS2 and its "emotion engine". It will take time to truly take advantage of the cell processor. I will be buying my Wii and waiting a year or two to see what churns out for the PS3. The potential is there, yes, but whether or not anyone exploits it remains to be seen.

Re:A Question

[hibiki_r]

It's pretty easy: Early Playstations, PS2s and PSPs had issues. Early 360s had issues. Nintendo's manufacturing record is pretty much spotless, barring some cracked hinges in some DS lites.

Nintendo just doesn't release hardware that isn't ready for release.

Re:A Question

[Chris Burke]

This type of thing is something a number of people are saying; ' you should wait to get a 2nd gen PS3, because like the 360 it'll have problems'. Yet I've not heard anyone say anything like that about the Wii.

Because there's little history of problems with Nintendo consoles.

Frankly, there's little history of serious problems period. Prior to the last generation, game consoles were still expected to be like every other home electronic appliance: You bought it, you brought it home, and it worked. Games, too. They were expected to just work. The stability of the hardware/software in consoles was always a major argument in their favor over PCs.

So the fact that so many people had to replace their PS2s within a year, and Xbox 360 owners were experiencing problems, is a new thing. Now I partly blame it on companies like MS who are used to a "release-then-patch" philosophy. Certainly when the consoles got online capabilities that was the first thing I expected to happen, and it was. Sony, I don't know what their deal is, they've been troubled lately. Nintendo, they still seem to very much want to give people the old-school console experience of it "just working". I think they would be embarassed to have to release patches to fix major launch problems.

But we'll see what actually happens.

Council?

[CritterNYC]

"I go to a council for a distinctly different experience then a PC"

Would that be the Council of Console Gamers? I hear they have a pretty good counseling center that can help console you if your pre-order was cancelled.

Re:College Student

[theurge14]

The only reason the PS2 is/was popular in college towns is because it was cheap and it doubled as a DVD player. In college it's all about money and the lack of it. The PS2 will continue to hang on in many dorm rooms because it's still a good DVD player but expect the cheap Wii to creep in as the cheap gaming upgrade.

The only people on campus you'll see with those $600 consoles like the PS3 are the kids who have parents who also bought their car/rent/textbooks/food/beer/tuition and don't have to ever worry about working and going to school at the same time.

It's the "other" November election...

[7Prime]

People who think that the Wii and the PS3 are aimed at wildly different markets should get their heads checked. The whole "we're not competative" thing was started by Nintendo to make themselves look like the "nice guys", but they're competing head to head with the PS3 in the same demographics. Both are aiming at hardcore gamers (no matter what anyone says about the Wiimotes being "kiddy", most of their fans are long time, dyed-in-the-wool classic gamers), with the Wii simply being more successful at being able to reach more casual gamers. But let's not fool ourselves, people who have never played games before are just as unlikely to buy a Wii as a PS3. They're like sports teams, everyone has their favorite, and are gunning for it to whoop the other... regardless of their age, gender, sexual orientation, or otherwise. The PS3 is going to be more attractive to younger gamers due to Sony's meathead, testosterone-laced design philosophy, where-as the Wii is going to be more favorable to the 23+ crowd who grew up with classic games. But these differences are subtle, and mostly they're gunning toward the exact same people.

It's the "other" November election: Sony vs. Nintendo, Republican vs. Democrat. Who's philosophy will dominate the game industry? Who's philosophy will dominate the government? I've taken sides, have you?

Microsoft's Gamble Pays Off

[BumBiscuit]

One thing I found sort of interesting in the TFA: Quite a few of the responders indicated that they weren't going to pick up a PS3 because it doesn't really bring anything to the table that their Xbox 360 doesn't already do.

So it looks like MS's gambit of bringing their next gen console out a year early -- considered risky by many because most people would presumably wait and see what Sony had up their sleeve -- might have paid off after all.

Re:'zonked' tag time

[HappySqurriel]

Was this story predictable or what? Poor Zonk could not bear some positive press about the PS3 having tremendous demand at launch.

Tremendous Demand?

Tremendous Demand would be selling more than 1 Million units in a day because so many people want to play your system they rush out and buy it; when you ship 400,000 (or less) units and the vast majority of people are buying it because they assume there will be a long term (supply based) shortage and they can make a decent profit selling it on eBay. If the rumors are right (which I'm not saying they are) Sony shipped about half of the 400,000 units they planned on shipping so this can not be associated with demand.

All we saw today was a company that had months to prepare for a launch and didn't come even close to producing a decent number of systems for it.

Re:College Student

[dukieduke]

You raise some interesting points, but there are a few holes in your cheese:

First cheese hole: As a "very very casual gamer" the market segment (college students that play Madden) you are describing is narrow, already won (according to you) and would be money down the toilet to focus on (unless you feel the Wii presents some threat to this segment). Market growth does not happen by keeping the status-quo.

Second cheese hole: People do want innovative controls. They don't mind a new control system, considering it may even be the first control system they have even learned (more on this in your third hole). A learning curve should be part of every game released. The DS is a great example of this type of situation. It succeeded beyond all college students' predictions that the PSP was the safe bet because that goofy new Nintendo had two screens, touch, and inferior graphics that couldn't play a movie. College students and their siblings bought the PSP in crazy numbers based on this focused segment's recommendations in some alternative universe. Branding really should mean something here. Oh wait, maybe they weren't released on school breaks when big bro' can tell the younger ones what they should like. All adolescents want to be their big brother, surely.

Third hole: "Nintendo has a stigma I'd say as being nerdy and childish." Well you would say that representing the ultra-casual gamer, but why are the DS games that are directed towards an aging population (Brain Age. Brain Academy) ripping up the charts? Could it be that they don't care if gramma has to learn an interface considering she has no old one to get upset about losing? And she liked it, and is buying more non-traditional titles (cooking simulator?!?). Japanese charts bear this out.

I could have many more holes, even pointing out that your post suggested that it was males that will drive the industry by concentrating on the sport-dorm and frat-boys (and graduates from) that influence a buying public. (Older brothers) Good luck with that attitude in the future. Meanwhile, Ninteno seems to be eating Sony's lunch.

I hope you aren't a business student.

Wii vs XBox360 vx PS3

[voxel]

The way I see it, quite simply:

1) XBox360 $399
        - Best graphics for HDTV gaming
        - Best online experience
        - Best media support with online movie/video purchases.
        - Secondary HDTV movie because of HDTV addon and missing DVI/HDMI connection.

2) PS3 $599
        - Second to the 360's graphics with launch titles.
        - Unproven online gaming experience.
        - In theory, we are lead to believe that the system won't be used to full potential until developers figure out how.
        - Best HDTV movie support from integrated Blu-Ray player and full HDMI support.

3) Wii $249
        - Most original user controller design giving a hopefully useful and non-gimiky method to playing todays games and designing new games that will only be available on the Wii
        - Unproven online gaming experience.
        - Only about twice as graphically capable as a Gamecube, most likely being about equivalent to the original XBox, perhaps a bit better.
        - No HDTV movie experience, or even DVD experience.

So, if you agree with me (god I doubt that will happen), then it should be obvious the PS3 is the worst choice to make here if you absolutely had to run out on Sunday to buy a gaming system. It is absolutely the most financial risk, with no to-date benefits versus the Xbox 360 to the gamer. Note, the keyword is GAMER, not a movie watcher.

It's clear to me the winner is the Xbox 360 for HDTV online gaming experience. If you want a new way to play games, it's the Wii. In my book, the PS3 doesn't qualify for anything, Blu-Ray is too cutting edge, no movies to watch, no idea who will win the format war. The PS3 is too expensive. It's been shown in multiple games now that it suffers frame-rate and online play issues versus the 360's version of the same game.

Personally, at $250 and a way I can get my Wife to play some games, and have fun parties when people come over, I am absolutely picking up one of these little bad boys.

I'll wait a bit to give the PS3 a chance to redeem itself, and if it can't within the next half a year or a year, then I'm picking up a 360 for some HDTV online action. Heck the premium system will probably be $299 by then and maybe even come with a bigger hard disk.

The only thing the PS3's good for to me is to resell on ebay, which I won't do.

Increase the pixels, increase the required art

[LordZardoz]

As you increase the graphics capability of the target platform, the required art assets increase as well. However, while the pixels only increase by a factor of 4, the amount of graphics resources, and the difficulty of creating them, increases by much more than a factor of 4.

To put it simply, it takes longer to model and animate a character with 100 000 polygons than it does to do the same to a character with only 1000 polygons.

Lets start with the basic geometry. A faster machine can draw more triangles. Animating a low polygon character is easier than a high polygon character (fewer verticies to account for). What might have looked good enough on a low end machine will need alot more work on a high end machine. You also start having to worry about level of detail. With a faster machine, you will have to draw objects that are farther away. You still dont want to draw it at full detail though, so you make a low poly version of the same object, and decide which set of geometry and textures to use to render it at run time. So instead of making 100 enemies, your essentially making 200 (albeit half are simpler).

And lets say you add physics and destructible objects to a game that did not have them before. So now when you shoot that crate, it shatters and its bits fly around and bounce. Ok, now in addition to modeling the intact object, you have to figure out how your going to render its shattered parts, and you have to add information for things like friction and mass, and take the time to fine tune those values.

On top of that, the more game assets you have to create, the longer it takes to process all those goddamn polygons and textures when compiling the level data into a playable level file. At the start of each new console generation, it takes a while before your working on machines that can process all those disparate files. When the artists are making the levels, to test them they have to export them, play them and then tweak them. More detail means it takes longer to iterate on the game assets.

More Art means More Artists means more money.

And of course, the PS3 is nothing like the PS2, so you have to throw out or retool a great deal of tech.

Want to know why the Wii will do well? Its meant to handle geometry about on par with a standard XBox, so there its easier to generate art assets. Its api's are nearly identical to the gamecube, so about 90% of the old tech and tool chains are still viable. And the dev kits are cheap. The Wii is getting alot of developer support because its much easier to make a profit on its launch titles than it will be for a PS3 launch title.

END COMMUNICATION

Re:I've only ever owned Nintendo consoles

[McKing]

Hear, hear!!

This is exactly the way I feel about the three companies.

A few months ago, my kids and I were discussing what they wanted for Christmas this year. They started going on about the PS3 (in the past, they have had used PS1, N64, and GC consoles, as well as a variety of gameboys). We had a really good discussion which ended up with me stating that I would pretty much only consider the Wii, simply because Nintendo has never tried to screw me over in any way (I paraphrased that part for the littler ones). I can't imagine Nintendo screwing me over in the future either.

Nintendo is all about selling me a console or a handheld that is fun to use, and has fun games to play on it. That's it. A simple transaction. I give the guy at the store some money, and he gives me a console and a game or two. I go home and play it with the kids, and we have a good time. What happened to a company doing one thing and doing it well?

I don't want a "media center" taking over my living room (which is what both the PS3 and the XBox360 are really trying to accomplish). Microsoft and Sony both want to rule my digital world and keep a steady flow of cash going from my pocket to theirs in a variety of ways, especially Sony. Sony, by the way, nows controls the entire media chain from the media creation, to the distribution, to the player, and now the HDTV (and you thought the PS3 was about the games?). The PS3 is really all about the Blu-ray and HDTV.

I hate them both. Forced upgrades from one crappy OS to the next from MS, vendor lock-in like you wouldn't believe, DRM out the wazoo. One part of Sony sells MP3 players and minidisks, and then another part sues people who rip music. Un-be-freaking-leivable.

The irony of the situation is that the online stores attached to the Xbox and PS3 don't interest me in the least (neither do the price tags), but the ability to plonk down $20 online and get 4 older games on the Wii (or 1-2 slightly newer ones) is just my cup of tea.

I've always been a PC gamer, but MS is making that harder on me every day, and I'm getting burned out by the hardware churn. It's getting tougher every year to justify replacing perfectly good computer parts because I want to play the latest and greatest. I've never actually purchased a brand new console before, but I just may find myself picking up a Wii for the kids instead of a new motherboard and CPU for myself this Christmas. I'm actually excited about a console for the first time, ever.