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Blizzard Lawyers Visit Creator of WoW Glider
Rick Hamell writes "On October 25th, Blizzard/Vivendi payed a personal visit to Michael Donnelly, creator of WoW Glider and accused him of violating the DMCA. Their demands were unclear, but come in the wake of recent player bannings for using bots in the popular MMORPG. It looks like he's going to fight it, but I think it'll be an interesting case if it ever reaches the courts." From the post: "The visitors from Vivendi / Blizzard made demands of Michael and stated that if the demands were not met that they would file a complaint in court if he did not meet them. I asked Michael what the demands were. He was unable to comment at the time to the exact details. But I do know they handed him a copy to very briefly 'Look at'. He was not given a copy. I think I could make a good guess and say that they asked for Glider to be shut down and if they feel that they have been harmed they may have asked for a financial settlement."
I'm glad to hear of this.
:(
Sure, it's an independent software developer, who cares? He's charging money for a program that explicitly violates the TOS that a user agrees to when signing up for World of Warcraft.
It's just one bot program out of many, but maybe the others will get the picture and GTFO also. I'm tired of trying to play legitimately, having bots always stealing my kills.
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I mean, they just want to play WoW and have a little fun. Is that too much to ask?
Or are you too afraid you'll be replaced? Too afraid you might have to try a little harder playing against someone a little bit better than you?
Fight for machine rights!
Clones are people two.
I love WoW but think that the ability to be remarkably successful by using a bot demonstrates one of the biggest design flaws of the game (and the entire MMORPG genre as a whole). MMORPGs require very little thought or skill and most of the content is not worth seeing; killing 100,000 monsters that react in (pretty much) the exact same way in order to get to the point were you have 'Finished the game' only to have to kill 100,000 mosters that react in exactly the same way to get all the leet loot. I recognize the technical difficulty of producing intelligent (or atleast different) mobs, but until you have to be reasonably intelligent to survive these encounters a bot will be successful.
If people are willing to pay for a program to play the game for you.
Some of us here (me included) are interested in legal issues but don't play WoW. A better summary would have included a description of the program, so that those of us who don't keep up with this niche have to fish around through links.
From the (admittedly linked) WoW Glider Homepage. "WoW Glider is a tool that plays your World of Warcraft character for you, the way you want it. It grinds, it loots, it skins, it heals, it even farms soul shards... without you."
I don't need the karma, but Glider FAQ
-T
And it most definitely is not undetectable. His own boards have dozens of pages of posts from his customers who got their accounts banned for using WOWGlider.
Funniest are the morons who whine how their other accounts got banned too - stuff like 'I only glided on one (farming) account, they wtfpwned my main account too!!!' (duh, TOS says Blizzard can nuke all your accounts if you violate it)
Anyway, WOWGlider dev is a lowlife who profits from runing the game for those who actually belive in playing by the rules. So props to Blizzard if they actually try to bury him in legal crap - he'd deserve something much worse, but sadly judges don't toss people into jail for hacking game clients with the intent of ruining the game for all players.
I thought it was only in South Park that the Blizzard folks pays a personal visit. Nice to see outstanding customer support in real life. ;)
.. by not emoting 'HAY GUYZ I NEED A HEAL' or 'WANNA JOIN MY GUILD' every five seconds. Actually I guess Blizzard are worried not so much by the DMCA stuff as the fact this takes away human interaction from the game. Which is, after all, the only real reason to play an MMORPG and not an offline RPG.
if this was like, a program or something there of that was designed to say, DDoS a WoW server, then I'd understand. If it was designed to keylog people's WoW account info or auto delete their in-game characters/items yea.
What if a bug ends up in the program that does DDoS a WoW server? What if it DDoS a WoW zone? What if it denies a legitimate user from completing a quest or working on a tradeskill or something because it consumes all the resources as soon as they become available, faster than a player can react? How do you know for sure it isn't keylogging people or copying their account info? How do you know that they haven't found a way to dupe items and are using it to dupe to give the item to one of their own bots so they can sell it?
But since when is creating a "cheat" for a game, againist the law?
I've never played WoW... that said, depending on how Glider works, it could involve intercepting and decrypting an encrypted stream and that could be a violation of the good old DMCA.
dude doesn't charge money for it does he?
Even though he does charge for it, it doesn't really matter. AFAIK, they aren't distributing any Blizzard copyrighted code so its not a fair use case. Further, if I give away free tshirts that I pressed with the Nike swoosh on them and take a loss on it, Nike can still sue me for violating their trademark.
does Major League Baseball punish him and the companies that make those products?
Ben-gay, Tylenol, etc have legal and non-performing enhancing uses and aren't banned in the various substance abuse policies by any sporting group that I know of. Glider serves one purpose, which is to interact with a server, against its terms of service, to enhance the play above what the terms of service allows.
do the major sport companies go after the steroid manufacturers?
See BALCO and Victor Conte for an example.
it's bullshit. I'm sure they'll pull something out of their ass saying his usage of the WoW client to reverse engineer some kind of program has violated their Copyrights yadda yadda yadda but in terms of fair use, assuming he wasn't making profit off of WoW Glider, I think he could get away with it. WoW Players feel free to mod me down , I don't condone cheating in such a manner but at the same time Blizzard has been real asshatery in the last two years abou cheating (Warden, anybody?).
As I said, profit has absolutely nothing to do with it and irregardless, your assumption about not charging for it is false. I hate the DMCA as much as the next guy but its very possible he violated it to create his program. Someone might argue that WoW players may have standing to sue him and his clients (possibly Blizzard depending on if their disclaimer forbids it and stands up) for using a program which interferes with the ability of non-infringing players to enjoy the game. Finally, if you read the article and/or the filing, it is MDY preemptively suing Blizzard to try to seek a judgment that they aren't breaking the law, not Blizzard suing MDY at this point.
Just a tip... before you try to expose something for idiotic, you might want to actually read whats going on first or else you risk exposing yourself. Then again, this is Slashdot.
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
What's illegal about cheating in a game?
;-)
Nothing. But then Blizzard/Vivendi wouldn't be so utterly stupid to try to sue him for cheating in a video game. The worst they could do is ban him from it, which I'm sure they've already done.
However, they might try to sue him for interfering in some way with their software. That would be incredibly hard to do though, since he does not modify anything nor copy anything over which Blizzard have copyright. (Copyright is a protection on works, and not on dynamically created in-core data, under any circumstances.) And he has not stolen any commercial secrets either, as long as he didn't go dumpster diving around the back of Blizzard labs. Reverse engineering for interoperability is certainly perfectly legal, and that's what Glider does, interoperate with WoW.
What's more, he has not circumvented any DMCA protection device either, since he is merely reading system memory which is not protected but in the clear. And it's his own machine's (or user's machine's) memory, so clearly he (or the user) has every right to read it.
Finally, he uses that information to drive the user's keyboard and mouse. Well, I'd like to see anyone challange his right to do that.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
If a game is so suckie that you are willing to pay for a computer program to do it for you....wouldn't it be better to just not get the game to begin with?
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
While "World of Warcraft" is certainly a registered trademark of Blizzard, Inc., to my knowledge "WoW" has never even been claimed as a trademark by Blizzard.
Has anyone considered writing an MMO where scripting up the client and making bots is part of the game. It seems so many people just play to be the l33t357 (did I spell that right?), and they get to there by botting, so why not have a game where that is the aim.
I don't play MMO's as I don't have time, and I can't really see the point in paying money to Blizzard so my bot can play (It's bad enough having to support my brother), but I think it would be pretty cool to have a game where I can write a bot in perl (or your favourite scripting language) and have it compete against other bots to master the game. The server would need to enforce state, as it seems to be the big problem with a lot of these MMO's that they trust the client. The client says hey, I've just picked up this uber item and moved to the top of this dungeon instantly, and the server says, ok, here you are.
The game would need to have complex economics, and somewhat complex combat/raiding/whatever in order to make ai difficult enough that it was a challenge.
It would probably best suit the space genre as it is more plausible that a space craft/robot/??? operates autonomously, than a Paladin/Wizard/Grue.
Also it would be great for people like me who can't be bothered sitting in front of a computer for hours on end playing MMO, when there's better things to do (like sitting in front of a computer for hours on end playing FPS).
Meh, maybe I'll make something, can't be that hard anyway...
What could be better than a jet powered motorcycle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8l6GTHLSWE
If you believe that this site should be shut down, you believe in the same principles that the DMCA was based on.
I'll take False Generalizations for $200, Alex. I believe that this guy should be put out of business, but not because of the DMCA.
My understanding is that WoWGlider works by reading the memory WoW writes to, using that to determine what's going on, and sending keypresses and mouse movements to control the character. Please explain how this is a copyright violation or circumventing an authentication measure.
;-)
They could get him under Section 1201 (a); "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."
The game's Lua subsystem allows for macroing and automation of game elements, but also disallows access to the automation of a number of other elements of the game as well. As such, WoWGlider circumvents the Lua subsystem's prohibition of access to said game elements (such as commands allowing automation of movement and so on)
I myself use a number of scripts utilising the Lua subsystem, some of which automate quite complex series' of actions. The system is more flexible than it is given credit for.
I'm also curious...Did you ever play Ultima Online? The botting scenario got so bad with that game in the end that at times it was impossible to tell who was a live player at the keyboard and who wasn't. It wrecked the game, from the point of view of being multiplayer...if you're going to play something on your own with a heap of AI running around, that by definition isn't a multiplayer game...it's single player.
Would you like all macro programs, even ones that aren't used for cheating in games, to be illegal? Because this is how they all work.
You're keeping your argument centred on macro programs in general terms, rather than talking about WoWGlider specifically, because I think you know that that is the only area where you've got a solid argument. It probably couldn't *quite* be classified as a straw man...but it's close.
There are two points here:-
a) WoWGlider is being used exclusively to perform action/s that Blizzard are opposed to. Macroing itself *is* allowed within the game via the Lua subsystem; I myself use a number of scripts within this system, some of which perform quite complex series of actions.
b) Use of *any* programs which run outside WoW and interact with it are specifically prohibited in the Terms of Service. What that means is that it doesn't in fact matter what WoWGlider does; as a third party program it is in violation of the ToS.
The bottom line quite simply is this:- Blizzard own and run the server network that WoW is hosted on. Any offline establishment (restaurants, gaming houses and so on) on the planet has the ability to set its' own house rules with regards to dress, behaviour, and sometimes other things, and generally also has bouncers to enforce said rules. The only reason why there's a difference to that in this case in your and other people's heads is because the WoW client runs on your local machine.
Following on from that analogy, though...if you have a problem with the house rules of a given establishment, go somewhere else. There are that many other both open and closed source games around (both on and offline, and single and multiplayer) that it should not be a problem.
I think the major problem here is the attitude (perpetuated, as usual, by Richard Stallman) that says that purely because you're handing over money, any given vendor is both legally and morally obligated to give you whatever you want. They are not. They are obligated to give you exactly what has been negotiated by you and them; no more, and no less. Blizzard's ToS is very specific as to what you are being given in exchange for your money, as well as outlining what your remedy is if you're unhappy with that; to walk away, after which you're entirely free to either play a game produced by someone else, join a FOSS project creating a game which may have a scenario more to your liking, or start a project to do so. Blizzard do not (and could not) try to forbid you from playing a competing game if you are unhappy with their terms.
Yet another common a
Ah, flawed analogy time (my favourite part of slashdot comments):
Seriously, if a game is that easily bottable, isn't a sign that the game is flawed? Yes, it's in their TOS (or rather "the agreement nobody reads when they patched") that you're not allowed to cheat, but truth be told, the cheater is violating the TOS, not the guy who wrote the software. The DMCA has very little to do with this, especially the piece you quoted.
Did RMS ever insult you at a linux convention or something? (I hear he does that sometimes) There's several posts here from you ranting about the FSF, and they've got nothing to do with this entire mess. Sure, RMS is an extremist in his stand on closed source software, patents and what not, but getting him, the FSF and the "mindset" of that community involved is just trolling.
The whole nvidia issue had to do with the GPL, and not the DMCA. IMHO, nvidia can distribute their drivers however they see fit, I don't need their drivers for my servers.
That's what people do, they complain... Sun is shining? Too hot. It's snowing? Too cold. It's cloudy? Looks like it might rain. The original NWN client and server were ported to linux, and lo and behold, no masses of open sauce fanboys gathering on their forums yelling "Free the source!". Everybody who plays WoW either does it on windows or uses some version Wine. Who really needs a native linux client?
You're a fanboy, and when people point it out to you, you start ranting about RMS and the FSF. Blizzard can make some really nice games, but they're not that great a company when it comes to their customers. Do a little googling, and ignore the 14 year olds. Being a fanboy is one thing, blindly putting people or companies on pedestals and worshipping them like gods is another.
It really depends on how you look at it, and how you play. There is very little required grunt work in WoW; most grunt work is optional. Example: You want that 0.1% drop from a certain mob. You can either (a) get lucky, (b) buy it off the auction house - assuming it is not a bind on pickup item, (c) grind/kill that mob until it drops. The 0.1% drop rate represents rarity, and if you want to find the diamond, then you have to either stumble on it, pay someone for it, or start digging. I know some people that are after Phat Lewtz, and will obsess over these things. I know others that run each instance (at most) a couple times, and if they don't get that nifty shiny, they shrug and move on. The game has been designed that you can make it through "end game" areas with quest rewards, crafted items, and skill... it's just not as easy, or pretty, as some of the rares. It's just a matter of choice, and how you want to play the game.
My main problem with Stallman/the FSF, generally speaking, is fourfold:-
In other words I basically saw the FSF as relevant to this topic purely from the point of view that I saw someone else who seemed to believe that they had the right to force Blizzard to conform to their wishes. Since I've observed that such a belief system is in line with the FSF's "mindset," as you put it, I saw the association.
A lot of the people who post to Slashdot show indications on a regular basis of being afflicted with the FSF's mind control, so it isn't necessarily unrealistic to assume that said mind control is going to influence the perspective of a person affected by it in general terms, rather than just in one or two areas. Hence, it's likely to be of at least peripheral relevance to pretty much any topic we might mention here, because it's an integral part of the ideological model of a large number of Slashdot readers.
If they had a legal leg to stand on, the Blizz team would have left him with their list of legal complaints, not taken it back after allowing him to briefly look at it. They can afford a few pieces of paper in a legal process.
I don't see any other way to interpret their behavoir. Their complaints wouldn't stand up to scrutiny, so they don't let him scrutinize it.
That being said, there are two reasons people grind: to level a toon they want to actually play, and to gather cash so that they don't have to grind for it to support their raiding habits.
They could eliminate the former reason by giving new characters on an account with one or two max level characters perma double xp, or triple or something along those lines.
If leveling subsequent characters was much faster a good deal of folks would lose interest in bots. That is an old complaint, to be sure, but it's relevant.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.