Safe Computing For the Elderly?

wingspan asks: "My 80-year old mother is insisting on using this new fangled thing called the Internet for banking and brokerage. I researched ways for her to perform those activities safely. The typical suggestions, from organizations such as BITS [pdf], include installing anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-spam, anti-adware, browser toolbar, and a personal firewall. The suggestions also include not clicking on links, verifying security certificates (If it has a cert, it must be a good site!), making sure the address begins with 'https://' regularly updating the security software and patching all other software, and regularly changing passwords. Personally, I think the technical suggestions are too Windows-centric, too costly, and leave too much of an attack surface. The non-technical suggestions are simply too much to ask of the elderly. What do you think? Is it possible for an elderly person to safely perform Internet banking and brokerage? If so, what system should they have, how should it be configured and maintained, and how much of the security should depend with the elderly user?"

Comments

Get her on Linux

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I've had great success getting technically incompetent people to avoid the evils of the Internet by introducing them to Linux.

They hate the bootup sequence text and the weird program names, so they quit using computers altogether and get back to using ATMs.

This may or may not be what you are trying to accomplish with your grandma.

Re:Get her on Linux

[LiquidCoooled]

To get your grandma up and running without any trouble, just update your repositories:

deb http://silver.surfer.com/grandma/ grandparents human

Then run your updates:

sudo apt-get update perspective-on-life

And finally, install the required old person packages (debian sarge includes a larger list, see here for more):

sudo apt-get install falseteeth slippers cardigan

Once you have done this, logout of your grandma and when you bring her back online she will be ready for action.

Re:Get her on Linux

[CharAznable]

I actually think there is some sense in introducing someone who hasn't used a computer before to Linux. With Windows, especially on an OEM machine full of crapware, the user is constantly bombarded with popups and warnings. This was too much for my girlfriend's elderly grandma to handle. She had no clue what these things meant and didn't know how to react to them. On the command line, on the other hand, nothing happens unless you type something and hit return. It might be cryptic, but you're in control, and you are forced to pro-actively learn what you are doing, instead of simply reacting to the stuff the computer throws at you. If your mind is not used to GUIs then the command line is simple: type a command and the computer does something.

Re:Get her on Linux

[finkployd]

Once you have done this, logout of your grandma

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner in the "most disturbing thing ever uttered on slashdot" category.

Finkployd

Sad

[Trailwalker]

A rather elitist and patronizing view of the elderly.

Author needs to be whacked with a cane.

Re:Sad

[Threni]

> A rather elitist and patronizing view of the elderly.
> Author needs to be whacked with a cane.

As you get older you lose your mental faculties. That's not patronizing - it's what happens. Eventually - if you live long enough - you'll start to make bad decisions. It doesn't happen, or we shouldn't talk about it?

Getting back on topic, I guess you could provide a shortcut to a browser with no address bar, pointing to a homepage which is a local html file with links to the banking (etc) sites so that there's no ability to be phished into typing the wrong address. Email could be set up with a whitelist of friends - all other email being dumped. Email filters could additionally dump emails containing any URL/some pretty broad set of words ("banking", "log in", "logon" etc). You could subscribe to a service, such as Gmail, that does anti-phishing by default.

Re:Sad

[rucs_hack]

"As you get older you lose your mental faculties. That's not patronizing - it's what happens."

Sometimes true, however I once had opportunity over several weeks to play a Monk in his late eighties at chess, a game at which I have some talent. I've never been so completelly destroyed in chess so many times in a row, his abilities were fearsome.

Yet he seemed absent minded, it was all very puzzling.

Re:Sad

[EinZweiDrei]

Chess skill is largely a basis of pattern recognition and experience, prodigies aside. One can be brilliant at chess by sheer dint of having played thousands and thousands of games and be mediocre at everything else in life. Adrian de Groot famously [in the chess world, at least] found that Grandmasters are far better than amateurs at memorizing real gameplay positions on a board, but are just as poor as amateurs with nonsense positions [three white bishops all on black squares, kings adjacent, general random piece placement]. This has led heavily to the adoption of the 'pattern recognition' mode of thought.

Your monk, then, may have just been very, very, experienced, in spite of his old age, and thus fearsome. Hell, look at Viktor Kortchnoi.

That said, though, I absolutely believe there are some very, very, sharp elderly men and women out there. As well as some very, very, strong ones, to dispel another myth. The key is using what you have -- intelligence, strength -- and never giving it a chance to slip into senility.

Re:Sad

[rucs_hack]

interesting stuff.

The Monk in question had been left at the monestary as a baby and raised there. Chess was, and remains, a major entertainment in that monestary. We're probably talking over 70 years of constant chess playing.

What struck me as odd at the time was that I didn't seem to be able to come up with a single long term strategy that he didn't block several moves before I got to a checkmate. I got a few checks, but usually before I realised something horrible was happening elsewhere on the board.

Re:Safe is safe enough.

[antifoidulus]

I would add to this: only use bookmarks to navigate the web instead of typing in addresses. Especially if the person has never used a keyboard before(or hasn't in a long while) and may have a bit of trouble reading the address bar accurately. One mistaken keystroke could send you right to a phisher/camper's site. Plus, if you only navigate to known trustworthy sites, your chances of getting spyware/virus etc. are greatly reduced.

Never used a computer?

[oDDmON oUT]

First of all, go with something *you* are comfortable with, because you're going to be the first person she calls in the event of an emergency.

Otherwise, considering going Apple. Sure some will decry the proprietary aspects, but it's an *easy* system to use, and with Applecare she will have a years worth of tech support from someone who is inside the US of A if you're not availabe.

My 76 yo Mom has a Powerbook for her internet related stuff, and a Winbook, because she was a long time Windows user and her embroidery stuff runs only on Windows (it's tied to a Bernina, who offers no Mac port of their software).

I think if she hadn't been into the sewing thing we could have gone straight Mac. She understands too, that if she needs to go on the internet for any reason with the WB, she uses "that other account you set up for me" (i.e. non-Admin), cause it's safer.

FWIW, the PB has been just fine for 3 years, the WB has had problems within 3 months of purchase, YMMV.

Good luck, whatever you do.

Re:Never used a computer?

[Thornae]

Seconded, with a proviso: Make sure the people she's getting tech support from are patient and nice.

My mum's got a Mini, and is totally happy with it (and has now converted my Dad, a longtime Wintel user).
When she first got it, though, she spent a lot of time on the phone to the Mac shop (and me). The Mac people were totally understanding and patient with her, never told her to just ring Apple, and now she's doing great.

However, there are two main Mac outfits in our little town, and the other one* is staffed almost entirely by the sort of elitist snobs who give Mac users a bad name (you know, the ones who sneer at you for asking questions). Seriously, I've never heard a single good story about their service or support, and if she'd gone there, chances are she would've given up on computers completely.

So, basically, check out where they'll be getting tech support from. Small outfits are more likely to be friendly, and not fob you off to generic Apple support (which is still pretty good) - and you'll be supporting local business.

*Adelaide people, I'm talking about NextByte. Avoid.

Ubuntu + Explanations about phising

[Ksempac]

Since she isnt gonna install applications but only browse the Internet, she doesnt need to understand how her OS works. So i would say go for a Ubuntu with icons to the few programs she will use on the desktop (Browser, Mail client, Text editor). Once this is done, you re safe from every threat except phising. As someone else said before you will have to teach her about the danger of links in e-mail, and that they shouldn t trust their email.

Re:Ubuntu + Explanations about phising

[1u3hr]

So i would say go for a Ubuntu

She wants to use it for banking. Banking sites are often designed for IE and nothing else. Maybe Firefox will work, but that's not guaranteed.

Windows hates the elderly

[CharAznable]

I'm amazed at how user-hostile Windows is when confronted with someone who has never seen a computer. My girlfriend's elderly grandmother just got a computer for the first time. It's an interesting situation cause she has never used one before in any way or form. I was on the phone with her trying to help her out and when I'd say "click OK", I had to explain that she had to move the cursor over the box that said OK and press the button on the mouse. Now imagine that kind of user confronted with a popup saying "Google Desktop is attempting to connect to the Internet. Allow? Keep Blocking?" It totally freaked her out, and explaining firewalls and how the Internet works was futile. It's like a completely different planet for her. I don't know if Linux or Mac OS X would be any better, but I wonder. What's a good system for someone who hasn't touched a computer before? What would this system need to be like?

Not really about the elderly

[pr0nbot]

I don't think this is specifically about the elderly. It is about anyone who isn't internet-savvy. The elderly, because of their lack of exposure to computers, may form a substantial group of such users, but the same would be true of new users in the developing world etc.

iMac or Mac Mini

[pubjames]

Get them an iMac or a Mac Mini with a 24 or 30 inch screen from Dell.

Set the system up to auto-update.

If they have vision problems there are settings on the Mac to help.

You might consider getting an additional keypad - for instance you can get one from x-keys and set it up with all the things they normally want to do - opening and closing the web brower for instance, you could even set it up for different keys to open different sites. Then clearly label the keys.

Yeah. "Windows" is the problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not children. It's new (but not necessary), they've a life time of perspective on the merits of caution, and the perils of reckless ignorance. My grandparents got a computer for Christmas a few years back, I do the tech support. You know what the majority of my calls were? "No, really it's ok. It's nearly impossible for you to screw it up so bad I can't fix it easily." Now there more of a focused nature about doing specific tasks. They're almost 80, grandpa installed his own ram upgrade (without me in attendence). Maintains his own virus protection, and updates. He's also the only person who reads the EULAs who's not writing articles on them. Grandma saves her geneology to a thumbdrive, and burns CD slideshows of grandkid pictures. They were terrified that they'd break it and then they'd have a broken computer. It took a while to overcome the inertia. But all it really took is patiently outlining what they should expect in the throws of a given problem, letting them ask for clarification, and not making them feel guilty about it when the did. For me it was a joy, but I like my grandparents. The only problem they ever had was when one of my uncles talked them into having a PC shop monkey upgrade them to XP, which he promptly fucked up. It offten takes someone who imagines they know better to make a true mess of a situation.

As for the person who asked the question. If it's a gift and you're doing the support, go with what you're comfortable supporting and which meets their needs. Their needs at this stage of the game being pretty modest in all likelyhood. Between making a homepage with all the links they need, properly installed configured antivirus suits, setup firewalls, and user accounts. (Including them in the decision making process, of course.) A little bit of hands on tutoring with some follow up coaching is all it will take. I'm convinced my faith in their good sense and expecation that this would be something they could both do and enjoy added years to my grandfather's life. It's clear as his time draws to a close; having something to do, new experiences, and learning opportunities was part of what kept them both (but him in particular) going as all their friends and peers began to die. When I got them that computer I thought I was just getting them a toy, or a luxury item to amuse and entertain. In reality I was buying them time, time which I got to spend better knowing them. One of the smartest fucking things I ever did.

Re:Yeah. "Windows" is the problem.

[Gribflex]

"No, really it's ok. It's nearly impossible for you to screw it up so bad I can't fix it easily."

That is probably the best advice that you can offer someone. Most people are so worried about breaking it that they won't do anything to it. Explaining that it's always fixable goes a long way to improving anyone's ability.

There's an easy fix for that....

[porcupine8]

You can download it at getfirefox.com.

But in all seriousness, not liking Safari is no reason not to get a Mac. Since I don't have 10.4 at home so I can't use the newest Safari anyhow (and old Safari really sucks) I use Firefox almost exclusively on my emac.

From the inside

[Danious]

Here's some advice form someone who's just finished building a new internet banking security system for the bank I work for:

DONT USE WINDOWS

Simple really.

Seriously, for someone who wasn't weaned on Windows, using a modern Linux desktop is a very viable proposition. The only trojan attack vectors we've seen are from Windows boxes. A recent survey stated that 50% of all trojanned machines run Windows XP SP2, so there's no safety there. Most are simple key-loggers which are bad enough, but there's a new wave of targetted banking site trojans designed to crack various protection schemes.

Install Linux, Mandriva is a good newbies distro. Get broadband with a hardware router/firwall. Put big icons on the panel for e-mail, browser and OpenOffice. Put a signle Bookmark for teh Banking site on the browser toolbar. Lock down the KDE desktop using Kiosk. Install Spamassasin to cut down on the phishing e-mails. Sign them up with a bank that supports Firefox (there's plenty, we do) and has a form of 2nd Factor Authentication. A smaller bank will be less of a target, but they need to be big enough to have proper security in place.

Most importantly, patiently explain to them WHY they must only ever use the bookmark to access thier banking, never reply to e-mails or follow links on other sites. Don't assume they won't understand the background, just issuing blanket orders to not do something is guaranteed to confuse and be forgotten/ignored. Explain it to them in simple, non-technical language and use analogies to things tehy do understand. If they understand the why, they will be better prepared when they do see an attack vector you haven't explicitally told them about.

John.

P.S. And yes, I've done this for my parents...