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China Jails Porn Site Leader For Life
eldavojohn writes "The AP has picked up the story of a man convicted of serving internet porn in China. They report that he has been jailed for life. Eight accomplices were given sentences ranging from a few months to almost a decade. Some might view internet pornography as morally wrong but I wouldn't think it to warrant a lifetime sentence." From the article: "Xinhua reported that police said it was difficult to know the exact amount of profits the Web site earned. Police found about 200,000 yuan ($25,000) in the bank accounts of the nine. When the site was closed in October last year, it contained more than 9 million pornographic images and articles, the police said."
I visit the websites for the articles.
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
From that website (dated December of 2005): I'm certainly not intimately familiar with these cases but I do hope that they are jailing the correct people and that these people deserve it. A life sentence is nothing to sneeze at, especially in China.
My work here is dung.
And to think, only 3 weeks ago Chinese officials tried to convince the UN that the Chinese government does not censor the internet.
Huh? Don't mind me, I'm just the new guy.
If pornographers are getting life, then spammers should get the death sentence. Of course, it would also undermine the capitalist underpinnings of the internet since porn and spam go hand in hand.
9 million pornographic images and articles
Tsk. Slackers. That's hardly worth buying a new spindle of DVDRs for, let alone going to prison for life.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
"Some might view internet pornography as morally wrong but I wouldn't think it to warrant a lifetime sentence"
Some view smoking marijuana as morally wrong but people spend decades in prison here for smoking a joint.
Chen Hui was handcuffed and lead out of People's Court in Shanxi by two buxom sherrif's deputies in expensive wigs.
"Oh, we'll punish the naughty boy," said the tall blonde one, stroking her gun suggestively.
The ______ Agenda
Ohh yea, you're right. I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if everything we did was punishable by life sentences?
What about an off-color remark on Slashdot? You're polluting the site! LIFE IN JAIL. How about a turn on red, with a sign that says "no turn on red?" Those stupid drivers need to spend their lives in jail! The entire cast of Lost or Battlestar Galactica need to be sent to prison as well, because their shows show too much skin!
Seriously dude, don't you have any fucking compassion? So, just because you don't want to run into any porn sites on the Internet (boo hoo), you think people should rot in jail for life over it? You're on scary son of a bith.
Don't you realize that it's the very freedom of information (whether you like it or not) that has made the Internet as popular and useful as it is?
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Obviously I don't condone such draconian measures, and I'm generally a free speech enthusiast.
But isn't it interesting how governments of two of the most important nations of the world have strict controls on pornography.
China, because they like censorship in general.
But India has always put tight controls on sexually-related material. I don't know if they have a decency/obscenity code that webmasters need to follow. But certainly there is next to no production of porn-related material (especially when compared to Japan and US).
We cannot call India "backwards" or "repressive" with regard to free speech or sexual expression. They just haven't warmed up to porn.
Perhaps pornography is simply a Western invention and a predilection that strikes people in Asia as bizzare. Then again, I have no doubt that people in these countries are freely downloading Western porn; they just aren't producing it themselves.
One has to ask whether tolerance of porn/erotica is less a measure of liberalism than social norms. On the other hand, I feel pretty sure that in Asia/India and Arab countries prostitutions is rampant.
So pick your poison: prostitution/AIDS or porn/stripping.
One might even make the argument that whereas porn has been infiltrated by lots of feminists/actresses-turned-directors, brothels have remained a bastion of male rule.
Maybe it boils down to the technological issues; once enough people are armed with videocameras and ftp accounts, mores will change. But until that time, people in China and India will go gaga over Paris Hilton and Western porn stars.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
I find this part of the story submission rather peculiar.
What is morally wrong is to impose your own morality (like porn is bad) on others.
Regardless whether this imposition is by a government or by an institution.
As long as such a thing as the consumption and serving of porn is done between consenting adults there is morally absolutely nothing wrong.
(Yes I know some in Holland, Michigan differ with me but I'm from the Original Holland)
As long as a society, like here the Chinese, is of the opinion they can meddle in the private affairs of their people they are at best suspect.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I ask the following as a genuine question, and I really would appreciate an answer.
I assume you understand that your beliefs and morality are not necessarily shared by others, just as I understand that you probably do not share my opinions. From this, however, the only fair conclusion I can draw is that I have no right to interfere with your actions unless they are infringing on my ability to exist happily and in a way that does not affect you.
Your post seems to indicate that you believe people who do not follow your moral code should be punished - therein lies my question: if you believe it is right to punish those who disagree with you simply for acting in a way that you find objectionable, without interfering with you personally, why is it not equally right for others to punish you for your acting in a way that they find objectionable, even if you do not do so in a way that affects them?
"Some might view internet pornography as morally wrong but I wouldn't think it to warrant a lifetime sentence."
In my supposedly free country, if I understand things correctly, and I have chatted with a lawyer about it, one can get 4 or 5 years of jail time for each non-genuine DVD or CD that you have in your posession. I don't think that is warranted either myself.
I don't even think the statutory damages are warranted myself.
all the best,
drew
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/262954
Sayings - Deterred Bahamian Novel
FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
A great reason why morality shouldn't be the sole basis for laws. Luckily, the US Supreme Court has overturned most laws that specifically say activites against the community morality are a crime. In countries as large as China, and the US, morals will vary greatly from place to place and person to person, and legislating it is a mistake. Those differences give us strength.
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
I suspect with less porn, there would be less intellect. Come on, geeks minus porn? They might convert to go out and (eek!) actually find sex! Real sex.. how does that work anyway? I've never tried...
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Pretty strong to have these two sentences on one line.
If I'd be living in your neighbourhood I would consider moving to a more enlightened place.
And that's something these poor Chinese victims of your type of 'Morality' can't do.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Yet, the government gives an implicit "okay" to prostitution. About 33% of Chinese men returning from the mainland to Hong Kong have purchased the services of a prostitute.
Why is pornography worse than prostitution? Pornography is about fantasy. Prostitution is about reality, and in China, prostitutes are sometimes children.
It seems that China has always quickly doled out heavy punishment for what it deams crime hoping to get the "big" message across to "the people." It apparently works, as they do have a very low crime rate in comparison to say, the good ole USA.
Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
Forget the fact that your mother and father doing pretty much the same, basic thing that most normal, pr0n sites show resulted in you being born, right? In fact, if it wasn't for "private, real-life pr0n", the species would die off in about ... oh, say ... one generation.
No one said that pr0n sites are for children, and any adult that gets negatively affected by pr0n is under no obligation to view that material again. It's not to everybody's liking, but that doesn't mean that it should be banned just because you don't like it.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Uh, are you referring to the porn sites, or slashdot?
Right wing (or in fact, any wing) religious extremists are always interesting to observe. The whole "I am right and you are wrong because you disagree with me. And incidentally, did I mention that I know that I'm right because it says so in an ancient book full of allegorical stories that has had a very dodgy history of translation and reproduction by illiterate monks" attitude leaves no basis for rational discussion. I wonder if there are any other groups of people in the world with similar blinkered views? Hmmm, let me think...
A One that isn't cold, is scarcely a One at all.
The most effective birth control is tied with richer 1st world countries, perhaps whitecollar jobs and education. Western European countries and Japan have generally low native birth rates, middle-class+ America probably is too to an extent though it's population keeps growing with immigrants (as it always has).
I don't know the dynamics, but probably it has to do with the cost of bring up kids as a middle/upper class family (it's more expensive to pay for college/toys/etcetera than what a low income family usually gives their kids), the fact that women are more likely to work a job, and other such factors.
So China really just has to become a 1st world country to reliably lower the birthrate. The other factors I have seen don't seem to count for much.
Dude, you really need to lay off the pipe.
Check out my foes list to see who is so retarded that they can't use the signature line!!!
...they mock God's evolution.
You believe they mock a diety you've freely elected to worship.
Please keep in mind that the rational part of the world, the one which has has never chosen to believe in the existence of idols or gods, doesn't necessarily want the "moral values" your fellow cultists have invented forced upon them.
If you stopped searching for trivial things which you claim are offensive to you then life would probably be alot better for everybody.
You like to hang out in a building on Sundays and sing songs idolising a superbeing. Others prefer to sit at home, masturbating, while watching videos of consenting adults performing sexual acts. And many others will spend their Sundays at the track, or pitch, or in a workshop, garage or lab. Some even go to the beach.
And horrors, many will spend their Sunday having sex! Gasp!
Harmless pornography may offend you but a lot of people find the crusades of the self-appointed moral elite to be far/em> more offensive.
Oh and, heh, here's an outrage for you to rant about...the captcha for this post is "incest".
I'm not trying to troll. If I were, I would be an Anonymous Coward. These crass web sites not only typically have no value as information, they are crass in the way that they mock God's evolution. They go against my ethics. I know I'm not alone in this.Ok. Here's my counter example.
Not only does your religous verbal defacation have no value as information, you are an ass in the way you think that because you don't agree, it's ok to send people to life in jail. Your intolerance goes against my ethics, I know I'm not alone in this. Hey everyone, let's lynch this person for being an ass.
Oh wait, I forgot...Free Speech.
You have the ability and the right to not view porn if you don't want to. You have the ability and right to install internet filtering software on your child's computer to "prevent harmful viewing of information". I personally believe that trying to kill off all the "bad" websites in way more harmful than letting a child see them, for one being, that child will have a very shallow and narrow understanding of life if you do. BUT, that's just my opinion and I'm not going to murder you because you think differently.
Be grateful you have the right in this country to say what you did in your posts; say them and not fear that the government will kill you. Say them and expect the worst thing that could happen is a bunch of pissed off people reply to your post. Respect that right because that is the VERY THING you say China destroyed, and did a good job at that.
And on a different topic... WTF is "God's evolution"?
I thought if you used the words God + Evolution side by side, then it would cause a massive implosion of the universe...
---FourChannel---
... is useless without pictures.
The spirit in which pornography is created and viewed promotes immorality.That's what YOU believe. Personally, I believe that sexuality shouldn't be suppressed, and I feel that the proliferation of pornography simply underscores our desire to be more open about sex. It shouldn't be a taboo. We're living and breathing organisms and it's a part of who we are. To deny that is to deny our very existence.
I don't believe pornography is created in a "spirit of immorality." I believe that some of it is over the top, as happens in anything, but I don't believe it's immoral any more then sex itself.
Take a look at one thing here - notice how I say "I believe" rather then putting this out there like fact? See, that's another part of being human. We have different beliefs. You need to respect my beliefs before I can try to respect yours.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Watching it, I think it's supposed to be done anally, which the girl will always love, and then you'll have your babies...? :-/
I'm still trying to figure out why she should swallow though, but she wants it because it taste good!
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Here's a funny story on hypocrisy in that vein:
About 10 years ago, I lived in the PRC for a couple of months doing database work. I remember going one of those big Samusung stores--the kind that are like computer bazaars with tons of vendors--and there were cops who stood outside and searched everyone's bags as they left to make sure that they didn't have any porn.
Later on, I got pickpocketed at a bus stop. When I went to the police station to report the crime, there were a bunch of cops in a lounge there watching an American porno movie.
Guess that explains what happens to the porn that the cops "confiscate" outside of those computer stores in China...
It's not hypocrisy in Chinese culture. It's because there have always been two major forces in Chinese governments. First is very strong moral conservatism. Because this is part of Confucianism the people involved are usually very upstanding and are not corrupt and generally quite idealistic though very very conservative. Then there is massive corruption because of the autonomy usually given to provincial and then local rulers. China's a big place with lots of people and the bureaucracy has always been too small to micromanage everything. Also because of its persecution by the First Emperor who was a Legalist Confucianism doesn't like legalism that much. The idea is to install good moral principles in the bureaucrats rather than have them follow strict laws. So local governors usually have a great deal of power. Also there is a saying in many parts of China "The world is big and Beijing is a long way away." On the flip side, the moral conservatives are *very* conservative and controlling micromanaging bastards(see pre-Deng Xiao Ping Communist Party for an example). The very things that allow corruption to flourish are *also* the things that allow people freedoms from central control. There's also the very important role that families and local area affiliations and clans (well not so much now) have to play. So in this situation you have a bunch of people in the central government who are not corrupt, idealistic and morally conservative trying to harshly enforce their brand of moral puritany. On the other hand you have the often much more free-wheeling provincial governors who don't care about what central government says. All of Chinese history has been a struggle to get a balance between the two extremes so that the micromanaging puritans can't control every aspect of people's lives and that corruption due to people not listening to central government doesn't get completely out of control. Both sides know this and there is a certain armed truce with the provinces and local areas listening to some things that the central government says (especially if sufficient force is applied) or at least pretending to and the central government tries to concentrate on the battles it can fight. Also the prostitution is probably occuring in the Southern provinces, particularly Guangdong and those have always been especially independent of Beijing, so much so that Beijing gets pissed off. Strangely enough the Southern Provinces can also be some of the most fiercely loyal to China, more specifically Han Chinese. I just laugh when people expected that the fact that Guangdong is the most rapidly developing area of China is going to lead to actions to topple the Communists. Now, if the Communists were non-Han Chinese then well maybe yeah.
Oops, sorry, forgot to format it properly:
It's not hypocrisy in Chinese culture. It's because there have always been two major forces in Chinese governments. First is very strong moral conservatism. Because this is part of Confucianism the people involved are usually very upstanding and are not corrupt and generally quite idealistic though very very conservative. Then there is massive corruption because of the autonomy usually given to provincial and then local rulers. China's a big place with lots of people and the bureaucracy has always been too small to micromanage everything. Also because of its persecution by the First Emperor who was a Legalist Confucianism doesn't like legalism that much. The idea is to install good moral principles in the bureaucrats rather than have them follow strict laws. So local governors usually have a great deal of power. Also there is a saying in many parts of China "The world is big and Beijing is a long way away."
On the flip side, the moral conservatives are *very* conservative and controlling micromanaging bastards(see pre-Deng Xiao Ping Communist Party for an example). The very things that allow corruption to flourish are *also* the things that allow people freedoms from central control. There's also the very important role that families and local area affiliations and clans (well not so much now) have to play.
So in this situation you have a bunch of people in the central government who are not corrupt, idealistic and morally conservative trying to harshly enforce their brand of moral puritany. On the other hand you have the often much more free-wheeling provincial governors who don't care about what central government says. All of Chinese history has been a struggle to get a balance between the two extremes so that the micromanaging puritans can't control every aspect of people's lives and that corruption due to people not listening to central government doesn't get completely out of control. Both sides know this and there is a certain armed truce with the provinces and local areas listening to some things that the central government says (especially if sufficient force is applied) or at least pretending to and the central government tries to concentrate on the battles it can fight.
Also the prostitution is probably occuring in the Southern provinces, particularly Guangdong and those have always been especially independent of Beijing, so much so that Beijing gets pissed off. Strangely enough the Southern Provinces can also be some of the most fiercely loyal to China, more specifically Han Chinese. I just laugh when people expected that the fact that Guangdong is the most rapidly developing area of China is going to lead to actions to topple the Communists. Now, if the Communists were non-Han Chinese then well maybe yeah.
I dunno if the Chinese government implicitly okays prostitution. Just because it is prevalent in some contexts does not mean that they condone it. I won't be surprised if they have prostitution "crackdowns" every now and then.
You see, pornography is very prevalent in China; heck it is as prevalent as pirated movies and software in China (keep in mind the estimates that >90% of software is pirated), meaning that there are parts of China where you can literally see this stuff in plain view just be strolling down the street (there is a positive correlation between prevalence and distance from Beijing, so you probably won't see this in Beijing). China does piracy crackdowns every now and then to show people (mostly the congresscritters in Washington) that they do care and will take a tough stance on piracy. Piracy is illegal in China. And you face extremely severe consequences if you are prosecuted. And that, my friend, is the big "if", since it is not uncommon to see cops visiting one of the many small stores selling pirated goods to buy stuff (at a discount, of course) for their own consumption. As I said, porn is quite prevalent. A lot of the places selling pirated movies also sell pirated porn. And you can sometimes even see explicit covers of such products as you are walking down the street because the vendors will sometimes set them up so that they are street-facing.
Sure, they'll throw a few guys in jail now and then, but this is just a show to tell people that the government is Mr. Tough Guy and that violating the laws is Bad For Your Health. But in practice, nobody--including most of the people in government--gives a damn.
The central government is also not that dumb. They know that if they strip people of their sources of pleasure, they will be in trouble (they already have more than enough boiling discontent that they are trying to keep a lid over), so I'm not surprised if they are purposefully limiting their action to a few show cases to just nominally assert their authority while unofficially condoning it. Of course, that probably isn't any consolation for the bloke in jail.
It's interesting you define this as hypocrisy, whereas the great nation of USA, who's biggest export is filth and pornography on an astronomical scale can also decry a "wardrobe malfunction" and get apoplectic about someone revealing a nipple in the middle of a football match. Time to get real, I think.
"I like to skate on the other side of the ice"
Um, hate to break it to ya, but ancient India produced some of the most kinkiest artworks known to man. In fact, pretty much all of Asia was, at one point in time, relatively sexually liberated. Some of them lost that liberation over time (I believe in India's case it had something to do with Muslim influence, both direct and indirect.), but many (most?) of them gained inhibitions after interacting with the West. As I understand it, Japan didn't have any porn taboo at all until the American occupation.
It might seem odd that these formerly-liberated countries now seem more prudish than we are, but you should realize that there's a difference between legal tolerance and social tolerance. I think that porn and prostitution (and other sexual "issues") tend to be more socially tolerated in many Asian countries, but they aren't legally tolerated. Over here, they're legally tolerated but (comparatively) not as socially tolerated. 100 years ago porn was illegal in the USA, and I believe we spread the porn = bad sentiment far and wide. Just because we've become less inhibited during that short century doesn't mean that the "values" we shared with (I'm tempted to say "inflicted upon") other nations will disappear just as quickly.
But anyway, long story short: you're a tad crazy to say that the West invented porn. The Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Indians, the Japanese, and the Chinese all had works we'd label "hardcore pornography" by today's standards. We invented porn in the sense that we greatly popularized the idea that it was wrong, but the institution was thriving long before we arrived on the scene.
Since Justice Cardoza sat on the Court of Appeals of New York, there has been an effort by judges to remove morality from the common law, as evidenced by contract law, and to a lesser extent, torts. Legislatures will, from time to time, legislate from a moral basis. However, if they mention a moral basis too bluntly, the Supreme Court has been pretty consistent with striking them down. No system as complex as the legal system is ever subject to any absolutes, but the US has done a pretty good job of legislating for other reasons than morality, despite the prevelance of strongly religious figures throughout the history of all legislatures in this country. There are definitely no laws that have been challenged that specifically make illegal immoral behavior. Contrast that with specific laws in other countries which do exactly that, but don't define the crime. Vague criminal statutes are unconstitutional in this country, and anything based on community standards that gets reviewed gets struck down for that reason, because standards change and are based on who applies them. The famous Supreme Court rules about pornography seem to run contrary to this, but no one has had sufficient standing to challenge them on that basis, as the general type of person prosecuted under them are child pornography. Does that answer your question more throroughly?
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
Wikipedia is censored in China again you insensitive clod
Since when did God speak up against porn? Did he talk to you personally? And, if so, did anyone else hear it? Did God instruct you to be the next prophet? Have you spoken to your therapist about this? Because.. I can't really recall having seen anything in the Old Testament (closest you get is tearing down some phallic symbols, which comes down to Idol Worship, which has been put forth as a different sin: worshipping the material world). The New Testament seems to be really quiet about it, too, despite recorded instances of porn from that era. Some of it far more creative (and, occasionally, outrageous) than most the stuff out there today. You do, however, get some pointers about "letting him who is without sin cast the first stone" and such, though, which does have some applicability here. Are you without sin, by your faith? After the crucifixion, the next Roman emperor was Caligula, whose rein contained some of the most outrageous perversions seen so far, at least if you consider the scale. Rumors abound of his sister dying from brutal sodomy, as I recall. You'd think the people contributing to the formation of the church in this era would have written about almost nothing else if they were as preoccupied with people's sexual habits and preferences as you are. About the only notable admonitions in the bible regarding sex, are to lay off the sheep (attributable to the notion that animals can't consent to being the recipient in sex), not to hump a man (attributable to communicable diseases; there are many other "rules" in the bible that clearly are aimed at disease control in an era which had precious little of it), fidelity (attributable to reducing violence in society), prostitution (again, communicable diseases, plus the modern objections to it) and crossdressing (not sure about that one, but I'm fairly sure you can put it down to something in the culture at the time). Do not be so eager to deal out judgement.
Erotic art was there in many temples and caves in India, Japan and other civilizations.
But with the advent of Christianity with its much more constricted views of right and wrong, other civilizations changed.
Ironic that what west sees as backwardness in other cultures is actually introduced by west itself.
This is the kind of tripe that a gross ignorance of foreign history and prehistory and of comparitive religions will get you.
First of all, the presence of erotic art does not denote a broad cultural acceptance of erotica. Second, cultures go on swings of greater and lesser acceptance of erotica -- even Western civilization went from the period of the Inquisition to the period of Renaissance to the period of Puritanism. Japanese culture, which you cited in particular, had numerous shifts in culture to accept and reject sexuality in various forms without the influence of Christianity playing a major role (being actively driven underground for centuries by the Shogunate after a brief introduction in the 16th century).
Furthermore, you apparently have no understanding of the greater influence of Confucian mores (originated in the 5th century BC) on Eastern views of sexuality. Confucianists widely viewed the act of sex itself as meant only to be used for procreation and had very similar views to the West on the "dirtiness" of sex, on the necessity of sex being only between a man and a wife, on the subservience of women to men, on the persecution of homosexuality, etc. two millenia before China had contact with the West. While Taoism was far more accepting of sex, it is Confucian mores that have been the dominant. These mores, developed independently of the West, also happen to be a large part of why the Chinese are so willing to accept authoritarian systems -- Confucianism is inherently a hierarchical system -- and have been a driving force behind many of Communist China's morality laws.
Also, if you think that India is a hotbed for free-love just because it was the home of the Kama Sutra, tantric sex traditions, and erotic temple art, you have a LOT to learn about the many forms of Hinduism and how dominant their various influences have been as well as the way that most polythestic cultures respected the idea of "a time and a place" for sex rites while leaving marriage as the dominant institution.
Next, I'd just like to note that while it was Jesus that said that if your eye leads you to sin, you should pluck it out, it was the millenia old tradition of Judaism that Christianity inherited most of its sexual mores from. All monotheistic religions that we have good records of the beliefs of have had strong prohibitions against sexual immorality, and you'd probably be surprised to find out how many still existing polythestic and animistic religions have VERY strong prohibitions against pre-marital and extra-marital sex in spite of existence of fertility rites and primitive porn.
All human cultures have, with time, developed some sort of bias towards sex primarily between husbands and wives. All human cultures have had porn, prostitution, and adultery in spite of their society saying it's wrong in the general case. Very, very few cultures have accepted polyamory outside of ritualized days and events, and yet people have left evidence that they indulged anyway. It's like there's competing biological needs involved or something...
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").