Blood Protein Used to Split Water
brian0918 writes "The Imperial College in London is reporting that genetically-engineered blood protein can be used to split water into oxygen and hydrogen. The abstract can be viewed for free from the Journal of the American Chemical Society." From the article: "Scientists have combined two molecules that occur naturally in blood to engineer a molecular complex that uses solar energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. This molecular complex can use energy from the sun to create hydrogen gas, providing an alternative to electrolysis, the method typically used to split water into its constituent parts. The breakthrough may pave the way for the development of novel ways of creating hydrogen gas for use as fuel in the future."
Now we just have to figure out if the amount of energy needed to synthesize the blood protein (say, X liters of hydrogen in a fuel cell) is less than
the energy of the hydrogen produced from this process...
--
Rare 680X0 and PowerPC posters!
The Imperial College in London is reporting that genetically-engineered blood protein can be used to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.
I can hear it now... "No blood for oil! or hydrogen!"
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
I eagerly await the return to the days of human/animal sacrifice. "It's for the good of the country! We need to have more SUVs on the road!" Bow down, I say!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
-b.
The mention efficiency many times in the article, but do not mention the most important efficiency number - that is total energy in/out.
... at 4.7 MJ/L (Wikipedia) * 1/1000 (L/mL) * 1/3.6e6 (kWh/J) * 1e6 (J/MJ) =
So, a quick calculation of efficiency:
FTA
Light in:
6 hours, 450 W light = 2.7 kWh
H energy out:
0.044 mL H
= 5.7 e -5 kWh
Disclaimer:
This probably has an error, please help me correct it.
It has been a really long time since I did physics or dimensional analysis.
I could not find in the paper the pressure for the 0.044 ml of generated hydrogen, nor it's weight, so I made a gross assumption the energy density listed in Wikipedia (at 700 bar) was close enough.
Regardless, if you put in 2.7 units of energy and get out 0.000057 units... that seems really (s)low.
I wonder if you could bioengineer a plant that could survive in the ocean similar to seaweed, which would secrete this chemical. Eventually all the oceans would turn into Hydrogen and Oxygen... and LIFE WOULD BE DOOMED! Bwahahaha
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
If we're lucky, you'd not only get clean water, you'd get an abundance of (clean, perhaps?) energy that could be converted to electricity.
There are two types of people in the world: those who divide people into two types and those who don't.
I would like to praise the submitter for providing a link to a peer-reviewed article. Does not happen very often, worth mentioning.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
We'll need one of these that can split Oxygen and Carbon.
(ie - remove Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere, and plant the Carbon somewhere safe - like maybe in empty petroleum resevoirs, where it came from).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Given that its from a living thing anyway, it seems like if breaking down hydrogen and oxygen in mass had any survival benefit, natural selection would have figured it out already.
Obviously, caution is always needed in genetic tinkering, but still....I think the knee jerk "OMG its going to zap all our oceans!" is unwarranted.
Currently, rHSA(wt) is manufactured in an industrial scale, which allows us to use this zinc-protein photosensitizer in practical applications Thus the raw materials are cheap enough that one could imagine scaling this up significantly. Moreover since its behavior is catalytic, the protein isn't used up, so you wouldn't need to replace it very often.
With regard to efficiency, in the Abstract they also point out that their system is more efficient than the previous standard in organic photo-synthesis:
The efficiency of the photoproduction of H2 was greater than that of the system using the well- known organic chromophore, tetrakis(1-methylpyridinium-4-yl)porphinatozinc(I
> Do you have to refuel this?
Yes, but they are still wondering if it's better to refill this stuff with water, or with human bodies...
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
I'm pleased to see alternative technologies to split water using sunlight, but the idea is not new.
There is a group at UNSW who have been working on ceramics which use sunlight to split water (via a process of electrolysis). It's still in research (mostly due to efficiency), but it's an interesting option if you're interested in this stuff.
Their website is pretty sparse, but there is a story on them here.
It has, it's called photosynthesis. Granted, here you're not liberating free hydrogen. But to counter the GP argument of using up all water on earth... can you imagine how incredibly unstable the local environment would become for one of these organisms in the wild? They'd be very liable to kill themselves off either through pH changes or simply setting their environment on fire if they reproduced unchecked. That combined with the fact you could never split all the water on earth faster than it will recombine if sunlight is your only energy input.
Net loss of 1 H2O molecule in the Krebs Cycle. And plenty of other places as well, I assume.
It's impossible, one presumes, for any standard cellular organism to destroy all water in its environment, because then no biochemical processes could occur and it would be dead.
I presume the way this works is that they isolate the protein, rather than adding the organism to the water. And proteins don't self-replicate.
Who said anything about reproduction, let alone unchecked reproduction? The article says it is a molecular complex, not a living organism capable of reproduction. I expect it is just an enzyme to catalyse the reaction, so I wouldn't worry about this any more than you would be inclined to worry about naturally occuring cellulase suddenly going rampant and destroying all plant life on earth in a matter of hours. Generally being somewhat informed is a prerequisite critical analysis of risks and any ensuing scaremongering (okay, that's not true, i just think it should be a prerequisite!).
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
Ok, ok, OK. I promise not to post for the entire weekend, sigh.
Damn.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Yeh was thinking the same. If we could break down carbon and sulphur compounds in the air, it would be a big step forward in fixing global warming. And also in atmospheric engineering, which we might need if we decide to create an atmosphere on Mars.
Imagine if photosynthesis could work with whatever compound we wanted. We could have it on space ships to break the CO2 breathed out back into O2 to rebreath also. Might also work for divers.
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Actually, I thought the abstract said that the compound used is oxidized, meaning that the oxygen is captured and only the hydrogen is released. If I read the abstract wrong, please correct me.
My (admittedly layman's) understanding is thus: they have a molecule that sticks to oxygen. Put the molecule into water and it grabs the oxygen away from H2O, releasing H2. That by itself is not very impressive. Sodium does something similar. So here's the cool part, when exposed to sunlight, the molecule releases its oxygen - thus the process will go on so long as you have sunlight and water. This is only interesting because the molecule works like a catalyst.
IF it really works (I am cautiously optimistic) this could be the biggest discovery in the history of the world. It could mean that our civilization is no longer on the road to oblivion. It could mean no more energy wars (but don't worry, we'll still have to fight the United Atheist Alliance).
Just catch some small animals and stuff them in the gas-tank. :)
The abstract also mentions "In the presence of the colloidal PVA-Pt as a catalyst and triethanolamine (TEOA) as a sacrificial electron donor, the photosensitized reduction of water to H2 takes place." This basically means that electron fro TEOA is being used to reduce water to hydrogen. This chemical (TEOA) is oxidized and has to be replenished to maintain the H2 production rate. I am not disparaging their results (they are valuable, otherwise it would not be published in such a reputed journal), but trying to put things in perspective. Compare this to the reports of water splitting using titanium dioxide and other ceramics ( http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006ApPhL..89p3106P, http://edu.chem.tue.nl/6KM11/files/Project%20repor ts%202003%202004/Photocatalytic%20water%20splittin g.pdf ) where water is split to yield hydrogen and oxygen without the need for any "sacrificial electron donor".
(The molecule would "eat" it's own host up.)
This might be of interest to you.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
I can hear it now.
``Bloody hydrogen!''
now immagine that water molecules could fight back! what a mess! war of the worlds! (hypothetical joke, of course)
The NaCl in the sea water may interfere with the catalytic pathway in question, its another story altogether really
If you can read this, it's already too late.
Not sure about the recombinant albumin, but part of my job involves pharmaceutical purchasing, and a vial of 20mL of 25% human serum albumin can be obtained for approximately $13. The human version is produced by precipitation from donated blood and is used quite routinely in the hospital to treat various conditions such as shock or malnutrition. Also, many medications are packaged with albumin in the vial (to provide a binding surface for the drug molecules).
I would say though that the "manufactured in an industrial scale" statement is a bit misleading. Purified blood proteins in general are ungodly expensive. For instance, immunoglobins, which you might get to protect you against infection if you've been exposed to, say, Hepatitis B or C, are some of the most expensive drugs we have, ranging up into the thousands of $ per shot. Most of these are refined from human blood, but even if you have trillions of bacteria slaving away for you producing recombinant proteins, it's the purification and quality control steps that are the killer.
Moses would have happily run the service on Sunday; it was Saturday he would have skipped. Hmmm, except he didn't even have those laws yet, and when he did, Version 1.0 crashed (literally) and only Version 2.0 was widely marketed. Success of the product is still debated.
"All successful systems accumulate parasites" -- Hal Hixon
Porphyrin chemistry is very interesting and has been studied for over 100 years. This news is both exciting and old news, because porphyrins and related isomers have been the subject of continued research. For very detailed information about porphyrin chemistry, refer to The Porphyrins edited by David Dolphin. Also, review the research of Martin Gouterman. In biological systems, porphyrins are found commonly in heme-type proteins used for oxygen transport and cytochrome P450 in the liver for metabolizing biological compounds including pharmaceutical products, and as chlorophyll in plants. Porphyrins have served as catalysts for organic reactions in industry, photodynamic therapy for cancer, molecular devices including sensors and switches, and model compounds for the active sites of enzymes. My thesis, which available for download through OhioLink:
4 18
http://www.ohiolink.edu/etd/view.cgi?akron1133950
details the photophysical characterization of N-Confused tetraphenylporphyrin and characterization of zinc N-Confused tetraphenylporphyrin.
Upon reading this post on Slashdot, I was pleasantly surprized that the subject of my thesis has some similarities to a related compound that could be used for further research into catalyzing an energy source. In one way I'm surprized, and in another I'm not, and I'm glad that one of the Slasdot crowd submitted the post. Porphyrin chemistry is vast, interesting, and complex.
Happy reading!
n the presence of the colloidal PVA-Pt as a catalyst and triethanolamine (TEOA) as a sacrificial electron donor, the photosensitized reduction of water to H2 takes place. [Emphasis mine]
Isn't this a problem? How do you restore the triethanolamine without using energy?
So scientists have invented a way for the machines to get cheap hydrogen power FROM OUR BLOOD?
1) Energy doesn't come from out of the ether; even oil comes from sunlight's energy, ultimately. All organic matter is fuel, and it took a lot more energy (from the sun) to produce that fuel than will be obtained from burning it. That would be the case even if extraction and separation were free, which is far from reality. It takes a LOT more energy to vaporize water into steam than is obtained from the mechanical energy in steam. Even a Carnot engine is less than 40% efficient. But guess what? That lack of efficiency doesn't matter when the heat is free, from geothermal to solar sources. Are you going to tell me geothermal is a "non-starter" because of the difference in energy input vs. output? Didn't think so.
2) I think you mean the First Law of Thermodynamics, conservation of energy. The Second Law simply states that the entropy of the universe will continue to increase.
3) Hydrogen need not be stored as cold liquid in a tank. The focus of hydrogen technology right now is matrices that can absorb hydrogen at one pressure / temperature, then release it with a pressure / temperature swing in a controllable fashion. Other ideas involve chemically releasing hydrogen (from ammonia, for example) as needed. No one said gaseous hydrogen was the be-all end-all.
4) Bicycles are great, but we should be riding those regardless of what fuel goes in the gas tank. It's also difficult to, say, move furniture with a bicycle.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
such an organism in the wild could very well turn our planet into a dustbowl
So why haven't trees stripped every ounce of Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere?
Because there is more to a chemical process than one input (such as water).. For photosynthesis, there are many chemicals and input sources that are necessary. Sunlight being the most critical element, as it's what provides the energy.
You can do some simple math to figure out how much energy would be necessary in a 100% efficient environment to convert the ocean to Hydrogen and Oxygen.. Then take into account that very little of the high energy solar radiation actually gets to the earth's surface. Then take into account the starvation of constituent ingredients. In photo-synthesis, you need carbon dioxide, Oxygen and water. I don't recall the exact cycle. But for the engine to operate you need to efficiently feed all ingredients in the exact mixture. In nature, this happens through diffusion.. The "waste" products slowly ooze out, while the ingredients seep in (with sun-light permiating based on ideal geographic locations).
Then you have competition between the cells.. They fight over one another, thus starving one or more ingredients. But much like a database deadlock situation. If A blocks B for resource 1 and B blocks A for resource 2, then you have an inpass.
Finally, there are counter-weights in nature. As the chemical makeup of the surroundings change (due to super-saturation of new elements, and th starvation of others'), the ability to do business as usual degrades. The chemical engines themselves, eventually become the food source of some other mechanism.
Thus, even in a homogenous environment of some genetically engineered cellular factory, it would be nearly impossible for the oceans to run dry. SOOOO many factors would kick in LONG before any appreciable progress was made.
Now, it's possible under the right circumstances for a desert's lake to dry up, for example (assuming the right minerals exist to promote cellular replication).
But as other posters have noted, if this were an easy thing to occur, it would have already happened naturally and there wouldn't be water on earth today.
-Michael