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Linux Desktops Catching On In Education
digihome writes to point us to an appreciation of the state of Indiana's project of moving students from Windows desktops to Linux. In about a year, 22,000 students have made the switch, using a variety of Linux distributions. The crn.com writer tried switching his own two children to Linux laptops. From the article: "'So Dad,' [the 10-year-old son] asked. 'What is the difference between Linux and Windows?' I tried to explain but it was a waste of breath. 'What difference do you see?' I asked back. 'Nothing, really.'"
Well, since there's no difference, I might as well stick with Windows.
Reminds me of the time I loaned a thinkpad running ubuntu to a roomate of mine, who I would say was a garden variety computer user. She had no idea what linux or ubuntu was. I showed her how to launch firefox and openoffice. She was working on term papers that same day, no need for me to do anything at all. That said, I still think even ubuntu has some ground to cover when it comes to interoperability with windows and I do think that ground will have to be covered in the desktop arena by linux rather then MS (who won't/can't do it). Still, it seem that for about 95% or so of the things the average home users does with a computer, the differences between linux and windows seem to be fading fast.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
...for training?
I work at a school district. I'm the most Linux-saavy of the four IT employees, and I'm still very much a novice. For us to make a transition to Linux, we'd need training and good support. It's been talked about, but sticking with MS has (at least on paper) come out being cheaper for the time being. And that's not even addressing the problem of teachers who are scared enough of Windows, IE, and MS Office; it's pulling teeth to get them to use StarOffice.
So how about it? What's a good way for us to make the leap into Linux without dropping a load of cash?
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I'm surprised the author didn't go with the ol' "Microsoft Windows kills kittens. You don't want your OS to kill kittens... do you Timmy?"
Dad: "The difference is, Son, that it didn't come pre-installed."
Son: "What does installed mean?"
Dad: "GO TO YOUR ROOM!"
Son: (mumbles) "I wanted a PS3 not stupid leaf-nuts...."
I don't see how exposing them to another operating system isn't going to help prepare them for the real world. The more OS's they are exposed to early on, the better. Windows is everywhere, so why not give them the opportunity to use something that may not be as mainstream (in homes) now, but could be in the future? I use a windows laptop at work, help with the Linux servers, and have a Mac at home. In my opinion, the more you know, the better off you will be.
Then the parent smacked the kid upside the head with a perl manual, and the child was thusly enlightened.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
``Way to set them up for computer litterate jobs in the real world. :rolleyes:''
You mean like system administration, web development, software development, high performance computing, physics simulation, embedded systems development, etc. etc.?
I and others seem to have no problems getting and performing these jobs with our *nix experience.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
These kind of articles are just dumb. Of course, you're not going to see issues in the first half-hour, if people are just using a browser. The issue comes when the kids wants to load on some Windows software that all their friends are using, then suddenly the operating system matters dramatically. "I put in the CD that came with my iPod, but the computer isn't working." "I got this cool game for my birthday, but it's not working."
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Let me get this straight: He claims Linux is equal to Windows by using web-based email, web-based chat clients, web-based music stations, and web-based text processing.
I fail to see how this article has anything to do with the pro's and cons of a Linux desktop, since you can do any of those same things on any platform with a web connection and browser with a flash plugin (for pandora).
Let's see what his 10 year old has to say about it when he wants to play the latest PC games, copy music to his iPod using iTMS, and/or run software his friends are running.
I'm sorry, I AM a K-12 admin for a fairly large school system (10,000 desktops) and we use Windows for several non-linux bashing reasons: Exchange, AD, compatibility with other districts, and price/support to staying the course as opposed to rebuilding everything.
My sysadmin desktop of choice? I use FreeBSD and Ubuntu with remote desktop. Just because I can handle it, doesn't mean everyone here can, especially when they use Windows at home. One thing about teachers, you don't rock their boat. Let their classroom be about them and their students and all is well.
If you're half as beautiful naked, you'd be 4 times as beautiful with twice as many clothes on.
Yep, because after growing up with Commodores and Apples in school, I found it completely impossible to work on anything else. It's a good thing companies still use WFW 3.11, because how would I ever transfer that knowledge to later versions of Windows with their radical innovations? On a similar token, we should stop teaching foreign languages, since it is a waste of time to speak those less useful languages. It's not like broadening your educational horizon helps in picking up other things, right?
P.S. It's literate, not litterate.
It appears that most of the /. community doesn't really remember desktop computing before, say about Windows95?
/. such things would be important... guess not
All the derisive comments about Linux used to apply to Windows... for a very long time. One of the good things
about that problem is that it taught many of us to work with computers, rather than simply use applications.
Learning to use Excel or Word is not learning to use a computer. Figuring out how to run Doom on a pc is not
learning about computers.
Linux is a GOOD way to learn about computers... Things like network configurations and why you need them, what
is HAL anyway? What are all those programs in the 'running processes' list? Why do I need to block ports?
I would have thought that here on
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Here in my university in Brazil, they moved all the computers to linux (fedora) and guess what, it is destroying our capacity. We're a journalism and film school, now, how can our students be eligible to internships if they don't have Adobe Pagemaker, Adobe InDesign, Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro to learn? I really like the GIMP, OO and other F/OSS initiatives, I have linux at home in one of my machines but no way the students will be able to do state-of-the-art desktop publishing and film editing using linux, that was a bad idea from the start and it's reflecting now, the last film festival promoted by our city (actually by our university) had not a single movie made by us!!! Linux simply killed our capacity to produce here...
I'd exchange it anytime for Mac OS or Windows for doing DTP and film.
-- Por mais que eu ande no vale das trevas e da morte, meu PowerMac G4 Não Travará!!!
That has been the same from day one.
Spectrum vs C64,
Atari ST vs Amiga
PC vs Mac
new PC vs old pc
Windows 3.1 vs W95
etc etc etc
You are right about the limited amount of Linux specific games at the moment, we need a resolution that does not involve simply running PC games.
Would kids care if they had to reboot their PC to play the best game in existance?
What benefit would you have booting from CD and running a cut down linux kernel for the game?
Secure access, you know the system is as sent out and you know the chances of cheaters is less.
All that just for treating the PC like a console.
liqbase
"'So Dad,' [the 10-year-old son] asked. 'What is the difference between Linux and Windows?'
Well son the big difference is that all your friends will be playing games and posting nude videos of themselves and you'll be loading kernels and learning the intricacies of Sokoban but hey, no viruses in Pine!
This
I work in the real world, and I use Linux all day.
I bought my wife a Toshiba, which came with WinXP (despite my protestations). I thought I'd just let her use XP (non-administrator) until it got too messed up, then reformat using Linux. To my surprise, she complained the first day. She hated all of the preinstalled software asking her to buy this and that. She didn't even know what McAfee was, let alone want to deal with the SUBSCRIBE NOW!! popups.
I told her I could fix it, and put Ubuntu Edgy (pre-release, even!) on there. She's perfectly happy with it now. I asked her if she likes it better or worse than the other (XP), and she replied that it was exactly the same, but without the annoying popups.
As an aside, my 6-year-old is a whiz with XUbuntu on his Dell 700MHz machine.
I think we Linux geeks have "failure to launch" syndrome. We worry about every little detail and think that everyone's going to hate our product, find it buggy/insufficient/unfamiliar, yadda yadda. The fact of the matter is that your average person probably won't notice much of a difference in most cases, and will usually just cope with the ones they do, just like they've always done with Windows.
Windows isn't better or bug free. It's just a different set of annoyances and insufficiencies that people have learned to ignore and work around. If people are going to learn to ignore bugs, maybe they can ignore ones that will be fixed quicker. If they're going to work around inadequacies, maybe they can work around ones that they have the potential to implement themselves, given the aptitude.
Education is a great stage to get kids acquainted with Linux. By the time these kids are teens and adults, Linux will have progressed immensely, and they probably WILL be using Linux on corporate desktops. You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally, Marty!
Not me. I've been using the same Apple
][+ for almost 30 years! Only thing is
that reading Slashdot in 40 columns is
REALLY rough. Maybe I should've sprung
for an OrangeMicro 80-column card, huh?
My blog
Buy the kid a game console. even if they have a PC you'll probably end up getting them a game console or two anyways.
some of my favorite games run on Linux, but a person of your unrefined tastes would probably not enjoy them.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
you obviously haven't used Linux or a while. Well, that or the only thing you've seen is WM, Black Box something equally as easy on the resources. At home, I'm running Sabayon Linux with Gnome, XFCE and KDE, all enhanced with AIGLX. Quite frankly, my desktop blows away anything with the Windows label, including Vista, in performance and appearance, both while doing stuff (minimizing, closing, moving windows and so on), and while sitting still.
If you're looking for a beauty contest, Linux wins hands down as long as you are using something newer than Redhat 3!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
If they're an IT employee then I want them to have experience with multiple platforms or I'm not interested in them. I want to know that they have the kind of mind that drives them crazy until they figure things out. I want people who can't help but think about it when they're at home in the shower.
If they're any other kind of employee, I know that all [credible] operating systems basically do the same things and all of them behave more or less the same way, and they have basically the same things in them, just different places. So I'm trying to hire someone with a brain, as opposed to someone with experience in specific applications. A person who depends on that is not only useless if I switch applications, but may actually require major retraining if I just change versions of the application. I don't want someone who learned by rote, I want someone who figures things out.
Finally, most people clearly do not give a fuck if people have the computer skills the job description calls for. Oh sure, if it's an IT job, you can't get the job unless you have every single bullet point. I don't have any Veritas experience and that has really kicked my ass. But if it's anything else, they don't take the computer requirements seriously anyway. Practically every office job in existence today, including every teaching job for example (the classroom is an office of sorts as well) requires familiarity with Microsoft Office, yet when I have had IT jobs at various places, I have spent an inordinate amount of time explaining to people how to perform basic tasks in Office.
So, no, I do not think there is any significant detriment. And yes, I have thought about it. And no, I am not a Linux fanatic. Although I have used Linux on my primary system at various times (and in fact the only working computer I currently own and used on a regular basis is a laptop running ubuntu) at work I have two Windows XP systems and a Dual G5 on my desk. I could put Linux on a system, and use it; I could use vmware to run any recalcitrant windows programs. I don't because the software I need to use most often is Windows-only and it would make no fucking sense. I do support linux, because I think it has the best chance to give me what I want, at least out of the current list of mainline operating systems.
Application support is a real issue, although frankly 99% of the time there is a working FoSS alternative to whatever one is doing on Windows. There are some real exceptions, such as high-end content creation, but they are gradually going away as software with that functionality is introduced for Linux. Even video editing is finally coming into view.
Driver support, however, is a non-issue. When you purchase hardware for windows, you buy hardware that is windows certified. If you want to purchase hardware for Linux, you should do the same thing. Barring that, you must do your homework. All major computer vendors are happy to provide you systems with hardware known to work with linux, and typically it does not come at a cost premium. You simply must know what you're buying. Any substantially older hardware, as is common in schools and the like, is almost certainly supported already, with the possible exception of some wifi hardware.
TCO is a combination of all of these issues, but Linux requires less maintenance/attention than Windows does. I don't think that's even really an arguable point. Assuming that you have planned intelligently, Linux will pretty much ensure you a lower TCO. Planning is where most things fall down, frankly. Measure twice, cut once...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I can't use Windows anymore - there just too much missing in Windows. For example:
- virtual desktops - just LOVE them
- gnome-vfs - seemlessly edit files/watch vids/listen to music over ssh/ftp/smb/whatever
- powerful terminal for automated tasks - not much to explain
- software with clean interface - don't you just hate those vendor-specific apps on windows of which everyone looks as if it was from a different story?
- no bloatware out-of-box - when you buy laptop you usually get system preloaded with trials, demos, etc. and with 'rescue disk' which also rescues all the demo software. so either buy another copy of windows to get a clean desktop at the beginning or just spend a lotta time cleaning up the crap
- on linux, all my config files are stored in my home directory, and pretty much forces me to store all my data in one place - I know this can be set on windows, too, but it's extra effort
It took me a long time to switch from Windows to Linux and feel comfortable.
But it would take me _MUCH_ longer to switch back.
I disagree . Why would an employer find it less attractive when someone also knows Linux , aside from Windows . The more you know the better . to use only 1 OS , that would be fanatic . and could you clarify the part about 'they seem to be detached from the reality of the end-user' ? Linux works fine for most end-users .
Slipping shoelaces ?
My confidence in smooth Linux migrations for ordinary users took a pretty good hit over thanksgiving, when (for kicks mostly) I booted my mother's machine with Austrumi. My mother uses the computer *only for checking her hotmail and clicking the links she's sent by friends. I don't think she could do a google search without help. I set the firefox startup page to her hotmail account, and for good measure invited her to gmail. Well a day later I basically had a mutiny on my hands. My mother was very put off about having to find the "Compose" link in gmail. Incidentally, she's also kinda put off by the 2-3 dozen spam messages in her hotmail box every day. My brother insisted that i "put it back". Near as I can tell, he was looking at his fantasy football web pages and got a dialog about mismatched certificates, and concluded that I had broken the machine. What I'm saying is that there's a class of user for whom change == malfunction. Some of these people are CEOs, btw.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Oh please wise one, define those games that you play so the world can acknowledge your vast superiority in game choice.
And while you are at it? What defines refined taste in games? I think taste for games, music, beauty, is mostly subjective.
I think kids should be taught as many operating systems as possible. Sure I use Linux, Mac, and sometimes frit around with the BSD(free).
Some windows only games are good.
And sometimes, just sometimes, a net connection and windows will inspire someone to code, learn linux, and I would bet 80% of the newer users here started with windows.
Baby steps.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Well, part of the issue I have with this opinion is the dreaded concept of "computer literacy."
Years and years ago, I bumped into my old elementary school principal. He asked me to come back and talk to some of the teachers about using computers in their classrooms. Every teacher I spoke to said the same thing, "We have to teach kids not to be afraid of computers."
Now, I grew up using a computer--a multimillion dollar mainframe. I was never "afraid" of using it. As I mentioned to the principal, "These are kids who hang upside-down from steel jungle gyms. They aren't afraid of anything--least of all a hunk of plastic." It is adults who wasted time with the whole concept of "computer literacy" because they had to go back and relearn this stuff, so the kids obviously had to as well.
Where computers work in the classroom is the same way that they work in business: they enhance productivity. Whether that means they can assist in communicating concepts that the teacher is trying to communicate or they can remove some of drudgework of school (eg, writing a paper, drawing graphs) is unimportant. The computers are tools for the student, like pencils, pens, notebook paper, graph paper, etc. They are not a raison d'etre in of themselves.
I have some personal insight with the kids using Linux. We have four daughters ranging from 3 to 10. All of them want to be on the computer, and particularly the Internet. Well it certainly cuts into Dad's time grinding to a new level on WoW when they want to play dress up their Stardolls or feed their Neopets. (Okay, kidding there, sort of.) To solve the never ending fight for computer time I took some old, non-XP friendly computers and installed Kubuntu. All of our computers, Kubuntu or XP, have Firefox for browsing and OpenOffice for documents. Guess what? The kids could care less which computer they use and barely even noticed a difference until I pointed it out. Our eldest looked at me when I explained she was using Linux, got a puzzled look and said "So?" Enough said. My wife has had more trouble adapting and for the most part avoids the Linux boxes only because "its different" even though she admits she can still do all the things she normally does. Exposing the kids to a variety of systems only gets them more attuned to the underlying similarities so that they are less inclined to be intimidated by something new as much of the older generations are.
Well, I think the problem here is that you're not picking a target. Let me.
Are you worried about a *nix-raised child being unable to handle a Windows desktop because the office uses only Word/Excel/Powerpoint?
Maybe you mean that someone raised to administer a *nix machine/system wouldn't be capable of understanding how to use a sophisticated OS like Windows?
Maybe you are concerned that someone who is raised in a *nix environment will be incapable of writing software for the Windows platform?
I can't speak about the third---I don't write code---but sweet enola gay son those first two suggestions are obvious moose-kaka. I mean, are you really suggesting that someone who understands how to use Open Office couldn't figure out MS Word? (Or OMG they use firefox on BOTH platforms.) Or that someone who knows how to use the zsh shell will be incapable of getting up to speed with an ugly-ass GUI?
Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? If the computer-illiterates around me can figure out Windows and get their work done (and they do!), then I'm pretty sure that someone who understands how to use *nix should be able to get up to speed.
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
This statement strikes me as funny for two reasons: One it assumes that the student is going to be using the same OS for the duration of his career from say middle school to graduating from college, which is ridiculous. I had my first computer experience on a Commodore 64, then moved to Windows shortly thereafter, but it was an assortment of different flavors from Win95 to XP and several different flavors of Linux in between. IMHO, the main differences between OSes lies in how they operate underneath the UI interface, which most kids will not get into in middle school, and the applications which can be installed. Most of the apps used in school systems can easily be replaced with the equivalent apps that are found in most Linux distros and have similiar sequences of actions to activate an event. I don't think that switching from OpenOffice.Org to M$ Word will be all that traumatizing to a kid.
Secondly, it's assuming that the kids will only be interacting with computers at school, which for the general population is not the case. And for the general population. the OS of choice at home tends to be a flavor of the Windows OS.
In short, it seems like it would be a great idea to introduce Linux in the school system. If nothing else, it will show kids to not be afraid of switching to a different OS b/c they don't know where the button to do such-and-such is at (seriously, that is the only reason why I my roommate doesn't like Linux and makes me boot into Windows when he wants to surf the internet)Give Windows another 5 years or so and it will be ready for the desktop.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
In my day-to-day working environment, we use Linux on diskless workstations. We can deliver either a Windows desktop or a Linux desktop to the user, simply changing one line in a file. (The Windows desktop is provided by using rdesktop to login into Windows Terminal Server. The Windows machine itself is a virtual server running on the free VMWARE server. The VMWARE server runs on top of Slackware Linux.)
I can see a scenario where a teacher can set up an entire classroom of diskless workstations simply by using a webform to select which environment she or he wants for the particular class. Since all configuration is done at the server, there is no need to go around to each individual workstation to install software/do upgrades etc. All software maintenance/configuration is done at the server.
The only maintenance is of the server and the network infrastructure, not the individual workstations. And a lot of the work is already done for you by the LTSP, which has a special interest in education. It's really amazing that teachers are not aware of the wonderful work which has been done in this area.
I remember being part of a group that got the LTSP project up and working without even reading the documentation one afternoon.
The thing is that Linux offers the ability to do so much more for much less cost. And yes, there is a cost in training but that is true of ALL software. And the training cost is offset by the reduced maintenance cost.
In addition, using a diskless workstation environment places control over the desktop in the hands of the system administrator, not in the hands of some virus writer.
If diskless workstations won't cut it, you can try LiveCDs which can be customised to suit the exact needs of the educator. Try SLAX which is easily modified. The great benefit of LiveCDs is that the educator can give them out to the students. Think of having the entire course on a LiveCD which the student can take home and use for homework.
I think people don't realise the incredible potential of Linux in education. Their previous experience with Windows, has them so shell-shocked that the mere idea of change is overwhelming. It's true that Linux has not yet been fine-tuned to meet all expectations. But with good will and elbow grease, that will change.