I disagree with the reviewer, I thought this book was great. I was participating on a week long mobile app hackathon in Brazil and this book helped me understand Enyo a lot better. The title says it all, it is a book to get you up and running and thats how I was after reading it all in a single day. My application ended up wining the third place in this contest against 22 teams (and I worked alone) and I was only able to finish it in time because of some base knowledge I got from this book. Yes there are topics that I wished the author had talked more about such as g11n module but in the end of the book I knew enough Enyo to dig the API reference at the site and discover things by myself.
I don't think the reviewer understood the main idea about the book, this is not a bible book or a complete library reference, this is the minimum amount of pages and knowledge to get you started building your own stuff.
In the end I had a great experience reading this and it helped me won a big prize on that contest so it was more than worth every penny. I think this is the best introduction to Enyo 2 available right now.
That is a good case and we can agree that in 1908 the thing could maneuver well. Now, go ask joe six pack who invented the first airplane and guess what will his answer be.
The Flyer was a capable glider, but still, claiming it as first airplane as the most americans do is silly. Heck Santos Dummont even won the prize for making the first dirigible that could be actually controlled, which he took to circle the eiffel tower, still we don't claim he invented the dirigibles.
If the americans claimed that "hey, wright brothers invented the first glider that could do figures of eight", that would be fine and an achivement, what pisses us off is that people claim they invented the frecking airplane!!!
well... can they take off on their own given enough distance? They are only chucked off because the air craft carrier is not long enough for them to achieve the speed they need, they can take off fine from an airstrip, so they are airplanes that don't require catapults... now, put wright brothers "the flyer" on a airstrip with no wind and tell it to take off, it won't happen.
By the way, the 1903 flight of wright brothers was contested by one of the witnessess, the telegraph operator said that on that day the plane only glided and their patent shows their plane to contain no motor, so without motors, can it take off? NO! it is a gliding plane, good for soaring, not an airplane since it can't take off, fly and land on it's own. Now, the 14-bis could take off, fly and land on its own two years before the wrigt brothers perfected their plane.
Before complaining, use some common sense, those fighters launched with catapults from aircraft carriers are full aircrafts that don't require that gizmo. The flyer is just a glider.
americans think they need to invent everything... I feel sad for them.
santos dummont flied the first plane... not the americans... calling the flyer from wright brothers the first plane when it required a machine to aid it's launch is bad, it's like claiming you build the first car but it worked only on a downhill road. 14-Bis airplane could launch on its own but since was invented by a Brazillian, it is not credited...
Yes the Flyer could fly for a longer period, but it is as if I made a paper plane and use my hand to throw it, heck, it is a soaring plane or something, yes it can fly but what is more of an accomplishment the paper plane that fly longer when thrown by a human hand or the paper plane that can take off on it's own, that was the hard part! Eventually the wright brothers figured out how to make the Flyer take off on it's own but this was after Santos Dummont show on Paris.
So we were there first! Not to mention santos dummont airships and shower gizmos which were also cool
I haven't posted the article here, and trolls are those who express opinions without ever knowing anything about the subject. By the way, I haven't said anything about 90% less code.
Have you tried the product? Did you understand how to use it? Did you give it a fair trial? If don't then keep your opinions fair like "Hey, I doubt this true but I haven't tried."
Internet forums like slashdot are full of experts in subjects they didn't knew about 5 minutes before checking TFS. Now tell me, did you try the damn language? Did you ever used some xTalk language (hypercard, metacard, supercard, omo, rev)? If you did not and you claim anything is phony then you're being trollish, also, posting anon doesn't help to keep a nice civilized discussion.
Now, if you want to have a good talk, at least I am here to shed some clue to this environment that most here never heard of. Just ask and I will try my best to answer, and maybe you'll have a better knowledge base to evaluate and form opinions, even if negative.
I see many people here complaining about this language without even trying to understand it, most people here never ever used this, so how can they complain? I've been using Rev for about 5 or 6 years now, I run a single person consulting business here and I've delivered web applications, desktop applications for mac, windows and linux for many US Universities and foreign universities among other serious clients. I've done it all in Rev without ever reverting to an external (this is what we call C modules), I am able to do all my network, RDBMS, logic and gui needs in Rev alone and deliver native applications to the big three OSes out there (mac, win and linux), now with RevServer (our PHP like engine), I am also able to reuse the same business code in a webapp.
Revolution represents a hug advantage for me because I can really code faster in it, I am not pulling magic numbers from a hat here, I am saying from personal hands on experience for at least 5 years. Before Rev I've coded in C, DELPHI, VB, REBOL, RealBASIC and Scheme (could never deliver a scheme app). My code is as fast any other but was developed faster and cheaper for me, so it means that I can develop more software for less, which is great for someone in the consulting business. Let me summarize what I think are the great Rev strenghts:
The english like syntax is great, at first I found it too verbose but it grew on me. It is a great feature for those that are just comming into programming, for the seasoned coder, I think it is an acquired taste. We all can code with dot notations, OOP stuff, we are confortable with cryptic syntax such as i++; with all our tokens and semicolons but I regard those like stocolm syndrome, we've used hostile syntax for so long that now we think that if it is human readable and clear then it is bad for some esoteric reason that we can't really explain. This whole discussion about what code is bigger is actually irrelevant, the discussion should be what code is easier to write and maintain. Rev code is actually pleasant. I'd take something like "put char -1 of word 2 of line 5 of field "name" into mySweetVariable" over any split and dot notation or regex thing.
In Rev we avoid the write-compile-debug loop. With environments such as VB and Delphi, your standard workflow would be to code a little, build your application launch it attached to a debugger and check for bugs. This is tedious and time consuming. In Rev, like those graphic programs such as photoshop, we have a pointer tool that can be in interact mode or edit mode, if it is in interact mode you can click around your application just like a user using it, the edit mode you use to select controls to change properties or script, so with a flick of the mouse, not compilation needed, I can try my app from inside the environment. This is huge! It is like a lisp REPL or some other interactive mode in other languages but graphical, try as you build and yes, we have a debugger that works with those tools, we often just build standalones by the end of development process after all is tested. I can't stress how faster this make you code, you can experiment much more in interactive environments such as Rev than you would do if you're coding in C.
Another very important feature is the ability to deploy on Linux, Mac, Windows from the same code with no modification, it just builds standalones for all those systems. Imagine you're a VB developer or a C developer, you code mostly on windows for example, then a prospective client quotes for a simple macintosh desktop application, with VB you're simply lost, with C there's a whole lot of new APIs to learn if you don't use a cross platform GUI toolkit. With Rev, you just code normally and in the end checks the "build for Mac OS". (before the pedantry, you should have a mac and mac os knowledge before trying to deliver professional apps for that platform, but you get the idea.). Now with RevServer we can write webapps (we could before but was harder) and with RevWeb plugin we'll be able
I am on Brasil, South America in what americans would consider cute ocean place with no civilization and yet my sheevaplug arrived fine.
It's running jaunty and had no problem with NAND whatsoever. So far it's a torrent download machine but I plan to build something better out of it.
I am planning to buy more...
I know most here would find the XO journal very limiting but in my experience it's a nice way of working for not savvy users.
basically it stores entries like which application, which filename at which time. For example Yesterday you used application "Write" to write such and such file. You can filter it and it's very straight forward. The save and open dialogs are wired into it and it's fairly easy to find stuff.
Or we could have something like BeOS/Haiku BFS full of metadata and a nice tracker.
I think the best way is by using a robotics kit such as LEGO Mindstorms. If the kid is son of a geek then he probably already know LEGO blocks. Now, IMHO, new coders need to see physical results of their labor to be hooked, if they code a little line following robot and the thing comes alive, BOOM, they will be hooked. They will move quickly from LABView thingy to NQC and soon they will be very good coders.
When we were young and all we had was a text interface with the computer, it was way faster to learn and code useful stuff. These days of ubiquitous network, fancy 3D graphics and bad operating systems, it's no wonder kids don't code anymore, look at the learning curve!!!! now, if you make coding a small thing again, with a pleasant learning curve and results they can show to people in awe such as little robots, you have a recipe for success.
my 2 cents
There's also Runtime Revolution which is cross plataform, has access to sql databases, advanced networking and imports hypercard stacks.
The Revolution Media version is way cheaper that $179. You can develop your stacks and run them in Macs, Linux and Windows.
For all those that loved HyperCard, I think that Runtime Revolution is what they've been waiting.
The web site is http://www.runrev.com/
now tell that to the 50 years old owner of a production house that you want to apply for internship...
OWNER: "Can you do pagemaker?"
YOU: "No, I can't... I am skilled in F/OSS software such as scribus, not only it is maturing nicely and I've seen some panplets made with it, but also makes my karma shinier."
OWNER: "So, you can't do pagemaker?"
YOU: "As I said, pagemaker is no excuse, I can use scribus, I don't care if pagemaker has a 10 years old expert team building it, I want to use F/OSS..."
OWNER: "So, you can't?"
YOU: "Free software will free your soul!!!"
OWNER: "okay, good luck for you, next candidate please..."
Here in my university in Brazil, they moved all the computers to linux (fedora) and guess what, it is destroying our capacity. We're a journalism and film school, now, how can our students be eligible to internships if they don't have Adobe Pagemaker, Adobe InDesign, Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro to learn? I really like the GIMP, OO and other F/OSS initiatives, I have linux at home in one of my machines but no way the students will be able to do state-of-the-art desktop publishing and film editing using linux, that was a bad idea from the start and it's reflecting now, the last film festival promoted by our city (actually by our university) had not a single movie made by us!!! Linux simply killed our capacity to produce here...
I'd exchange it anytime for Mac OS or Windows for doing DTP and film.
Ward talks about how he used hypercard to create his first draft of the wiki... hypercard was very easy to use and its sad to notice how apple failed to notice its potential. For those wanting to try a new hypercard-like environment with all the bells and whistles we come to take as granted such as network support, rdbms support, multimedia, point your browsers to Runtime Revolution http://www.runrev.com/> a wonderful tool. It's also cross platfrom, write your stacks once, build to win32, macs, linux, freebsd, solaris.
PS: actually I coded a simple wiki in rev in about 30 lines. And it is graphical!:-)
Cheers folks
you can do it much faster with the following setup:
1) Laptop with Wifi card.
2) launch paris hilton.torrent
3) put the egg near the wifi antena...
in seconds there will be blue rays of tcp/ip flying from your wifi setup and they will cook the egg and also put salt.
not being a troll but remember "if it's not broken, don't fix it"? Objective-C and the Cocoa Frameworks are an amazing combo, very productive to code using it. I don't think there's much to add. It's not bloated like VisualStudio.NET, it's easy to grasp and understand, code is small... well, I just like the way it is, and XCode is a lot better than Project Builder so I think we're on a nice path, I don't want to see Apple reinventing its development environment every couple years...
Slashdot Mirror
At least the people from Mozilla is trying to get their APIs approved by W3C and spread to other vendors. Check out https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI
I disagree with the reviewer, I thought this book was great. I was participating on a week long mobile app hackathon in Brazil and this book helped me understand Enyo a lot better. The title says it all, it is a book to get you up and running and thats how I was after reading it all in a single day. My application ended up wining the third place in this contest against 22 teams (and I worked alone) and I was only able to finish it in time because of some base knowledge I got from this book. Yes there are topics that I wished the author had talked more about such as g11n module but in the end of the book I knew enough Enyo to dig the API reference at the site and discover things by myself.
I don't think the reviewer understood the main idea about the book, this is not a bible book or a complete library reference, this is the minimum amount of pages and knowledge to get you started building your own stuff.
In the end I had a great experience reading this and it helped me won a big prize on that contest so it was more than worth every penny. I think this is the best introduction to Enyo 2 available right now.
That is a good case and we can agree that in 1908 the thing could maneuver well. Now, go ask joe six pack who invented the first airplane and guess what will his answer be.
The Flyer was a capable glider, but still, claiming it as first airplane as the most americans do is silly. Heck Santos Dummont even won the prize for making the first dirigible that could be actually controlled, which he took to circle the eiffel tower, still we don't claim he invented the dirigibles.
If the americans claimed that "hey, wright brothers invented the first glider that could do figures of eight", that would be fine and an achivement, what pisses us off is that people claim they invented the frecking airplane!!!
well... can they take off on their own given enough distance? They are only chucked off because the air craft carrier is not long enough for them to achieve the speed they need, they can take off fine from an airstrip, so they are airplanes that don't require catapults... now, put wright brothers "the flyer" on a airstrip with no wind and tell it to take off, it won't happen.
By the way, the 1903 flight of wright brothers was contested by one of the witnessess, the telegraph operator said that on that day the plane only glided and their patent shows their plane to contain no motor, so without motors, can it take off? NO! it is a gliding plane, good for soaring, not an airplane since it can't take off, fly and land on it's own. Now, the 14-bis could take off, fly and land on its own two years before the wrigt brothers perfected their plane.
Before complaining, use some common sense, those fighters launched with catapults from aircraft carriers are full aircrafts that don't require that gizmo. The flyer is just a glider.
americans think they need to invent everything... I feel sad for them.
santos dummont flied the first plane... not the americans... calling the flyer from wright brothers the first plane when it required a machine to aid it's launch is bad, it's like claiming you build the first car but it worked only on a downhill road. 14-Bis airplane could launch on its own but since was invented by a Brazillian, it is not credited... Yes the Flyer could fly for a longer period, but it is as if I made a paper plane and use my hand to throw it, heck, it is a soaring plane or something, yes it can fly but what is more of an accomplishment the paper plane that fly longer when thrown by a human hand or the paper plane that can take off on it's own, that was the hard part! Eventually the wright brothers figured out how to make the Flyer take off on it's own but this was after Santos Dummont show on Paris. So we were there first! Not to mention santos dummont airships and shower gizmos which were also cool
I haven't posted the article here, and trolls are those who express opinions without ever knowing anything about the subject. By the way, I haven't said anything about 90% less code.
Have you tried the product? Did you understand how to use it? Did you give it a fair trial? If don't then keep your opinions fair like "Hey, I doubt this true but I haven't tried."
Internet forums like slashdot are full of experts in subjects they didn't knew about 5 minutes before checking TFS. Now tell me, did you try the damn language? Did you ever used some xTalk language (hypercard, metacard, supercard, omo, rev)? If you did not and you claim anything is phony then you're being trollish, also, posting anon doesn't help to keep a nice civilized discussion.
Now, if you want to have a good talk, at least I am here to shed some clue to this environment that most here never heard of. Just ask and I will try my best to answer, and maybe you'll have a better knowledge base to evaluate and form opinions, even if negative.
Hi Folks,
I see many people here complaining about this language without even trying to understand it, most people here never ever used this, so how can they complain? I've been using Rev for about 5 or 6 years now, I run a single person consulting business here and I've delivered web applications, desktop applications for mac, windows and linux for many US Universities and foreign universities among other serious clients. I've done it all in Rev without ever reverting to an external (this is what we call C modules), I am able to do all my network, RDBMS, logic and gui needs in Rev alone and deliver native applications to the big three OSes out there (mac, win and linux), now with RevServer (our PHP like engine), I am also able to reuse the same business code in a webapp.
Revolution represents a hug advantage for me because I can really code faster in it, I am not pulling magic numbers from a hat here, I am saying from personal hands on experience for at least 5 years. Before Rev I've coded in C, DELPHI, VB, REBOL, RealBASIC and Scheme (could never deliver a scheme app). My code is as fast any other but was developed faster and cheaper for me, so it means that I can develop more software for less, which is great for someone in the consulting business. Let me summarize what I think are the great Rev strenghts:
The english like syntax is great, at first I found it too verbose but it grew on me. It is a great feature for those that are just comming into programming, for the seasoned coder, I think it is an acquired taste. We all can code with dot notations, OOP stuff, we are confortable with cryptic syntax such as i++; with all our tokens and semicolons but I regard those like stocolm syndrome, we've used hostile syntax for so long that now we think that if it is human readable and clear then it is bad for some esoteric reason that we can't really explain. This whole discussion about what code is bigger is actually irrelevant, the discussion should be what code is easier to write and maintain. Rev code is actually pleasant. I'd take something like "put char -1 of word 2 of line 5 of field "name" into mySweetVariable" over any split and dot notation or regex thing.
In Rev we avoid the write-compile-debug loop. With environments such as VB and Delphi, your standard workflow would be to code a little, build your application launch it attached to a debugger and check for bugs. This is tedious and time consuming. In Rev, like those graphic programs such as photoshop, we have a pointer tool that can be in interact mode or edit mode, if it is in interact mode you can click around your application just like a user using it, the edit mode you use to select controls to change properties or script, so with a flick of the mouse, not compilation needed, I can try my app from inside the environment. This is huge! It is like a lisp REPL or some other interactive mode in other languages but graphical, try as you build and yes, we have a debugger that works with those tools, we often just build standalones by the end of development process after all is tested. I can't stress how faster this make you code, you can experiment much more in interactive environments such as Rev than you would do if you're coding in C.
Another very important feature is the ability to deploy on Linux, Mac, Windows from the same code with no modification, it just builds standalones for all those systems. Imagine you're a VB developer or a C developer, you code mostly on windows for example, then a prospective client quotes for a simple macintosh desktop application, with VB you're simply lost, with C there's a whole lot of new APIs to learn if you don't use a cross platform GUI toolkit. With Rev, you just code normally and in the end checks the "build for Mac OS". (before the pedantry, you should have a mac and mac os knowledge before trying to deliver professional apps for that platform, but you get the idea.). Now with RevServer we can write webapps (we could before but was harder) and with RevWeb plugin we'll be able
so I infer that in Ant School they learn to count and when they become workers/warriors/whatever they start doing it at an unconscious level....
I am on Brasil, South America in what americans would consider cute ocean place with no civilization and yet my sheevaplug arrived fine. It's running jaunty and had no problem with NAND whatsoever. So far it's a torrent download machine but I plan to build something better out of it. I am planning to buy more...
I label you causality-nazi!!!!
You go typing: "I 3 you" and norton pops up... the horror, the horror...
Can we get godwyn achievement if I compare you all with nazis or something like that?
You see yourself in digg.com. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I know most here would find the XO journal very limiting but in my experience it's a nice way of working for not savvy users. basically it stores entries like which application, which filename at which time. For example Yesterday you used application "Write" to write such and such file. You can filter it and it's very straight forward. The save and open dialogs are wired into it and it's fairly easy to find stuff. Or we could have something like BeOS/Haiku BFS full of metadata and a nice tracker.
they will be the first country to actually an astrounaut in poland or wherever their rocket falls before reaching orbit.
I think the best way is by using a robotics kit such as LEGO Mindstorms. If the kid is son of a geek then he probably already know LEGO blocks. Now, IMHO, new coders need to see physical results of their labor to be hooked, if they code a little line following robot and the thing comes alive, BOOM, they will be hooked. They will move quickly from LABView thingy to NQC and soon they will be very good coders. When we were young and all we had was a text interface with the computer, it was way faster to learn and code useful stuff. These days of ubiquitous network, fancy 3D graphics and bad operating systems, it's no wonder kids don't code anymore, look at the learning curve!!!! now, if you make coding a small thing again, with a pleasant learning curve and results they can show to people in awe such as little robots, you have a recipe for success. my 2 cents
bachelor of brazil? much more fun...
There's also Runtime Revolution which is cross plataform, has access to sql databases, advanced networking and imports hypercard stacks. The Revolution Media version is way cheaper that $179. You can develop your stacks and run them in Macs, Linux and Windows. For all those that loved HyperCard, I think that Runtime Revolution is what they've been waiting. The web site is http://www.runrev.com/
now tell that to the 50 years old owner of a production house that you want to apply for internship... OWNER: "Can you do pagemaker?" YOU: "No, I can't... I am skilled in F/OSS software such as scribus, not only it is maturing nicely and I've seen some panplets made with it, but also makes my karma shinier." OWNER: "So, you can't do pagemaker?" YOU: "As I said, pagemaker is no excuse, I can use scribus, I don't care if pagemaker has a 10 years old expert team building it, I want to use F/OSS..." OWNER: "So, you can't?" YOU: "Free software will free your soul!!!" OWNER: "okay, good luck for you, next candidate please..."
Here in my university in Brazil, they moved all the computers to linux (fedora) and guess what, it is destroying our capacity. We're a journalism and film school, now, how can our students be eligible to internships if they don't have Adobe Pagemaker, Adobe InDesign, Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro to learn? I really like the GIMP, OO and other F/OSS initiatives, I have linux at home in one of my machines but no way the students will be able to do state-of-the-art desktop publishing and film editing using linux, that was a bad idea from the start and it's reflecting now, the last film festival promoted by our city (actually by our university) had not a single movie made by us!!! Linux simply killed our capacity to produce here...
I'd exchange it anytime for Mac OS or Windows for doing DTP and film.
Ward talks about how he used hypercard to create his first draft of the wiki... hypercard was very easy to use and its sad to notice how apple failed to notice its potential. For those wanting to try a new hypercard-like environment with all the bells and whistles we come to take as granted such as network support, rdbms support, multimedia, point your browsers to Runtime Revolution http://www.runrev.com/> a wonderful tool. It's also cross platfrom, write your stacks once, build to win32, macs, linux, freebsd, solaris. PS: actually I coded a simple wiki in rev in about 30 lines. And it is graphical! :-)
Cheers folks
in humorless germany, the os turd you?!
gives a whole new meaning to "this laptop is burning my legs..." sorry could not resist...
you can do it much faster with the following setup: 1) Laptop with Wifi card. 2) launch paris hilton.torrent 3) put the egg near the wifi antena... in seconds there will be blue rays of tcp/ip flying from your wifi setup and they will cook the egg and also put salt.
not being a troll but remember "if it's not broken, don't fix it"? Objective-C and the Cocoa Frameworks are an amazing combo, very productive to code using it. I don't think there's much to add. It's not bloated like VisualStudio.NET, it's easy to grasp and understand, code is small... well, I just like the way it is, and XCode is a lot better than Project Builder so I think we're on a nice path, I don't want to see Apple reinventing its development environment every couple years...