Slashdot Mirror
EMI Experiments With DRM-free MP3's
trifster writes "Ars Technica has an article about EMI selling DRM-free MP3's through Yahoo Music's US online store. It should be noted that this trial is an attempt to increase sales and competition with online music that is not necessarilary available on iTunes."
From the article:
"Why the sudden interest in non-DRMed formats? It appears that the record labels are slowly beginning to realize that they can't have DRMed music and complete control over the online music market at the same time....
There are signs that consumers might be growing irritated by the Balkanization of the online music scene. Nielsen SoundScan reports that online music sales dropped during the second and third quarters of the year."
So I can get 3 songs from artists I would pay not to hear without DRM.
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I've been "experimenting" with DRM-free MP3s for years...
DRM-free is just a marketing stunt, its the latest version of playsForSure.
Psych!
...for finally figuring out that controlling, say, 30% of a market with 50% piracy is better than controlling 2% of a market with 10% piracy.
Err, my uncle does. not sure of any other people. I'm a Christian, but most Christian music is admittedly awful! There are a couple of okay Christian bands, I haven't heard these guys. One of Snow Patrols last few singles played a lot like a Christian worship song, I was surprised it ranked anywhere in the charts.. so boring musically, but that's pop music for you..
:p
Never seen 'Xian' used before, I thought it was some kind of oriental thing
which is totally what she said
"Selling a couple xian tunes w/o drm isn't going to exactly cause a wave of common sense to break out. Does anyone actually listen to this crap?"
Norah Jones has had a couple of multi-platinum albums in the past five years. She's a bona fide star. Relient K are one of those "crossover" Christian bands that have managed to release three consecutive gold albums. By the way, I found this data with about two minutes of Googling.
Per Ars Technica, these artists were picked because their audience skews older. P2P usage skews younger. The Slashdot demographic is also younger, so most people reading this see the world as one where everybody uses P2P to get their music and nobody listens to lame artists like Norah Jones, but EMI is apparently looking at the big picture.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
Honestly, if the sheep would stop buying crippled music, the crippled-music industry would die in less than 10 days. baa baa
Stop buying CDs altogether and the **AA suing everyone's grandmother would die in less than 30 days. baa baa
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
Could we get more data on that? Is iTunes also falling or are the WMA based (napster et. al) skewing the statistics in general? Also how about emusic and allofmp3.com?
"It should be noted that this trial is an attempt to increase sales and competition with online music that is not necessarilary available on iTunes."
I don't get how the OP infered that statement from the article. Both of the songs cited in the article (A single from Norah Jones and two tracks from Reliant K) should be on iTunes. Apple has an agreement with EMI, just as Yahoo Music/Musicnet has an agreement with EMI.
eMusic on the other hand, representing a much larger percentage of the independent labels out there, has a selection of music that can't be found on iTunes.
The troll with karma.
Does anyone know if Christian music lovers are in the demographic of illegal file downloaders?
Christians are supposed to be honest and pay for stuff anyway, right? Just how big a risk is this little online venture?
If these files start showing up on P2P lists, what does that say about us all?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Wake up RIAA and realize that the price of music drives piracy. People will always have an incentive to crack DRM if they can't get the music for a fair price legally. I imagine the music industry is scared to death of sliding music prices, even though that's where it's going to head eventually. There is some point between "overpriced" and "free" at which both consumers and most artists will be happy. Those artists who expect to become millionaires from a popular record (and who don't tour), are going to be sorely disappointed. Those artists who are happy making a decent living, and who actually produce good music, will prosper.
They're doing exactly the same thing they did with DRM on CDs; they're releasing them in very limited quantities so they can guage the public reaction.
This is a big deal. It's not big because the numbers are big, but because they're actually looking at the format at all. At one point (yesterday?) we were forced to use quasi-legal tools and we were treated like criminals if we wanted to have cross-platform music. Now at least there's hope.
My suggestion is run, don't walk, to your computer and buy these tracks, even if you hate the artists involved. The music industry is quite predictible in that they always seem to go in the direction that they think will make them more money. We want to encourage this behavior.
TW
This is neither FUD nor BS!
I want my favorite editor back. Go and wake up that lazy Zonk and make him serve us our daily dose of "journalism".
Thanks!
People want to do what they want with the things they own, period. Companies should not be deceiving consumers by giving the illusion of ownership when they purchase a song. Instead they should be prompted warned that buying said song from said service will result in the following restrictions. Well maybe they are better off telling them they are not allowed to do anything with the song besides X and X, just to save time and space :)
If the DRM was explained and the restrictions spelled out, as they should be, sales on iTunes and other services would begin to fall as soon as any alternative that allows people to do what they want with the songs comes out. Of course, seasoned digital music consumers have found an alternative already, but no money is being made off that yet... If no alternatives are allowed to hit the market then the average user, as they become more knowledgeable about the issue, will result to the same methods.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
IT'S A TRAP!
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
DRM free..? Well, okay... I'm listening (so to speak). But if the quality isn't 192kps and up then I'm not interested.
Personally I'd rather see a "more legal" version of allofmp3.com... Choice of format, bitrate, etc? Yes, please. I'd be very happy to part with my hard earned cash in that case.
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
Like, I'm so touched. Thank you EMI! No really, that's so amazing. It more than makes up for the destruction of countless peoples lives and the endless misery you have caused! Way to go!
I don't know about your musical tastes, but my local listenable station plays Relient K right along with all their other stuff. It's somewhat surreal to have a juxtaposition of Christan music, emo-alternative-rock, and songs missing half the lyrics due to FCC rules.
(It's a non-Clear-Channel "new rock" station -- alternativish, but toward the rock end, but not so far toward rock as to need the "big stupid idiot guy who acts like he's Howard Stern on a drug cocktail" DJ. Where did the "boorish dolt guy" meme come from, and can we Gitmo that exec?)
I buy all of my online music from apple. I installed it after the airlines started to give away 10 free songs with every ticket. I burn it to a cd and then rip it for my zen.
Oriental \O`ri*en"tal\, n. 1. A native or inhabitant of the Orient or some Eastern part of the world; an Asiatic. [1913 Webster]
Just because someone may prefer one name over another doesn't negate the definition.
I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
This one will bite the dust as soon as the other cartel members get wind of it.
y
This is the same cartel convicted of fixing the price of CD's. This is the same cartel has the ability to maintain an artificially high $10-$18 per new CD. Look at the demise of allofmp3.com. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllOfMP3.com_legalit
The money to be made by eliminating your right to first sale is too powerful.
Balkanization of media download services clearly benefits the media cartels.
Consider this story another sad footnote in the history of your rights being taken away.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
OK. I am willing to spend $0.99 on a DRM free song by Norah Jones just to "cast my vote" that I am willing to buy DRM-free music. Could someone please tell me which song it is? I can't seem to find that information anywhere.
See my blog at Who's Who
Well I like some Christian music, but there is very little good Christian rock, and I've never heard any that could be classified as progressive rock. Nor have I heard any Christian jazz. So, if I don't buy, does this mean that EMI will mark it down as a failure? Try offering some rock and some jazz, EMI, in either OGG or 320kbps+ MP3 format, then I'll buy.
How many MP3s do they expect to sell from that offering - 100 tracks worldwide? I think their selected offering is a maneuver to "prove" that DRM-free music sales from the labels won't work.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
"Does anyone actually listen to this crap?"
:)
What about Creed? Personally, I think they are a shite band, but their millions of fans who didn't realize that they were a Xtian rock band seemed to like them...
BTW...whatever happened to Stryper?
The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with somebody else's life. -FZ
Well, despite your clinging to, ehmm, 93 year old definitions, here's a fun usage note from The American Heritage Dictionary (printed in the year 2000, no less):
Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental meaning "eastern"is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive.
Never seen 'Xian' used before
Heh. I used that as a note-taking shortcut throughout Bible school. It's not common, but it is used."Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Is this perhaps because of the surge in online music purchases that will follow millions of people around the world getting music players for Christmas? It seems that 1st quarter sales would be higher for this reason.
Did CD sales have a similar trend in the 90s when they were still becoming dominant?
I don't think this story is really very much about the record industry starting to recognize consumer frustration and so on. They simply want to distribute digital music through channels other than iTMS and still maintain access to the iPod market, which is enormous. This is the sensible explanation put forth by the WSJ (although they speculate consumer demand is a driver as well): In a Turnabout, Record Industry Releases MP3s
From the article: Blue Note and other music companies are beginning to think they will have to sell some MP3-formatted music both to satisfy customer demand and to provide access to Apple Computer Inc.'s iPod for songs that are sold by online stores other than Apple's iTunes Store.
Fast food, apparel, cars, music.. regardless of the product; Build a good product, people buy the product.
Build a bad product and, no matter how you cripple your product, no matter how many Weasels in Suits(tm) you hire to sue the consumers of your product, no matter how much you spend in popular media to use the Goebbels Big Lie technique for re-defining words like "steal" to then morally brow beat people into buying your product, the bottom line is still: you built a bad product. People will not buy a bad product.
- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
This is PR crap, and Yahoo along with EMI don't deserve the light of day for exposure about this stunt.
I went to the yahoo music web site, and nowhere on "page one" is there a hint about selling mp3s.
So, yahoo and EMI skate by getting a publicity tour out of this while not even really brushing up against what non-DRM music is all about? (I remember the last unencumbered debacle, they were selling a Jessica Simpson track, and they would customized the track to put your name in the song.... Sheesh)
I really wish these people would go away with their stunts or be ignored (I know, I'm not ignoring, huh?).
And so Buddhism or Tai Chi, or a type of music will always be 'asian' rather than 'oriental'? I wasn't referring to a person. And I've been reading The Bourne Supremacy recently, and it's pretty old, so maybe I'm using outdated terminology *shrug*
which is totally what she said
http://www.Zunior.com
I'm not affiliated, other than being a very happy customer.
STFU about slashdot bias.
My suggestion is run, don't walk, to your computer and buy these tracks,
Exactly what I was planning to do... Not at home right now, but I'll do it as soon as I'm there. The only thing that is not clear is, if it's also available to Europeans. iTunes didn't accept European credit cards in the beginning either.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Well, we know how that one ended.
This a trial balloon, and a very big deal."Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
??? The "X" stands for Christ. It comes from the Greek letter Xi. If you see some churches, there is a Xi and a Rho in stained glass along with a picture of Jesus, since the Xi and Rho are the first two letters in Christ (in Greek, of course). As to the person who responded to you saying that only rugs are oriental: "Oriental" is opposed to "Occidential", or basically anything that is not Western. "Asian" is simply more specific since "Oriental" can denote not only Asians, but Indians (the real ones, not Native Americans), and the various Middle Eastern peoples. I'm not really sure why "Oriental" became so un-PC. Perhaps it has to do with ignorant people's usage of it to denote Asians? I don't know.
Similar to the upcoming US election results
There are signs that consumers might be growing irritated by the Balkanization of the online music scene. Nielsen SoundScan reports that online music sales dropped during the second and third quarters of the year.
... oooops, perhaps I've just hit the nail on the head there, the anti-Apple folks need something to predict for the next 20 years. :-)
This bit of misinformation has been getting around lately, actually they claimed the same thing last year. Perhaps they're hoping that if they say it enough it will become true? (Paging Godwin)
Look 4Q is always the highest, think Thanksgiving and Christmas... followed by 1Q, think people using their iTunes gift cards or trying out the iTunes Store now that hey have a new iPod. I'm sure practically every consumer goods business has a similar sales graph where things drop off after Xmas. It's just interesting to me that analysts are using this to predict the death of the iPod
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
As I said before, I've been reading the Bourne Supremacy, I think it was written in the 70s, and it references Singapore and China quite regularly. I didn't mean it to be offensive, and I don't see what's wrong with the word oriental, it does sound cooler than Asian, and is less gneric.. Asian to me conjures up a different imagine than oriental, but neither is derogatory. I would have thought Oriental was a word more centred on China than Asia in general. And Xian seems to me like a Chinese word.
which is totally what she said
DRM-free maybe, but still not patent-free. When they distribute them in a truely free format then I'll definitely be interested and will be willing to pay for that freedom. If it's not free then why should I pay for it? But even though it is still not free enough for me, it is a very good sign that perhaps some lone sole in the industry is having an ah-ha moment.
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! [runs quickly out, slamming door behind]
[unlocks door, comes back in jabbing pointy stick] [sits shakingly back down at computer]
ahem, sorry. I believe God smote them.
Similar to the upcoming US election results
You sell me the MP3.
You record that you sold a license to me.
If I need it again in the future, you will allow me to get another copy of it for a nominal charge such as 10% of the original purchase price. This will be reasonably limited to one replacement copy per year. However, if I'm brought up on charges and have a copy of that version of the song in my possession, the license cover it and protect me from prosecution. I am not authorized to offer the song for upload but I can transfer my license to another person by paying you a reasonable transfer fee.
You may offer me upgraded versions but they will be at a discount reflecting that I already paid you for a license.
You may charge me a reasonable fee ($20 to $30) per year to keep records of and track my licenses.
You charge a reasonable price for the songs. Roughly 20% of minimum wage for new songs and 5% of minimum wage for songs older than 5 years.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Wow, I am simply underwhelmed by the effort, 3 fuggin songs, c'mon! I've always thought that they had a reason other that piracy for DRM, like trying to protect their business models. No self respecting scene group would be caught dead using those releases and for anyone who does want to pirate something, there isn't exactly a dearth of bittorrent links to choose from, not even for flac versions. I've always thought DRM was stupid due to the fact that CDs have easily defeatable DRM making the whole thing utterly pointless, unless of course they are trying to protect an obsolete business model... 3 songs, what a grand expiremint. Seriously, anyone willing to pay for mp3s likely wouldn't copy em, because if they had wanted to, they would have just waited for a crappily encoded(Those mother frackers need to update their copies of lame.exe, btw :/ L.A.M.E. 3.98a7 http://rarewares.org/ FTW) scene release to show up in the waters.
I completely agree. I think everybody should buy this track not because they enjoy listening to Norah Jones, but because they want to show support for DRM-free digital sales. Spread the word: http://www.ghazizadeh.org/shayan/2006/12/buy-norah -jones-to-fight-drm/
It could be that MS did us a favor by abandoning play for sure.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I don't understand the spin they're putting on this. According to the graph in TFA, sales dipped slightly in Q3 of last year, then skyrocketed through Q4-Q1 of this year. Through Q2-3 of this year, sales have stayed steady, but still WELL above last year's sales. If they jump again in Q4 and next year, they're growing at a ridiculous rate. I think the article is bending the numbers just a little bit when they say digital song sales are stalled for the first time since the ITMS launched.
My suggestion is run, don't walk, to your computer and buy these tracks, even if you hate the artists involved.
I would disagree. Not only should these artists not be supported but I have qualms giving my money to companies who promote the RIAA system.
RIAA as a group should be removed. They are the problem. Not just the DRM. They destroy art and ruin independent music.
Maybe I'm just bitter, but if you want to support non-drm music then buy it from non RIAA groups like www.emusic.com
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
As much as I hate the RIAA (and the tracks in question), I'll be buying these tracks and encouraging everyone I know to buy them as well! I'll probably even send an e-mail to Yahoo customer service and to the label as well thanking them. The bottom line is that we need to reward those labels that will release DRM free music to try and send them the message that we want DRM free music. Vote with your dollars on this one. If there is success here they might try it with other tracks.
Same here. "Contemporary Christian", especially, sucks pretty hard IMHO. My mom and aunt love it though.
As for Christian bands, there are some good ones such as Norma Jean, Demon Hunter, and Underoath (a little emo, but still good).
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
India and the Middle East are also in Asia, so Asian is no more specific a term than Oriental.
This was actually answered above you. The reason that it is seen as offensive is because it is defining them in relation to where they are from Europe. Thus, it is the definition of a Eurocentric term for describing someone else. This is one of those things where you wouldn't necessarily see anything wrong with it, but from a cultural standpoint, hopefully you can sort of see why Asians wouldn't specifically like to be called by a name that just defines them relative to their position on the map compared to Europe.
That's weird, I kind of thought of it as Oriental as basically Chinese, maybe with Thailand and Singapore (no, I don't know the geography round that area too well!). Asian would mean more just anyone from anywhere in Asia. I guess if I thought of Samurais I'd consider them 'oriental' even though they're Japanese.. meh, it's not a very well specific word, hence why I used it to describe a word that sounded like it originated in the east somewhere.. I hope I don't sound racist anyway, maybe ignorant. Japan is one of the few places in the world that I think I'd actually like to live in one day - the other one was Canada (even before I started going out with a Canadian girl :D ), and I'm from the UK. Will bear in mind that 'oriental' apparently isn't very PC in american culture. Over here you'd hear it a lot in the names of Chinese/Thai food/restaurants, I wouldn't consider it derogatory at all..
which is totally what she said
They are doing this out of desperation. Now that digital downloads are catching up, they have lost their power over the sales channel. They have to talk to apple as equals and cant impose their tiered pricing schemes to them. They have lost control.
The ipod is more and more entrenched in popular culture every day. They are trying to break apples grip on this market with the zune, but its not working.
So if they cant control the DRM used, they don't want anyone else having this kind of control. They know that the one controlling DRM will be the one controlling all of the market.
When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
Seriously, though, isn't it interesting that it's the Christian bands who are apparently the most forward-thinking about copyright?
Perhaps because they value sharing?
"Remember six years ago when CDs were $20 and online tracks were $3 and hard to come by?"
No, not really. I mean, unless you shopped at Virgin. But I never remember online music selling for $3. Do you have a link or something?
CD prices have remained pretty constant at $13-18 for about 10 years now. I'm sure that makes record company exec nuts.
Do americans mind being called 'westerners'? Do I mind being called a westerner? Not really.. (I do get your point but I think it's taking PC too far - well most 'political correctness' is a load of horsecrap anyway)
Do they use different maps over in 'eastern' countries? I mean the pacific is a pretty good place to cut off a map, being a mostly empty space. The only other thing you could use usefully would be the atlantic, I guess that could put asia in a more central location. If you wanted you could turn the map upside down, but the way north is already defined, it seems a bit pointless. It's just geography. East is no worse than west (well apart from in Germany maybe.. ahem..), and east/west are no worse or better than the 'centre'.
which is totally what she said
Thats because they AREN'T a Christian band. They are a Rock group that sings songs that involve spirituality - and some of them are Christian, so some of what they sing is based on what they know. A better (though not perfect) example of a crossover Christian band is P.O.D. - though they are IIRC members of one of the more unusual Christian sects.
There's far better Christian Rock groups out there. DC Talk's Welcome to the Freakshow (concert album) is amongst the best I've ever listened to.
Arrrrrr.
Yup, most christian rock/pop sucks. But then again most rock/pop sucks. However Reliant K and veggie tales just make me happy.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
Where? On Slashdot? Wow.
The vast majority of Consumers©® don't know what DRM is, don't know how it works, and don't care. They'll keep handing over the cash without thinking about it, no matter what.
For just about every music service out there, 5 minutes on google will show you precisely and easily how to strip the DRM off the music and convert the song into a regular MP3. I pity the people who download lots of music and keep it in the native DRM format (M4A for example).
Just strip the DRM off, convert it into a regular MP3, and be done with it. No biggy for now.
You caught me doing something I particulary despise when I see it in others.
Thanks!
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Today, new CD releases are south of $15 and selection of online music is plentiful at $0.99 and below. Yet this price is still not "fair." For many people, it never will be.
Maybe for some people. But for "many" people, $5 seems to be a good target.
I've made/sold compilation CDs with a bunch of local musicians, almost all of us (with one or two exceptions) with only small followings. The idea was to cross-pollinate our audiences, really, but we were going to do our best to sell as many CDs to whoever would buy them at the summer festival where we were all performing and promoting the discs.
$15? Even the fans of some of the artists on the CD were slow to buy.
$10? Fans were likely to buy, but the average passerby would pretty
$5? They *sold*. Almost all of 'em. Many to people who'd never heard a single artist on the compilation before.
We repeated this experience over a few years. $5 is the magic number. We've been able to sell some discs for more as we acquired a rep, but strangers buy at $5.
I seem to recall an NYC street musician doing a similar experiment and coming up with the same number. Wish I could come up with a link.
As for individual tracks online, I don't have similar experience trying to sell, but as a buyer, I can tell you that at the prices AllOfMP3.com sells at (about $.10-$.15 per track the way I encode), I've found that I don't even think about the cost. If I want to listen to something I don't already have handy, I'll buy it. In some cases, I have even just bought songs I *already own* but don't want to bother looking for the CD. The cost of downloading is practically negligible and it's a very low-hassle experience. I'd probably continue to think that way up to a quarter per track.
This isn't to say I *won't* buy music online at higher prices. I've shopped the iTunes store regularly and have bought a good chunk of music there. I'd probably never buy stuff on a whim there that I've bought at AllOfMP3.com (say, the "Flash Gordon" soundtrack by Queen), but I'm willing to buy some material I really like there, even with the DRM encumbrance, which is a hassle when it comes time to switch systems or share with friends.
Tweet, tweet.
Getting way off topic now...
The trouble with "Asian" is that it's less specific than "Oriental". An Asian could be from Iran, or Siberia, or Kazakhstan, or Korea, or Sri Lanka. "Oriental" means you're from the easternmost part of Asia.
Another thing... "land of the rising sun" is clearly a Sinocentric term, yet the Japanese don't seem to have a problem with it.
It's a good idea to encourage civil behavior in your enemies. Getting a truce and a peace treaty is almost always much cheaper, eisier and almost always gives you a better outcome than spending every last ounce of strength trying to destroy them
TW
Lucifer experiments with Holy Water
I applaud Norah Jones for making the song available on Yahoo.
BTW there are some really nice photos of her on the Yahoo web site.
I have a question, though - If I enjoy thinking on her being impaled on my penis, does it make me a plumper-lover? Some photos of her are quite nice, but the others make her seem a bit chunkety. And I really don't like the one where she is wearing glasses.
Ciao
"You may charge me a reasonable fee ($20 to $30) per year to keep records of and track my licenses"
I'm not paying a subscription. Period, it's just music.
I just want you to sell me the stuff I want for a price I'll tolerate, no different from any other market. Quit all that shit with the 'we'll sort of sell you the right to play it perhaps', quit all that 'you can only play it on devices that support Plays Maybe v2.33'.
What the fuck is there problem? Did they forget salesmanship 101?
This, finally sounds like they're wising up to the market they're missing out on.
I think Howard Stern is already there.
no comment
"Try offering some rock and some jazz, EMI, in either OGG or 320kbps+ MP3 format, then I'll buy."
Good luck trying to sell the public something in OGG format. The majority of the portable players out there do NOT support OGG, this would be is contary to what Yahoo is trying to do (test the effectiveness and demand of selling MP3s versus DRMed WMA).
The troll with karma.
I'm seriously considering buying some of this DRM-free music -- I normally stay away from major labels -- just to help their little experiment be successful. Maybe if this is a success, media companies will at long last make the realisation that DRM only hurts their customers, and thereby their profits. Some artists on major labels are actually good; buy some of this, even if it's just a couple songs.
Don't blame me -- I voted for Roslin.
Certain words keep getting relegated to the ranks of "bad" words despite their accuracy, because some idiots consider it an insult and greater idiots hand the word over and scurry around trying to find a more round about way of saying the same thing. Retarded, cretin, spastic, oriental are examples. It's the same idiocy that has led to absurdities such as 'differently abled' and 'someone of colour.' It offends me because trying to avoid using a word with a correct meaning, is a tacit acceptance that there's something wrong with being that way. For example, I see the accepted descriptions of mentally disabled people change in a sort of five year cycle. Learning disabilities is the current vogue. I hate the way people keep washing their hands of the words. It makes it sound as though we're ashamed of someone.
The smart people reclaim the words. Why do lots of black people use the word nigger to refer themselves? Because there's nothing fucking wrong with it - it means black! Why were lots of gay people proudly using the word poof in the eighties? Because there's nothing fucking wrong with it. They, and lots of other groups, were making a stand saying that they had no problem with the term.
And there's nothing wrong with the word oriental, either. But unfortunately it's been used as an insult and many well-meaning idiots have scurried away from it in horror and tried to find ways to disguise the meaning. Which is even more insulting, to my mind.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Sorry. I'd rather just pay a decent price for a CD and then encode/index/tag/etc the stuff to be used with my computers/sansa as I see fit.
Why is this simple concept so hard for everyone to grasp?
except he's not loading them up in his car. . . let's just say his sphincter was designed by Hummer.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
So, yeah, I searched Yahoo's site, and pretty much think the article is wrong. Yahoo Music is not selling this track as an MP3 (alternatively, their peanut butter may be spread so thin they're simply unable to actually execute the policy of selling it, even though they've decided they're selling it).
But this "amplified.com" site is in fact selling it. However, I've never heard of them before, and like a lot of other online retailers who I've never purchased from, I'm reluctant to hand over my credit card number. So I decided to use a feature my credit card offers called "ShopSafe", which lets you generate temporary numbers with a given limit and expiration date.
I decided to use a temporary number I created two weeks ago that had one dollar left on the account. The purchase came back "declined due to insufficient funds". Odd, given that the track was supposed to be $.99, and there's a dollar left on the limit.
OK, I decided to create a new number, just in case the old one was the problem. Limit $1, expires 2/07.
Declined due to insufficient funds.
Well, maybe like many companies, they actually ding you for just a bit more for some reason. OK. I bumped the limit on the temp number up to $5.
Declined due to insufficient funds.
Suffice it to say that if this was just about purchasing the song, I would have given up by this point for certain. But I don't want some brain-damanged analyst who is unable to fathom the very idea of *ease of experience* to attribute the failure of this promo to piracy (or worse "people like DRM"), so in principle I want to support it.
$10 limit: declined due to insufficient funds.
I'm sorry? $10 in an account is not enough to purchase a $1 song? This must be the kind of Math that the analytically challenged record labels use to determine their loss figures.
I was finally able to buy when giving the card a limit of $25. For a $1 song. Not to mention 20 minutes of work.
It is an MP3, and it's not bad. For the song itself, it wouldn't be worth the hassle.
Tweet, tweet.
Oh how I wish /. would change this behaviour and put an end to this tedious frist psot that always gets modded up.
The Japanese word for Japan is based on that. Even their flag - it's a rising sun. It's because they were defined by their relation to China, got their writing system (well, 1 of 4) from there, etc. They obviously don't mind, they practically celebrate it. There's a strong traditionalist and historical culture, although there are some subtleties and which /. is not the place to discuss.
That might be the most idiotic thing I have ever read. You may wish to research this a bit before you accidentally preach it to the wrong group....
The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with somebody else's life. -FZ
The PS3 at $650 "represents" 65 ITunes Albums.
- Plus when you buy a PS3 you usually want at least 2 games: ~$150 dollars: 15 Albums.
Then there's the Wii( Weeeeee ).
This year is going to be bad for the music industry.
"Westerner" isn't really commonly used as a term as far as I'm aware, although when I have seen references to "the West", it's also actually still often a Eurocentric term, inherently (it's a term that Westerners basically use for themselves). So the comparison isn't really identical.
The term "asian" isn't really about specificity, so I don't think the trouble you cited is really relevant. It is only "troubling" in the same way that European or African is similarly "less specific".
My vietnamese friend said that oriental is used only when referring to food and that asian or the more specific nationality (korean, etc.) should be used when referring to people.
I have been experimenting With DRM-free MP3's for years -- and they work
pretty good.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Well, the requested format can be generated on the fly using 100% OSS, so if demand for ogg for a particular track is low, no big deal, but if someone requests ogg (or wma, vqf, or any other standard format) it can be generated upon request.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
This is getting off topic (or already is), but I do remember reading somewhere that in most asian countries they use the atlantic ocean to cut off the map, leaving asia around the middle of the map, the americas to the right and europe to the left.
Music industry this is what you do.
Sell lossless files.
Add value. Remaster the music at 32 bit fidelity, 96khz and 5.1 or 7.1 tracks built in. And add lyrics and other meta data to the stream. You can't get that off a CD so it will become the new defacto standard.
Develop a new volume standard. Stop overdriving the signal and depleating the dynamic range to get volume. Instead develop volume level stats for meta data and require music players to adjust the volume of the song so that dynamic range is preserved.
Devolope a worldwide licence database service that allows people to buy the licences on perticular songs and resell and transfer them to others. Legal and voluntary.
It's a good idea to encourage civil behavior in your enemies.
There is a reason that in most modern conflicts, that an unconditional surrender is the only option. Your enemy is still going to want to kill you even if you are a peace for a few years.
I know people think I'm a bit flamey and bitter, but that is how I feel and I believe if you support true artists, then you don't give RIAA a nickel.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
BTW...whatever happened to Stryper? :)
They went to Hell with the Devil?
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?
The MP3 debate is near and dear to my heart and I've given it a lot of thought. So here is my 25 cents (inflation):
CD prices are not, as such, artificially inflated to an outrageous degree. However, they are IMO spending their money inefficiently.
A LOT of the money they collect for a CD has already been spent in marketing.
If we're going to point our fingers at them and say that they're bad people, we should do it because they're ramming (successfully) horrid music down people's throats.
If you listen to the music put out these days, you'd find that almost all of the songs from a given artist sound exactly alike. *cough* metalliwhiner *cough* or any of the other popular bands.
The reasoning behind this is simple: when mary-muffins goes to buy the latest CD, she is less than happy if all the music doesn't sound as good as the 1 or 2 tracks splattered across pay-for-playdio. (I don't like getting a CD for a single song and have the rest of the CD suck either.)
Mary-muffins would know good music if it hit her in the face, she is just never allowed to hear it. The current RIAA members are the gatekeepers. Remember (anyone?) mp3.com? I do.
I found over a dozen bands that never appear on the splaterworks. Small, little bands with unique sounds and really interesting songs.
CNET bought them and for some odd reason, destroyed the entire music catalog and the service. It no longer exists.
Song (as well as movie) piracy exists for a single reason, and it has little to do with money above a certain age: ease.
If I can download a song or 6, in mp3 or better, at an acceptable bitrate in which I can hear the songs before hand (lower bit rate is acceptable for that of course), and if it is as easy as getting songs from bittorrent or whatever (click and go), then I'd buy.
Otherwise, if I can get superior service, packaging, delivery, and ease of use for free... why wouldn't I?
(Spare me the legal or moral argument. I consider the RIAA to be far more reprehensible than someone infringing on their copyrights. I consider them to have sleazed their way into many of the copyrights they own in the first place. I cite http://www.jdray.com/Daviews/courtney.html/ as Courtney Love's take on the music industry and http://negativland.com/albini.html/ as Steve Albini (producer of Nirvana's "In Utero".)
Knowing that the music industry spends a LOT of money on promotion, and that live events and selling goodies (like t-shirts and whatnot) make the bands more money and promote at the same time (assuming people want to see them, unlike the ditzy shizz (those idiotic morons that maligned their country and alienated their entire clientele then wondered what the hell happened)), the music industry simply needs to change tactics.
They would earn (tons) of money, get to keep themselves as the gatekeepers, and take less risk in promotion if they followed this plan:
Excellent book! I liked it, except that it referred to people in the Western Hemisphere as "western" and, more specfically, people in North America as "north American." I think Robert Ludlum could have left out the outrageous racial slurs and the book would have been just as good.
:%s:work:/.:g
Everyone's either too lazy to go out and buy a CD or is uncomfortable with paying online.
I, personally, do buy cheap CDs and rip them to FLAC. This is basically my only option, as I mainly listen to J-Pop (Which is not at any of these music sites, by the way.), like the lossless audio (I can perceive the difference.), and can find CDs for cheap enough. I tend to get albums somewhere between $20 and $30, and singles (Usually at least four songs.) at about $12, after the currency conversion.
In my life I've had more than a few friends who are either asian-american or actually immigrants from a number of countries. The whole idea of "oriental" being derogatory was a surprise to them (and also kind of amusing), which says something when they are actually of east asian ethnicity, or were, in fact, born in one. I had one friend who, being asian herself, was informed in law school (in her 20's) that using oriental was derogatory, something that just flabbergasted her. So I wouldn't take your explanation as being particularly commonplace except maybe in some circles.
I'd agree (having been raised evangelical/catholic (don't ask) and having been exposed to my share of contemporary christian music) that most of the bands suck ass, but when there are exceptions they're quite notable. Demon Hunter is the most recent one I can think of, but I do believe King's X was a christian rock band before they "went secular" (a phrase that always amused me when spoken, as it was accompanied by such a sad intonation).
Have to agree wholeheartedly. I've been putting Veggie quotes in my sig for a couple of years now. I love it when
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Not only that, but the WWII flag of japan had a friggin _rising_sun_ on it.
Now granted, that flag is out of favor because it conjures up images of imperial japan in wwii, iirc, but nonetheless.
Actually, the "X" comes from the Greek letter chi. It's used because it looks like a chi. Xi is the |ks| sound and looks likes an equals sign with an extra bar over the top and parallel to it.
Our modern "x" sounds like |ks| because some dialects of Ancient Greek had the aspirated |k| sound slur, for whatever reason, into the |ks| sound. This was picked up by Latin speakers and thus the letter "x" as we know and love it today was born.
i got any store and not one cd is less than 10$ and those are older not selling ones, i see new cds at 15 and up to as im sick to say once i saw one for 29.95 .25 USD :1.00 USD :1.00 USD :3.25 USD
you need to see the math of how sick and greedy that is, so here we go again.
cd stomped cost
artist at most:1.00 USD
labels etc
marketing etc
total
at 15.00 - 3.25 =12.75 almost 400% markup
at 20$ - 3.25 = 16.75 almost 550% markup
that 30$ cd - 3.25 =26.75 almost 800% markup
so
lets apply this to your next carton of milk.
currently the avg markup on milk is avged about 30%
at 3$ a carton thats about 75cents
so lets say base price of 2$ on avg
now at 400% markup carton cost = base cost + markup ( 2+8=10$)
at 550% thats (2 + 11=13$)
at 800% thats (2+16= 18$)
now who hte heck will pay 10$ for a carton of milk let alone 18$
greedy my arse, the fact is that pirates have such nice ways to get stuff around they cant stop it nor will htey after all these same companies that are suing people also sell that internet access
yah know that adsl or cable for 50$ a month thats the tax right there. Thats the angle.
nothng is free, in fact i pay for everythign i download so piss off, the fact i have knowledge that allows it too me cheaper should impress you not anger you. that i have found a better way, you should invest in ISPS and make your revenues there, it is YOUR ONLY hope RIAA/MPAA
"ERROR
Sorry, this page is not available in your country."
Looks like they REALLY don't want people buying that Norah Jones crap.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
I've never considered this before but could Apple actually be doing us a favour by not licensing fairplay?
By not licensing fairplay the only way for others to get into sales for the somewhat successful(!) ipod is through DRMless format.
I'm sure this has been to the benefit of organisations like emusic which can and do sell unencumbered mp3s to ipod owners.
If the labels want to get into online sales directly the only realistic way to do it is via DRMless mp3 or aac.
Just a thought.
"Everyone knows the best bands are affiliated with Satan"
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I meant to say "because there's nothing wrong with what it means" rather than nothing wrong with the terms, but I didn't preview.
And many black people do use the term nigger and for the reason I gave - they see no reason why a word which means black should be offensive. Then again many black people object to the term and many others don't spare it any thought at all. It's ridiculous to generalize people's opinions based on something as arbitrary as skin colour. But it's also ridiculous that words should become terms of abuse when they mean something that isn't negative. That word is one such example as it wasn't originally an offensive term. Cretin and spastic are other examples, but I used that one as an example because some people have had the sense to reclaim the word as something other than an insult. Contrast it with the medical descriptions used for the mentally disabled which have changed three times in my living memory as if there's something terribly wrong and we have to keep finding different new ways of hiding it.
When an idiot with a prejudice against a group uses a ordinary and correct word as an insult, the problem is with that idiot and not with the word. Suddenly backing off from that word as if it were contaminated does not solve the problem of the idiot.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
... Except the major players behind the SUV market... are not okay. Recent news is showing that they rode the easy cash vehicle (ECV) too long, and are getting crushed by vendors with more efficient SKU lines. As One Of Many to make a Borg joke, they are furious that I am not a customer.
... but only because there's no crusade currently against cereal in some fashion. However, there are stores that also sell the exact same cereal, still fresh ... for less than the classical Manuf. Sugg. Retail.
Buy your Hugo Boss suit - just not at the usual Boss price. I very carefully set a distinction between the item, and the value *that particular sales outlet* chooses to sell it at. It simply becomes an art of getting the exact same value... for less with a variety of savvy tricks.
Cereal is doing "fine" for now
My advice is to be *price sensitive*, not *time sensitive*. If you can wait long enough to use Wall Street's This Quarter Sales mentality against them, then you can often slice 10% or more off prices.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
We're getting ahead of ourselves right here. The US online music sales industry has a reluctance (pressure from the RIAA?) to release anything in a format they can control (other than eMusic, which primarily represents independent labels). The article in question really is just a test to see how accepting the public is of MP3 versus a DRM format (although eMusic seems to be quite successful with their model).
Even under that assumption, I'd think that it's somewhat pointless to re-encode MP3 into OGG or whatever other format (and completely defeats the purpose of FLAC). With all of the "audio quality debates" going on, applying two types of lossy compression on top of each other probably is not a good idea. I'd almost say for certain that the distribution system of these online music stores does not carry the original CD or even the original raw WAV files in stock to do so, when it's much more economically feasable to have the audio pre-packaged and converted (and DRM applied as it's being sent to the customer).
The troll with karma.
Popularlized by SF writer Theodore Sturgeon, there's large quantities of crap everywhere. Including RIAA labels. (All the more reason their pricing is silly.)
... because by the time the averages play out, I end up with 1 good CD per about $8 spent. The fun is, like testing music online, it's a group I physically could never have bought straight up - because I did not know they exist. The other day I 'set the bin a challenge'. 'Let's get a very strange yet smooth cd to read Dean Koontz novels by.' - And the Bin nailed it perfectly.
... and there's some incredible stuff. I have played the Fields of the Nephilim album for a week straight now.
I have a blast picking stuff out of the dollar bins of used stores,
So yes there's some less than stellar stuff on eMusic
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Wouldn't surprise me, though it would probably interest you to know that the translation of the hanzi for China means (more or less) "land of the middle" (character for "center" with the character for "country" or "land").
Cultural centrism is hardly something that Europeans/Americans have a monopoly on, obviously.
dunno about Jazz, but "Petra" was kind of progressive rock.
It was lame, but kinda progressivey. Granted, this is from recalling a band I listened to back in grade school, so maybe it sounded more "progressive" to junior high ears than to my ears now.
They're on tour (or going to be soon) with Slayer, apparently.
No, I'm not kidding.
Just wanted to second your seconding of the gp. I find that there are quality Christian bands, and I find that the ratio of acceptable Christian music to junk is higher nowadays than that of the wider field of rock/pop music. Just an opinion, of course. Also, I believe my sig is still very veggie-related.
I'll take you to the ball, Barbara Manitee!!!
Maybe I got to the party late, but it's modded down now!
Not sure if the ratio is worse than pop rock, but there certainly is a smaller pool of talent to draw from when you're trying to fill out a "playlist" of each. That probably does more to increase the perception of crap: you run out of quality that much faster, since the supply is so much smaller.
:-)
Drive through Quebec and listen to French-language music stations sometime if you really want to hear this phenomenon! There's this booming cottage industry of French "artists" to fill in the allotment of time that these stations require. They probably are never heard outside of the province.
Oh, and my favourite ex-Sig (I rotate them quite often) remains "Look at the tomato. Isn't it sad? He can't dance. Poor tomato!"
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
I could easily blame piracy on P2P software and fair use rights (which allow the copying of copyrighted content, thereby making it easier to pirate, etc, etc), but I'd just be modded -1 Troll.
Wake up. Price is justification to not buy into the market, not to pirate.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
If a track from the Beatles, Zeppelin or Springsteen has exactly the same value as a tune from The Wiggles or Hannah Montana, then the whole space-time continuum is obviously unraveling, creating the vortex of death that's sucking the industry down the internet tubes.
I don't think I said anything about how commonplace it was; the original poster was saying they didn't understand why oriental was considered offensive to some, and I was explaining why. I'm not saying that everyone would find it offensive, or at least be offended to the same degree. But personally at least, I wouldn't go out of my way to use the term "oriental" since I wouldn't know what someone's particular view on the term would be.
You're going to say "they have nothing I want" - until you open your ears in the same way you did when you were a teenager. There's little that's truly mainstream you'll find on your local radio (maybe Creedance) but as a way of finding new music it's cheap enough to just give things a go. If you're in your mid-late thirties and need an excuse to go back through music you missed in the early eighties, or music from now that you've been having trouble justifying based on cost, the tracks end up being less than 30c each. It's fabulous.
ant.
Not odd at all. What about shipping? Don't you think $24.01 is reasonable for shipping a heavy MP3? Especially through high speed innernet pipes? Come on man, let's be fair! ;-)
So did they actually deduct $25 from your account? (What is up with that?)
I tried that before with some religious extremists. I gave them every chance and the benefit of the doubt. They screwed me every time. Now I have kidney failure and two strokes for it.
This isn't just about buying and listening to music. This is about basic freedoms. The RIAA don't care about those. Their main goal isn't just to prevent copyright infringement, but to eliminate any possible competition. Look at the patterns.
To acheive those ends, they have sued and harrassed developers and users of communications sofware reguardless of whether or not they were actually infringing or encouraging the infringing of copyrights. They scared away legit developers and trained the public to believe P2P was only for "sharing free music", which flooded the internet with "free" pop crap music and movies. They have spammed the internet with DMCA complaints, many of which there was probably no infringing activity at all in the first place. They have tried to force DRM systems onto computers, which many of the schemes would likely lock down the system and disallow many legitimate programmers from writing programs on their own computer, even those having nothing to do with sharing files or music.
In fact, look at the Napster case. They completely ignored the users who were doing the infringing activity and went after Napster saying they wouldn't sue the "fans" of their music and advertised "free" music for the system in all the newspapers. Maybe the guy who made Napster intended it to be used that way, but they eventually did this to every popular P2P system (including usenet), reguardless of the intent of the developers.
And you are saying we should make a "peace treaty" with them and buy their music? Yeah, because I want to listen to crappy music all day and watch TV. This internet and computer thing was a poor idea from the start...who am I but a lowly pauper slave with an absurd dream for strange things like freedom and innovation and the ability to communicate and collaborate with people all over the world. Who would want that?
Allofmp3 is not dead yet. The site still exists, and I think (though I've not tried it) you can still download MP3s from it. It's amazing that the RIAA has somehow convinced people that AoMp3 is dead, when it's not.
I would like to repost your rant on my blog.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
"When the saints go marching in"...
The pending amount appears to be $20.99.
Sometimes pending charges are replaced with final charges; I'll be watching closely to see what they do.
Tweet, tweet.
http://clintjcl.wordpress.com/2006/12/11/all-hail- allofmp3com/
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com