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Seventh Harry Potter Book Named

Croakyvoice writes "JK Rowling has today given fans of the Harry Potter books the name of Book 7 of the very popular series via a Christmas present on her site, to get to the name you need to follow a complicated procedure but thankfully the name of the book has been revealed as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows."

101 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. Christmas by ggKimmieGal · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm so obsessed with Harry Potter. This was the best Christmas present she could give out... short of the book itself.

    1. Re:Christmas by Woldry · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm not a demanding fan. I'd've settled for a hefty chunk of the advance from the new book. That would be enough of a Christmas present for me. :-)

      --
      How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
    2. Re:Christmas by Fred_A · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I pretty much gave up after the third or fourth one one (whatever it was called). From what I could see, the stories were all the same : Incompetent but famous Harry Potter gets into some kind of mess, only ever succeeds in getting out of it by accident or when a deus ex machina pops up, ends up failing miserably during the boss level at the end but gets miraculously saved by his friends/teachers/mentors/family/pets. Everyone rejoices. Yawn.

      I suppose this is amusing to younger readers, but the terrible story lines are really painful to me. Which is a bit of a shame since the universe of the books is quite fun.

      Of course things may have gotten better in the later books, but by now I stopped to care.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    3. Re:Christmas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Let's see... I'll give you an analysis NOT based on any preview of actual book, just following what we know so far:

      Dumbledore is indispensable character in the series. In most cases he is good "spiritus movens" behind the scenes (Voldemort is the evil one). It must turn out he either didn't really die or his death will not prevent his new appearances (she can always pull out some magic artifact or spell that modifies the effect of the killing spell, or that lets him remain present as ghost or something). However, this will pose difficulties in explaining why then Harry's parents are, well, dead without any buts.

      Furthermore, it is clearly implied in last book, in the scene when it happens, that Snape killed him according to their (Dumbledore's and Snape's) previous mutual agreement and arrangement (i.e. if Dumbledore is struck by a non killing, forever tormenting spell, which in fact he was) out of mercy, not hatred (Snape is constantly put in position of suspect, only to slap Harry and readers later for being prejudicial, shame on us!). Therefore, Dumbledore, in one form or another, must show up to clear Snape from convictions for his own murder. If Rowling persist to keep Dumbledore dead, it is probably Snape who will take his place as head of anti-Voldemort coalition. However, this leaves Harry without last fatherly protecting figure, which OTOH may be a part of "large picture" central idea unrolled throughout the story: following Harry's stepwise growing up, from a child into an independent, self-sustaining adult (at which point this story starts losing its magic... not 'Wizardly' magic, which is only a decoration and prop for plots, but the magic of childhood) in a fantasy world.

    4. Re:Christmas by Gilmoure · · Score: 4, Funny

      Harry's parents are, well, dead without any buts.

      Damn! Assless through eternity. Do they even let you into heaven like that? That was one mean bad guy that did that to them.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    5. Re:Christmas by Thraxen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oddly enough you could summarize many, if not most, fiction and video games that way. BTW, I'm not sure about the "everyone rejoices" part. The last few books have gotten darker and darker and haven't had entirely happy endings.

    6. Re:Christmas by lotsotech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I totally agree Fred! I can't believe how easily amused all those millions of people that love this series are. Why is it that everyone is so inferior to us? Back to reading stuff that nobody else likes because that means its got to be good!

    7. Re:Christmas by extremescholar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hello, picture in the Headmaster's office, trading cards, etc. He will most certainly be around to give advice.

      --
      Using the Freedom of Speech while I still have it.
    8. Re:Christmas by u38cg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We all have our own theories, but it seems pretty plain to me that Dumbledore was on the baddies side (there are hints here and there if you look for them (can you account for his servants at the end of book four?)). Hence, Snape is a goodie. The central theme of book seven is going to be Potter having to actually trust him. Veritas est.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    9. Re:Christmas by Cryssen · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unless you're Dilbert's garbage Man

      --
      "Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck." -George Carlin
    10. Re:Christmas by OglinTatas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here's the thing: Snape was put in a position which couldn't be resolved any other way. He was forced to take the unbreakable vow to protect the Malfoy boy and to help him complete his mission (kill Dumbledore). But the reason Dumbledore trusted him implicitly is because he also asked Snape to take an unbreakable vow to protect Harry at all costs. Once the death eaters infiltrated Hogwarts, Snape had to help Malfoy kill Dumbledore to prevent greater mayhem, to prevent Malfoy's own death, and especially to get the death eaters out of Hogwarts before a confrontation with Harry, which very likely would have led to Harry's death (especially since Dumbledore was killed). When Harry chased Snape, Snape was so much more powerful and skilled than Harry that he could have killed him easily, and there was no reason not to because now everyone knows Snape is a death eater, right? Wrong. Snape wouldn't even let Harry use an unforgivable curse, because that would ultimately harm the boy himself. (Even though Harry already used Crucio on the death eaters. For that offense he is already doomed to Azkaban. But I guess everyone can overlook that because Harry is the boy wonder.)

      I say Dumbledore asked Snape to take the vow because I believe they were friends, which makes Snape a tragic figure. He was always hated and misunderstood. Even the girl he had a crush on (Harry's mom) laughed when the other boys would torment Snape, and she even married his chief tormentor. Her protests to stop tormenting Snape were only half-hearted at best. Dumbledore was the ONLY friend Snape ever had, and Snape was forced to kill him. If Rowling makes him the hero in the last book, I will be VERY impressed. As much as I like the books, I only like them because she can spin a good yarn. If she was planning the Snape tragedy from the start, wow. If Snape became a death eater on his own, and who could blame him, while the whole world already hated him? If he chose to be a death eater, then I think Dumbledore ASKED him to take the vow. If Dumbledore asked him to become a death eater to spy on Voldemort, then the unbreakable vow is not needed, Dumbledore has reason to trust Snape, and Snape, in spite of being hated by everyone, and having reason to hate Harry himself, is even more of a heroic figure.

      About Harry: Harry IS the final horcrux (or at least the scar on his head is) which makes his hunting and destroying the other horcruxes kind of ironic. We found out in the last book that horcruxes could be living things, such as the snake that embodied Voldemort. When the snake curled around Harry and taunted Dumbledore, telling him that he now has the opportunity to destroy Voldemort forever, I wonder if Dumbledore finally realized that Harry was the horcrux? No one could figure out how Harry managed to survive the attack that killed his parents, the scar was linked to Voldemort (it always hurt when he was around) and it gave Harry powers similar to Voldemort. It was also the scar that the sorting hat wanted to put in Slytherin.

      When Dumbledore revealed the prophesy to Harry, we find out that the prophesy could have meant either Potter or Longbottom would be the one to ultimately destroy Voldemort. Dumbledore and Potter did not know why Voldemort had chosen to "attempt to destroy" Harry, but Dumbledore claimed that that was Voldemort's mistake, and the botched attempt was the accident that created Harry and gave him the power to ultimately destroy Voldemort. WRONG! Voldemort's mistake was only in thinking that Harry was the chosen one, his placing of the horcrux was an insurance policy to attempt to cheat fate (and we know from Greek mythology how well that always turns out). Longbottom is the chosen one, he is still the Charlie Brown figure, the one that can't get things right, but who always gets up and tries again. He has been steadily growing in skill and confidence throughout the books, and he will be the one to destroy the final horcrux. The only question is, can the horcrux in the scar be destroyed without also killing Harry?

    11. Re:Christmas by bkr1_2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thank you. Though I think only the images from pictures in the headmaster's office have that special ability...communication I mean.

      Dumbledore is dead. That doesn't mean he's not a part of the next book. He had to die to force the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort, otherwise it would always be Dumbledore saving Harry from his own fate.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    12. Re:Christmas by Keyslapper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have to disagree. Dumbledore is arguably an indispensable character, but the fact that he showed up in a painting in the Headmaster's (Headmistress', that is) office is fairly convincing evidence that he's really dead.

      Aside from that, past evidence has made it fairly clear that Dumbledore wouldn't be one to run away from death. - "To the well-ordered mind, death is merely the next great adventure" (paraphrased).

      That doesn't mean he's gone. Remember the painting. That gives us the "Obi Wan" factor. He probably won't speak much directly to Harry - he not being a Hogwarts Headmaster, but he's there, and the painting may well know everything he knew prior to his death - hence the "out" for Snape.

      And I don't think Snape is going to take over Dumbledore's position as the behind the scenes "leader" in any way. He's a spy, working for the downfall of Voldemort, of course, but he's the "Bad Guy, working for Good". He'll do what needs to be done to bring down V, even if it means taking out any number of good or bad players in the process (so long as one of them isn't Snape - or Harry). I also suspect Snape took an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore to make sure he was willing to do anything including kill Dumbledore.

      Snape knows he can't kill Voldemort (yet, Trelawney's prophecy doesn't say Harry will kill him, just that neither can survive while the other lives), though he may or may not know why - nobody knows at this point exactly how much Dumbledore - or Regulus Black (Sirius' brother, probably the one that destroyed the amulet Dumbledore risked his life to get just before his death), would have told Snape.

      A couple things I think may come into play in this last book are a couple seemingly minor details mentioned throughout the previous books:
      Harry's eyes - Everyone seems to dwell on the fact he has his mothers eyes. I don't know how, but I think it's important.
      Voldemort's means of return - in Goblet of Fire, Voldemort uses Harry's blood to overcome the magic protection instilled by Lilly's sacrifice. When Harry mentions this to Dumbledore, his expression suggest an almost victorious feeling, and his response (I don't remember the exact wording) suggests that there may have been a trap of some kind in there. There's also the fact that Pettigrew brought harm to Harry after Harry saved his life in Prizoner of Azkaban. Pettigrew owes Harry a serious debt, and he violated it. That's gonna come back on him hard.

      Can't wait.

    13. Re:Christmas by Keyslapper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Harry being the final horcrux is an interesting theory, but I don't think it's just the scar. If he is the last horcrux, I find it likely that Voldemort would have retrieved it from him with the blood he used to regain physical shape. There isn't much we learned about them in book 6, but I suspect they can be used in just such a manner.

      I seriously doubt Longbottom is the true chosen one. After all, Voldemort chose Harry. That isn't to say Neville won't be an important figure in the end. He has as much reason to hate Voldemort and the Death Eaters as anyone - more than most, and though he doesn't exactly emanate courage, he's proven more than once that he does posess it in reasonable supply.

    14. Re:Christmas by Mr.+Flibble · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with almost everything in your post, except Harry being the final Horcrux. While I have considered it, if you re-read book 6, the act of creating a horcrux is a consious decision, not an unconsious one.

      Harry and Voldemort are linked of course, and the reason Harry survived is answered by Dumbledore in book one. Whether Harry survives the series depends on things other than his being a Horcrux. Finally, Voldemort wants the Horcruxes to survive, there would be no point in putting a Horcrux in Harry if he wanted him dead. Because killing Harry if he was a Horcrux, would destroy the Horcrux, and that is contrary to what Voldemort wants.

      --
      Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
    15. Re:Christmas by Verteiron · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My own pet theory is that Dumbledore is a Phoenix animagus. Death would hardly be the end for him.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    16. Re:Christmas by MartinB · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Harry's eyes - Everyone seems to dwell on the fact he has his mothers eyes. I don't know how, but I think it's important.
      It is - JK has said so. But not how.

      Voldemort's means of return - in Goblet of Fire, Voldemort uses Harry's blood to overcome the magic protection instilled by Lilly's sacrifice. When Harry mentions this to Dumbledore, his expression suggest an almost victorious feeling, and his response (I don't remember the exact wording) suggests that there may have been a trap of some kind in there.
      You may recall how Granny Weatherwax beat the Vampyres[sic]?
      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

    17. Re:Christmas by Keyslapper · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You may recall how Granny Weatherwax beat the Vampyres[sic]?
      Bloody Hell, that never occurred to me!

      Wouldn't it be a hoot if JK turned out to be a Pratchett fan?
    18. Re:Christmas by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think this post COMPLETELY refutes the 'whocares' tag on this story.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  2. Question to CowboyNeal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What part of the "stuff that matters", don't you understand?

    1. Re:Question to CowboyNeal by Gilmoure · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...or the hairiness of black holes.

      Hey, you leave my girlfriend out it!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  3. Damn... by locokamil · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... I was hoping it would be called "Harry Potter and the Back Alley Abortion."

    Seriously, why do people keep on reading this stuff? :: goes and pre orders five copies-- one for self, one for wife, one for sister, one for children, one for mother ::

    1. Re:Damn... by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 5, Funny
      "Harry," said Dumbledore, "we frown upon sex with younger students, especially freshmen boys. You see, this is why we have female goblins and elves around here."

      "I don't quite understand, Sir," said Harry.

      Dumbledore took him by the shoulder. "Ah, Harry, that's what I like about you. Sometimes you're thick as a brick. Which allows us to keep the series going for so many books."

      Hermione interrupted. "*I* understand, Sir."

      "And I've been meaning to speak to you, Hermione. About those candles, broomsticks, and bowling pins the housekeepers report littering your bedchamber..."

      ---- sometimes, you just DON'T want to see the parts Rowling edited out of the draft manuscripts...

    2. Re:Damn... by Kelson · · Score: 2, Funny
      "Harry," said Dumbledore, "we frown upon sex with younger students, especially freshmen boys. You see, this is why we have female goblins and elves around here."

      The sad thing is, you can probably find this story on a Harry Potter fanfic site.

    3. Re:Damn... by identity0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Somehow, I want to imagine Harry as a closet RPG and fantasy geek who keeps his 'hobbies' hidden because of the ridicule hed' get from his friends for being a real wizard who's into fantasy...

      "Harry", said Hermione, "Are you ready to... take this to the next level?"

      "You bet", said Harry. "I'll put on my robe and wizard hat."

      "What? That's not what I'm..."

      "I cast Level 3 eroticism. You turn into a beautiful woman, instead of a flat dork."

      "What did you call me?!?!"

      "I wave my wand of undressing and you turn naked."

      "You have no idea what to do, do you?"

      "I look through the Pokedex for the best creature. Hermione, I choose you!"

      "My god, you're somehow more pathetic than a muggle dork, you play pretend magic even though you're a real wizard?!"

      "Okay, if that's the way you want to play, then I'll use this tome of unspeakable horrors I found in the library. The Necronomicon."

      "What?! Harry, you're not supposed to-"

      "ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Ia! Ia!"

      "My god, what is that thing!?!? It's all tentacle and-"

      "I hope you enjoy this, Hermione, I saw this in a Japanese cartoon once..."

      "*NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!* *mrrrrhhhh*"

      Ah, well. One can dream, can't he? (References to bloodninja and Cthulu)

  4. What's a Hallow? by davecrusoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Our friendly Webster dictionary says: (and I quote) "Etymology: Middle English halowen, from Old English hAlgian, from hAlig holy -- more at HOLY 1 : to make holy or set apart for holy use 2 : to respect greatly : VENERATE synonym see DEVOTE" Interesting -- unless there's something that I'm missing, from earlier books in the series? Thoughts?

    1. Re:What's a Hallow? by Woldry · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Knowing Rowling's punning nomenclature, "Hallows" could be a pun on "hollows" (in the sense of a small, steep valley) / "hallowed [ground]". It's also an old word for a Catholic/Anglican saint, so it may have something to do with that.

      Either way, or even if I'm off base on both counts, I'm definitely on tenterhooks...

      --
      How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
    2. Re:What's a Hallow? by gardyloo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The OED has "hallow" (the noun form) meaning one of the following:

            1. A saint, a god of the heathens, or something belonging thereto (like a relic);
            2. A loud shout or cry, to get dogs to chase, or to draw attention;
            3. The parts of a hare given to hounds as a reward or encouragement after a chase. (I really hope it's this meaning that Rowling has in mind!)

    3. Re:What's a Hallow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's almost certainly a references to the Horcruxes mentioned in the previous book.
      They are 'Hallowed' magical objects into which "He Who Must Not Be Named" has poured a portion of his soul, to keep himself functionally immortal. The last one we saw did a real number on Dumbledore's hand, so yes, these things will convey serious hit points.

      Harry's gonna have to destroy them all before he goes head-to-head with ... Him ... again.

    4. Re:What's a Hallow? by tdelaney · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think so. As another poster pointed out, "hallows" can mean "relics". Now, what would qualify as a "relic" in the previous book, that's associated with death?

      Perhaps a good translation of the title might be ... "Harry Potter and the Horcruxes".

    5. Re:What's a Hallow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's "Godrick's Hollow", not "Hallow".
      The place was named after Godrick Griffindore, one of the founders of the school.

  5. Hallows? by WilliamSChips · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hallowed are the Ori.

    --
    Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  6. Orginal title by edwardpickman · · Score: 2, Funny

    It was originally called "Harry Potter Laughes All The Way To The Bank". But the publisher convinced her to change the title.

    1. Re:Orginal title by Nimey · · Score: 5, Funny

      And a good thing, because that title would have embarrassed the proofreader something fierce.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
  7. You heard it wrong by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's actually: "Harry Potter: the plot is shallow".

  8. Re:The Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    "Harry Potter and the Death Knell of American Literature"

    Are you implying that because an English writer will dominate the Best Seller list for a while?

    Or perhaps you are concerned about millions of kids who have discovered books can be entertaining thanks to Rowlings books?

    Or maybe you're just point out how stupid you are in that you didn't realize one of the biggest selling modern writers is neither American nor are her novels set in America, or that literature and popular books are completely independant?

  9. Re:The Title by WilliamSChips · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Harry Potter is British. What does it have to do with American literature?

    --
    Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  10. Harry Potter And The Slow News Day? by Khakionion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, a book has been titled? So what?

    I can't believe this is on the Beeb and Slashdot's front pages.

    --
    OMG! Wau!
    1. Re:Harry Potter And The Slow News Day? by BoberFett · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course it's on the Beeb, it's major financial news. Harry Potter is the UK's only export. :P

    2. Re:Harry Potter And The Slow News Day? by PlasticArmyMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think that's entirely the point.

      On the BBC it only came a few stories down from the war in Iraq! Important it might be to people who enjoy the books but on that sort of scale? Some people need to give their heads a shake.

    3. Re:Harry Potter And The Slow News Day? by shadowmas · · Score: 4, Funny

      The same can be said of the U.S. military in US. the only difference is that you can enjoy harry potter.

      disclaimer : i'm neither british nor american. :)

    4. Re:Harry Potter And The Slow News Day? by jacobw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is this news? Well...

      Whether or not you like her work, J.K. Rowling is the most financially successful author in the history of the written word. And, no, that is not hyperbole: that is a mathematical fact. According to Forbes magazine, she is the first person in the history of the world to become a billionaire by writing books. Whatever her place in the history of writing as an artform, she has a major place in the history of writing as an industry--equal to Samuel Johnson, the first person to earn a full-time living as a writer in the English language.

      Each of her last three books has set a record for the fastest-selling book in history, only to be surpassed by her next book. The best-selling book of 2004 was The Da Vinci Code, which sold about 6 million copies in its first year of release. The best selling book of 2005 Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, which sold 6.9 million copies in its first 24 hours. Again, putting aside any artistic considerations, JK Rowling sits atop a hugely profitable and influential industry. Imagine if Apple or Ford only announced one product every two years. Don't you think the announcement of that product would get major media attention?

      Finally... For those of us who DO love the Harry Potter books, a major part of the fun is engaging in debate and speculation with other fans. This gives us an excuse to do so. And, most likely, after the final book comes out, we'll never again have quite the same opportunity. With any serial fiction--whether it's "Lost" or the Star Wars movies or the Harry Potter series--there comes a point when the secrets of the story become public knowledge, and you can no longer have the pleasure of concocting your own theories to explain the mysteries. So, hey--let us have our fun.

    5. Re:Harry Potter And The Slow News Day? by webvictim · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nobody wants to hear any more about the war in Iraq - we in the UK didn't want to be part of it in the first place, and yet we didn't get the choice because our leader is a spineless creep. I think that near Christmas, a novelty story about the title of the newest Harry Potter book is probably just what people would like to see, rather than endless bollocks about things that have happened due to an idiot politician trying to secure supplies of oil.

      --
      When did I realise I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realised I was talking to myself.
  11. A better book by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 2, Funny

    Would be Hirsute Ceramist and the Holy Lambda for those of us who like Lord Voldemort's Schemes.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  12. Darned and drat by MjrTom · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was so hoping for Harry Potter and the Closed Casket Funerals. Guess I should have known that that wasn't going to happen.

  13. Re:The Title by PixelScuba · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Amen. I teach 5th grade and it is astonishing to see how engrossed nearly all the students are with the Harry Potter franchise. It's not the movies that draw them in either, that's just icing on the cake. I ask them about a new Potter film and they will tell me, "It's not as good as tht Book." or "This was different in the Book." Older children and young adults love these stories, and why not. A Fantasy world set in the modern era, with young teens as the protagonists who become wrapped up in a mystery at a fantastic magical castle while casting magical spells, defeating monsters and overcoming issues teens their age face (puberty, dating, school/studies). Who has the right to say to readers, "This is crap, read something better," especially to budding readers who are already at an age when young boys begin dropping off from reading as it becomes "uncool." Maybe Harry Potter isn't listed on "great literature" lists, who cares. Kids are reading, and that is reallly the most important part. They are challenging themselves to read a significant novel of considerable depth and length for people their age. If they enjoy these stories, you can turn them on to other works they might enjoy to push their boundaries and reading capabilities. Enough witht he Harry Potter bashing, if you don't like them, don't read them.

  14. Harry Potter and... by coredog64 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was hoping it was going to be "Harry Potter and the Balance of Earth" and that it would come bundled with a copy
    of "An Inconvenient Truth" and some moon sapphires...

  15. Four Hallows of Arthurian legend by tyrr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "The Hallows could refer to the Four Hallows of Arthurian legend. They are intimately connected to the Grail and ultimately probably go back to the Four Treasures of the Tuatha de Danaan of Irish myth.

    The Four Hallows are:

    The Cup or Chalice
    The Baton or Wand
    The Sword or Dagger
    The Coin, Disc or Pentacle

    I think we were right all along in connecting the horcruxes to the four elements. These hallows are associated with the elements, and match up quite nicely to the remaining horcruxes:

    Cup (HH)
    Baton or Wand (RR)
    Sword or Dagger (GG)
    Pentacle (SS locket)

    Just my two knuts!"

    Read here: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showtopic=368 09&st=0

  16. Re:The Title by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They're also, by the way, great books for brushing up on a foreign language: they're translated into just about everything and the way each book is successively harder gives you a chance to start slow and be reading at a young adult level by the end.

  17. www.jkrowling.com by Aeron65432 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If you go to her home, click on the eraser and you will be taken to a room -- you'll see a window, a door and a mirror.

    In the mirror, you'll see a hallway. Click on the farthest doorknob and look for the Christmas tree. Then click on the center of the door next to the mirror and a wreath appears. Then click on the top of the mirror and you'll see a garland.

    Look for a cobweb next to the door. Click on it, and it will disappear. Now, look at the chimes in the window. Click on the second chime to the right, and hold it down. The chime will turn into the key, which opens the door. Click on the wrapped gift behind the door, then click on it again and figure out the title yourself by playing a game of hangman.

    1. Re:www.jkrowling.com by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When you've completed the puzzle, congratulate yourself excitedly, then get hit with sudden depression at the realization of your lack of social life and the fact you could have been getting exercise outside or perhaps plowing a member of the opposite sex rather than following a clicky game on some fantasy author's site and playing a game of hangman to get a book title that was already announced on your daily nerd news site. You poor sod.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    2. Re:www.jkrowling.com by Skinnybrown · · Score: 2, Insightful
      When you've completed the puzzle, congratulate yourself excitedly, then get hit with sudden depression at the realization of your lack of social life and the fact you could have been getting exercise outside or perhaps plowing a member of the opposite sex rather than following a clicky game on some fantasy author's site and playing a game of hangman to get a book title that was already announced on your daily nerd news site. You poor sod.
      Oh the irony! How much exercise did you get, and how many members of the opposite sex did you "plow" whilst reading this article and its comments, then taking the time to post a reply?
    3. Re:www.jkrowling.com by Hillgiant · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hands don't count, dude.

      --
      -
  18. New Name by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 2, Funny

    No, It's going to be named " Harry Potter and the Franchise of Sequels."

    --
    "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
    1. Re:New Name by 75th+Trombone · · Score: 4, Informative

      For what it's worth, J.K. Rowling intended there to be seven books in the series from Day One --- before she even knew whether the first one would sell enough to get the others published. She has said unequivocally that Book 7 will be the last (except MAYBE someday she'll publish all her unpublished notes that didn't make it into the books, or got changed before they made it into the books, etc.), and she'll stick to it.

      If she doesn't stick to it, THEN you're more than welcome to pull out the "money-grubbing" accusations.

      --
      The United States of America: We do what we must because we can.
    2. Re:New Name by cskrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If she continues writing, I wonder if she'll continue to use the HP universe for future story lines. She has put a lot of effort into building it and it seems to be as cohesive as Tolkien's Middle Earth (though perhaps not as expansive).

      Of course if she isn't completely idiotic with her money, the work that she has done on Harry Potter will have her and her children set for life financially if she should choose to retire once the last three movies are complete.

      --
      My God! It's full of eval()'s.
  19. Re:The Title by glwtta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "This is crap, read something better,"

    I don't think anyone's saying that, especially not to kids. It's the hordes of adults who go on about it being some quantum leap in the evolution of literature, who are somewhat bemusing (or annoying, depending on your perspective).

    --
    sic transit gloria mundi
  20. Re:The Title by Woldry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wouldn't call it a quantum leap, but I do agree with C. S. Lewis who said (I'm paraphrasing here, can't find the exact quote), if a book is worth reading when you're five, it's worth reading when you're fifty.

    --
    How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
  21. Damn... by Ka+D'Argo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mod me down if you must but damn, the one time I don't have mod points to use and like the majority of comments are just flamebait and trolling. Quite a few nerds are into Harry Potter, let's not forget nerds extend into the fantasy genre, and there has been plenty of news on such things as Lord of the Rings or Warhammer on /. in the past...So why the hate for HP? If you dislike the novels for their story and such, thats your opinion you are entitled too but damn, don't dis on Neil for putting up a story many of us are interested in.

    --
    Aw Frell this
  22. Shutting down by illuminatedwax · · Score: 2, Funny

    I am now severing my connection to the Internet. I can no longer trust even the most unlikely sources for Harry Potter spoilers. Fucking Richard Stallman ruined it for me last time. He sure got an earful from me, though.

    --
    Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
  23. Re:The Title by thePig · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My biggest issue with Harry Potter series is that it depicts the protagonist as one who has no genius, is not hard-working by any standards, has bigotry - in short - an absolutely average person.
    The protagonist then goes and defeats a much more able antagonist (whose biggest fault is bigotry, by the way) with nothing more than - love of his mother protecting him.

    My biggest issue with such a story - that too tailored for young children - is that the protagonist is not anywhere close to the perfect role model for children - and they are impressionable at that age. I am not asking for the protagonist to be a genius - I am just saying there should be some real stand-out feature in the protagonist - in a children's book. I couldn't find it in this book.
    When I read the book, it felt as if the political correctness of the current times have enveloped the fantasy world too.

    YMMV.

    --
    rajmohan_h@yahoo.com
  24. HP and the (ADJECTIVE | NOUN ADJECTIVAL) NOUN 7 by glwtta · · Score: 5, Funny

    Man, that naming formula is even more boring than Star Wars' "Episode NUMBER: VERB of the NOUN".

    --
    sic transit gloria mundi
  25. Re:The Title by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't like it because of one point you raised (but I think you didn't emphasize enough)- the protagonist is merely average. And yet he manages to overcome through sheer luck of the draw and general bumblingness someone who is by no means average and has an advantage over him in just about every way possible, other than being bigoted.

    Reminds me of that quote from Spacebattles:
    "Evil will always win... because good is STUPID!"

    It just annoys the hell out of me that the bigots always lose because they're bigoted. Sure they're bigots, but I really don't care. The fact that Harry's incompetent bugs the hell out of me a lot more.

    --
    "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
  26. Re:The Title by Thangodin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If he were a superman, that would send the wrong message too: "Oh, well, he can do that because he's really clever and powerful." He's not lazy, but he's not particularly studious either. He actually has to work much harder than Hermione to learn the same things (most of the time, though, he's up to his ass in schoolwork and other problems as well.) On the other hand, he's no slouch--he still manages to be near the head of his class. And he pays dearly for all of his flaws--he makes so many mistakes in Order of the Phoenix that he almost gets everyone killed, and in the end, Sirius Black pays for it with his life.

    What he does have is loyalty, fairness, kindness, generosity, and courage. In every situation, that's what carries him through. In standard fantasy parlance, he'd be a Paladin. The books are about the power of love vs. the power of hatred (ironic that Christians try to ban these books--they just don't get much of anything, do they?) His mother's protection is just a metaphor for that--but his mother's protection, and Dumbledore's, is gone now. In the final book he will have to grow up and face Voldemort alone. He's going to have to work like a trojan to be able to pull it off. But Rowling has set it up so that he's going to be tested most in the very qualities that have carried him so far. All is not what it seems. If Harry behaves like a jerk in the final book, he will lose a great deal, even if he wins the final battle.

  27. Re:Spoiler by 75th+Trombone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Despite your troll, you've almost got it right. The final chapter of the final book will actually be entitled "The Boy Who Lived," just like the first chapter of the first book.

    Note how clever that turn of phrase is: you can look at the table of contents and see that chapter title, but you won't know until you read the book whether it means 1) the boy who used to live, or 2) the boy who fought Voldemort (again) and lived.

    --
    The United States of America: We do what we must because we can.
  28. Re:The Title by Meagermanx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe it's because the character has flaws that millions of people identify with him?
    If you look at Bilbo, Frodo (as you pointed out), or, actually, most contemporary (low- or high-brow) fantasy, you're going to find bumbling characters who make mistakes and only pull through because of Deus Ex Machina, luck of the draw, or some moral accomplishment.
     
    I think it's the fact that we all recognize our own faults and inner issues, and can see them portrayed in these characters, that makes us, as readers, identify with the heroes of these stories.
    We fuck up. We make mistakes. Sometimes, we're jerks to our friends, we don't put enough time into our relationships, and we make the wrong moral decisions.
    Superman doesn't have those problems.
    Harry Potter has those problems.
     
    Remember the success of Spider-Man? From the Wikipedia article: The Spider-Man series broke ground by featuring a hero who himself was an adolescent, to whose "self-obsessions with rejection, inadequacy, and loneliness" young readers could relate.

  29. Best /. post ever by jjohnson · · Score: 5, Funny

    One of the best comments ever was in a long thread about the technicalities of RAID hardware. Someone wrote four long paragraphs, and halfway through the second, tacked on to the end of one sentence "and besides, Hermione dies in the last book anyways." *

    The outrage was tremendous because, before you even realized you were reading a spoiler, you'd finished and comprehended it. Sweetest troll ever.

    * No one knows who dies in the last book, if someone does. At the time, Rowling explicitly said she hadn't decided who. It wasn't a real spoiler, and isn't now. Don't freak out.

    --
    Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
  30. Oblig. Bash quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    #111338
    <JonJonB> Purely in the interests of science, I have replaced the word "wand" with "wang" in the first Harry Potter Book
    <JonJonB> Let's see the results...

    <JonJonB> "Why aren't you supposed to do magic?" asked Harry.
    <JonJonB> "Oh, well -- I was at Hogwarts meself but I -- er -- got expelled, ter tell yeh the truth. In me third year. They snapped me wang in half an' everything

    <JonJonB> A magic wang... this was what Harry had been really looking forward to.

    <JonJonB> "Yes, yes. I thought I'd be seeing you soon. Harry Potter." It wasn't a question. "You have your mother's eyes. It seems only yesterday she was in here herself, buying her first wang. Ten and a quarter inches long, swishy, made of willow. Nice wang for charm work."
    <JonJonB> "Your father, on the other hand, favored a mahogany wang. Eleven inches. "

    <JonJonB> Harry took the wang. He felt a sudden warmth in his fingers. He raised the wang above his head, brought it swishing down through the dusty air and a stream of red and gold sparks shot from the end like a firework, throwing dancing spots of light on to the walls

    <JonJonB> "Oh, move over," Hermione snarled. She grabbed Harry's wang, tapped the lock, and whispered, 'Alohomora!"

    <JonJonB> The troll couldn't feel Harry hanging there, but even a troll will notice if you stick a long bit of wood up its nose, and Harry's wang had still been in his hand when he'd jumped - it had gone straight up one of the troll's nostrils.

    <JonJonB> He bent down and pulled his wang out of the troll's nose. It was covered in what looked like lumpy gray glue.

    <JonJonB> He ran onto the field as you fell, waved his wang, and you sort of slowed down before you hit the ground. Then he whirled his wang at the dementors. Shot silver stuff at them.

    <JonJonB> Ok
    <JonJonB> I have found, definitive proof
    <JonJonB> that J.K Rowling is a dirty DIRTY woman, making a fool of us all
    <JonJonB> "Yes," Harry said, gripping his wang very tightly, and moving into the middle of the deserted classroom. He tried to keep his mind on flying, but something else kept intruding.... Any second now, he might hear his mother again... but he shouldn't think that, or he would hear her again, and he didn't want to... or did he?
    <melusine > O_______O
    <JonJonB> Something silver-white, something enormous, erupted from the end of his wang

    <JonJonJonB> Then, with a sigh, he raised his wang and prodded the silvery substance with its tip.

    <JonJonJonB> 'Get - off - me!' Harry gasped. For a few seconds they struggled, Harry pulling at his uncles sausage-like fingers with his left hand, his right maintaining a firm grip on his raised wang.

  31. "Harry Potter and the Mountain of Royalties" by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    As the series is sometimes referred to by less successful working writers.

    But at least Rowling writes her own books. Tom Clancy seems to have given up writing in favor of licensing his name. Latest "Splinter Cell" book: "Tom Clancy" in big letters at top of front cover. "Written by David Michaels" in small type in grey letters on black background at bottom.

  32. Re:Operation Meat Hammer by king-manic · · Score: 2, Funny

    If I remember correctly Harry Potter was always going to be seven books.

    And Guid^H^H^H^H Voldemort shot first.

    --
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  33. Re:The Title by Yomic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually it's from Spaceballs and the quote is: "... now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb!"

    And pertaining to your arguement, I totally agree that he (Harry Potter) gets through things out of sheer dumb luck, but the fact that he is average gives him a greater appeal to the average kids who can relate to him rather than the typical child prodigy hero who can zap enemies with a cunning flick of his wrist and get out of trouble in the wink of an eye. That wouldn't even work with the storyline presented because most of what happens is DUE TO his inability to get out of certain situations such as sneaking around the school and whatnot. He is also not entirely average because he has proved himself in situations of greater importance like saving a friend or something. A very admirable feat you'd want in a protagonist if you ask me.

    Of course you may want a more interesting protagonist like Raislin from the Dragonlance novels. If so, go read them and let these kids read what they like.

  34. Who will die? by tmk · · Score: 2, Funny

    Joanne K. does it again: she announces the death of two main characters. She did this before 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix' and killed Sirius Black in a pretty inconvincing way.

    Who will die this time? My guess: Dudley eats himself to death and owls hunt Uncle Vernon into the sea...

  35. Re:The Title by AncientWarrior · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Harry is not incompetent -- he is described many times as an extremely talented young wizard. Rowling has clearly put a lot of thought into the precise nature of this talent, and it's a subtle characterization. There is an element of raw power -- recall when Harry and Voldemort's wands are locked together, Harry is able to push back with more than equal force. Harry thinks very quickly under extreme pressure, and has an uncanny ability to react instantly and correctly -- recall, for instance, when he stabs Voldemort's diary with the basilisks fang...


    Of course, talent in wizardry is not something that a muggle could readily comprehend :-)

  36. Re:The Title by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    They're also, by the way, great books for brushing up on a foreign language

    Yes. That's why I buy the British editions and not those translated into my native American. I had no idea that they called sorcerers "philosophers" in the UK!

    --
    And the brethren went away edified.
  37. Re:The Title by MrWa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Harry is the anti-geek: he isn't smart, isn't the best in school, doesn't give a rat's ass about magic, etc. The only thing he is good at is flying his stick; Harry is a JOCK! People love him, help him cheat or give him secret help so that he always looks good in public and the people with real talent around him are diminished. His only claim to fame is his heritage.

  38. SPOILER ALERT by mushadv · · Score: 3, Funny

    Snape kills Dumbledore!

    Oh wait...

  39. Re:The Title by happyemoticon · · Score: 2, Funny

    What gets me is that he's essentially a jock, but we have trouble recognizing it because he hasn't yet adopted jockish bravado nor gotten a pair of magic contact lenses. Think about it. He's:

    • Good at sports,
    • Spends lots of money on fancy sports equipment,
    • Gets special treatment from the powers-that-be,
    • (in)Famous,
    • Guided by his dick, and, most importantly,
    • Dumb.

    Seriously, a trip to Aberzombie and Fitchicus and a six pack of Cooricon's Light is all he needs to become a typical beer-swilling young jock.

  40. Harry hits puberty by Legion303 · · Score: 3, Funny

    _Harry Potter and the Dark, Moist Cave_.

    1. Re:Harry hits puberty by _tognus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Harry Potter and the Hole of Hermione.

  41. Re:The Title by whimdot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ah, but we don't. The problem in translation stems I think from the absence of the relevant period of history on the Western side of the Atlantic. The philosophers' stone was a mythical substance derived from alchemical pursuits with properties of confering eternal life and turning base metal into gold. The alchemists were philosophers and not sorcerers since, after all, even 500 years ago no-one admitted to believing in magic.

  42. Re:The Title by AaronLawrence · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nut... but... he can't be a jock! He wears glasses!

    --
    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
  43. Re:realmuggles.com by KokorHekkus · · Score: 3, Informative

    The writer behind the books on that site took it to court and lost. Apparently the court said that there was no plagiarism but also that she (Stouffler) had lied and doctored evidence. Seems like the last name Potter only occurs in later reprints and not in the original ones... Which is pretty damning proof that she was trying to cash in but didn't trust her proof that much. She applead to a higher court but verdict was upheld. My highly personal opinion: Stouffler is a golddigger and you took the bait hook, line and sinker. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Stouffer

  44. Re:The Title by lilo_booter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you're missing the point - the commendable thing about Harry Potter is simply that it isn't a 'TV show' - kids are reading and for many, HP is their introduction to the diverse world of literature.

    And I would cast another light on the poor role model complaint - people who make good role models are not perfect. If that was a requirement, then no one on the entire face of the planet would qualify. The fact that Harry Potter is not portrayed in an idealistic/impossible manner - with all his faults and failings laid out in front of us - makes the story more interesting and accessible.

    I can't really think of any character from any work of serious fiction (fantasy, sci fi or otherwise) who doesn't have faults. I would probably go as far as to say that a recurring theme in fiction is the consequence and sometimes resolution of the protaganists failings.

  45. Re:The Title by Gilmoure · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Psst! Hey, kid, c'mon, try it. All your friends are doing it. It don't hurt no one. Here, just read a couple of pages...

    While not a fan of Harry Potter (is derivative of other children's books and treats magic the way Star Treck handles science), they have gotten my daughter away from basic picture books and started her reading actual novels. I can't complain about that. Now if only, her reading skills were a little more advanced so that I didn't have to jump in and help her figure out new words ever two minutes. What's wrong with our schools? Don't they teach reading in Kindergarten? /daughter is 6

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
  46. Re:Are you wanting for Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys to by TheMadcapZ · · Score: 3, Funny

    Not everyone only reads C++ GUI interfaces guides.

  47. Re:Are you wanting for Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys to by LordOfTheNoobs · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why not?

    --
    They're there affecting their effect.
  48. Re:The Title by Woldry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are you implying that HP & Lewis's books fail to appeal to adults? I know an awful lot of adults (not to mention publisher's marketing departments, bookstore staff, librarians, and kids whose parents insist on reading the books first) who would disagree with you there.

    --
    How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
  49. Celebrity author syndrome by RogueyWon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Amen to that.

    A couple of years ago, I did a little work around the periphery of the publishing industry. At no point was I even close to anybody who was close to anybody who was involved with any of the Harry Potter books. However, a few of the things that were common knowledge then seem particularly relevant now.

    What J.K. Rowling is increasingly suffering from is Celebrity Author Syndrome. This, simply put, is a state in which no editor has both the guts and the backing from above to stand up to the author in question and insist upon necessary changes. In some cases, this goes hand in hand with the author being a self-important prick, but that's absolutely *not* an essential pre-requisite (and I have absolutely *no* idea what JKR is like to work with).

    Let me explain...

    The vast majority of manuscripts that are submitted to publishers by first-time authors are seriously long. They contain repetition of scenes, subplots that are never developed, page after page of background exposition on characters and vast amounts of unnecessary description and digression. Reading the average freshly-submitted manuscript is a pretty depressing alternative; by the time you've waded through all the padding, you can hardly remember anything about the plot and the characters. Now, of course, most manuscripts submitted to publishers go straight in the bin. Occasionally, however, one will be considered interesting enough to pick up. What happens in this case (with some variation across the industry, but the model remains more or less the same) is that some money might change hands and the publisher might indicate to the author that they could conceivably be convinced to publish the book, provided the author work with a designated editor to strip the work down to something fit for public consumption.

    This process is often pretty gruelling for the first-time author. They've suddenly got an editor, who they likely see as a pen-pushing bureaucrat and spawn of the devil, demanding that they cut out whole chunks of words that the author has sweated blood over. Emotionally, this is surprisingly difficult. However, most first-time authors who have made it this far have a strong incentive to comply with changes demanded by their editor and will comply. After all, the editor's say-so can kill the book. The publisher looses relatively little from killing the project, while for the author, this could mean months or years of work going to waste. Ultimately, it is very rare that a book is not improved beyond recognition by this process.

    However, this dynamic changes massively with a celebrity author (as in, a celebrity who is famous for writing, not a celebrity who has decided to write a book). The publisher suddenly has a lot more to loose if the relationship goes sour. Whatever contractual obligations the author might be under, they know that they'll always have a market for their words elsewhere in the future. If the author is a prick, they can therefore change editors at will and refuse to make changes as they see fit.

    However, even if the author is the nicest, most compliant person in the world, the editor is still going to be under a lot of stress. They know, and the people who pay them know, that this author has been lucrative in the past. The editor knows that his future job security almost certainly depends to a large degree on him managing this author right. There is therefore an enormous temptation to just sit back and assume that the author knows best (even though the wisest authors might realise themselves that this isn't the case).

    We saw the results of this with the 5th and 6th Harry Potter books (and to a lesser extent, the 4th). The 5th book in particular had a stupidly high number of redundant scenes, most of which could have been excised at will. The bizarre, only-half-realised political commentary surrounding Dolores Umbridge ended up eating a significant chunk of the book without adding anything significant to it. The character could (and in an earlier book, would) have been ha

  50. Re:The Title by hotdiggity · · Score: 2, Funny
    > He's going to have to work like a trojan to be able to pull it off.

    I'm not familiar with this comparison. The only trojan I know works very well until you pull it off!

  51. Hating Harry Potter by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    only ever succeeds in getting out of it by accident or when a deus ex machina pops up,

    Far be it from me to tell people what they should like or dislike. But it seems to me that many of the most strident critics of the Harry Potter books are those who insist on measuring them by inappropriate paradigms, in this case the canons of dramatic criticism. Literature as a whole needn't abide by rules that are instrumental to mimesis (represenation), important as they may be to the medium of drama.

    In learning to critique, we oughtn't lose the art of listening.

    I have engaged many people in debates over the merits (or lack thereof) of the Harry Potter books. More often than not they are not simply left cold, as Fred_A seems to be. They are positively offended and outraged by them. I think this ponits the way to some of the chief merits of the books, a point I'll return to in a second. But first I should point out that literary merit is an atomic thing that can be measured on a simple scale. There are many kinds of merit a story may have, such as richness of detail, beauty of language, cleverness in plotting, humor, psychological insight. The Potter books are remarkably rich in some dimensions, and simplistic in others.

    When it comes to language, for example, Rowling is clever, but is no J.R.R. Tolkien. The great pleasure of rereadign Lord of the Rings for the 99th time is the sheer beauty of the writing. For example, look up the passage where Frodo takes a last walk around Bag End, before leaving it to his despised cousins the Sackville-Bagginses. It is a masterpiece of writing; evocative and far more poetic (as is often the case with Tolkien) than the book's attempts at verse.

    It is also true that the Harry Potter books are by no means masterpieces of plotting, to put it mildly. Stories of this sort seldom are. I agree completely with Fred_A's condemnation of the books... but only if we are talking about the movies. Here the books mimetic weaknesses are on full display, and few if any of their diagetic (narrative) strengths.

    The books' greatest strengths are humor and psychological insight. And its important to note that the latter is not necessarily displayed according to the methods of drama, which demand that such insights be shown by the action of plot events on the characters. Narrative arts have no such fundamental constraint. Which brings us to why Harry Potter is so roundly hated by the cultural canon crowd.

    Real life is not dramatic. Unlike a play or movie, most acts are not prompted by motivation, but by habit. People in power, even good people, exercise their power for the most part mindlessly. Nobody knows this better than children, who have no power of their own and must live in accordance with rules set by others. Many of those rules are set for the childrens' benefit; some for the convenience of their betters; others are there just because they've always been there.

    The importance of this truth to the Potter books hit me when I was reading one of the many passages in which Professor MacGonagle, a good and benevolent adult character, fails to listen and uses her authority in an unreasoning way. In various ways we are told that this character is admirable, intelligent and good; but these qualities are never shown in her actions towards Harry. In a drama this would be completely wrong. This apparent inconsistency had always bothered me, but then it struck me that this quite true to life. As a parent, I don't always take time to make the right decision, and often make the wrong decision because it is easier. On reflection, it seems right that all the adults Harry encounters regularly exercise their power unreasonably, even the ones who have his best interests at heart. It is equally necessary that Harry defy them, even though sometimes this turns out to be a terrible mistake.

    In other words, the message of the Harry Potter books is subversive.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Hating Harry Potter by Kozz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I must admit up front that I've never read the HP books, only seen the movies. So on those grounds, I admittedly have a weak case to criticize. Nevertheless, I will. (I'm a huge Stephen King fan, yet 98% of his screenplays have been utter crap)

      I find Rowling's character names to be absolutely Dickensian (Dumbledore, Slitherin, Malfoy, Voldemort), which alone makes me bristle. Mal- bad, mort- death, etc etc. Names that fairly clearly tell you if you should or should NOT like a character the first time you learn their name, if it hasn't already been decided for you. Often times the "bad" characters are positively dripping with malevolent charm, making no attempt to appear as though they've got any righteous principles of any kind. "Ooh, he's wearing black, is constantly scowling, and has pointy eyebrows. Quite clearly, he's a bad, bad man." Often there's very little deceit of any kind -- we know from the word "go" who is good and bad, and we have only to watch the magical deus ex machina work, saving HP from doom.

      Furthermore, the use of magic is so far removed from what I'm accustomed: typically magic is difficult to control, and generally weak (cantrips, etc) for all but the most experienced and mature. But in HP's world, magic stuff seems to be coming off a mass assembly-line, and is cheap and plentiful.

      I one of the movies I watched, I found it amazing that in a "wizard contest" of some sort, the contestants' friends were put in mortal danger without the consent or knowledge of them OR the contestants. Endangering lives of friends for the purpose of a voluntary contest? Seems like madness in which nobody would ever want to participate again. "Harry, please don't put your name on a piece of paper. I don't want to be drowned/dismembered/burned alive" and such.

      Mostly the "magic is cheap" concept pervading the movies really bothered me. Do you feel this experience is better represented in the books? Would I be equally disappointed?

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    2. Re:Hating Harry Potter by Jhon · · Score: 2
      one of the movies I watched, I found it amazing that in a "wizard contest" of some sort, the contestants' friends were put in mortal danger without the consent or knowledge of them OR the contestants.
      Yup... you didn't read the books. That "wizard contest" of some sort where the "friends were put in mortal danger"? They were in no real danger at all. Ever. The book made that clear. The movie, less so.

      My opinion is that the movies are more or less 'eye-candy' for those who read and enjoyed the books.
    3. Re:Hating Harry Potter by jafac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One does not come to truly appreciate the wretchedness of Rowling's prose, until one reads the series aloud. The adverb-abuse, particularly in the third book is painfully annoying, and I can't give her any sort of free pass on style. To her credit, after the third book, she seems to have figured out how to occasionally slip a sentence or two in with less than 3 adverbs.

      The importance of this truth to the Potter books hit me when I was reading one of the many passages in which Professor MacGonagle, a good and benevolent adult character, fails to listen and uses her authority in an unreasoning way

      Holy crap that's gotten tiresome after 6 fucking books about "dumb adults".

      In other words, the message of the Harry Potter books is subversive.

      But not subtly so. Reading Rowling's subversive message is like stepping in front of a train.
      There's another series of books out there called "A Series of Unfortunate Events" - which is also centered around the idea of stupid adults. Only the book is so obviously on the campy side, it's not as painful to watch as the lives of the protagonists get worse and worse on the failings of adults. It's funny, in a black way. The subversive genius of these books is the moral self-doubt the protagonists go through, as they question the morality of their own actions, as necessity for survival. Mister Snickett's prose is a lot more fun to read as well. Rowling had started out on the campy side in her first book, but quickly abandoned that, so now the whole series is situated uncomfortably somewhere inbetween campy and serious.

      Rowling makes Harry exceptional only in ways that enable him to fight power, never in ways that allow him to wield it over others.

      Two words. Septus Semprum. To me - this is the only interesting thread in the whole series; Will Harry learn the lesson Snape learned (though failed to teach, out of his inability to forgive)? - only it's the same lesson Anakin Skywalker learned.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    4. Re:Hating Harry Potter by hey! · · Score: 2

      Mostly the "magic is cheap" concept pervading the movies really bothered me. Do you feel this experience is better represented in the books? Would I be equally disappointed?


      Disappointed, I guess, if that is your primary interest in reading the books. You might be better served by Larry Niven's Warlock books, which explore the mechanics of magic as a limited resource in detail.

      Stories are contraptions that get their authors' points across. Characters are never realistic, even in "realistic" fiction; they are little automatons that exist for purposes of demonstration. The laws of magic must also apply, not for their own ends (unless they are an end in themselves), but to serve the author's point.

      Again and again, the Potter books strongly imply that magical powers, while astounding, are limited. For example, there are rich wizards and poor wizards. Harry's nemesis, Draco Malfoy, comes from a rich and aristocratic family. Harry's best friend, Ron, comes from a poor family. These distinctions are necessary to the book, but are somewhat curious, given that any wizard can conjure things out of thin air. Harry's favorite teacher is unable to find a job, and goes about in shabby, patched clothing despite the fact that wizards can repair things perfectly with a wave of their wand.

      All this implies that there are limitations on what magic can accomplish, otherwise wizards would not resort to anything as mundane as buying goods and services with money. However, the nature of these limitations is never specified. One must accept that magic functions in a limited way, without having the exact nature of those limitations explained. An airplane, in a sci fi story, might do all kinds of other things that are impossible for real planes to do, but we can still take it as given that it cannot fly to the Moon. Unless the author needs it to. But then, in the words of Desi Arnaz, Lucy has some 'splainin to do.

      Is this a flaw? Possibly. However, the function of magic and the reasons why its use are not really that important to the book. It's more important that Ron be poor and Draco rich than we have a detailed explanation of the economic forces which create disparity in the wizarding world.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  52. Re:The Title by d3ac0n · · Score: 4, Informative
    (ironic that Christians try to ban these books--they just don't get much of anything, do they?)


    Actually, most Christians DO get this. It's just the few idiot ones that don't. Christianity is like any other social group on the planet. It's made up of humans, some of which are morons. Unfortunately, Christian morons seem to get more press than those of other stripes.

    I realize that there are many here on Slashdot that, for one reason or another, have thier hate on for Christians. I'm not going to address that bigotry right now. But for those that don't hate Christians, but really do think they all want to ban Harry Potter, I recommend going here and reading:

    http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/12/21/laura -mallory-and-the-misguided-crusade/

    Not all Christians want to ban Harry Potter. Most don't, and those that do are a small moronic minority.
    --
    Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
  53. Re:The Title by OglinTatas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Amen again. I have been getting my nieces and nephews books for Christmas and birthday gifts since they were born. (I also get them a cool toy, I'm not a complete jerk. Although they ONLY remember that I get them "stupid" books, not which books, not even that they got toys too... but I digress) I would get them "classic" books like RL Stevenson, Tolkein, Dumas, Baum, L.Ingles-Wilder, Lewis Caroll, etc. I would even try to read to them at appropriate age levels, but if it wasn't TV or video games, they are not interested. Then came the Harry Potter books, and they actually _enjoyed_ reading. Who would have thought? Now they _ask_ for specific titles (mostly dragon stuff right now), if they haven't already gotten those book from the library, and it pleases me. But _I_ didn't get them reading, Ms. Rowling did.

  54. Re:The Title by FacePlant · · Score: 2, Funny

    Those poor Americans have to get their literature from somewhere.

    That's why we grew Christopher Paolini [Eragon] in vat in a secret laboratory.

    --
    My Heart Is A Flower
  55. Re:Christmas present (where to find it) by cortex · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you go to jkrowling.com, click on the eraser and you will be taken to a room you'll see a window, a door and a mirror. In the mirror, you'll see a hallway. Click on the farthest doorknob and look for the Christmas tree. They click on the center of the door next to the mirror and a wreath appears. Then click on the top of the mirror and you'll see a garland. Look for a cobweb next to the door. Click on it, and it will disappear. Now, look at the chimes in the window. Click on the second chime to the right, and hold it down. The chime will turn into the key, which opens the door. Click on the wrapped gift behind the door, then click on it again and figure out the title yourself by playing a game of hangman.

    from hecklerspray.com

  56. Re:Are you wanting for Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys to by TheMadcapZ · · Score: 3, Funny

    Cause J.K Rowling hasn't written "Harry Potter and the Blue Screen of Death"

  57. You really need to read the books by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Most of your criticisms don't really apply to the books, particularly the later ones. Character names start to mis-apply more and more...Snape for example has a clearly evil-sounding name and evilly-painted character, but the (slowly revealed) truth is much more complicated. Dumbledore is revealed to be more manipulative and violent(although still basically good). Good Slytherin characters are introduced--they just happen to be cunning in their goodness. One of the most rewarding things about the series is the way in which motivations and backstories are revealed and intertwined. The movies simplify all this stuff quite a bit.

    But in HP's world, magic stuff seems to be coming off a mass assembly-line, and is cheap and plentiful.


    You've nailed it here--magic is basically an alternate technology base for a parallel society. Rowling does a pretty good job defining the rules and then exploring their implications. For one thing physical harm is not nearly as dangerous as magical harm. One of the characters is discovered to be a wizard when he falls out a second story window as a baby and simply bounces like a rubber ball. People are constantly breaking arms, having all their bones magicked out of their body, getting cut and bitten and burned--and all getting healed by magic. But no trauma to the psyche/soul is healable by magic (including death). The base concept seems to be making real the perceived distinction between body and mind.

    Consider our technologies--we live in houses with electrical voltages that can kill us, natural gas lines, various powerful poisons, etc. We drive multi-ton vehicles down the road at 80 MPH. There's actually a fair amount of humor in the books based around technology differences--like the horror the main characters feel toward our medical practices ("They actually stitch people up with needle and thread? How barbaric!" - paraphrase) As we grow up we learn to manage and operate around our societal dangers. In the Harry Potter books the children are doing the same thing--the physical dangers are greatly exaggerated though, because the technology to mitigate/recover from them is so much better (magic). Thus it helps tell the story that all children know well--learning that things that seem scary at first are managable as you learn more and get older. When you're three, a stove is scary dangerous thing. When you're 13, you're expected to heat your own soup. :-)

    If you're going to read the series, there's one more thing to keep in mind--they are written to the age of Harry in the book. So the first several books are shorter, simpler, and more rah-rah. But as Harry ages into a teenager, the books get longer, more morally complex, and darker. You have to set your expectations accordingly.
    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  58. Christians Banning Harry Potter by jzoetewey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One thing I find ironic is that the Zeeland, Michigan Public Schools took Harry Potter off the shelves. The Zeeland Christian Schools (run by a relatively conservative denomination of which I'm member) kept them on the shelves.

    I know this because my mom was a teacher in the Zeeland Christian Schools and is currently a media specialist (aka librarian) for them. She likes the books quite a lot herself. She had nothing to to do with the fact that they're still on the shelves though.

    I'd say that some Christians try to ban them, but far from all. In fact, I'd say that quite a lot of them like the books.