2007 the Best Year Yet For PSP & DS

ElFozzie writes "From a handheld perspective, Pocket Gamer has posted a couple of features offering a positive viewpoint on the reasons why both PSP and DS might have a very happy new year. Tellingly, whilst the PSP piece focuses on a range of new potential developments from new peripherals and downloadable video content to price drops and even a new version of the handheld system, the DS article simply highlights 10 top games titles due to hit the streets in the next 12 months. On one level this could be argued as a reflection of the divergent strategies of the two devices and companies, with Sony trying to establish all-singing, all-dancing, all movie-music-and-gaming 'entertainment platforms', whereas Nintendo have focused solidly upon one core area. However a simpler argument would suggest it's merely underlining why Nintendo has raced ahead this year and the lesson Sony are going to have to learn if they are to have any chance of a truly prosperous 2007 — "It's about the games stupid!""

Comments

Prediction

[popo]

The development of MMORPG's for handhelds is going to be simply enormous.

Just wait until the crack addiction can be taken anywhere...

IMHO, the company that gets there first (and does it well) could easily win the battle.

Re:Prediction

[Martin Foster]

That would probably be popular for a certain segment of the population. However, I would imagine that there are still several people out there who want a handheld gaming system to be able to play short quick games in between intermissions in their lives. Something as demanding as a MMORPG game is not something you can turn on, play for five minutes while the kid takes a nap and close up when (s)he cries.

There is an entire market of novelty toys that play games like poker, sodoku and so forth. This shows that people want something small, portable and quick to put down in a matter of seconds. Again a game that requires online play, cannot be really saved in a current position (put down, change diaper and take up again) is not really suited for this type of gameplay.

Besides, to play online you need STABLE hotspots and LOTS of battery power since WiFi will generaly kill your batteries faster (so the PSP may not be a great candidate for this). Hardly what I would call portable with the current connectivity available in a city now.

Re:Prediction

[aussie_a]

With Pokemon Diamond and Pearl taking the long needed step forward to online play, I'm waiting until the Pokemon MMORPG comes out. Given the formula of Pokemon from Pokemon Red and Blue I think it would definitely convert well to an MMORPG.

Re:Prediction

[KDR_11k]

It's like crack... you can take OUTSIDE!

Wait, no, that actually makes sense and would never make it past Sony's marketing execs.

Re:Prediction

[eugene_roux]

There is an entire market of novelty toys that play games like poker, sodoku and so forth.

Can we say Vexed? Those bastards! I hate them; they've stolen many hours of my life...

It's the one game, though, that would fully justify me replacing my TX if it had to depart this world for Valhalla prematurely...

Re:Prediction

[ImTheDarkcyde]

I am sorry, but I have to clear up this total misunderstanding. The PSP battery is really not as bad as people make it out to be. The only time it takes a real hit is when you're watching UMDs or playing a game for 6 hours straight, even online. The reason it gets such a bad rep for battery is because, yeah, it still is about half of the DS battery life, but it is by no means a short battery life, who the heck plays a handheld for 6 hours in one sitting?

Re:Prediction

[Planesdragon]

who the heck plays a handheld for 6 hours in one sitting? 1: It's 6 hours per charge, not per sitting. I sure as heck don't use my PDA for eight hours straight, so that eight hours per-charge lasts me a few days.

2: Just about anyone who would need a portable game console can go through six hours per day. Kids on car trips, college students stuck and college with neither a ride nor homework between classes (Yes, that happens), and moms playing in small breaks around the house can all pretty easily get to six hours.

Re:Prediction

[toleraen]

1. It's not difficult to plug it in while you're not using it. For instance, while you're sleeping. I fail to see where plugging in a device to charge it every once in a while becomes a hinderance.

2. See #1. The only thing you listed that would last more than 6 hours in a single day might be a road trip. If you're going to be road tripping for that long though, you may as well invest in a power inverter.

If things get real bad, just buy a second battery. It's not the most convenient, but the battery is easy to change out, and it's small. Plus they make a battery that holds a bigger charge, so it lasts even longer. I can only remember one time where I ran out of battery.

Re:Prediction

[Abcd1234]

You bastard. Now I'm *never* gonna get anything done...

Re:Prediction

[jamar0303]

Plane trips are the reason for the PSP battery to last longer than 6 hours per charge. Of course, most people where I live (China) don't complain about battery life, but then again, they all run games off of memory stick (with games priced at $50 each I don't blame them or me- I used to have a PSP before I got a DS Lite so I was one of those people) so the disk drive isn't used at all. Heck, if my laptop (Panasonic Let's Note/Toughbook T5- finally upgraded from that VAIO) can last 15 hours on a standard battery (up to 21 hours with an additional battery) so should something like the PSP.

Re:Prediction

[Mysticalfruit]

I find myself in a constant state of frustration with Sony. The PSP is a great device, but much like the PS2 they haven't even tapped the full potential of the system and due to silly concerns (such as piracy) probably never will. They've talked ferverently about downloadable games being available for the PSP, yet all I ever see are at best freely available demos and at the moment only PS1 games available via a PS3... What I'd really like is for Sony to make an SDK available for us homebrew software writers to create our own PSP games.

Re:Prediction

[PeelBoy]

Weren't they just saying that MMORPGs like WOW were actually hurting PC game sales because everybody was too addicted to WOW?

Seems like a game as addiciting as WOW might not actually be a good thing ;)

I do kind of agree with you tho.. Just had to point that out!

Re:Prediction

[LKM]

The development of MMORPG's for handhelds is going to be simply enormous.

That would require a constant internet connection. Ever heard of the N-Gage? Yeah. Me neither.

Re:Prediction

[LKM]

It's not difficult to plug it in while you're not using it

Except it is. I mean, listen to yourself. "It's no problem that your phone has to be recharged during the day! Just plug it in while you're not using it!" Not good enough. Plugging a portable device in during the night is acceptable. Everything else isn't.

I don't want to take the freaking charger with me all the time, and even if I do have the charger with me, I don't want the PSP plugged in all the time. The perfect example is my GBA micro. It just sits in my jacket pocket and I take it out whenever I'm waiting for a bus or otherwise bored. I charge it about once a week, and it has never run out of juice, no matter how much I use it. That's how portable devices are supposed to work.

it's certainly ironic

[macadamia_harold]

On one level this could be argued as a reflection of the divergent strategies of the two devices and companies, with Sony trying to establish all-singing, all-dancing, all movie-music-and-gaming 'entertainment platforms'

If that's their strategy, it's certainly ironic; Sony's content arm (Columbia, Sony Music, etc) has historically hobbled their hardware divisions like SCEA (playstation, psp, digital walkman) to the greatest extent possible. What they don't seem to understand is that the more they tighten their grip on digital media, the more hardware sales will slip through their fingers...

Re:it's certainly ironic

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony will never learn that lesson - they tried to tighten their grip on the Sony Beta videotape format only to watch control of that market slip through their fingers. They came out with the first and consistently the best videotape format but kept it proprietary. Guess which format made in the US because of their attempt to keep a tight grip on their format?

Re:it's certainly ironic

[thatguywhoiam]

If that's their strategy, it's certainly ironic; Sony's content arm (Columbia, Sony Music, etc) has historically hobbled their hardware divisions like SCEA (playstation, psp, digital walkman) to the greatest extent possible. What they don't seem to understand is that the more they tighten their grip on digital media, the more hardware sales will slip through their fingers...

Tarkin references aside, its worth elaborating on this a little, as it is emblematic of a bigger fight.

Sony's various content arms have tried like hell to hamstring their electronics divisions over the last few years, ever since 'the gloves came off' as far as the RIAA/MPAA goes - but with what I would call limited success. Sony BMG were able to roll out their rootkit with no input or interference from Sony Electronics for instance.

But here's the thing - hardware sales dwarf content sales. Absolutely dwarf them, something like 10-to-1. This is not just true of Sony but the entire industry. Hardware simply generates a hell of a lot more money.

This is why the iPod goes like crazy, and Apple does its placating DRM-lite (although any is bad) on their content, so they can get the juicy hit singles that power iTunes while really making the money off the hardware sales. Its also why Microsoft created the Xbox and Zune.

But you end up with a crazy situation. As Lessig points out often, the content people swing way above their weight class legislatively, when you take into account the actual money generated. They get the protectionist laws passed that they like. And the hardware guys mostly sit mum, with Intel putting their hand up every so often, offering to be helpful. The content guys know they are fighting for their lives, and need to fight dirty to keep anything like the level of cash flow they are used to. (I choose that word carefully - they fight dirty - there is no other way to put it really). Hardware guys maybe know that they will be around forever, who knows why this is.

Now, back on topic, as far as Sony Electronics goes, we can see evidence of the backlash in recent products. Keep in mind that 'recent products' is a wide area for a slow-turning behemoth like Sony. But the most recent and prevalent example, the PS3, plays no DRM'd files. Not a one - its all straight down the middle MPEG1/2/4. And it has regular card readers - compact flash, SD etc. Won't play WMA, won't play anything DRM'd at all. And runs foreign code. Contrast that with the PSP which plays open formats but not unsigned code, contrast that with previous Sony products prior to that which have Sony-special hard drives, memory cards, fucking power plugs, everyting. It seems like a trend. Even the phones follow this, they are backing away like crazy even as their co-branded record label and movie studio scream their fool heads off.

Who knows where it will net out but lets hope that Welsh guy they have for a CEO now has given the electronics guys their balls back. Where they belong, not as cat's-toys for SonyBMG. (Also lets hope they medicate Kutaragi. Yeesh.)

Re:it's certainly ironic

[totally bogus dude]

This is why the iPod goes like crazy, and Apple does its placating DRM-lite [...] while really making the money off the hardware sales. Its also why Microsoft created the Xbox and Zune.

I thought the X-Box was sold at a loss on the hardware itself (and a significant loss at that), and they make their money from sales of licensed games for it. Isn't that how the major consoles work? Otherwise, interesting post.

Re:it's certainly ironic

[thatguywhoiam]

I thought the X-Box was sold at a loss on the hardware itself (and a significant loss at that), and they make their money from sales of licensed games for it. Isn't that how the major consoles work?

That's part of the story. It really depends on which console you talk about. The Xbox plan has always been similar to the Playstation one, which is to make money of game licenses as you said. However the mass production of these machines is aimed partly at driving down the cost of the components as demand ramps up, so the original xbox (console, not division) probably made a profit sometime within the first year as those components came down.

The Wii probably makes a profit now - hard not to, on 88 megs of RAM and a 700Mhz proc.

The PS3 certainly costs Sony money now, but they have taken a bigger gamble than MS, assuming they can bring Blu-ray and the Cell chip down from their current high cost by riding on their brand's success. It actually doesn't bode well for a price-drop on PS3 hardware anytime soon, as Sony will want to recoup as much as they can once they begin to break even on that hardware. But look at what they did with the PS2 Emotion Engine; it shrank to a single chip (from 3) a long time ago and basically provided the design for the PSP. Its quite complicated when you try to work out all the angles Sony is looking at.

Re:it's certainly ironic

[Breakfast Pants]

Playstation is part of their content arm; they lose money on every console sold.

Re:it's certainly ironic

[justchris]

That's not really true. If the PS2 did make a loss initially, it was very small, and was only for the first couple of months.

Contrary to popular belief, what Microsoft did, and what Sony is doing now is not standard in the industry. Especially in the case of the original Xbox, which was never profitable on the hardware, which is why Microsoft killed it so quickly and thoroughly. The reason is, unlike every other company, Microsoft purchased the parts wholesale and put them together into the Xbox case. All other consoles (including the 360), the company contracted to fabricate the parts themselves, so basically they pay a license fee to the original developer of the hardware, but they build and combine the hardware in their own fabrication plants. That's why there are usually hardware shortages when a system initially launches, because the company has to either open up, or convert, fabrication plants, and get them up to speed.

Because they're actually building the hardware themselves, instead of just buying it prebuilt, when the cost to build the hardware is reduced, the company saves money. In the case of the original Xbox, when the cost to produce the hardware was reduced, it wasn't Microsoft who was making more money. They were still paying the same amount per chip to Intel & Nvidia, even though the chips became cheaper to make.

Microsoft learned their lesson, and the 360 is both designed and constructed much more like a home console gaming machine than the original Xbox, which was basically a miniature pc sold for about half the price an equivalent pc would cost.

Also, while hardware does produce more revenue than software, software produces more profit. There is a reason that Nintendo is the most profitable of the console makers, and always has been. They concentrate on software, so have the smallest revenue of all, but still end up with the greatest profit.

Re:it's certainly ironic

[SethraLavode]

"Most profitable" means exactly that -- the one who makes the most money, after accounting for expenses. Software is more profitable than hardware because the company keeps a greater percentage of the gross revenues.

Certainly, a larger company like Sony has higher overall revenues and they sold more PS2s than Nintendo sold Gamecubes, but a significantly larger percentage of their revenue comes from hardware. Nintendo is the #1 video game publisher and I'm not sure that Sony's studios are even in the top ten. Sony makes some money from third-party publishers, but not as much as they do on their own games.

You are right in that you have to have a good profit margin to make a lot of money, but you're drawing the wrong conclusions. Sony is the one who has to sell a lot more product because they make less money for each sale. They don't make as much money (if any) on the hardware, and they don't sell as many software titles. Nintendo makes more money per sale, so they don't have to move as many units. Sony has to "shoot for the big pie", because they can't be successful otherwise.

As a final note, regarding your "who will win this round", it's always said that Sony won the last round hands-down. That's true if you're only looking at the raw number of home (non-handheld) consoles sold, but the big picture is that over the lifetime of the PS2, Nintendo has been more profitable than Sony. Roughly converted from yen (at today's rates, which isn't exactly accurate), Nintendo made $4.2bil to Sony's $3.9bil. (Rather than post the raw numbers, I'll link to a previous post.

Re:it's certainly ironic

[Total_Wimp]

Thanks for the numbers. They're quite illuminating. When you further break out Sony's numbers and only look at the game division, it gets even worse.

I compared operating revenue for 2005. Sony doesn't show net profitability per division, presumably because you can't properly account for the effect of corporate taxes, investments, etc on a per division basis. Also, operating income is commonly used by investors to get a truer picture of how the company is doing in it's core business practices minus one-time charges like restructuring, tax changes, etc.

I looked at 2005 because Sony 2006 operating revenue is dragged down by PS3 R&D so 2005 gives a better comparison of core game businesses as it stood before "next gen" started significantly changing numbers. That's not to say 2006 isn't valid. Nintendo had to do R&D on the Wii as well. However, adding next gen numbers only further muddles the comparison of GC to PS2 net profitability.

Sony: ~43 billion yen (game division operating income 2005)
Nintendo: ~113 billion yen (company operating income 2005)

Nintendo appears to make close to three times as much "profit" as Sony. Clearly it's a juggernaut.

But even here the numbers don't quite add up. This is clearly not an apples to apples PS2 to Gamecube comparison.

According to the report, sales for the GBA and GBA software were massive (75 million and 328 million), far eclipsing both the Gamecube and DS combined (31 million and 249 million). Even so, DS sales for hardware was quite good, coming reasonably close to the Gamecube( 21 million to 17 million). On a per unit basis, the Gamecube only represented less than 20% of hardware sales and just under a third of software sales. It should also be noted that the price of GBA is only a little less than the Gamecube and that the DS is significantly more expensive. Though GBA games are about half the price of Gamecube games, DS games are just a little less.

For the same time period, though Sony doesn't break out unit sold numbers, It's easy to see that the PSP wasn't a major factor since it started sales in December 2004 and the physical year ended in March 2005. Therefore Sony's numbers predominantly reflect PS2 hardware and software sales.

With these factors are taken into account, Sony's numbers look much, much better. What are they? I don't know. Neither company broke out operating income by game platform and software. But based on the unit sales of the GBA and DS hardware and software, and also deleting any operating income associated with the PSP, it's likely the PS2 beat the Gamecube for both hardware and software operating income, and as far as operating income reflects sales minus costs to produce and sell the units, for the sake of this discussion, in total profit.

After you were so good as to give numbers, I hate to engage in guessing like this. But the GBA numbers were so staggering I think it's warranted. It's simply not a correct comparison if you add in profit for a market that Sony isn't even competing it. It would be like Sony adding in profits from TV sales.

That said, and after I've gone this far to point out that the PS2 was probably "more profitable" than the Gamecube, I think you'll be a little surprised by my conclusion. If I were a Nintendo stockholder, I'd be fairly well pleased by the performance of the Gamecube. The thing was very competitive considering it's distant third place finish in units sold. I'm personally surprised to see this, but aside from making me do some guessing about the breakout, I think these numbers are quite compelling. Furthermore, it makes me look at the Wii very differently. I've always assumed, and still do, that the PS3 will sell much better than the Wii in the long run. But I no longer think that's nearly as bad for Nintendo as I have in the past. These guys are proof that even if you lose, you can still win. They've done a superb job of keeping their eyes on what counts to a company, the profit, and I can't help but applaud them for it.

TW

Re:it's certainly ironic

[PeelBoy]

Great post except for a few tiny things.

Game consoles aren't sold to make huge levels of profit. The main part of the profit comes from the software (games) sold for them.

You point out the Microsoft and the Xbox which is a horrible example because Microsoft made billions and billions of dollars on software not hardware and the Xbox lost billions and billions of dollars.

I picked up a DS for my little one this Christmas.

[(H)elix1]

Gave my 7 year old a DS this year. I am just astounded by the hardware. Great battery life, wifi (sans built in browser), touch screen, a microphone. Nice solid feeling unit. Her cousins had the Nintendo units as well, so all of them were able to play together in a virtual world (Animal Crossing) with the built in networking. As a nice touch, it also had a slot where it could play the older gameboy as well as the newer DS kit.

After playing with the kit and getting past the 'fun' part of playing games, one of the things that has me wondering is what does the SDK look like/cost to get into developing for the DS. Can anyone comment on what it costs to develop for that platform? I've heard that the Wii is ~$2,500. Anyone know what the DS SDK goes for?

It's interesting

[seebs]

I picked up a PS3 (for Linux) and I've been hanging out with PS3 users. It's fascinating. They have no idea about content restrictions. When I posted a comment on my blog about how annoying HDCP is (if I didn't have it, I'd be running my PS3 at 1920x1200... But it's impossible in my setup because of HDCP), I got a bitchy remark from someone who insisted that Linux has full access to the hard drive, and just doesn't read the PS3 filesystem. No, Sony actually virtualizes the machine so you see only the part of the disk that doesn't have any Sony data on it.

The war between Sony's content and hardware people is pretty vivid here.

Re:It's interesting

[thatguywhoiam]

I picked up a PS3 (for Linux) and I've been hanging out with PS3 users. It's fascinating. They have no idea about content restrictions. When I posted a comment on my blog about how annoying HDCP is (if I didn't have it, I'd be running my PS3 at 1920x1200... But it's impossible in my setup because of HDCP), I got a bitchy remark from someone who insisted that Linux has full access to the hard drive, and just doesn't read the PS3 filesystem. No, Sony actually virtualizes the machine so you see only the part of the disk that doesn't have any Sony data on it.

The reason they don't care is because they are happily converting their files to MPEG-4/AVC, right up to 1080p, and merrily playing them back off the harddrive or DVD-R. HDCP is not an issue.

Re:It's interesting

[seebs]

HDCP is, in fact, an issue.

See, there's a common claim that HDCP applies only to blu-ray movies.

NOT SO!

If I connect my PS3 directly to an HDCP monitor (using HDMI->DVI), I get playback in everything -- XMB, games, Linux.

If I connect it through a console switch, I get static. If I connect it to a non-HDCP monitor, I get a blank screen.

HDCP is on 100% of the time on the HDMI output, no matter what you are viewing. There is no way I can find to disable it, even if you're running the Linux console in 640x480. You always get HDCP.

Now, you can just use component outs, and those will work fine up to 720p or 1080i. (You can, if you want, forcibly assert that you can do 1080p through them, but the signal is too degraded to be much good.) Then there's no HDCP, either.

But if you want the digital output, you get HDCP. And yes, so far as I can tell, this applies even when you're in VESA modes rather than NTSCP modes.

Re:It's interesting

[thatguywhoiam]

HDCP is, in fact, an issue. See, there's a common claim that HDCP applies only to blu-ray movies. NOT SO! If I connect my PS3 directly to an HDCP monitor (using HDMI->DVI), I get playback in everything -- XMB, games, Linux. If I connect it through a console switch, I get static. If I connect it to a non-HDCP monitor, I get a blank screen.

I don't quite understand what you mean. I've played back 1080p files through both HDMI and Component. Now, my TV doesn't go to 1080p, only 1080i. But what is the limitation? What were you prevented from doing, other than using your switcher? If you used an HDMI-DVI converter, then I would have to guess the issue is not HDCP but something else? (as you've now converted the signal successfully?) I apologize if I missed something.

By the way I disagree with your comment about component vs HDMI - to my eyes they are awfully close, so close only an expert could tell. I am an expert as it happens, but the difference is so slight as to be practically indistinguishable. Again this is abviously all for 1080i - 1080p is impossible over component. (I'm not quite sure how the Xbox360 claims this actually - it was supposed to get a 1080p 'update' but it only has component video out.)

Re:It's interesting

[seebs]

HDMI->DVI does not bypass HDCP; it's just a question of wires. The cables are $20 or so. It's just a bunch of wires. The signal coming out of the PS3 is still HDCP-encoded.

So what I'm prevented from doing is connecting the PS3, via DVI, to ANY device that isn't HDCP, including my console switch, so I can't put the PS3 on the beautiful 24" HDCP-capable monitor I use for everything else. Since I am not about to buy another monitor just for the PS3, or spend extra money to replace a perfectly functional DVI switch with a DVI switch that also does HDCP, just for one stupid games machine, it means the PS3 gets dumped on a lower res display.

More generally, it means I can't just hook the PS3's DVI output up to a generic PC monitor; it has to have extra features, and the list of warnings about failure modes in my monitor's manual was beautiful. Apparently, if you interrupt the signal for a while, you may have to reboot to recover it, because the negotiation may need to be restarted. All this extra hardware just to try to keep people from copying movies.

1080p vs. 1080i is a pretty big difference. HDMI allows 1080p. It also, under Linux, allows 1920x1200.

FWIW, I have successfully set my component cable to 1080p output, and it was even possible to see the screen, but it looked like crap.

Re:It's interesting

[ucblockhead]

That's not about content protection so much as it is about preventing anyone from doing real game development for the PS using Linux, something that would hurt their business model. It's a balance between homebrew as a selling point and making money charging people to make games.

Re:It's interesting

[thatguywhoiam]

So what I'm prevented from doing is connecting the PS3, via DVI, to ANY device that isn't HDCP, including my console switch, so I can't put the PS3 on the beautiful 24" HDCP-capable monitor I use for everything else. Since I am not about to buy another monitor just for the PS3, or spend extra money to replace a perfectly functional DVI switch with a DVI switch that also does HDCP, just for one stupid games machine, it means the PS3 gets dumped on a lower res display.

Ah, ok - thank you. I didn't quite get that you had actually run out of HDMI inputs, you must have a lot of very new AV gear. I was also not aware that HDCP somehow 'carries' over a DVI converter - I will have to research this more.

Re:It's interesting

[seebs]

It's a DVI switch, not an HDMI switch. I have nothing with HDMI except the PS3. I do, however, have a DVI switch for my computers. I would connect the PS3 to it, too, but I can't because of HDCP. The "converter" is just wires.

It's not a shortage of inputs in general -- the monitor also has component, and so on -- it's just that I'd love to be able to have a single switch, because then I could have my regular keyboard, mouse, and monitor when using the PS3.

They make HDCP-compliant DVI switches, but they cost lots extra, and I don't have the spare money.

Re:It's interesting

[supermank17]

The thing you need to realize about HDCP "carrying" over the DVI converter, is that DVI and HDMI are compatible with each other. There is no real "conversion". All a HDMI to DVI cable does is switch the wires around into a different pin-out.

It's not about Games...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about getting the worst assclown fanboys with false advertising. Make them recognize your video game console as a status symbol and you won't have to care about quality, price or content anymore.

Look at the PS3. It looks like a status symbol. Not like something you have fun with.

Re:It's not about Games...

[SetupWeasel]

Yeah, but the PS3 ain't selling. It's almost as if the American consumer grew a brain.

Re:It's not about Games...

[7Prime]

No way man, there must be another reason.

PSP vs DS

[MrNash]

I can't help but wonder if the boat has already sailed for the PSP. A lot of what these articles discuss as being a boon to the handheld will take a fair bit of time to implement before any beneficial results will be seen. In the meantime, the DS is doing extremely well for itself, and has a number of highly anticipated games in the pipes in comparison to the PSP. Even if these steps by Sony do help the PSP improve its market share, will it put a dent in development costs for the system? That there could remain a major impetus to publishers supporting the handheld. Why make a game that could very likely have a PS2-esque development budget when you can make a DS game for a fraction of the cost/risk? It makes me wonder how much the userbase for the PSP will need to expand in order for game publishers to feel that they'll get a decent ROI from supporting the handheld.

Re:PSP vs DS

[Odonian]

My (very unscientific) sampling during the holiday shopping rush seems to support this. After stopping in several mall game stores (EB Games, Gamestop, etc.) that take trade-ins, I saw dozens of used PSPs for sale, and new ones could be had just about everywhere. Several stores were out of new DSes though, and I don't think I saw any used ones for sale at these shops.

Re:PSP vs DS

[aussie_a]

To add to the anecdotal evidence: My brother also abandoned his PSP after less then a year, but he does do that with every console (GBA, PS2). It makes me quite happy because he buys the consoles and I get to play them :D

Re:PSP vs DS

[toolie]

Maybe it is because, unlike Nintendo, Sony wasn't playing games with stock and trying to create artifical sortages to build up hype.

They didn't meet their Wii numbers, but it will look good in the financial report that they sold out of DSs and they were hard to come by....

I think you meant to say:

Maybe it is because, unlike Sony, Nintendo didn't shoot themselves in the foot in every stage of development and marketing and actually figured out what consumers want, in both the handheld and console markets.

PSP has the chance to shine

[DrXym]

The PSP is a great handheld but its been dogged by shoddy PS2 ports and unoptimized content which takes too long to load. Thankfully its had a lot of great titles appear in the last 12 months (LocoRock, Tekken, MGS: Portable Ops etc.) and finally looks like its shaken off these issues. It also makes for a great multimedia device and I often rip movies, music & shows to watch on it. Even so, the justification for the built-in UMD is rather tenuous, especially with near zero-interest in UMD videos, thanks in part to their rip-off prices.

Where I think the future lies for the PSP is in downloadable content and Sony shows signs of thinking that too. Recent versions of the firmware allow the PSP to play downloaded demos from memory stick, and emulated PS1 titles too. I expect that soon enough we'll see a Sony store on the cross bar selling downloadable games, movies and music for the PSP. It wouldn't even surprise me if / when a PSP Mk2 appears that the UMD drive is an optional external add-on and that games can be played from a large chunk of internal memory and managed via firmware, PC / PS3 or downloaded directly from the store to be played.

Re:PSP has the chance to shine

[thatguywhoiam]

I expect that soon enough we'll see a Sony store on the cross bar selling downloadable games, movies and music for the PSP. It wouldn't even surprise me if / when a PSP Mk2 appears that the UMD drive is an optional external add-on and that games can be played from a large chunk of internal memory and managed via firmware, PC / PS3 or downloaded directly from the store to be played.

Well, we already can see a rudimentary store for this in the PS3 'Playstation Store'.

But I think you are absolutely right. Memory card prices are falling like crazy - it makes sense to drop the UMD and release a PSP 'lite' that is thinner/smaller overall.

Re:PSP has the chance to shine

[Babbster]

The problem there is that Sony would then be abandoning the market they've already created. While that market isn't matching up to the DS, it's still a significant population, and a population that has been "loyal" to Sony in buying their handheld. Considering that at least part of the magic of the DS is the ability to play the back-catalog of GBA titles, it seems like people would consider it another strike against Sony if they released a new handheld that wasn't backward compatible with the first PSP's games.

Personally, I'm just about ready to jump on the PSP because they've finally got enough games that I wouldn't consider it a ripoff (I'm not the "homebrew" type) - maybe after I finish Final Fantasy III. Of course, that's after a year with the DS and buying many titles for that system. :)

Re:PSP has the chance to shine

[thatguywhoiam]

The problem there is that Sony would then be abandoning the market they've already created. While that market isn't matching up to the DS, it's still a significant population, and a population that has been "loyal" to Sony in buying their handheld. Considering that at least part of the magic of the DS is the ability to play the back-catalog of GBA titles, it seems like people would consider it another strike against Sony if they released a new handheld that wasn't backward compatible with the first PSP's games.

Yeah - I thought that too. But if you do the math on the actual size of these games, it really doesn't look so bad if they went all-download. A UMD, if I recall, is 1.8 GB. Most PSP games don't max that out, some are significantly smaller. With 4GB memorysticks from Sandisk going for around $100 (CDN), it becomes a viable option. They'd have to pack-in at least a 1GB stick with the 'new' PSP though. And if I am being totally realistic, they'll probably hang onto UMD through sheer inertia as you said and then its just Yet Another Game Format. I'm hoping Sony looks at the phenomenal success of the DS and releases this lite PSP with maybe a camera built-in. And a pony of course.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[PhoenixFlare]

And meanwhile, for every "dedicated hardcore fan" that buys a PSP to hack to pieces, there's 1+x people from many other groups buying a DS. The homebrew may be infinitely cool, but I think you're being a little delusional if you think that's going to propel it past the DS (which, i've heard, has homebrew options of its own). Last time I saw some (Japanese) sale numbers, the DS was beating the PSP almost 4:1 in sales.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you mean that ds isn't very hackeable?

I don't think so, there is a hacked firmware for ds called flashme that allows you to run unsigned code, there are also lots of homebrew developers, those people have released programs such as dsorganize(pda), beup(msn clone) and lots of other different programs, there is a wide variety of flashcarts which allow you to run wathever you want

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[cowscows]

Unfortunately for Sony, the homebrew market is not big enough to support a console. In the grand scheme of things, there aren't enough people interested in it, and the very nature of homebrew means that its enthusiasts are going to be buying less PSP games, and games are where the real money is made.

There's nothing wrong with the PC, do-it-yourself mentality, but it's not why most people buy consoles.

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[ClamIAm]

As a nice touch, it also had a slot where it could play the older gameboy as well as the newer DS kit.

Since when is the Gameboy Advance an "older" system? Holy crap man, you're the one with kids, and you're making me feel old. TIME PARADOX.

Also, I suggest getting a screen protector. Even the most careful person in the world will eventually scratch up that touchscreen.

Also also, you can get a "free" SDK if you do a search for "ds homebrew". Getting one from N costs most of your soul (plus money).

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[HappySqurriel]

Buying a PSP with your main purpose not being to play games sounds like the dumbest idea ever.

This is why the next year should be interesting ...

The DS has created quite a large margine in hardware sales worldwide and is outselling the PSP in all regions; on top of that the DS has far less expensive development as compared to the PSP. Over the next year the DS will probably recieve far more game development from third party developers because the risk is far lower.

An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[aussie_a]

I haven't bought a new system since my gameboy and then a few years later my playstation (although I do, have access to a Playstation 2 and Gameboy Advance I take advantage of). So looking at the PS3, Wii, DS, PSP and Xbox360, I am considering perhaps its time I upgraded. However none of the 3 big consoles have really sold me yet, while the handhelds are gaining my interest much more.

Now to be honest both the PSP and DS had a pretty terrible year in 2006 for me as an RPG fan living in Australia. The DS only had:
* Lunar: Dragon Song - Doesn't look that good according to most people. The description of it also sounds sub-par. I'll skip this one most likely.
* Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time - I'll pass. I'm a Pokemon fan so I obviously don't have a very high bar, but this game falls below it by the sounds of it.
* Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team - Even though I'm a fan of the Pokemon games, even I have my limits. Can't say this idea really grabs me.
* Pokemon Ranger - Sounds like an interesting twist, but the story seems lacking.
* Children of Mana - Eugh. No thanks. I want something more then dungeon crawling.

The PSP only had:
* Breath of Fire III - I've already got this one. Nice try though Sony.
* Kingdom of Paradise - Eh. Gameplay sounds interesting, story not so much.
* Monster Hunter Freedom - I prefer my turn based games.
* PoPoLoCrois - Sounds interesting.
* Tales of Eternia - Definitely want to get this one.
* Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade - Yikes, it sounds like it has a Baldur's Gate combat system. No thanks.
* Ys: The Ark of Napishtim - I have to admit I've never gotten into the Ys series and given this is a Zelda type combat system, I probably won't get into it with this game.

So for 2006 only 2 RPGs came out in Australia that I want, and only one of those is one I'm keen on. But the PSP does have a 2 game lead over the DS going into 2007.

Now for 2007 the DS games I'm looking forward to are:
* Dragon Quest IX - If this comes out in Australia, I'd like to find out more. However current info points to an action type combat system which is one I dislike. So while I do want more info, my hopes aren't too high.
* Final Fantasy III - No, we haven't got it yet. Yes, I do want it :)
* Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings - I was quite surprised to see this when looking at 2007's line-up for this post. But I'm definitely interested, if we get it in Australia (which is extremely likely if its released outside of Japan, which again is extremely likely ;)).
* Pokemon Diamond and Pearl - This is the big draw for the DS for me. And given it has online functionality I'll be able to trade. As a 22 year old pokemon fan, I don't know anyone in person who is a fan.
* Vandal Hearts - Vandal Hearts was the first game I ever played on the PSX, so I'm a fan. However there's no indication it will get released in Australia.

So only 3 games for 2007 by the looks of it. Not a very good line-up. Now moving onto the PSP. It will have:
* Crisis Core - I'm a FFVII fan from when it was first released. How could I not be interested? Well easy, it looks like they did away with turn based/ATB/anything not too action oriented battles.

Well shit. That's not a lot. So it looks like 2007 will be the year of the DS, although will it be enough for me to lay out the money for it? I'm thinking I might wait until 2008, but don't quote me on that. It could quite possibly come down to whether or not DQ9 and Vandal Hearts make it to Australia and if they do, what they're gameplay is like. If both come to Australia with a battle system I like a good story, then I can definitely see myself getting a DS. Otherwise, I can see myself waiting until 2008.

Now as for the articles, I found the PSP one to be as telling as the submitter. It only confirms my suspicions that the PSP won't be the console for me in 2007 (however I do have access to my brother's, so it's pretty much as if I already own it as he's already abandoned it. However with only 1 game on it from 2006, not 2007, I'm not exactly going to be calling it the year of the PSP for myself). The DS article was also inferior to my own research, but thats because I have very specific tastes.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[ucblockhead]

Untold Legends is more like Diablo if Diablo were unbalanced and mediocre.

Dungeon Seige is a bit better (so far) but still not great.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[KDR_11k]

If you don't like action RPGs stay away from the Tales games, if you want to perform at your best in battles in those games you need to take direct control of one or more characters and pull off combos like there's no tomorrow. I think I do 50% or more of the damage with my active character in Symphonia and Phantasia so leaving all characters to the AI will greatly reduce your party's damage output.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[aussie_a]

Get a PS2, and FFXII, Grandia 3, DQ8, Digital Devel Saga 1 & 2, Tales of Legendia, Shadow Hearts 1-3, Star Ocean 2, etc. As I said I do have a playstation 2 that I have access to and that I take advantage of and I do have a few games on it (I'm waiting until I complete those before I buy more). Its my brothers so it would be pointless for me to buy another ;) But thanks anyway :) And I'm glad to hear my suspicions on the current DS roleplaying games and PSP games are on target.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[justchris]

In that case, get a DS. It gives you access not only to the DS RPGs out now and in the future, but also to all the GBA RPGs, which there are quite a few of, going all the way back to Golden Sun & Golden Sun 2 (which are great). Since all handhelds are region free, you can also import GBA & DS games that were never released in your region and play them easily.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[aussie_a]

The Tales games are an exception to my "don't like action" rule. I find their system is different enough that I can use it.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[aussie_a]

I might rent it if I ever get a DS. Thanks.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[MeanderingMind]

Did Contact come out where you are? That's an excellent and atypical RPG from 2006 on the DS you might consider.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[steveo777]

I've been reading the threads and responses in your post. I reserve the term "elitist bastard" for people like you. Mostly because buying gifts for my "elitist bastard" friends is a royal pain in the butt. :)

At any rate. Sounds like you can play PS2 whenever you want, and that's the real RPG hub. PSP is getting a lot of watered down ports from the PS2. Very few are any better than their PS2 counter-parts with little being added as far as content or playability.

Stick with a handheld as you can import any game and won't have a problem with regions. I would recommend the DS just because it's got a better interface and you've got a PS2 already. DS is getting lots of interesting games and a few ports that are worth owning. Plus you can play the GBA games you enjoy.

Maybe post a list of games that you have played and enjoyed and people can recommend off of that list. For now, I'd say just wait for the right games to be released.

Re:An Australian RPG Fan's Viewpoint

[geminidomino]

Untold Legends is more like Diablo if Diablo were unbalanced and mediocre.

You mean it's not? Glad I passed on that one then... (finally bought a PSP when 3.02OE-b came out)

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[edwdig]

The big issue with the dev kits isn't the cost - it's convincing Nintendo to sell it to you. You have to be a legit company. They won't sell it to you if you work from home.

What?

[Mongoose]

I don't like articles like this when they ignore product releases, because it's not in their region.

You can play Metal Gear: Portable Ops, SEGA's star gazer title, and use the mapping software in Japan for the GPS unit already. Even the US Firmware has had PSP camera support for a long time now. The thing is with PSP you can use hardware from any region with your PSP. I have had several of add-ons for some time on my PSP. Vaporware? My ass. The more 'region-free' game hardware get the more annoying these articles become. Often it's cheaper to import some add-ons than buy them local anyway if you buy bundles with software.

Re:What?

[Mongoose]

Nintendo is making add-ons like the mp3 player and Opera browser already. You can't be taken serious with a luddite attitude that you should make a games only handheld. You'll be shocked to find out once Nintendo starts using higher speced hardware the portables made will be more like the PSP than the DS. Why would you not want to be able to browse the web, watch a movie, or listen to music in addition to playing games? I'd rather have all the new hardware add-ons than another Pokemon or Square/Enix Branded Edition DS Lite. I'm glad you like the DS, but don't be floored when Nintendo starts focusing on the same non-gaming features you decry. I don't see any plans for virtual console titles on the DS, but I do see PSOne titles on the PSP right now. It all comes down to personal preference, and for me the DS is not even going to do half of what I want in a handheld.

As for your comments about not liking PSP games, I have to say most developers only make certain a few specific genres for PSP -- just like the DS only has a seperate narrow selection as well. I personally don't like even the most popular DS titles, and I perfer games like Talkman, Portable Ops, and Disgaea on PSP. I just can't get into old rehashes of games I played ten years ago. I also like something besides what feels like a collection of cheap minigames or a gameplay gimmick, and most DS games feel like they're for kids with ADD.

Also since I know some Japanese it's nice to be able to import games at will from Japan for every single title w/o the worry of region locks. I can even use the PSP to study Japanese with reading and audio material when I get a bit of free time even if all that material isn't commerically provided. You say the "PSP sucks", however I say the DS just plays some old games I don't want anyway. =)

Re:What?

[xtieburn]

'I don't like articles like this when they ignore product releases, because it's not in their region.'

The article is written specifically about how well the PSP is doing in Europe and the import market simply isnt a major factor in the grand scheme of things. A tiny, tiny fraction of people rely on importing hardware and such to improve there gaming. (Especially with Sony making it very clear that they are not fond of that habit.) Not to mention that its questionable whether you could even take that in to account given the money is going out of Europe.

It really isnt unreasonable to ignore what is going on in the Japanese market when you could release just about anything over there and it would have a neglagable to non existent effect over here. Its also not too far of a stretch to consider things over there to be vaporware for here. (Even though I dont believe the article actually said vaporware.) More than few items have come out in Japan and gotten no further.

Re:What?

[KDR_11k]

I perfer games like [..] Disgaea on PSP. I just can't get into old rehashes of games I played ten years ago.

Something about this statement strikes me as interesting.

What I want from a PSP

[celardore]

It would be nice if there were some decent 2-3 player games on the PSP. Racing games are awful, as there is no AI player. My friends and I reverted to Worms World Party on the NGage, it's the best multiplayer for a handheld in my eyes. WWP is awful on the PSP, there's no cool weapons!

Re:What I want from a PSP

[code-e255]

There is one kickass racing game on the PSP: Wipeout Pure. It's got multiplayer modes too and supports up to 8 players, apparently. There are free downloadable tracks and stuff for it too. And the soundtrack r0x. It's a must-have game on the PSP, imho.

You got Lumines? That should be fun in 2 player mode, too.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Lynxara]

If anything, console manufacturers view extensive homebrew communities as a sign of failure. That's why Sony is constantly updating the PSP's firmware, and frequently just to break homebrew apps. After all, if people are buying PSP's to hack them, then they probably aren't too interested in buying games or other accessories that let Sony turn a profit.

Re:PSP has the chance to shine MOD PARENT UP

[imasu]

This is a really excellent point. It's been a really great year for PSP games. Also the direction you mention for the device totally makes sense to me.

A few more than that

[oGMo]

Er... 2007 will also have D&D Tactics and Disgaea for the PSP off the top of my head. More from IGN's release list:

• Legend of Heroes 3
• Gurumin: A Monstrous Adventure
• Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner
• Valhalla Knights
• Elder Scrolls: Travels

All of these are Q1 releases, including D&D Tactics, so that's six RPGs before April. Check the above list or RPGamer's list for more.

Re:A few more than that

[aussie_a]

I didn't know of a a few of those, although I knew of the others and didn't mention them because I was only mentioning those I'm interested in ;) Of those mentioned on the site for the DS:
* Archaic Sealed Heat - Sounds interesting, but there's no indication it will be released in Australia unfortunately.
* Atelier Lisette - Terrible story.
* Chibi Robo: Park Patrol - See Atelier Lisette.
* Heroes of Mana - I've never gotten interested in the Mana series, but I'd like to check this out as I enjoy good strategy RPGs. However the story will be the final determining factor. That and if its released in Australia (good chance if its released outside of America).
* Luminous Arc - If its released in Australia you can firmly put this in the I want column.
* Lunar Knights - Not the sort of combat system I enjoy.
* Marheaven 2 - Nothing is known but it looks like its predecessor was only released in Japan. Never a good sign.
* Naruto RPG 3 - I see no signs this will be released in Australia.
* Tales of the Tempest - No sign this will get an America release let alone an Australian one. But I am excited if it does come out here.
* Brave Story - Didn't find any details but didn't look too hard. No knowledge if we can expect an American release let alone one for Australia.

So once again, while there's definitely some I missed, it all comes down to which come out in Australia.

Now for the PSP:
* Brave Story - Didn't find any details but didn't look too hard. No knowledge if we can expect an American release let alone one for Australia.
* Disgaea Portable - A PS2 port and one that was released in Australia by the looks of it. Nice try Sony.
* Dungeons & Dragons Tactics - Looks like the story is the typical fare for a D&D game. I'll pass.
* Final Fantasy Tactics: The Lions War - Yet another remake. Although a remake of a game never brought to Australia, I got the American version (I have a chipped Playstation so when I went to America in 2000 I went crazy in buying PSX games).
* Gurumin - Not the sort of battle system I like and a peculiar (not in a good way) story. I'll pass.
* Innocent Life - AAARGH! Keep away.
* Jeanne d'Arc - A strange enough idea I'm willing to take a closer look at reviews when it comes out.
* Magna Carta: Tears of Blood - Another port. This is a problem for the PSP.
* Monster Hunter Portable 2nd - Doesn't look like it will have the type of combat I like.
* Tales of Destiny 2 - The PS2 version wasn't released in America, I don't see why the PSP version will be.
* Tales of Phantasia - Another remake, but this one seems worth it. I also don't have the GBA version yet.
* Tales of the World - I would be interested if its released in Australia.
* Tengai Makyo: Daiyon no Dajiroku - No indication Australia will get it.
* Valhalla Knights - Despite its combat system, I'm interested. If its released in Australia.
* Wild Arms XF - I'm interested if its released in my country.

So of those I'm interested in 4-6 games (my interest is weary of 2 of them) versus the DS's 2 games. So with the games covered in my original post, it brings us to 4-6 games for the PSP and 6 games for the DS. However once more, which make it to Australia is very important.

troll comment but still relevant

[musicphreke]

When someone posts a news post on here they need to use the & instead of just the straight & because it looks like @$$ in an RSS reader. just FYI :)

Yup

[ucblockhead]

That's why I have a PSP and not a PS2. It's nice to have a device I can use on the train, waiting for an oil change, etc. It's also why I almost never play online games on the PC. When I was young, single and childless I could afford to spend hours at a time. Now, when I play, I always have to expect interruptions of one sort or another and therefore need games I can turn off instantly.

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[Rahga]

I haven't looked into it yet (my daughter just got her DS for Christmas, and it's hard enough resisting the urge to pop in Advance Wars whenever it's unused), but looking here and elsewhere, I can't help but think that the bootloading equipment might be more convient but not exactly necessary... Downloading a homebrew through your laptop's wireless into your DS seems less seedy.

To the grandparent, official development isn't even a possibilty on your own unless you've got 20,000 and a decent portfolio of some sort. :)

Can't believe they forgot..

[Ender77]

"phoenix wright justice all" for the DS that comes out this month. The first Phoenix Wright did so well that the demand outpaced the supply, the company had to do a reprint of the game to keep up. This is one game on my MUST HAVE list.

Re:Can't believe they forgot..

[seebs]

Tell me about it! I spent over six months trying to find that game, finally found one of the reprint copies.

And man, was it fun. Ask any of my roommates what I did for the first week or so of our big studio vacation. OBJECTION!

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[muzthe42nd]

As a nice touch, it also had a slot where it could play the older gameboy as well as the newer DS kit. Since when is the Gameboy Advance an "older" system? Holy crap man, you're the one with kids, and you're making me feel old. TIME PARADOX.

Well, it is older than the DS...

Your research sucks

[DoctaWatson]

mostly because you forgot about about the Final Fantasy Tactics remake and the new Disgaea game due out on the PSP, and the new Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles games on the DS.

Also, Magical Starsign came out in 2006 for the DS, and is a pretty good RPG from what I hear. On top of that, there's a whole ton of RPG's out (and still coming out) for the GBA, which the DS plays just fine. The re-release, with new translation, of Final Fantasy VI ranks high on my list this year.

Living in Australia isn't much of an excuse, since the DS isn't region locked. Importing shouldn't be a problem.

Re:Your research sucks

[7Prime]

FF6 will not have a new translation. Four and Five did, because their original translations were shoddy. FF6, on the other hand, has one of the best translations in the series. From what I've heard, they're changing very little. I would have been MUCH happier had they used FF6 to make the 3D cross over, instead of FF3, as FF6 felt like the creators were actually THINKING in 3D, but having to use 2D hardware. FF6 is the first modern jRPG, IMO, but one of the few (along with Chrono Trigger and the Lunar games) that are completely 2D, and deserve another chance to shine.

Re:Your research sucks

[aussie_a]

Your research sucks mostly because you forgot about about the Final Fantasy Tactics remake and the new Disgaea game due out on the PSP I only mentioned games interested in, neither of those interest me as I don't like remakes for portables if I already have the original system its on.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance I did not see that, thankyou. If you're information is correct on imports from America, this will most definitely help sway me towards the DS.

there's a whole ton of RPG's out (and still coming out) for the GBA, which the DS plays just fine Nice try but I already have access to a GBA. That won't be a factor in which handheld system wins me over.

Living in Australia isn't much of an excuse, since the DS isn't region locked. Importing shouldn't be a problem. Finally! Finally, finally, finally! Oh for this alone I think the DS has won me over :D About fucking time the game companies went this route.

Re:Your research sucks

[aussie_a]

Also, Magical Starsign came out in 2006 for the DS Forgot to mention this. Simple story doesn't really thrill me. I might rent it if it was released in Australia.

Re:Your research sucks

[geminidomino]

Personally, I hope I still get to see "Son of a submariner!".

Since that's the FFVI equivalent of "You Spoony Bard!" and they kept the latter, I think you'll be OK. ;)

Also for Zune!

[MMC Monster]

I heard Microsoft is going to double the number of Zunes it sells in 2007, compared to 2006. There's no way Apple can beat that!

(Don't you hate when people use percentages when they are dealing with small numbers?)

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[7Prime]

Lol, Homebrew game are a SYMPTOM (or sign, as you said), of failour, not a cause, as Sony seems to think. Do they really think that chopping off the homebrew market is going to save them? People aren't buying PSPs because there's many homebrew games on them, they're not buying them because they don't have very many good games (well... now they're getting a few, but it's a little late). Their whole emphasis on the hardware is totally misguided. I thought the PS3s hardware emphasis was misguided, but at least with a TV console, there's always the fascination of sitting around tinkering with it (I find myself tinkering with the online side of my Wii). Portables, on the other hand, have always been about playing for a few minutes while waiting in line at the DVM, or with Tokyo and New York, playing on the subway. Sony should throw all their weight behind making it a quick and friendly portable to pick up, it's the only way they'll have a chance against the varitable monolyth of a system that is the DS.

Nationalism

[tepples]

As Lessig points out often, the content people swing way above their weight class legislatively, when you take into account the actual money generated. They get the protectionist laws passed that they like.

Because copyrighted entertainment generates American jobs, while hardware generates Chinese jobs. Except for Sony, all six MPAA members are headquartered in the United States.

Re:Nationalism

[damsa]

News Corp is owned by Aussies, and Universal up until couple of years ago was owned by the French.

But are those really exclusive PSP advantages?

[tepples]

The DS, PS3, and Wii aren't even in the same league. Simply because they aren't very hackable.

The DS Lite is more hackable than any 2.81+ firmware or TA-082 motherboard PSP. All you need are a SuperCard, an SD card, an SD writer, a dollar store eyeglass screwdriver set (to remove the battery cover and bridge a pad on the motherboard behind it), and two minutes' use of a friend's NoPass card to flash the firmware.

You've got a beautiful screen on the PSP

Also on the DS Lite.

wifi

Also on the DS Lite.

inet browser

Also on the DS Lite, everywhere but North America :-(

run ISOs right from the memory card

But can one easily create the ISOs from one's UMD games?

play movies, music

MoonShell on the DS Lite.

streamcast music

There are proof of concept demos for the DS to do this, but granted, it appears that the PSP software for this is much more mature.

trillian style chat with afki

There are AIM, MSN, and IRC clients for DS homebrew. In addition, the touch screen makes a better pseudo-keyboard than the D-pad and buttons do, and the touch screen allows for "ink" chat using the PictoChat firmware or the homeberw MSN client.

thousands and thousands of ROM games

But can one easily create the ROMs from one's cartridges? And who owns thousands and thousands of cartridges anyway? Besides, the DS has working NES, TurboGrafx-16, and Super NES emulators.

Install a homebrew firmware

Can one reliably do this on a TA-082 motherboard and 3.0x firmware without bricking the PSP?

get a huge memstick

Huge SD is cheaper than huge Memory Stick PRO Duo, right?

tons of ISOs and ROMS

Which major commercial game publisher has authorized free redistribution of ROMs?

and a good clear fullbody protective case for it

The DS folds to become its own case.

The only better gaming platform, IMHO, is a laptop, or PC. I don't even consider most consoles as viable gaming platforms simply because they can not or are anethma to running homebrew.

What is the "laptop, or PC" equivalent to the Bomberman or Smash Bros. series?

Re:But are those really exclusive PSP advantages?

[Kamineko]

Atomic Bomberman?

Re:But are those really exclusive PSP advantages?

[Total_Wimp]

The DS Lite is more hackable than any 2.81+ firmware or TA-082 motherboard PSP [wikipedia.org]. All you need are a SuperCard, an SD card, an SD writer, a dollar store eyeglass screwdriver set (to remove the battery cover and bridge a pad on the motherboard behind it), and two minutes' use of a friend's NoPass card [pineight.com] to flash the firmware.

Dude. I've never felt the need to go homebrew on my PSP. Not only was I satisfied with it's stock functionality, but firmware updates on other devices have given me mediocre experiences at best. But this paragraph takes the cake. Why you think anyone would prefer getting a SuperCard, an SD card, an SD writer, open up theier case to bridge a pad on the motherboard and then chase down a NoPass card instead of just finding a PSP with slightly older firmware is beyond me. It's bad enough that you're flashing a ROM, a procedure that's not famously fool-proof, but when you throw in the added risk of destroying your mobo after finding two pieces of specialized hardware, But then you're proclaiming the procedure "easier"? You've got some serious brass balls.

TW

Re:But are those really exclusive PSP advantages?

[tepples]

Why you think anyone would prefer getting a SuperCard, an SD card, an SD writer, open up theier case to bridge a pad on the motherboard and then chase down a NoPass card instead of just finding a PSP with slightly older firmware is beyond me.

Because a lot of people are incapable of buying used in order to get a non-TA-082, pre-2.81 PSP. Because Nintendo toned down its MAFIAA tactics soon after it lost its NES-era monopoly to Sega. Because PSP owners still have to buy Memory Stick PRO Duo cards, which generally run more expensive than SD memory cards. And because there are more good DS-exclusive games than PSP-exclusive games.

It's bad enough that you're flashing a ROM, a procedure that's not famously fool-proof

And optional. If you don't want to use FlashMe, you can just keep the NoPass in SLOT-1. FlashMe just lets you keep a DS Game Card in SLOT-1 while you run homebrew.

but when you throw in the added risk of destroying your mobo after finding two pieces of specialized hardware, But then you're proclaiming the procedure "easier"?

"Destroying your mobo"? Isn't that what happened to the people who ran downgraders on TA-082 PSPs?

You've got some serious brass balls.

Are you confusing me with someone named Benoit? ;-)

Re:But are those really exclusive PSP advantages?

[LKM]

You only need a DS-X for DS homebrew.

It's super convenient, needs no hacking, and no tracking down of old DSs is required.

Re:But are those really exclusive PSP advantages?

[Total_Wimp]

Much nicer that the solution the other guy gave. Not the cheapest thing in the world at $125, but far more elegant.

TW

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[tepples]

To the grandparent, official development isn't even a possibilty on your own unless you've got 20,000 and a decent portfolio of some sort. :)

On which platform should one build the decent portfolio? Which handheld system sold in North America doesn't have a lockout chip? And then where does one get the 20,000?

I like the PSP

[Reapman]

Personally for those of us that like the idea of an all in one device, I think the PSP is great. I just picked one up about a month ago, and I wish I got it sooner. Yeah I like my DS... has some good games. But I'm not going to take my DS to work, on the train, etc etc.. I'll take my PSP, where I can watch movies (well not at work!) and listen to music as well. Yeah I know a lot of people like dedicated devices, a game unit, an MP3 Player, etc etc... but I like limiting what I carry around with me. And the PSP feels much more solid and well less kiddiesh then the DS.

Both have their place, but right now I'm really enjoying my PSP more then the DS... in fact my game library for DS is now about half what my PSP library is, and I've had a DS since almost day 1.

No more wind waker, please!

[Taulin]

Did I read that right? They are making a DS zelda like Wind Waker where you have to travel island to island? NOOOoOoooo!!!11!!

Re:No more wind waker, please!

[GammaKitsune]

It will likely be a lot of fun this time around, given that you won't have to adjust the wind constantly. Or so says TFA.

Doesn't matter

[oGMo]

Assuming since he posted here on slashdot and in English, he can also read English, which means that he can import the games if he wants: PSP games are region-free.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[ADRenalyn]

Buying a PSP with your main purpose not being to play games sounds like the dumbest idea ever.

I guess I'm the dumbest person ever.

I have 3 UMD games for my PSP, which I rarely play. My main reason for getting a PSP was to have a portable device that I can watch movies on, listen to music, look at (and share) my babies pictures, scan for wifi spots while traveling (without opening my briefcase and turning on my laptop), and to occasionally play some Lumines, GTA, or any of the free homebrew games that interest me.

Of course, I think the UMD format is a waste for movies, I just convert the ones I already have to MPG (PSP-compatible) and throw them on to one of my 1 or 2GB memory sticks, which are getting cheap these days. One of my sticks holds a collection of Family Guy episodes and other videos. Another has 2GB of music, and my third has a bunch of photos and videos of my baby girl. It's very quick and easy to swap them out.

Games may be all there is for some people, and maybe those people should buy a system that focuses solely on that. Personally, I don't like having a different device for everything, and the PSP is more than adequate for my non-gaming needs. If I want to play a game, I'd rather fire up one of my computers or consoles and immerse myself, instead of holding the system in my hand and moving the screen every time I hit a button.

Just my opinion, I don't think anyone is dumb for thinking otherwise.

After looking at that GPX2, I think it might be more of what I would want, since it has TV-out and can emulate old game systems. Too bad I never heard of it back when I made the decision to get a PSP.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Retron]

I keep tabs on the PSP homebrew seen every day,

You do? From your post it sounds like you stopped checking about this time last year...

The current "in thing" is to run a hacked version of the latest firmware, rather than last year's emulation of firmware on 1.5. Get a SNES emulator which uses the Media Engine for sound and you'll find most things run just fine, as does Sonic on the Mega Drive emulator that I tried last year.

The release of emulators has slowed a fair bit recently, granted, but that's because there's an emulator for pretty much everything out there already. Having said that, just two weeks ago a Commodore Plus/4 emulator was ported, much to my delight - that means I can play games from all of the previous consoles and home computers I've owned all on the PSP.

The latest firmwares come with a Playstation emulator which runs many NTSC games at full speed - originally it was locked to games downloaded from Sony's online store, but it's been hacked and with custom firmware you can run a heck of a lot on it.

As for the MP3 comment, I use my PSP in the car for a weekly journey that takes around 4 and a half hours. And you know what? With the screen turned off and the power switch set to "hold" I still have 70% or so battery life left when I get home. I've not yet tested to see how much I can squeeze out of it, but it should be at least 12 hours of MP3s on a full charge.

No credibility...

[PhotoBoy]

They said "We hope it will be much better than the overrated Mario Kart DS.". Mario Kart DS cannot be overrated, it's awesome. There's no way Diddy Kong Racing can beat it, despite the N64 Diddy being a classic.

Re:No credibility...

[Milican]

I second that. I have six games for my DS and overall Mario Kart DS is hands down the most fun to play. The multiplayer over WiFi and even over the Internet have me playing this game over and over.

JOhn

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[reybrujo]

Some friends are trying to port Allegro, an amateur gaming library, to DS. I should be helping them as soon as I get the homebrew tools. You can use libnds (see general instructions for installing here). Unfortunately, Nintendo does not sell their SDK to single users, only to companies with a determined profile. You can learn more at Nintendo Software Development Support Group.

Re:I picked up a DS for my little one this Christm

[KDR_11k]

Use a PC to build your portfolio. You have to prove you're a serious developer, not that you have experience with handhelds. Though I think Nintendo requires you to have a proper company and at that point you don't need to have anything released, you just need to show them that you can keep trade secrets (their primary requirement AFAIK).

DS is still missing the Killer App

[XxtraLarGe]

The one game that would make me buy a DS so fast it would make heads spin is Civilization. Probably Civ 2 is best suited for conversion. In the mean time, I'll enjoy the Game Boy micro I just bought for $50 :-)

Re:DS is still missing the Killer App

[code-e255]

You'd maybe like Advance Wars DS, or the upcoming Panzer Tactics, if it'll end up being good.

I'm VERY tempted to buy a DS just for Advance Wars DS, actually. I loved Advance Wars 2 on the GBA!

Re:DS is still missing the Killer App

[XxtraLarGe]

You'd maybe like Advance Wars DS, or the upcoming Panzer Tactics, if it'll end up being good.

I loved the original Advance Wars, a brilliant game for a hand-held system! Panzer Tactics looks cool, but those games still miss out on science & economic stuff.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they don't add another joystick. Namely because the one that's there now SUCKS. I'm okay with the whole "nub" thing - that doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that the control input readings aren't anywhere close to smooth. Go into the XMB, start the web browser, and try slowly winding the nub in a circle. Watch as your cursor moves in something approximating a trapezoid. Now, try to do it without touching the edges (IE - use the nub like you were trying to walk instead of run). You can't, because it's way too insensitive.

Sony needs to overhaul it before cloning it.

Re:Forget the MMORPGs

[steveo777]

Though your comment is strange and disturbing, I'd like to point out that there is supposedly a Silent Hill (Origins?) in development for the PSP (also disturbing). Though as I understand it, it may just be some movies and comics about how the whole debacle got started, and not actually be a game. I don't have a link because I'm at work.

Re:Sales Double for Zune?

[trdrstv]

I heard Microsoft is going to double the number of Zunes it sells in 2007, compared to 2006. There's no way Apple can beat that!

This means that not only did Tyco from Penny Arcade get one, he convinced Gabe to get one to!

Not WoW, more Puzzle Pirates

[PhoenixOne]

I can't see many people playing WoW on a small little handheld device like the DS or PSP (that's why we have laptops ;)). But I can see Puzzle Pirates being a big hit on the DS. If you reduced the interface a bit, even Spore might make a great handheld MMO.

You're right, my research sucks

[DoctaWatson]

I was mistakenly referring to this preview, specifically the part about how half of the Japanese script was cut for its original localization and that most of that will be coming back. So not they're not really doing a retranslation so much as bringing back previously unseen dialogue.

But does more than one exist?

[tepples]

Atomic Bomberman?

Is it still sold after ten years, or is it out of print? And where are the sequels? And where are the other titles designed for four USB joypads connected to one home theater PC?

Re: DS and PSP stats.

[trdrstv]

To say the Japanese prefer the DS by a 4 to 1 margin says absolutely nothing about American and European preferences.

Part of the reasoning though is that Japan is vitally important as many of the major development studios are Japanese. This implies that if the DS is MUCH more popular in 'the back yard' of these studios, then the DS will get more developmental support from them. If you enjoy games from these studios, it's especially important.

Another stat cited is that no only does the DS have more units sold, it has a higher software attach rate making development for that platform even more attractive.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[PeelBoy]

If they're selling the system for a loss or breaking even and not selling enough games to make up for that loss then homebrew is not exactly helping the situation.

Besides you can homebrew on a DS for half the price and on top of that you actually have some good games to play and decent battery life.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[PeelBoy]

I'd say 4 to 1 was pretty accurate. Take a look at the last few weeks of Japans sales numbers. The new ones should be in tomorrow.

For the year (up to Dec 24th) the DS Light sold 7,247,105 in Japan and the PSP sold 1,780,498

That's just the DS Light. There are nearly 1,000,000 DS sales in that time too which pushes the total to well over 8,000,000 for the year.

These numbers are insane. Click the link for the full set of numbers for that week.

December 18 - December 24: http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7379
DSL - 485,584 (Year: 7,247,105)
PSP - 138,588 (Year: 1,780,498)

December 11 - December 17: http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7371
DSL - 319,708 (Year: 6,761,521)
SP - 48,962 (Year: 1,641,910)

December 04 - December 10: http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7347
DSL - 309,630 (Year: 6,441,813)
PSP - 28,930 (Year: 1,592,948)

November 27 - December 03: http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7314
DSL - 176,901 (Year: 6,132,183)
PSP - 23,917 (Year: 1,564,018)

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[PeelBoy]

So you want us to quote American numbers? You do realize that the DS has taken over here too? The PSP is going nowhere fast.

The reason I personally like to quote Japanese numbers is because:

1) they are accurate
2) they are released on a weekly basis
3) like it or not Japan has a lot of sway on American gaming.

You are, after all, a SONY fanboy are you not? Most of the games people enjoy playing on the PS2 are developed and popularized in Japan first.

NPD only does numbers in America about once a month and they are not close to accurate. They don't get numbers from every retailer. They're crap compared to the way the Japanese do their numbers. Trust me.

The last numbers I saw by NPD were for the month of November and in that month the DS sold about 900,000 consoles compared to about 400,000 PSP's and that trend has been going on for three-four or so months before that and only getting worse for the PSP. On top of that the PSP almost never has games in the top 10-20 in the American sales (very few anyway). The DS does. Not a lot but a lot more than the PSP. The DS is selling A LOT more games. Not just in Japan but America and the rest of the world.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Jarlsberg]

This is exactly how I use my PSP. :)

I have an extensive collection of UMD movies. They can be gotten real cheap now, so there's no reason not to buy them (about $6 per movie).

I haven't really been impressed with the games output. I got Wipeout and Lumines with the console, and have tried a few others, but for the longest time, games for the PSP was boring stuff. Then along came Vice City Stories... :)

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Total_Wimp]

Fanboy? I guess you'd have to define the word. I have a PS2, a PS3 and a PSP and I like them all quite a lot. But I don't thing that's enough to be considered a "fanboy". Maybe it would be easier to tell you what I don't do that I often attribute to "fanboys". I don't mod stuff down simply because I disagree with it. I don't call the competitor's equipment and games "crap" if they're not to my taste, but otherwise high quality. I don't judge other equipment and games unless I've actually played them or something similar, and I clearly note it if it's the latter

Probably most importantly, I don't ignore the fact that others are having fun with competing equipment and I'm not afraid to mention the flaws I see in my own. I also don't try to make up how my flaws are actually virtues or find a single flaw with the competition and then declare it to be unfit to use.

I've seen this behavior in quite a lot of people who'd I'd label "fanboys". Curiously, I see these traits far more often in Apple and Nintendo supporters and less often in Linux, Microsoft and Sony supporters. I'm not sure why.

The guy in the great grandparent quote was talking about general popularity and then threw in Japanese popularity as "proof". It's a valid criticism to point out that that's misleading and popularity in Japan says little about popularity in the US. You went ahead and gave some reasons why quoting Japanese figures still has some validity.

I consider this all to be reasonable discussion, but notice that I got modded down for my part of it. That's what I consider to be fanboy activity. Someone out there was so unhappy that I was not boosting his favorite product, that he's actually trying to shut me up. I might chock this down to some kind of rogue modder, but sadly this has happened to me three or four times over the last week when speaking on this subject and about 25% of any posts that disagrees with a Mac feature also get this fate. Interestingly, I never get this if I find fault with Microsoft, Sony or Linux equipment or software.

About the NPD numbers. In addition to the November numbers you cited, NPD also reported these numbers as found on Joystiq.com. If this is accurate, the DS has sold 7.6 million and the PSP has sold 5.7 million from launch through Nov 1, 2006. Especially when you consider the DS got a 5 month head start, this data shows the PSP has been nicely competitive in the US.

I can't tell you if the DS is pulling ahead in November, the PSP is falling behind, or even if November is a blip that will reverse itself. I can tell you that the install base of PSPs vs DSs shows that about 43% of next-gen console buyers in the US have chosen to be PSP owners and presumably they knew of the DSs existence when they made that choice.

I can also tell you that citing 4 to 1 Japanese sales figures as an example of handheld preferences is an amazing distortion of the US facts. My guess is that no matter how accurate the numbers are for Japan, US DS fans would almost never quote them if the situation was reversed. They would point out, as I have, that it doesn't reflect the US market.

If you're interested in saying the DS is "winning" overall, then go for it. I'm sure Nintendo stockholders are quite happy with that news. But if you want to use those numbers to say that people like the DS better than the PSP, you might want to keep in mind that in the US, that's not a very big preference.

TW

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[PeelBoy]

I did have a questionmark at the end of that question or did you not notice.

What I said was there is a trend starting. Total sales the DS and PSP are fairly close in sales in America but the DS STILL has a huge lead in games LIKE IT OR NOT.

The trend I was talking about has been going on for the past few months and it shows that the DS has been selling more and more units over the PSP every month with last month giving the DS far more than twice the sales and many times the game sales.

That my friend is a growing trend.

Look at the world wide numbers and it isn't even close. The PSP is not even freaking close to the DS.

By the way this is the WORLD WIDE WEB if you don't like it go back to logging on to your local BBS.

We aren't all Americans here and American sales ARE NOT the only ones that matter not even to Americans.

And also you just confirmed that you are indeed a Sony fanboy. Thanks, thats exactly what I wanted to know.

Now which games do you like? Wanna be they were developed in Japan by the Japanese? Shipped in Japan before America? Popularized by Japanese?

And you're going to sit there and tell me Japan doesn't matter?

You're a grade A blind fanboy my friend.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Total_Wimp]

By the way this is the WORLD WIDE WEB if you don't like it go back to logging on to your local BBS.

Sure, and I live on the world. And I speak worldese. And when manufacturers want to sell a product, they sell exactly the same product everywhere in the world, they start selling it everywhere at exactly the same time, and they expect exactly the same sales breakdown throughout the world. Everyone in the world has the same tastes, like anime, Chuck Norris films, peanut butter and jelly and, of course, sushi. Christianity and Shinto have uniform distribution and we all have both an emperor and a president.

Or you can just get real and admit that the Japanese and American markets are very different as a whole and you can admit that Slashdot has an overwhelmingly American readership.

This is reality. People are different. That's something to be celebrated, but also not to be ignored. People who sell stuff recognize this and do not expect big Chevy Suburban sales in Japan. The fact that I recognize this doesn't mean I'm jingoistic or exclusionary, just that I have a brain.

I wasn't amused when you started painting me as some kind of flag waving moron who doesn't care about the rest of the world. It's not what I wrote and it's flat out wrong. You're getting too personal with this. It's time for you to back off.

TW

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[LKM]

I've seen this behavior in quite a lot of people who'd I'd label "fanboys". Curiously, I see these traits far more often in Apple and Nintendo supporters and less often in Linux, Microsoft and Sony supporters. I'm not sure why.

You don't recognize a negative trait in yourself, only in others? I'm flabbergasted!

And yes, the japanese numbers are relevant because:

• Japan is one of the big three areas (although the smallest behind US and Europe)
• Good sales numbers in Japan mean important games like Dragon Quest and FF are coming to a console
• These numbers are correct

Besides, the difference between the DS and the PSP is so huge in Japan, it's almost impossible for Sony to make up for it in other areas, and, well, they aren't.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[LKM]

Then along came Vice City Stories...

...and it was uncontrollable with only one analog nub. In case you can't tell, I use my PSP to watch Lost episodes.

Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time

[LKM]

Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time isn't so much an RPG as it is an adventure. It's more Zelda than anything else. However, it is an awesome game, and you really should check it out. It's for our own good, mate :-)

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Jarlsberg]

Learn the control scheme. Its hardly uncontrollable, and you're missing out on a great game if you won't bother spending a few minutes learning how to play it.

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[Total_Wimp]

Great link. Could save a lot on breath of /. if it got out more widely.

For clarification, I NEVER said Japan sales don't matter in a general sense, especially if you happen to be a Nintendo or Sony stockholder. That said, the aren't any kind of indicator of which console is more popular in America and for that specific purpose, they don't matter at all.

Unfortunately, lots of folks don't seem to get that. They talk to a largely American audience and wave those numbers around as "proof" of how much more "popular" the DS is.

"But wait," you might be saying to yourself," what if they really are trying to prove general popularity? Aren't the numbers useful then?" Well, no, they're not. If that was the point, don't you think they'd use worldwide sales figures instead of Japanese sales figures? The truth is, they skip by the worldwide numbers altogether because the Japanese numbers are so much more impressive.

Now some people, like yourself, try to point out that since the consoles and quite a large number of the game developers come from Japan that the Japanese numbers have unique relevance. Too true. If that was the point these other people were making, I would have no problem with it. But all too often it's not.

Bottom line: Japan sales figures don't matter one little bit when gaging American popularity, but they do matter quite a reasonable amount for several other important reasons. Every time I see the someone try to misuse the figures to insinuate the DS is either more popular generally or especially if they insinuate the numbers have any relevance to popularity in the US, I'm gonna call them on it.

TW

Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.

[LKM]

Trust me, I played it more than a few minutes. Shooting is just broken (it's already quite broken on the PS2 version compared to the PC version, but at least it's acceptable), and normal fighting barely works.