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The Power of the Hacking Community
narramissic writes "In the world of business software, vendors routinely offer tools to help developers customize applications. Not so in the consumer space, where TiVo and Xbox are notable exceptions. This article offers and interesting look at what companies have to gain — and lose — by embracing the hacker community. From the article: 'One example is TiVo Inc., founded in 1997 to develop digital video technology that allows users to record TV shows. TiVo, based on Linux, is an extensible platform, and from its early days the company welcomed hackers and professional developers. "When we first came out no one knew what DVR was," said Richard Bullwinkle, vice president of products at entertainment networking company Mediabolic Inc., and formerly a senior member of TiVo's product marketing team. "So we made it hacker friendly."'"
Much like the modding community with Videogames, if you produce an excellent product that is highly 'hackable' you will benefit from higher sales based off of free work others have done for you; at the same time though, if you produce an average or bad product that is highly 'hackable' few people will notice it ever existed.
Basically, make your product good first then worry about whether you want people to modify it or not.
...to bring you free porn. Isn't that what really drives Linux and OSS ?
"When we first came out no one knew what DVR was.... So we made it hacker friendly."
Basically, they aimed it squarely at the "early adopter" segment so that they would spread the word.
I'm trying my best not to sound like a Microsoft hater, but the summary/article makes it sound like Microsoft embraces the hacking community with open arms. In the article, reference is made to XNA, which is a framework Microsoft released that allows developers to create games for Windows and the Xbox 360. However, in order to develop for the 360, you need to pay to subscribe to their "XNA Creators Club". XNA also comes with a bunch of restrictions pertaining to the distribution of games created with it.
I don't really see this as "hacking" compared to all the independent work that's been done on the original Xbox. There, you see things like Xbox Media Center, which is something I would consider a cool and useful hack, made by a community of like-minded hobbyists.
The Tivo part of the article was a much better example of the power of the hacking community.
+1 Agree -1 Disagree
"Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a brand new consumer electronics must-have out of this hat!"
"Aw, that trick never works!"
*ROOOOAR!*
"I gotta get a new hat!"
Sony Corp. has been too strict about preventing users from playing around with hacks into products like the PlayStation Portable, Bullwinkle and other panelists agreed. Even though the PSP modding community has had to fight Sony every step of the way, they've still been able to do some pretty cool things. COuld you imagine what might have happened if they actually had been able to just do what they wanted, or even been encouraged by Sony? There might actually be a reason for someone to buy one of them.
Say a company created a console with the sole intent of KNOWING people were going to hack it. I can udnerstand the companies wanting to prevent people from playing downloaded ISO's, but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm refering to the Xbox DVR or Linux Box, things like that.
If word gets out into the hacking community that the new Gametron 3000 is designed in such a way to ENCOURAGE people to muck with the innards...well, it might do something good.
Take the PS3 for example. Nearly every discussion on the PS3 has the fact that linux is easily loaded to it popping up. It's a shame there is so much negative thinking about the system...in fact, in retrospect, the PS2 was rather simple as well.
HDAdvance + Network Adapter + 200 gig hard drive = fun. Add in a flip top, and it's even more fun. (Altho sony seemed to learn from that mistake by making a slot-loading mechanism this time)
Something that I find to be funny, and something I have noticed few people think about: a PC or laptop is basically a tool that is sold that encourages people to fuck with it...it's a blank slate, a universal tool to be done with whatever someone wants. No restrictions, no nothing (unless of course you are trying to overclock most brand name computers).
Interesting to think about things like that...
Living With a Nerd
No one these days considers hacking a legitimate business concern or strategy. If one did, then aside from defining a broad and inefficient standard of what hacking consists of, a guy would certainly run his budget dry trying to either patch every known issue or simply become consumable fodder for his competition. What we need is less of the Kevin Mitnik ideals and more of the "let me introduce you to PMITA prison if you break the law". Jus sayin...
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Steve Jobs needs to read this. Anyone here have his email address?
I think another important aspect in this... and keeping with the TiVo/Xbox theme. TiVo embrased the hacking community, they made their product hackable, and that gained TiVo a lot of respect from the hackers. So while TiVo makes some money from the fact that you have to buy a subscription to their TV listings the hacking community has pretty much ignored trying to screw over TiVo by circumventing the paying for the service. TiVo is happy, and the hackers are happy and the consumer gets a powerful and customizable product.
On the Xbox, the Xbox Linux people pushed and asked nicely for an official distro so they could customize the box. Microsoft refused and as a result the security holes were all blown way out into the open. MS didn't embrace the hacking community, they resisted it and as a result not only is their product hacked it's also insecure and allows games to be pirated very easily. The hacking community satisfied themselves regardless of MS's blessing, and MS isn't happy because their console has been exploited. I'm sure customers would also be more satisfied with the Xbox if it allowed some of the hacked features to be available legally as well.
The moral of the story: Hackers will get their way regardless, if you resist them you'll only end up disappointed, but if you embrace them you might wind up with a superior product and it's not like you'd be loosing anything because your sh*t would get hacked regardless of your choice.
Collector's Edition
Helping find hacks is now a real thing. People can now get paid, too. By making it hackable, they can get the knowledge without having to pay big bucks. It allows for flexability, and both the companies and hackers can fix it far more easily. I approve!
you sux0r
The computer industry learned this lesson long ago with the Apple ][ and IBM PC. Everything was documented - even the source to the BIOS was available. This allowed for 3rd parties to easily create software and hardware for them. People bought the machines and then all the add ons. Somewhere along the way, this lesson was completely forgotten. The various gaming consoles and the Apple iPhone being perfect examples.
Irobot just recently released their newest product called the Create. Essentially it is a stripped down Rhoomba created for the sole purpose of building off of it. A blank slate if you will to do whatever you want to with it. Now mind you this came out after four different generations of robots but it seems like an acceptance by a company that people want to hack them and that they could sell something solely for that purpose.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
The entire point of the GPL is that hackers can modify and replace GPLed software. Tivo's hardware refuses to run modified Linux kernels, ignoring the intent of the the license they agreed to. It may be legal, but it's not morally right, and it certainly is the opposite of "embracing the hacker community." That same community that gave them the operating system they built upon. It's an insult.
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A very timely posting.
I was very excited yesterday when I heard the news of the Apple iPhone. At last! A phone I can actually control, a have my own software running on! I can integrate into voice mail and SMS!
Not to be. Apple have, perhaps, given in to the airtime providers who want to lock us into old, expensive ways of working. While "Ring Tones" is a multi billion dollar business our mobile phones are going to remain retarded.
I wonder if some one will create a phone that frees us from these chains, and then shows an advert in the superbowl of a 1984 style advert... like, er, Apple?
What a pity.
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But that trick never works.
"If they made things easy to use they might make a lot more money on it,"
What kind of new age, communist blather is this? I think Sony has a good handle on what their consumers want from their electronics. Ease of use? Please...
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." -Isaac Asimov
When I think of the earliest consumer electronics, I think of TVs and vacuum-tube radios, both of which have high-voltage components. Take the case off either, and a stray touch with a screwdriver can have "electrifying" results.
I'm guessing that the culture of closed consumer electronics systems started with early fears of liability if people tried to modify their electronics. Not that that stopped anybody (myself included).
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
While it's great that Sony allows Linux to run, it does so without GPU support. This is a fairly major blow to anyone considering writing games for the thing - enough of a blow that I think PS3 Linux will end up being as exciting as PS2 Linux was (which is to say "not very exciting at all"). Sure there will be media players and what not, but without some tools (and GPU support) from Sony there's not going to be a lot of great games. And that's kind of a bad sign for a console.
In the other corner, I think MS is serious about getting developers producing actual games for the 360. I recognize it's not ideal at this point, but it's off to the right start. From the XNA FAQ: "We are actively working on other ways to allow you to more easily distribute your games and are very excited about the possibilities this will open up for independent game development." Looking at the thought that went into the XNA stuff I've tried, I think they're serious about this.
And that's the other part: the tools. XNA Game Studio is actually easy enough to use that I think people are really going to do something with it, something that could become big. If they solve the distribution problem, small developers could have access to a large audience with consistent, solid hardware in their living rooms. And they can do development without investing too much on tools/getting-started.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
The Linksys WRT54G is an excellent example of what could be gained by making your products "hacker-friendly" (for the original, "good" meaning of hacker).
Contrast the iOpener, which was a little web terminal sold at a loss with the plan of recouping the cost by selling service subscriptions. But rather than following the cellphone model, where the hardware is only discounted if you sign up for service, they just trusted that nobody would buy the hardware without also buying service.
:)
When hackers realized it was a generic PC and started buying them en masse, iOpener responded by smearing glue on the circuit board, changing the BIOS, and generally sticking their head in the sand. Linksys got it right with the WRT54GL: sell the good hardware directly to hackers at a fair price.
Today, iOpener is but a sad little footnote in the annals of hardware-hacker history, while the WRT54G(L) is riding high.
Every once in a while, I get angry at hackers who aim to make Xbox or PSP hardware more useful by imbuing it with software that doesn't suck. "Why would you aid the enemy by embracing their hacker-hostile business?", I agonize. Then I remember that those game systems are sold at a loss. Awesome.
The computer industry learned this lesson long ago with the Apple ][ and IBM PC. Everything was documented - even the source to the BIOS was available. This allowed for 3rd parties to easily create software and hardware for them.
In particular, they learned it anew when Apple follwed the open Apple ][ with the closed Lisa and initially-closed MAC, at which poiont IBM's very-open PC and the clone army took over most of the market.
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One of the interesting hackable Linux-based products on the European market (available in America, too, but only as a sat receiver version) is the Dreambox family of digital set-top boxes and PVRs.
Dreamboxes are DVB set-top boxes that can, depending on the model, ...
...and record the MPEG-2 Transport Stream data either to an internal HDD, or to a network share (NFS, CIFS), without restrictions. The better models have two tuners, so you can record from two MUXes simultaneously. The firmware images are Linux-based and typically have a web interface, telnet server, ssh server, busybox shell, samba server, etc. There are various unofficial, enhanced firmware images for the various Dreambox models - with user-written plugins, etc. - and a thriving (if a bit too diverse and decentralized) user community.
The manufacturer (Dream Multimedia GmbH) is supportive of unofficial development. (Hackability is one of the main selling points of their whole set-top box product range.)
In case you didn't know Tivo is at least one of the parties to blame for starting a GPL V3 by creating a novel way to simultaneously privatize a Linux-based OS and keep it out of the hands of hackers. It's called tivoization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization and it's a novel form of theft.
The summary is propaganda at best.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Uh, huh. Please keep all of that in mind next time slashdot has a GPL vs BSD flamewar.
One reason Microsoft got soooo big was they made it easy to get the Windows+DirectX+whatever-else SDK and didn't charge use the usual license fees or royalties that the (commercially unsuccessful) vendors did. This is one difference between Jobs and Gates.
This guys name is really Dick Bullwinkle? I'm never gonna stop laughing...
Peter H. PCH Linux Systems Inc.
So how often do Dell and Microsoft get calls because some script kiddie broke someone else's computer?
I run XBMC on my XBOX - bought for thatpurpose - and hacked two more as holiday gifts for friends, both with XBMC. I and they do run some XBOX games on them but the primary purpose for me is media. In fact I will be modding another soon for my other TV.
The XBOX360 is interesting but until it's hacked to run 3rd party unsigned code I won't be buying one. Media Extender crap won't cut it and I know Microsoft will never release features like XBMC has. I could care less about pirating games for it - which can be done now - I want a decent media center running on it. When that's available I'll buy one but not before... Oh, XNA need not apply IMO as Microsoft would freak if it could play say ripped DVDs etc.
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They make it sound like TIVO offers some huge help for hackers. In the beginning I'm pretty sure some arm twisting had to be done to even get them to post the changes they made to source per the GPL requirement. Even if that's not true look at what we have today - S2.5 boxes and S3 boxes. The S2.5 requires a hardware mod to the SMT PROM in order to modify the software signatures so modified kernels can be run. The S3, last I checked Dealdatabase, has yet to be hacked! Why? Because they have seriously locked it down having learned from previous attempts and IMO that sux. I have a DTIVO, which was originally crippled, but is losing favor with my provider. I'd REALLY like an S3 - cost be damned - but it cannot be hacked or at least hasn't yet. The only reason source was ever provided was because they were REQUIRED by the GPL to do so.
I understand that TIVO is being required by the media producers to lobotomize some of the features out of their box. However making it nearly impossible for folks to get in there and put them back is crap. That this article portrays them in any other light is bullshit, TIVO is *not* friendly.
I'd really not ever thought too much about GPL3 until I learned about it's provisions to prevent "TIVOization" of hardware. Now that I understand what it is they're trying to stop I'm all for it. Let the TIVO people of the world burn. If they want to piggyback on other's work then they should not only have to share their mods as source but not be allowed to lock the hardware from other's mods. Don't like it? Then write or buy your own OS and absorb the development costs...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
The WRT54G and GS were NOT "hacker friendly". Do a little reading - when those boxes came out Linksys didn't say Boo about themrunning Linux. It wasn't until someone downloaded one of their firmware "updates" that they figured out it was a compressed Linux Distro! Afterwards all hell broke loose as Linksys tried to NOT honor the GPL. In the end they were not only forced to honor the GPL for the WRT54 but for several other devices too once folks started looking HARD at their firmware.
The new WRT54 boxes run another OS entirely and have less powerful hardware and less memory. Nevertheless the folks at DD-WRT have figured out how to load up Linux and get greater functionality from it - tip them please! While you're at it smack Sveasoft for dodging the GPL - grr!
Anyway, Linksys did NOT embrace the hackling community at all. They do now offer a Linux friendly WRT54 but only because people bitched when they switched to the new hardware and different OS. Try finding one of those at the local BestBuy..... The source mods are only up for their firmware becasue they were forced to do so. They did go a bit further than required and also provide a toolchain as I recall but not without arm twisting. TIVO is just as bad....
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
A little story... I went down to Circuit City to buy one of those but they were out of stock. I paid for it anyway and used my credit card. Weeks went by and I got a letter in the mail from IOpener that stated that they had AMENEDED their licensing. I could "still purchase" their device but that if I did so and didn't sign up for their service in X days my CREDIT CARD would be billed something like $350!
Now, HOW did they get my ADDRESS? HOW did they get my CREDIT CARD number? Why it seems that Circuit City was only more than willing to provide them with my address at least and apparently my CREDIT CARD information. I called and wrote Circuit City about this and never received any sort of satisfactory answer - only form letters.
Guess which consumer electronics store I have not spent a dime in in something like 10 years? Yup, Circuit City and all because those pricks handed over information to the IOpener people. I wish like hell I had paid cash that day but the new had just broken and i was damned excited to run out and get one - grr!
P.S. An even odder footnote. When I went to that CC store it was one I hadn't been tobefore but somehow whenI gave them my phone number they had my address. Turns out that YEARS before a family member who no longer lived in my home had bought something there and they had retained that information in their computers all that time. THAT sent a chill down my spine too.....
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
"When we first came out no one knew what DVR was," said Richard Bullwinkle
Then I have no idea what my ReplayTV is, why I keep using it or even what I am using it for... ungh...
Can I re-invent the wheel too?
Maybe I'll just make it look different and give it a new spiffy name.
Q: What's a TiVo?
A: Its like a ReplayTV.
Oh, OK!
Let the first guy get sued into oblivion and then I'll get my chance to claim it all for myself.
My life for you!
bumpity, bump, bump...
Its true...companies can benefit...look at the ever-so-hackable WRT54G and GL Linksys released another version that supported being hacked...they made a lot of money from "hackers" Alll tho they have lost money on other hacks such as the Linksys PAP2 which sells for next to nothing...this is costing Vonage more than its costing Linksys but you get the point
And if you make hackable hardware and _don't_ embrace the hacker community, you can share all the success of the ahref=http://fastolfe.net/2006/iopener/faqrel=url2 html-21081http://fastolfe.net/2006/iopener/faq> I-Opener
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
When TI started putting out graphing calculators, especially the TI-82 and TI-85, they were a relatively closed platform. They had a BASIC dialect for writing programs in, but it was essentially useless for writing anything longer than the quadratic formula. When you can only see seven lines of code, and you only have one letter variables and no comments, it's not exactly aimed at structured programming. They ran on Z80 processors, had a decent amount of RAM, and everything else... but no one could figure out how to run assembled programs. Eventually people spent way too much time with the TI-85 and were able to hack up a BASIC program that would basically overwrite memory containing an address to jump to, so they could load an arbitrary program. They did the same with the TI-82, eventually, and the TI calculator assembly world was born. TI apparently thought it was a great idea, because when they made the TI-83 and 86, the successors to the 82 and 85, they had a command called Asm(), which took a program file that was an assembly program, and ran it. Of course, they didn't support it, but they sure made it a hell of a lot easier. Some of my first memories of using the internet were to download reams and reams of z80 assembly tutorials and source. It really gets you thinking, when there's long winded debates about the best integer multiplication routine to use.
I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
Years ago, when the IOpener first came out, I was moving into a new place. I ordered two of the devices, hoping one of them would be suitable for my parents (and planning on hacking the other one). As I didn't yet have home network yet (installations were slow in those days), but I did have a phone line, I signed up for the IOpener network service, tried it out, and after a short while cancelled it. They weren't terribly happy, but I did manage to cancel the service without too much trouble.
Then, about 3 months later, the service charges appeared on my credit card again. I called the CC company to contest the charges, and had oddly little trouble -- they sent me a letter to fill out, but reversed the charges immediately. I called the contact numberon the CC charge to see if I could figure out what happened, and it never answered, regardless of day of week, time of day, etc. I called the CC company again, and this time spoke to an agent of some sort. He told me that they had had so many compaints about that company that he had been assigned to handle just those issues, that no one could contact the company, and that they had given up trying to get the charges to stop coming in -- instead they just issued new card numbers to everyone who had a complaint about that company.
A few weeks later I had a new card. I never let the devices anywhere near my parents.