The Twilight Years of Cap'n Crunch

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Tech pioneer John Draper, a legendary, eccentric figure in Silicon Valley better known as Cap'n Crunch, has slipped to the margins while his peers became rich, the Wall Street Journal writes in a profile. Draper was a 'phone phreak' and helped develop the technology for word processing and voice-activated telephone menus; meanwhile, he eluded the mainstream by tampering with the phone system, frequenting the rave scene and shouting at anyone smoking anywhere near him. 'Once tolerated, even embraced, for his eccentricities, Mr. Draper now lives on the margins of this affluent world, still striving to carve out a role in the business mainstream,' says the WSJ. More from the article: 'Contemporaries who've gone on to riches and fame say they've tried to help Mr. Draper over the years. Mr. Wozniak says Mr. Draper's problem is that his skills lie in technology rather in making business deals or starting a company. "He didn't come from a business orientation," says Mr. Wozniak.'"

Comments

Wow

[baldass_newbie]

When Woz is saying you don't have business skillz, that's something.
Seriously, the phrase for this 'Emotional Intelligence' and it's in short supply for most geeks/nerds/etc.

Re:Wow

[jellomizer]

Well Woz does have business skills. He is able to keep a job, maintain organizations, work well with people. He just doesn't like the remote aspect of upper management he just wanted to be an engineer. Compared to others like "Cap'n Crunch" and many other geeks they think just because they are smart that people will want to keep them. You can be the smartest person in the world but you will not be able to keep a job if you smell like 2 week old dead fish, and people feel you will at any one time snap.

Re:Wow

[tgibbs]

Now, something that you probably don't know, is that when he was in jail, he got beaten severely because he refused to tell the mob how to make blue boxes. He has severe back problems to this day because of it. That's hardly the choice that would be made by someone who thinks none of the rules apply to him.

It's the kind of choice that would be made by somebody who believes in principles rather than rules.

Re:Wow

[JoshJ]

If more people believed in principles rather than rules, the world would be a better place.

Re:Wow

[rblancarte]

These are basic interpersonal skills, not business skills.

I think Woz was just being nice, or diplomatic. I read the blurb and then the article, the whole time thinking the same thing - this is something that a lot of people should learn from. I think you hit the nail right on the head M-GW.

After finishing up a CS program just last year, one of the biggest things I noticed was the major lack of social skills that many students had. There were many briliant students, but some of them just terrible at interpersonal interaction. I think the grandparent post is very right. Many brilliant computer types have this attitude about being so high and mighty they are irreplaceable. Hell, it was an article just last week.

Personally, I think that interpersonal skills are something that really should be worked on by the people themselves and also perhapse helped by educational facilities. Why not have CS programs teach a class(es) in interpersonal skills? Perhapse it will help guys like Crunch who are brilliant and have tons to contribute to find a place and realy make their mark. I think it is a shame that much of his brilliance has mostly gone on wasted.

RonB

Re:Wow

[tobi-azz]

Only if people believed in the _same_ principles. However, they don't, so we have rules.

Re:Wow

[tzanger]

If you were as allergic to tobacco as he is, you'd yell too. I remember seeing his hand break out once because an ashtray had been spilled on him. It took a couple of weeks for the blistering and peeling to clear up.

Then *he*, not everyone else, needs to stay away from tobacco. His right to exist must not infringe on my right to smoke in a designated area. I'm really sick of this kind of thinking... My kids love peanut butter sandwiches, but I can't take them to a public school because someone else's kid is anaphylactic and could get themselves killed by being around my kid. Instead of taking the 1 or 2 kids who are anaphylactic and putting them somewhere safe, we instead sanitize the entire school system, at great expense, and at marginal benefit... The same kid could go into shock or die because the bus driver has peanut butter on his breath, or the kid picked up a breakfast bar wrapper on the way to school.

I don't mind helping people out, but this is just too far. It's too much. I'm really, really sorry that he's got a severe reaction to tobacco, and I am genuinely sorry that some children are anaphylactic. I'm also sorry that some kids have leukemia and others have genetic disorders. I sincerely do wish that all children could be happy and healthy and robust, but reducing absolutely everything down to a common level to protect all the weak ones is bad for society on a whole.

Re:Wow

[paganizer]

"As smart as you are, there are other people out there just as smart, who are also able and willing to have more normal social contact with others, and they'll get chosen over you."

I know a lot of people like to tell themselves this sort of thing, but let me point out something that you really should know; not all people are created equal.
There are people out there who are the very best at what they do. Would we have Personal Computers, if it wasn't for Woz & Jobs? A lot of people say that we would, the time was right... but we did have Woz & Jobs, and if nothing else they established that someone can be the very best at being reasonably smart & lucky at the right time. and good luck trying to get a normal joe to paint a Mona lisa, scult a David, design a T34 etc.
Woz had interpersonal skills, that kept him from being a liability to the startup apple. But a lot of the upper-end-of-the-geekosphere types do NOT have interpersonal skills. they just don't. I've always thought it was a idiot savant thing, myself...

I know a few of these people, one is in my family. He has degrees in aerospace engineering & computer science; he wrote a interface driver in assembly for a ARM based device one of my old companies was having fits with in less than 2 hours, just given the detailed specs via e-mail; something that recent graduates had been working on for days, if not weeks. But he works Janitor type jobs, because he can't handle people bugging him all the time.

I'm sort of in a similar boat; I made it through my career & i'm now retired, but every day was a struggle... not to do the work, but to try and fit in & not screw up terribly on the interpersonal crap.
With the coming of the Dot.Com era, it got harder as more & more "normal" types (less smarts, better interpersonal skills) were rushing to get jobs in the tech industry, making it difficult for people who were merely good with technology to compete.
So, the workplaces lost the people able to do the work, the dropout Business Management majors who were now IT couldn't keep the technology rolling, and everything went to india.

SO, some company could right now have THE Cap'n Crunch on retainer, or working from home, but instead they probably have 3 guys who took CompSci because their highschool advisor told them they would make more money that way. Which do you honestly think would be likely to give the most return for their investment?

Re:Wow

[4D6963]

There's something you're forgetting. Peanut butter is harmful for a very few people. Tobacco is harmful to *everybody*.

Re:Wow

[Darth Liberus]

Unfortunately, I dunno if this is something you CAN teach. While I hesitate to say that these important interpersonal skills are something you are "born with". I would say that they are pretty well ingrained in you by the time you are a teen or maybe even earlier. I don't say you can't learn new things, but, with most people that have the skills....they are second nature and natural for them to use. I'd say it is kind of like being 'witty' and being able to come up with funny things instantly in conversation....a skill that often is a sign someone has exceptional interpersonal skills.

When I was 21 I decided that I was quite capable of learning everything I needed to know about IT on my own. I didn't want to become a typical techie with no social skills so I dropped my CIS classes and got a degree in English instead. When you have to get up and give presentations every week for two years straight talking to people becomes second nature... social skills aren't something you're "just born with", they are very definitely learned.

Not everyone can get a degree in English, but there are plenty of other opportunities to get out and learn how to interact with others. It's more a matter of being willing to take the risk and put yourself out there than any sort of inborn talent.

Re:Wow

[dangitman]

What's wrong with going to raves when you're 50? I know plenty of people older than that who go. It's good exercise, keeps you young. Or are "old people" (50 is not very old) just supposed to lead quiet boring lives?

Re:Wow

[redcane]

Yeah, but maybe he can do their jobs as well, better than them, both combined, and they should be fired instead. Society imposes a lot of things upon people. You can argue society benefits people as well (and it does if you play by the rules), but no-one asked to be born into this. I don't see a practical alternative, but I see a lot of people struggling to fit, and with basically no interest in fitting in.

Kinda Sad.

[jellomizer]

It is kinda sad to see a pioneer live the rest of his life in near poverity. But it also shows that in order to make it in the world you do need some ballance in your life. In order for society to respect you you must respect society. He bairly respected society and now society barly respects him.

Re:Kinda Sad.

[Peter Cooper]

That's a nice sentiment, but it's not really true. Look at Steve Jobs. He's not known for his respect to others.

I think I'd rewrite it to say.. in order for society to respect you, you must know how to manipulate society.

Re:Kinda Sad.

[radarsat1]

I think its a common and sad misconception to think that people with alternative lifestyles are "disrespecting society". Usually they have alternative lifestyles because "society" doesn't satisfy them.

To put it another way... they don't go out of their way to piss off society, it's just that society is so easily hurt, and they're not going to let that slow them down.

(caveat: sure, some people _do_ go out of their way to piss off society. Also, of course there are limits. And there are those who understand those limits and those who don't. I'm not making excuses here, but I think its a little unfair to say that people who don't choose to wear a tie and work 9-5 are "disrepecting society".)

Re:Kinda Sad.

[LWATCDR]

kind of sad but really his choice.
He has had and blown more money than most of us well ever have.
The man made trips to India for fun.
In many ways not that different than rock stars that blow all their money. Lots of good hard working people end up with problems not of their own making. Many of John Drapers problems where of his own making. How many times did he go to jail for freaking?
He wrote a word processing program he didn't cure smallpox or feed the poor.
I feel bad that he made so many bad choices but I am impressed by all the help and chances he gets.
A lot of people seem to really care about him and try to help him. How if he could just make some better choices.

Re:Kinda Sad.

[boyfaceddog]

Wow, that is such a load of Ameri-centric crap.

Here are some interesting bits of trivia you might wish to ponder.
1) Not everyone believes that the great Euopean-derived society is either correct 100% of the time or even basically ethical. These people do not care for western society's respect.
2) Contrary to what everyone in America thinks, having money does not prove you are better than other people. Witness Ms. Hilton, President Bush, and Mr. Gates as examples of this.

What is sad is that so many people look down their noses as someone who has contributed so much over the course of his life and ask for so little in return.

How Strange

[eldavojohn]

Mr. Wozniak says Mr. Draper's problem is that his skills lie in technology rather in making business deals or starting a company. "He didn't come from a business orientation," says Mr. Wozniak.

That's funny, "not coming from a business orientation" is pretty desirable when I'm looking for someone to talk to. I think Mr. Draper's real problems were that he picked the wrong friends when he was starting out & incurred legal fees he couldn't afford. If one of my friends was ever living in a vehicle, I'd be certain to lend a hand. Especially if I was some Apple hot shot. I guess my definition of "friend" differs from Mr. Wozniak's. A bright man under utilized in our society. And the article points out all of his problems. Although he made mistakes, I doubt his situation is entirely his fault. Another misunderstood engineer.

Re:How Strange

[jcr]

I think Mr. Draper's real problems were that he picked the wrong friends when he was starting out & incurred legal fees he couldn't afford.

Well, getting busted didn't help, either. After he called up Tricky Dick, the FBI didn't waste much time tracking him down.

-jcr

Re:How Strange

[Just Some Guy]

If one of my friends was ever living in a vehicle, I'd be certain to lend a hand.

Says you. Without personally knowing the people involved, you can't possibly say that. My best friend from childhood - more like a brother, really - has been homeless for well over a decade. I've gotten him three different jobs that he held for a couple weeks before not showing up one day. He's sane, inasmuch as he's acting rationally: he's not willing to invest the responsibility necessary to maintain a fixed living space. What more can I do to help him?

Maybe Woz tried to give Cap'n a hand up a few too many times and got tired of it. Again, without being personally involved in the relationship, you can't know.

Re:How Strange

[Just Some Guy]

See, you just proved my point. I've been doing everything I can to help him for over 15 years, but you write it off as shrugging my shoulders and walking away. Well, the truth is a lot more complex than that, and without knowing me and my friend, you have no means to evaluate your hypothesis.

Re:How Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

You're quite the judgemental, narrowminded asshole aren't you.

It's bad enough that the OP has a bum friend he is trying to help out without stupid know-it-alls like you railing on him because his friend is beyond redemption. I bet you're the kind of person who blames the families of alcoholics because they don't "do enough" to help.

Who the fuck have you helped?

Re:How Strange

[Darby]

That's not being a friend. If the help you're giving someone isn't working, try something new. There is always help for someone. I don't need to know you OR your friend - who I'm not even talking about - this is not deducing motives, but actions. Someone stopping helping their friend FOR ANY REASON is not being as good a friend as they can. Simple. It doesn't matter if one friend is Hitler and the other Mother Theresa - motives, feelings, pizza preference, whatever - it doesn't come into it :)

One of my brothers is probably in worse shape than Capn Crunch, since he doesn't even have any "skillz" at all.
He had every opportunity in the world to make something out of his life and he has consistently refused to do so.

There isn't one of us that he hasn't lived with and robbed.
He's been sent to rehab several times and prison several more.

This is all over a period of more than 20 years.

We have all tried many different things to help from simply providing money, food and a place to stay, to helping get him jobs, to paying for education, tutoring and the like.

So, while it's nice to believe that people can always be saved from themselves, I don't believe it.

Given 20 years of Meth addiction, his brain is well and truly fried. He, for the most part, can't even string together words into meaningful sentences.

If I were to invite him into my house, then I know full well that he would steal shit *whether he needed money or not*.
If I let him live there, it would only be a matter of time until I came home and found my wife beaten to a bloody pulp because *that's the sort of shit he does*. And goes to prison for. Repeatedly. With no concern for the consequences, or the fact that it's his own family he's destroying.

So, there is no way in hell his friends and family are going to be able to pull him out of this since he has no real interest in pulling himself out.

At some point, in some situations, your best course is to just let them make their own way for better or worse.

So, while I find your sentiment admirable, I also find it rather naive.

interesting

[nomadic]

I think the whole situation mirrors, at a larger scale, a common situation that occurred in the 90s. While computer careers opened up big time, just because you had technical skills you didn't necessarily end up in a well-paying job; through poor social skills, lousy geographical location, or just plain bad luck you might have missed the gravy train. I'm sure there are people here who are on one side or the other of a technical income divide; one guy might be making close to minimum wage at radio shack, while his friends, with similar backgrounds and expertise, become IT pros.

Re:Price of an interview

[YankeeInExile]

For what it's worth, I don't think his interest was overtly sexual -- but it was definitely ... eccentric.

Just leave him alone

[plopez]

That's probably what he wants. Just because he doesn't have a bazillion dollars doesn't mean he is a failure or pathetic. Just because he doesn't want to, or have the cut throat personality required to, make it in business does n't mean he is worthless. It sounds like Baker *did* have that cut-throat personality, does that make him better because he made more money.

I mean this is the WSJ, where the only thing that matters is money and once you get enough of it you are a demi-god who can do no wrong. Why do we worship the rich like this? It makes no sense.

I love this part:
"He set about preparing the meal -- obtained free from a Whole Foods worker who leaves outdated products near a dumpster at a prearranged time."

Now there's a guy who is smart, why pay for food when you can get it for free *and* keep perfectly good food from spoiling? Anyone paying retail for food is a sucker.

Nice qoute from Woz:
"But, actually, John is one of the happiest guys I know, no matter what his situation seems."

So just leave him alone.

Re:Price of an interview

[qwijibo]

He's definitely into young boys. When I met him, it was pretty obvious that he was a big pervert.

Even worse, he seemed like a total fake. He could take credit for things he picked up from other people, but didn't seem to be able to do himself the kinds of things he talked about. The thing that struck me as odd is how he didn't get how I was bouncing between machines at Netcom without using a password since they deleted any .rhosts files they found. I would think the mythical Crunch would realize that a script could create the file and .login could erase it a fraction of a second later.

Just a thought...

[aunticrist]

But could it be that he has Asperger's? http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.htm l It fits on many counts.

Not Exactly

[vtcodger]

***Well, there are people who like to think that they're smart enough that they don't have to pay any mind to "society's rules", that their extreme brilliance is all that they need. Geeks are notorious for that, although often unfairly stereotyped to the extremes. But in generally, things like "I'm going to wear t-shirts and sandals to business meetings, and they can go ahead and fire me if they don't like it" are basically symptoms of the same thing.***

In my experience, it isn't a matter of thinking that they are too smart to pay attention to "society's rules". It is a perception (more or less correct AFAICS) that anyone who thinks 'society's rules' are important is a either a fool, a knave, or both. The basic problem is a surely mistaken belief on the part of the eccentrics that people are really smart enough to see through phonies and demagouges. They believe that this time freedom, justice, and actual worth will triumph over superfical "values". Regretably Iprobably), it rarely works out that way, although it might well be a better, safer, and happier world if it did.

The first law of social dynamics: Never trust a man who owns and uses a blow drier.