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Extraterrestrials Probably Haven't Found Us - Yet
kasparn writes "The Guardian today has a story about the Danish astrophysicist Rasmus Bjoerk, who recently conducted simulations on how long it will take to colonize the Milky Way. The basic idea is to send out probes in different directions (including various heights above the galactic plane). He estimates that it will take some 10 billion years to explore 4 % of the Milky Way. Since the age of the Universe is of the same order, his conclusion is that aliens can't have had time required to find us yet."
We will be in a lot of trouble if the Cylons find us first.
Sheesh, talk about "proof by lack of imagination." This is supposed to answer the Fermi Paradox?
You can't explore a galaxy with a handful of probes. 72 probes??? First of all, if you're going to do it that way, you'd create hundreds of thousands of probes, if not millions of probes (mass production would reduce the cost). Second, you still probably wouldn't do it that way. You'd wait until you had the technology to make self-replicating probes, and the galaxy could potentially be explored in thousands of years.
Not impressed by this guy's argument.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Come on. 4% is a hell of a lot better than your odds of winning the lottery and that happens *everyday*.
Plus he's not taking into account multiple alien races. So that's like double 4% which is almost 8%. Do that a few hundred times and you get 108%. This guy clearly doesn't understand math.
Traveling at the speed of light, it would take a quarter million years to reach Andromeda. What's more is that if I went into statis now, the compound interest on my savings would pay for the journey.
Yeah, imagine a civilization that, having discovered enlightenment, actually embraced it and dedicated their industrial base to further it, instead of shuffling it off to the minor specialists who they then make beg for funding, typically by militarizing their research.
How we know is more important than what we know.
"If an alien race has had advanced technology for 100,000,000 Trillion years, then they'd have plenty of time (and would probably have technology more advanced then sending out physical "probes")."
when they show up, please ask them how they survived the big bang.
Psssh, enough of that hippie dudley do-right love and flowers attitude, that will get you nowhere in this life.
(That said, I totally agree with you.)
I am, therefore you think.
Also, assuming they use some kind of rocket technology (that is, technology that shoots stuff out one side to propel the vehicle in the other), 1/10 c is much more realistic than something approaching c. Assuming a technology that has 100 times the specific impulse as our current vehicles (the best ion thrusters get ~4500 s,) I get using the rocket equation that the initial mass to move 1 ton of cargo is:
.99 c: 1.534e292 tons
.99 c: 2.69 tons
.99 c results are off by thousands of orders of magnitude.
1/10 c: 3.263e29 tons
Even then this seems absolutely ridiculous. If you used a matter/antimatter reaction so that your propellant was pure electromagnetic radiation (thus your exit velocity is c), you'd get these results
1/10 c: 1.105 tons
Of course, these are not adjusted for relativity, since I don't know any simple equations to do that. I would imagine (as a wild-ass guess) that the 1/10 c estimates are close, but the
Basically all I'm saying is that 1/10 c seems fairly reasonable. It's not feasible given our current technology, but its within reason. If you start looking at things like space-time warpage, then we have no idea on any usage or capabilities, so any kind of theory based on it gets even further and further from reality.
By the way, I am a rocket scientist, but only a student, and not a physicist at all, only an interested amateur.
"photon-based probing methods"
You mean looking at stuff through a telescope?
The study in question does not even address the Fermi Paradox in any meaningful sense, much less "resolve" it. In fact, if this study is being offered as a resolution of the Fermi Paradox then it suggests the researcher does not understand why the Fermi Paradox is a paradox at all.
The fundamental difficulty with any explanation offered for the complete absence (so far) of any sign of other intelligent life in the universe is that the proposed explanation has to be universally valid.
The span of time for colonization, or dispersal of replicating probes, or of building vast telescopically detectable artifacts is so great that even one single exception from any proposed explanation would be capable of generating ubiquitous evidence in a tiny fraction of the life of the Universe.
Simply describing some model for exploration, and then arguing that this model won't do the job says nothing about other models. This study apparently does not consider the geometric growth that occurs with any exploration program that uses some form of replication of explorers, for example. If replication is thought to be impossible then the study would have the high hurdle of convincingly demonstrating this. (The material evidence of life on Earth seems to argue persuasively against it though.)
Arguments that "interstellar travel is impossible" would qualify for explaining why alien artifacts aren't being found locally (but do not address communication signals or telescopically detectable artifacts), but require convincing arguments that this is indeed true. On the contrary, physics does not seem to make this impossible at all, just very costly and slow. Too costly and slow for anyone to bother? Not even one single civilization?
The Fermi Paradox seems to be telling something important about the Universe. If only we knew what it is...
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj