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Dell Sells Open Source Computers
Lo5 writes with the excellent news that Dell is selling desktop computers without Windows preinstalled. They are called "n Series"; you can choose from Dimension E520, E521, or C521 desktops. The hard drive comes unformatted.
Dell has been doing this for a long time.
Apparently, the submitter and editor don't truly realize what "open source" is. Selling a PC without anything on it isn't open source; it's selling a computer with nothing on it. This isn't a move to support open source, it's a move to save money by not having to pay the MS tax.
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
Has anyone figured out how much cheaper these computers come than those with OEM Windows? Dell's pricing/models are so scattered I don't even know where to begin.
They have been doing this for some time. I have heard that Linux is known to port badly to these machines.
Shows how much Microsoft's monopoly is silently accepted when it's news that someone sells computers without Windows.
... and then they built the supercollider.
This is at least 1.5 years old, probably more.
I've been buying n-series in 2005.
Well, if your computer has no compiled code on it, then it's vacuously true to say that you have all the source code too.
What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
Note: Dell does not support non-Dell installed operating systems.
In short: "We won't even give you tech support for the FreeDOS that comes in the package. All we'll do is replace your hardware if it breaks."
Care about privacy? Read this!
You have the source code for your BIOS?
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Does a company the size of Dell really lack the expertise to port this "unformatted disk" technology to the entire line?
You have the source code for your BIOS?
When I used a genuine IBM PC back in the day, yes, IBM published the complete source code to BIOS. The listing was *the* API reference.
An ATI graphics card with proprietary drivers or an NVidia graphics card with proprietary drivers; what a choice.
Anyone notice that, during the configuration, all the banner ads, logos and "recommendations" all mention Vista? High-larious.
They've been doing this for years. News would be if "No OS" and "Linux" options were available for every system, and even more so for notebooks and the "Home" section. As it currently seems, however, this is not news.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
Note: Dell does not support non-Dell installed operating systems. In short: "We won't even give you tech support for the FreeDOS that comes in the package. All we'll do is replace your hardware if it breaks."
That sounds like support to me. They support what they assembled/installed. Dell support is not a uniform thing, it varies quite a bit from product to product and segment to segment. Give them more money, they will give you more support. Give them even more and they'll send someone to your home/office. Give them alot of money and they'll help you setup your enterprise with custom software and help you keep it running.
If you can demonstrate that you wrote a work independently of someone else, that person's copyright doesn't apply to you. I think you could rather easily demonstrate independent creation of an empty file. ;-)
RTFA... it ships with FreeDOS. Sounds like open source to me.
some of you might remember back six years ago:s _shipped_without/a rly_illegal/
how PCs shipped without Windows will destroy your life: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/11/23/ms_how_pc
it's (nearly) illegal to buy PCs without Windows: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/11/28/ms_its_ne
is there a web archive somewhere of http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/nakedPC.htm ??
Well, for the computer to be open source, you'd have to be able to access all the documents necessary to build all of its subcomponents. (And for the computer to be free as in speech, nothing in it could be patented.) The story shouldn't have called the computers open source, just the OS. ... or non-OS.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Dell's new open-source n Series desktop solution provides customers with a DimensionTM E520, E521 or C521 desktop without an installed or included Microsoft® operating system. With the n Series desktop, customers have the flexibility to install an alternative operating system (such as a version of Linux® ), and help reduce the price of this system. In addition, the n Series desktop comes with a non-formatted hard drive ready for your custom installation. Dell's n Series desktop ships with a copy of FreeDosTM , an open-source operating system that is ready to install. http://www.freedos.org/
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Companies like Dell are in a unique position to break the Windows monopoly. /et al/ have that clout. A simple decision - only use hardware for which full specs are available - would force the manufacturer's hands. The developers of xorg, linux, BSD etc would use that to produce full support, and everyone would have a real choice. The companies would not have to pay the MS tax, MS would have an incentive to actually make their products useable, DRM would take a heavy thwacking as people can choose not to have it.
The main problem Open Source developers are having is the near-impossibility of getting hardware documentation. The manufacturers are unwilling (which is something I do _not_ understand!), and we lack the marketing clout to force them.
Dell, Hp
Ah, a perfect world. Well, I can dream, can't I?
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
This is particular unrelated to Linux, especially since I'd wager a lot of money that Windows goes on 90% of these machines after they're sold. I may very buy some of these guys so I can use my "old" Windows 2000 licenses.
I don't respond to AC's.
If they are just strapping in an unformatted hard drive, how do they do any QC? Is the POST sufficient to guarantee all the components are good and installed correctly?
I'm sure anyone installing *NIX is capable of re-seating boards and the like, but it still has to cost Mr. Dell money to do the replacement part thing, right?
Some makers of commercial software with a free trial, such as Symantec with its Norton Antivirus, pay makers of Lenovo-compatible PCs running Windows OS to install their products. Some claim that the trialware bounties more than pay for the entire cost of a Windows license.
I built my own machines for a long time. But sometime last year I realized I could buy an HP machine from Circuit City for way less money. For $550, I got a machine that had a CPU that, at the time, cost over $300 alone from newegg.com for the identical model (AMD X2). For the extra $250, I got 1GB ram, 250GB disk, case/PSU/nifty_media_ports, DVD-Burner, and a license of WinXP Media Center edition.
The machine is rock solid. I added a recent, high-power video card and the stock power supply didn't flinch a bit. This is consistent with a prior Dell machine I used to own (1GHz PIII). The little 200-watt power supply held up and provided stable power no matter what I threw at it, including a Geforce4 Ti4400 (state-of-the-art back then) and filling the machine with 4 hard drives. Meanwhile all my friends were replacing 400-watt power supplies that couldn't keep their machines stable when adding new hardware.
If its your hobby and you get enjoyment out of home-built machines, then thats great and more power to you. But it no longer makes economic sense to DIY machines.
My Acorn Atom actually came with schematics (2) and it was easy enough to disassemble the ROM. The manual even had a complete definition of the syntax in Backus-Naur format. Too bad modern computer makers don't seem to have that sort of respect for their users.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
Why yes. Yes there is.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000818081805/http://
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Furthermore, Dell is not selling a computer with nothing on it. Customise the configuration and you'll notice several differences with other Dell models. For instance, one needs to sacrifice a goat and pay some 10 to 20 Euro/Dollars more in order to buy a computer from Dell without a floppy. Those computers come with a floppy and if you don't want it they don't lower the price. The same goes for the optical drive. Also you'll need to buy a pretty expensive video card that you'll probably not use at all if you indent to use the computer as a server and work remotely on it. And don't forget to order Microsoft Flight Simulator or some of the other windows-only software they try to sell!
Windows volume licenses are upgrade licenses, even though they let you install fresh. You wouldn't survive a BSA audit with volume licensed Windows installed on no-OS machines.
Each time these articles come out I go to dell.com just in case there is a deal to be had, unfortunately its the same story every frickin' time.
The basic stripped down N521* comes to $749, the basic stripped down E521 with Windows XP Home is $729! So I save $20 if I buy Windows, WTF!!! I have to pay about $70** for NO OS***?
Try again Dell.
* I had to add the 320GB drive to match what is offered on the E521.
** the N521 is $20 and Windows OEM is maybe $50.
*** it comes with FreeDOS, but its FREE, get it!
um...that isn't the same computer at all, the one in the article had a dual amd64 3800 and that one you linked to had a celeron/pentium 4/pentium d ...very different computers.
ojustgiveitup, a nice name but no I won't.
The visible differences between the open source E520 on the left side of the "open source" page and the E520 on right hand side of the Windoze bargain page are:
Those differences could hardly come up to $230, so you are paying the Windoze tax and then some for the illusion of avoiding it. Same box, same stuff in it, the one with Windoze costs less. What a dissapointment.
If I could not find a cheaper Intel or AMD system or just had to buy the Dell, I'd get the one with Windoze and try to return it ... that's probably what this is designed to thwart ... and use the difference to buy a nice LCD. Given the apparent dishonesty, Dell is going to be the last place I look.
DELL IS TERMINAL.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
That is true. That giving a PC without an OS is not opensource. However, on the positive side if a user buys a machine without an OS on it, he/she is not going to spend the retail value to buy the Windows operating system (hopefully). Instead they will either choose to use one of the free operating systems Or... they will tap into the pirated market and install a pirated version of Windows. This will ofcourse increase the current 22% of North America having pirated copy.
I feel that dell is a powerful seller of PC's. This move will give room for the Linux market (hopefully). Thus back to the original posting, it could lead to increase in opensource product use.
Cheers,
Thusjanthan Kubendranathan
For all your coding questions? http://letstalkcoding.com
For all your development needs! http://simtik.com
I've done this for years, but I will admit the idea of a 'pick up and fix for me' warranty does have its appeal sometimes.
Mind you, if I got a machine from Dell it would have windows on it, I like my linux machines to be headless monsters capable of running my experiments, or simple coding boxes with a basic Gcard.
windows machines == gaming boxen for me, not a place for serious work.
There's an easy (and legal) way to clean HP/Lenovo/Dell machines from all the crap.
Step 1)
Get ahold of a Windows XP Pro/Home/MCE (the one matching your license) CD Image. Try piratebay.org, or MSDN if you have a subscribtion.
Step 2)
Modify setupp.ini on the CD, so setup will accept OEM keys (just google for setupp.ini)
Step 3)
Install
Step 4)
Enjoy your Games or work
Dell includes a Windows XP installation CD with many of their computers. It won't ask for a license key (but it won't install on a non-Dell PC). While it is specially manufactured for Dell, it does not include any extra crap. Just plain Windows.
You can then install the crap of your choice from the "extras" CD supplied.
Search RapidShare and MegaUpload!
If dell.co.uk sell them then they keep them very well hidden. Dell.co.uk *do* sell servers without OS's though, but I can't find any n-series in the UK.
finishing up a custom system build on their site, i get this error:
Errors:
Windows® Vista does not support Optical Drive selected.
Warnings:
Congratulations! You have chosen all of the required hardware for a Vista Premium experience!
guess i'm outta luck...
this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
I just purchased five E521 workstations with XP Home Edition on Monday. Total cost, with a $60 small business coupon was $509 per system. I ran through the E521 config using the FreeDOS option. The system, almost identically configured, was $709. The only upgrade was a 250 GB drive versus a 160 GB drive (I couldn't get a discount by dropping to a 160 GB drive). Even without the coupon, it is $40 cheaper to purchase with Windows XP than without a licensed OS. So, either Microsoft is giving away XP Home Edition, or Dell is screwing their customers.
It would be better to purchase the Windows version, then you could install Linux/Xen and would be licensed to Windows as a guest.
Link to customize E520 Link to customize E520n
It was a pain in the ass slogging through 42 pages of Tax Prep software offers and all sorts of crap, but here's the breakdown between the two systems. The E520n is no OS, the E520 is with Windows & the Windows-tax.
(1) The E520n forces you to take a "free" 90 gig HD upgrade. Upgrade the E520 for $40.
(2) The E520n forces you to take a CD/DVD drive combo. Upgrade the E520 for $30.
(3) The E520n forces you to take an nVidia video card. Upgrade the E520 for $40.
(4) The E520n forces you to take a floppy drive. Upgrade the E520 for $30.
(5) The E520n forces you to take a 56k modem. Upgrade the E520 for $20.
(6) The E520n allows you to take a "free" recycling program on your old PC. Upgrade the E520 for $25.
(7) The monitor pricing is screwy, and I think they may have made an error. One way to look at it is that the E520n gets a $60 EXTRA discount if you actively select the "no monitor" option. The other way to look at it is that the E520n pays an extra $60 (or more) penalty if it takes any monitor. I took the no monitor option to pocket the (possibly accidental) $60 bonus.
Once the systems are made as identical as possible, the final prices are $509 for no OS and $704 with OS.
So you "apparantly" get a $195 discount for taking no OS. However on order to get that $195 "discount", you are forced to pay an extra $185 for mostly unwanted overpriced crap. The actual dollars-paid difference is a $10 less for taking no OS (you could get the E520 with no upgrades for $519), but the no-OS comes with various "free stuff" thrown in instead of the OS. In my oppinion the $40 for an extra 90 gig HD ain't bad at all, the $30 for CD/DVD drive combo and $40 for 3D video card upgrade are maybe reasonable or a total waste depending, the $30 for a floppy and the $20 modem and the $25 recycling deal (which by default is left unchecked and unused) are pretty much rape. IMO.
So we still can't pull out a pure price difference for the OS, because Dell picks your pocket for an uncertain amount of money by forcing you to take that mixed bag of "upgrades" in order to get no OS, but it does look like you are getting a decent discount by taking no OS. No more games with an "OS-free" computer actually costing more than an identically configured Windows system. However a good chuck of that discount only crops up if you actively select the non-monitor option. If you take the default monitor, or if you switch to any of the other offered monitors, you basically get hosed for $60 for takeing no-OS and a monitor. If the $240 discount for the no monitor option is a mistake, or if you take the monitor, then no-OS is still a discount but not nearly as signifigant.
The other differences betwen the systems that cound not be avoided are that the Windows system comes with 6 free months of AOL (value $0), comes with free Adobe Acrobat reader (value $0), comes with free Corel photo software (value $0), comes with free Yahoo Music jukebox (value $0), and 1 year of tech support. That tech support *is* valuable, bot to you as a buyer and as a cost to Dell. If you take the no-OS option, they stiff you on the tech support. The money they pocket there in revoking tech support is signifigant and takes a signifigant bite out of any no-Windows-discount that they are actually giving you.
There is one final difference that I'm not sure if it is a real difference. The no-OS version lists "10/100/1000 Ethernet" whereas the Windows version lists "10/100 Ethernet". If the 10/100/1000 Ethernet is actually a different and better network card, then that maybe that is valuable addition in the non-OS system. However I suspect... and I may easily be wrong here... that it is the same card in both s
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
So I went through and tried configuring one of these systems, but I couldn't add it to my cart because of 'Compatibility Problems', which the Dell website was even kind enough to explain to me so that they could be fixed and I could continue adding the machine to my cart. The 'problems' it reported to me were:
Errors:
Windows® Vista does not support Optical Drive selected.
Warnings:
You have selected Vista Premium Operating System with a Basic system configuration. To fully realize Vista Premium's capabilities you need to select at least 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM Memory.
And no, I did not change the OS selection, I checked twice that it was still set to 'FreeDOS'.