35 Million DSes Sold, 6 Million Wiis By End of March

Wowzer writes "Nintendo just announced its quarterly sales for the end of 2006. Sales for the 9 months were up 72%, while net income was up 43%. From the article: '[There will be] worldwide shipments of 6 million Wii systems by the end of March 2007. Nintendo has sold 35 million DS and DS Lite to date ... As for the next fiscal year, Nintendo expect to sell around 23 million DS Lites, bringing the estimated total of DS units to 58 million by March 31, 2008.' New Super Mario Bros. seems to have legs of its own with 8.64 million copies sold worldwide and continued strong sales. But they seem slow to ship out those Wii with 4 million manufactured last year and 810,000 of those not arriving to stores until now."

Comments

Hmm

[lucky13pjn]

So, does this mean Nintendo might just as well print the money itself now?

Re:Hmm

[masklinn]

They've actually been doing that ever since the start of Eternal Easter

Faulty NPD Numbers

[AKAImBatman]

* Nintendo manufactured 4 million Wii systems by the end of 2006 and during that time sold and delivered 3.19 million to its distributors and retail customers around the world, the other 810,000 are slowly arriving at stores now. So they expect another 2.81 million to be sold in the first three months of 2007.

Sounds like even more evidence that the NPD numbers were faulty. 1.1 million in NA in 2006? I think not!

Re:Faulty NPD Numbers

[Itchyeyes]

3.19 million is the number of Wiis shipped by the manufacturer worldwide. 1.1 million is the number of Wiis sold by retailers in the US. The significant difference here is the US vs worldwide numbers.

Re:Faulty NPD Numbers

[AKAImBatman]

Ah hah! Found the exact Nintendo number in their PDF:

Apr-Dec '06 (Sales Units in Ten Thousands)
Japan 114
Americas 125
Other 80
------------
Total 319

Actually, NPD didn't give the numbers for our 51st state* to the North, did they? So I suppose that would explain the discrepency between their numbers and Nintendo's. Nintendo tracks by North America as a whole while NPD only gave the US.

P.S. Can we fix the ecode tag so that it's no longer broken? It's annoying to no longer be able to lay out tabular data correctly.

Re:Faulty NPD Numbers

[AKAImBatman]

I understand that. However, North America gets a lion's share of that. We were promised about half of the Wii shipments, when NPD reports that we only received about a third of them. No worries, though. I figured it out. Look at my response to myself right below your post.

Re:Faulty NPD Numbers

[AKAImBatman]

* Those of you from Canadia can relax. I'm just kidding. :P

Re:Faulty NPD Numbers

[maubp]

Isn't the UK the 51st State, not Canada?

Re:Faulty NPD Numbers

[jZnat]

Maybe they're implying that 1/3 of them sold were legit in the US, 1/3 were to scalpers on eBay, and the other 1/3 to the rest of the world.

I still can't get a Wii !

[CokeBear]

I know they're making them as fast as they can, but demand just won't let up! Here in Toronto, they are never in stock for more than 15 minutes, and nobody ever seems to know when the next shipment will be arriving. Most retailers get 10-20 units every 5-10 days, and they just fly off the shelves. I would have though that by the end of January the supply would have caught up with demand, but with all the new gamers trying the Wii, seems like it could go on for a while.

(For the record, this will be my first gaming system since the original NES, which I played as a kid.)

I'm looking forward to Wii Sports as a fun way to get my somewhat rounded body back into shape. Guess I'll just have to wait a bit longer. That or stop eating junk food.)

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[EastCoastSurfer]

I got a Wii yesterday. I just happened to be standing in BB when they put 3 of them out. I grabbed one then the other 2 were picked up before I walked away. Amazing how the demand is holding strong for the system.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Verteiron]

Same here. The local Target stores are still handing out preclaim tickets at 6 AM the morning before the shipments come in. Wiis never stay in stock more than a couple of hours at any retailer here (western Illinois).

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[owen_b2]

Thats what i thought - "yeah, jump around, get fit!" but its not long before you work out how to play Sports with mere flicks of the wrist, while sprawling back on the sofa in traditional pose.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[CokeBear]

You need to make a conscious decision not to play that way, and stay fully involved in the action. (Wii makes it much easier just by being fun to play.)

Also, by the time I get to that point, I'm hoping there are some new sporty games out. (Any suggestions?)

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[iamdug]

I got mine on Sunday morning. Target got 30 in and started selling at 8am. By the time I got there at 8:50 they had 4. Best part is, my wife has clocked more time than me. I'm playing twilight princess and shes playing Sonic the Hedgehog and Super Mario Brothers. I think Nintendo might have nailed it this time, especially with the new video of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon using the Wii Remote. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/previewArt.cfm? artid=12773

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[DarkGreenNight]

Here in Spain the situation is similar. And not only Wiis are flying off the shelves. Wednesday last week there was a shelf full of wiiplay in a store. After an hour it was only half shelf. Yesterday there wasn't a single wiiplay there.

And I still haven't got one either, waiting to find one.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Taeolas]

In Fredericton (New Brunswick) I was in EBGames after work, and I was surprised they still had 4 Wii in stock. Well 3 Wii since someone was buying one while I was browsing (looking for something else). Seems like the supply is slowly starting to catch up to the demand now. Probably by mid-Feb they should be easier to get.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[EastCoastSurfer]

All I have is wii sports atm and some friends and I had an epic bowling game last night. It really is a fun party type of system. Okay, and the video you linked to means another game I have to buy lol...

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Knuckles]

Suggestions:
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
SSX Blur Snowboarding

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[UbuntuDupe]

I think that if you want to combine your exercise with video gaming, DDR is the way to go. It got me off the couch and I lost 30 pounds in the first three months. (265 -> 235) Also, I got my parents hooked on the Eyetoy's Kinetic, and they liked it so much they've now gotten like four other people to play it. Yeah, that involves the PS2, but remember, the PS2 was from when Sony was still good. (I don't like hard pads, so I use the foam Red Octane Ignition, costs ~$80. If you want to do doubles mode, where you dance across two pads, buy a second and clip them together on the bottom with what are called "blanket pins" -- heavy-duty safety pins.)

Unfortunately, nothing for the Wii yet seems to be targeted toward exercise. There's a set of minigames on Rayman that are labled "workout", and they require moving as fast as possible with your arms, but they are kind of awkward and not really feasible for regular exercise.

I've been hoping for some game that involves you holstering a Wiimote into your legs, or legs and arms and then exploits the motion sensing and possibly also a dance pad, but haven't seen any plans for such a game. Any news on the homebrew side?

I love the Wii, but they're missing out on one of its uses.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[AKAImBatman]

"yeah, jump around, get fit!" but its not long before you work out how to play Sports with mere flicks of the wrist, while sprawling back on the sofa in traditional pose.

At least in the case of Wii Sports, that doesn't work as well as it sounds. You *can* do it, but the movements are a lot less natural. Getting up and moving around makes the games a lot easier to play, which helps keep you on your feet.

The other thing that Wii Sports does is that it ramps up the challenge as you play. (Make sure you make yourself a Mii, or you won't have a save file!) So while you may start playing Wii Sports Tennis using leisurely swings, it won't be long before you find yourself concentrating hard on making more powerful swings in the direction you need the ball to go.

Last but not least, play some boxing. I know the "exhaustion" of your character takes some getting used to. Especially when he fails to punch for seemingly unknown reasons. But once you play it enough, it starts to make sense. You need to dodge the blows of your opponent, then knock him from the inside when his glove whooshes by your head. A nice strong punch followed by various jabs usually has him down on the ground in no time flat. Since there is no better cardiovascular workout than Boxing among the Wii Sports games, I highly recommend that you get acquainted with the gameplay. It will leave you breathing heavy and drenched in sweat. But you won't care because it feels just so darn good to get the exercise! ;D

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Thansal]

Heh, you should check out the minigames included in Wii Sports if you havn't yet. One of the best ones is for bowling, Your goal is to knock down as many pins as you can with one ball, however after each time they will reset the pins and add a line to the back row. Eventualy you end up with a MASSIVE amount of pins to try and get a strike on!

And I am also in the crowd of those that still don't have one yet (I am not willing to spend time over nite, buy a bundle that includes games I don't want, and I flat refuse to buy from ebay). However I have been playign it alot at friends and at the nintendo world store (before launch). Another awsome fighting game to check out is actualy the DBZ game, it also uses the motion sensetive controlls to pull off special moves.

I also played throguh the first few levels of Redsteel at a friend's house recently and have descided that it is deffinatly worth picking up. The controlls are a bit bad, but not nearly to the poitn that most of the reviewers said so (rarely does the view spin out, and I only did it when NOT in combat, simply because I looked away from the screen compleatly).

Curently my list of games to pick up looks like:
Zelda
Redsteel
Elebits (this is a questionable one)
Exite Truck
possibly maden, I really have to try it out first, and the same goes for DBZ (I want to paly it a bit more before hand).

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[JWW]

Curently my list of games to pick up looks like:
Zelda
Redsteel
Elebits (this is a questionable one)
Exite Truck
possibly maden, I really have to try it out first, and the same goes for DBZ (I want to paly it a bit more before hand).

Get Madden, it rocks...

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[cduffy]

Yah -- Madden was on my Christmas list, and I kind of regret it now -- it's a football game with nifty controls, but that doesn't stop it from being a football game, and that's very much not my thing. It's currently on loan to some friends who have friends who come over occasionally and like football games, but I'm not at all above taking it back and reselling it. (Do you refuse to buy from eBay because of something against them in particular, or just the general risk of buying things from strangers sight-unseen? If it's the former, drop me an email).

I have some friends who think Elebits is the best thing since sliced bread. Me, I'm a little more indifferent having had just played one session -- it's fun, but I'm not raving about it to the extent they are. (Okami is the game I'm raving about these days). What play time I have on the Wii is split between Wii Sports and Zelda -- Zelda starts a little slow (especially for me since I couldn't catch the two fish needed to get past the tutorial 'till a friend pointed out what I was doing wrong), but it doesn't stay that way all game.

Anyhow -- have fun!

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[jackbird]

You need Rayman. Trust me.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[ExKoopaTroopa]

Same thing in Belgium. I got mine on launch (1 month pre-order), but my brother-in-law has been trying to get one for over three weeks and can't get his hands on one. BTW, for those who couldn't buy Wii Play at launch, don't get your hopes up, Wii Sports and Rayman are ten times more fun.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[7Prime]

Okami = Wiiiii for the PS2!

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Thansal]

I refuse to buy from E-Bay for 2 fold:
1) I hate paying a premium for items I could go out and buy if I wasn't lazy, mainly b/c I am lazy and patient (Zelda will rock jsut as hard a month from now as it did at release)
2) There are far to many instances of scumbags on E-Bay, where what what they do is technicaly not illegal or against ebay's rules, I still can't stand giving money to them.

And I am probably in the same camp as you about maden, it looks like an great control setup, however is that really enough to make me want to paly a football game?

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Thansal]

Doh!

I knew I had forgoten atleast one game, and rayman is it.

I am also very tempted by rampage, but that might jsut be nastolgia talking.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Anonymous Coward]

Trauma center is also very fun, especially if you've never played the DS version

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[KDR_11k]

Wii Sports has an exercise mode though it just randomly throws you into different training modes. If in doubt, just add some training weights and play boxing.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[xantho]

I didn't like Red Steel that much. The FPS style using the remote is good, but I thought that the swordfighting was kind of silly. The voice acting was pretty awful as well, lots of French accents trying to sound like a Japanese guy speaking English, which is very strange. Also, even taking into account that the graphics horsepower in the system isn't that high, it looks pretty bad. Players and objects are aliased all to hell and back.

I can totally recommend Elebits, though. That game is fun as all get-out.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[physicsnick]

Ottawa here, and it's exactly the same situation. Stock sells out in minutes; it's kind of disgusting. Maybe they're just not sending enough systems to Canada. I'm quite sick of having this money burning a hole in my pocket, and I've pretty much decided that I'll spend the money on something else and wait until mid-summer (when I get a summer job and some income) to buy one. Pretty sad, actually.

This will also be my first gaming system since the original NES, which I still play regularly (at least once a week). It's the only device hooked up to the TV in my living room; I don't even have cable or a DVD player.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[rjung2k]

"At least in the case of Wii Sports, that doesn't work as well as it sounds. You *can* do it, but the movements are a lot less natural. Getting up and moving around makes the games a lot easier to play, which helps keep you on your feet."

True dat. I play Wii Sports on a daily basis, because it's fun for quick bursts, and I like to pretend the Fitness Age test actually has merit. ;-) But when I try to play using just wrist flicks instead of full-body motions, my performance drops significantly. Might as well get up, get into the game, get a better score, and not look like a toolbox in the process.

It's no different than playing Duck Hunt with the Zapper. Sure, you can stand right next to the screen and get perfect marksmanship, but why?

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Nf1nk]

I have found that I just can't realy play zelda standing up. I have to sit there being a tool box, even though the fishing can be a little hard to coordinate.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Anonymous Coward]

because it feels just so darn good to get the exercise!

Oops, pardon my intrusion. I thought I was browsing /.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Thansal]

Well, I have played more Redsteel then elebits (only a couple quick MP games of elebits). I realyl like redsteel and will be getting it. Graphics realy don't meen much to me, and the voice acting just makes me laugh every so often (I love the guys who are AMBUSHING ME yellign about me shootign them :P).

I need to paly a bit more elebits before I descide if I want it or not.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[ArtDent]

Here's the secret: Wii Finder Canada + Check4Change

http://www.corwin.ca/wii/index.php?item=console
http://check4change.mozdev.org/

New units are going on sale at both futureshop.ca and bestbuy.ca a couple of times a week. A batch of 100 sells out in about two minutes.

Wii Finder monitors the Wii pages from several online retailers and updates when they do. Check4Change is a Firefox plug-in that alerts you when a web page updates.

It's key that you create an account, and provide your address and credit card information, beforehand. You aboslutely will not have time to enter this stuff during the transaction. I only created accounts at Best Buy and Future Shop, as the other stores weren't seeming to get much new stock, anyway.

I was monitoring those two stores, checking for changes every 20 seconds. Last Tuesday, 96 units came in at Future Shop, and I was able to snag one in about a minute. They were all gone 30 seconds later. Make sure you know your CIN and any credit card security password (e.g. Verified by Visa) by heart, as you won't have time to look anything up. Click through the order quickly, just checking for sanity and accepting the defaults. The default shipping costs about $12, and will only take 2 days in Toronto.

I've also been able to score an additional remote and nunchuk using the same approach.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[Emetophobe]

Congraduations (you lucky bastard). I've been wanting a Wii since they were released, but I still haven't been able to find any locally. For now I guess my new DS Lite will have to keep me happy (got it for Christmas). The New Super Mario DS is pretty awesome IMO, I haven't had this much fun since Super Mario World (SNES was the last Nintendo system I owned). Can't wait to get the Wii and play some Zelda though...

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[zerocommazero]

I just got one last Friday. An ex-coworker picked me up one. He was in Target and saw two. Great guy. We were both combing the stores looking for Wiis. I gave up after a while and this guy calls me up at work out of the blue and asks if i would want the extra he got. So i paid him and picked up two games on the way home from work. Zelda and Raving Rabids

Still can't find any extra wiimotes though. They're as hard to get as Wii systems and i refuse to pay over cost on eBay.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[mgblst]

THe whole point of the special moves was that they were hard to get out. That was one of the things making them special. This sort of ruins it, surely. THe balance of play will end up all wrong, with everybody just doing supermoves all the time, because they are easy.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[LKM]

It will change balance, but not ruin it. I own a Street Fighter game for the Cube, which has a "simple" input option. You can start special moves with just one button. The thing is, they still take quite a bit of time to execute and leave you open for attack. There are definitely way more special moves, but the "normal" moves are still used most of the time, and the whole game becomes quite a bit more frantic because you need less time to execute a special move, and therefore need to keep the other player from ever catching his breath.

It's different, but not worse.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[AvitarX]

Wal-Mart should have wii-motes on Sunday (get there when they open though) according to ps3seeker.com/wii

I have found the rumors to be accurate. I will say I lined up at target last Sunday. they opened at 8:00am and by 7:30 all 42 Wii's were accounted for. They had classic controllers and nun chucks, but no wii-motes.

Re:I still can't get a Wii !

[yarbo]

Wario Ware has games where you do things like hold the wiimote at your side and hula hoop.
link

4 million confusion

[MeanderingMind]

The 4 million manufactured would explain the large number differences between what was sold and what was promised. 800k+ consoles that didn't arrive in time for the new year certainly makes a difference.

It is disappointing that they couldn't live up to their word. They may not have flubbed as much as Sony, but they still didn't get 4 million consoles into our hands when they said they would.

However, I'm much more concerned about their ability to sell another 2 million consoles before March ends and hit 6 million. It seems within their reach, but it would be disheartening if it ended up being 6 million manufactured instead of sold.

Re:4 million confusion

[Skreems]

I have no doubt that the consoles will continue to sell like crazy. Right now, you've got sites that track possible locations that might have the Wii near you, and people camping out before stores open. How many consumers are willing to do that? I would guess less than 20%. Which means that there's an even bigger untapped market of people who are waiting until they can stroll into a local store of their choice at 5 PM and still find one on the shelves (I'm one of them). I doubt their sales will be slowing anytime soon.

Re:4 million confusion

[Itchyeyes]

I find it strange that Nintendo has not been able to produce more Wiis, given that most of the technology in the system is rather old. The NPD numbers say they moved 1.1 million units in the US between November and December. By contrast, they moved 1.21 million Gamecubes in the US in Nov & Dec 2001. The Gamecube utilized much newer technology at the time, including a new, proprietary disk media.

Re:4 million confusion

[revlayle]

3+ million consoles in ~2 months = not too bad. A couple more months to get the approximately same amount out (maybe a little less) sounds like a good bet.

Re:4 million confusion

[revlayle]

I don't think it is so much the cost of materials, but the logistics and time to manufacture in general. even if your bill of materials is relatively inexpensive, that may or may not correlate to time to produce a unit, package, then ship to a regional distributor, then to a retail outlet, etc...

Re:4 million confusion

[masklinn]

They haven't been able to really ramp up their DS Lite production either, even though it's been out of stock since its release (Mars 2, 2006) in Japan and is becoming *very* hard to find in europe since November or so...

Re:4 million confusion

[Itchyeyes]

That was my point though. 360 production and PS3 production were held back because the 360 processor, Cell, and Blu-ray diodes were all new technologies with inefficient manufacturing processes. A large percentage of these items manufactured had to be thrown out due to flaws. Sony and MS couldn't have made more units even if they had paid for them. However, the Wii has no such new technologies in it that would have those inefficient manufacturing processes. I'm sure there must be some part that's difficult to get ahold of, but I can't think of what it would be.

Re:4 million confusion

[AKAImBatman]

I find it strange that Nintendo has not been able to produce more Wiis, given that most of the technology in the system is rather old.

It's a manufacturing capacity problem. Nintendo's business is sized according to the requirements of their previous generation of hardware. This unexpectedly high demand for Wiis has left them in dire need to increase their production capabilities. Unfortunately, it takes months to tool up a new factory and begin moving parts to that factory. And that factory won't even be able to work at full capacity if there's a shortage of some particular part. For example, the Wii cases are highly customized pieces of plastic. If the provider of those cases can't make enough to meet production needs, then the entire pipeline won't be able to operate at maximum capacity.

All I can say is that it's a good thing that Nintendo gets their chips from IBM. IBM is probably the only company that could provide Nintendo with enough customized microprocessors to scale with their needs.

Re:4 million confusion

[revlayle]

The Nintendo technology issue does exist, but in a different form. Instead of manufacturing a powerful new processor into a complicated system causing the bottleneck, it may have been creating a very small form-factor, tightly integrated system that uses low-power effectively, in addition to the manufacturing of the wii-remote and nunchuk attachment, which, not completely new, still new enough to the consumer and more than likely have never been manufactured in such large quantities. Also, they MAY have smaller manufacturing facility causing the bottleneck (dunno); there MAY have been a bit of a manufacturing flub up that that had to restart a time or two (dunno). Either way, 3+ million is still pretty good for a new set-top console in a couple months, but, indeed, they didn't make 4 mil target, that's for sure. So, hey, lets split more hairs!!

Re:4 million confusion

[MeanderingMind]

Your post makes me wonder if we'll see DSLitesque sellouts.

From what other responders have said, the DSLite remains sold out even as we approach its first birthday. Were the Wii to duplicate that kind of demand, it's only criticism could likely be Nintendo's failure to provide adaquate supply.

I sincerely hope they can meet demand sooner rather than later. Eventually some rather beautiful and stunning games will come out for the PS3 and 360, and if Nintendo doesn't match those in a timely fashion with games that really show what their controller can do they may lose the momentum they have.

Re:4 million confusion

[JWW]

I think you've got something there. I think production of the wiimote might be whats slowing them down. You don't see any of them in stores either. Usually controllers are not so hard to come by.

Re:4 million confusion

[Wdomburg]

The accelerometers they're using were only introduced in November 2005. Not exactly what I'd call "rather old" technology. The drive also has to be custom; remember, it reads GCN disks as well. And the CPU and GPU set, though not designed for speed, are new custom designs. Add all that up, and it's hardly surprising there's a limit to their capacity.

Re:4 million confusion

[7Prime]

Well, I can attest to that. My buddy is looking at getting a DSLite. We went to the local Fred Meyer's here, and they were totally sold out, we called the store across town, they were sold out too, said they may have a new shipment coming in today. But yeah, it's looking to be just as hot of an item as the Wii. They still don't dedicate any shelf space to the Wii, as they sell out before they can stock them. They seem to have given up on controller space too... they're now simply using the Wii controller space to house unwanted SIXAXIS controllers, as Wiimotes and 'chucks also get snatched up before they can put them out.

Re:4 million confusion

[AKAImBatman]

The accelerometers they're using were only introduced in November 2005.

Manufacturers introduce new parts all the time. They usually take over the manufacturing facilities of the parts they're replacing. Accelerometers have been around long enough to where supply shouldn't be that big of a problem.

The drive also has to be custom; remember, it reads GCN disks as well.

Actually, the Wii/GCN optical discs are the exact same technology as DVDs. The only difference is in a firmware update that allows the drive to read discs in Nintendo's custom format. (Nintendo didn't want to pay DVD licensing fees.) The GCN discs are mini-DVD sized, which are very similar to the 3" CDs from days gone by. They're often used in digital video cameras, and should fit in most standard DVD drives. The loading mechanism is probably custom, though. Very few slot-loading designs support the smaller CD/DVD formats. Of course, that's just a matter of mechanical parts.

And the CPU and GPU set, though not designed for speed, are new custom designs.

"Broadway" is a pretty straight-forward update to the "Gekko" chip used in the GCN. It's manufactured by IBM, one of the largest chip manufacturers in the world today. Similarly, "Hollywood" is an update to the "Flipper" chip used in the GCN. It's manufactured by ATI, another company with massive manufacturing capabilities.

If I were to hazard a guess, the problem is not with Nintendo's partners. The problem is getting caught with their pants down, expecting that the Wii would sell only slightly better than the GCN did at launch. As a result, they're months behind on scaling up their manufacturing to meet demand. They may even be cautious about doing so, just in case demand were to suddenly drop off just after Christmas. Now that they know that demand is holding steady, expect Nintendo to get their act together something around... oh... June. Maybe July.

Re:4 million confusion

[EastCoastSurfer]

My buddy has been looking for a DSLite since 2 weeks before Christmas and he still hasn't found one. Could we be in the midst of nintendo returning to video game power?

Re:4 million confusion

[Wdomburg]

Manufacturers introduce new parts all the time. They usually take over the manufacturing facilities of the parts they're replacing. Accelerometers have been around long enough to where supply shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Manufacturers don't introduce the first single chip three-axis accelerometer every day. We're talking about a new unique single-sourced chip from a manufacturer with relatively limited fab capacity.

Actually, the Wii/GCN optical discs are the exact same technology as DVDs. The only difference is in a firmware update that allows the drive to read discs in Nintendo's custom format. (Nintendo didn't want to pay DVD licensing fees.) The GCN discs are mini-DVD sized, which are very similar to the 3" CDs from days gone by. They're often used in digital video cameras, and should fit in most standard DVD drives. The loading mechanism is probably custom, though. Very few slot-loading designs support the smaller CD/DVD formats. Of course, that's just a matter of mechanical parts.

Mechanical parts need manufacture too, you know. :)

"Broadway" is a pretty straight-forward update to the "Gekko" chip used in the GCN. It's manufactured by IBM, one of the largest chip manufacturers in the world today. Similarly, "Hollywood" is an update to the "Flipper" chip used in the GCN. It's manufactured by ATI, another company with massive manufacturing capabilities.

And just because the companies have fabrication capability doesn't mean they have spare capacity that can be tooled for a temporary production ramp-up for a single client. I'm sure if Nintendo threw a ton of money at them, they'd be willing to do it, but why should they when demand will level off in a matter of months?

If I were to hazard a guess, the problem is not with Nintendo's partners. The problem is getting caught with their pants down, expecting that the Wii would sell only slightly better than the GCN did at launch. As a result, they're months behind on scaling up their manufacturing to meet demand. They may even be cautious about doing so, just in case demand were to suddenly drop off just after Christmas. Now that they know that demand is holding steady, expect Nintendo to get their act together something around... oh... June. Maybe July.

That's assuming demand stays peaked, which is won't. Otherwise it makes no sense to invest in ramping up production to meet demand that will level off by the time the factories have tooled their lines. They currently project six million units in the next fiscal year and have publicly commited to shipping two million in a single quarter. A little math implies their current production capacity outstrips their projected demand with plenty of wiggle room.

Re:4 million confusion

[MeanderingMind]

As interesting as that would be, it's not going to happen if they can't keep everything in stock, or at least up their production rates.

Re:4 million confusion

[tepples]

The Gamecube utilized much newer technology at the time, including a new, proprietary disk media.

GameCube media was just 80mm DVD-ROM with copy authentication information in the Burst Cutting Area. It's not that much different from Xbox or PlayStation 2 media except for the size.

Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's the lack of vision that makes the DS so popular--the fact that it isn't a wannabe jack-of-all-trades like the PSP. But with 35 million units and counting, that's pretty much a standard and if the DS had some new wonderful useful function we could all bask (I own a classic DS from launch). Instead it has a third class chat/drawing app and an annoyingly mandatory (and non-configurable) health warning to act as a constant nuisance. And in the case of the DS classic, grudingly inferior LCD screens are the icing on the cake.

But just consider this: if the DS were the one to utilize UMD, I submit that it wouldn't be the commercial flop it is.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[HappySqurriel]

Maybe it's the lack of vision that makes the DS so popular--the fact that it isn't a wannabe jack-of-all-trades like the PSP

I don't see anything about the DS that could be classified as a "lack of vision" ... when it was released it was wildly different than anything that had come before it and it was Nintendo's unique approach of creating hardware that suits their idea of what software they want to produce that created the popular product they have today. They envisioned the demand for games like Brain Training, Nintendogs, Animal Crossing Wild World, and The New Super Mario Bros. (some of which use a greater subset of the features of the DS than others) and produced the hardware to meet this demand. They knew you didn't need the best LCD screen in the world to be popular and the added cost would drive customers away, thus they choose "grudingly inferior LCD screens".

The reason people choose a DS is because they want to play unique games which are appropriate for portable gaming; the PSP is far behind because far fewer people want a portable PS2 which has a MP3 player and proprietary movie format.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Thraxen]

I'm trying to figure out what point you are trying to make. What do you think Nintendo should have done differently with the DS? Who uses the chat app anyway? And who really cares about the 2 second health warning? These seem like trivial complaints.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[masklinn]

Maybe it's the lack of vision that makes the DS so popular

Lack of vision? So the Touch Generation and the Nintendogs/Animal Crossing/Brain Age games show lack of vision to you? As opposed to the "let's just port PS2 games to the PSP it'll work well enough" and "Hey I've got that awesome idea of creating a handheld console with 3 hours of autonomy"?

Damn, if the DS shows a lack of vision, what does the PSP show? Utter blindness?

if the DS had some new wonderful useful function we could all bask

It has a touch screen, it has awesome games, the DS Lite has corrected the Tank's mistakes (screens and all), I can bask in actually being able to play good games on a game console.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

You demonstrated precisely my point, why did they waste time and resources developing a third class chat app that nobody will ever use? Remember the initial games that would have options to monitor for pictochat traffic? Except nobody cares about pictochat. But if Nintendo had some vision and put some effort into it, I think they could have put something else in there that people would use.

Who cares about the mandatory health warning? Who shouldn't care? That's 35 million users who are forced to pass an unnecessary screen every single time they turn on their DS. Why isn't there an option to disable it? Why can't the DS firmware be upgraded so one could still be instituted (it can be reflashed, but only by opening the system and shorting it which does not sound like something Nintendo will ever do on a large scale) Why do 35 million people have to suffer this nuisance because less than 1% at some degree of risk might actually be too stupid to RTFM?

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[flitty]

"But just consider this: if the DS were the one to utilize UMD, I submit that it wouldn't be the commercial flop it is"

uh, that depends, are they distributing GAMES on the UMD (which then, umd is no different from the DS cartridges, other than rediculous load times... 4+ minutes for some games) or 3rd rate sony movies on UMD to show on a tiny screen that only play on the DS? Hey, AC, are you Ken katarugi?

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Mr. Hankey]

if the DS were the one to utilize UMD, I submit that it wouldn't be the commercial flop it is.

It's not because of marketing, Sony is no slouch there, nor because there aren't people loyal to Sony's platform. Sony's product simply makes it difficult to be loyal. Why do people want to re-buy their DVDs in a low res medium they can only play on the handheld, with no TV output, especially when Sony wants people to buy movies again in the high def Blu-Ray now? If the DS utilized UMD, I doubt it would be as small nor have the same battery life as the DS light. The media would be larger as well. Handhelds get carried around, sometimes on long trips, and these factors can be important. My wife and I used our DS systems on our last trip to Japan and had no worries about battery life on either ~11 hour flight - nor the extra connecting flights in Narita. No problems fitting both DS systems and all our games in carry-on luggage.

We picked up a bit of software for the DS in Japan as well, including DQM:Joker, a Japanese dictionary application for myself that uses the stylus to recognize input Japanese characters, and an English TOEIC training game for my wife. We also left a game from the US for my brother-in-law's kids. The lack of region coding (this even extends to the AC adapters between the US and Japan, both unlike the Wii unfortunately) in the DS systems makes it ideal for our usage. Not sure about the PSP, perhaps it also has no region encoding, but it felt good to not have to worry about regions.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

Add to that:

* for a long time, fairly low cost compared to the PSP, which allows people to buy more games; the PSP price has plummeted since
* decent price on games
* spiffy new redesign with the lite to reinvigorate interest in the hardware (Sony couldn't even do a decent job releasing the various white, silver, etc. colors of the PSP in the US)
* didn't try to make it an end all be all media center like Sony did and lock people in with memory sticks and the like (it's largely a small gaming system)
* can play the entire backlog of Advance games (I don't own a GBA, yet I'm now buying GBA games that I never had the chance to play)
* tapping into the "old" gamers that have jobs and cash to get classics (Super Mario), some which were not released in the US (FF3), and the already 'backlog' of GBA games (Final Fantasy series 1&2, 4-5, 6 I think is coming soon)
* these are "fun" games people can play for nearly all demographics and for short sitdowns, unlike most FPSs that the PSP seem to be focused on
* better advertising--where I am in suburban Pennsylvania, there are far more ads for the DS lite and its games than the PSP. When the PSP commercials do come up, they seem gimmicky, with those dust fuzzballs, or noting 'PSP' with little of actual persons playing a game, focusing on the game being promoted, not the device or combo of game and device; strangely, I think people have difficulty understanding why they'd want a PSP versus a home console

The PSP is surely a superior system on the technical merits. But it doesn't do anything on its list well; it's a crossover device that doesn't succeed. Games seem limited, it's costly, etc. If the PSP had PDA functions, I'd think there would be far far more interest as a be all device, but it really doesn't from what I've heard.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

Your response smacks of fanboyism, so responding to it is probably tantamount to just saying "no you shut up". Still, your comment regarding ports amuses me because you say this in support of the company that produced the GBA and a system that launched with Super Mario 64 DS. Speaking of which, do I even need to bring up the point about Nintendo+innovation+hey-let's-release-Super-Mario- 5,431!

My point is that as entertaining as Elite Beat Agents has proven to be, why doesn't the DS do anything else for me? With 35 million other folks out there owning one, it seems like there should be more here than whatever video game is inserted+pictochat. And the fact that there are no potential firmware revisions smacks of finality. Now that presumably 35 million other folks own one we can't look forward to anything good happening because of it. If there were it would have to be sold seperately, and therefore plagued with the same faults underlying all of Nintendo's other "innovations" from R.O.B. to the Gamecube bongos.

Additionally, I could care less what the PSP displays. You appear to think that by criticizing the DS in any way that somehow it supports Sony's abomination. But I will give the PSP credit in the vein of my criticism against the DS: the PSP has upgradeable firmware and nothing that shows the lack of vision that pictochat displays.

I personally disagree with your comments about the lite vs. classic models, but I suppose that's another argument.

And no, you shut up. Cheers.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[falcon5768]

You demonstrated precisely my point, why did they waste time and resources developing a third class chat app that nobody will ever use?/blockquote You never went to a con have you. at the last 2 Otakons 6 chatrooms where filled at any one time of people talking trading info about show times and in the case of the 4chan'ers drawing dicks. On top of it a lot of people used it to connect to go play multiplay games together... sit in the chat room figure out what games the two of you had and jump in.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

To cover their asses, dumbass. They could probably get sued for not having enough warning labels on their console, plus, some people borrow or buy used games that do not come with a manual. A small population of people might not even know that they have epilepsy, and when they start having seizures it would be nice to have an explaination of why they're having seizures.

Also almost nobody reads the fucking manual, so a short warning screen is implemented. So far the warning screens annoyed me less than you did.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

Surprisingly, the PSP doesn't have region locks on games. My consideration here about the DS is because I see a lot of homebrew cases of people wanting to play video and music on their DS (personally I think that's silly, but if the demand is there..) What I basically meant is that if DS were the one to support video and music on their handheld--particularly if it meant a decent built-in media player--I wonder if it would be a success where the PSP appears to be a failure in these respects. Of course here I'm guilty of thinking of this in terms of homebrew: people encoding their own media and playing it on the system rather than buying a second library of movies. So you're right, there are other mitigating factors to be considered such as Nintendo would probably do the same things where protection and limited functionality are concerned.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to nitpick - but when we picked up a DS in the States the charger was 110V only, brought back to europe and bought the charger, and it's only rated at 220-240V. Just mentioning in case someone dosn't check and plugs away

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[masklinn]

this in support of the company that produced the GBA

Er... yeah, do you have any issue with the GBA?

a system that launched with Super Mario 64 DS

You're aware that other games have been released since Super Mario 64 right?

why doesn't the DS do anything else for me? With 35 million other folks out there owning one, it seems like there should be more here than whatever video game is inserted+pictochat.

You may be aware that the Nintendo DS is a game console, its first and foremost goal is to allow you to play games, not watch movies of listen to MP3s (even though first and third-party addons do actually allow you to)

The fact that it was built, marketed and thought of as a portable game console focused on allowing the user to play games, the very fact you criticize, is in fact probably one of the DS' sources of success. A minor one compared to the SW library, but one nonetheless.

Not to mention the complete and utter failure of the PSP's "entertainment center" strategy (have you checked the UMD movies sales as of late? Do you see many people using the PSP as their MP3 player? They're in the shitter and I don't, respectively)

If there were it would have to be sold seperately

As a matter of fact, there are, and they are already.

But I will give the PSP credit in the vein of my criticism against the DS: the PSP has upgradeable firmware and nothing that shows the lack of vision that pictochat displays.

Haven't seen the PSP's upgradeable firmware feature used for any upgrade yet, unless you consider "homebrew" crackdown an upgrade.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[PeelBoy]

People DO use the chat. Maybe not everybody and maybe not often but it is a cool feature when your in a situation to use it. The chats fill up quick in huge conferences and I've used it in a few classes too. What time and resources would they have saved by not adding it? A few short months if even that? So what would that have done? Helped a game get shipped a little quicker? Big deal I'm glad they added the chat. Plus the ability to use the chat is starting to be built into games (that club house card game has it and I believe true swing golf does also to name 2).

It saves those companies the time and resources to build their own chat software. They can just include the ability to use the built in stuff. Hmmmmmmm.

And the warning screen is a big DUH!! Why does anything have warning screens?

I'd be bitching about wasted time and resources on the DS if there was a reason too. It's not like Nintendo sat on their asses and did nothing to help the system along. They have done everything they could to make it a hit system. They've made games people want and they've gotten 3rd parties interest peaked in the system. I'd say they are doing a pretty fucking good job.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo got sued over some guy dying from hitting a table during a seizure after playing his N64 all day for years. Ever since that lawsuit they add that annoying warning to everything. The Wii has it, the DS has it, all new GC and GBA games from Nintendo have it. If you want to blame someone blame the US legal system that allowed people to go to court because the warning was only in the manual and not on the screen itself.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

The PSP has no region encoding on the games, and is actually better in terms of the AC adapter. The PSP adapter is universal 100-220Volts, whereas the AC adapter for the DS sold in Japan/US is only 100-120Volts.

That makes no difference when I'm traveling between Japan and the US, but it certainly did when I went to Europe. I was able to charge my PSP there but not my DS (yes I took both with me).

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[DanTheManMS]

Completely agree.

I have recently purchased Elite Beat Agents, an astoundingly fun game that I can only describe as being "DDR on crack." Without the touch screen, the game would probably never have been created. The lower quality graphics doesn't stop it from being a great experience.

And with the extra hardware I purchased to make my DS homebrew-capable, my DS now functions as a PDA and media player as well. All in all, the DS was one of the best purchases I've made. I'd say Nintendo had the right idea when making the product.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[DanTheManMS]

Haven't seen the PSP's upgradeable firmware feature used for any upgrade yet, unless you consider "homebrew" crackdown an upgrade.

To be fair, the web browser, flash player, and PSX emulator were released through firmware upgrades. And Nintendo actually has upgraded their firmware several times, the latest I believe being firmware version 6. They're not user-upgradeable, and they don't mark many new changes, although firmware v4 broke current methods of booting homebrew devices, requiring new devices to be made. This was probably unintentional however. Interestingly enough, DS Phats with firmware version 5 or above actually have screens and other internals similar to the DS Lite, so the capability exists for changing the brightness levels. If you install the lastest version of FlashMe on a DS Phat with firmware version 5, you can gain brightness controls. Wish I could do that, but I've only got version 4.
How to test your DS firmware version

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[tepples]

Without the touch screen, [Ouendan and Elite Beat Agents] would probably never have been created.

That, or they would have had to use the FantaVision control scheme.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[DanTheManMS]

*sigh* I can never escape you, can I? =)

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Mr. Hankey]

Not to nitpick - but when we picked up a DS in the States the charger was 110V only

Not at all, that's an excellent point. I mentioned between US and Japan, as the US is typically 110-120v at 60hz; both our DS systems come with chargers that work from 100-120v at 50 and 60hz. Since my wife's family is in Japan I tend to travel there more than other places, so it's been perfect for us.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Mr. Hankey]

That's good news for the PSP, but I haven't seen anything that made me want one just yet. We already have a Wii, two DS systems, a GBA SP, and a PS2 (along with several older consoles.) It has to differentiate itself somehow for me to add it to my console collection though, these things happen when you get married...

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[Anonymous Coward]

EBA is great, but Cool Cool Toon did the same "shrinking circles" idea 6 years ago on the Dreamcast.
(http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/dreamcast/data/37 4653.html)

Don't worry, you're not missing much as EBA is superior in every way.

Re:Kind of makes you wish Nintendo had vision

[LKM]

It's fascinating how quickly DS perception went from "too much innovation" to "lack of vision." It's a testament to how ubiquitous and "normal" the DS has become. When it came out, people cried "gimmick." Now, the dual screen is as normal as the d-pad. I'm guessing the Wii will go a similar path.

Bazillions sold

[Life700MB]

If PS3 has showed us a lesson, is that we need a new metric for "x millions sold" with game consoles, that is, "x millions sold minus y millions returned after being unable to sell them at ebay for a premium price".

No, seriously, most PS3 were bought for reselling, while most wii's are bought for playing. And it, for me, it's a pretty big difference.

--
Superb hosting 200GB Storage, 2_TB_ bandwidth, php, mysql, ssh, $7.95

Re:Bazillions sold

[Itchyeyes]

No, seriously, most PS3 were bought for reselling, while most wii's are bought for playing. And it, for me, it's a pretty big difference. And I'm sure you have some sort of data or source to back up this claim. A cursory search on eBay or a news story about the launch line at a particular Best Buy doesn't really qualify. I'm only calling you out, because I hear this line repeated fairly often with pretty much no evidence to support such an assertion. It seems fairly intuitive that more PS3s are sold on eBay than Wiis, but that doesn't necessarily translate to most.

Re:Bazillions sold

[HappySqurriel]

I don't know whether what he says is true or not, but I wouldn't be too surprised if on the initial shipments there were far more people waiting in line with the intention of selling the PS3 for huge profits. At launch everyone was anticipating that the PS3 was going to sell for thousands of dollars right up to (and well past) Christmas as it was supposed to be the hot holiday item and the low supply was supposed to make that much worse; we know that most people who tried to resell their PS3 did not get the massive profits they were dreaming of.

One thing which may add creditability to these claims is that the PS3's tie ratio through 2006 was ~1.25, the Wii's tie ratio was ~2.0 (3.0 if you included Wii sports) and in 2005 the XBox 360's was 4; accessory sales (from my understanding) were similarly skewed with far fewer accessories being sold for the PS3 as any other system. What this could imply is that fewer people were buying the PS3 with the intention of playing games on it.

Re:Bazillions sold

[Garse Janacek]

I'm not sure I agree with the GP -- however, as partial support for his claim, I believe that at least in Japan, the tie ratio (number of games sold / number of consoles sold) for the PS3 is less than one, which is pretty damning. I don't think that's true in the US, but I believe the ratio is still much worse than the Wii...

I share your skepticism that this means most are being bought to resell, but I think it does at least suggest a statistically significant chunk of them.

Re:Bazillions sold

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at places where people were selling ps3 at like craigslist. Now I'm starting to see a lot of $700 or more gift cards from places like bestbuy for sale. I'm guessing people who returned the ps3 got store credit, lol.

Re:Bazillions sold

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude stores are FULL of ps3's many of them when you look at them are returns as the boxes are more beat up than normal.

I can go out and buy 4-5 Ps3's right now without effort, you cant touch a wii within a 500 mile radius.

Ps3 sucks, people are not interested in it or it's $70.00us games they were simply trying to whore it on ebay. (many ebay listings ended with no bidders. the ones that are selling are at below retail price.

Instead of being a sony shill posting on websites, get a real clue. Nintendo is kicking the PS3 and Xbox's arse hard. REally really hard. the DS kicked the PSP's arse from the beginning and still is whipping it harder than the Gameboy did to the gamegear back in the day.

Re:Bazillions sold

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that many people buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray disc player. That drives the tie ratio down. Also, the free download of GTHD and Toro Station, as well as playable demos don't help the tie ratio either.

During the first year of my 360 ownership, the tie ratio was *zero*. All I played were the demo of Geometry Wars, other downloadable demos, and some rentals. I finally bought RR6 recently when it dropped down to $15 at Fry's.

Re:Bazillions sold

[Garse Janacek]

Don't forget that many people buy the PS3 as a Blu-Ray disc player.

Is there any evidence for this? There certainly hasn't been any hype or media coverage of this phenomenon -- I don't think people were camping out in order to obtain a Blu-Ray player. This may account for some of the market, but unless there is evidence I really doubt it's a sizable percentage, certainly not enough to explain the poor game sales all by itself...

During the first year of my 360 ownership, the tie ratio was *zero*. All I played were the demo of Geometry Wars, other downloadable demos, and some rentals. I finally bought RR6 recently when it dropped down to $15 at Fry's.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this is highly atypical behavior, and not a major driving force in the console market. Especially on the PS3, which as far as I know doesn't (yet) have much killer downloadable content like the 360 seemed to out of the gate. The tie ratio of the 360, which was substantially above zero in the first year, seems to back this up. The point isn't that everyone is expected to buy a certain number of games -- the point is that on average, people are buying far fewer games per PS3 (an average of less than 1 is pretty unheard-of, it may be a first in console history, I'm not sure) than they are for any other system. So, sure, you didn't buy any 360 games, but most people did, and that isn't happening on the PS3 yet.

I guess we'll get a better picture when Final Fantasy and MGS and the rest start arriving...

Re:Bazillions sold

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3, which as far as I know doesn't (yet) have much killer downloadable content

Like I said, GTHD (US and Japan) and Toro Station (Japan only). Those two are free, and Tekken 5 DR just came out as a download exclusive, which is not a bad deal for 2000Yen. There is also a downloadable demo of Ridge Racer 7, which is practically the only launch title that didn't completely suck (well, Resistance, but the Japanese hate FPSes). I think that's enough content to keep people happy for a while.

like the 360 seemed to out of the gate.

Name them. For a long time there was nothing on the Live Arcade worth downloading other than Geometry Wars.

The tie ratio of the 360, which was substantially above zero in the first year

Hardly surprising since every retailer seemed to be bundling all the launch titles with the 360 for a very long time. They didn't do this in Japan, nor did they do this at the Japanese PS3 launch. This also accounts for the higher tie ratio of PS3 games in the US, at least at launch window. Now that it's not selling as well as people thought, more retailers seem to be happy unbundling the PS3.

Re:Bazillions sold

[Garse Janacek]

GTHD (US and Japan) and Toro Station (Japan only). Those two are free, and Tekken 5 DR just came out as a download exclusive, which is not a bad deal for 2000Yen.

It's a considerably bad deal when you factor in the price of the console. Is there some reason it's plausible that a sizable fraction of the market would buy a $600 (or marginally less in Japan) next-gen machine just for the free downloadable content? It seems like you're claiming that these games explain why lots of people would buy a PS3 and not actually buy any games for it...

For a long time there was nothing on the Live Arcade worth downloading other than Geometry Wars.

Alright, fair enough. I haven't played the 360 content myself, I just remember hearing people talk about it early on -- though Geometry Wars is the only one I know by name. In contrast, though, I wasn't even aware of the (current) downloadable content on the PS3, just that it's supposed to be cool eventually. Anyway, your listing a couple downloadable titles doesn't make it clear to me that the PS3's downloadable content is so far superior to the 360's that people would spend substantially more money and then not even get any games.

You account for the higher 360 ratio by retail bundles, whereas you say you didn't buy any games for the first year. So evidently bundling wasn't so pervasive as to keep you from doing it, but you're saying that it was a big enough obstacle that many people who would otherwise have bought the 360 by itself, and bought only 0 or 1 games over the first [substantial stretch of time], were still willing to spend substantially more on bundles just to get the system itself? Is there evidence for this? It sounds like a huge stretch. Is there any evidence at all for a substantial market of consumers who want to buy the 360 or PS3 just for downloadable and/or rented content, and would not choose to buy even a single game? In the absence of hard evidence, I'll settle for suggestive statistics of almost any kind (other than the less-than-1 PS3 tie ratio, which is what we're debating in the first place) -- it just sounds like such an implausible claim that I can't see how it would be backed up. The fact that many retailers offered the 360 as a bundle may raise the tie ratio slightly, but it hardly proves that people otherwise wouldn't have bought any games...

Re:Bazillions sold

[Anonymous Coward]

$600 (or marginally less in Japan)

"Marginally" is a bit of a stretch. PS3s in Japan are priced significantly lower than US. At the current exchange rate it comes to something more like $400-$500. Still expensive, yes. And with really no compelling launch titles I wouldn't be surprised to see people picking up the console and not buying too many games at the same time.

There are claims that importers picked up PS3s at the Japanese launch so they can ship it offshores and still make a good profit due to the price differences. Makes sense for US since PS3 games have no region locks and both Japan and US are in the same Blu-Ray movie region. Not sure about the rest of the world.

It seems like you're claiming that these games explain why lots of people would buy a PS3 and not actually buy any games for it...

There's a Linux distribution that you can install on the hard drive. Granted that probably doesn't account for a large portion of the gaming population, but I think the ratio of those geek-types would be higher at a console launch.

There are reviews of the PS3 claiming it is the best-sounding SACD player in its price range, due to some fancy filters that run on the SPEs. Audiophiles probably won't mind shelling out $400. They probably already pay that much for cables blessed under moonlight by monks.

PS3s are also backward compatible with a significantly larger library of games than a 360. Some people might have purchased a PS3 as a replacement for their PS2, with the intention of buying exclusive games later.

You discount the Blu-Ray as not significant enough reason to buy a PS3, but remember that the killer app of the Japanese PS2 launch was not a game, but the Matrix DVD. I don't see any comparable Blu-Ray releases, but early-adopter types might pick up the PS3 for this use.

My point being, there are many more uses of the PS3 than just for playing exclusive games, compared to the 360. No, I don't have any figures showing what percentage of PS3s went to these uses. But assuming they all went to auctions just because of the less-than-one tie ratio is jumping to conclusions.

I wasn't even aware of the (current) downloadable content on the PS3

Just because you weren't doesn't mean the rest of the PS3-buying population weren't either.

So evidently bundling wasn't so pervasive as to keep you from doing it

I didn't pick up a 360 until months after launch, to avoid the bundling.

The fact that many retailers offered the 360 as a bundle may raise the tie ratio slightly

Some retailers at the 360 launch were bundling as many as ten games, and didn't seem to have trouble selling them out. I think that would raise the tie ratio more than "slightly".

Re:Bazillions sold

[Roland]

I know of 3 people who bought a PS3 as a BlueRay player, and one person who bought it to play games.

I know 15 people who have bought or plan to buy a wii if they can ever find one.

DS sells out in April

[RyoShin]

As for the next fiscal year, Nintendo expect to sell around 23 million DS Lites

I predict that most of those will be sold before June.

If you think the DS is hard to find now (apparently, it's hard to keep in stock, just like the Wii), just wait until April. April sees the release of Pokemon Diamond/Pearl. The Pokemon series has always been a huge seller for both the games and the Game Boy, but these DS games also include the functionality to use WiFi to battle and trade online. Battling and trading with friends has always been a staple of the game, but you'd have to physically find someone to battle/trade with first. Now you have the entire world to choose from.

I know that's when I'll be buying my DS. (Well, a bit earlier, to beat the rush.)

Re:DS sells out in April

[Dracil]

Not quite the world. DS wi-fi are region-limited oddly enough. So if you bought it in the US you could only play wi-fi with other US players.

Re:DS sells out in April

[CoolMoDee]

This is off topic, but the game is incredible. I imported Pearl so I could practice Japanese and play a good RPG. The new battle system is incredible. I haven't played it online yet as I want to get my pokemon a bit stronger first. I wonder if the battling will be Japanese games vs Japanese games only though...

Re:DS sells out in April

[DanTheManMS]

Not quite the world. DS wi-fi are region-limited oddly enough. So if you bought it in the US you could only play wi-fi with other US players.

Then how does the "worldwide" option for the Mario Kart DS online play work, and how is it different from the "regional" option if the DS wifi is indeed region-specific?

Re:DS sells out in April

[Dracil]

Hmm, I guess I should've specified that it does depend on the game. Mario Kart is an exception.

But from the wiki: "Also, as with Game Boy games, some games that require both players to have a Nintendo DS Game Card for multiplayer play will not work together if the games are from different regions (e.g. a Japanese Nintendo DS game may not work with a North American Nintendo DS game, though some titles, such as Mario Kart DS, are mutually compatible). With the addition of the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection, certain games can be played over the Internet with users of a different region game."

For example, I do know some of my import games do not say "connect worldwide" but only say "connect with people in Japan" with no other options.

Re:DS sells out in April

[LKM]

Well, that's because some games are significantly different between regions. That's not a DS problem, it's a general problem. If a game is release in Japan, they then fix some bugs and maybe even change some gameplay elements, and release the game in Europe, the two version may not be compatible with each other anymore.

Poor Sony

[popo]

That makes their handheld killer, the loser.

And that makes their console, the loser.

All this from the company that entered this race pompously telling the world they were the top dog.

It wouldn't be utterly tragic for them if it weren't Nintendo that was kicking their ass. Nintendo
is a tiny, tiny company compared to Sony.

How soon will it be until heads roll at Sony corp?

Re:Poor Sony

[falcon5768]

Tiny compared to Sony yes, not tiny compared to Sonys game division.

People forget that Nintendo is a GAME COMPANY, while Microsoft and Sony have their hands in a much much bigger cookie jar.

The honest truth is, thats a lot of the reason why they are getting their asses kicked right now, they just throw money at a problem from other divisions while Nintendo MUST turn in a profit in the end and cant take huge risks unless they set aside enough money to because thats all they do is sell games and make systems, there is no computer line and tv line and os line. This means Nintendo's also more willing to explore things before going ahead with it, while Sony and Microsoft will just charge ahead and let their other divisions make up the loss.

Re:Poor Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony isn't really throwing profits at the problem from other divisions.

Gaming has been one of Sony's most profitable divisions for several years, due to the PS1 and PS2.

They probably have a year or two more of PS2 related profits to live on - and if the PS3 hasn't done a LOT better by then, they're in quite a bit of trouble.

In fact, for a while the Games division was supporting a number of the other less profitable Sony businesses (Sony Pictures only makes a profit when they release a new Spider Man, practically...)

Re:Poor Sony

[falcon5768]

Gaming has been one of Sony's most profitable divisions for several years, due to the PS1 and PS2.

I would love to see your numbers, because compared to Nintendo, Sony hasnt even been a 10th profitable even with owning the highest selling system. Selling your game system for a loss but selling a ton of them still means you sold your game system for a loss. Sony sold the PS2 for a loss for a number of years before manufacturing went down enough to make a profit, at which point they dropped the price.

Nintendo has never sold anything, game or system related for a loss.

The trick to it is

[the dark hero]

Try planning on driving 20 miles out of the city in order to catch one. Avoid the popular stores because the chance is slim there. Just do a little research and calling around instead of hoping to be at the right place at the right time.

Now, can anyone help me find some accessories? I can't find any wii-motes or classic controllers or anything.

Most bought for reselling?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would love to know where you got this figure. In fact let's see some figures.

Re:The trick to it is - Amazon.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon had wiimotes two days ago. I ordered one and already got it yesterday at my house. Paid for standard shipping too.

Re:DS sells out in April and June

[holycrap3007]

6/01/07 The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass nuff said

Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[WidescreenFreak]

I'd strongly recommend getting the wireless Gamecube controllers instead of the Classic controllers. At least wireless Gamecube controllers can be used with Gamecube games and they work with all of the VC games. If you buy the Classic controller, okay, it connects to the bottom of the Wiimote, so that makes it wireless, but if you want to play any GC games you'll need to buy GC controllers anyway.

I play all of my VC games with wireless GC controllers after returning the unopened Classic controllers that I bought. Haven't regretted it for a second. And now that rechargeable batteries are dropping in price, there is no reason to get the Classic controller unless you simply want it for the sake of having it ... that whole Wii "continuity" thing, I suppose.

And I've not seen a place out of stock of wireless GC controllers while the CC area remains out of stock.

Re:Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[FiloEleven]

I haven't used a Classic controller yet, but the dpad placement might make it worthwhile for me. I've always thought that the 'cube controller's dpad was a little uncomfortable, and after two hours of Toe Jam & Earl the thought is reinforced. Still, I have 4 Gamecube controllers, so unless they _destroy_ my thumb I'll stick with them. I would say that those with a big interest in Virtual Console games could do worse than to pick up 1 or 2 Classic controllers.
-f

Re:Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[RSquaredW]

I dunno, I really hate the GC controller - the D-Pad is TINY - and while I don't have a Wii yet, I'd hope that Nintendo would go back to the full-size D-Pad from the NES/SNES/N64 with the CC...especially since the CC has the D-Pad in the primary left position, rather than the secondary position like the GC controller (and the Xbox controller). Is this the case or am I going to be hunting for a 3rd party CC?

My worst memories of GC were trying to play Soul Calibur 3 and never being able to do the B+X or B+Y moves because the HUGE ASS A button was in the way. Terrible controller design for anything but the 1st party games (and Res Evil 4). After a few rounds of SC3, I managed to convince people to play the Xbox version instead.

Re:Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[WidescreenFreak]

As long as they have enough Wiimotes to plug them into. From what I've been seeing, getting additional Wiimotes appears to be a bit of a problem right now. ;)

Besides, there are 3rd party, wireless GC controller manufacturers out there. I got three genuine controllers and a smaller, 3rd party controller for my daughter. I've played several hours of Sonic and SMB with the GC controller and haven't had a problem. Admittedly, it's not like those games require a lot of controller action.

Re:Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[Cybrex]

To each his own of course, but in my experience I have to differ with you. The GC controller is acceptable (I'm hooked on Metroid Prime right now, having never even glanced at the GC's library prior to getting a Wii), but the Virtual Console games I'm finding that the classic controller is well worth the $. I have small-ish hands, and it fits perfectly and has a familiar button layout (I'm still adjusting to the GC controller). Additionally, for some VC games like R-Type III the classic controller is required.

I guess I'm lucky in that in my area the CC is almost as plentiful as the GC controller. Of course, finding the Wiimote is like looking for a unicorn. It goes without saying that I'm envious of your success in finding controllers. :-)

Re:Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[Guppy06]

Best of both worlds: I imported a Hori pad for my GameCube.

Re:Get wireless Gamecube controllers instead

[LKM]

I love the GC controller, but the d-pad was indeed a piece of shit. Fortunately, the classic controller and the wii remote have great d-pads (similar to those on the DS lite).

great - the store will never load now

[mgabrys_sf]

I'm running a high-speed wifi cable network which I'm typing on now, and as of this week - the WiiStore for buying virtual console games has been fucked. Basically the damn thing is either slow to load - or times out with a cryptic network error message. If this is how good they're doing NOW - imagine another x-million users.

Great job Nintendo.

Re:great - the store will never load now

[yermej]

I haven't been having any problems with updates or the store (just got my Wii this past Sunday - did the initial system update, downloaded the internet channel, and bought a couple VC games). If you haven't, try changing your wireless channel to 1 or 11 if possible (in the US, anyway). This is supposed to help slow/timing out connections, but I haven't needed to try it myself.

Re:great - the store will never load now

[Slazer]

I have tried this, and it does work. When I first got my Wii back in November I couldn't get on the store, a couple weeks later I actually decided to go online to see if there was a problem with my router. Found out that there were two recommended channels to use (I use channel 11 now) and it's been working like a charm since.

Re:great - the store will never load now

[mgabrys_sf]

Did it - it worked - you rock.

Thanks!

Re:DS sells out in April and June

[The-Bus]

I'm not sure if you mean Japan, but Zelda is launching in North America around October of 2007.

Elebits is a good use of the Wii remote

[Webapprentice]

It is also recommended. Red Steel is a mixed bag in the control department.

Nintendo = Not Available?

[Zaurus]

I tried to pick up a DS lite lately. I can't find one in my area. They tell me they've been out of DS's since before Christmas. And Wii's? Ya, right. I have one friend who allegedly has a friend that was able to snag one. Other than that, vaporware.

C'mon Nintendo, ramp up production already!!!

Re:Nintendo = Not Available?

[Paralizer]

Try Kmart. Last time I went to Walmart they had one of the originals left, but no lites. A few weeks ago our local Kmart has (seriously) around 30, and it didn't look like they were selling any. I guess when most people think electronics they don't think Kmart. Of course, no Wii's. However, Walmart is advertising a minimum of 5 Wii's per store on Sunday (28th).

Re:Nintendo = Not Available?

[Zaurus]

Kmart??? You're right. That's the last place I would have expected to get a DS lite. I'll have to check that out, thanks.

Re:Nintendo = Not Available?

[ShieGie]

Target is also a great place to try. I found both a handful of wii remotes and about 50 copies of wario ware there when every other store I called was out of both.

Just buy Wii Play and get Wiimote

[WillAffleckUW]

As long as they have enough Wiimotes to plug them into. From what I've been seeing, getting additional Wiimotes appears to be a bit of a problem right now. ;)

If you buy WiiPlay, you get a bundled Wiimote, plus the games - for the same price as the Wiimote by itself!

Re:Just buy Wii Play and get Wiimote

[WidescreenFreak]

But that's also assuming that you can get your hands on that! From what I've been reading, it's just as difficult to get that on pre-order as it is to get a remote!

I must have gotten really lucky. I managed to get three additional Wiimotes and an additional nunchuck within a week of each other from two different stores. :/

Re:Just buy Wii Play and get Wiimote

[WillAffleckUW]

It's a lot easier than it used to be. I picked up a second Wiimote after a few weeks of asking.

Re:DS sells out in April and June

[holycrap3007]

http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?Ntk=TitleKeywor d&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Ntt=phantom+hourglass &N=0 shows 6/01/07 ship date

Avoid the link if your IT department checks logs!

[Valdrax]

This link redirected me to a server named pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com instead of www.encyclopediadramatica.com. I just hope my job doesn't automatically red-flag employee URLs browsed through the mandatory proxy, or I may soon be out of a job.

So, thanks. Thanks for sharing that.

$Target == "My Wii" or $Out-of-the-way = "Wii"

[WidescreenFreak]

That's exactly where I got my Wii two weeks after Thanksgiving. I never expected it. In fact, I was in a Game Stop in the same plaza asking when they expected to get more Wiis in when the guy behind me said, "I just got one at Target. They got ten of them in an hour ago." Sure enough, they still had six of them on the floor -- five after I was done. :)

Another thing to do is to avoid the chain stores that are in prime locations. I got three Wiimotes and an additional nunchuck in a Toys R Us and GameStop that were in two different but not-very-popular malls. Trying to find them in a popular mall shows an immense trust in luck. I've also heard of very Wiierd :) situations where a store like Best Buy will get four or five Wiis in a city store but they'll get twenty or so in one of their out-of-the-way stores.

Of course, if you want to pay a premium, there's always eBay. :/

Re:$Target == "My Wii" or $Out-of-the-way = "Wii"

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh, here in London the "flagship" shop in the centre of town for each chainstore steals the allotment for most of the city. There are shops in the outskirts that have not had a single Wii in yet, but the flagship store gets 30 or so every week.

Like 8 bitches on a bitch boat...

[Anonymous Coward]

The 4 million manufactured would explain the large number differences between what was sold and what was promised. 800k+ consoles that didn't arrive in time for the new year certainly makes a difference.

It is disappointing that they couldn't live up to their word. They may not have flubbed as much as Sony, but they still didn't get 4 million consoles into our hands when they said they would.

However, I'm much more concerned about their ability to sell another 2 million consoles before March ends and hit 6 million. It seems within their reach, but it would be disheartening if it ended up being 6 million manufactured instead of sold. Boo-Hoo, would you like a tampon? Give me a break... This is why fanboys are bad.

Trolling?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wasn't aware that expressing something that was less than unfettered praise for a Nintendo product was deemed trolling (baselessly seeking angry responses). Well shit, let's hope they get a Constitutional amendment passed prohibiting people from defacing images of Mario too.

Re:Trolling?

[justchris]

I suspect they modded you troll because slasdot doesn't have a 'Wrong' modifier. Nintendo designed the DS with plenty of vision, but they focused on games primarily, with everything else secondary. For the PSP, gaming, music and movies were all of equal importance, and therefore they were all done equally badly. The DS only does one thing, but it does that one thing better than the competition.

Re:Get wireless Gamecube & Classic controllers

[trdrstv]

I'd strongly recommend getting the wireless Gamecube controllers instead of the Classic controllers. At least wireless Gamecube controllers can be used with Gamecube games and they work with all of the VC games. If you buy the Classic controller, okay, it connects to the bottom of the Wiimote, so that makes it wireless, but if you want to play any GC games you'll need to buy GC controllers anyway.

You know, I agree to a point but I like the mix of both.

I have a Gamecube, and I now have 5 Wavebirds. Yeah 5. 4 on the Wii which I use to play Gamecube games on (in progressive scan) and 1 on my Gamecube that is now a full time Gameboy Player. Technically, I'm using 4 Wavebirds and 5 receivers since the GC one is set to the same channel as the player one on the Wii.

Now, I couldn't IMAGINE playing any N64 games with the classic controller, as it is poorly designed for it. The 'Dual Shock Design' is piss poor for use in 3D games. It is however superior for 2D games.

Considering the Virtual console is mostly made up of 8 or 16 bit consoles designed around 2D games, I think it's well worth it to pick up one or 2 classic controllers to get the best experiance with them.

Wii Sports = Fun Workout

[LKM]

I play about half an hour of Wii Boxing every day. I put small weights on my wrists (you can buy these at sports shops), and I can tell you, after 15 minutes, I'm sweating like a pig and my heart rate is pretty high. Obviously, you could just sit down, but it's a lot more fun while standing, especially for Boxing, which really requires you to move your body left and right to dodge hits.

And yes, I'm hoping there will be more "physical" sports games. There's another Golf game, but I'm guess it won't do too much in that regard. Wario Ware works somewhat, but not as well as Wii Sports. Dunno about Madden, I think Football games are just confusing (I'm not American, so I don't really get the rules).

They could produce more, but don't want to

[LKM]

I'm guessing that Nintendo probably could easily ramp up production. However, sooner or later, a large part of the "launch demand" will be satisfied, and they'll end up with production capacities way above what they need. You can't adjust production capacity to meet demand during the launch period, bcause it will always be very high. It's just bad business.

But you are right, they should at least meet Gamecube production.

Re:Avoid the link if your IT department checks log

[wheany]

Stop browsing Slashdot and get back to work, you lazy fuck.

Classic Controller == much better d-pad

[LKM]

Yep, the classic controller has a great d-pad (seems to be the same as the one on the DS lite). It totally blows the Cube's d-pad away. OTOH, the classic controller has the awkward "sony-style" analog controller placement. Can't have it all, I guess.

Re:Avoid the link if your IT department checks log

[Anonymous Coward]

Feh. An employer that uptight isn't worth working for.