Slashdot Mirror
British Police Identify Killer in Radiation Case
reporter writes "According to a front-page story by The Guardian, British authorities have identified Andrei Lugovoi to be the murderer who used radioactive pollonium-210 to kill Andrei Litvinenko. The British government will ask Moscow to extradite Lugovoi. The Guardian states: 'Associates of the dead man have repeatedly accused President Vladimir Putin's government of being behind his murder, a claim the Kremlin rejects. While it is known that detectives believe they have uncovered evidence pointing to Mr Lugovoi's involvement, it is not clear whether they have established a motive for the murder'"
because not only is he interested in high tech assassination, he's also in favor of Open Sores.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
What the hey does this have to do with Your Rights Online?
More like... nerdular nerdence!
Haha! Busted. He left a radioactive trail all over London, even in an airplane he travelled on. He's the only person who can be tied to all the locations they've found traces of radioactive polonium. Of course, he's claiming someone set him up by following him around and dropping the stuff wherever he went. We'll see if the Russians will hand him over. If they don't, it's gonna look mighty suspicious. If they do, he's gonna say Putin put him up to it, whether he did or not.
The UK may have to hand over a scummy billionaire who profited immensely off of the rush to privatize Russia, which would be cool: two scumbags busted for the price of one.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I think this is a real test case of whether the notion of the UK as a nation holds any actual power in the World. The Russian constitution, as I understand it, obliges the Russian government NOT to render Russian citizens for extradition, despite the fact that in Britain the defendent will assuredly recieve a fair trial (either in the UK or by analogy to the Lockerbie case, in a third country).
If the Russian government DID sponsor an assassination within British territory, it is an affront to our sovereignty and should be exposed. If on the other hand it was NOT, then it is equally desirable that the Russian government be cleared of that.
If the UK does not take a strong, principled stand on this issue, then I feel that our identity of "British" is very probably meaningless.
10:1 this guy dies mysteriously or disappears.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
There was absolutely no need for the James Bond style assasination. Why not just shoot the bugger using a silencer? Advantages of using a gun:
1. Weapon doesn't decay.
2. Don't need to visit a nuclear reactor (which will have very restricted access on) to get one.
3. Doesn't leave a HUGE trail of everywhere you have been with it.
4. Less chance of target surving long enough to give full description of you.
This assasination was far too elaborate...
Could we change the Slashdot headline to say they have charged someone. Legally a representative of the police or any legal branch of a government, would not say "We've identified the killer". It is up to the courts to decide if he killed someone, not the police. The police can only supply evidence to the prosecutor and a jury will decide if he did it or not.
I suspect the Russian government knows full well that the British Government can't hand over Boris Berezovsky. That's why they're likely to make the request. It's not, on the face of it, unreasonable. Just legally impossible. But Britain's "refusal" to hand him over will mean that Russia has a better bargaining position. They can push Britain into offering an alternative of greater value.
A traditional staged mugging or hit and run style assassination doesn't send the same kind of message: "we've got radiological weapons and can deploy them in the heart of one of the West's greatest cities".
The method of this assassination was intended to create a specific kind of fear among people who pay attention to these sorts of things. Putin's transformation of Russia is nearly complete.
Should it even be a homicide investigation or a smuggling investigation? Why would anyone poison someone with many more times the amount required to kill them with a material that is so expensive and easy to trace? There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier ways to kill someone. Ways that would garner much less attention.
Why poison the person multiple times when one time would be enough? We know it's multiple times because the police believe it to be multiple exposures. How would they know this unless the decay or signatures were different between exposures?
The amount is very puzzling. The amount is a huge amount of the material. It was so much that it left a blemish in the tea cup. Something on orders of 100 watts of heat from the Po-210.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but it seems to me there has to be much more to this story. What were these guys really up to?
Actually, it was a perfect assassination. Did you see how the guy perished? All his hair fell out. He sat in a hospital bed for a tremendous amount of time. He suffered. He bled internally.
Why was it a perfect assassination? Because it involved radiation which inherently causes anyone to shiver, and it caused a slow, painful, agonizing death, which sends about as big of a message as publicly drawing and quartering the guy.
Lindsay Blanton
RadioReference.com
You arrest me, and I will irradiate you all! Muhahahaha... enjoy your sushi, judge!(disappears in a cloud of green phosphorescent smoke)
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Already, the Russians are claiming that it's against their Constitution to allow extraditions. (Read the last paragraph in the article.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
In fact, this is the whole problem: to Russia, the concept of an independent judiciary is not credible.
Wikileaks, no DNS
Disclaimer: IAAP (I Am A Physicist)
Just think - if you could buy as much polonium 210 as what was used against Litvinenko, do you really think that any postage service would want to deliver a radioactive package?
Actually, Polonium 210 is an alpha emitter, which means it's quite safe unless you ingest or inhale it (at which point even small amounts become deadly). Just putting it in a paper bag would shield you from much of the radiation. As long as it was securely packaged, I don't think it would be unsafe to mail.
- Federal Security Bureau
- Russian Mafia that Litvinenko tried to blackmail
- Suicide to blame Putin
- Americans or other enemies of Russia
- Accident when smuggling radioactive materials
Option #5 seems to be the most popular one. I know this poll is not very representative, but it certainly beats your coworker's opinion... Tschuss...you obviously didnt read my original post, as i, myself, made reference to the talkorigins page you linked. and no, its not debunked. its a very in depth area of studies, and its so easy for anyone to put up a page that says 'debunked', because there are so few people that could look at their research and know enough about the field to validate it -- in other words, peer review.
robert v gentry has no problem putting his data into peer review publications such as nature and science -- and trust me, if there were someone that could debunk his findings for sure, they themselves would have put it in nature or science because they'd loooove to be the person that debunks gentry in the same exact journals hes posted his work in.
but alas, nope. no refuting has been done in anything peer review. only on talkorigins, which is blatantly a anticreationist site with a deceptively named domain.
When can afford any method, there's no need to use a traceable one unless you want it to be traced. Even a bullet is less traceable than Polonium-210.
So... Every single one of these is written by the same guy?
As detailed in Litvinenko's book (with Yuri Felshtinsky) published right after he was poisoned to death _Blowing Up Russia_, Russia's KGB (by whatever new name disguises it) has been working against the conversion to democracy, especially since KGB exec Putin replaced Yeltsin the drunken reformer. According to Litvinenko before he died (reported in the book), he was being chased and then killed for reporting on the faked 1999 "apartment bombings" in Moscow and elsewhere in Russia which the KGB staged to get Yeltsin to invade Chechnya on the pretext of "Islamic terrorism". The book is banned (and was confiscated) in Russia.
"Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton with Funkadelic
--
make install -not war
You can also buy anti-static devices with (potentially lethal) quantities of Po-210 embedded in them. But the Po-210 is embedded in metal foil, and is quite difficult to extract.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
First, a disclaimer. This is an opinion. Don't read it as gospel, but instead try to research a little and come to your own conclusions.
Sorry, I just don't buy it. I've read about the death of Litvinenko, and I've done a little homework into this guy's history that seems interesting. I'm not going to delve too deeply in the details, but it seems to me that it's quite probable that this whole thing was a publicity stunt.
Yeah, a guy's dead. But this guy has a history of being violently opposed to the current Russian administration. His history shows him trying a number of times to discredit and/or destroy the Putin-controlled government. He was involved with a number of groups with the same goal, particularly in London.
Now, honestly if you were a member of the Russian government who wanted rid of a thorny problem, how would you do it? Kill the guy with a bullet through the head, or use a traceable, unusual and likely highly public method of killing someone? It seems to me that the FSB would have been quite capable of putting a bullet in Litvinenko's brain pan at any time and suddenly this thorny problem goes away. Besides, it seems from my reading that Litvinenko was no more or less of a problem to the Russian government than most of his other brothers in his societies and groups in England. To say that Litvinenko was such a problem to the government that they'd want to kill him at all is I think inflating his importance.
Now, if you as a group wanted to make a statement that would have worldwide coverage regarding the inhumanity of Putin's government, how better to do it than to have one of your own lay down his/her life in a particularly odd and highly newsworthy fashion? And if you can show that your martyr has been moving around because his movements are particularly traceable then you've just scored extra bonus points.
Litvinenko's death was painful, slow and highly newsworthy. The BBC was all over it... I know. I live in the US but I still enjoy the BBC podcasts every day on my way to work... it was all over the BBC world service for weeks. It seems awfully convenient that a guy who has been extremely vocal in his opposition to Putin's government would meet an end that so amply demonstrates precisely the message he and his colleagues were trying to convey (if it's true, of course). The media coverage also somewhat reeked of an orchestrated media blitz, it was just too perfect.
Now, as for where they got the polonium-210... well, after the fall of the Soviet Union much of the nuclear material that had existed within the country's borders was probably sold off around the world in order to support the orphaned communities who suddenly had very few ways of supporting themselves. It's not such a stretch to think that a sufficiently organized group with enough funding could find a sufficient quantity of polonium-210 on the black market to take the life of one of their own in a massive political statement.
Now, I'm still a little on the fence on this one. I'd say 60% chance that the above is what happened, but I still maintain a 40% possibility that what the media told us about the FSB poisoning Litvinenko was true. Perhaps it was to make a statement to all of those colleagues of Litvinenko that they need to quiet down... but it seems to me that a handful of bullets and a few key members of the groups getting lynched would be cheaper, quicker, cleaner and send the same message effectively. The whole polonium poisoning thing just seems overkill for a government, but seems like a perfect way for a radical group to send a message. It's just a more sophisticated suicide bomber.
As I stated above, this is an opinion. Don't take it as gospel.
Gentryfication.