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Viacom Claims Copyright On Irrlicht Video

stinkytoe writes in with the news that Nikolaus Gebhardt, developer of the cross-platform game engine library Irrlicht, recently had one of his video tutorials taken off of YouTube. A thread on Irrlicht's forum contains a copy of the takedown notice. From Gebhardt's blog: "Viacom, the corporation behind MTV, DreamWorks and Paramount is now claiming they own the copyright on a video of an Irrlicht tutorial. Which is completely ridiculous, of course: The whole thing has been written by me and the Irrlicht team, even textures and skins and logos have been created by me, and an Irrlicht Engine user... simply filmed and published it on YouTube.com. Here is a screenshot of the tutorial, it's really just a 2D GUI rendered using the 3D engine, nothing special at all."

258 comments

  1. Woops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    They must have gotten carried away. Quick guys, copyright your wedding videos and personal amateur porn before they do!

    1. Re:Woops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Quick guys, copyright your wedding videos and personal amateur porn before they do!

      Make no difference to these grasping, overreaching bastards.

      How about a countersuit for losing a contract when a potential client saw the material was not available.

    2. Re:Woops... by kaizenfury7 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thankfully my wedding video and personal amateur porn is the same video.

      ...

      ...

      Goddamnit, use the INSIDE voice...the INSIDE voice!

    3. Re:Woops... by dougmc · · Score: 2, Informative

      They must have gotten carried away. Quick guys, copyright your wedding videos and personal amateur porn before they do! To be fair, they're probably already copyrighted. That is, unless 1) you've explicitly released them into the public domain, or 2) created them before 1989. (And I'm not sure exactly what `created' means in this context. Perhaps you filmed it in 1945, but didn't upload it to youtube until 2006? (whoa!, that looks like those old photos of grandma! and what's that goat doing to her? ew!) The uploaded version would clearly be a derivitave work, but I'm guessing that putting it into another tangible form would mean it's automatically copyrighted right then even if it wasn't originally.)


      Obviously Viacom merely made a mistake. Expect an apology soon. DMCA being abused? That's hardly news anymore -- it happens every day. This would appear to be one step below that -- a simple mistake.

    4. Re:Woops... by iamacat · · Score: 1

      You would surely appreciate the ability to quickly remove your personal amateur porn from YouTube if Viacom posted it without your permission. And if you mistook someone else's vagina for your wife's, well a) Viacom can just send mail to YouTube and restore it and b) you in a hell of a lot trouble at home.

    5. Re:Woops... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      Anybody want to start emailing takedown notices to Viacom's ISP?
      Or if anybody here pwns their own botnet, DoS the bastards for us, huh?

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    6. Re:Woops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can see the preview here

      http://tinyurl.com/23pt3a

    7. Re:Woops... by noidentity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Quick guys, copyright your wedding videos and personal amateur porn before they do!"

      That's somewhat of a problem, because they are automatically copyrighted when you make them. Even my lame post here is copyrighted. Permission-based culture indeed.

    8. Re:Woops... by tubapro12 · · Score: 1

      My Taiwanese servers are still down...

    9. Re:Woops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Thankfully my wedding video and personal amateur porn is the same video.

      Tonya Harding, is that you??? :)

    10. Re:Woops... by Squiffy · · Score: 1

      "Expect an apology soon."

      Large corporations very rarely apologize for anything they do, no matter how vile. Expecting an apology from Viacom is like expecting a tiger to tear your throat open gently.

    11. Re:Woops... by den479 · · Score: 1

      REAL WAR: ROGUE STATES by viacom...could it be because they are in compitition with the accused

    12. Re:Woops... by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 1

      Man, I've got to start going to your church... ;-)

      Which one was it again?

      --
      Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
    13. Re:Woops... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Quick guys, copyright your wedding videos and personal amateur porn before they do!"

      That's somewhat of a problem, because they are automatically copyrighted when you make them. Even my lame post here is copyrighted. Permission-based culture indeed.
      Look mom, I'm a criminal!
  2. if you want to bake a cake by stoolpigeon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    you have to break a few eggs
     
    they don't care if there is a little collateral damage in this war against 'piracy'

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    1. Re:if you want to bake a cake by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      they don't care if there is a little collateral damage in this war against 'piracy'
      Well, I'm hoping that some of this "scatter shot" technique being used by the media companies in their so called war on piracy starts backfiring. I'd like to see them become some of the collateral damage, and for the lawmakers to reign them in and make them have a higher evidentiary burden.

      As it is, they basically get to threaten anyone without any justification or consequence. It's getting absurd, really.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:if you want to bake a cake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well, I'm hoping that some of this "scatter shot" technique being used by the media companies in their so called war on piracy[...]
      AKA the bukkake technique.
    3. Re:if you want to bake a cake by soft_guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hope there are penalties for fraudulent takedown notices.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    4. Re:if you want to bake a cake by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Dognabbit! Motherchicken, turkey baster, Barbra Striesand!!!

      Sorry to be so vile but I thought we were making an omlette.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    5. Re:if you want to bake a cake by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I would say that THEY committed an act of piracy. They seized control of another persons property without authorization, and claimed it as their own.

    6. Re:if you want to bake a cake by captaincucumber · · Score: 1

      I don't know about cake, but I do know that if you want to make an omelet you have to break a few legs.

    7. Re:if you want to bake a cake by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      They are apparently filed "under penalty of perjury" (at least that's what the notice says) so whoever filed it should be prosecuted for perjury.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    8. Re:if you want to bake a cake by iminplaya · · Score: 0

      Well, I'm hoping that some of this "scatter shot" technique being used by the media companies in their so called war on piracy starts backfiring.

      Not very likely as long as people like Hatch and Feinstein keep getting re-elected. And it doesn't look like this will be an election issue any time soon. I hope I'm wrong, but this kind of thing is a little easier to predict than the weather.

      --
      What?
    9. Re:if you want to bake a cake by Shai-kun · · Score: 1

      "You can't make an omelette without, uh, flattening a forest?" - Black Mage

      --
      ...or so I've been told.
    10. Re:if you want to bake a cake by twifosp · · Score: 1

      Dude you just used: ...media companies... and ...lawmakers to reign them in... in the same paragraph. Wish I had mod points. +5 funny to you.

    11. Re:if you want to bake a cake by den479 · · Score: 1

      IANAL but isn't defamation of character liable for civil penalties. If someone accused me of pirating copywritten works, especially in regards to legitimate instructional information published for my customers I would be pissed.

    12. Re:if you want to bake a cake by Lectrik · · Score: 1

      They are apparently filed "under penalty of perjury" (at least that's what the notice says) so whoever filed it should be prosecuted for perjury.
      unfortunately [from the posted copy of the notice] :

      A statement under penalty of perjury that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled.
      is only mentioned as a requirement for the counter-notice to un-take-down the not-actually-infringinging-but-we-needed-a-nice-bi g-round-number-for-the-press-release item in question.

      If only the law required that same item for take-down notices [I would rather not have to read the section in question because large amounts of legalese makes me want to stab people in the face]
      --
      --- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
    13. Re:if you want to bake a cake by Lectrik · · Score: 1
      Wow, I did find it with all the stupid pointers in the law it's located at... 17 U.S.C. Section 512 (c)(3)(A)(vi)

      (A) To be effective under this subsection, a notification of claimed infringement must be a written communication provided to the designated agent of a service provider that includes substantially the following:
       
      ...

      (ii) Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site.

      (iii) Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate the material.
       
      ...

      (v) A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.

      (vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
      for anyone who doesn't feel like searching through the mess.

      It looks like they [Viacom/the representative] has to provide an identification of both the allegedly infringing work (the adress on YouTube) and the allegedly infringed work (I can't think of anything since I haven't touched Irrlicht in more than a year so I don't think my tutorial 5 is the same)
      --
      --- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
  3. Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Karzz1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you elect to send us a counter notice, to be effective it must be a written communication provided to our designated agent...

    So this means that the media companies can falsely claim copyright to *any* material and the publisher is provided an email by youtube. However, in order to counter, you (the publisher) have to send a snailmail to them and wait how long before something is done about it? Are you even guarenteed a response?

    This is complete and utter bullshit. As we have seen in other articles this only provides the media companies with the means to takedown *anything* posted on youtube or any other similar site for that matter for any reason whatsoever. Talk about Freedom of Speech and anti-trust* issues.

    * -- If I don't like something that is said about my product online... I can simply have it taken down with the DMCA.

    --
    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    1. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      * -- If I don't like something that is said about my product online... I can simply have it taken down with the DMCA.

      No, Viacom can do this. You can't afford to go to court over bogus takedown notices every week.

      The law, of course, favors the megalithic entity, because they're the ones who pay for it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the basic idea is to flood these organisations with take down notices where you believe that "your" copyright "may" have been "violated".

      Then it is up to the Viacom's/Time-Warner/Sony to whinge to YouTube or whoever.

      Flood 'em with paperwork.

    3. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by bugnuts · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That is how the DMCA works. The point is that it holds the carrier (in this case, Youtube) harmless as long as they comply. Generally, the carrier of the alleged copyrighted works will comply and give the "owner" an opportunity to fight it. The point is, you can fight it, and should within the law. If they throw a bureacracy at them, show them you're merely a concerned citizen with too much time on his hands and fight back. Hell, if they don't back down, file a federal lawsuit and demand their evidence. Subpoena their CEO and force them to spend thousands to quash it. Settle only when they give you written agreement never to issue another takedown notice to you for the video or another other video covered by your produce.

      Free speech doesn't include copyrighted material, and you should know that. But this type of thing shows yet another manner that the DMCA can be used to harass or silence legitimate speech.

    4. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by pairo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Free speech doesn't include copyrighted material, and you should know that. But this type of thing shows yet another manner that the DMCA can be used to harass or silence legitimate speech.
      Actually, in the US, it does. It's called Fair Use.
      I don't really see much connection between that and the GP's comment, though. Moreso, this has nothing to do with free speech, since they're not censoring you, you can have your stuff reinstated and they'll have to sue next. Not to mention that you can counter-sue.
    5. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      this only provides the media companies with the means to takedown *anything*

      Takedown notices are provided under penalty of perjury. In order to take things down that they don't hold the copyright to, like in this instance, they need to commit a crime.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    6. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by pairo · · Score: 1

      I take that back. I see what he's saying, and fair use applies there.
      I should really learn how to read one of these days...

    7. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Agreed that this is bullshit. IANAL but is there some way they can sue Viacom for falsely claiming to own the copyright, and asking for damages based on the marketing value of the video being posted on YouTube for the duration it has been down?

      I'm curious what Viacom's response would be if I sent a letter out claiming I had the rights to their properties.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    8. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Misch · · Score: 2, Informative

      The DMCA that declarations of ownership have to be done under penalty of perjury.

      --

      --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
    9. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by jmcharry · · Score: 1

      Actually, the notice allows a reply by email if you provide and electronic "signature".

    10. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by terrymr · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough the perjury thing rarely applies because :

      Big corporation owns ABC

      You post XYZ

      Big coporation serves notice saying that under penalty of perjury they own the copyright on ABC. XYZ appears to infringe this copyright and must be taken down.

      See how it works? - they only thing they swear to is ownership of ABC, not that XYZ is in fact a copy of ABC.

    11. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      So this means that the media companies can falsely claim copyright to *any* material and the publisher is provided an email by youtube. However, in order to counter, you (the publisher) have to send a snailmail to them and wait how long before something is done about it? Are you even guarenteed a response?

      Yes! We've seen this before. It's how the DMCA works. And it rather naively seems to assume that nobody would mistakenly or maliciously claim that they own the copyright to something they don't. Other legal systems have specifically rejected this type of clause because of the problems the DMCA causes for legitimate content.

    12. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flood them with false takedown requests, the courts aren't going to be trying thousands of perjury trials per day. Give the RIAA a taste of their own medicine.

    13. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by zornorph · · Score: 1

      Bored? Need something to do?

      1) Copyright a poem/song/home movie
      2) Search through media company's catalogs for titles with matching keywords
      3) DMCA takedown notice
      4) No idea if there's any profit, but hey, it would appear that all it takes is an email to remove things you don't like from the Internet (temporarily). No need for zombie PCs etc. If it comes back up, send another takedown notice from a different address.

      --
      http://bike.stu.ph/rides - free GPS routes available for Garmin, Magellan, GPX and Google Earth
    14. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by frdmfghtr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, Viacom can do this. You can't afford to go to court over bogus takedown notices every week.

      The law, of course, favors the megalithic entity, because they're the ones who pay for it.
      Maybe that's the point.

      If the big media companies keep doing this to quality, independent content producers, then the independents won't be so inclined to use sites like YouTube to distribute their content, since there's a good chance that it will be mistakenly taken down, and restoration takes a while and more effort than the content is worth.

      Thus, Big Media poisons a new outlet that is outside their control, for media that is also outside their control.

      (Not trying to be a tinfoil-hat-conspiracy-theorist, but raising a point of discussion.)
      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    15. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      The DMCA that declarations of ownership have to be done under penalty of perjury.

      Which rarely gets charged. You should not expect the charge of perjury to be leveled on your behalf, even if the perjury is performed under oath in the presence of a judge with the evidence of it clear to all present; level the charge yourself.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    16. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by OWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

      This was hashed out in a Slashdot interview with a copyright lawyer. If you're sending a notice to an ISP saying that "You're hosting work 'A' which is an unauthorized copy of my work 'X', take it down", the perjury part only applies to your ownership claim of 'X'. For example, if I put up a copy of OpenOffice and my ISP gets a takedown notice from MS saying "You're hosting an unauthorized copy of MS-Office, which we swear we own" then MS is free and clear. They /do/ own the copyright for MS-Office. And it's /hardly/ their fault that they mistook OpenOffice and MS-Office. Whoops. No harm, no foul!

      I agree the system is broken, I just wanted to clarify the perjury part.

      -jdm

    17. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      If they throw a bureacracy at them, show them you're merely a concerned citizen with too much time on his hands and fight back.

      What concerned citizen has too much time on their hands?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    18. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Karzz1 · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's the point.

      That was exactly the point -- You, however, put it much more eloquently than I :)

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    19. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Karzz1 · · Score: 1

      Free speech doesn't include copyrighted material, and you should know that.

      *Blush* I do know that, but in my effort to make a speedy post overlooked the blatent error :/

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    20. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      So, in theory I could say that a company's website had a copy of something I legitimately owned and they get taken down and I can't be charged with fraud?

      Excellent! Microsoft.com is currently hosting a picture of a picture of my dog that i took in fourth grade. Please shut them down.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    21. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by mandelbr0t · · Score: 1

      There's only one argument missing here: the DMCA does nothing to prevent actual copyright infringement. If I want to host a video that's clearly infringing on the MAFIAA's copyright, then I'll host it on my own server, with no logs (I might not have common carrier status, but I'm still my own ISP) with no public access, stored on an encrypted drive. Have all the bots you want, I laugh at you thus: "Arrrr!". It just goes to display, yet again, another ill-conceived idea that mistakenly identifies the innocent as guilty, and still no closer to the real infringers.

      --
      "Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
    22. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      >for the video or another other video covered by your produce

      That would be awesome...You could overlay a few carrots and lima beans onto feature films and upload them to YouTube without fear of lawsuits!

    23. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Elektroschock · · Score: 1
      The problem is of course how wrong claims are punished.

      Currently the European Union discusses the Second Intellectual Property Rights enforcement Directive in the Legal Affairs Committee. This new piece of legislation will also throw criminal measures into the arena.

      My favourite:

      Article 7 Joint investigation teams
      The Member States must ensure that the holders of intellectual property rights
      concerned, or their representatives, and experts, are allowed to assist the investigations carried out by joint investigation teams into the offences referred to in Article 3.

      Article 8
      Initiation of criminal proceedings
      Member States shall ensure that the possibility of initiating investigations into, or prosecution of, offences covered by Article 3 are not dependent on a report or accusation made by a person subjected to the offence, at least if the acts were committed in the territory of the Member State.
      (Amended proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on criminal measures aimed at ensuring the enforcement of intellectual property rights - Document COM(2006)0168 - Procedure 2005/0127(COD)

    24. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by dtfinch · · Score: 1

      "damages based on the marketing value of the video being posted on YouTube for the duration it has been down"

      I can't imagine that amounting to very much. I'd ask for punitive damages.

    25. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whatever. quit your god damned crying.
      sue the fuckshit out of the pricks, then piss on their grave.

      i refuse to believe that these monsters will be granted free reign over the legal system indefinitely. the collective jackass content owners of the world will have their day, thanks to complete asshattery like this.

    26. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      More people should just rename their files to usher.mp3.

    27. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Free speech doesn't include copyrighted material, and you should know that.

      Except, of course, for the fact that free speech (not to mention all speech) is itself copyrighted -- by the person who spoke it.

      ...Or did you mean to write something more precise?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    28. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by statusbar · · Score: 1

      Okay, so then can I notify the internet provider for disney.com and tell them that their new cartoon is violating my copyright because I say that they stole the character from my demo reels? Will Disney's internet provider follow the DMCA and shut off the relevant part of www.disney.com? Do they have to under the DMCA? If so, this could be fun...

      --jeffk++

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    29. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      So this means that the media companies can falsely claim copyright to *any* material and the publisher is provided an email by youtube. However, in order to counter, you (the publisher) have to send a snailmail to them and wait how long before something is done about it? Are you even guarenteed a response?

      Um, "written" includes e-mail. Why else would it require a "physical or electronic signature", for one?

      And you send YouTube the counterclaim, not the publisher. YouTube has a motive in keeping content up, so you're more likely to get a response than Viacom was.

    30. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "You can't afford to go to court over bogus takedown notices every week." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! PRO BONO. Plenty of upstart lawyers are READY to get their name in the media for stomping all over Big Biz's balls and winning just like a 14 year old whipped Jack Thompson on an internet forum and reduced him to whining and crying and threatening like a little bitch. I wish spark-gap emitters were legal means of protest, but nooo.. the FCC can jilt you anytime you want, even if your car isn't properly tuned up due to interference it may cause.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    31. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Don't be silly. Disney wrote the law!

      Actually, youtube have no obligation to remove it either. The only problem is, if they don't, they could be held liable for damages.

    32. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      [tin-foil hat]
      This isn't about "Viacom, the media company" forcing the take down of some random person's material.
      This is about "Viacom, the video game company" forcing the take down of a competing game engine's material.
      [/tin-foil hat]

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    33. Re:Anti-competitive and suppresses free speech... by bugnuts · · Score: 1

      Except, of course, for the fact that free speech (not to mention all speech) is itself copyrighted -- by the person who spoke it. That is not correct. It must be placed into a fixed medium. Spoken words are not copyrighted unless recorded. (Hey! I just violated your copyright on your post :-)

      We really do need an overhaul of both copyrights and patents, including a good and fair definition of Fair Use, possibly even making Fair Use a right instead of a defense.
  4. Theft? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

    So, aside from filing a lawsuit to recover the DMCA's "oops" damages, can they also file charges of theft for Viacom attempting to steal the property part of their intellectual property?

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  5. Can't resist... by physicsboy500 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "All your base are belong to us!" Sincerly - Viacom

    --
    The original generic sig.
  6. That's not all... by ack154 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apparently Viacom owns the rights to a few people eating dinner as well.

    1. Re:That's not all... by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

      I cannot view either your link or the original Irrlicht video on youtube. At least your link says "Now loading" but never does. The Irrlicht video has a disclaimer it has been removed. Why don't either of these two just post the original video on their own hosted website? If need be, it's far easier handling future requests to remove that content with your own provider than through youtube. I followed many links in Irrlicht and could not find the original video. Direct links off the original hosts website anyone?

      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    2. Re:That's not all... by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

      Well, at least for this video, I had to do some searching on his blog to find the original. He has it hosted on google video:

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-253426714 6249503217

      Yes, now I'm a believer. It would appear Viacom wants not only to control youtube, but our tubes as well.

      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    3. Re:That's not all... by cashman73 · · Score: 1
      It looks like youtube has found Viacom to be in error and reinstated the sunday night dinner video. There is no copyright violation posted, though the video still doesn't load. I guess they went from DMCA'ed to slashdotted in less than a day,... ;-)

      The copyright notice is still there on the Irrlicht video tutorial, though.

    4. Re:That's not all... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      A statement under penalty of perjury that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled.
      IANAL, but it sounds to me like they want you to indemnify them for their mistake, thereby excusing them from a charge of perjury themselves, while opening you up for such a charge as well. Don't excuse them for their actions. Get your own lawyer.
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    5. Re:That's not all... by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

      Seems like they have a spider looking for names of artists or properties they represent auto-DMCAing Youtube on any dictionary search matches. Apparently Viacom has an artist named Leon Redbone. Anyway, they chose poorly in this case, as the video poster is a former Berkman Fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School.

      John Palfrey, the director of the Berkman Center, weighs in with several relevant blog posts.

      Looks like Viacom has succeeded in bringing attention from legal academic circles to the DMCA takedown process. This will probably be a good thing in the long run, it will just air out more problems with the DMCA and clarify the need for more protections from malicious use of this tool.

    6. Re:That's not all... by flonker · · Score: 1

      IANAL, as most people aren't, but I would think mistake would have no intent, and misidentification may have intent.

  7. Sue them? by PineGreen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can't he sue them? Surely they are appropriating something that is clearly not theirs?

    1. Re:Sue them? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can't he sue them? Surely they are appropriating something that is clearly not theirs?

      They haven't "appropriated" anything. They've done a shitty job of trying to ID Viacom copyrights on YouTube, and the spineless pussies at YouTube / Google have folded to their blanket take-down requests instead of demanding more solid proof. YouTube /Google are now the Official Bitches of Viacom

      Sure, Viacom needs to improve their accuracy in automatically IDing their stuff, but the weight of the balme needs to land square on YouTube for a complete lack of spine.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  8. For a little perspective by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I give you, courtesy Wikipedia, the List of Assets owned by Viacom.

    Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 17.1).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 17.1).Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 17.1).Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 17.1).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 17.1).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 22.6).

    Internet

    * MTVi Group
    * Nickelodeon Online
    * BET.com
    * Contentville.com (35%)
    * Neopets
    * GameTrailers
    * iFilm
    * Xfire

    Film production and distribution

    * Paramount Pictures Corporation
    o Paramount Vantage
    o Paramount Classics
    * MTV Films
    * Nickelodeon Movies
    * Republic Pictures (or Republic Entertainment, Inc.)
    * DreamWorks, LLC (or Dreamworks SKG)
    o Go Fish Pictures
    * Paramount Home Entertainment

    Television networks

    * MTV
    * Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite
    * Nick GAS
    * Nicktoons TV
    * TV Land
    * CMT
    * Spike TV
    * VH1
    * Noggin/The N
    * BET
    * Comedy Central
    * LOGO
    * MTV Networks International (includes TMF, VIVA and Paramount Comedy)

    Publishing

    * Famous Music

    Television production and distribution

    * DreamWorks Television (following DreamWorks acquisition, to become part of CBS Paramount Television in 2006)

    Miscellaneous Assets

    * Bubba Gump Shrimp Company
    * Cinema International Corporation or CIC
    o United International Pictures or UIP
    * MTVN Direct
    * Viacom Consumer Products

    "List of assets owned by Viacom." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 25 Jan 2007, 23:34 UTC. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 6 Feb 2007 <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of _assets_owned_by_Viacom&oldid=103256937>.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:For a little perspective by noidentity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ahahaha, your post is the best goddamn protest of Slashdot's lameness filter. I love it! Feed the computer its own stupid replies until it gives in.

    2. Re:For a little perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you so much for citing the particular revision of the wikipedia article. Most people don't understand why that's important.

    3. Re:For a little perspective by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Ahahaha, your post is the best goddamn protest of Slashdot's lameness filter. I love it! Feed the computer its own stupid replies until it gives in.

      Well, normally I would use Lorem Ipsum (having grown up with layout/pasteup) but I decided that it would take too long so I just did a lot of copy and paste.

      Anyway, a working lameness filter would make sure you couldn't see slashdot at all...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:For a little perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is so strange to me. I've been posting here for months and I've never encountered this filter, aside from 'posting too fast'. I thought there was a bug in the system or something that caused your post to be filled with garbage.

    5. Re:For a little perspective by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Hah. The lameness filter in itself shows how lame /. editors are, in truth. If they can't stand properly-formatted crap, perhaps we should just leave this site and start our own? No?? Not enough resources? Amongst HOW MANY REGISTERED /. IDs?

      Seriously. I love this site as much as the next geek, but some of this other crap has got to stop. "Slow down, Cowboy, you're posting too fast within the reply page loading!"

      Maybe I don't have THAT FUCKING MUCH TO SAY and better things to do with my time than WAIT to post a quick and simple response! /. editors are NOT human, I swear.

      Ooops, no perjury here, I'm not in a court of law. Just in a land that talks alot about it and never does much to try to change it.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  9. Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Isn't Viacom the company that just told YouTube to remove something like 100,000 video clips of its stuff? They probably just ran some searches and came up with yours by mistake, although it'd be nice to know why.

    IANAL, but I believe that they can simply file a DMCA Counter Notice and make Viacom put up or shut up--hopefully that would be enough to make them realize that they've misidentified the clip as being something of theirs.

    1. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya, welcome to the party. Jackets in the back room, punch in the kitchen, beer on the deck.

      This is PART of that 100,000 take-down thing... that's the whole point of the story!

    2. Re:Stupid by Monkeyman334 · · Score: 1

      although it'd be nice to know why.

      This is Slashdot. Obviously, Viacom is afraid of YouTube's popularity competing with Viacom's. So they send a broad DMCA (they bought it for a reason!) takedown notice in order to YouTube. Duh.

    3. Re:Stupid by Monkeyman334 · · Score: 2, Funny

      *Ahem* in order to hurt YouTube.

      Like I said, this is Slashdot.

  10. Possible Reason by indigest · · Score: 5, Informative

    There happens to be a 1972 album by Klaus Schulze that is also called Irrlicht which was originally released in 1972 and then re-released in 2006. Perhaps Viacom owns the rights to this album and their search bot mistakenly flagged the video as a copyrighted work.

    1. Re:Possible Reason by truedfx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since when are takedown notices supposed to be sent by search bots?

    2. Re:Possible Reason by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So what? The point here is that Viacom should be doing more than running around demanding the removal of anything that might belong to them, they need to be demanding the removal of things that definitely belong to them. The burden simply can't be on regular people to have to fight Viacom legally for the right to have their own stuff up there.

    3. Re:Possible Reason by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Per Wikipedia Irrlicht was released on Ohr Records (some about them here - "Later OHR Records turned into the Cosmic Music label". There is an article on Cosmic Music. I found http://www.cosmic-music.com/ but the babelfish translation of the site's history page (browsing there left as an exercise to the reader) says nothing about Ohr, so I am forced to conclude that it is the wrong label (and it looked indie anyway.) So anyway I lost the trail here. Can anyone pick it up?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Possible Reason by profplump · · Score: 5, Funny

      Since the legal staff hired a perl programmer, circa 1998.

    5. Re:Possible Reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that's great to be able to explain a mistake but that doesn't take away from the actual damages caused by mistakes such as these. The DMCA, which is really the issue at hand, enables "damaging mistakes" [ABUSE] to occur like this on a regular basis. And from what I can tell, it occurs on a very regular basis.

      How much evidence of abuse of this law has to be collected before an organization can be raised to lobby congress to have the law repealed? It's bad law. Let them repeal it. The pendulum favoring consumer rights is swinging in our direction now. It's best to take advantage of all the momentum we can possibly get. DRM will soon be completely out of favor and we will be assured of our rights to record our TV shows and football games in hi-def.

    6. Re:Possible Reason by Raul654 · · Score: 2, Informative

      IANAL, but I believe each DMCA complaint must include a statement along the lines of: "I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."

      Using a bot to send out such notices would be dangerous, as any false positives would open the sender up to a countersuit- ala, Michael Crook.

      --


      To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
      --E.C. Stanton
    7. Re:Possible Reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irrlicht also happens to be a german word that is familiar to anyone that's ever read german fairy tales.

    8. Re:Possible Reason by modir · · Score: 1

      And there is a band with this name as well. http://www.irrlicht.ch/ Maybe a video clip belongs to VIACOM. I thinks as well, that a search bot accidentally listed it... And the person at VIACOM sent the list 1:1 to youtube without looking at it.

    9. Re:Possible Reason by McNihil · · Score: 1

      Exactly what i was thinking.

    10. Re:Possible Reason by LordMyren · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia lists the following text in its "filing a dmca notice" section:
      "Reproduce the next statements:
      I have a good faith belief that use of the copyrighted materials described above on the infringing web pages is not authorized by my registered copyright and by the law. I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner of an exclusive right that is infringed.
      Your signature"

      Fuck yes. Sue the assclowns to kingdom come, and rob these robber barons to their grave. These guys are evil anti-humanitarian monsters.

    11. Re:Possible Reason by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to see what would happen if a "botnet" was to send takedown notices for every single video on YouTube, such that the notices appeared to come from either multiple individuals or multiple corporations. Of course that would probably be a criminal act, so I don't suggest anyone actually do it, but I'm guessing YouTube would either have to comply, or spend tons of resources determining legitimate, or likely-legitimate requests. Either way, I'm guessing they would soon become anti-DMCA.

    12. Re:Possible Reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IT WORKS!

      I opened your Wiki link, got cought by the song titles, followed up on the artists. Sounds like something I might like. Downloaded a a few "samples", if I still like it in a few days I will order "real" CDs to rip my own high quality files.

      1. Send DMCA notice
      2. Create publicity of why it happened
      3. Profit!

  11. Numbers of 1st presidents that care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.6 billions.

  12. A few quick ideas by hypnagogue · · Score: 1

    1) It's copyright infringement: sue.
    2) It's restraint of trade: sue.
    3) It's defamation of character: sue.
    4) It's slander of title: sue.

    Sue, and do not accept a settlement. Make sure to use loaded words like "piracy" and "theft" in every press release. Have fun!

    --
    Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
  13. Perjury! by Benanov · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if by firing off a C&D letter you're committing perjury if you're found to be wrong?

    1. Re:Perjury! by dougmc · · Score: 1

      I wonder if by firing off a C&D letter you're committing perjury if you're found to be wrong? That would certainly be a nice interpetation, but so far I know of nobody ever getting prosecuted for this sort of thing.
    2. Re:Perjury! by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      I wonder if by firing off a C&D letter you're committing perjury if you're found to be wrong?

      I think the rule of thumb is.... it's not perjury if you are wrong, only if you lie. Generally, the best defence is being an idiot.

      Now automated harassment on the other hand... that would IMHO be a reasonable claim.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    3. Re:Perjury! by pairo · · Score: 1
      Probably not, if they don't follow up on the suit. They can always claim it was a mistake. The DMCA states:

      Any person who knowingly materially misrepresents under this section-- (1) that material or activity is infringing [...] shall be liable for any damages [...]
      Key word here being "knowingly".
    4. Re:Perjury! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not perjury, but the lawyer is acting in an unprofessional manner and betraying his code of conduct.

      The lawyer has to put up his hand and swear that he has a good faith belief that the content is infringing.

      How many lawyers actually watched those 100,000 videos in the Grand Takedown?

      Did they inspect them all for fair use parody or fair use criticism? Or did they just do a check on the names? Did they see if the Redbones in the title was the Redbones they own the copyright on?

      Find the lawyers' names. Write a postcard to their state bar complaining about unprofessional conduct. Maybe once those fatcats get called out like Jack Thompson they'll find a productive line of work.

    5. Re:Perjury! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder if by firing off a C&D letter you're committing perjury if you're found to be wrong?
      Unfortunately, no. IANAL, but my understanding is that Perjury requires proof of intent. Which means that they need to know that they're incorrect ahead of time. Since Viacom believes that their list of takedowns is correct to the best of their knowledge, there would be no perjury committed.

      In any case, a DMCA notice would probably not be considered purjury. The sender took no oath to be truthful when they sent the notice. However, they could land in hot water for harrassment. It would be tricky to prosecute, but if you could show a significant degree of error in Viacom's takedown procedures, you could get them slammed with an injunction against sending DMCA notices. At least until a judge is fully convinced that Viacom has corrected the errors.
    6. Re:Perjury! by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > I wonder if by firing off a C&D letter you're committing perjury if you're found to be wrong?

      Not in general, but DMCA notices are specifically filed under penalty of perjury. It's part of the law.

      Perjury requires intent however -- it's not a crime to be mistaken. Viacom's automated notices are a grey area that is at worst negligent (and at best for them, well, the system's rigged enough that they're guilty of nada).

      Maybe we can get them declared vexatious litigants?

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    7. Re:Perjury! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Since Viacom believes that their list of takedowns is correct to the best of their knowledge, there would be no perjury committed.

      Great, so now that their bot has been proven to be unreliable, further use of it to identify material would be reckless. We'll give them this one, the next time an automated process incorrectly identifies material as copyrighted, they knowingly used a process known to falsely identify copyrighted material. If they aren't prosecuted the second time, then it's no different than if I issue a takedown of everything with "Alaska" in the title because I've taken some nice videos and pictures on my travels around the state. After all, it might be mine, and I can't be bothered to actually look at it, so take it all down and make them prove it isn't my footage. I would encourage everyone else to do the same, and then we'll have Google and YouTube fighting against the DMCA rules that are hurting them. The only way to fight the big guys is get other big guys on our side.

    8. Re:Perjury! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generally, the best defence is being an idiot.

      That's the one Bush will try during his war crimes trial. :)

    9. Re:Perjury! by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I still think they should face charges of perjury.

      This is the required statement in the DMCA: "I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."

      Perjury is a serious matter. This should be taken as a somlemn outh. Not a piece of whimsical text. If you are going to make a claim, under penalty of perjury, then you'd better make damn sure that the information is accurate. The statement should be taken to read that they are willing to accept being charged with perjury. Inaccuracy should be taken as prima facea evidence that they intended to deceive. Even if they have a defence, we should at least be told what that defence is! If I took the stand in a trial, and presented wild speculation about what happened as the truth, I'd expect the same thing to happen, and I expect much higher standards from legal professionals.

    10. Re:Perjury! by the_womble · · Score: 1
      According to this:


      http://www.cyberlawcentral.com/2005/06/musings-on- dmca-takedown-provisions.html


      You have to make a statement that you have a good faith belief that the material is infringing. A bot matching a word seems to be streching good faith a bit - can a bot have good faith?


      Obviously they used bots. How else could they have found such a vast volume of material? What they should have done is checked each item found before issuing a notice.

    11. Re:Perjury! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, as some other posters have pointed out, DMCA take down notices, under the DMCA, are considered perjury if they contain false allegations.

      DMCA take down notices are serious business.

      Unfortunately I am not aware of any convictions of perjury for false DMCA take down notices. If you can find a DA willing to prosecute, this could be the first.

      Shouldn't be hard for the victims here to find a lawyer willing to work for a percentage of the settlement/judgment for this. I'm not sure how monetary awards work for civil cases for damages resulting from perjury, but I imagine you could go for actual + punitive. The punitive is the part that is actually worth money.

      IANAL, but hopefully I'm starting law school in the fall. W00t.

    12. Re:Perjury! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Excellent point. I withdraw my point about the lack of an oath. I imagine it would still be incredibly hard to prosecute, however, for the reasons I stated.

    13. Re:Perjury! by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      In any case, a DMCA notice would probably not be considered purjury. The sender took no oath to be truthful when they sent the notice.

      Excepting, of course, that they did:

      6. Include the following statement: "A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."

      This isn't a random rule YouTube/Google made up, it's part of the DMCA.

      (Link to the relevant section of the DMCA will probably break soon, stupid Library of Congress. Start here, click "[H.R.2281.ENR]", then click "Sec. 512" in "TITLE II".)

    14. Re:Perjury! by TheUnknown · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, no. IANAL, but my understanding is that Perjury requires proof of intent. Which means that they need to know that they're incorrect ahead of time. Since Viacom believes that their list of takedowns is correct to the best of their knowledge, there would be no perjury committed.


      Of course they knew ahead of time they were incorrect. If you are sending 100000 takedown requests without looking at the material, how probable is it that all of them are actually infringing material? I would say you're sure to send multiple wrong notices. Since they (probably) didn't make a good faith attempt to send notices for infringing material, I would say they should be sued big time for perjury and abuse of the legal system. Jail time seems too good for such behaviour.
    15. Re:Perjury! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, given that the cease and desist requires a sworn statement to the accuracy, it would seem almost impossible to have an error that wasn't "knowing". So your choice is that either you knew it was wrong and sent it, or you committed perjury by sending it without checking the accuracy. I would guess there are lots of lawyers who would take this case on a contingency fee. Viacom should be in big trouble on this one, because either way they're guilty of something that gives damages to the legitimate video copyright holder.

    16. Re:Perjury! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read that very carefully - "... that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive
      right that is allegedly infringed". You're only commiting perjury if you are not authorized to act on behalf of the copyright
      holder whose rights are allegedly infringed, not if your allegation are false.

  14. Evidently not, Mr. AC by spun · · Score: 1, Funny

    Good evening Mr. Pot, my name is Kettle and I'll be your server. Try the irony, it's delicious.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  15. Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by amosh · · Score: 1

    Irrlich needs to send an email to YouTube, stating that this is a mistake. This should take them all of ten minutes to do. While in general we don't consider this kind of thing a good situation - just because there's a viable remedy doesn't mean that we're comfortable allowing people to go nuts - before the slashdot crowd goes TOO far off the deep end, please remember that Viacom isn't trying to usurp Irrlich's property and isn't trying to persecute them. Would this not happen in a country with rational copyright laws? Probably not. Is this the worst result of the DMCA so far? Dear god, get a grip, people. The DMCA is a huge problem. This isn't even a blip on the radar of problems the DMCA has caused, and it's got an easy fix.

    1. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by ewhac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't even a blip on the radar of problems the DMCA has caused, and it's got an easy fix.

      I dissent.

      This sort of problem is exactly one of the primary reasons the DMCA should never have happened in the first place, and should be repealed.

      Any individual claiming to be a copyright holder can have anything removed from a server based on nothing more than mere assertion. The Safe Harbor provision of the DMCA leaves ISPs and server operators little choice. Once the takedown notice is presented, the ISP either deletes the material or responds that it believes in good faith that the takedown notice is in error. If they do neither, they risk criminal liability.

      Note that nowhere is anyone required to verify the validity of the claimant's copyright, that the named material is at all related to the claimed copyright, or that the named material falls within the scope of Fair Use or not. It's either take it down or risk getting sued. The law requires that takedown notices be served in good faith, but there are no penalties prescribed for willful or negligent sending of erroneous notices (and lotsa luck finding a D.A. willing to prosecute).

      This kind of unaccountable censorship was intended by the DMCA's authors. You should not have to provide papers that you are "allowed" to speak, and that's a principal reason why the DMCA needs to go away yesterday.

      Schwab

    2. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by chopper749 · · Score: 1

      But according to YouTube's email to him: "Please note that under Section 512(f) of the Copyright Act, any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity was removed or disabled by mistake or misidentification may be subject to liability." So... it would follow that... any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity should be removed or disabled even if by mistake or misidentification may be subject to liability. Looks like YouTube says you should sue Viacom.

    3. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by Workaphobia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While you're right to put things in perspective as far as there being worse problems with the DMCA, this is indeed a blip on the radar, and the solution is not as simple as an email. According to the protocol stated in the email (and I presume by the law), the submitter is required to send a response with snail mail, not email, in order to argue a good faith belief that the content is non-infringing. So thanks to the DMCA, any copyright owner can send notice to any hosting provider that so-and-so is violating their intellectual property, and if the hosting provider doesn't want to become liable then it must react right away. Meanwhile, the submitter is penalized a few days while the mess gets cleared up. That can be just enough time for a major corporation to control a leak or a publicity disaster. It also provides a means to, in a limited way, DoS anyone you choose to.

      Are such abuses of the DMCA prosecutable? In theory, probably. But it's not as if the owner of the Irrlicht video can afford to fight a corporation over this kind of thing - not that I'd recommend it anyway for something so small. The point is that this clause of the DMCA shifts the balance too far towards the copyright owners rather than, well, everyone else.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    4. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by markana · · Score: 1

      >Irrlich needs to send an email to YouTube...

      Which will accomplish absolutely nothing. Probably won't even be read by a human. From the (boilerplate) notice:

      "If you elect to send us a counter notice, to be effective it must be a written communication provided to our designated agent that includes substantially the following (please consult your legal counsel or see 17 U.S.C. Section 512(g)(3) to confirm these requirements):
      A physical or electronic signature of the subscriber.
      Identification of the material that has been removed or to which access has been disabled and the location at which the material appeared before it was removed or access to it was disabled.
      A statement under penalty of perjury that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled.
      The subscriber's name, address, and telephone number, and a statement that the subscriber consents to the jurisdiction of Federal District Court for the judicial district in which the address is located, or if the subscriberis address is outside of the United States, for any judicial district in which the service provider may be found, and that the subscriber will accept service of process from the person who provided notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) or an agent of such person. "

      So - he has to get a lawyer ($$$) and send a written letter (probably registered - $$), then wait for a possible reply. Viacom, on the other hand, can simply send an automated e-mail and have anything removed with no practical recourse for the victims.

    5. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they have to write a letter and send my mail. Somewhat more effort than the false claims by Viacom. Now think on this, there are many other false take-downs, and all of them have to send by regular snail mail too. How much is this costing in time? How many of the 100,000 or so claims are false? Why should a single company have so much control over something with zero proof of copyright ownership?

    6. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by pairo · · Score: 1

      Actually, the way I see it, no. It says that if you do send a counter notice saying that the contect was removed/disabled by msitake or misidentification and are knowingly lying, you can get sued.

    7. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by DaveM753 · · Score: 1

      And yet, if it happened to you.....

    8. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The address to write to clearly includes an email address, and an electronic signature is fine. Email obviously constitutes "written communication." (By the way, an electronic signature may be nothing more than the person typing his name at the bottom of the email.)

      Were it me, I'd immediately fire off an email and send a snail-mail copy as well. Registered mail is only a few bucks.

      I don't think a lawyer would be needed, the information to be provided in the communication is pretty straightforward.

    9. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by rfunches · · Score: 1

      Were it me, I'd immediately fire off an email and send a snail-mail copy as well. Registered mail is only a few bucks.

      Registered mail is expensive: $7.90 plus postage (minimum total cost, $8.29) and the proposed rate increase would take it to nearly twelve bucks. Point is, the cost to Viacom to file these DMCA notices is very little, as they already have lawyers and a budget line set aside for this purpose; the innocent firms and people getting caught up in Viacom's net most likely don't have lawyers on staff for counter-claims nor the time and resources to fight erroneous DMCA notices. The DMCA is a losing battle for small content creators on the wrong side of a takedown notice.

    10. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by oohshiny · · Score: 1

      The Safe Harbor provision of the DMCA leaves ISPs and server operators little choice.

      Yes, but it's still better than the alternative, namely making ISPs and server operators legally responsible, which was the situation before the DMCA.

      Note that nowhere is anyone required to verify the validity of the claimant's copyright, [...] but there are no penalties prescribed for willful or negligent sending of erroneous notices

      Yes, those are problems, and it would be good to fix them. But the previous situation, in which ISPs and server operators would themselves be liable for copyright infringement by their users, was probably even worse.

      You should not have to provide papers that you are "allowed" to speak, and that's a principal reason why the DMCA needs to go away yesterday.

      In fact, under the DMCA, you don't have to prove that you're allowed to speak; you only have to prove it when challenged by a copyright holder. Well, guess what, you always had to do that.

      But if we return to the previous situation, then the ISPs and server operators would in fact have to ask you to prove that you're allowed to speak before you ever could speak, simply to cover their own asses. You might also (like in some other countries) have to provide clear, real-world identification and contact information for any web content you create. Talk about prior restraint.

    11. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by ewhac · · Score: 1

      The Safe Harbor provision of the DMCA leaves ISPs and server operators little choice.
      Yes, but it's still better than the alternative, namely making ISPs and server operators legally responsible, which was the situation before the DMCA.

      Actually, no it wasn't. Although there were a few guideposts, the question was uncharted legal territory.

      The question was: Can an ISP be held liable for the material posted to it by its users? Well before media cartels started trying to ruin the Internet, the question had originally been posed in the context of libel/slander. Even though the ISP (or, more likely in those days, BBS) is hosting the material, it was through no direct action on their part that the questionable material appeared there. Most often, the question was posed as: Is an ISP/BBS a newspaper or a phone company?

      If they were a newspaper, that meant they assumed editorial control -- and therefore responsibility -- for everything on the site. But this was manifestly untrue -- ISP management made no pretense of editorial control. Moreover, such control was impossible due to the sheer amount of new material being added.

      Okay, so if it's not a newspaper, then an ISP is a phone company and, under the rules of Common Carriage, can't be held responsible for anything moving through it. Indeed, Common Carriers are prohibited from discriminating between the material passing through it. Well, not so fast. Common Carrier status was bestowed on the telcos by Congress. ISPs fell outside the definition. So even though an ISP looks and smells and quacks just like a Common Carrier, they aren't official enshrined as such.

      Which brings us to the pre-DMCA days. Copyrighted material starts showing up on ISPs without the copyright holder's sanction (horrors! Doom! The fall of the Republic!). The copyright holder stamps their feet and says, "Make it go away!" The ISP says, "We didn't do it. One of our subscribers did." The copyright holder demands, "Which user?" The ISP responds, "Get a subpoena." So. On the one side, you have the copyright holders forming an argument around the notion of contributory infringement. On the other, the ISPs are correctly convinced they have done nothing wrong, and are relying on an interpretation of Common Carriage.

      No one wanted to be the first to take this case to court. If the ISPs were declared even indirectly reesponsible for the actions of their users, general access to the Internet would have ended right there. On the other hand, giving ISPs a wholesale pass on the actions of their users would have required copyright holders to file suit and initiate discovery against every offending copy out there, which was deemed too expensive. And any decision lying somewhere between these two "extremes" would have been fought over in the courts for decades, with the legal landscape remaining completely uncertain in the meantime.

      So the copyright holders side-stepped the whole issue by buying a few Senators and getting the DMCA passed. Poof! Now the copyright holder doesn't have to prove anything to anyone, and can get anything taken down. And as long as the ISPs go along with the scam, they're let off the hook. A win-win combination! In fact, the only loser in the whole deal is...

      You.

      So, no. Although there was a lot of sabre-rattling, ISPs were not in any immediate danger of being sued out of existence. Détente was working relatively well.

      Schwab

    12. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      Er, that's not what it says. Like the guy above me said, this statement identifies the person responding with a letter of good faith, that is, the submitter.

      The sentence reads:
      Any person who (knowingly materially misrepresents that (material or activity was removed or disabled by (mistake or misidentification))) may be subject to liability.

      As you put it:
      Any person who (knowingly materially misrepresents that (material or activity was removed or disabled) by (mistake or misidentification)) may be subject to liability.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    13. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by oohshiny · · Score: 1

      So, no. Although there was a lot of sabre-rattling, ISPs were not in any immediate danger of being sued out of existence. Détente was working relatively well.

      Yeah, if you were a really big ISP with really big pockets and were willing to pick a fight. And even then, the liability for something like YouTube would be staggering.

      Even though the current situation is far from ideal, I just don't believe that legal uncertainty was preferable.

    14. Re:Surprisingly, this is not the end of the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. So lets do something about it, and I don't mean talk on /. Let's use the DMCA in all the ways it isn't supposed to be used. Let's file so many stupid, absurd takedown notices that the ISP's and the media can't ignore it. If there was a concerted effort by the public to abuse the DMCA the way the megacorps are currently doing, how long do you think the law would last? If Geocities received a takedown notice for every user page on their system, do you really think they could comply in a timely manner? How about myspace? The best way to get a bad law repealed is to use it as much as possible.

  16. Sue Viacom ... by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 1

    Seriously. Sounds petty and too "american cliché" but - they are asserting, under penalty of perjury, that they own the copyright to the items they are flagging with a DMCA takedown notice.

    It's been said time and time and time again on slashdot whenever wrongfull DMCA takedown notices are sent.

    I'm sure you can find a lawyer that'll be willing to nail their collective ass to the wall and sue for defamation and whatever else you care to throw in for good measure and monetary value.

    Same goes for the people having their saturday night dinner video flagged. Just cause it SOUNDS a little bit perhaps maybe kinda like Saturday Night Live (the comedy show) or even a fucking album recording, if it's not related in any way ... well, if the glove don't fit you must kick the nuts of the misfit.

    --
    We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    1. Re:Sue Viacom ... by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      What we need is some sort of public defender that will file all sorts of nuisance suits against the industry for this sort of thing, the cost be damned. Someone who will just strive to be a thorn in their side, and if need be, a total asshat. Basically, a geek variant of Jack Thompson.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
  17. Inside Out US Label by fistfullast33l · · Score: 1

    Amazon has the re-release under Inside Out U.S., which lists him as their artist here.

  18. Must be nice having money pouring out your ass by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most of us do not have a rectal-capital fountain, and so we can not afford to sue if this happens to us. Here's an even better idea, get rid of the DMCA and go back to the tried and true "innocent until proven guilty." The DMCA has always been a tool to help the largest players in the entertainment industry control their market.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Must be nice having money pouring out your ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "innocent until proven guilty"

      You are only innocent until proven guilty in a criminal case. This is a civil case, and in such a situation, the plaintiff only has to convice a judge that you're probably guilty.

    2. Re:Must be nice having money pouring out your ass by spun · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes, I know that. But you are still presumed innocent until found probably guilty! Until the DMCA, no one could just point at something you created and say "get rid of it!" without a trial and hope that anyone would comply. Your semantic nit picking missed a very important point.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    3. Re:Must be nice having money pouring out your ass by westlake · · Score: 1
      Here's an even better idea, get rid of the DMCA and go back to the tried and true "innocent until proven guilty."

      "Innocent until proven Guilty" has meaning only in criminal law. In civil law there is simply a finding for the plaintiff or the defendant based on the weight of the evidence.

      It doesn't take much to shift the balance against you.

  19. Lawsuit! - Restraint of Trade by BionicPimp · · Score: 1

    I'm not a lawyer, but I think that's the right terminology for when a bigger company tries to muscle out a smaller company with no legal basis. At the very least, fire off a letter to their legal council. Go to a Legal Aid office, and I'm sure someone will help you out. At the very least, it will cost them thousands of dollars just to respond. Clearly you are in the right, and their actions are not even remotly defensable. Also, lawsuits generate alot of publicity...and the media loves a good david vs goliath story. That's the only way to make companies accountable now a days. Bad Press and Lawsuits. I wish it wasn't so...but it is.

    1. Re:Lawsuit! - Restraint of Trade by amosh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Look, I'm not trying to flame here... but if you're not a lawyer, and don't have any other knowledge... don't try to render a legal opinion.

      Irrlicht doesn't need to sue Viacom. Because Viacom isn't trying to 'muscle out a smaller company'. To anyone - ANYONE! - in this thread who thinks Viacom should be sued, answer me this - What damages is Irrlicht suing for? Did Viacom really try to destroy their business - to 'restrain trade'? Did they prevent Irrlicht from selling their product, from promoting their wares? THEY TOOK AN EFFING VIDEO OFF OF YOUTUBE. Not only that, but a video they had at least SOME basis to believe infringed on their copyright material. And the DMCA - despite the HUGE problems with that piece of legislation - does at least provide a remedy for this stuff. It takes about ten minutes to kick off an email in response.

      Show me damage. Show me Viacom acting in bad faith, rather than merely negligently or recklessly. THEN talk about lawsuits and restraint of trade. Until then... this is just not a big deal. The DMCA has a million huge problems - and this is somewhere around 950,000 on that list.

    2. Re:Lawsuit! - Restraint of Trade by pairo · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but a video they had at least SOME basis to believe infringed on their copyright material.
      What basis would that be? The fact that they mistook it for something they do have copyright over doesn't really mean they have any basis to believe anything.
    3. Re:Lawsuit! - Restraint of Trade by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      THEY TOOK AN EFFING VIDEO OFF OF YOUTUBE. Not only that, but a video they had at least SOME basis to believe infringed on their copyright material.

      Yeah, they took a video off youtube based on the name only. That's not reasonable by any stretch. What you're missing is that you can use this to lay the smackdown on anyone and they have a minimum 3 day window before they can get the content restored. This is a big hammer that can be used to hammer the fuck out of a small company and VIACOM knows it.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:Lawsuit! - Restraint of Trade by BionicPimp · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm not trying to flame here... but if you're not a lawyer, and don't have any other knowledge... don't try to render a legal opinion.

      I appreciate that, and I'll try to respond in the same spirit. One definition of restraint of trade is: Illegally interfering with free marketplace participation. Regulated by the Federal Trade Commission.It seems that using that definition, there are two important points. Was It Viacom illegally interfering with trade, and does Irllicht participate in the free marketplace . I don't think that there is a profit motive requirement for participating in the free marketplace, so I think Irllicht, as well as every other open source/FSF based company or organization qualifies as participating in the free marketplace. The 2nd part of the definition is the important part. Was Viacom acting illegally?

      Irrlicht doesn't need to sue Viacom. Because Viacom isn't trying to 'muscle out a smaller company'. To anyone - ANYONE! - in this thread who thinks Viacom should be sued, answer me this - What damages is Irrlicht suing for? Did Viacom really try to destroy their business - to 'restrain trade'? Did they prevent Irrlicht from selling their product, from promoting their wares?

      Is malice or intent required for Illegally Interfereing ? There are plenty of crimes where the absense of intent is not a defense. A drunk driver didn't intend to run over a kid...that doesn't mean he won't be tried for manslaughter.

      THEY TOOK AN EFFING VIDEO OFF OF YOUTUBE. Not only that, but a video they had at least SOME basis to believe infringed on their copyright material. And the DMCA - despite the HUGE problems with that piece of legislation - does at least provide a remedy for this stuff. It takes about ten minutes to kick off an email in response.

      This is also gray area, at least in my opinion. From the article, is says that the video was part of the help/tutorial system of the Irlicht website. Is preventing customers from accessing support or help, even for a free product, interferring with the free trade between the Irlicht group and the Irlicht customers? Some would say yes. What if one person tried to access the tutorial, got a broken link and decided not to download? (in their case this is roughly equivalent to a purchase)

      Show me damage. Show me Viacom acting in bad faith, rather than merely negligently or recklessly. THEN talk about lawsuits and restraint of trade. Until then... this is just not a big deal. The DMCA has a million huge problems - and this is somewhere around 950,000 on that list.

      I think this is where the reason to respond legally becomes apparent. Let's assume that Viacom simply was negligent, and they sent out one accidental takedown notice. The burden is pretty low. As you said, you simply send them a letter, or email somebody ( I don't know who exactly ) wait some period of time, and the video goes back up. If you allow negligence to be a defence of this type of behavior, then what's to stop viacom to send out thousands, or millions of these youtube takedown notices. Then the cost is greater. Now it's millions of people sending out emails, waiting for YouTube support to restore their videos. Now YouTube is processing Millions of emails. Maybe it's not 20 minutes before your video is back up. Maybe its two weeks now...or a month. If negligence is a defence, then if someone loses a business, or even a single sale, Viacom's defense could be "Sorry, My Bad", and the smaller business would just have to bend over and take it. For viacom, it costs nothing extra to spam the world with takedown notices, but the costs to the receivers would be onerous. That's called a fishing expedition , and isn't allowed in american law.

      As for the damages for Irrlicht...well, damages probably would be zero

    5. Re:Lawsuit! - Restraint of Trade by fiftyfly · · Score: 1

      Show me damage. Show me Viacom acting in bad faith, rather than merely negligently or recklessly. THEN talk about lawsuits and restraint of trade. Until then... this is just not a big deal. The DMCA has a million huge problems - and this is somewhere around 950,000 on that list.
      Show me how dinner parties and wedding video and tutorials damaged Viacom. Show me damage. Show me millions of users acting in bad faith, rather than merely negligently or recklessly. THEN talk about lawsuits and restraint of trade. Show me rigorous argument that my property is as important to the law as Viacom's.

      Until then this supposed piracy is just not a big deal. The market has a million huge problems - and this is somewhere around 950,000 on that list.
      --
      "Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"
  20. Censorship and legal spam by AmVidia+HQ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can attest to very similar situations as a service provider. We've dealt with member corporations of the RIAA sending us blanket takedown notices containing links to porn, and I don't think they do porn. Not yet anyways.

    So apparently Viacom, DreamWorks and Paramount are sending legal spam, without verifying what they are actually sending out, and Google is taking them without verification on their part either. I guess DMCA procedures aren't good enough - censor now, ask questions later.

    --
    VIVA1023.com | Political Fashion.
    1. Re:Censorship and legal spam by Bent+Mind · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We've dealt with member corporations of the RIAA sending us blanket takedown notices containing links to porn, and I don't think they do porn. Not yet anyways.

      This makes me wonder what would happen if someone posted illegal content to YouTube with a filename that would be found by Viacom's bot. Does Viacom's claim of ownership make them liable for the content?

      --
      Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
    2. Re:Censorship and legal spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misread - you were actually getting takedown notices from Viacum, Dreamwanks and Rearmount.

    3. Re:Censorship and legal spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the Wikipedia DMCA article, in the section on filing a DMCA notice:
      "Reproduce the next statements:
      I have a good faith belief that use of the copyrighted materials described above on the infringing web pages is not authorized by my registered copyright and by the law. I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner of an exclusive right that is infringed.
      Your signature"

      I highly suggest your customers find themselves lawyers.
      1. Post your normal crap.
      2. Get Takedown request.
      3. !!! finally an answer to #3 !!! --- SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THESE SKANKY RAT CORPORATE BASTARD WHORES
      4. Profit.

    4. Re:Censorship and legal spam by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      The boilerplate for a takedown notice seems to say they're swearing, under penalty of perjury, not just to the ownership of the copyright on the named work but that the posted content is the work over which they claim copyright.

      If they're cranking these notices out by the hundreds of thousands without actually checking, that's negligent. The falsehood makes it perjury. Perjury is criminal. Doing it as a business practice would amount to attempting to profit from repeated criminal acts as a policy.

      I wonder if this could be construed to constitute a "continuing criminal enterprise" and/or make them subject to RICO penalties?

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    5. Re:Censorship and legal spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can attest to very similar situations as a service provider. We've dealt with member corporations of the RIAA sending us blanket takedown notices containing links to porn, and I don't think they do porn. Not yet anyways.

      You should have taken it to the newspapers. I can just imagine the front page headline: Recording Indurstry admints to producing porn.

  21. Isn't a task for Free Software Foundation? by Jacek+Poplawski · · Score: 1

    Let's face it. This is a theft of intellectual property. It already happened.
    I know that irrlicht is not a GPL software, but is is a Free Software and FSF should act now, instead talking over and over about many different things.
    Why not use the law they have to fight the "evil company" and show the world that this battle can be won?

    1. Re:Isn't a task for Free Software Foundation? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Huh? What the fuck have the FSF got to do with this? You said yourself it's not GPL and definately not copyright FSF.

    2. Re:Isn't a task for Free Software Foundation? by raddan · · Score: 1

      It may not be the FSF's specialty, but it is certainly the EFF's. They've been working on the AT&T domestic spying case lately, but if you'd like them to spend some time in other areas, I'm sure a donation wouldn't hurt.

  22. Scanning "not creative" enough? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The uploaded version would clearly be a derivitave work, but I'm guessing that putting it into another tangible form would mean it's automatically copyrighted right then even if it wasn't originally.

    This is actually a fairly interesting question, and IMO an important one. I'm not sure I share your conclusion that the uploaded version is a new work, though. Although it certainly could be, if you changed it (say, retouched, or even just cropped it), a straight scan+upload probably wouldn't be original enough.

    It's an interesting question, because I recently scanned hundreds of old family photos and slides. Many of them, provided Congress stops extending copyright indefinitely, will be out of the original photographer's copyright relatively soon (as in, probably within my lifetime -- copyright, like geology, has its own relative time-scales). However, if the act of scanning the photo automatically makes a new work, then it's under copyright for another 120+ years, beginning 2006. Not really a concern to me, since I'd be the copyright holder, but of concern to a hypothetical other party who might want to use them.

    I suspect that simply scanning a photo, in its entirety, and uploading it, does not represent enough of a creative act to warrant a renewal of copyright as a derivative work. Essentially, all that is happening, is that the older work is being "format shifted." However, if you were to do any type of alteration to the original photo that wasn't totally automatic, even something like color correction, I could see an argument for protection on the grounds that it was a creative act.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A copy of a public domain work is public domain... for now

      But there is pressure to change it so that any refixing in a medium of a work grants a new copyright duration, even if (or if-and-only-if, I'm not certain on that detail) the original work had passed into the public domain. You can't make copies of the new copy; you need to go to the wellspring (a copy with expired copyright) and make your copy from that.

      Of course this means if a company keeps a stranglehold on their works using DRM so that no one can make a new copy without the original masters, they can just keep reissuing the work and retain perpetual copyright control. It would allow for the reduction of copyright duration and stop dragging all works along with Mickey Mouse, but at the expense of granting perpetual copyright to immortal corporations and estates, which should violate the Constitution in the US.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    2. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by Greg+Lindahl · · Score: 1

      Bridgeman v. Corel

    3. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by dougmc · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I share your conclusion that the uploaded version is a new work, though. Well, that's not really my conclusion.


      I don't think it would qualify as a *new* work (unless it was manually edited or retouched, as you suggested) but since the purpose of the Berne convention was to make sure everything was copywrited unless explicitly put into the public domain, I'm inclined to think that by being published (uploaded to youtube), especially by the owner of the item, would cause it (the uploaded version) to be copyrighted, even if the original wasn't before. (But to be sure, adding a `Copyright 1945 Grandma' message would be a good idea.)

      However, if the act of scanning the photo automatically makes a new work, then it's under copyright for another 120+ years, beginning 2006.
      Clearly it doesn't, not if you merely scan the photo. And even if you do retouch it, then you have a copyright on the retouched version, but the original photo will not have the same copyright. But if you convert an old video (on film!) to a computer file and then upload it, there's probably going to be some editing involved, so it seems pretty clear that the new version should be covered.

      This sounds like a job for an intellectual property lawyer! (And I'm not a lawyer at all.) But really, it's easier to just add the copyright notice somewhere rather than to consult a lawyer.

      You're right, it's an interesting question, and the answer isn't immediately obvious.

    4. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by Excelsior · · Score: 2, Informative
      However, if you were to do any type of alteration to the original photo that wasn't totally automatic, even something like color correction, I could see an argument for protection on the grounds that it was a creative act.

      Wrong, sorry. The rules for Copyright Registration for Derivative Works says specifically:

      Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work.
    5. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I think it's reasonable to assume that format-shifting sets a new copyright timestamp, but only for that specific representation. If I were to grab your photos and scan them in myself, I would have a set of photos (copyright: me, 2007).

      There may be difficulties in proving copyright infringement in a case like this, and that's largely ok with me. I mean, if, instead, I simply copied your digital scans rather than making my own, can you prove that I did so? Probably not, unless you watermarked them.

      Put another way, I think that, given two separate releases of a movie on DVD, one of them should expire before the other. The burden of proving copyright infringement SHOULD be on the copyright holder (yeah, yeah, preponderance of the evidence, blahblah).

    6. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by FLEB · · Score: 1

      Yep, that's the one they're chipping away at.

      The thing I find odd is that it (apparently, correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't cover simple cleanup/conversion re-releases of pub-dom work, and the cleaners can still assert copyright protection over the content. Can anyone cite me a "why"?

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
    7. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude... what if it's a public domain image?

    8. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by Greg+Lindahl · · Score: 1


      Why should this case cover something that wasn't an issue in this case?

      As for cleanups, it depends on whether or not they're "creative". If the cleaner-uppers are smart, they won't take you to court, so that they won't lose in a case very similar to Bridgeman v. Corel.

    9. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      The thing I find odd is that it (apparently, correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't cover simple cleanup/conversion re-releases of pub-dom work, and the cleaners can still assert copyright protection over the content. Can anyone cite me a "why"?

      Publishers "assert" all kinds of rights and restrictions in their copyright notices. Very few are ever tested in court.

      My opinion, you can't duplicate and reprint their pages, as their arrangement and layout has some originality and thus copyrightability. But abstracting the text and redoing it yourself should be fair use. But if there is really a lot of work to decipher, or translate, the orignal, they would have a greater claim than if they just ran some simple filters over a degraded original.

    10. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by cfulmer · · Score: 1

      It depends. If it's a purely automatic process, then format-shifting does not create a new copyright. Copyright requires some creative expression beyond the pre-existing matter. So, for example, copying a recording of a congressional hearing onto cassette tape doesn't add anything new and thus there is no copyright. But, if you take that tape and do a bunch of audio engineering work to make it sound better, the result would probably be protected. Note that doing this produces something of a thin copyright -- a transcription of the tape would be in the public domain, because the transcriber didn't copy any creative expression.

      This was essentially the argument with photographs -- originally, there was an argument that a photograph was just a copy of something in nature. And, since you can't copyright nature, you shouldn't be able to copyright the copy. But, courts have found that photographers put a lot of creativity into doing things such as framing the shot. I don't know for sure, but I suspect this means that the output of, say, a surveillance camera is not under copyright, unless the action in front of it were performed.

    11. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was some case in the UK, where the copyright of PD-Music was reassigned to those that reprinted the sheets. :(

      http://blogs.magnatune.com/buckman/2005/05/hyperio n_record.html

    12. Re:Scanning "not creative" enough? by AAWood · · Score: 1

      Reading through the GP and GPPs posts, I believe the GP was referring to a work where the original work is NOT copyrighted, and whether this change would or would not let the new work be covered by copyright.

      So in a work where the original was NOT copyrighted (I think I'm using the wrong word there, forgive me if this is the case), would a format shift constitute a copyrightable work? What about colour correction?

  23. 100,000 Viacom videos on YouTube? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/011925 3

    This really calls into question the validity of Viacom's claim that YouTube was hosting 100,000 infringing videos belonging to them. I wonder what the real number is. I wonder when the backlash hits YouTube over these "false positives" if they will start to require a little more diligence on the side of the claimants who request for videos to be removed. Shouldn't there penalties for making false claims of ownership over the copyrighted materials of others? YouTube's success was built on the shoulders of the little guy, not these giant media conglomerates. Will they do the right thing and help protect their legitimate users?

    --
    +0 Meh
  24. Give these bastards the same treatment by seriv · · Score: 1

    I would love to see some group scrutinize every single thing media companies release. I am sure that somebody in something like Viacom screws up, even with all of the lawyers they have. I would love to see Apple have to take some video off the iTunes store because one of these companies "pirated" (at least by these companies' definition) some content. Maybe such an effort exists, or such a thing has happened, but I would just love to see it. Someone has to screw these bastards the same way they screw everyone else.

    1. Re:Give these bastards the same treatment by Stone+Rhino · · Score: 1

      Like the guy who nailed Timbaland for ripping off a song from the demoscene a while back?

      Oh wait, nothing's going to happen to him at all.

      --


      Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
  25. Who cares? by ErikTheRed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most people will be upset by my post subject, but it's a question that needs to be asked. What are the actual damages here? Viacom's not claiming ownership - they fucked up. If their fuck up causes damages, there is legal recourse for this. If this is the case, then the victim should seek those legal recourses. Or STFU.

    Getting a few thousand Slashdotters all hot and bothered may feel good, but it's a purely masterbatory exercise. If the victims are that pissed off, they can sue. And don't give me that shit about "oh, how can poor tiny little us possibly prevail against the mighty Viacom?!??" IANAL, but it looks like it's a pretty open-and-shut case. The victi,s could do all of the legal work and filing themselves, and with a little extra work can probably find some lawyer to make it all nice and pretty pro bono. Unless the damages are significant, I'd be halfway surprised if Viacom even sends anyone to defend it. If the judge finds in the victim's favor they might try filing a complaint against the attorney that filed the DMCA takedown notice with the relevant bar association - Viacom's lawyers may have committed perjury. If the victims can find a prosecutor that thinks it's in their political interest to beat on Mighty Corporate Viacom vs. The Little Guy, then it's a nice high-publicity case for them.

    Other than that, the rest of us feel badly for the victims and wish them the best (fuck Viacom and all that), but let's be real - it's not like we're going to stop watching South Park or anything.

    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If their fuck up causes damages, there is legal recourse for this.

      Only if you have the money to pursue those legal options. Limiting free speech only for those who can afford lawyers to fight to the end against a major corporation isn't exactly free speech.

    2. Re:Who cares? by CompMD · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Damages (as would be awarded in a civil suit) are irrelevant here. Upon issuing a DMCA takedown notice, Viacom did assert copyright over the material in question. They asserted this copyright under penalty of perjury, which is a criminal offense. Therefore, Viacom has committed a criminal offense and is subject to federal prosecution.

    3. Re:Who cares? by Lithdren · · Score: 1

      If stuff like this doesn't bother you, thats fine. It really should, as things like this tend to escilate further and further from reality untill you get companies nailing people on really obscure stuff, and trampling over your rights like they were never there.

      The fact that they pulled something they dont own under some over-hyped copywright law, should piss you off. Damages or no, not everything is money. It doesn't cost me anything to speak my views on the street. If someone stops me from doing that, just because it didn't cost me anything, doesn't make doing so right.

    4. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people will be upset by my post subject, but it's a question that needs to be asked. What are the actual damages here? Viacom's not claiming ownership - they fucked up. If their fuck up causes damages, there is legal recourse for this. If this is the case, then the victim should seek those legal recourses. Or STFU.

      Seeking legal recourse implies you can afford it, we don't all have the luxury. The bullshit lays in the fact that viacom need not prove a damn thing other than accuse someone, the burden of proof of innocence is on the little guy. That's bullshit. Plus fuck Viacom, and fuck the DMCA.

    5. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pretty sure that sig should be:
      Light a man a fire and he will be warm for the night, light a man afire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

      Note the spaces between a and fire... regardless, I prefer this version due to the way it sounds aloud...

    6. Re:Who cares? by den479 · · Score: 1

      If the weatherman from your local TV station raped your sister and got away with it would you still watch their 6 o'clock news. Saying it's their problem and it doesn't concern you is kinda ostridge-like, the next time it could be your rights being trampled and I bet you'd be here on slashdot begging us to intervene on your behalf. I've seen a few episodes of South Park, not sure why you'd want to watch it anyway, but as long as people keep letting them get away with things like this they'll keep taking advantage. "Who cares?" if you don't care about this, why should we care when it happens to you?

    7. Re:Who cares? by patternjuggler · · Score: 1

      Most people will be upset by my post subject, but it's a question that needs to be asked. What are the actual damages here? Viacom's not claiming ownership - they fucked up. If their fuck up causes damages, there is legal recourse for this. If this is the case, then the victim should seek those legal recourses. Or STFU.

      It's possible that Viacom will see the slashdot story and will not send future takedowns for this video. It's possible that readers of this story have also gotten videos taken down unfairly but only now realize they aren't isolated cases. It's possible readers will contribute money to legal defense funds for this case or others like it. It's possible that in a free society that one method of redressing wrongs is to bring attention to those wrongs to a wider audience. It's possible that the public image of Viacom will be so damaged that they will be more careful about takedown notices in the future. It's possible that in a society with a free press the government will move to restrain the actions of corporations that are being abusive, but only when the outcry has reached a sufficient level. It's possible you are fucking moron and can only whine about other people who have more important things to say than you.

    8. Re:Who cares? by ErikTheRed · · Score: 1

      It's possible that Viacom will see the slashdot story and will not send future takedowns for this video.
      Yeah, and maybe Tara Conner will come over to my house and be my sex slave.

      It's possible that readers of this story have also gotten videos taken down unfairly but only now realize they aren't isolated cases.
      And? If there's only one person that's affected and they really care, they should still do something about it. Or maybe you think they should get together and form a class action that will net them each a $12 coupon off any Viacom DVD (and $2.5M for their lawyers).

      It's possible readers will contribute money to legal defense funds for this case or others like it.
      Legal defense against what? If there's legal action, they'd be the plaintiffs. If they want people to contribute to their legal offense fund... oops, they don't have one. Just a bunch of whining.

      It's possible that in a free society that one method of redressing wrongs is to bring attention to those wrongs to a wider audience.
      That would look something like this.

      It's possible that the public image of Viacom will be so damaged that they will be more careful about takedown notices in the future.
      And maybe Katie Rees will come over and help Tara Conner take care of my ballsack.

      It's possible that in a society with a free press the government will move to restrain the actions of corporations that are being abusive, but only when the outcry has reached a sufficient level.
      It's possible that "When buying and selling are controlled by legislatures, the first thing to be bought and sold are legislators" -- P.J. O'Rourke.

      when buying and selling are controlled by legislatures, the first thing to be bought and sold are legislators.
      It's possible that I'm the one pointing the useless whining without action to back it up, and it annoys useless douchebags like you that masturbate to drama.
      --

      Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    9. Re:Who cares? by ErikTheRed · · Score: 1

      Only if you have the money to pursue those legal options. Limiting free speech only for those who can afford lawyers to fight to the end against a major corporation isn't exactly free speech.
      Ummm... let's see... in my area, it costs about $105 and a day or so of your time (assuming you've never done it before and have to read up on a lot of things) for an individual to file a small claim of up to $7,500, and have the corporation served. And in small claims court, in most cases they can't send a lawyer - they have to send an actual representitive of the corporation that's authorized to argue on that corporation's behalf. This is specifically so that the "little guy" has an even chance. If they don't show up, you win by default.

      I've done it once, and my case was settled (with exactly what I wanted) before we actually went to court - the winners and losers of court cases are public record, and the company didn't want a judgement against them. I actually sat in on a small claims session beforehand just to see what it was like. The judge (at least the one I saw) was a no-nonsense guy who read the briefs filed by both parties, listened to the arguments, took no bullshit from either side, and made fair decisions. It's not a difficult process if you do a little research and are well-prepared.

      So please knock it off with the hippie-dippy bullshit of "I can't take on teh corporations they're just too big" - in the US, at least, we have special courts just for that. If your case is bigger than small claims allows, then you do need a lawyer and a good one. If your case is good, then you should be able to find a good lawyer who will take it on a contingency basis (meaning they cover all the expenses, but take 30 - 40% if you win).
      --

      Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    10. Re:Who cares? by ErikTheRed · · Score: 1

      If stuff like this doesn't bother you, thats fine. It really should, as things like this tend to escilate further and further from reality untill you get companies nailing people on really obscure stuff, and trampling over your rights like they were never there.

      The fact that they pulled something they dont own under some over-hyped copywright law, should piss you off. Damages or no, not everything is money. It doesn't cost me anything to speak my views on the street. If someone stops me from doing that, just because it didn't cost me anything, doesn't make doing so right.
      Umm... where did I say it didn't bother me? It bothers me somewhat, but if the victims aren't going to do anything material about it (bitching on Slashdot doesn't count), then why should I?

      And no, money's not everything, but the rules of the game are that's how we settle things with large douchebag corporations that don't care about anything else. It doesn't cost you anything to speak your views on the street - but it's a purely masterbatory experience that only serves to annoy the neighbors.
      --

      Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    11. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See this post.

    12. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, this case wouldn't be handled by small claims court. So you're a moron.

      Second, let's say it were to be handled by small claims court and it did only cost $105 and take a day, then you're saying it's cool if a corporation goes around blindly causing other people's works to get taken down until those people can front $105 and waste a day of their time going to court. It's more important for a corporation to maximize profits (by not spending the money to bother checking whether the content they're forcing people to remove is actually theirs) than it is for individuals to have free speech. So you're a moron. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I should be unfortunate enough to run across your posts in the future.

    13. Re:Who cares? by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      Assuming, of course, that the local D.A. feels like prosecuting the case.

      I've heard people talk about making it so that victims can sue the D.A. for refusing to prosecute, but that seems a bit too extreme.

      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
    14. Re:Who cares? by Alsee · · Score: 1

      If the victims are that pissed off, they can sue.

      No they can't. There is no legal recourse.

      The DMCA was literally written by lawyers working for the publishing industry. DMCA takedown notices must be filed "under penalty of perjury", but that perjury clause only applies to the statement that they are (or represent) the copyright holder on the allegedly infringed work... it does *not* apply to the the thing that they are saying must be taken down. There is no legal recourse. All you can do is file the counter notice, officially submit to federal court jurisdiction, wait the ten day minimum set by the DMCA, and then hope that the internet company puts your stuff back up. And hope that more invalid takedown notices don't come in, potentially keeping you off of the internet indefinitely.

      The current situation... non-infringing things being knocked off of the internet by invalid takedown orders with no no consequences for the people filing the invalid takedowns... it is not a bug in the law... it is a deliberate "design feature" of the DMCA. When you literally have laws being written by lawyers employed by industry lobbyists you get horribly unbalanced law and all sorts of "legal gotchyas" hidden in the text.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    15. Re:Who cares? by patternjuggler · · Score: 1

      I gather you have a thing for beauty pageant girls (and annoying people who are masturbating? That's a new one to me), but I still don't see what's wrong with bringing news of injustice to a public forum. If you yourself don't care, the internet makes it pretty easy to not click on things you aren't interested in- but why is it necessary to tell everyone who is interested to shut up and that they would be better off yanking it to Miss America or whatever that other thing you're into is?

  26. Less mad at Viacom than I am at Google by mdm-adph · · Score: 1

    Seriously -- I'm less mad at Viacom's obvious "legal takedown notifier" bot than I am at Google's obvious "legal takedown notifier obeyer" bot. Makes you think about just how much DMCA garbage that Google is bombarded with these days. Maybe this is one step closer to having all of our court cases decided upon by artificial intelligence!

    --
    It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    1. Re:Less mad at Viacom than I am at Google by geekoid · · Score: 1

      If you read the DMCA portion of the copyright law, you will see exactly why Google does that.

      The DMCA laws basically say providers will not be held liable for content users load up, but will take things down when they get a notice of violation.

      That is how the DMCA created it's own carrot to take away from the horse.

      I also like the part about boat hulls.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  27. I know just the man for the job... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Well, I'm hoping that some of this "scatter shot" technique being used by the media companies in their so called war on piracy starts backfiring.

    Where's Dick Cheney when you need him?

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:I know just the man for the job... by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

      In a secure, undisclosed location, of course.

  28. Class Action Status by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    I bet you could find enough copyright holders who've had their IP removed from youtube due to Viacomm's shotgun approach to takedown notices that you could get a class action lawsuit going. It doesn't matter that the members of the class don't get that much as long as it sets Viacomm back by, oh, lets say... 3 BILLION DOLLARS! That should be enough to insure that they'll be more careful next time they try any shenanigans.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  29. Slander of Title - depending by tinkerghost · · Score: 4, Informative

    Per Groklaw - Slander of Title would apply to this, if you can show some sort of malice. If there were a pattern of the types of videos they 'erroneously' had taken down, it would go a long way towards establishing malice. However, if there is just a bunch of random crap thrown into the legitimate claims, then it's unlikely that you would be able to persue a Slander of Title claim very far.

    They have obviously failed to check on the actual status of the Copyrights for the video, which would set them up for a negligence suit. Since it's a tutorial on using a companies software, you might sneak it in under 'Tortuous Interferance' - ie. their actions are causing harm to the company's business and are not related to competition by VIACOM itself. [irony]MS couldn't claim interfierance by Apple just because Apple sells an OS. If Apple were to blackmail/bribe software houses into not developing for MS, then there would be a legitimate suit.[/irony]

    Of course if you want to be boring, you could go with

    • libel - they have accused you in a writen document of engaging in copyright infringement without proof.
    • damages - lost time/effort/expense to correct their error.
    • emotional distress - hey, it's an old standby - works better for people than companies.

    Depending on how many of the videos they asked to have taken down were not infringing on their copyrights, then this might be a prime target for a CAS against Viacom. That would rattle their chain - and might give the other big distributors a pause before they sent out mass takedown notices as well.

    1. Re:Slander of Title - depending by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I think you mean tortious interference. Tortious: of or relating to private injury for which the law prescribes damages. Tortuous: winding (of a road), complex (of a proceeding), etc.

      You don't have enough to get tortious interference, I don't think. That would require intent of the third party (Viacom) to induce someone to not buy the product in question. That said, the rules vary in different jurisdictions, so it's hard to say for certain. Also, if you could prove intent, Viacom could potentially argue that the DMCA gives them privilege to induce such a breach, though that would be a bit of a stretch. Either way, I'd be surprised if you could win such a case.

      This does scream criminal negligence, though. For that, all you have to show is that a reasonable person would or should have known about the possibility for causing commercial harm and thus should have taken actions to prevent it from occurring. It seems pretty much open and shut in this case....

      Caveat emptor: IANALBIPOOSD.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:Slander of Title - depending by mikelieman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A pattern? Say, 10,000 Videos they don't have rights to? That's a pattern.

      --
      Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
    3. Re:Slander of Title - depending by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you a lawyer?

    4. Re:Slander of Title - depending by Khyber · · Score: 1

      It's funny it's called SLANDER when since it was e-mailed to Youtube/Google it should be LIBEL of title

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re:Slander of Title - depending by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

      A pattern? Say, 10,000 Videos they don't have rights to? That's a pattern.

      The only pattern 10,00 incorrectly identified videos represents is one of gross negligence. A pattern would be 40% of the videos they do not have rights to being commentaries claiming that one of their shows is a steaming pile of bullshit. That shows a pattern of deliberately targetting videos which negatively comment on their products.

      At this stage, I know of only 2 videos - this one & one from Harvard. That's a long way from 10,000.

  30. Faith and Understanding..... by tinkerghost · · Score: 1
    they are filed with the "on faith and understanding" clause - which mostly means they believe they hold the rights to the material they are requesting to be taken down. In order to get perjury, you would need to be able to prove that they knew they didn't own the rights to the material when they sent in the request. If you can prove that, you can probably prove malice - which will get you into Slander of Title where you can actually make some of the big money because it would involve corperate fraud.

    Negligence and damages are more likely avenues to succeed.

  31. Simple Fix by dekkerdreyer · · Score: 1

    The fix is simple. Create a perl bot to parse through youtube and generate a letter claiming that every video on youtube is a violation of your copyright. Poof, youtube ceases to exist in a cloud of DMCA lawsuits.

    --
    Dekker Dreyer
  32. That's not the way it works. by raehl · · Score: 4, Informative

    YouTube and Google are not supposed to demand proof. The DMCA is very specific: The party who believes their copyright has been infringed must send a signed statement stating that the copyright is theirs, under penalty of perjury. Once that has happened, the ISP must take down the content if they don't want to risk being held liable for having the content.

    So if Viacom sent the DMCA request, then the beef of the actual copyright owner is with Viacom, not with the ISP.

    1. Re:That's not the way it works. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      YouTube and Google are not supposed to demand proof.

      Come now. Google / YouTurd has these dogs called "lawyers". If they had given a shit and wanted to question the Take-Down, they could have. What this does is set a precident for Viacom to walk all over Google/YouTube and take steaming dumps on them. If YouTube / Google was smart, and not "evil", they would not have folded so easy.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:That's not the way it works. by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      Come now. Google / YouTurd has these dogs called "lawyers". If they had given a shit and wanted to question the Take-Down, they could have. What this does is set a precident for Viacom to walk all over Google/YouTube and take steaming dumps on them. If YouTube / Google was smart, and not "evil", they would not have folded so easy.

      If you do that you're effectively surrendering your Safe Harbor protections so . . . no.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    3. Re:That's not the way it works. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a set procedure in the DMCA that has to be followed if Google want to be shielded from liability themselves. Any lawyer would recommend that Google follow this procedure, because although there will be innocent videos taken down, if they don't then if a video is infringing someones copyright then Google is liable for the infringement themselves.

      Imagine you were the manager of a bail hostel, and there was a law saying that so long as you let the police in without a warrant, you weren't liable, but if you refused you were personally liable for any crime committed within the premesis. You may not like the law, it may be unconstitutional, but you would probably follow it, especially if there was a long track record of drug abuse in the hostel

    4. Re:That's not the way it works. by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 1

      So why don't we fight back and demand Viacom's ISP suspend all MTV websites until they provide proof of ownership?

    5. Re:That's not the way it works. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      You'll be an internet hero, but I'd hate to see you ruin your life with a perjury conviction.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:That's not the way it works. by Kaemaril · · Score: 1

      You could do what Viacom have clearly done : don't perform any due diligence.

      Step 1 : Find a video on their site. Say, wxv6ghuuo.wmv.
      Step 2 : Put a video of you going fishing on your website. Give it a random name, like, for example, Oh, I don't know ... wxv6ghuuo.wmv
      Step 3 : Wait a few weeks.
      Step 4 : To your horror, you're browsing the HTML of viacom's site (purely out of interest, you understand) when you stumble across a link to a file called wxv6ghuuo.wmv
      Step 5 : WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE FILE (that's important!) send in a DMCA Take-down stating that you've got a "good faith" belief that viacom are infringing your copyright, listing the file.

      There. Isn't that basically what Viacom must have done? No perjury involved: you've honestly stated you've got a "good faith" belief. After all, they COULD have swiped your file. Without looking you can't really be certain, but it's got the same file name ... !

      IANAL, so don't try this at home :)

    7. Re:That's not the way it works. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately for your scheme, I think intent matters! Cover your tracks! :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re:That's not the way it works. by MacDork · · Score: 1

      YouTube and Google are not supposed to demand proof. The DMCA is very specific: The party who believes their copyright has been infringed must send a signed statement stating that the copyright is theirs, under penalty of perjury. Once that has happened, the ISP must take down the content if they don't want to risk being held liable for having the content.

      When the claim is obviously BS, YouTube and Google could tell Viacom to stuff it and they have nothing to worry about.

      Failing to act in response to a DMCA takedown letter is not against the law. "They can always choose not to take advantage of the safe harbor," Seltzer said. However, only by complying with the letter and taking pages out of their index can Google escape a possible copyright infringement lawsuit.
      Also of interest, DMCA Counter Notifications:

      If it is determined that the copyright holder misrepresented its claim regarding the infringing material, the copyright holder then becomes liable to the OSP for any damages that resulted from the improper removal of the material.
    9. Re:That's not the way it works. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The party who believes their copyright has been infringed must send a signed statement stating that the copyright is theirs, under penalty of perjury

      Incorrect. The inital takedown notice is not under penalty of perjury. The perjury part comes later, when you send the written counter-notice to the ISP claiming that your work does not infringe the accuser's copyright. The inital accusation is just that, an accusation, not a legal declaration.

      Yes, the system seems to have it backwards.

      Once that has happened, the ISP must take down the content if they don't want to risk being held liable for having the content

      That is one option. They also have the option of declaring that they think the work is non-infringing. I'll let you guess how often that happens.

      So if Viacom sent the DMCA request, then the beef of the actual copyright owner is with Viacom, not with the ISP.

      Well, they have a beef with Viacom for sending a takedown notice for content they don't hold the copyright for. They have a beef with the ISP for not even making a cursory check that Viacom actually hold the copyrights they claim to. Mostly though, they have a beef with the US government for passing such a stupid, easily abused, one-sided law.

  33. DMCA by Tom · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the 21st century, where thanks to the DMCA anything you made can be removed by a simple email from the right lawyer or big-sounding corporation, and you then have to prove that yours actually is yours, before its put online again... maybe.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:DMCA by pairo · · Score: 1

      That's not true. You just have to say that. They, , have to sue.

  34. I've already seen this by Stonent1 · · Score: 1

    There was a video clip I found a few days ago that was made by a bunch of kids and when I went back to show it to someone else there was a Viacom warning.

  35. Shut up, go away, and never come back by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    "Put up or shut up." doesn't stop Viacom from doing it next week to 100 different people.
    A class actions of "Show a Jury why you weren't negligent in filing these 100 requests.", tells Viacom and all the others to use a scalpel not a shotgun to do this or we will hurt you.

  36. um no.... by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    1) It's copyright infringement: sue.
    No, it's not infringement. All of the others can be used, but that one can't. If they broadcast it, even claiming it as an example of their error, then it would be.
    1. Re:um no.... by hypnagogue · · Score: 1
      Wrong: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc

      Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

      --
      Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
    2. Re:um no.... by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

      Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

      An admitedly quick search doesn't pull up any cases where someone was sued for infringement based on a false claim of title. Also given that these notices were filed under the DMCA & the DMCA itself has penalties for false filings(1), trying to push this through would probably be doomed to failure at the dismissal request.
      Mistakenly claiming ownership will result in damages. Sorry, we meant video 12659 not 12650.
      Falsely claiming ownership to create a competitive advantage will result in a tort suit for interfierance and purjury.
      Falsely claiming ownership with malicious intent gives you slander of title and purjury.
      Title 17 Chapter 5 (501c)

      (c) Fraudulent Copyright Notice. - Any person who, with fraudulent intent, places on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false, shall be fined not more than $2,500.

      Is the only other section I find in the actual text of title 17 reguarding falsely claiming copyright ownership. The section you quote is from a copyright primer - not the code itself. Even 501c may not apply because they are not placing notices on the works, just claiming to own them - a fine distinction that might be enought to avoid the fine.

      Title 17 Chapter 1 (106a) covers rights of atribution for visual works, but again doesn't invoke infrignement for falsely claiming that atribution.

      (1)DMCA 512(c)(3)(A)(vi) makes knowingly making a false claim an act of Purjury. Proving knowingly and not error is hard enough to prevent these from showing up in court unless the person requesting the takedown gets picked to be made an example of.

  37. EFF not FSF (NT) by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    I said no text

  38. fucking jews! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    time to "DMCA" that motherfscking Sumner Redstone (Murray Rothstein). hopefully some erases his 85 year old ass..

  39. It's not breaking eggs by DrYak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's smashing in Viacom's itself face :
    It's ridiculous.

    Anyone remember the take-down notice for a 144k file called doom3.zip dating back from 1988 ?

    The DMCA Auto-sue-bot strikes again !

    A question :
    A complain filed an a un-attended manner, without any human intervention, could it be considered valid in a court ?
    As far as I know, only humans (themselves), corporations (with an employed lawyer) and the government (idem) may sue. No provision is made for robots or computers. And in this case, there's is a very good proof that Viacom's suits, no human were ever involved.

    Where I live, even in case of animal abuses, a vet has to sue in behalf of the abused animal. Living animals. Now how could a /script/ be allowed to sue someone ?

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:It's not breaking eggs by bky1701 · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I think a script can act on behalf of it's owner, be it a company or person.

      But there is still a massive difference between a *NOTICE* and suing. I don't think it's illegal to send notices even without any justification (other than perhaps slander/harassment).

    2. Re:It's not breaking eggs by alphamugwump · · Score: 1

      I AM a script, you insensitive clod!

  40. Re:Who cares? Depends by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    It really depends on what level of accuracy was involved. If there were 40 videos out of 100,000 that were incorrectly identified, and the correct videos are a transposed digit away/a number off/etc then it's forgiveable. If 30% of the videos are incorrectly identified then it's an example of gross negligence & needs to be smacked down hard enough that they feel the sting every time they try this.
    As for damages, that is going to depend on the exact video involved. If this were video 5 of a 6 part video collection that I was basing sales on, it might hurt me badly - giving my company an unprofessional appearance at the least.

  41. But what was infringed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've seen many of these takedown notices forwarded by ISPs and companies like YouTube, and this one like many of them, lack information about what is alleged to have been infringed.

    Viacom's notice to YouTube, by law, was required to identify not only the allegedly infringing work, but also the work that it believes is being infringed. I'm very curious to know just what Viacom told YouTube, and whether it was plausible or (more likely to my mind) obviously wrong.

  42. The problem by Rac3r5 · · Score: 1

    I think the bigger problem here is that the legal system has become so complicated and expensive that the average Joe cannot fight back at this ridiculous bullying. What we need is a complete overhaul of the justice system and all those idiotic laws and new processes need to be established.

    1. Re:The problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we need is a complete overhaul of the justice system and all those idiotic laws and new processes need to be established.

        The ruling classes would LOVE that. The calcified remnants of old laws designed to help the aristocracy of bygone days put the screws to their subjects make it ungainly for today's elite to really squeeze the public efficiently now. A complete overhaul with new processes would let them tailor the rules to their maximal benefit.
        But then I'm an anarchist. While I agree with you on the desirability of tossing the rulebook in the fire, I don't think it would be an improvement to just replace it with another rulebook written under the same controlling forces.

    2. Re:The problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that was tried in 1776 and they responded by sending men with guns.

  43. how ironic... by adamchou · · Score: 1

    that i work for viacom and i use irrlicht.

  44. Numbered days... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    The problem with what you say is that it effectivly destroys the "value" of YouTube. If I where a stockholder, I'd run. Basically this makes YouTube just another corporate shill, and this means its days are numbered a lot shorter than last week.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Numbered days... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      YouTube is owned by Google, so you'd have to be running from Google stock.

      In any case, Google would be crazy to give up their safe harbor protection. The DMCA is written in such a way to keep the internet providers as neutral 3rd parties, and out of any copyright dispute, and that is all that is happening here. You don't expect Google to manually review every video affected by a take-down notice, do you? And even if they did, how are they supposed to know Viacom's intellectual property better than Viacom?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  45. What did they search for? by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

    "Our copyrighted video contains the bit string 0001011010100110b, so all videos containing that same bit string have to be taken down."

    Or something to that extent.

    I hereby claim copyright for the bit strings "1b" and "0b". They appeared in my diploma thesis.

  46. Some of us care about freedom of speech by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

    To anyone - ANYONE! - in this thread who thinks Viacom should be sued, answer me this - What damages is Irrlicht suing for?

    So non-commercial speech doesn't get protection?

    Free speech is free speech, it doesn't matter if it's commercial, political, or as in this case, educational. The silencing of any legal free speech because of a simple, obviously erroneous letter should be offensive to anyone who treasures the values the US is founded on.

    It takes about ten minutes to kick off an email in response.

    And then you wait 10 days before it goes back online, per DMCA requirements. Viacom gets to use a sloppy program and silence legal speech almost immediately with no opportunity for the owner to object. To get it put back, the owner has to wait 10 days to give Viacom a chance to object. Hardly fair. (And, of course, other Google properties have a "physical mail only" policy, which further delays one's ability to have legal speech restored.)

    The DMCA safe harbor provisions are a good idea, but the current implementation is flawed. There is no practical penalty for maliciously misusing the DMCA to temporarily silence legal speech during key windows of time, and there is no practical penalty for being really sloppy and blocking legal speech. Free speech is so critical that people who abuse the DMCA intentionally, or by being deeply negligant deserve punishment. It turns my stomach to know that some people care so little for this vital freedom.

    Restraint of trade is probably the wrong charge, but Viacom's actions are so reprehensible that they deserve punishment. The only realistic way to punish Viacom is through a lawsuit.

  47. The sword cuts two ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure whether the DMCA has been used like this, but I see no reason why Viacom couldn't receive take-down notices for items which might infringe the copyright of others. For instance any mention of Irrlicht could indicate a violation. A list of unique words and phrases from their site/s, generated by a computer could be used as the basis for notices. Of course the issuer of the notice would need an item which had enough naming similarity. Do Viacom host their own sites? You would need to organise this so that the people issuing the notice would not be perjuring themselves. Can you think of a mechanism that might work?

    I think I'll post this anonymously.

    Q.

  48. Whine slashdotters whine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The obvious reply to this which the Slashbots here have missed is this:

    Lay down with dogs and you'll wake up with fleas.

    It's utterly insane that Viacom should have to send 100,000 takedown complains to a website whos entirely business model is largely based on copyright violations. So forgive them for not spending a ton of money to make sure they don't inconvenience some of the users of the service that is ripping them off.

    At the end of the day the reality is this: If you don't want your content taken down as collateral damage in a mass takedown, don't submit it to YouTube.

  49. Copyright Law != Theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, aside from filing a lawsuit to recover the DMCA's "oops" damages, can they also file charges of theft for Viacom attempting to steal the property part of their intellectual property?
    It's libal or slander to knowingly make false statements with the intent to harm. To try and claim a copyright over the material would be copyright law, and charges of "false charges" perhaps. There is no "theft" involved, and "intellectual property" doesn't exsist. "Theft" or "stealing" requires the taking of a physical object so that the original owner is without it. This clearly isn't the case, as the author of the work still has the original video. Any one using the term "intellectual property" is either confused about copyright and patent law, or trying to confuse the issues of copyright and patent law. Copyright is simply a limited, artifical, govenment granted monopoly on creative works. One could argue that Viacom's take down notice may also be a case of plagerism, but that would be a streach.
    1. Re:Copyright Law != Theft by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      as the author of the work still has the original video.

      Actually, looking at the linked site, it appears the only copy of the video they had was the one that was removed. Shame on them for assuming that some company would not come along, claim their video belonged to the company, and have it removed.

      Copyright is simply a limited, artifical, govenment granted monopoly on creative works.

      What I meant by theft and the "property part of their intellectual property" was the idea that Viacom could be considered to have stolen the monopoly itself. They are unable to determine why Viacom thinks it belongs to Viacom (this wasn't provided in the takedown notice), and because they cannot determine that, they cannot effectively counter Viacom's claim of ownership, and therefore cannot assert their monopoly right.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  50. Why not send them a Cease and Desist Letter by randyflood · · Score: 4, Interesting

    IANAL

    But this is what I would do:

    Repost the video and send Viacom a Cease and Desist letter asking that they stop telling people that your copyrighted works are there's. Then, when they do it again, they cannot claim ignorance or that it was an oversight or whatever. Put up the video on a web site with an advertisement that pays you per page view, and claim that by lying to Google, they are causing you a loss of income.

    So, essentially, they are lying about you, in writing, and it is negatively affecting you. Then you would probably have a better legal case. In addition, thanks to the RIAA and others like them, there is a great deal of negative coverage for people who engage in copyright infringement. So, now that it has been slashdotted, it could also damage your reputation...

    --
    Randy.Flood@RHCE2B.COM
  51. viacom took too much off by British · · Score: 1

    They took off a music video I uploaded, that wasn't owned by Viacom. I assume they took it off because it had the "VH1 Classic all request" logo at the bottom right. I check my playlist and about half the videos are gone, none of them to do with Viacom.

    That ticks me off.

    1. Re:viacom took too much off by NiceGeek · · Score: 1

      Viacom owns VH1/MTV

    2. Re:viacom took too much off by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      Viacom owns the VH1 Classic network. They may not hold the copyright to the music video, but they certainly have a claim to video reproductions of their broadcast.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  52. So if a company perjurs itself by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can you put the company in prison? Or just the guy who signed the statement?

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  53. Apparently it's happening to a ton of people... by Optic7 · · Score: 1
    This was linked from the page you linked: link

    It's a site that's compiling all stories of people who are being unjustly hit by the Viacom Youtube blitzkrieg. Makes me wonder, could this DMCA provision be used as a kind of denial of service attack? What if a site or ISP started receiving a ton of random DMCA takedown notices? What if they were from fake or spoofed names and addresses so as not to be traced? This stuff is just insane.

  54. Dude, you just hit the lottery by bokmann · · Score: 1

    Viacom, a company with VERY deep pockets, has just violated your copyright. You can bet that if you took a video of theirs and claimed it as your own, some nasty lawyers would come knocking. They just did the same to you. Go find yourself a lawyer who is used to filing nuisance cases, and make some money off their mistake!

    The only way this mistake will be unlikely to happen in the future is if the mistake costs them a lot *now*.

    db-

  55. Irrlicht == German for 'Sprite' by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    It's the German term for 'Sprite'.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Irrlicht == German for 'Sprite' by quigonn · · Score: 1

      Uhm, no. "Irrlicht" means "Will-o'-the-wisp" in English.

      --
      A monkey is doing the real work for me.
  56. viacom - big dumb company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Viacom wrongly identifies itself as the copyright holder and then exercises rights that are otherwise those of the actual copyright holder, that is a form of copyright infringement. Sue them. Small claims court will do. If they don't show, you can get a default judgment, have your rights affirmed by the court so YouTube can put it back, and forward a bill to Viacom's legal department. No big deal, cost you a few hours and $50 I would guess...
    Robert Shapiro () - 06 02 07 - 23:39

    as I just posted on the forum... niko has given his permission to use the material via Irrlicht's liberal license, so veegun has full rights to make derived works and distribute them. So (correct me if I'm wrong) he's the only person who can do any suing.
    I'd quite happily donate the $50 just to see how it turns out though ;-)
    gaz - 07 02 07 - 00:41

    Issuing a DMCA takedown notice requires acceptance of liability if the notice should incorrectly identify the ownership of the target material.

    Check with the EFF; they may be able to provide pro bono legal advice to counter Viacom and actually do them some damage.

  57. not such a good idea by oohshiny · · Score: 1

    Here's an even better idea, get rid of the DMCA

    I'm not sure that's such a good idea, because in that case, sites like YouTube might not exist at all, and, in fact, all sites that permit open signup and posting would be at grave risk.

    I think this part of the DMCA may be working out alright. What courts need to do now is punish companies like Viacom when they try to abuse the DMCA.

  58. Meanwhile, let's mitigate damages: by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    That is how the DMCA works. The point is that it holds the carrier (in this case, Youtube) harmless as long as they comply. Generally, the carrier of the alleged copyrighted works will comply and give the "owner" an opportunity to fight it. The point is, you can fight it, and should within the law.

    Meanwhile, if I understand the safe harbor provision correctly, here's how you mitigate damages:
      - Viacom has sent a takedown notice, under oath, that your material is under their copyright and used without permission.
      - ISP has taken it down (one of two ways they're in the clear).
      - You send a notice to the ISP, also under oath, that you actually have adequate rights to post it (in this case as the owner of the full copyright) and please put it back up now.
      - The ISP puts it back up and sends a notice to Viacom that they believe the takedown notice was in error (the OTHER way they're in the clear).

    If your ISP puts it back up your damage has been greatly reduced compared to taking on Viacom directly (and/or through the courts) and waiting for that to work out. (When assessing damages courts expect you to try any damage-mitigating recourse first, rather than letting things go in order to run up a big bill for your opposition, and won't award the additional damage you took after your failure to take the quick path.)

    If your ISP DOESN'T put it back up then THEY may be on the hook to YOU, from then on, because they failed to perform on their own duty when they didn't have to keep your stuff down to stay in the safe harbor.

    Given that you're their customer and Viacom is an interloper, they'll probably want to keep you happy and tell Viacom to take a hike. Give them a legal leg to stand on and they'll likely be more than happy to pogo-dance with you.

    After you're back up you may have less to sue Viacom for. But the remainder will probably be more than worth it - if only to cause Viacom more damage than they caused you. Meanwhile your stuff is back up, your ISP is out of the loop and doing the job they were paid for, and it's all between you and Viacom.

    IANAL so I could be wrong. But if you really own the copyright on a work wrongly taken down by a media-company's takedown spam I don't see any downside to telling your ISP, under oath, that it should go back up.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  59. ... "Fen Fire" by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... Just checked. The terms are somewhat hazy but it appears you are more correct than me. Allthough I'd actually now translate it with "Fen Fire". I'd say all three terms overlap somehow.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  60. Quick bit of detective work. by aug24 · · Score: 1
    I think Viacom owns MTV which owns CMT which owns the back catalog of one Jimmy Somerville. The video was entitled "Sunday nite dinner at Redbones in Somerville, Mass".

    This suggests they think they own any video labelled with any one word matching any one word in their artist name and work list, irrespective of content or any other words present which might provide a clue to a human.

    Clearly they are (a) incompetent, (b) fools, and (c) arseholes. So, normal for a record company then.

    Justin.

    --
    You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
  61. Not sure that's the issue. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Not sure if I'm entirely understanding your point.

    In the example I was talking about above, I was scanning a bunch of old slides, which we can assume the copyright holders have authorized me to scan (hence, why they gave me boxes of slides and asked me to scan them onto the internet-thingamajiggy). So it's not as thought it was an unauthorized derivative work, if in fact it was a derivative work.

    My question is basically, would there be two copyrights: e.g., (c) 1939, Grandma (for the original photo), and (c) 2006, me (for the new scan), or just the former.

    I think, based on the court case that another respondent cites above, that it would be just the former case; the scan, if it's purely a refixing of the original work in a new medium, without much in the way of creative "work," only the original copyright would apply. So it would be (c) 1939, not 2006 -- a big difference in terms of when the digital copy would hit the public domain (the 2006 one wouldn't end up there, unless I ceded it earlier, until 70 years after my death, while the 1939 one may already be there, or may be there soon -- the law is a bit byzantine on post-1923/pre-1978 works).

    So I don't think that the authorization to make the derivative work was really at issue here, or I was assuming for the purposes of argument that I had such authorization, given to me by implication in the request to scan the photos.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Not sure that's the issue. by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Right. The grandparent post (by Excelsior) was out of context and did not correctly apply to this discussion. The law he cited was basically that it is infringement for you to create a derivative of a work that is under copyright unless you have the copyright holder's permission to do so (which you have). You may also create derivatives under Fair Use (which is irrelevant here). None of that has any bearing on the derivative copyright issue.

      The modified/format shifted work obtains a NEW copyright in your name if-and-only-if the modification you did was enough to support a new copyright in itself. Imagine that the copyrighted picture wasn't there... imagine that it was just a plain gray picture of a circle. If you just format shift it and just crop the image or tweak the contrast and color balance, then the resulting image would not obtain a new copyright. However if the photograph had scratches or dirt that you manually cleaned up... then imagine making those exact same manual modifications to the plain image of the gray circle. You would be adding lines and dots to the plain gray circle. That resulting image would contain enough creative work to support it's own independent copyright.

      If the original work is still under copyright, and assuming you did enough creative work to support a new copyright, then the new image would be covered by two copyrights, and use of the new image would need permission of both copyright holders. Not that that is true even if you committed copyright infringement in the process... you would have a new derivative image and you committed infringement... and you would hold a copyright on that derivative... and that derivative could not be legally used by anyone without both copyright holder's permissions.

      If the original work is still under copyright, and assuming you did enough creative work to support a new copyright, then in a few years the first copyright would run out and the new copyright would still remain. Then use of the image would only require the new copyright holder's permission.

      If the original copyright expired, and assuming you did enough creative work to support a new copyright, then use of the image would require the new copyright holder's permission.

      If you did not do enough creative work to support an independent new copyright, then you simply ignore the format shift (or other minimal modification) and just go by the original copyright (if any) and the date that it expires.

      Based on your description, it sounds like the 1938 copyright and *only* the 1938 applies. You could trivially do some minimal touch ups to deliberately create a new 2007 copyright if you wanted to do so... but you would need the original copyright holder's permission to do so. And if you were working for the MPAA or any other copyright industry you obviously could and would abuse the situation to deliberately do pointless minimal alterations just to keep a perpetually fresh copyright. No one could make public domain use of the new copy of an expired work because it would have a new copyright. Someone trying to make public domain use of an expired work would be forced to try to dig up an ancient copy to work from.

      IANAL, but I have read all of US copyright law and I have read many court rulings and other sources on the subject.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  62. Re:when is a solution not a solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't want your content taken down as collateral damage in a mass takedown, don't submit it to YouTube.

    This is as stupid as people who say:

    Women, if you don't want to be raped then don't leave the house alone after dark.

  63. Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I for one welcome our blind new megamedia overlords.

    (Sorry.)

  64. Spelling correction is correct (nt) by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    no text, yep, I can't spell worth crap - we should all know that by now :)

  65. Nooo! by a4r6 · · Score: 1

    I went so long without seeing a reference...

  66. Assert back at them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reply that the information given does not seem to meet the proof (rather than just assertion) that Viacom et al are the copyright owners of all the claimed works.

    That is also part of the DMCA, is it not? You must respond to the takedown appropriately.

    Well, ask for proof rather than assertion. Since the perjury bit has never been enacted on, you cannot rely on that being enough to feel assured the claimant is stating truth.

  67. just another viacom case by fer_ref · · Score: 1

    This is another case of Viacom/Youtube removing a video of a guy that interviewed celebrities like schwarzennegger, Stallone, Kim bassinger, Jim Carrey, Britney ans such. Of course the material was of his property. http://lacamisetadelmundial.com/blog/me-cago-en-yo u-tube/ Still in Google Video... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-691961289 4750845747&hl=es