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EU May Force iTunes Store To Accept Returns
Sweet Harmony writes "ArsTechnica is reporting that the European Union may soon require online music stores to accept returns. A review of European consumer protection laws has highlighted online sales of 'digital content services' as an area where existing consumer protection laws need to be harmonized. 'The EC would like to standardize cooling-off periods along with other aspects of the EU's consumer protection laws. One of the issues being considered is whether the rules on consumer sales should apply to 'digital content services' like music.'"
Poor Britney.
Yay! Now I can get 10,000 songs without having to spend $9,999 dollars!
Oh wait
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Most stores wont allow you to return the goods unless they are faulty. Maybe you could say DRM is a fault....
TFA talks about the The Norwegian Consumer Ombudsman, then goes on to say "Many other EU member countries". Norway is, however, in the EEA so may implements much EU regulation anyway, but get your facts right, please. /rant
back on topic, this is a good thing, just because I buy something online doesn't mean I should have lees consumer protection than if I buy it physically.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
This would be good for people like myself who accidentally bought "I Wanna Fuck You" by Noreaga & Scarlett instead of the Akwon and Snoop Dog version. It would be nice to get the money refunded, and they can gladly take that song back.
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
Sure, people could use this to rip off music companies, but the same deal applies to just about any sale or service. Why should music get a special deal because it is digital?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Why not just mandate a "preview" where you can hear a prominent 30 second clip (e.g. melody or chorus or some such). Then say "if you decide to buy, you agree there is no return" in big bold letters. I don't know if itunes already does this (I think it does, so forgive the ignorance) but that should quash any problems.
In the grand scheme of things, if there are drm'ed files that are corrupt that's another issue. But if you just blindly buy a dozen tracks without knowing a thing about them you assume the risk. Not like you can "uncopy" or "unhear" them.
Just like movie theaters, I know at the AMC it was policy that if you left upto 30 mins in a movie you could get a full refund. After that you're screwed. I actually made use of that policy during the movie "Any Given Sunday" [or whatever it's called, that stupid football movie]. I walked out after 15 mins and got my money back.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Isn't it about any online music retailer, DRM or not?
Hint: the answer isn't "because iTunes is the most popular store". When Microsoft was targeted for doing things like offering refunds for unused Windows licenses, Microsoft is mentioned explicitly because it is the only one engaged in that behavior.
So why is only "iTunes" mentioned in stories like these when in fact most (if not all - I haven't checked) also likely have similar practices?
Or am I missing something?
My karma's going to go to hell for this, but here's an interesting thought.
This "return" concept is entirely impossible without DRM.
This is funny, because some of those EU countries are also demanding that the music be un-DRM'd. At least with DRM, you can in theory handle returns in a sane manner (invalidate the license on the music), while for MP3 files, it's much more difficult. One way around this *might* be to finger print the MP3s, and keep a database of what you're allowed to play. Hackable? Yes, but so is everything else.
Of course, some compromise could probably negate most of the negative impacts, such as limiting the number of returns per year, and only giving in-store credit.
How do you return DOWNLOADED MUSIC?!?!?!?
I hear the Zune switches modes from squirt to suck.
Developers: We can use your help.
Personally, I think this is kinda fair-ish. If you're going to pretend that digital files are scarce objects, then you have to accept all the responsibilities of selling scarce objects in a retail marketplace, and that means accepting returns.
If, however, they were to do away with copy protection entirely, thereby dropping the scarce object fiction, then they could provably make the argument to a technically unsophisticated crowd (politicians) that "returns" are impossible. Under such circumstances, I think we could let music vendors slide on returns.
So: If you sell with copy protection, you have to accept returns. If you sell without copy protection, then you don't have to accept returns. Seem fair? Fair-ish?
One side-effect of this might be that you couldn't return music CDs, since they can be freely copied.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Read the article again: if I understood it correctly, this mandatory cooling off period during which returns must be accepted would only apply to content that has interoperability problems. In other words, it is very likely that it would only apply to DRM-protected content.
So it would obviously not apply to Ogg Vorbis or MP3 music files because these are not tied to specific devices. On the other hand, this would apply to music or other digital content that does not let you exercise your usual consumer rights. And if the music can only be played on one specific device under some specific conditions, then the provider would have to accept returns. Presumably, the DRM protection would also require some sort of online validation to ensure that the DRM-protected content that you are trying to play has not been "returned".
Even if the DRM scheme does not require you to be online every time you attempt to play some protected content, there are ways to limit your ability to play "returned" content. For example, the database holding the keys for all your protected music could be versioned or could use some key chaining that makes it very difficult for you to re-insert a key that has been removed. So even if you restore both the music and the keys from backups, you would not be able to do much with them or you would not be able to play anything else that you downloaded later. Given that the DRM stuff is creeping increasingly deeper into some proprietary operating systems, you may even have to re-install your OS if you want to be able to play the "returned" files. Although this would be possible in theory, I doubt that you would enjoy the experience...
Anyway, don't forget that DRM is defective by design.
-Raphaël
"EU May Force iTunes Store to Accept Returns"
Or they "may" not. Let me know when this is actually a fact not just speculation.
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
If i upload songs without a reciept can I get store credit?
What about prostitutes?
If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate.
If a movie is bad, I still pay for it. If I should be upset with anyone, it's whoever suggested I see it in the first place, not the movie theatre. If there were kids crying through an entire R-rated movie because someone didn't want to pay for a baby-sitter and the theatre didn't want to kick them out, I might ask for a refund. If it happens again, I probably won't return to that theatre.
If I buy a piece of software and it doesn't do what I want, I'm stuck with it. For example, if I bought a music editor, I couldn't return it because it doesn't edit photos. If it doesn't do what it advertised I might look for a refund.
If I buy music from iTunes and don't like that I can't play it on Linux, I have the choice of burning and ripping, finding an illegal alternative method of removing the DRM, or forgetting about the music. If I buy a song from iTunes and it won't play on my iPod, I'd pursue a refund.
In short, company's should only have to provide what they tell you they're selling you. If they misrepresent the product, you should be able to get your money back. If you don't do anything to make sure you know what you're buying, I have no pity.