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EU May Force iTunes Store To Accept Returns
Sweet Harmony writes "ArsTechnica is reporting that the European Union may soon require online music stores to accept returns. A review of European consumer protection laws has highlighted online sales of 'digital content services' as an area where existing consumer protection laws need to be harmonized. 'The EC would like to standardize cooling-off periods along with other aspects of the EU's consumer protection laws. One of the issues being considered is whether the rules on consumer sales should apply to 'digital content services' like music.'"
Poor Britney.
Yay! Now I can get 10,000 songs without having to spend $9,999 dollars!
Oh wait
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Most stores wont allow you to return the goods unless they are faulty. Maybe you could say DRM is a fault....
TFA talks about the The Norwegian Consumer Ombudsman, then goes on to say "Many other EU member countries". Norway is, however, in the EEA so may implements much EU regulation anyway, but get your facts right, please. /rant
back on topic, this is a good thing, just because I buy something online doesn't mean I should have lees consumer protection than if I buy it physically.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
This would be good for people like myself who accidentally bought "I Wanna Fuck You" by Noreaga & Scarlett instead of the Akwon and Snoop Dog version. It would be nice to get the money refunded, and they can gladly take that song back.
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
Sure, people could use this to rip off music companies, but the same deal applies to just about any sale or service. Why should music get a special deal because it is digital?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Why not just mandate a "preview" where you can hear a prominent 30 second clip (e.g. melody or chorus or some such). Then say "if you decide to buy, you agree there is no return" in big bold letters. I don't know if itunes already does this (I think it does, so forgive the ignorance) but that should quash any problems.
In the grand scheme of things, if there are drm'ed files that are corrupt that's another issue. But if you just blindly buy a dozen tracks without knowing a thing about them you assume the risk. Not like you can "uncopy" or "unhear" them.
Just like movie theaters, I know at the AMC it was policy that if you left upto 30 mins in a movie you could get a full refund. After that you're screwed. I actually made use of that policy during the movie "Any Given Sunday" [or whatever it's called, that stupid football movie]. I walked out after 15 mins and got my money back.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
How do you return DOWNLOADED MUSIC?!?!?!? To return something usually means you give that thing back and no longer posess it in exchange for a refund, store credit, or replacement item. How do you return a digital file? It's not like they can check to see if you have it anymore. Even if you delete the file, it can be recovered. You will always have that file unless all your digital media has been confiscated upon "return".
Meh, $10 says that they put something in there like "if you play/burn this song you can't return it", just like the no-returns on open software/CD rules that exist already.
Once upon a time I worked on the projects TypeOnCall and SoftwareDispatch. The problem with returns where no physical media changes hands is tricky because the brick and morter way you get some physical media back, where electronic media you have no evidence the consumer has completely removed the item from their system. Introducing this policy would likely force an online store into the position of requiring audit of the end users systems to ensure removal. You can't stop someone from copying something and returning it, but there is value is in the doc, jewel case, or whatever. Take that away, and DRM gets a whole lot more incentive.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Isn't it about any online music retailer, DRM or not?
Hint: the answer isn't "because iTunes is the most popular store". When Microsoft was targeted for doing things like offering refunds for unused Windows licenses, Microsoft is mentioned explicitly because it is the only one engaged in that behavior.
So why is only "iTunes" mentioned in stories like these when in fact most (if not all - I haven't checked) also likely have similar practices?
Or am I missing something?
My karma's going to go to hell for this, but here's an interesting thought.
This "return" concept is entirely impossible without DRM.
This is funny, because some of those EU countries are also demanding that the music be un-DRM'd. At least with DRM, you can in theory handle returns in a sane manner (invalidate the license on the music), while for MP3 files, it's much more difficult. One way around this *might* be to finger print the MP3s, and keep a database of what you're allowed to play. Hackable? Yes, but so is everything else.
Of course, some compromise could probably negate most of the negative impacts, such as limiting the number of returns per year, and only giving in-store credit.
Personally, I think this is kinda fair-ish. If you're going to pretend that digital files are scarce objects, then you have to accept all the responsibilities of selling scarce objects in a retail marketplace, and that means accepting returns.
If, however, they were to do away with copy protection entirely, thereby dropping the scarce object fiction, then they could provably make the argument to a technically unsophisticated crowd (politicians) that "returns" are impossible. Under such circumstances, I think we could let music vendors slide on returns.
So: If you sell with copy protection, you have to accept returns. If you sell without copy protection, then you don't have to accept returns. Seem fair? Fair-ish?
One side-effect of this might be that you couldn't return music CDs, since they can be freely copied.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
The same will likely also apply to software if this goes ahead. Don't like it or it does not do what you expect? Sell it, or return it. Sure MS etc might make that very hard, but some companies do allow it. Many countries do have comsumer guarantees that support the customer and in that will make it harder for companies not to take back merchandise.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
"EU May Force iTunes Store to Accept Returns"
Or they "may" not. Let me know when this is actually a fact not just speculation.
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
That's an interesting way to look at it. Are you also entitled to a refund of a movie ticket if you didn't enjoy it? What about a concert?
If i upload songs without a reciept can I get store credit?
What about prostitutes?
If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate.
If a movie is bad, I still pay for it. If I should be upset with anyone, it's whoever suggested I see it in the first place, not the movie theatre. If there were kids crying through an entire R-rated movie because someone didn't want to pay for a baby-sitter and the theatre didn't want to kick them out, I might ask for a refund. If it happens again, I probably won't return to that theatre.
If I buy a piece of software and it doesn't do what I want, I'm stuck with it. For example, if I bought a music editor, I couldn't return it because it doesn't edit photos. If it doesn't do what it advertised I might look for a refund.
If I buy music from iTunes and don't like that I can't play it on Linux, I have the choice of burning and ripping, finding an illegal alternative method of removing the DRM, or forgetting about the music. If I buy a song from iTunes and it won't play on my iPod, I'd pursue a refund.
In short, company's should only have to provide what they tell you they're selling you. If they misrepresent the product, you should be able to get your money back. If you don't do anything to make sure you know what you're buying, I have no pity.
Are you also entitled to a refund of a movie ticket if you didn't enjoy it?
Most theatres will refund your money if you leave within the first 10-15 minutes. I don't know about you, but it usually doesn't take me that long to figure out if a movie is trash.
The one time I've had cause to complain about an iTMS purchase I got a refund within 24hrs. That was an Audible product too - no-one told 'em that Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is supposed to be in stereo. So I still have their crappy mono version, got my money back and bought the CDs off play.com instead.
Do I need to upload the file back to iTunes?
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Why would you return a non-DRM'd MP3 file. You can't just say "I don't like the song" likely to only reson you could return it is because it is corrupted or has some technical error. So you send it back a "proof" and they then sed yu the same track but non-defective. just like with an opened CD all they will do is give you the same CD title in exchange.
You SO dont understand the nature of full EU membership and the simple EEA-agreement. I am a Norwegian lawyer and I have studied this subject at Uni. If you only knew how deeply connected we are to EFTA - and not the EU! It is in fact the EFTA countries that have the actual agreement with the EU. Norway routes everything through the EFTA system and the EFTA court where it belongs. Because the EU did not want non-members to work within their institutions. The EEA is very limited in scope compared to the full legislation for members nations of the EU. Not to mention the requirement to join the common currency.
We are not the quickest to implement EU directives any longer - in fact we have been slacking. The Schengen agreement is not part of the EU framework. The United Kingdom and Ireland are the only ones that are not signatories to the agreement and convention. Every other member state is now party to the agreement or in the process of ratifying it.
As the headline of TFA states, this is about online music sales. What is specifically about iTunes is the Norwegian case where iTunes have been accused of breaking existing law. The law is the same for Apple as for any other online music store. The Consumer Council of Norway had recieved complaints about iTunes and brought the case to the consumer ombudsman.
There are no Apple-only laws and no grand conspiracy against Apple. "because iTunes is the most popular store" actually is part of the explanation though. The Consumer Council has stated that they filed the complaint against Apple first since iTunes is largest and most popular.