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Michael Crichton on Why Gene Patents Are Bad

BayaWeaver writes "Michael Crichton, author of The Andromeda Strain and Jurassic Park has made a strong case against gene patents in an op-ed for the New York Times. Striking an emotional chord, he begins with 'You, or someone you love, may die because of a gene patent that should never have been granted in the first place. Sound far-fetched? Unfortunately, it's only too real.' From there, he moves on to use logic, statistics, and his way with words to make his point. Arguing against the high costs of gene therapies thanks to related patents, he eventually offers hope that one day legislation will de-incentivize the hoarding of scientific knowledge. As he points out: 'When SARS was spreading across the globe, medical researchers hesitated to study it — because of patent concerns. There is no clearer indication that gene patents block innovation, inhibit research and put us all at risk.'"

68 of 367 comments (clear)

  1. I wish that he had written this earlier. by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since his anti Global Warming book, he no longer appears to be as popular. In fact, I would guess that that little bit of political foley probably cost him dearly. Now, he comes up with something intelligent and I suspect that it will be easy for others to cast doubt on his arguments.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:I wish that he had written this earlier. by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

      Of course it's easy to cast doubt on his arguments. If genes were not patentable, John Hammond would not have been able to patent all of that dinosaur DNA, and we would have had even more dinosaur-inhabited islands out there. There simply aren't enough cynical mathematicians out there to protect us against people building more of these parks. More people could have been senselessly killed in dinosaur attacks.

      Fact: Gene patents save lives.

    2. Re:I wish that he had written this earlier. by Goaway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you also complain about the "church" of heliocentrism or the "church" of the germ theory of disease? Stop projecting your own ignorance of science onto those who actually do know things.

    3. Re:I wish that he had written this earlier. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nothing like having someone who is proven to have no intellectual credibility take up a position that you agree with. This is an unfortunate one as well, because it directly affects drug and biotech firms, and they are all serious patent offenders with deep pockets. They'll tear him apart as a proven intellectual pimp, and it'll hurt the whole damn issue.

      Crichton's popularity or lack thereof has more to do with the abysmal crap he's been writing than with his ridiculous stance on global warming...Did you read Prey? What a crapfest. The evil nanotech clouds are defeated by spraying them with a mysterious gunk infection that had somehow infiltrated into the cleanrooms where they were manufactured, but which, magically, didn't effect them when they're out roaming around in the fricking world.

      He was great once, but it's been a long time.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    4. Re:I wish that he had written this earlier. by lymond01 · · Score: 2

      You must've read his book. You found it in the fiction section of the bookstore. You might try various news sources if you're looking for something closer to fact.

      Michael Crichton's a smart guy who wrote a work of fiction based on current science, politics, and the underlying fear of global warming. He's in the same category as Tom Clancy and John Grisham. He's doing it for the money, and I daresay he's doing it for more money than any global warming researcher as most research money is ear-marked for defense (I work at a University, so take my word on this).

      If you start hyping his fiction as reality, you're just asking to get picked on.

    5. Re:I wish that he had written this earlier. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did Al Gore write Prey? I had no idea!

      You can always pick out the whackjob conservatives because, to them, Al Gore invented Global Warming. You can just feel the "I hate Al Gore" vibe.

      But that's just a bit dated now. W talked about Global Climate change in his State of the Union. More than a hundred countries world wide have acknowledged that there is something to the issue, and thousands of scientists have piled up mountains of data supporting the hypothesis that the climate is changing, and it is widely accepted that human activity has something to do with it.

      So grow a brain. This is science, not politics, and just because your "team" doesn't believe in science doesn't mean it ain't true.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    6. Re:I wish that he had written this earlier. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I still think he's an idiot, but I reference him as kind of a conservative bellwether: "Even this moron who is as conservative as they come thinks that this crap is happening! You should too!"

      Come right down to it, the anti-science conservatives are really just a big personality cult, so pointing out that their little cult is coming into line with everyone else ought to help out a little bit.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  2. Ah, the global warming guy by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not sure I'm too keen on Michael Crichton after his comments about global warming. I don't think gene patents are a swell idea, but I'm not sure I'd hold up Crichton as an authority on scientific matters.

    1. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by IflyRC · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm personally glad he voiced his opinion on global warming. The sad fact that he is slowly being ostrasized for his differing viewpoint a black eye on the science community. Scientists should always question - if not, the world would still be flat.

    2. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Questioning is fine. He didn't question, he stated... and saying that global warming and other disasters are the cause of an evil environmentalist cabal isn't especially scientific.

    3. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by paeanblack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not sure I'm too keen on Michael Crichton after his comments about global warming. I don't think gene patents are a swell idea, but I'm not sure I'd hold up Crichton as an authority on scientific matters.

      Yes, because science works like a democracy. A bunch of us get together and vote on the laws of nature, and nature obeys. If you step out of line and promote a theory opposing "the consensus of the scientific community", then we burn you at the stake _and_ revoke your funding.

      Trust us. It's better this way. Do you know how annoying it is when some uppity prick like Newton or Einstein comes along and claims that all the old theories are wrong? It really sucks when they manage to prove it, because the rest of us look like we're sitting there with our thumbs up our asses.

      Global Warming is a celebrity field right now, and it will keep alot of us employed for a very long time. You can understand why we are a little protective of our sacred consensus, right?

    4. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The merit of gene patents depends primarily on economics and ethics, not the science of genetics. I know it sounds like a nitpick, but it's a serious error to think that, because e.g. you are intimately familiar with monkey genes, you are more qualified to say whether patents on monkey genes would promote innovation.

    5. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by sdnick · · Score: 2, Informative

      What do Crichton's past biased comments on global warming have to do with the fact that he's now opining about something else? He shot his credibility, and now he's taking a stance on an important issue which will now suffer for his participation.

      I don't pretend to know much about the issue, but I don't see how dissenting views and questions in science are a bad thing. How did Crichton's credibility (whatever that is) get "shot"? Were all or even most of Crichton's views on global warming proven wrong?

      I love how people like to talk about controversial, yet widely accepted scientific truths as "religions". See, when a scientist who has tons of documentation and has spent his whole life working on the case that people are causing climate change gets pissed off because a fiction writer "disproves" it all

      A fiction writer can't disprove science without doing or relying on science - if Crichton has a point, it's based on the work of other scientists who've spend their lives working on the same subject and have tons of documentation to back up their views. Real science can take rigorous examination and questioning - religion can't.

      , putting the smack down on years of attempts to educate the public about the danger, it's because it's a "religion", not because someone is just shoveling a load of inaccurate crap.

      If it's inaccurate crap, it should and will be disproven or shown to be unprovable, like the Intelligent Design nonsense. Attempting to shout down someone whose scientific views don't agree with yours is bad for science and has a proven track record of failure throughout history.

      On the other hand, when an actual religion gets slapped down for trying to get a load of inaccurate crap taught in schools, it's because science is "biased" and "unfair".

      I'm not even sure what you're talking about here - if you're referring to the Intelligent Design thing, obviously that's an attempt to introduce the concept of an unprovable and unverifiable Intelligent Designer into the science of evolution. If there are legitimate counter-claims to the global warming claims, they will be based on verifiable, repeatable research. Denying reality because you don't like it is not good science, no matter what side of the issue you currently find most persuasive.

    6. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by amabbi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Questioning is fine. He didn't question, he stated... and saying that global warming and other disasters are the cause of an evil environmentalist cabal isn't especially scientific.

      You clearly did not read State of Fear. Without editorializing my opinion on global warming, what Crichton does is offer a case that global warming is not a slam-dunk scientific case as the media makes it out to be. He fashions what he admits is a fantasy tale involving conspiracy around this idea, but never... EVER.. does he state that global warming is complete fiction and environmental catastrophe is part of a conspiracy of maniacs.

      He then states his opinion on global warming in the appendix, and provides references to support his beliefs. Some of it is compelling. The RealClimate people focus on one graph that he uses which utilizes an extrema of data points, and then justifies itself to complete bash the rest of his arguments. That certainly isn't scientific.

      And so is bashing a man's opinions without reading his work.

    7. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by Sique · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thomas S. Kuhn called and wants his paradigm change back!

      Global Warming research will keep you employed, independent of your stated hypotheses. As if scientists critical of the thesis, Global Warming would be a) existant and b) influenced by Man weren't able to get any funding.

      Science at least from a social point of view works not as a democracy, but more like horse racing. You can bet on whatever you want, but only one horse will win, and there is more money to be made, but also more risk in picking outsiders. It took some time and lots of little races to finally admit Global Warming to the big races, and now Global Warming is in front with some length, and the crowd is chanting "Global Warming! Global Warming!". It looks as if Global Warming will make it, but there are still people betting on the old champions Steady State and Atmospherical Balance, who might come from behind and could still be overtaking Global Warming.

      The race is on, place your bets!

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    8. Re:Ah, the global warming guy by ROU+Nuisance+Value · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wow! So:
      - Peer review and scientific consensus are forms of superstitious mass group-think
      - Or, if not, peer review and scientific consensus == new forms of hysterical politico/religious pogrom
      - A non-practicing MD novelist == Newton and Einstein
      - These thoughts are all +5 Insightful
      May I please have some shoyu with my Refried Straw Men?

  3. Please RTFA by walterwalter · · Score: 2, Funny

    In a State of Fear!

  4. Compelling by modemboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The most compelling argument for me was this:
    "Countries that don't have gene patents actually offer better gene testing than we do, because when multiple labs are allowed to do testing, more mutations are discovered, leading to higher-quality tests."

    Making an economic argument, that other countries will gain an advantage over us, is the only way to convince the people who actually have the power to change the situation.

  5. Hey, I wrote a book about genetic stuff by 0racle · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey this is genetics, I know this!

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  6. it's simply absurd by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i don't think there is a better argument for prior art than that mother nature made it. but simply finding a gene in a fruit fly or an aneorbic bacterium is not ground to patent anything. and certainly simply finding a gene and elucidating its behavior in the human body is not grounds either. grounds for a nobel prize, but not grounds for exclusivity

    obviously, not according to law, but obviously according to simple common sense

    now, if in some future decade, scientists make a genetic sequence that has no similarity to anything in mother nature anywhere that is useful, i'd say they can patent that.... i said NO similiarity. it's not like you can change one base pair and claim you've done something novel right?

    but patenting what already exists? is there no better example of greed undermining common sense? is there no greater absurdity in the relentless march of intellectual property law into insanity and evil in the name of the almighty buck?

    ip law is important for rewarding creators and innovators. not researchers of what already exists. the reward for them is scientific, altruistic, academic, and intellectual. it's even rewarding financially, but not in the framework of patents

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:it's simply absurd by rgriff59 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I agree that it is absurd, but how about countering the absurd with absurdity?

      What if everyone with Hepatitis C were to sue the 'owner of the genome for Hepatitis C'? A patent would imply the invention, and the unauthorized infection would imply a failure to control and contain said invention adequately. If I 'own' a dog, and it bites someone, I am responsible. If you 'own' a disease and it infects someone, you are responsible. It doesn't sound like much of a leap, if the system allows such absurd ownership in the first place. A dose of liability to go with that ownership would make such ownership much less attractive.

  7. "fact of nature" by l2718 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, 35 USC 102 already limits patents to a "process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter". Facts of nature (such as the sequence of a gene) are not patentable -- though Congress in its infinite wisdon has declined to specificially add this to the law (as done in some countries). All that remains is for the court (that is, the CAFC) to actually care about the law.

  8. All patents are bad by dada21 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Honestly, if you take this opinion further, you can see that all patents are bad -- when it comes to the general populace. Patents are a post-market solution to create scarcity of a supply of something. Scarcity is needed to increase the price per the supply/demand curve. By artificially making an item scarce, a higher demand will mean a higher price. Patents are uncompetitive, though, the absolute sole reason why certain monopolies exist.

    Some will say that inventors won't invent without patents, but this is untrue if you look at the vast number of modern inventions that we use every day that have 10,000 parts that have expired patents and maybe 10-20 that are still patented. Look at cell phones -- each phone has some obscure patent pending, but the vast majority of phones are fairly identical, and yet there is still a HUGE market for phones. Why do inventors keep creating new phones if the majority of their parts are unprotected?

    Some will say that drugs won't get invented, but if you look at the initial medical treatment market, we had doctors who actually wanted to help people by creating new drugs and allowing them to be manufacturered by others regardless of who invented it. Consider this: if you knew of 3 companies making the same new drug, who would you trust more? The company who spent years in clinical trials, showing you that their ingredients is safe, or the 2 companies who attempted to copy said drug through reverse engineering it -- possibly incorporating something unsafe? The same is true with any "invention" that isn't patented -- you decide what product you need based on the cost and the safety. Sometimes the less expensive product is less safe or less effective, something that isn't the case.

    Gene patents are also ridiculous -- why should an artificial State-enforced monopoly be placed on something that obviously can be utilized better by a market of competitors. If you want to be cautious about your competition "stealing" your research, just start your own clinics that don't share their research with the open market. Call it DRM of genetic research -- don't share it with others, and the chance that they'll steal it is slim. For most companies, it would be more advantageous for them to purchase the information outright than try to "steal" it through corporate espionage. They can also work to develop their own solutions if they realize that you found a solution -- but that development will cost money and time, of course. Still, it would seem to be better for the public and all the various markets to have a competitive market for genetic research rather than a monopolistic one that keeps only a few companies in the top tier and the rest out of the business.

    1. Re:All patents are bad by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do inventors keep creating new phones if the majority of their parts are unprotected?

      Most if not all phones are created by large multi-national corporations who can deal with patent lawsuits, but mostly deal with cross-licensing deals upon potential violations. This works out fine as MAD among those companies, but the small-time inventor has no such legal team or portfolio. Oddly, though he's the one patents help the most, he might also be the one to suffer the most, depending on the situation. One thing is for sure, if a small inventor can bring an idea to market in 5 years, without any IP protection, a big multi-national can take that idea, re-implement it and get it manufactured in Asia in time for Christmas. This isn't encouraging. Sorry, I don't have a solution to offer, just pointing out some of the pitfalls.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:All patents are bad by WebHostingGuy · · Score: 3, Informative

      >>>Consider this: if you knew of 3 companies making the same new drug, who would you trust more? The company who spent years in clinical trials, showing you that their ingredients is safe, or the 2 companies who attempted to copy said drug through reverse engineering it -- possibly incorporating something unsafe?

      This does not hold true. Today when a drug goes off patent the maker of the drug continues to sell the drug along with the generics (at close to the same price). Even though the generics do not have the same quality control as the maker of the drug generics are used instead because the cost is slightly lower. The cost is the only thing that matters to some HMOs and insurance plans. (And yes, there is a difference in manufacturing and quality control).

      There is no brand loyalty for drugs because of the outside influence exerted by the insurance companies and pharmacies. Did you ever wonder why there are laws that say pharmacies can substitute a generic drug for a brand one? The end cost most of the time is exactly the same, however, generics sell the generic brand to pharmacies for a lower price than the brand name. So, when a pharmacy substitutes a generic for a name brand they pocket the difference in price while they bill the insurance company nearly the same as the brand name. That's the outside influence. So why doesn't the brand name drug just lower the price to the pharmacies? They usually can't because their manufacturing costs are higher because they have the quality control issues that generics generally don't. This is not to say generics don't care about quality control, but there are large differences.

      Some patents are needed, period. Gene patents are not because I believe you should not be able to patent nature. It's a prior art thing. Just wait, someday God is going to come down and sue for his patents back.

      --
      Quality Hosting e3 Servers
    3. Re:All patents are bad by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some will say that drugs won't get invented, but if you look at the initial medical treatment market, we had doctors who actually wanted to help people by creating new drugs and allowing them to be manufacturered by others regardless of who invented it.

      Well, drug R&D is a bit more expensive than cell phone engineering. It mostly is the result of having to pay doctors to run the clinical trials (if you have 10,000 subjects, every one of them has a doctor, and they ALL get paid). And there is a much higher risk of failure. If you make a new cell phone chances are that the new phone will work, even if it doesn't corner the market. Not so with drugs - there is a good chance a new drug won't work at all, and even if it does it isn't guaranteed to corner the market for long.

      I'm not sure what you mean by the "initial medical treatment market", and the free "drugs" that doctors invented therein. Can you give a specific example? I'm not aware of many examples of non-profit-originated drugs on the market. Note - I define drug as a dosable substance shown to be safe and effective, not just some molecule that suppresses tumor growth in a test tube (bleach works really well for that). Usually when people talk about "drugs" developed for almost no cost they're talking about some molecule that has some activity in some assay - often with no thought to safety, bioavailability, etc. Commercial pharma companies spend alomst nothing (per molecule) developing such concept molecules - the costs come in when you try to solve all the other issues. If all you want is some chemical that has an effect in some assay any pharma company could have its robots find one in a few days. There is a whole lot more to curing disease than just switching off some enzyme...

  9. Look on the bright side... by robably · · Score: 5, Funny

    You, or someone you love, may die because of a gene patent that should never have been granted in the first place.
    On the other hand, it could be someone you really hate. It all evens out.
  10. Not just bad, but plain wrong. by tygerstripes · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Genetic code is surely the biggest case of Prior Art going. Fine, you can patent a light-bulb, but you can't patent Electricity just because you discovered roughly what it was and how it worked!

    Genes are usually discovered, not invented. Most genetic treatment involves finding out what a gene is, how it works, and how it goes wrong. That's hardly a creative invention, is it?

    --
    Meta will eat itself
  11. I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Funny
    I've read a lot of Michael Crichton's works. I enjoyed them.

    What I do not enjoy, however, is his political commentary. The same can be said for Orson Scott Card. Why is it that authors, singers, actors, etc feel the need to get political? Are we enveloped in a society where it is expected that if you have any leverage, you push your beliefs on other people?

    To quote a speech of Crichton:

    First, we need an environmental movement, and such a movement is not very effective if it is conducted as a religion. We know from history that religions tend to kill people, and environmentalism has already killed somewhere between 10-30 million people since the 1970s. It's not a good record.
    Mr. Crichton, you're great at plot twists and you also happen to be great at political spin. Please keep to the former so I can remain a fan of yours. I like your position on this topic but you do not end your commentary well:

    Fortunately, two congressmen want to make the full benefit of the decoded genome available to us all. Last Friday, Xavier Becerra, a Democrat of California, and Dave Weldon, a Republican of Florida, sponsored the Genomic Research and Accessibility Act, to ban the practice of patenting genes found in nature. Mr. Becerra has been careful to say the bill does not hamper invention, but rather promotes it. He's right. This bill will fuel innovation, and return our common genetic heritage to us. It deserves our support.
    How will this bill fuel innovation? You wrote in Jurassic Park that it is better to invest billions in a dinosaur theme park than to find a cure for AIDS. Why? Because you can't charge people anything you want for a cure for AIDS, that would be immoral. What if it was acceptable to charge a million dollars for a single dose of a cure? The benefit of medical research would sky rocket and I'm sure more money would go into development. My question is simply, how do you ensure that forcing parts of research to be open to the public won't prevent companies from dumping money into that research? If a company discovers and goes through the painstaking research of finding "natural genes" then why shouldn't they be able to profit off that?

    I agree with you, but if you're going to comment on this, you must be prepared for the counter argument. "He's right." Simply won't suffice for me.
    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sure more money would go into development.

      Or into advertisements of people screaming randomly assembled letters off of mountaintops while sitting in bathtubs. Your call.

      My question is simply, how do you ensure that forcing parts of research to be open to the public won't prevent companies from dumping money into that research?

      Because it didn't? As it was pointed out, countries where these things aren't patentable already have better genetic tests than the US does. This isn't some thought experiment, the proof is in the other parts of the world that have been making this work for years. The only reason that it would fail here would be petulant megacorps refusing to do any work at all if the government won't prevent people from competing against them, and once they've burned through their billions paying their executive officers while stalling development and taking out full page newspaper ads crying about how people are going to die because of that decision, they'd be replaced by companies that were willing to work despite competition.

    2. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Luyseyal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is it that authors, singers, actors, etc feel the need to get political? Are we enveloped in a society where it is expected that if you have any leverage, you push your beliefs on other people?

      Why does anyone? Why do Slashdot posters get all political trying to push their ideologies on other people?

      People are, by nature, "political animals" as Aristotle suggested 2300 years ago.
      -l

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    3. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Monkeyboy4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Have you read Card? Or Hienlien? OR Crichton closely?

      Almost all science fiction is really political and sociological story telling with a veneer of gadgets and aliens that allow the author to use well-crafted hyperbolic reality to avoid the ham-fisted arguments in a political text.

      Not saying you aren't right in being annoyed by the politicking of Scifi authors, but it is a pretty long-standing tradition

    4. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by d3ac0n · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Have you actually read the transcripts of his speeches or his books relating to Science? Chrichton wasn't atacking Science with Politics, he was attacking the Politics that has entered Science! Chrichton himself argues for a more pure scientific approach! Here is a relevant quote from Mr. Chrichton:

      Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results.


      You can find more quotes from him (including audio, when appropriate) Here: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton

      Chrichton's main point is one I have also argued: Environmental science has been invaded by politicians and people with a specific political agenda to push, and that has colored and damaged almost all scientific study in that field since then. It as gotten so bad that "consensus" (something antithetical to the scientific method) is now being pushed as a reason why we should all believe that man and man alone is responsible for Global warming!

      This is not science, it is politics. I, like Chrichton, am not interested in someone's political agenda when science is involved. I was science for science' sake. I realize that it isn't always possible, but it is something we should strive for. Chrichton merely pushes this, and as "nerds" we should be behind him on this point.
      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    5. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by ravenshrike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Environmentalism got DDT banned. DDT is the best defense against Malaria. Malaria kills how many people a year again? Just because you don't like the truth of the matter is no reason to ignore it. Well, unless you like being petty.

    6. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Scientific concensus does not mean truth. However, when a layperson who doesn't understand the issue needs to, it is by far their best bet to go with where the overwhelming majority of scientific viewpoints lie. Otherwise, you'd have us invest in alchemy companies instead of gold mines to produce gold. You'd have us try to get a spacecraft to Mars with magic instead of physics. You'd have the people looking through telescopes funded only to get accurate positions for astrologers. You'd replace hospital neurology departments with phrenology departments. You'd dump clinical trials for shamanism. The big-bang would be written out of scientific texts in favor of an Earth-centric universe. You might fund research on ways to better "dephlogisticate" air, or to delve deeper into the properties of the luminiferous ether.

      If you're not well studied in the field, you're much less qualified to make judgements on the subject than those who are. And if the overwhelming majority of those who are tell you X, your best bet is definitely to go with X. Yes, there are always exceptions, where a very minority view turns out to be right after all. But those are exceptions. It's a bad bet to wager on them.

      --
      When someone says "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done," give him a lollipop.
    7. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It as gotten so bad that "consensus" (something antithetical to the scientific method) is now being pushed as a reason why we should all believe that man and man alone is responsible for Global warming!

      This problem is inherent in the study of climate, because the scientific method is only really useful if you can devise an experiment to test your hypothesis. Obviously we can't actually do that with the climate because if the experiment fails we're all dead (and we don't have a spare planet to act as the control anyway), so relying on educated guesses by the scientists (in the form of simulations, statistical studies, etc.) is all we can do. Now, since most scientists (i.e., the ones actually qualified to study climate who aren't being paid by the oil industry) have come to a consensus, we really have no choice but to believe them.

      Besides, hasn't even the oil industry admitted that it believes climate change is occurring (and is only arguing about what caused it)? If that's the case, then what we all need to realize is that it doesn't matter why it's happening, because it would suck for humanity regardless.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Environmentalists are happy to kill people by banning everything from pesticides to genetically engineered foods, no matter how badly starving countries need these things.

      Bullshit. The world has plenty of food (even if it were grown organically), it's just not distributed correctly.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    9. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Evilest+Doer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Environmentalists are happy to kill people by banning everything from pesticides to genetically engineered foods, no matter how badly starving countries need these things.
      DDT and other pesticides have these little side effects like birth defects and increased cancer rates. The food shortages in most countries are based on political realities, such as horribly corrupt governments, and not on farming procedures. Plus, in the US, the government gives subsidies to farmers to *not* produce food since there would be too much on the market, thus driving down prices. Chemical pesticides and fertilizers, along with things like Bovine Growth Hormone, simply aren't needed for there to be an adequate food supply. A little good planning would go a lot farther than poisoning the Earth for the sake of the profits of corporations like Monsanto and Dow.

      Environmentalism is an urban religion for liberal atheists, and so they justify their behavior as "right" or "just" and attack you as a heretic if you step outside the established biblical doctrine.
      Now, really, you just sound like a fundie who is projecting onto others. It's the old "but they're just as crazy as we are, really!" gambit. Has it not occurred to you that maybe some people see what is so obviously going on with the environment and want to do something about it? Plus, all those poor starving people you pretend to care about won't be able to survive at all if the oceans are depleted, the water, air and soil are poisoned, and toxic chemicals are permeated throughout the entire food chain. Dealing with the political realities of the places with lots of starving people is how to solve most of the food shortage problem. Letting Monsanto get rich selling seeds for infertile plants is not.


      Finally, I'm not an atheist and I'm not particularly urban (though I unfortunately live in a crowded city for the time being). In case you hadn't noticed, a lot of religious groups are getting into environmentalism. Actually, this has been going on for quite a long time, especially with deeply religious individuals in various environmental groups, but this sort of thing gets next to no coverage in the media. Nutballs like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are considered the "Christians" even though they are nothing more than fringe lunatics who think they have a direct line to God.

      --
      I feel like death on a soda cracker.
    10. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Luyseyal · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly. And as a man of the polis, you share your ideas, opinions, etc. I mean, why else would this aphorism exist: "Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one."

      -l

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    11. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by geekoid · · Score: 2

      "Environmentalism is an urban religion for liberal atheists, "

      While not the most ignorant statement ever on /.

      I live in Oregon, very liberal, very pro enviroment. Most enviromentalist I talk to want genetically enginneered food tested, and I have yet to hear a reasonable argument against this.

      I haven't even heard Norman Borlaug, who I admire, present a good arguement against testing.

      Just because breading wheat with wheat has no side effects, but when you bread wheat dna with frod DNA, i think it would be prudent to test it, don't you?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by d3ac0n · · Score: 5, Informative

      Scientific concensus does not mean truth. However, when a layperson who doesn't understand the issue needs to, it is by far their best bet to go with where the overwhelming majority of scientific viewpoints lie.


      Two issues with this, and the rest of your post, actually.

      One: Michael Chrichton is not exactly a lay person. He is a certified MD, and a medical scientist. He does not currently practice, but he IS a scientist, and more than capable of studying the data on his own and coming up with a trustworthy conclusion, or to make comments on what he perceives as misconduct in the scientific community.

      Two: You are jumping to some pretty ridiculous conclusions about what I would have our society become. As I stated, consensus in the scientific community is bad, especially when not all the data is there. Again, Science must be independently verifiable. Using magic to travel to Mars is not independently verifiable. Nor are ANY of the other ludicrous statements you make. I clearly stated this in my post above. Apparently it's much more fun to troll by making baseless accusations than actually READING WHAT I WROTE.

      Currently, the concept of "Solely Man-Made Global Warming" is not independently verifiable! The entire discussion smacks of politics, and that's what's got a bee in Mr. Chrichton's bonnet. This is NOT an outrageous request to make. We simply want All the data available, and have it put to a totally open, and independently verifiable test. Are you aware that Michael Mann, the scientist that came up with the famous "Hockey Stick" graph, has YET to release his data and methods for peer review? What kind of science is that? No review? Community consensus without discussion? THIS IS NOT SCIENCE, IT IS POLITICS. Clear and simple.

      All I and Mr. Chrichton want is clean science. No consensus, no politics. Capice?
      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    13. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's right, the environmentalists, who insist on interfering with the most efficient and effective distribution method possible: the free market.

      Okay, we'll blame people who insist on interfering with the free market. So that would also include the corn lobby, the pesticide lobby, charities, people who want the U.S. to provide any sort of foreign aid, militant organizations and other assorted hoodlums in those impoverished countries, the U.N., the concept of government itself, etc.

      Happy now?

      And organic agriculture can produce plenty of food, sure, if you're willing to settle for cutting down more rainforest to compensate for the lowered crop yields.

      First of all, you're going to have to cite a source on that before I believe you. Second, the point I was trying to make was that the world produces enough food even with lower yields, but it doesn't get to the people who need it because of gluttony, waste and politics.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    14. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by danpsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is it that authors, singers, actors, etc feel the need to get political? Are we enveloped in a society where it is expected that if you have any leverage, you push your beliefs on other people?
      Why does anyone? Why do Slashdot posters get all political trying to push their ideologies on other people? People are, by nature, "political animals" as Aristotle suggested 2300 years ago. -l

      Not only that, but in my opinion politics were never designed to be a specialized field full of aristocrats. Politics, is, by its very nature the business of the people in a democracy. The press gives these people the magnitude they use in expressing their views, don't blame them for having one. Everyone earns their right to an opinion by being a citizen of this nation. If you don't like that, maybe you should try a communist country where the only people who get to have political views are those that are authorized to have them.

      I'm so sick of the "what do they know?" argument. What does anyone know? Anyone who follows the news knows that politicians hardly know the subject matter of the bills they vote on and they are the ones that are voting. If a celebrity can come on record with a lot of media attention and shine light onto a subject such as this one, which is, honestly, worthy of attention, and garner popular support, perhaps the politicians responsible for addressing these issues will take a second look at them before throwing them in the circular file.

      Politicians often don't even read the bills they vote on. Just because someone isn't a full-time politician doesn't mean he knows nothing. In fact, it's probably the opposite.

      --
      Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
    15. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by mrseth · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Currently, the concept of "Solely Man-Made Global Warming" is not independently verifiable! The entire discussion smacks of politics, and that's what's got a bee in Mr. Chrichton's bonnet. This is NOT an outrageous request to make. We simply want All the data available, and have it put to a totally open, and independently verifiable test. Are you aware that Michael Mann, the scientist that came up with the famous "Hockey Stick" graph, has YET to release his data and methods for peer review? What kind of science is that? No review? Community consensus without discussion? THIS IS NOT SCIENCE, IT IS POLITICS. Clear and simple.

      ...not to mention wrong:

      http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=11

    16. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by ErikTheRed · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Kinda surprised you wrote this, because overall I consider you to be one of Slashdot's better commentators.

      Scientific concensus does not mean truth. However, when a layperson who doesn't understand the issue needs to, it is by far their best bet to go with where the overwhelming majority of scientific viewpoints lie.
      Yeah, that worked out so well for the flat-earth types. The problem is that human beings have difficulty with uncertainty. It's 2007 and we want our answers, dammit! We want to know The Truth (whether or not we can handle The Truth is another issue). People would rather know The World Is Going To End than have to wonder about it (check any history book and most religions for that matter). The problem is that we don't have all of the answers. Some we won't know for a few years, some we won't know in our lifetimes, and some we may not know ever. The problem is that in order to fulfill popular demand, Big Science is marketing things like consensus (not to mention some pretty half-baked research) as The Truth. And if The "Truth" happens to coincide with certain political interests... you generate some pretty impressive hot air (rimshot, please). Most of Science has sold out, and to every side of every debate. It's almost impossible to know who to trust ... except when you go back to the good old Scientific Method and demand full disclosure and repeatable results.

      I don't know if the Global Warming crowd is right. The problem is that they don't have The Truth yet (verifiable, repeatable experiments that generate verifiable predictions), and they're not only screaming at the top of their lungs that they do, they're visciously attacking anyone who disagrees with them. And that, my friend, is where they cross over from being the heirs of the Age of Enlightenment to the heirs of The Spanish Inquisition. The main difference being that they generally draw the line at character assasination these days.

      The bottom line is that people need to learn to be ok with not knowing what we don't know. We need to be open to possibilities without the need to draw unwarranted conclusions - basically maintain the classical "liberal" mindset (before the word "liberal" became tainted with politics). We needs to discourage other from the siren song of clinging to certainties that might not be real. And we need to be respectful to those who have the strength to disagree with the status quo and strike out in new directions.
      --

      Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    17. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by aggiefalcon01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You seem to have forgotten something in this discussion over science & politics.

      Global warming is neither!!! Global Warming is a religion: it is taken on faith, it has its own commandments, it has its judgement day, and its savior (heaven help us) in the personage of ... well, Gore, and every other idiot celebrity who is simultaneously NOT a scientist, and yet an expert on Global Warming.

      And you're not allowed to attack religions ... so attacking Global Warming goes right out the window. Which is great news for socialists, they've never been fans of open, honest, intelligent debate.

      Global Warming is a religion. As soon as you realize this, it all makes much more sense. Kinda.

      --
      Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
    18. Re:I wish that he would keep his mouth shut by Rakishi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One: Michael Chrichton is not exactly a lay person. He is a certified MD, and a medical scientist. He does not currently practice, but he IS a scientist, and more than capable of studying the data on his own and coming up with a trustworthy conclusion, or to make comments on what he perceives as misconduct in the scientific community. ...being a scientists is worth about as much as shit unless the area is one you've studied. This is especially true for areas that are rapidly changing. For example a genetics biologist 15 years ago would be doing things a lot differently than one today, hell even microarray which are damn popular didn't exist then I believe. In complex topics "studying data" is worthless unless you're a genius and have months to devote to the issue to understand everything involved.

      And that not even including statistics or data analysis which most "scientists" are incompetent at unless it's a really cookie cutter method. That's why you have groups working together with a statistician being part of that group if the methods used aren't generic. I mean there are articles prominently published in famous journals (with millions of government money behind the studies) whose stats can be decimated by a first year stats master's student.

      As I stated, consensus in the scientific community is bad, especially when not all the data is there.

      Oh? Then christ, we need to get rid of all science or make a lot more people scientists as a lot of it has a consensus. I mean god forbid scientists believe in that evil evolution, I mean we need to lobotomize some so they stop believing in it.

      Again, Science must be independently verifiable.

      Yes, by other scientists in the field. A consensus means that given available data the vast majority of those scientists agree with the results. This usually involves multiple independent studies that arrive at the same conclusion and a lack of visible flaws in those studies. This may change with time and details usually are argued over however at any given time that's the best we have. There is always the potential that they're wrong but working under that assumption is idiotic as we'd never move forward, medicine would not have advanced in the past century at all with that sort of mindset (mostly we had no clue what we were doing).

      Currently, the concept of "Solely Man-Made Global Warming" is not independently verifiable!

      The existence of a consensus among scientists indicates that they agree and have verified it.

      We simply want All the data available, and have it put to a totally open, and independently verifiable test. Are you aware that Michael Mann, the scientist that came up with the famous "Hockey Stick" graph, has YET to release his data and methods for peer review?

      You apparently aren't a scientist as it's very common for the data to not be released. Only with the internet is that changing.

      What kind of science is that? No review? Community consensus without discussion? THIS IS NOT SCIENCE, IT IS POLITICS. Clear and simple.

      They review what is available, normally independent verification involves gathering NEW data or independently gathering the same sort of data then repeating the previous results. Using the same data is in many ways bad science as you're not supposed to assume the data is correct or unbiased

  12. from his book, "Next" by Red+Herring · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is largely based on his book "Next", a pretty darn good novel based on what can go wrong when bio-patenting is taken to an extreme. Good book.

    --
    #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
  13. Why should we listen to this guy, you ask. by techstar25 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article summary should have at least mentioned his M.D. Some background info on him from Wikipedia:
    He attended Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts as an undergraduate, graduating summa cum laude in 1964. Crichton was also initiated into the honors organization Phi Beta Kappa. He went on to become the Henry Russell Shaw Travelling Fellow, 1964-65 and Visiting Lecturer in Anthropology at Cambridge University, England, 1965. He graduated at Harvard Medical School, gaining an M.D. in 1969 and did post-doctoral fellowship study at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, La Jolla, California, in 1969-1970.

    1. Re:Why should we listen to this guy, you ask. by theripper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, but it would lend him a bit more credibility then if he were just some fiction writer.

  14. sadfase by zyl0x · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sadly, we're living in the kind of society where celebrities need to tell us these sorts of things are bad.

    --
    Blerg.
  15. Just to be clear on this... by R2.0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When Michael Crichton writes a novel on global warming, he's an ignorant sensationalist.

    When Michael Crichton writes an op-ed piece on gene patents, he's insightful and informed.

    Just checking.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    1. Re:Just to be clear on this... by Garse+Janacek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, I know, it's crazy. It's almost as if someone's opinions in disparate subjects might be of different legitimacy! This is just like those stupid professors when I was in school... when I wrote a thoroughly researched paper that presented a clear and accurate picture of something, I'd get a good grade -- but then when I wrote a poorly researched paper that ignored major sources and was mostly a personal diatribe, I'd get a bad grade!

      Let's have a little consistency, people.

      --

      I am the man with no sig!

    2. Re:Just to be clear on this... by cephyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, yes - Crichton has a medical degree background, so he is to be considered versed in subjects relating to that.

      He is not a climatologist.

      Why is that hard to understand? You'd trust a mechanic to talk about cars but if he says that vaccines don't work - why should you believe him?

      --
      Moo.
    3. Re:Just to be clear on this... by jvkjvk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, yes.

      It seems that someone's opinions on $foo may be ignorant and sensationalist while their opinions on $bar may be isightful and informed. Imagine that!

      Considering that he is also an M.D., one might expect that he has more knowledge of the medical world than he has of climate change. Also, did you read both pieces, or at least parts of the global warming piece? I know that this is slashdot, but could be a slight qualitative difference between:

      * Global warming has been manufactured by an environmentalist scientific cabal, thus is wrong

      and

      * Gene patents have demonstrably hurt average everyday people and are thus wrong.

      Just checking.

  16. challanges "science gone wrong" by peter303 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Science doesn't always go haywire like a Crichton novel. But I think its a useful exercise to image unintended side-effects.

  17. Sure. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Because the government here in the states has proven again and again that if you want funding to study global warming or evolution all you've got to do is step up with your hand out and they'll give you all the money you'll ever need.

    Crichton cherry picked the research for his little global warming stance, intentionally skewing wherever possible. That's pretty much the opposite of "thoughtful research".

    It's pretty much obvious to the whole world that things are getting warmer, and the vast majority of scientists from around the world are of the opinion that the change is related to human behavior. Even if you think they're wrong, you have got to take into account the fact that it's you against the whole fricking world, and while the world has been wrong before, that's the exception, not the rule.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  18. Black eye, my ear. by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The sad fact that he is slowly being ostrasized for his differing viewpoint a black eye on the science community.

    Yeah, yeah, and it's real black eye on the scientific community that they aren't giving creationists and flat earthers a fair shake either.

    Crichton's argument relied entirely on already disputed or disproven data, and furthermore he made wild, libelous accusations about the professional and ethical motives of climate scientists. Why exactly should anyone take seriously the arguments of a man who didn't do his research and calls you a member of a global conspiracy to hide "the truth?"

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:Black eye, my ear. by Valdrax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What? That they almost rely exclusively on stilted data generated by people with little formal training in the arena they're critiquing?

      Seeing as your point seems to be that we should treat all sides even handedly, even when one side repeatedly keeps going back to disproven theories and when that side frequently resorts to experiments with inadequate rigor, I'm glad to help you dig yourself deeper.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    2. Re:Black eye, my ear. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If you have evidence that the majority viewpoint is wrong, then provide it. Neither you nor crichton provided any such evidence to back up your beliefs. Note that a fictional account of environmental terrorists does not constitute proof.


      That lack of scientific evidence does indeed lump you in with the creationists and flat-earthers. I would GLADLY be proven wrong, and I would encourage you, if you do have evidence we have not seen, to provide it, because being wrong about this would be FANTASTIC.

  19. /. Help Needed... by LeDopore · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At the danger of being modded O/T, I'm going to post some of the research I did regarding medical patents in general.

    I'm against patents for medical technology, because the incentives to the drug companies barely match the desires of the patients. As I recently showed in my blog, only 14% of drug revenue goes towards R & D, half of this 14% is wasted by looking for new drugs which don't treat diseases better than old ones (but are patentable, hence profitable), and the remaining 7% funds research skewed towards untested, patentable treatments even if well-known drugs might do as good or better a job. We've set up incentives for drug companies to find patentable tech they can then market to us. I think we need an entirely new incentive system, and I think we can do it and still have a free-market-friendly environment for research companies.

    In this blog post, I outline a way for drug companies to get rewarded based on how much good their research does for humanity, using an Mprise-like system. Companies would get rewards proportional to how much better their treatment was shown to be over the current best treatment.

    I have some ideas on how to implement this system so that everybody wins (yes - everybody - don't forget the parable of the broken window), but I would love some input from /.ers to help refine the details. You're always good at spotting holes in arguments, and I'd love to find them to see if they can be plugged.

    Thanks!

    --
    Expected time to finish is 1 hour and 60 minutes.
  20. Genetic inventions can be patented. by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Informative

    You need to be more familiar with Supreme Court rulings:
    Diamond v. Chakrabarty, 1980

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  21. Climate change debate by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >Scientists should always question

    Have you ever seen a paper come back with comments from the referees?

    >The sad fact that he is slowly being ostrasized for his differing viewpoint a black eye on the science community

    Notice how the conclusions of climatologists are data-driven? Under a much more environmentalist US administration, they were still coming up with "we don't know yet but we know this is possible". With active hostility from funding sources, but with more field data, the state of the field now lets them say "very likely" there's human-caused climate change.

    We keep hearing that there's some kind of groupthink among climatologists. It would be a logical fallacy to point out that we keep hearing it because self-interested people are using endless repetition as a propaganda technique: it might still be true. But a single logical thought demolishes the idea:

    What kind of "groupthink" is it that tells you they don't know whether it will be 1.4 or 5.8 degrees C of increase, tells you the probability that they're wrong about human causation, and argues in public about why Greenland is melting faster than they had predicted?

  22. Re:If you agree with this article by fancycwabs · · Score: 2, Funny

    "If you disagree with this article, then you're a child molester."--M.C.

  23. Re:Sounds like a good test case by modemboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The US pharmaceutical industry is one of the strongest in the world, and perhaps that can be attributed to its enforcement of the intellectual property laws."

    I would attribute it to the strength of our academic research facilities. I'm no expert but I've seen many times drugs developed most of the way by publicly funded universities and then industry buys the rights for a pittance and does the clinical trials. Also having everyone in this country convinced there are magic pills that will solve all of their problems doesn't hurt profits... (witness their advertising)

  24. Chakrabarty case not relevant. by Hamhock · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think you're wrong in comparing the two. That case involves something that was manufactured, not discovered. Chakrabarty developed a new bacterium, capable of breaking down crude oil for use in oil spills. He didn't just discover it, he engineered it. There's a big difference.

    --
    Two Minus Three Equals Negative Fun -Troy McClure
  25. or... by Comboman · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Yeah, I know, it's crazy. It's almost as if someone's opinions in disparate subjects might be of different legitimacy!

    ...or (and this one will sound really crazy to politically polarized Americans) just maybe it's possible for people to have a combination of opinions that don't line up with the dogma of either the left or the right wing.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  26. "...environmentalism has killed 10-30 million" by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was curious about that claim, so I read the speech that's from. He doesn't back that figure up (imagine that!), but presumably he's referring to the 1972 ban on DDT and subsequent deaths from malaria in developing nations. This ignores the fact that DDT was only banned in the US and that it's efficacy had been diminishing since the 50's as mosquitoes became more resistant. Some good info here:
    http://info-pollution.com/ddtban.htm

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.