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Power Generating Spacesuits
Maggie McKee writes "Piezoelectric sensors could help power future space missions. Astronauts' spacesuits may one day be covered in motion-sensitive proteins that could generate power from the astronauts' movement, according to futuristic research being conducted by a new lab in Cambridge, Massachusetts, US. Such 'power skins' could also be used to coat future human bases on Mars, where they could produce energy from the Martian wind. Eventually, the biologically derived suits might even be able to heal themselves."
Seeing you can't get energy for free, and you can't even break even, wouldn't this just add to the resistance one would need to overcome to move?
What? The suits are powered by the astronauts' movement, and that energy is provided by food? It's more conserving energy than anything. If we could somehow train our astronauts not to play golf on missions, we could save billions on R&D.
Anyway, I just love the capitalisation of "Could" in mid-sentence.
...I'm sure all they want is more of their own personal energy dumped into flexing their suits...
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Astronauts' spacesuits may one day be covered in motion-sensitive proteins that could generate power from the astronauts' movement ... Such 'power skins' could also be used to coat future human bases on Mars, where they could produce energy from the Martian wind.
But what about producting power from the Astronauts' wind?
Wizard Needs Food, Badly
Astronauts covered in proteins! that sounds like it could be a new pay website!
The original generic sig.
This was a technology that appeared in KSR's Mars Trilogy . Wonder where he got it from? (It's not an unobvious idea -- we've had piezoelectric buzzers for many years, and running them in reverse can't be too crazy an idea.)
Protect your liberties. Donate to the ACLU
"...Could ...may ... could .... could ... could .... might...."
/. could get laid this year, and womankind may decide that brilliance could be a more important attribute than charisma. We could end up seeing a world that could be different than it is. This might happen anytime now.
Every geek on
The apocryphal story of NASA spending millions of dollars to invent a pressurized ball point pen that would work in zero gravity and USSR deciding to use a pencil comes to my mind.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Energy is neither created nor destroyed. How can someone seriously think this is free energy? An astronauts energy comes from somewhere so the chain is biomass->digest(chemical process)->kinetic->electricity? Reminds me of the old question "you are in space with a chicken, some grain and an egg. What should you do?" A: Eat the chicken before it eats the grain, then make a grain omlette. On the counter side of my rant, this may solve the problem of astronaut musculas atrophy by making every movement a bit harder.
"Question everything, including this!" - http://technoracle.blogspot.com/
I say, hook a few of these systems up to buildings in Japan.
All the flexing they'd do because of earthquakes you could dump some serious energy into the grid =O
</totally illogical thinking>
Allowing them to continue their pursuit of John Connor despite multiple shotgun hits.
Think we can apply this technology to condoms ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Wouldn't it make more sense to send up a female mudwrestler greased rather than covered in protein? Seems like more power would be generated and selling the videos could generate much needed cash.
The guy patented the molecule. The one we all have in our ears. And he patented it. Did I mention he's got the actual patent on it?
Sorry, got carried away a little. So, this guy, who actually patented the naturally occurring protein which generates electricity in response to vibration, and so presumably knows what he's talking about, has no earthly clue how this power could be utilized. What is the article about then, exactly? Is it to draw attention to an interesting peculiarity of some organic compound? That's nice. But why is it covered in bad CG depicting people and machinery in vaguely otherplanetary landscapes?
I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
So if I were wearing this stuff, would normal fidgeting during a 900 mile drive generate sufficient power to charge a taser? Just asking, no reason.
Surely an electricity generating material would be easy to sell to the keep-fit crowd, joggers could have their mp3 players charged by their tracksuit etc. - but you wouldn't see me dead in Apple iPod Shorts.
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
The amount of energy will come from the wearer. Which means more food and oxygen.
It's likely more efficient to simply have a small fuel cell.
That's the problem with many "new energy sources" they aren't really sources.
Sure this would give them a much needed work-out, but that is far better to do inside where there is better oxygen supply, waste heat/water processing etc.. Rather use an exercise bike driving a generator which is likely to be far more efficient.
Basically this sounds far more like a solution looking for a problem that anything really useful.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
...and I carry the power supply with me at all times. Time to generate some power....*ahhhhhhhh* *grin*
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
and how do you suppose to make a grain omlette in space?
The apocryphal story of NASA spending millions of dollars to invent a pressurized ball point pen that would work in zero gravity and USSR deciding to use a pencil comes to my mind.
The one that's a blatantly not true? I'm against space exploration for many reasons, but even I know this story is utter bullshit.
1)Fisher developed the space pen without a dime from NASA, and sold them to NASA at a reasonable price.
2)Both the US and USSR used pencils.
3)Both stopped using them because the dust/filings/broken tips floating around were bad for people and equipment.
Incidentally, I have a Fisher pen; it's the smallest one they make (I think), a two-piece unit where the cap flips around to make it a full-length pen. It's a great pocket pen; the ink seems to be quick-drying (left-handed people will appreciate this and know what I mean), not too pricey ($10 I think? Maybe $15?) small, always works, and with the cap off, it's a full-size writing implement and very sturdy when "assembled." Not like one of those cheesy telescoping jobbies that bend and are too thin to hold. An o-ring-like seal keeps the cap on firmly when stored and keeps the laundry detergent out (yes, proven more than once.)
It's quick to whip out (cough) and always works, unlike half the pens at cashiers which a)can't be found and b)barely work. It also garners the occasional impressed comment. My only beef is that the clip came off after a month or so in my pocket- would have been nice if they had spot-welded it on instead of just press-fitting it.
Please help metamoderate.
I like the new suffix. It means that scientists look at every possible source to find their energy. Waste management.
If this can be perfected, I can see an excellent future for protein energy harnessing/harvesting. Just on inspection, it seems like it could gather more and more at once than, say, steam. And without putting as much energy into it.
Is this something that may be practical in boats? Get not only trust but also electrical energy from sails? In addition is this something that could be used on the massive sails mentioned here on slashdot before as an addition to tankers to help cut down fuel use? If so this could be pretty freaking sweet when it advances.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
i think you posted in the wrong story...
There is a lot of complaining that this will make the suits harder to bend and a number of other non-sense.
The point is that a lot of energy is already wasted by normal movement. It goes into things like crushing your shirt sleeves, friction, sound etc.
You have to make the space suits out of something... it may as well be something that can recapture energy normally wasted in motion.
Some have brought up the notion that these types of devices use more energy to make than they can capture. If it costs more energy to make the suits than they can generate... well that is irrelevant. The energy would be expended on Earth, so the mission gains some energy efficiency for "free." This becomes a consideration only if the suit has to be manufactured during the mission... perhaps as a replacement.
Don't get me wrong... this is far from the primary way to get energy. Take the example from the article of using this to generate energy from the Martian wind. Instead we might use this "wind mill" technology. However, if you have wind buffeting a static structure, it makes some sense to capture some of that energy if (and that's a huge IF) you can do so just by changing the materials used on the exterior. It may make more sense to coat the windmills with this stuff, and build the shelters underground.
Don't post innacurate information
If you do, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
So they're investigating a protein for piezoelectric power generation. But where does the connection to space exploration come in? If you want to generate electricity, using humans is not your best option. You're better off combusting fuel to generate steam to power a turbine (and then recycling the steam). Humans require carbohydrates and oxygen to produce mechanical work with water and CO2 as byproducts. Combustion engines do the same thing, only much more efficiently.
Sounds like a bunch of researchers stretching to make their work more attractive (and worthy of government funding). Or maybe a bunch of reporters spinning some research to make their publication more attractive. "Power generating spacesuits"? More like "power sucking spacesuits".
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
FTA: "Peter Dallos of Northwestern University in Illinois, US, which patented the prestin molecule in 2003, says"
I wonder how enforcing that patent would go...
"Excuse me, you're currently infringing on a patent i own. Please either pay me for a license or hand over the offending protein.
I am not, get a job you well dressed mental patient
Ill just be taking them then!
OH GOD! MY EARS!
wouldn't using the little piezoelectric crystals used in microphones and certain watches to produce electricity from motion be a lot simpler then trying to figure out a way to get proteins from our ears to do the same job a lot less efficiently ? Sounds like a waste of research funds to me!
The CG's, the spaceships of which haven't been designed from what NASA publishes, go well in continuity with the theory that IntAct labs haven't actually designed even the basics of power pickups to the proteins. The article notes that as far as future application is concerned, it's going to be a challenge. I perceive that it'll be difficult, highly probable possible, to make something that's lightweight (environment for hair cells, which supply prestin protein, might way a lot with water), compactable (power pickups have to be ideal: stronger, though not necessarily better, harnesses add more weight), and convenient for use (something around a keyboard assembly's level of complexity:think of matching a keyboard's thin plastic circuit board to it's punched out holes, which hold it in place) along with their future goal of self assembling proteins.
Some people have already researched sophysticatedly a protective suit, which might be utilized so people won't die while they're pumping protein :)o
I have dry skin, and static electricity has always been a nasty problem, especially during winter time. I'd be happy if someone can come up with a suit which can use that source of energy to charge my batteries.
You don't need a fancy device for that. Just use a piece of foam. Turning useful kinetic energy into worthless heat is one of the simplest things anyone can do.
By far the best thing you can do to keep your feet warm though is make sure your shoes are appropriately sized. If you don't get enough circulation to the foot, it doesn't matter how well insulated your boot is, you're going to have chilly feet.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
maybe i don't understand or missed this bit, but how does prestin remain undamaged in the vaccum of space under the intensities of hot and cold, and unshielded by solar radiation or abrasion by the wind and ultra-fine dust? is it really practical, or just a 'We Could Do This' type thing?
What I wonder is how they got the chicken in the space suit! As for cooking the omelette you make a solar oven (yes this does exist...backpackers use them)
Type define:apocryphal and hit search. Unless you were suggesting it isn't strong enough word to illustrate your stance. In which case, "utter bullshit" definitely fits the bill.
No sig for you!!
Another clue that the article should not be taken seriously is the following quote: "Peter Dallos of Northwestern University in Illinois, US, which patented the prestin molecule in 2003, says prestin may be 10,000 times more efficient at generating power than the best manmade material." That makes no sense. Efficiencies for converting mechanical power to electricity can be quite high (e.g., greater than 80%). Even if one were talking about efficiencies on the order of only 20% (such as we see with photovoltaic cells), 10,000 times that would be 2000%. Even proponents of perpetual motion machines would probably regard as ludicrous the claim that you could get 20 times as much electrical energy out as mechanical energy put in. My guess is that the folks at IntAct Labs are trying to create a buzz with this nonsense because a stock offering for the outfit is in the offing. I would not touch it.
Mod parent up... it may be completely non-sensible and off topic, but damned if it isn't insightful!
well the chicken would easily fit inside the helmet. Connect it to an air tank and seal up the helmet. But I guess, if you are going to eat the chicken, why not just put it in a plastic bag. Its cold up there, so it won't go off, and you don't need to keep it alive..
You mean these? http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3804/moonenites 4te.jpg
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
unless you've broken the laws of energy conservation, "generate power from the astronauts' movement" will also mean "make it harder for astronauts to move"
Although this would inhibit an astronaught if it was used in his/her suit if would be great as a low-maintance power source on mars as unlike solar pannels the marsian dust would not effect power production.
In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
It's all the same..
Solar cells are directly comparable, as they absorb energy that would otherwise have heated the surface they would have struck, converting it into electricity.
Nuclear reactors free energy by breaking up atoms in a self-sustaining way and converting the heat to electricity through turbines, the latter process being directly comparable.
You're just converting one form of energy into another. Whether its original source is the food you eat or your corpse compressed to oil just doesn't matter. These convert some of the energy in your bending and shuffling of the material into a more useful form, rather than letting it dissipate.
It's like putting a little turbine in your waterpipe... Free energy!
and next we will have in-suit shields and a ship board AI named cortona...
- You're going to send food and oxygen to Mars. Cost, about $200,000 per pound.
- To feed and keep alive some astronauts. Efficiency, maybe 30%.
- Then you're going to harness their muscles. Efficiency, maybe 20%
- To flex little protein generators. Efficiency, maybe 10%
- To generate and store electricity. Efficiency, maybe 50%
So in the end, you're generating a teensy amount of electricity, let's estimate it:- Human power available, about
.2 HP, that's about 150 watts.
- After the protein generators, maybe 30 watts.
- Actually makes it into the battery, maybe 15 watts.
- Percentage of time 'naut moving in spacesuit, say 30% of time, 3 hrs/day, that's 1/24th, say one watt average.
So you're getting about one teeensy watt on the average, at a huge cost in food, oxygen, and muscle strain.Meanwhile a little solar panel can put out about 10 watts/ sq meter, no strain, no food, no oxygen needed. And no recurring $200K per pound fuel and onidixzer cost.
And don't suggest "hydroponic gardens and extracting oxygen from the rust".
Biological coating for structures on Mars?
Someone call Sheridan before they kill us all!
(Maybe too obscure...)
Can we stop with the manned probes already? Earth is the only place in the solar system that is either safe or comfortable for humans. Even Mars, the next runner-up, is a century of terraforming away from habitability -- and even then it will still be too cold, and too damn far away.
The future of space exploration is AI robotics.
Actually that's the future of Earth too. To my eye, nature's purpose in evolving us is to create the first generation of fully rational creatures. They'll be the first living things to be born without all the jungle baggage -- tribalism and religion foremost among them. And I'll bet they'll be born out of the space program.
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
Now the Matrix is going to be installing treadmills in my goo pod and forcing me to wear this crap.
according to futuristic research
What exactly is "futuristic research"? Are they working on a time-machine? Or perhaps theories are being composed to explain models we know will soon exist?
Yes, it does bother me. As does every article about researchers being called scientists. Let's reports the news, not opinions or bias.
Have you read my journal today?
I beleive people are investigating how to use ambient human muscle power to automatically charge cells and mp3s. There used to be self-charging watches using motion, though lcds last years on ordinary batteries.
... and if a significant amount of energy is to be generated it will have to come from additional force by the astronauts. Work = force times distance. Scavenging microscopic amounts of energy probably won't be noticeable; scavenging even rather small but nontrivial amounts of energy would get annoying fast.
The only way around this that I see is if they are trying to harness the "inflation force" in the suits -- current suits tend to want to inflate into fully-extended balloons, and it takes force to bend the joints (thereby reducing the pressurized volume of the suit a little bit) -- that requires the astronaut to fight the internal pressure of the suit. Relaxing one's arm outward again wastes energy that I suppose could be recovered...
But rather than waste effort trying to scavenge that mechanical energy (which tires out the astronauts and makes their motions clumsy and awkward), it would almost certainly be better to adopt constant-volume bellows joints in the spacesuits. Astronauts make lousy fuel cells -- the fuel for them (food) requires a lot more finicky care and packaging than other types of fuel cell, and they're not very energy-dense.
Gosh, what a dumb idea. Assume this works perfectly and the technology was free. You still would not want this in a space suit. Moving inside a space suit is hard work, the suit is pressurized and resists motion. Also every motion you make requires that you breath just a little more oxygen. Basically this idea is taking weight out of the battery and placing it in the oxygen tank. There is no free energy.
I notice this effect when scuba diving. If I can relax and slow my motions the air consumption rate is reduced but the slightest work load and up it goes.
This thing might work well if you wanted to generate electric power from ocean waves or other random natural movement.
People run piezo buzzers in reverse as contact microphones. Coincidently I'm about to wire some right now. You can google contact mics for more info, though the wiki article is a stub.
done
Most of these response posts are psuedo scientific, poorly thought out, and dead wrong. Proteins are so tiny that coating something with them would make an imperceptable difference to human movement. Think about it. It's like coating a suit with film of soap. But it's been scientifically proven that each protein does produce nano-watts from vibration. Vibration is ambient. It is air movement. So these proteins make power from vibration in the air, not a man moving his harm. Collection of ambient vibration is a well studied field--and Dallos says these proteins are better at it than materials we have today. Now is it worth it? That's a different question. This is a small amount of power. So, probably not unless you want to power a tiny senor or something. But would it make the astroanut work harder? No, not unless proteins have changed properties since the last time I checked.