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Blizzard Exposes Detailed WoW Character Data
Gavin Scott writes "Blizzard has introduced a new web site called the Armory which lets you get information on any World of Warcraft character, extracted from their live databases, in near real-time. This exposes a great deal of information that was not previously obtainable including profession choices, skill levels for all skills, and the character's complete talent specification and all faction reputation data, along with all gear currently equipped. The complete roster of any guild or arena team is also available. Some players are upset about this, such as arena PvP teams who now have all their gear and talent choices exposed to the world, or players with non-standard or less-popular talent choices who fear they will have difficulty getting into pickup groups now that people can instantly find out everything about them. Are these complaints fair? Blizzard claims to own all the data and the characters, but at what point does this data represent personal choices and information about their players which would be covered by their own privacy policy? In a virtual society, should people be able to present a view of themselves that differs from (virtual) reality, or should all details be exposed?"
I'm a WoW player, just back & very casual in my playstyle. Do I give a crap if anyone can see my Character's build/gear/etc? Not one bit.
:)
I can see where some of the hardcore types might want to conceal their information, but IMHO its not a true "Your rights" issue - they are not revealing any information about YOU, just your character.
The only "risk" here is if someone has some "secret" character build that kicks ass, its now exposed to the world - but on the same token, its not just about the build, but the player behind the keyboard.
So a long-winded post to say "No I don't give a crap"
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I don't play this game, but I imagine that it would put people at a significant disadvantage in many situations. Trolls could find weaker players and go kill them easily. Personal privacy aside, I think this is a really bad idea. Imagine a war game (computer, real, whatever) where you know your enemies weaknesses, and they know yours. And it is not fair to say that everybody has access to this information and is fair game, because many will not know how to access this or even care about it. Bad move.
This could make things like the WoW funeral massacre much more easy, and common. A group of assholes could easily pwn a group of noobs. Not fair, not cool in my eyes. I did download the trial after hearing a load of hype recently; Not my thing. Found it unentertaining, so I played Counter-strike instead for a bit with my real life friends over Ventrillo. That was much more fun.
I just took a look at my own character: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet .xml?r=Thunderhorn&n=Friedmud
I personally really like it. I've used similar services in the past (Allakhazam / Thottbot)... but they left a lot to be desired.
I often want to check what people in my group have both gear and talent wise, so I know what I'm supposed to be doing. For instance, I'm a full Prot spec warrior (as you can see on my page above)... so my main purpose in life is tanking and holding aggro... so I really need to know if that other warrior in my group is also full prot-spec and maybe has better gear/talents for holding aggro... 'cause then I can defer to him. Sure we could sit around and talk about it for a long time (which is what goes on now for the most part)... but it would be a lot simpler to just look him up and compare our stats....
Anyway... I think people that get overly worked up about this are just too damn serious about the game... it's just that, a GAME! Cool off and go kill something....
Friedmud
But like most corps, Blizzard forgot that people like options and they like to feel like they have rights.
This should have been opt-in. Instead, I don't think you can even opt out.
Sure, 90% of players won't care, but what about the high end gamers who develop a secret 2v2 PvP secret sauce?
Since they don't actually have real lives, their performance and uniqueness in WoW PvP means a lot to them!
Blizzard jeapardises this quite a lot without thinking too hard about the consequences.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
Priest: I'm Holy Spec'ed! :D
Raid LeadeR: We know you're not Holy spec'ed anymore... your heals are casting way too long, you're always out of mana.
Priest: Look at all my healing gear! I am holy spec'ed!
Raid Leader: We checked you out on Armory!
Priest: Really!? Those bastards. Blizzard is not respecting my privacy!
Raid Leader: Well, also the fact that you're in shadowform doesn't help your case.
[I sympathize with the priest nerfage this patch.]
Maybe now that they have this they can frickin' fix Inspect so you don't have to stay within 3cm of another player to look at their gear. (Inspect was "broken" several patches ago such that the window closed when the other player walked out of the [tiny] range allowed.)
None of this is private information at all. It's like publishing sports statistics for everything from school games to professional sportsfolks.
I found out about this today. First I thought this may be a privacy issue. After some browsing, also of my own characters, I don't think so. One thing is that even if all your details are exposed, most players of other classes cannot really judge what works well and what does not. Also I doubt people will invest the time to ckeck on everybody they are inviting into a group.
What I really like is the ability to get an overview over guilds and to get inspirations about skills and equipment by looking up people I know to play well.
All in all, I think this is an interesting addition.
BTW, it is fun to see how often names are used. Sadly, I don't have a single uniquely nameed character....
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I would like to see aggregate data, I do not really care about individuals. Knowing the percentages of people who play different classes, those classes preferred skills (and least preferred ones) is much more interesting than the choices a simple character makes. But then, I don't even play the game, so other people's opinions may vary.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
So if Blizzard is so proud of their "comprehensive and up-to-date database" of character and item info, are they going to stop giving people who've had their accounts hacked the total BS "we can't restore gear because we have no way of knowing what you were equipped with" excuse anymore?
Guild Wars has had "observer mode" up and running for a long time now. That lets you see not only the top guild's skill builds, but their strategy! You know how they act and react, and you learn *when* to use the skills they bring.
Yet, the top guilds remain the top guilds because they're just better at doing what they do than anyone else. So, top WoW PVP folks should probably just have more confidence in their own abilities ^_^
I like basketball!!1!
And wonder if they installed the tracking devices in my Amazon Warrior Queen when she was killed by the Morlocs? ...
... that might make sense ... or even if it showed your reputation ... but everything else?
...
Seriously, this not only violates the Fog of War principle - I can't Inspect someone to far away from me - it is ridiculous.
Now, if it was limited to your Guild
RPG means Role-Playing-Game not Ridiculous-Privacy-Giveaway
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Where this DOES have an effect in PvP is with Arena teams, as several others have already suggested. Even then, I don't think it's terribly disruptive. Armory or not, just by playing the game and through normal means of communication (forums, chat, etc.), players were going to find out what class and talent combinations are used by the best teams anyway. Now that's information available to everyone, and not just those who frequent the WoW message boards.
-- jchenx
Probably not. Which game recently had the political expose on game designers who were giving themselves and/or their social allies unfair game advantages? "Hacked accounts" are a convenient way of disguising those advantages similar to money laundering and it works both directions. It's also a source of profit like dropped Blackberrys or scratched CDs.
the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
You only have your gear and attributes exposed in WOW. Warcraft3 replays had real complaints. People could totally steal your build order and the creep order you did. They could essentially copy your game play by watching a replay and be almost as formidable as you. This made all the effective builds known, and there was very little creativity in that RTS.
God spoke to me.
2. The privacy policy covers stuff like name, age, date of birth, gender, home address, phone number, e-mail address, survey information, etc.
I don't see how any of that was disclosed.
What if I have a question or complaint?
If you have any questions or wish to file a complaint, please feel free to e-mail us at privacy@blizzard.com, call us at (949) 955-1382, or send a letter addressed to Blizzard Entertainment Privacy Policy, Attention: Privacy Policy Administrator, at 6060 Center Drive, 5th Floor, Los Angeles, California 90045.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Did anyone else notice that the page is *extremely* resource-intensive?
When I click the Ajax link to view a player's details, it takes about 20
seconds to just render the page -- not including download time (I'm on a P2-333).
That could explain why it seems to be less reliable than OSDN which is just serving text.
There also isn't a a simple "IWIN" button in PvP, despite what some forum posters think. Even if there is a certain combination of talents, spells, and classes that excel in PvP, you still have to be skilled enough to push all the buttons at the right time, have the reaction speed, etc.
-- jchenx
To put it briefly: this information is publicaly avalible - you can get this info in game without trying very hard.
...it really doesn't matter.
Why?
Talent specs:
If you watch them for more than 10 minutes in game, killing things, you easily deduce most of their talent choices - certain builds for certain classes grant certain abilities, other choices make the player use certain spells over other spells. Even if you are on opposing factions, it doesnt matter, you can still easily tell what their spec is.
Gear:
You can walk up to any player (on your faction) and inspect them and see their gear. Even if you can't inspect them for some reason (on pvp servers you can only go one faction per server) - a lot of gear has unique graphics. Those that don't
The only possible thing to complain about with knowing someone's gear is when you are in PVP and want to know what trinkets the opponent has. Ok, there is potential here: trinkets let you do certain stuff and if you are ready for that stuff, you might have a small adventage. Thing is, the data is not real time! It is possible to instantly switch trinkets (out of combat) and whatever info you just got is out of date! To make this point even less relevant/less impact, most trinkets have visual/combat log notification to everyone nearby when they are used!
Another point to consider: In the past (i am not sure if this still happens) there was a number of mods which upon the user inspecting another player, would suck that data and upload it to thottbot. I was quite surprised to find a few of my characters having character's gear profiles on that site - obviously someone insepcted me while running that mod.
So why is this such a huge issue?
People love to whine. Especially people who do nothing important/special whole day, maybe they are bored, they want to feel wronged, then they want to feel like they are doing something, then they want to feel vindicated. It doesnt matter how dumb it is, they just go for it..
Lets look at one of the coplaints from the summary: "they will have difficulty getting into pickup groups now that people can instantly find out everything about them"
This is probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard and i read the WoW general forums:( If you join a group that is super picky/elitist and your gear is crap/you are a newb, you will get booted with this information or without. If the group doesnt care you dont have the best gear or is not picky or can carry your weight or is not elitist, then this Armory thing will not matter one bit.
Quite often, yes, there are elitist groups/guilds/people playing when you approach them to group/quest/join/etc they will scrutinise you. They will ask for your spec and check your gear. With or without the Armory, if you do not meet their expectations, you will lose. I really don't see what the difference between having it or not having it makes.
If you have a non-standard talent build (you have no clue how to play) or non-standard (read:crap) gear you will get kicked out of the group as soon as it becomes apparent - and it will. If your gear is good enough and you are not a newb, this Armory will once again make no difference.
In reply to the article's closing: the question of "In a virtual society, should people be able to present a view of themselves that differs from (virtual) reality, or should all details be exposed?" is irrelevant, borderline sensationalist when their virtual details are virtually exposed to all other virtual people.
Virtually non story about virtual whiners/complainers virtually looking for virtually something to virtually do.
Go outside, get job, girlfriend/boyfriend, learn to code or paint or spear fish. Do something meaningful so that you don't jump on dumb whiner-wagon just to feel improtant/like you are acomplishing anything by puffing up your hairless chest about small stuff like this.
And no, don't talk about "slippery slopies" or "but what about government..." or "
I think what Blizzard realized is that privacy was gone anyway, thanks to a number of 3rd party sites that tracked much of the same data. And some of these places tracked a lot more information, some of which can be really used in a bad way. For example, there is a site that actually tracks your guild history (which ones you've been in, how long, etc.). So, if you're applying to a new guild, their leader could look you up at this site, and wonder, "Hmm, this guy has gone through X many guilds in Y months. That's not a good sign, so thumbs down to him!", even though you might have a legitimate reason for this.
... it's better to make it an official part of the game, and let basically everyone know where to find it.
So, that said, I think the data that Blizzard has decided to make public is rather benign in comparison, especially since much of it is data that you can already access anyway (inspecting gear, reading combat logs, etc.). Rather than give a small minority of folks an advantage, who happen to know the right websites to visit or mods to install
Additionally, there's a whole lot of people that want access to this information, and don't mind sharing out their own data. This is true especially for guilds. Why do you think these 3rd party sites and mods existed in the first place? So again, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
-- jchenx
My guess is that they are trying to stop people from creating in game utilities that hit Blizzard's site in the background to pull character data. However, I'm going to assume that making it Flash will merely slow them down a little.
I really, really hate the abuse of the word "hacked" in this context.
I remember back when I was doing the whole oper thing on a well-known IRC network. Every day, we'd get hundreds (sometimes thousands) of complaints from people complaining that their account with the network services had been "hacked". In every single case I ever encountered, it transpired that the individual in question had just fallen for an extremely simplistic con designed to get them to reveal their password. There's no element of "hacking" about it - it's just the exploitation of gullibility, stupidity, and the belief that it's possible to get something for nothing.
I don't play WoW very much (although I do have a semi-active account I log into occasionally, but until the end of last year (when I more or less went cold-turkey), I was a pretty hardcore Final Fantasy XI player. "Hacked" accounts were a perennial topic in FFXI and, once again, it was inevitably the account owner's incompetence that led to the account being lost or vandalised. I'd say that the cases I heard of could be broken down into three broad areas:
1) Keyloggers and malicious software - probably the closest to actual "hacking", these still relied on user greed and stupidity to steal accounts. Essentially, many of the third party programmes available for FFXI (all of which are banned under the TOS) actually contained keyloggers and the like which stole people's account passwords and reported them back to the author. Most of the malicious software in question would masquerade as cheats (eg. movement speed cheats), so frankly, people who lost their accounts this way got what they deserved.
2) Social engineering/phishing attacks - slightly less common - probably the rarest of the three categories - but by no means unknown. The old familiar tricks all applied here: masquerading on forums as admins, offering powerlevelling or gil to people who signed up on sites using their Playonline passwords, the usual rubbish. I dare say a couple of people were stung by this purely on the basis of being naive, but again, most of the people who fell for this did so out of greed.
3) Shared account passwords - in no way does this resemble "hacking". However, it was by far the most common means by which people would lose their accounts (or have them vandalised). I remember being in a linkshell once where a number of the senior members shared account passwords (although happily, I always opted out). When one of the leaders went bad, he did quite a bit of damage with the logins he had. In these cases, my sympathy was again limited - if you share your account password with somebody you just know online, you're asking for trouble. However, there were a few genuinely unfortunate cases, where people would have their accounts trashed after a real-life relationship with another player (often a girlfriend or boyfriend) went bad.
So in short, assuming the situation with WoW is anything like the one with FFXI and Blizzard don't actually have horribly insecure servers, nobody in WoW is actually getting their account "hacked".
I hear you.
I play a small MMO called Nexus TK -- 2D, nice community, and in-game bulletin boards. Every now and then I post on the boards attempting to clear this up, mostly because I feel the GMs and such who post to the board can do more harm than good with their suggestions.
Essentially, their suggestions are to be paranoid in every way imaginable. Have anti-virus software, firewalls, etc, and don't follow any links anyone gives you, or download any files, at all, the end. So, I suggest that anti-virus is a good idea, but not really necessary if you stay up-to-date, and do follow links, download files, etc, as long as you're not stupid about it (don't use Internet Explorer, don't download and run EXEs, etc)...
The message other members of the community post is "It's your fault if you get hacked." I have to correct them on that one; the game forces passwords to be 6-8 chars, and it seems to me that many passwords could be brute-forced or dictionary-attacked, and for all I know, they could be sniffed off the wire. So, I say "It's probably your fault, but then again, maybe someone hit you with a MITM attack, etc etc."
Because the funny thing is, they tell you not to download files, but you do have to download the game as one big EXE.
So, it would help if people had a good understanding of "hacking" and cracking. In fact, the game has a nice mechanism for educating people, which I do wish was updated every once in awhile -- when entering your guild hall (a place to get minor quests and spells, or choose a path), you get a window popup which tells you to take the Wisdom Test. If you do, it won't bug you for another two weeks. The Wisdom Test is sadly inaccurate and outdated, but it does help with some stupidity -- for instance, "Will buying a cable modem eliminate lag? True or false..."
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Many Rp'ers may have different gear for different events. The people at one event may not need to know about the gear at another event.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on