PS3 Finally Ready to Rumble?

An anonymous reader writes "Sony has finally settled its longstanding legal dispute over infringement of Immersion Corporation's force feedback patents, which reportedly led to Sony's decision to remove rumble technology from the PS3 controller, by agreeing to pay Immersion at least $150.3 million in damages and royalties. The agreement presumably will result in rumble and perhaps other of Immersion's force-feedback technologies being incorporated in future Sony controllers. Microsoft previously settled a similar lawsuit brought by Immersion, but Sony hung on tenaciously despite complaints about its controller products and disappointing PS3 sales." There's no guarantee that the tech will show up in the Sixaxis controller, of course. After all, rumble is a 'last-gen' feature.

Comments

wow

[mastershake_phd]

$150 million to make something vibrate. I wonder if they will go after cell-phones and beepers next.

Re:wow

[jimstapleton]

or certain recreational devices...

Wait, how long have those been around with that feature? Longer than patents for such things? Prior art maybe?

Re:wow

[joystickgenie]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do with the implementation of the rumble but that Nintendo is clear from this because of prior art.

The rumble pack for the Nintendo 64 and the one for the game boy both came out years before and were patented before the immersion vibration patent. So Nintendo is getting a free ride because they were actually there first and immersion doesn't want to start a feud over who actually owns the idea of rumble in games.

yay!

[sandmtyh]

Good to know sony is willing to take losses on the new console to make it "better"

They should have noticed

[Macthorpe]

Really, when Microsoft rolls over and just pays out the license fee for something, you should start thinking that you could be in the wrong.

Re:They should have noticed

[bWareiWare.co.uk]

Do you really think that Microsoft would think twice about paying a $50M licence just to establish a precedent were thier competitors had to pay $100M?

Re:They should have noticed

[jusdisgi]

Really, when Microsoft rolls over and just pays out the license fee for something, you should start thinking that you could be in the wrong.

You mean like when they paid SCO?

Re:Sony Teaches A Patent Extornionist A Lesson

[Rycross]

Except that Sony did cave and hand over millions in cash. 150 million.

Re:O Rly?

[hansamurai]

BIZ: A lot of gamers, including myself, enjoy the controller's motion sensing at times, but we still miss rumble. If gamers want it and are vocal enough, will Sony reintroduce the force feedback at some point?

PH: We have no plans to do so in the standard controller that ships with PlayStation 3. I believe that the Sixaxis controller offers game designers and developers far more opportunity for future innovation than rumble ever did. Now, rumble I think was the last generation feature; it's not the next-generation feature. I think motion sensitivity is. And we don't see the need to do that. Having said that, there will be specific game function controllers, potentially like steering wheels that do include vibration or feedback function--not from us but from third parties.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=1534 2&ncid=AOLGAM000500000000026

What did Mircosoft pay?

[GrayCalx]

Anyone know what Microsoft paid Immersion? I'd like to know if they saved anything by just owning up and paying for it. Or who knows maybe Sony got a deal by putting up a fight.

Re:What did Mircosoft pay?

[gEvil (beta)]

Or who knows maybe Sony got a deal by putting up a fight.

I don't think so. Sony was sued for $300 in "damages", which we know is always on the high end of things. They're settling for half of that. From the numbers in the article, it looks like they could have licensed the tech for about 50 million (or less), since they've already paid 30 million in compulsory license fees, plus another 20ish for licensing through 2009. Of course, this also isn't factoring in any court fees or their own lawyer costs.

Re:What did Mircosoft pay?

[Rycross]

Microsoft apparently paid 26 million.

Re:What did Mircosoft pay?

[gamer4Life]

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/myturn/?id=13861

Nintendo did it first.

And seriously, "game controllers and other devices to vibrate in response to certain events that happen during a game" - how hard is it to think of that? Cellphones, pagers and vibrators were already vibrating in response to certain events. It's a patent that didn't require much to think of, and should never have been awarded.

Where's Nintendo in this?

[pembo13]

I'm curious as to why the guys didn't go after Nintendo - not that I am want them to, just curious.

Re:Where's Nintendo in this?

[wynler]

Nintendo's rumble-pak technology was based on a different design to a patent that Nintendo holds.

Re:Jut need to So ignoring the loss on each Ps3, s

[fistfullast33l]

Was that an irish coffee?

Let's see....

[cdneng2]

So let's see, rumble technology is soooo last generation, but we've made an expensive agreement to offer it for anything new we've developed. We can force anyone who's rich enough to have bought a PS3 to buy new controllers to upgrade. (If they really want this ancient technology.)

PS3 owners should be really exploiting the motion sensitivity of the PS3 as this is sooo current generation. So current generation that our developers haven't made many games for it. (Although the Wii is obviously a gimmick.)

Our supply system is so good, that we have PS3s sitting on people's shelves. (Although I defy anyone of you from trying to find any PS3s!)

I feel so sorry for the SONY PR department. I honestly don't think the Sony Playstation development department knows what they're doing at all with the PS3 anymore. The PR department is running around trying cover up the Sony Product Development blunders with every step they take.

Re:Let's see....

[tzhuge]

I think that's backwards. Product development knows exactly what they're doing. They followed the guidelines provided marketing, legal and the executives provided to develop a product. It's not their fault that those guidelines weren't well thought out or that marketing could do a better job by just keeping their mouths shut.

1. Legal: "We haven't settled the lawsuit yet. No rumble. -> Dev: no rumble -> Marketing: "Oh it's so last gen... blah blah"
2. Executive: "Use Blu-Ray because we're invested in it." -> Dev: Blu-Ray -> Marketing: "Games are like so massive it blows your mind man! BLUUUU-RAY!"
3. Executive: "Use Cell... because ?" -> Dev: Cell -> Executive: "IT'S LIKE THE MATRIX, BUT REAL!"
4. Profit

Re:Let's see....

[MeanderingMind]

I think you're spot on.

While product developement isn't perfect, many of their problems come from ridiculous requirements from disconnected marketers and management. Kaz Hirai or Ken Kutaragi may have some technical know-how, but most of the people in the chain won't, or if they do it's likely out of date. As such, requirements not "mired" in reality will be given to the developers.

I'm pretty sure at some point the marketers angrily summmoned the hardware folks to a meeting, asking them how the hell they thought a system costing $900 to manufacture was satisfactory. The only answer to which was "Well, the only other options were all $1200 or more because of all the features you wanted".

Considering what they had to work with, the developers did a great job. However, this wasn't what PR wanted. PR wanted everything the PS3 is and more, and probably wanted it cheaper. As such, they haven't the faintest idea how to market it. They likely had brilliant and intricate strategies planned before reality hit them like a runaway train.

Sony's biggest problem isn't their console, its their PR. The PS3 isn't a bad system, though quite expensive. It's just a poorly marketed one, and it shocks me that Sony hasn't fired their PR staff yet.

Re:Let's see....

[tlhIngan]

PS3 owners should be really exploiting the motion sensitivity of the PS3 as this is sooo current generation. So current generation that our developers haven't made many games for it. (Although the Wii is obviously a gimmick.)

Having taken apart my PS3's controller to clean it, I'd have to disagree.

First of all - there's no way SIXAXIS was designed for manufacturing (when you build millions, you tend to do a hardware revision for manufacturability - save the assembly worker 5 minutes can be huge (can mean she builds another unit in say, 30 minutes), or find a way to save a penny or a dime... (which save you $10,000 or $100,000 per million units)). There are so many fiddly little pieces that are almost symmetrical that you really need a +10 agility boost just to put the thing together. There are also three circuitboards in it - mainboard, button flexi-board, and motion sensor board (take note - this is important). Sure you do it "next revision", but still.

Secondly, because the motion sensor board is on a separate PCB, it's connected via wires, covered in foam tape, and stuffed in a little alcove on the button chassis. The alcove wasn't designed to hold a circuit board - it's just a little square area. Which means the board is more likely than not to be skewed when its inserted into it. This skew alone makes it difficult to design really good motion sensing games because the accellerometer's axes are all aligned in a random orientation (the alcove doesn't provide any sort of orientation slots, either). Nintendo's Wiimote has the sensor soldered to the main PCB, so the only variance is how the pick'n'place machine puts parts down, and plastic tolerance, but it'll be fairly closely aligned. Sony's design can mean the sensor is oriented quite randomly, and that "up" is "down" to the sensor and what not (or more likely, "down-right" or "down-left"). Oddly enough, I'm sure the space on the main PCB occupied by the motion sensor's 4pin connector is larger than the sensor chip itself. I suspect that somewhere along the manufacturing line the SIXAXIS undergoes some high accellerations (which can destroy the tiny MEMS in the accellerometer if mounted improperly - usually even dropping the sensor on the floor can do it) - perhaps when the populating is done it's all tossed into a big container and the shock of the boards hitting the walls and other boards could damage a large number of them.

So without calibration, the motion sensor is fairly useless if the player has to figure out how to rotate the controller to get the motion it needs.

Fun trivia - the PlayStation logo is designed to light up - the button material below it is translucent and pokes down throught he button chassis to two pads on the main circuitboard - an LED is supposed to go there, but isn't populated. Wonder why that changed... it really would look nicer if it was lit up.

Re:Let's see....

[c4miles]

Orientation of the motion sensor circuit board is irrelevant. There is a constant 'acceleration' due to gravity that can be used as a baseline to zero the accelerometers.

Wait...

[Mongoose]

You like it when patent trolls win? Even if you don't like Sony -- at least they tried to avoid paying out to Immersion. This will be for PS2 controller compatibility more than anything else, so you can play your older games with rumble. You didn't see Sony shaking down Microsoft for making a vision based controller.

I guess trolls of a feather flock together. =)

Re:Wait...

[enharmonix]

But I don't see any actual products, just products by other companies that licensed their technology. I guess if they made a piece of hardware that Logitech just sticks in their joystick that would be one thing, but their website is pretty vague about what Immersion itself actually creates. Theres a lot of talk about licensing, and I did find a snippet about some middleware, but thats about it. I'm not saying that they don't have their own products, but their site doesn't seem to indicate whether or not they actually develop the hardware or technology, thus my original question. Going out on a limb here, but I don't think that in itself would necessarily qualify them patent trolls. The point of patents is specifically to protect inventors without investors - they have a good idea but are unable to develop it, or are unable to compete with bigger companies who could manufacture and sell the product for less. The whole point of patents is to allow inventors to license them to other people. What makes somebody a patent troll is when that's their business model - they don't develop anything, not even a prototype, they just buy up broad patents and attempt to extort royalties from anybody selling a similar product who happens to have deep pockets. In this case, Immersion really doesn't strike me as a patent troll - they sell a service, provide the equipment (whether or not they manufacture it themselves), developed SDKs, and their business model specifically seems to relate to force feedback solutions. Not a typical troll, if you ask me.

Re:Cool!

[Dogtanian]

But will it be worth $832? FYI the PS3 is £425 in the UK which is how I got to the above number. That likely includes VAT (i.e. 17.5% sales tax); ex. VAT it's £362.

If I'm right, listed U.S. prices don't normally include sales tax; and however much- if any- they have to pay is irrelevant, since Sony don't get any of that money (nor have any choice in whether to charge it or not).

Re:What did Microsoft pay?

[gamer4Life]

Sony at least tried to fight the ridiculous patent. I'd say Sony went to much further lengths than Microsoft did, hence Sony deserves more respect than Microsoft in this regard.