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The Pentagon Wants a 'TiVo' to Watch You
An anonymous reader writes "Danger Room, a Wired blog, today cites a study of future electronic snooping technologies from Reuters, written by the Pentagon's Defense Science Board. More than anything, it seems these outside advisers want a surveillance system that would put Big Brother to shame, and they're looking at the commercial sector to provide it. 'The ability to record terabyte and larger databases will provide an omnipresent knowledge of the present and the past that can be used to rewind battle space observations in TiVo-like fashion and to run recorded time backwards to help identify and locate even low-level enemy forces. For example, after a car bomb detonates, one would have the ability to play high-resolution data backward in time to follows the vehicle back to the source, and then use that knowledge to focus collection and gain additional information by organizing and searching through archived data.'"
In the United States of America, government TV watches YOU!
I'm sorry, I had to.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
You watch TiVos
Geographically, would it be in Soviet Russia, by any chance?
...Welcome our new Hooveristic overlords.
On a serious note, since when as an analytical, scientific approach worked in catching bad guys. It's like C-3PO consistently panicking about the odds of a disaster happening while everybody else ( who isn't a robot ) uses their common sense and rationality without panicking, to get them through.
We all know that people are unpredictable. You can't apply scientific rationale to people.
Just my two cents.
The only reason this doesn't scare me is that I'm supremely confident that government red tape, massive budgetary blow outs and vendor selection based purely on campaign contributions will never result in a workable system.
Does the mindset of whoever wrote this creep you out too? It isn't about being religeous - it's about being Gods themselves and making you worship them.
So it well seems it's intended for military deployment to combat assymetric (and urban) warfare. That is to say to enable the military to seek out the offending insurgent/combatant after a martial event. When your local constable gets interested in this technology then it'll be time for you to worry. In the meantime keep an eye on the developments, but don't be alarmed just yet.
It's a shame, if they had chosen ReplayTV instead, they could automatically skip commercials.
For example, after a car bomb detonates, one would have the ability to play high-resolution data backward in time to follows the vehicle back to the source
Until you realise the source is in a rural area 50 miles past the first camera to see it.
"Anti-terrorism" cameras will not stop suicide bombers, nor will they even deter them. They're completely and utterly useless for their stated purpose, which means the government probably has no intention of using them for their stated purpose.
The top priority needs to be setting up these systems inside the White House and the Pentagon. Then the next time they blunder into a quagmire like this, we can scan the databases and quickly find out exactly who needs to be held accountable. Then the problem can be rectified: "It looks like we're going to have to dock your paychecks for a total of $5.0e11."
See the word "battlespace" in the description - that's DoD-ese for "battleground." They're talking about being able to go back and rapidly review/search recordings from satellites and other sensors monitoring combat zones. It's a very good idea - if you could track a car back to a house, you can then see who went in a out, and so forth. You could backtrack a small boat coming out of a sheltered hiding spot, and so forth. It's about time someone thought of this, frankly.
This isn't domestic surveillance that they're talking about.
Jack Bauer and his pals at CTU have been Tivo'ing us for at least six seasons.
What is supposed to happen, actually? Are we going to have cameras follow every person, 24/7? That means someone to study that footage, right? And someone to study the footage of them studying the footage of you? And....on and on.
It is clear such clinical monitoring would break down under its own weight - speculative follow-thru says the most logical approach is to give every camera the autonomous ability to decide if something you've done warrants being flagged. Happen in practice? Not hardly.
Back track from the scene of a car bomb explosion? How many cameras are you using? One or several? If several, where are they located in relation to the car? Points of the compass? Sure, if you know to watch the car from the beginning, in which case there is no point in following the arrow of time back to the start, right?
While THX1138 hinted at this and other B'Brother style tactics, it also tried to show why such a system simply isn't feasible. There are just too many ways of being defined as outside the box in terms of what such a system could handle. All it takes is one exception, and the system is no longer worth the time it took to draw up the prototype.
The title of this article is totally off. This is nothing more than a way to analyze battlefield intel better. It's got nothing to do with any kind of surveillance programs or anything other than being able to better catagorize threats and analyze data after a conflict.
This gives a whole new meaning to 'knee jerk reaction'.
Yes, but think of the defense contractors that contribute heavily to both political parties! Won't someone think of the defense contractors?
Someones been watching too much 24. I dont believe the Uk even records every camera for much time.. Lets assume you use 350mb an hour to store your video, not the best but acceptable quality.
24 X 350 = 8400 = 8.4 GB a day
1000 cameras x 8.4 GB = 8.4 TB a day
Hmm, on second thought this seems possible.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
If i were trying to fight the Iraqi (or other) insurgency i sure as hell would want a tool like this.
W/o getting into a moralistic analysis, it's clear that while such monitoring is not a panacea, it would at least raise the bar for the insurgents, and increase their exposure to OPSEC fubars.
We do this already in a less-than-coordinated fashion in the US. The police regularly survey all the security camera tapes in the area of crimes, esp. murders, to try to create a gestalt of the crime scene area. Works pretty good is some cases, has bagged more than a couple of murderers and hit and run drivers.
Bon Chance.
That kind of asymmetric warfare is what citizens would do against a repressive state regime.
Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
What is supposed to happen, actually? Are we going to have cameras follow every person, 24/7? That means someone to study that footage, right? And someone to study the footage of them studying the footage of you? And....on and on.
They arent suggesting watching everyone. They want to record everything, then when something happens, rewind and then watch the given location. We obviously dont have the man power to watch everyone, but when computers can do it for us....
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
No, the citizens hate America. The government must protect America from its anti-American citizens.
Oh yeah? Well I don't see you posting your full details openly on the web either. Most don't, and it's certainly not because they're cowards.
I have a special on tin foil hats. Buy two and I'll throw in a free government conspiracy guide free. Buy four and you'll get the government conspiracy guide, AND the book "UFO's Exist" for the low, low price of $19.95 plus shipping and handling. In other news, Bush finally figured out what a pentagon was.
Yeah. Ask Neville Chamberlain about that one.
News flash: The United States could declare open season on Israel, withdraw from all Middle Eastern bases and force all American oil companies out of the Middle East, and the terrorists would not only not quit, they'd take it as a sign that their tactics were working and they'd redouble their efforts.
I'm no fan of Bush or his policies, but despite their idiocy, they aren't nearly as stupid as appeasement.
BTW, Ben Franklin was never president.
We could stop poisoning ourselves with floride, mercury, lead, aluminum and arsenic.
Flouride in water supplies is beneficial. The others aren't.
The entire pharmaceutical industry could decide to stop fucking everyone over and make the secrets of real whole health known. Simple cures for cancer, diabetics, and other diseases are well known to naturopaths.
Bullshit. Bull shit. Bovine excrement. Quackery. Pseudoscience. Fraud. Snake oil. No doctor on earth would hold back a cure for cancer or diabetes if such a thing existed. Bullshit artists preying on the terminally ill, peddling eye-of-newt potions and magical crystals, are the lowest form of life on the planet.
Software patents delenda est.
I dont know if you remember, but 9/11 happened BEFORE the Iraq war. The first WTC bombing happened around a time when Israel enjoyed much less support from the US than they do now (under Clinton). And I dont know how supporting Saudi Arabia is really encouraging terrorism (maybe because we allow the Saudis to turn a blind eye towards them? Perhaps someone could explain?). And yes, while Israel is often unjustified in their use of force, to break our alliance with them because of enemy actions is nothing short of cowardly. It would show weakness to the world, and it would give the terrorists motivation, determination, and recruits, as it would be seen as a victory by the terrorists. Appeasement would only encourage them (give a terrorist a cookie and...) Either way, 9/11 did not happen because of anything you have stated.
9/11 happened because Islamic fundamentalists hate free religion. They hate our culture. They hate our very existence. And they think by fighting us they get a free pass to Paradise. The only way to stop them is to either kill them all, or adopt Sharia as our constitution, profess our faith in Allah, and elect Osama bin Laden as Shiek of the United States. Well maybe not Osama, but honestly nothing short professing our belief in Allah would appease them.
Yes Iraq was a mistake. Yes we give way too much support for Israel. And yes, being a menace may increase the anti-American attitude and does add fuel to the fire. But this fire has been burning for 1000 years since the rise of Islam, jihads, crusades, etc etc. You are a fool to think "playing nice" with them is going to put it out.
After all is said and done...IMO the easy way out is to simply kill them all. Talking things over and learning to share with fundamentalists of any flavor sounds pretty damn hard to me.
What?! The magical crystal I bought for 300$ from my local fortuneteller wont actually stop my cancer???
She promised in the tarot reading that my cancer was in remission!!
Flouride in water supplies is beneficial. The others aren't.
Science is out on that one. Not to mention the real possibility of a person recieving too much flouride: flouridosis is a real condition that does nasty things to your teeth.
The first WTC bombing happened around a time when Israel enjoyed much less support from the US than they do now (under Clinton).
Uh Clinton was in office for one month when the wtc bombings happened. Try again.
9/11 happened because Islamic fundamentalists hate free religion. They hate our culture. They hate our very existence.
Hell I hate religion, American culture, and your very existence. The difference is, the U.S. supplied these Islamic fundamentalists with the training and weapons needed to kill American civilians and soldiers. As for killing them all, that isn't going to happen. Invading the Middle East has increased terrorism, not reduced it. Take one from George Washington: stay the fuck out of other countries, and stick to issues at home (my translation may be a bit rusty, but it carries the general message). Look at all the freedoms lost in the pursuit of a "war on terrorism." Islamic fundamentalists don't need to destroy the US, Christian fundamentalists are doing it for them.
IMO the easy way out is to simply kill them all. Talking things over and learning to share with fundamentalists of any flavor sounds pretty damn hard to me.
Sigh. Fine, you win. So when would you propose Cheney's public execution date be set? Bush's? I'll bring the franks
Bullshit artists preying on the terminally ill, peddling eye-of-newt potions and magical crystals, are the lowest form of life on the planet.
Oh yeah? I work in Marketing.
Your move, Trebek!
Triv
The military have been doing this (in a more limited fashion) for years. AFAIK it started with analogue VCRs being coupled to JSTARS radar output. With the VCR, they could track radar contacts (vehicles) over a longer period of time (hours).
For this sort of surveillance to be useful, you'd have to have 24/7 overhead coverage, either radar or optical. That's not something they're going to be able to sneak into a non-battlefield area (i.e. the US). Also, JSTARS coverage of the entire US would be prohibitively expensive.
I've been TiVoing Jack Bauer and his pals at CTU for six seasons!
It is not so much the doctors themselves I believe capable of this treachery, since doctors actually interact with the patients they'd be forcing to suffer, and few humans are capable of purposefully inflicting pain on a known victim for the sake of profit; rather, the pharmaceutical companies that have everything to gain from never-ending poor health.
When you never have to see the face of those you cause to suffer, it is easy to write off their suffering as unimportant.
We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
Flouride in water supplies is beneficial. The others aren't.
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?
Have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol?
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
You guys may laugh. That's because there was a disinfo effort to make this seem ridiculous.
http://fluoridealert.org/
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
...Who the hell do you think they attacked when they conquered the land? Anarchies typically don't produce walled cities. By your standards, the Greek city-states weren't self-governing either.
I think it's clear that if these guys had a nuclear weapon, they would use it. That fact alone makes them a vastly more dangerous threat than the muggers.
Now whether or not even the threat of a nuclear attack is worth changing our laws is a valid question. If we change them too much, if we give up too many freedoms, what do we really have that's worth defending? If we give up no freedoms at all and the terrorists can walk roughshod over us, then all our freedoms do us no good. If we take the wrong freedoms away then we pay the price but still get beat up.
It's a fine line to walk, and I both admire and pity those who take it upon themselves to try to make these hard calls. (I'm talking here about the people in power, not the slashdotters like you and me who are making armchair calls on it.)
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.