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The Pentagon Wants a 'TiVo' to Watch You

An anonymous reader writes "Danger Room, a Wired blog, today cites a study of future electronic snooping technologies from Reuters, written by the Pentagon's Defense Science Board. More than anything, it seems these outside advisers want a surveillance system that would put Big Brother to shame, and they're looking at the commercial sector to provide it. 'The ability to record terabyte and larger databases will provide an omnipresent knowledge of the present and the past that can be used to rewind battle space observations in TiVo-like fashion and to run recorded time backwards to help identify and locate even low-level enemy forces. For example, after a car bomb detonates, one would have the ability to play high-resolution data backward in time to follows the vehicle back to the source, and then use that knowledge to focus collection and gain additional information by organizing and searching through archived data.'"

29 of 256 comments (clear)

  1. In the United States of America... by drewzhrodague · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the United States of America, government TV watches YOU!

    I'm sorry, I had to.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    1. Re:In the United States of America... by Ankou · · Score: 5, Funny

      You know let em do it. It will be nekkid time all the time in my house if they put one in. Nothing is more of a deterant than a hairy fat guy eating cheese nekkid on the couch. Hey Uncle Sam, hope ya like what you see, wink!

    2. Re:In the United States of America... by coolgeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fascist America is the new Soviet Russia

      --

      cat /dev/null >sig
  2. In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You watch TiVos

  3. Where is this service provided? by ATAMAH · · Score: 3, Funny

    Geographically, would it be in Soviet Russia, by any chance?

  4. I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...Welcome our new Hooveristic overlords.

    On a serious note, since when as an analytical, scientific approach worked in catching bad guys. It's like C-3PO consistently panicking about the odds of a disaster happening while everybody else ( who isn't a robot ) uses their common sense and rationality without panicking, to get them through.

    We all know that people are unpredictable. You can't apply scientific rationale to people.

    Just my two cents.

    1. Re:I for one... by couchslug · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "For example, after a car bomb detonates, one would have the ability to play high-resolution data backward in time to follows the vehicle back to the source, and then use that knowledge to focus collection and gain additional information by organizing and searching through archived data."

      No more "Hooveristic" than a camera at the local Quickie Mart. An action is filmed, the data trail is followed backwards until something useful is found.

      "We all know that people are unpredictable. You can't apply scientific rationale to people."

      This is not about predicting them, it is about recording what is done in public space and using it to trace activities back to source.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  5. The only reason I'm not scared.. by Frogbert · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only reason this doesn't scare me is that I'm supremely confident that government red tape, massive budgetary blow outs and vendor selection based purely on campaign contributions will never result in a workable system.

    1. Re:The only reason I'm not scared.. by Kisil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're partly right - there will likely not be a workable system.

      Unfortunately, there will very likely be a system that partly works. Massive amounts of data will be collected, but processing will not be intelligent enough to translate this into real results in crime-fighting. Any data mining will result in many more false positives than actual results and waste government agents' time, which could otherwise be spent actually tracking down criminals (or terrorists.) Meanwhile, no thought will be given to privacy issues, resulting in tons of priviledged information being easily available to all the wrong people.

      In a nice worst-case scenario, security failures could allow outsiders to change the govenment's record of the past.

      I really do wish your remark were fully correct.

  6. Neoconned alert! by dbIII · · Score: 4, Interesting

    will provide an omnipresent knowledge of the present and the past

    Does the mindset of whoever wrote this creep you out too? It isn't about being religeous - it's about being Gods themselves and making you worship them.

  7. This is military procurement-turn down your alarms by Merkwurdigeliebe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So it well seems it's intended for military deployment to combat assymetric (and urban) warfare. That is to say to enable the military to seek out the offending insurgent/combatant after a martial event. When your local constable gets interested in this technology then it'll be time for you to worry. In the meantime keep an eye on the developments, but don't be alarmed just yet.

  8. A shame by Chairboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a shame, if they had chosen ReplayTV instead, they could automatically skip commercials.

  9. Pointless. by Ant+P. · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For example, after a car bomb detonates, one would have the ability to play high-resolution data backward in time to follows the vehicle back to the source
    Until you realise the source is in a rural area 50 miles past the first camera to see it.

    "Anti-terrorism" cameras will not stop suicide bombers, nor will they even deter them. They're completely and utterly useless for their stated purpose, which means the government probably has no intention of using them for their stated purpose.

    1. Re:Pointless. by srmalloy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How are you going to be able to run surveillance backward from a car bomb detonating to the origin point of the bombers -- or forward, following them to where they're hiding -- without a pervasive net of surveillance? And once you have the capacity to do this in a hostile environment, where you can assume that the opposing forces will place a priority on disabling the surveillance system, it's no stretch at all, given the track record of the Heimatsicherheitsdienst, to see the government deploying these systems in the US for our 'protection', where the populace would have much less incentive to disable surveillance (after all, if you don't have anything to hide, why would you object to someone watching you?) -- particularly since this link in TFA, where it's specifically stated "The primary application is for homeland security"; you might want to try reading more deeply than just a light scan of the first few paragraphs. The potential of this technology reminds me strongly of David Drake's dystopian story collection Lacey and His Friends, written back in the '70s.

  10. Excellent by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The top priority needs to be setting up these systems inside the White House and the Pentagon. Then the next time they blunder into a quagmire like this, we can scan the databases and quickly find out exactly who needs to be held accountable. Then the problem can be rectified: "It looks like we're going to have to dock your paychecks for a total of $5.0e11."

  11. headline is misleading; turn down the alarms by finlandia1869 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    See the word "battlespace" in the description - that's DoD-ese for "battleground." They're talking about being able to go back and rapidly review/search recordings from satellites and other sensors monitoring combat zones. It's a very good idea - if you could track a car back to a house, you can then see who went in a out, and so forth. You could backtrack a small boat coming out of a sheltered hiding spot, and so forth. It's about time someone thought of this, frankly.

    This isn't domestic surveillance that they're talking about.

    1. Re:headline is misleading; turn down the alarms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is to the Iraqis.

    2. Re:headline is misleading; turn down the alarms by Teddy+Beartuzzi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This isn't domestic surveillance that they're talking about.

      Yet.

      It takes time for military developments to work their way into the private sector.

  12. But.... by djupedal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What is supposed to happen, actually? Are we going to have cameras follow every person, 24/7? That means someone to study that footage, right? And someone to study the footage of them studying the footage of you? And....on and on.

    It is clear such clinical monitoring would break down under its own weight - speculative follow-thru says the most logical approach is to give every camera the autonomous ability to decide if something you've done warrants being flagged. Happen in practice? Not hardly.

    Back track from the scene of a car bomb explosion? How many cameras are you using? One or several? If several, where are they located in relation to the car? Points of the compass? Sure, if you know to watch the car from the beginning, in which case there is no point in following the arrow of time back to the start, right?

    While THX1138 hinted at this and other B'Brother style tactics, it also tried to show why such a system simply isn't feasible. There are just too many ways of being defined as outside the box in terms of what such a system could handle. All it takes is one exception, and the system is no longer worth the time it took to draw up the prototype.

  13. Um, sensationalism anyone? by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The title of this article is totally off. This is nothing more than a way to analyze battlefield intel better. It's got nothing to do with any kind of surveillance programs or anything other than being able to better catagorize threats and analyze data after a conflict.

    This gives a whole new meaning to 'knee jerk reaction'.

  14. Re:Wouldn't It Be Easier Just To... by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes, but think of the defense contractors that contribute heavily to both political parties! Won't someone think of the defense contractors?

  15. Re:This is military procurement-turn down your ala by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That kind of asymmetric warfare is what citizens would do against a repressive state regime.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  16. Re:And the FDA make food eat you! by daeg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, the citizens hate America. The government must protect America from its anti-American citizens.

  17. Tin Foil Hats for sale by pagerwho · · Score: 3, Funny

    I have a special on tin foil hats. Buy two and I'll throw in a free government conspiracy guide free. Buy four and you'll get the government conspiracy guide, AND the book "UFO's Exist" for the low, low price of $19.95 plus shipping and handling. In other news, Bush finally figured out what a pentagon was.

  18. Re:Wouldn't It Be Easier Just To... by Anomolous+Cowturd · · Score: 4, Informative

    We could stop poisoning ourselves with floride, mercury, lead, aluminum and arsenic.

    Flouride in water supplies is beneficial. The others aren't.

    The entire pharmaceutical industry could decide to stop fucking everyone over and make the secrets of real whole health known. Simple cures for cancer, diabetics, and other diseases are well known to naturopaths.

    Bullshit. Bull shit. Bovine excrement. Quackery. Pseudoscience. Fraud. Snake oil. No doctor on earth would hold back a cure for cancer or diabetes if such a thing existed. Bullshit artists preying on the terminally ill, peddling eye-of-newt potions and magical crystals, are the lowest form of life on the planet.

    --
    Software patents delenda est.
  19. Re:Wouldn't It Be Easier Just To... by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Funny

    What?! The magical crystal I bought for 300$ from my local fortuneteller wont actually stop my cancer???

    She promised in the tarot reading that my cancer was in remission!!

    --
  20. Re:Wouldn't It Be Easier Just To... by Triv · · Score: 3, Funny

    Bullshit artists preying on the terminally ill, peddling eye-of-newt potions and magical crystals, are the lowest form of life on the planet.


    Oh yeah? I work in Marketing.

    Your move, Trebek!


    Triv

  21. Not new by hcdejong · · Score: 3, Informative

    The military have been doing this (in a more limited fashion) for years. AFAIK it started with analogue VCRs being coupled to JSTARS radar output. With the VCR, they could track radar contacts (vehicles) over a longer period of time (hours).
    For this sort of surveillance to be useful, you'd have to have 24/7 overhead coverage, either radar or optical. That's not something they're going to be able to sneak into a non-battlefield area (i.e. the US). Also, JSTARS coverage of the entire US would be prohibitively expensive.

  22. Re:Wouldn't It Be Easier Just To... by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No doctor on earth would hold back a cure for cancer or diabetes if such a thing existed.
    It may say something about the state of my cynicism that I do not believe that to be true.

    It is not so much the doctors themselves I believe capable of this treachery, since doctors actually interact with the patients they'd be forcing to suffer, and few humans are capable of purposefully inflicting pain on a known victim for the sake of profit; rather, the pharmaceutical companies that have everything to gain from never-ending poor health.

    When you never have to see the face of those you cause to suffer, it is easy to write off their suffering as unimportant.
    --

    We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.