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An Evening With Sony Computer Entertainment
Thursday evening, senior Sony representatives such as Phil Harrison (President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios) and David Karraker (Head of SCEA's PR division) sat down with the posters from a bunch of websites, looking to ease relations between the company and their customers. Along with folks from The San Jose Mercury News, Joystiq, Kotaku, and MTV, we discussed a number of the issues raised in the comments here on Slashdot the day before yesterday. My goal in going to the event was to make sure that your concerns were heard. Over the last several months, I've heard many complaints leveled against Sony and their products, and I was hoping to bring back some answers. To be honest, I walked away not fully satisfied. Read on for answers to some of the criticisms you, the readers, have leveled against Sony in the last several months.
I took notes, but a lot of ground was covered, and not all of it was probably of interest. To give you a sense of context, we were all gathered around a large table in a hotel just off of Union Square. The event was held in the early evening, and lasted for approximately two hours. While everyone was certainly civil, there were a number of tough questions passed around. Here is what I felt was most important to you folks:
- A goodly amount of the discussion centered around Sony's newly announced Home project. The dangers of allowing uploadable content were raised, and we were assured that PSN parental controls will be fully in place within the game world. There will be a few quick button options to black out the screen (in case of offensive images) and to kill the audio (in case of offensive language). Public spaces will be moderated (and instanced, if you're curious), though they were a bit vague on just how those individuals would work economically. They're still working out the details.
- I was intrigued on Wednesday (as were a number of readers) by the possibility of indie games in the Arcade rooms they showed off. Phil Harrison responded by saying that it is something they're very interested in. Originally, all of the games were going to be done in Java but technical problems arose. The games are now done in C. If they can wrap up the tools in an easy package, they'd be very happy to release them and allow community-created games onto the service.
- Revenue for the service will be handled via object sales, advertising, and b2b elements in vendor areas. Those concerned about the 'amount of free' that you'll get as an intro Home user should know that they're hoping to offer a fair amount off the bat. 'Free' includes a basic apartment, access to the public spaces, a 'reasonable' number of avatar customization options, and a 'starter' set of furniture. Better views out your window will be purchasable, along with new apartments.
- Everyone from Sony in the room heavily resisted comparisons to Second Life, and other services. In Mr. Harrison's words "That would be heavily oversimplifying both Home and Second Life." Along the lines of hacking the service to allow Second Life-style sexual animations, the reps were fairly confident that they'd dodge that bullet. The service itself doesn't allow avatar touching, and doesn't currently have emotes that approximate those actions. They eventually hope to have 100% of online-connected users on the service. Currently, the number of online connected PS3's is somewhere around 500,000 in NA; roughly 50% of the North American consoles.
- Right now the download is around 450 megs, but that's going to probably shrink and grow over the course of development.
- The subject of Sony's arrogant public demeanor was broached, as well as the poor public relations message we've been getting in the last several months. The ThreeSpeech blog was broached, and the folks in the room actually clarified the purpose and reality behind the 'semi-official' blog. ThreeSpeech is actually a European entity, intended to be a public forum in which Sony-related matters can be discussed and information can be brought to the public's attention. The people behind ThreeSpeech are some of the most respected games journalists in the UK; it would be like if a US version of the site were staffed by the likes of CNN's Chris Morris, and man-of-many-talents Geoff Keighley. Because UK gamers know and trust the ThreeSpeech staff, there's an implicit understanding (in that country) that the message coming from the site is not 'tainted.' It was pointed out the lack of attribution to posts across the site is a barrier to acceptance, and they took that under advisement. For the most part, it seems, the bad reputation that ThreeSpeech here in the states seems to be a case of cultural misunderstanding. While I still don't like the term 'semi-official', I did feel as though the concept behind the site made a great deal more sense to me after this chat. Some of the other attendees were not as reassured.
- The element that I want to convey, which I took away from the discussion of Sony's arrogance, was that arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services. Thanks to the impersonal nature of quotes and the numerous (rightly decried) public relations gaffes they've suffered, their confidence can easily be seen as arrogance by third party information consumers. This is not to say the company on the whole is not arrogant; I just want to make it clear the people I was in the same room with Thursday night did not have the attitude of inherently arrogant individuals.
- This discussion went on to include the question of the PS3's pricetag, which was a subject never fully addressed to my satisfaction. There was some talk of the PS3 as a lifestyle, and the still-important question of why Blu-ray technology is necessary. Peripherals such as the EyeToy were mentioned as 'making the PS3 disappear from the equation', which given the cost of the system seemed to be a poor choice of words. Not much of substance resulted from the Sony 'side of the table' on this subject, and that attitude left me feeling a bit frustrated. The system's cost won't be changing for some time now, and there's apparently not much to talk about on that subject. This was the one element that I went into the session hoping to deal with directly, and unfortunately came away feeling let down.
- As a final note, it was stated directly that "There is no direct evidence that Blu-Ray has been hacked." Their attitude is that the encryption is strong, and that it will be a long time before it's cracked.
critisizms in the past months ? They are fucking up customers for over 3 years in star wars galaxies. Not only that, but they are fucking up entire star wars fan community as well. Ask them why.
Read radical news here
"Right now the download is around 450 megs, but that's going to probably shrink and grow over the course of development. "
That clears it up.
Is there actually a difference between arrogance, and being supremely confident when you have no reason to be?
Arrogant: "making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud"
Why yes, yes that does sound like practically everything we've heard from anyone influential at sony regarding, well, anything that's come out since the Playstation. Playstation 2 was supposed to be the god box, the supercomputer. It fell DRAMATICALLY short of the announced specifications. Playstation 3 is too cheap. PSP is a fantastic value and UMDs are highly desirable. Blah blah blah.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I don't care how confident those people are, PR folks have got to put at least a LITTLE thought into what they are saying and how it will be interpreted. Quotes like "$600 is too cheap!" don't sound remotely like a statement of confidence on paper.
If Sony does Not reduce their price within the next year they will be i nall sorts of trouble. All it takes is one $360 price drop and there is serious trouble. Most games are for both systems. So if the 350 reduces its price you can buy a 360 and a wii (with wii sports)and possibly a 360 game for the price of just the ps3. They really need to try to reduce the price. otheriwse they can be in a lot of trouble. Especially with the stellar line up of the 360 and the ps3 towards the second half of this year
Yes, at it is essentially built upon existing Sony MMORPG technology, but that is really just an implementation detail.
http://www.scedev.net/home/
Home is a platform for third party developers to build custom spaces to market and sell their games directly to gamers. Sony is providing all the tools you need to build your company's space out in the theme of whatever game or games you want. Just take existing art and use the Maya tools Sony provides. Existing game artwork should be easily used to deck out a space with streaming videos on the walls showing the game and things like being able to jump right into the demo from the game's space. Get custom stuff for you avatar or personal space. Pretty much anything you can think of you should be able to implement and are willing to use to the tools to generate.
When you compare Home to the online disaster that Nintendo has on their hands with the Wii, it should be clear why Sony has the largest amount of support from third party developers and why game developers view the Wii as a place to dump PS2 ports onto. Wii developers are struggling to get the information they need to put their games online and things like Wii integration in games is mostly a Nintendo title only thing right now.
If you are a third party developers Sony is sending you a message that your game or games are important and will get the full support on the Playstation/Home platform on the same level as first party titles. Whereas Nintendo...why risk a big budget title when the company makes it clear that third parties are second class citizens just like they have been on previous Nintendo consoles.
I wouldn't expect them to say otherwise. If they admitted that Blu-Ray was in any way flawed, the non-Sony content providers would be much slower to adopt the standard (if at all).
What do you mean subjects us to? I've heard of this site, but was never any way forced to see it.
So they tried a really lame advertising campaign, and it backfired. I don't get all the indignation and nerd-rage over it, like they violated your rights or something.
I don't get the anger or hostility in general. I think the PS3 is overpriced and kind of dumb, so I just dont buy one. Maybe one day I will, but I have no strong personal feelings towards it one way or another. It's just a consumer product, and not something I in any way need.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I bought a Wii and 360 premium at christmas, and it came out about 200 cheaper than the PS3. Got a 100 rebate on the 360, so it was 299+250 = 550, vs 700 for a PS3.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
So you are not a hardcore gamer. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact it is probably the more healthy way to be (and I say this, of course, as a gamer myself.)
But if you are among the 'core, then you have to understand that Sony is pure fucking evil. In fact, in the gaming market, they're significantly more evil than Nintendo. Whether you believe they're the primarily responsible party, they definitely committed grievous harm to sales of the Dreamcast by making an early announcement of bogus PS2 specs which they had to know were fraudulent, and their utter and complete arrogance around the PS3 and PSP frankly angers many of us.
I think most people are offended by people who are too big for their britches. No one is impressed by the big turd, no matter how big the bowl is.
There are of course numerous reasons to despise sony. The rootkit fiasco is near the top of the list. And Sony's inability to build a reliable optical drive, coupled with their minuscule warranties. And of course, my personal #1, their summoning satan all over Lik-Sang, which was bar none my favorite videogame addon crap store, and just about everyone else's too.
In general, Anger and hostility are counterproductive anyway, so it's good that you don't feel them. But not being able to understand them is a bit inexplicable to me.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Peripherals such as the EyeToy were mentioned as 'making the PS3 disappear from the equation'
Ummm... How does an overpriced and underutilized webcam accessory accomplish that? And what does that have to do with the price of the base system?
The system's cost won't be changing for some time now
Then neither will the sales figures.
They eventually hope to have 100% of online-connected users on the service
Sony, Microsoft, and even Nintendo need to understand something...
A lot, probably even the majority, of casual gamers, don't want the whole live/home/online "experience". We want to pop in a game and waste a few hours to unwind between getting home from work/school and having dinner.
I don't care if the world knows how much I rock (or suck) at the newest games. I don't want trinkets and scenery and furniture for a virtual apartment. I don't want to spend time doing anything beyond slaying dragons, drag-racing through densely populated urban areas, slappin' hos, and getting the little colored blocks lines up just right so they go "bleep" and vanish.
My style of gaming doesn't fit Sony's ideal revenue model. Too bad - Give me what I want, or you don't get any revenue from me.
arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services.
Trying to tell people what they want to buy doesn't count as confident. It counts as arrogance.
People generally have some sense of shame and humility, and in live meeting, few people will come off as truly arrogant. That doesn't make the company itself any less so.
I'll repeat myself - Give me what I want, or you don't get any revenue from me. If Sony responds to that by trying to explain to me why I really want what they have, you have arrogance, not confidence.
The fact that Sony is aware of their ongoing and continuing PR problems, and is actively and publically trying to address it is a good thing. The impression that I have had recently is of a bunch of ostriches with their heads buried in the sand, waving pom-poms and leading cheers about how great Sony is. However, having read the summary of the article, I don't see anything that would lend itself to the author's sense of "cautious optimism" in what was said in the meeting itself. There wasn't anything that struck me as new or showing that Sony is trying to move in a different and better direction. At this point, I know for myself, that it will take more than just a well packaged, rehashed version of the same message delivered by articulate and likeable messengers to give me any sense of optimism, cautious or otherwise, about where Sony is, and the direction that they are heading in.
Great math. You were off only 100 dollars when referring to Sony.
Good luck with those tax forms.
Ok, great, everyone say what you could buy for a price of a playstation 3. fallacious argument? Well, I could buy 2 Hondas and 2 Ford cars but that doesn't exactly mean that I got a better deal than buying one Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW. It's great to know that you could buy more with your money, but the quality isn't necessary reflected in your purchase. If you just give the systems an equal chance, you might realize they all are good in their own respect and all have their flaws. Play the games for all the systems and quitting crying, just cause you or your parents can't afford a Playstation 3 doesn't mean you should shun it or it's company.
Believe it or not, every console out there has games you speak of. Not Sony, Microsoft or Nintendos fault you don't look for them.
Just so happens the major fanbase want innovation - across the board. If you had played Xbox live its transparent whether the game is on or offline for the most part, there isn't much "doo daa"'ing around to get up and working. That is why they're loved & addored.
I tell you what, those games from 15 years ago polished & wrapped up on xbox live are well worth the 5-10 bucks to play again against live people over the internet.
Especially for those of us who work, get an hour to play a game here and there and enjoy playing against people we know who may or may not live in the same house.
Simple games are out there and have been for ages.
I really don't understand why people go on and on about the PS3's price.
It retails for $499 usd
Not $700, not $800, not whatever other made-up numbers people use (although yes, europe got screwed here as usual).
What do you get for that price?
$800 worth of hardware.
Hardware that no other console has. Hdmi, standard high capacity optical drive, user replaceable hard drive, in a package that has had essentially no manufacturing defects.
Yeah, its expensive, but it's a lot of machine for the money. If you don't want to pay for it, don't buy it, but stop acting like sony owes you a cheaper machine.
It's $599, after tax possibly $650. No way has it ever been $700.
..as threespeech doesn't seem to have any details?
There aren't exactly a large number of journos that'd be respected, so I guess the lack of identification is because they're all employed on one of Sony's various "Official" magazines?
I am a hardcore gamer though.
I own 8 full sized arcade machines, and two cocktail table based machines.
Short of the PS3, I own every console that's come out.
I have no desire to spend 60 bucks for a title because it's only a day old, and am much more likely to spend it on a stack of HuCards or maybe some Jaguar carts.
I own gaming systems I'm sure most self-styled "hardcore gamers" have never heard of. Do you know Apple made one? It was called the Pippin, and it was one of the most spectacular failures they've had. I own one.
I'm a hardcore gamer, or rather "videogame enthusiast" from way back, a true OG.
What I am not, is a hardcore consumer. I will avoid bad products, and really don't tie my personal feelings to them.
BTW Sega was in the dumpster already while they designed Dreamcast, you can't blame Sony for their failure. After Sega CD, 32X, and then Saturn, the hardcore gamers (me) realized Sega for what they were: a third rate company with third rate products. I bought a Dreamcast, on release day no less, but I knew it wouldn't succeed. The games weren't there, and it was obvious from Day 1 that they weren't coming. They repeated every mistake they made with Saturn. The megadrive/Genesis was their only success, and was a stroke of luck they got their foot in the door before the SNES was released.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
He's actually 121 dollars too low, if you take the UK launch price of 425 GBP ($821 at today's exchange rate).
I really think they have given up on Europe, they might as well not launch at all at that price, and the only game I was really looking forward to (Gran Turismo 5) is now a 2008 release BEFORE the huge wait for a PAL version.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Ummm no. Its a mmofps with experience points and unlockables.
It is lacking but its nothing like EQ.
Not before Sony. It's simple business sense - if you're making money and selling well, why do you need to drop your price? Why increase the loss you have on your console? I don't see any need for Microsoft to drop their price any time soon. Sony will move first, and it won't be for a while. I'd stop holding onto the hope that a price drop is coming if I were you.
This will probably come across as trollish, but this is a serious question - Zonk, what is your love for Sony / the PS3?
"Sony Keynote Offers Hope For PlayStation 3 Fans"
"Today was Sony's day to deliver: and in my opinion they did with flying colours."
"Finally, finally, there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel for the console."
"Note the first: There may finally be a great reason to buy a PlayStation."
"Your avatar is customizable, and extremely detailed. These is *not* Miis, these are better than Second Life quality digital characters."
"[Little Big Planet] is the reason to buy PlayStation 3." (bolded)
And from this op-ed:
"The element that I want to convey, which I took away from the discussion of Sony's arrogance, was that arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services."
"I came away from the meeting with a sense of cautious optimism."
"...it's possible the games arm of this particular megacorporation may have put its launch troubles in the rear-view mirror."
Maybe it's just my view of things, but everything *sounds* sugar-coated. Your (Sony) article(s) read more like hype than unbiased reporting.
It's fine if you're personally excited about what goes on, but I think in the interest of full disclosure, you need to say *why* you're so interested. I don't own a PS3; I have seen nothing in these recent articles to indicate, to me, that Sony has taken any steps to change their ways. And yet, you repeatedly say that this is the case.
Why? Because they're implementing a Sony-branded Second Life rip-off? Because of one good game? Because they put their best personal face forward during one meeting?
We've seen this exact pattern before, from a number of companies: nicely worded "promises". Pretty ideas. Friendly faces. The reality of it from Sony has been, consistently, lies and dashed hope. Does meeting these people face-to-face really make you want to forgive and forget so easily?
-lw
Mods: Disagreeing with me != my post Offtopic / Flamebait.
World without hate or war, invaded. Tragic?
It's $599, after tax possibly $650. No way has it ever been $700.
He means the UK price. The Japanese price (street retail) is about $450.
Basically, the EU, especially the UK, and then the US, are being ripped off.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Not sure how "550, vs 700 for a PS3" is "about 200 cheaper," either. I mean, I wouldn't ask for exact numbers down to the dollar (don't have a problem with "299+250 = 550," for example), but come on! At some point it stops being an estimate and starts becoming exaggeration.
"This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
It's interesting to see Sony has taken a turn towards positive marketing steps and desirable products- I only hope that the Playstation Home does not overly complicate the networking system for PS3, which lacks a good core network framework.
:(
Trust me, I have a PS3 devkit on my desk.
I can tell you that our company had a pretty morose outlook on the product, but we are still spending unbelievable amounts of time supporting the console for our future releases.
Coming in to GDC Sony is in a hard last place in a lot of ways, yet apparently at this talk it sounds like a huge amount of the time is spent on Home, that's a huge win. Avoiding talking about the Blu-ray, price and games for the most part and talking up their new Home is good. Let's forget that GDC is about developers rather then the press, and the fact that they have taken the first steps to turning GDC into the next E3.
But from the sound of this they really got away with something at GDC this year, and kudos for them, too bad most of us are already too jaded to turn back and most developers still find the system a hassle even with this new item. Overall though it sounds like a huge win for Sony at least this week.
Preface: I have 2x NES, SNES, N64, Cube; GBA, SP x2, DS Lite; Dreamcast; 2x PS2, 1 PS2/Slim (gave my PS1 away); 2x PSP; and a PS3. I will be getting a Wii as soon as Paper Mario hits, maybe sooner. I have a solid selection of the best games for all of the above platforms, and I've played (if not finished) just about every SNES and NES game worth playing. I grew up when Atari and Nintendo were big, and am as happy to play an 8-bit game as an HD next-gen game. If that's not "'core", or whatever you kids are calling it, then you're the one with the weaker definition.
That said, you have no clue if you think Sony is "evil". Nor is Nintendo "evil" anymore; whether this is by necessity or choice is irrelevant. The only thing that killed the Dreamcast was Sega's business prowess. Substandard manufacturing, terrible marketing, and making lots of bad choices along the way. I would much rather see them as the third competitor in the console race than Microsoft (because Microsoft is ongoingly evil), but that's not going to happen soon.
Care to share a link to a credible reference?
Care to explain how a company that delivered two massively successful consoles each with a huge library of excellent games is a "big turd"?
And how does Sony/BMG's contractor have anything to do with Sony Computer Entertainment, which is an entirely different---physical and businessological--- subsidiary?
If Lik-Sang failed because they couldn't sell modchips in the UK, then they had more issues than Sony.
Your anger and hatred is misplaced, and more related to a $499-599 pricetag than any real, tangible, logical reason.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
"The system's cost won't be changing for some time now, and there's apparently not much to talk about on that subject. This was the one element that I went into the session hoping to deal with directly, and unfortunately came away feeling let down."
What did you expect them to say? "Oh ok, we'll cut the price in half, just for you!"
Building a console has fixed costs, and they made choices that cost too much. End of story. Now they are stuck having to sell it at the price they do.
No?
So then why did you buy a Dreamcast?
That's funny. I have over 100 Dreamcast games. Given the console's short lifetime and the pallor of doom cast by SCE, that's not bad at all. And in fact I'd say a much higher percentage of them are worth playing as compared to, say, the first hundred playstation games.
Jesus, what is this, a troll? The mistakes they made with Saturn were thus: It was $100 too expensive, and it pissed off developers because it was hard to use, leading to comments like describing the Saturn as a "pile of chips on a board". In fact Sony is the company that made the latter mistake in the following generation, not Sega; the DC has one nice speedy PowerVR and a very approachable graphics system, and the PS2 has a very complex CPU and a very complex graphics system - they have slightly more power, if any at all, and they are FAR harder to use. Meanwhile, the Dreamcast was not unreasonably priced, not that the PS2 was.
Well, I'll agree with that part. But many of the best games ended up on the Genesis, that's something of a fact. And if you played sports games (not that I did) you needed a Genesis. That really helped them go. Not to mention that Sonic was truly impressive.
Sega made more than their share of mistakes. I don't want to argue that point; it's not defensible to say that they didn't either. But the Dreamcast was a brilliantly executed piece of hardware, and it didn't just die on its own.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Lik-Sang was sued because they sold PSPs in Europe, not mod-chips. The lawsuits (plural) absolutely were bullshit.
"they definitely committed grievous harm to sales of the Dreamcast by making an early announcement of bogus PS2 specs which they had to know were fraudulent
Care to share a link to a credible reference?"
He doesn't. It's a variation of the old Dreamcast "Sony killed my console with teh Hype" bullshit.
The Dreamcast was dead before it hit the shelves. I was working for one of the middle top ten console game publishers at the time the Dreamcast was announced and the president of the company made it clear that Sega and the Dreamcast were not going anywhere and weren't worth wasting development resources on. Any money spent on Dreamcast development was that much less spent on PS2 development. And Sony had just demonstrated to the console development world with the first Playstation that they were the company you wanted to be with and the platform for your games to be on. When millions of dollars are on the line you don't have the luxury of being a fanboy when it comes to platform choice.
In the end, no surprise, the console development community was right.
And the Dreamcast fanboys were wrong.
I was referring to the saying "big turd in a little bowl", which refers to someone who thinks they are better than they are. Which describes them nicely. However, the bowl is anything but little.
Also, they are definitely a bunch of shits. Just the way they treat their customers is wrong.
Entirely different? You actually believe that? These corporations are created so that the parent corporation can shield itself from harm. That is the beginning and the end of the story. A beneficial (to them) side effect is that very foolish people think they are actually different corporations. But they are not! It's all under the same umbrella, and your failure to hold Sony Corporate accountable for the actions of its subsidiaries underscores the foolishness of the consumer mindset. CONSUME, EARTHLING! CONSUME!
Lik-Sang failed because they couldn't afford to respond to dozens of lawsuits filed in various countries. But don't let the facts get in your way or anything. Incidentally, one of the major complaints Sony had against them was that they were selling consoles and games out-of-region. So basically, Lik-Sang had to die to protect Sony's right to engage in price fixing.
If you don't think that's bad, then I don't think we can even come to an agreement.
Look dude, I have a job. It's not amazingly high-paying but I could afford a PS3 if I liked. I just blew a couple hundred bucks on a car stereo when a fifty dollar unit would have let me listen to music, because it had a few extra features that I could live without. I'm not buying one even if they halve the price. You get me? You can talk all the ignorant shit you want, but you don't fucking know me, so don't presume to tell me what's on my mind.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Did you ask them why they hate their customers? That's what I really want to understand.
is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
1. no 20gig option (idiots)
2. 40% price difference outside japan to EU/AU/UK
3. Now with cost reductions, their profit margins are way higher.
4. I say it again 40%!!!!, shipping costs are TINY, $1200 for large containers. Its the same price to ship 10000 ps3s from X to USA, and X to AU
local taxes are nearly identical, USA 8-9% sales taxes, close to AU's 10% GST.
5. I had to buy something for $1300 (3 games inc) then i have a LONGER list of goodies to buy first before buying a ps3.
6. if it was $650, or $700 I might be tempted earlier for sure. Sony Australia doesnt need a larger profit margin because it cant sell TVs/AMPS/Phones.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I don't have time to find references for the other stuff you ask (and if you can't remember the fake polygon claims which both Sony and Microsoft released, you're not much of a gamer), but this is just plain wrong:
Not being able to sell modchips in the UK is not what killed Lik Sang. Lik Sang was not able to defend against multiple lawsuits started by Sony all over Europe and was thus forced to go out of business.
They never had a chance to defend themselves because Sony started so many lawsuits that they could not afford fighting them, even if they had a chance of winning. I don't care what you think, that's just plain evil.
"An Evening with Kevin Smith" was WAY funnier.
-Peter
As a consumer, I don't care about supply and demand. The PS3 isn't food or oil or water. It's a toy. I don't need it. I only care about one thing: Is this toy worth 600 bucks to me?
And it's definitely not. 300 bucks, maybe. More? Forget it.
If Sony really intends to price this based on demand, they'll end up pissing off both early adopters and latecomers. That would be a seriously bad move. And it's probably not what Sony is doing. This thing costs 600 bucks because Sony can't afford to lose even more money on it than they already do, not because of demand.
I agree. I think somebody at Microsoft even plain said it after Sony announced the PS3's price: "We don't need to cut the price. Sony just gave us a price cut."
Governments make money from payroll taxes, land taxes, landlords profits of rents through income taxes, taxes on shops sales profits.
Yet they still are GREEDY to take a cut of the final sale price, often MORE than the manufacturer's profit.
Most taxes are used to pay back govt debt, that NO ONE ASKED for. If they were not so irresponsible, then we wouldnt need
all these taxes. Why cannot governments make laws that require banks to lend to governments at 1% max rates.
Anyway, most smart people know 12-15% of all economic yearly activity is created through credit, if it were not for that we'de see
a massive depression. As long as rates are less than credit pumping, and people can pay rates, the casino sham keeps on rolling.
It only takes one wheel to fall of a high speed train to derail.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
This seems to broach on the subject of the PS3. However I have a HUGE problem with Sony in general, and by that I mean in every arena, such as music, video, gaming, and computing.
When arrogance is mentioned, it should be applied across the spectrum. For instance someone mentioned Sony MMORPG and those issues. That was a nasty shanking. The absolute deplorable arrogance of the rootkit. The stupid licensing, DRM, and issues that plague Blu Ray, MD Disks, and SACD.
SACD and MD have especially peeved me off with their arrogant licensing issues, and paranoid DRM tactics that remove the ability use the media in ways that you would want. Ever seen a SACD player for your car? Too much for licensing. MD? they had MD players since the early 90s. An absolute incredible technology that they completely squandered and screwed up because of their paranoia.
The licensing side needs to come to grips. Sony comes up with phenomenally good technology. Then the licensing side shanks the hell out of it rendering it pretty close to useless, and frustrating for the consumer. Arrogance. Complete and pure.
Blue ray promises to be that exact same shanking. Im not that excited frankly anymore. I have my DVDs which I can pull and use as I see fit. I buy a lot too...I have several hundred DVDs. If I could watch the Blue ray disks as I wanted, I might buy into that as well. DRM is crap. If the security hurts the legitimate users of your product, then it should not be worth implementing.
now all this talk about 3d Worlds and interactions on the "3.0 games". WHY would I want that? Myspace is already on the web. I dont need or want that from my game console. I want one thing, and one thing only. Games. Good games. In fact for $600 plus another $50 per game they better be SPECTACULAR games. Everything else is chromed plated crap. Where are the good games?
Sony IS arrogant, and I quite frankly dont see why anymore. You can take your ball back now, Sony. There are others I would rather play with.
Yeah, Nintendo is dragging its feet with the Wii online component. That sucks. But really, you act as if Home was the second coming or something. It's a 3D online chat room. Seriously, who cares about this? Why in the world would I want to go into Home to play an arcade game if I can just click on it on my Wii? Why would I want to sell games in this fake world instead of in the easy-to-use Wii shopping channel? It makes no sense.
:-/ I'm happy to see that you're finally taking Nintendo seriously, though.
Little Big World, however, that is something that excites me about the PS3.
Aw, damn, now I'm starting to think that you're just another paid-by-Sony astroturfer
You'd hate living in our state then. We have no income tax here, only sales tax.
Which works fine for me, since I'm a compulsive saver.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
As was reported on slashdot a few days ago, Kotaku was "blackballed" by Sony for reporting on rumors about Sony Home. Even though Sony and Kotaku are back on speaking terms now, the following is quite amusing:
e v-hands-me-my-balls-242974.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/oddities/gdc07-warhawk-d
GDC07: Warhawk Dev Hands Me My Balls
There was this moment, just seconds after I sat down between Phil Harrison and David Karraker, when the entire table of bloggers, PR people and developers at Sony's Blogger Congress were quiet.
Then Dylan Jobe, Warhawk game director for Incognito, spoke up.
"Before we get started, I have something for Brian."
I noticed Jobe had a small box on the table in front of him. He is a big fan of Kotaku and was impressed with what the site did last week over the whole Sony Home dealio.
So he said he wanted to give me a present to thank me. Opening the box he revealed: A set of brass balls.
Actually, at the current currency rates, it's about 60,000 yen ($508 US dollars) for a PS3 that sells for $600+tax in the US. In essence, the Japanese are getting the console for about $100 cheaper; depending on what the sales tax is in your home state.
Some states don't have sales taxes. Our state has no income tax.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
they definitely committed grievous harm to sales of the Dreamcast by making an early announcement of bogus PS2 specs which they had to know were fraudulent
Not to leap to Sony's defense or anything, but if all it took to destroy an existing console was a vaporware strike, Sega's marketers are some truly fragile wilting violets.
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
But if you are among the 'core, then you have to understand that Sony is pure fucking evil.
If ya think sony is pure evil... you may want to go back to history class. Or english and find out what the word evil is. Sony has been dumb, has been over aggresive, has been a hype machine and under achiever but "evil" is a stretch. Or did I miss the news story where Cell chips are made from African Orphan brains?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Then - as promised by their leadership ("we'll firewall it at the PC!") they embedded a rootkit on music CDs. This criminal act, followed by their arrogant defense of this action, proved to me that they are nothing more than the lowest level of corporate scum.
So I made a choice - no more money to Sony. Hasn't hurt a bit; I've spent freely on electronics and entertainment and don't miss Sony a bit.
Those who haven't learned yet are doomed to suffer at Sony's hands - Sony hasn't learned their lesson yet. They don't have a public relations problem, they have a corporate ethics problem. I don't see anything that indicates any change in this situation at any time in the forseeable future.
Yes, lets take the US based price of two systems before tax and compare them to another system in a different continent with different taxes and hell lets even apply taxes to it without applying it to the original systems. Hell you might as well choose the Mideast prices since it's going to be around 850 in Israel.
In the US the Wii costs 289 dollars, and the 360 costs 328 dollars, and the PS3 costs 530 dollars.
I know because I own them all.
Facts people. They're not just for breakfast anymore.
| - | - |
I don't seem to have noticed any great consumer demand for the console to come bundled with a HiDef drive. The games don't need it (not noticed many 2 disk 360 games anyway) - and as one of the main advantages I see for the PS3 over the 360 is the use of the hard drive to spool in games AND all machines having a hard drive - if they did need more space, they could've just put a data DVD to put on the drive and a Boot DVD to shove in the PS3 in the case and been done with it.
The BluRay drive is in the PS3 as sony wants to own the next big media format. If it takes off and beats HD-DVD, then you've kindly donated to this with your PS3 purchase. If HD-DVD wins, then you've just pissed away a load of money.
Preface: I have 2x NES, SNES, N64, Cube; GBA, SP x2, DS Lite; Dreamcast; 2x PS2, 1 PS2/Slim (gave my PS1 away); 2x PSP; and a PS3. I will be getting a Wii as soon as Paper Mario hits, maybe sooner. I have a solid selection of the best games for all of the above platforms, and I've played (if not finished) just about every SNES and NES game worth playing. I grew up when Atari and Nintendo were big, and am as happy to play an 8-bit game as an HD next-gen game. If that's not "'core", or whatever you kids are calling it, then you're the one with the weaker definition.
Alright, cards on the table time. For some oddly contrived reason you are faced with a choice as to which company: Sony or Nintendo, is allowed to have ever existed in the gaming market. Which would you choose? I can tell you that as someone with a similar background(although I don't own a PSP or a PS3), I'd choose Nintendo, because Sony just doesn't matter as much.
That said, you have no clue if you think Sony is "evil". Nor is Nintendo "evil" anymore; whether this is by necessity or choice is irrelevant. The only thing that killed the Dreamcast was Sega's business prowess. Substandard manufacturing, terrible marketing, and making lots of bad choices along the way. I would much rather see them as the third competitor in the console race than Microsoft (because Microsoft is ongoingly evil), but that's not going to happen soon.
Order of evilness today: Microsoft > Sony > Nintendo
Order of evilness in the late 80s/early 90s: Nintendo > Microsoft > Sony
Except then Nintendo was never really horrible to their customers. The worst thing they ever did was set up those Nintendo authorized repair centers and charge a bit too much for repairs related to the design decision of making the NES load like a VCR. Sony and Microsoft have been comparitively horrible to their customers, especially in recent memory.
Care to explain how a company that delivered two massively successful consoles each with a huge library of excellent games is a "big turd"?
Gah, I hate statements like that. It's stealing credit from Capcom, Konami, Square Enix, Atlus, Take 2, EA, and every third party who made great games and apportioning it to Sony for some fucked up reason. Sony didn't make the playstation, the third parties did.
Because almost none of those games are in-house games. Had Sony not been around, they would've been made for the Gamecube or N64 or Dreamcast or XBox. One of the things I truly hate Sony for is their idiotic fanbase. Mainly because they gave me shit for the better part of a decade for daring to enjoy games with color in them. And they'll also criticize the fuck out of a Nintendo title, while praising another titles that's exactly as derivative of the original Nintendo title.
And how does Sony/BMG's contractor have anything to do with Sony Computer Entertainment, which is an entirely different---physical and businessological--- subsidiary?
Sony media calls the shots within Sony proper. Plus, *always* hold a corporate entity as a whole responsible for the actions of their subsidiaries. If you hate phillip morris, you shouldn't buy Kraft food products.
If Lik-Sang failed because they couldn't sell modchips in the UK, then they had more issues than Sony.
Lik-Sang got knocked out by Sony suing them in dozens of territories for importing PSPs before the release date.
Your anger and hatred is misplaced, and more related to a $499-599 pricetag than any real, tangible, logical reason.
Maybe his is, mine isn't. My anger is placed at the credit-stealing, attention whoring, and sheer arrogance of the company and it's fanbase. I don't want to be associated with playstation fans. I don't want to be associated with Sony. They're fucking thieving scum, and maybe you're ok with that but I prefer to reward the guys who come up with and push the concepts rather than the guy who comes in later, mocks an idea only to copy it and tweak it a tad, then declares it his innovation. Sony needs to be put into their place like Nintendo was. The only way to do that is to not buy the thing until that has occured.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
"Just the same, the folks that spoke for Sony yesterday honestly seemed like passionate businessmen with an interest in making a good product"
No, Sony could give a crap less about making a good product, just like they could give a crap less about making a good movie, music, game, hardware, software or ANYTHING.
If they make a good anything it's simply a BYPRODUCT of trying to make money, which is all sony has ever cared about.
TruePunk | Games
the discussion of Sony's arrogance, was that arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services. Thanks to the impersonal nature of quotes and the numerous (rightly decried) public relations gaffes they've suffered, their confidence can easily be seen as arrogance by third party information consumers.
Gotcha, arrogance.
Slashdot = -1 Redundant, Asperger, kdawson FUD, Libertarian, and Linux
Sony subsidises the hardware, as do the other manufacturers. Value for money is not at issue, and never was.
The only question is, how much is a PS3 worth to you, right now? Those that want a cheap Blu-Ray player + two decent games and have $700 to spare, can buy it today and feel happy if they want. Those of us who are accustomed to paying no more than a $300 entry fee for a games platform will probably want to wait, regardless of what else is thrown in.
Personally, I'm not big on paying extra for "potential". If it doesn't do everything I want yet, I'll wait until it does - and save a few $$$ in the process when the price drops.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I get the distinct impression I'm responding to a troll, so I'll keep this short. "And how does Sony/BMG's contractor have anything to do with Sony Computer Entertainment, which is an entirely different---physical and businessological--- subsidiary?" Are you seriously suggesting that we should further reduce corporate responsibility, and not hold companies responsibility for contractors they hire doing unethical and illegal things in their name? From the point of view of public policy, this is a horrible idea. The hiring company is the entity in the best position to supervise its contractors, if we don't put the burden on them to it, who is supposed to do it? Further, your stance gives companies every reason to look the other way and to outsource evil to outsiders and then claim innocence.
Yah, maybe you would buy one because you don't think it worth that price. Just don't tell us you don't desire one, because otherwise, why the constant flow of rants? Or maybe THAT is the job you've been talking about? Ranting against SONY?
What about finding a subject for yourself that will get a few kinder and warmer words out of your keyboard? Look, if you become a nicer person after all, next thing you know, your aunt might buy you a PS3 in the end.
But then, drinking all that poo gave you a real bad breath, didn't it?
Two evenings with Sony Computer Entertainment!
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Your comment that HDMI provides very little advantage indicates that you don't understand about HDCP. If the PS3 didn't have HDMI and only had component, there would be no BlueRay because there would be no Protected Video Path. Google HDCP and get a handle on the HDCP spec and how high definition video content is not allowed over component video hardware witout down-sampling.
I'm slightly disappointed to hear that nothing was said or even mentioned about a more lenient stance on psp home brew which i have been trying to get into since the beginning but can't for various reasons.. (namely my idiot friend upgrading my psp firmware)
Even though it would most likely never happen, it would be good to see some backing from Sony on this issue
BTW, I forgot to mention that despite that BC issue, Europeans won't get the 20 GB option either. And the prices? Even bigger than in the USA...
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
I wouldn't bet on that, lately it seems that Sony is regarded as more evil than Microsoft here, considering the rootkit crap and all...
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
sony said Blu-ray wasn't cracked
*puts fingers in ears*
"i dont hear you hackers lalalalalalalala!"
way to sugar coat a story btw..
also.. this q&a session didnt touch the fact that, at least in my region, sony has halted ALL ps2 sales in their vane attempt to push the 5 dusty ps3's off the shelves.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
actually i have quit swg around 1.5 years ago, having created a major guild in eclipse with one of my friends, and initial members, set up a major city together (Freedom City), and got the maximum of 'rebel' sentiment as much as can be get from the game.
some people are so much star wars fans that they STILL continue, hoping that someday lucas will intervene and set matters right or hand it over to someone else than sony to do it.
Read radical news here
Well, my coment was only intended to point out that the British price is ridiculously high. If you want the actual comparable British street prices, including local taxes, here they are:
PS3 £425 ($821, launches March 23rd, no game)
Wii £180 ($347, includes Wii sports game)
360 £190 ($367, no game)
So the PS3 without a game costs more over here than a wii with a game, a 360, and a 360 game put together. But of course it will eventually get an advert-supported second life clone, so that's all right then? I think not.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
To be fair, you're comparing the "full system" PS3 price to the Core 360 price. The full system 360 is £279.99. I do realise that since we're not getting the 20Gb PS3 model over here right away this is a bit of a moot point though. Although I loathe the core 360 system with my very soul, my mum got my brother one for his birthday and since he won't be going online with it it's perfect for him.
Although Sony has made a few mistakes in it's public relations, one can't help but wonder if Microsoft has a hand with all the hate that is going on towards Sony. Microsoft has prior experience in creating FUD towards it's competitors, and in the fanboy culture of gaming, this has never been easier.
Microsoft's fanboy conversion rate is very high. Although there are some valid criticisms regarding the PS3, much of the same criticisms can be applied towards Microsoft.
For instance, the cost of the XBox 360 when WiFi and HD-DVD, and online gaming are added, is far greater than the cost of the high-end PS3. Sure you might like the modular approach, but the fact is, quite a significant portion of gamers use the online service, and use WiFi. If you add those two components, the XBox 360 costs over $100 more than the PS3 over 4 years. Add the HD-DVD player, and it costs $300. If the PS3 is prohibitively expensive, than the XBox 360 is more so, notably for online gamers who don't want to punch holes in their walls or ceilings.
Sony's business practices have been terrible in the past, but Microsoft's has been even worse. At least Sony is starting to embrace open standards, and we need to encourage that sort of thinking by buying their open products. The PS3 includes support for any USB webcam, or headphones, accepts flash cards other than Memory Stick, allows you to install other OS'es.. you can tell much of the machine was made by people who "get it".
Instead of arguing logical points, fanboys have been ranting over just about everything, even though some can be directed towards Microsoft, and some are just trivial in nature. For instance, Zonk ranted against Sony about long lineups at stores, and how people paid homeless people to buy a PS3. It's gotten to that point where logic no longer applies, and it's a mob mentality that's taken control of XBox gamers everywhere.
If you're getting paid by Microsoft, either in the form of advertising, laptops, or cash, then good for you, at least you're doing it for sound reasons. But if you're bashing Sony for everything they do, posting snide remarks under every Sony story, then you should ask yourself if you've been infected by Microsoft's viral campaign.
British local taxes are quite simple - 17.5% VAT. Currently, £425 in USD is $820.71. If we remove the 17.5% taxes, £425/1.175=£361.70 ($698.48). So we're still being screwed by $98.48 (£51) on the PS3 price even when we don't count taxes into account, and since the PS3 is being brought into the country by pretty much the same container ships from Taiwan that take the consoles everywhere import costs aren't an option. Sony attempted to use VAT as an excuse for why the console was costlier than the US or especially Japan, but if that was truly the case the console would be £365 not £425. And their imports lock-out especially for EU customers is abominable - you can't even buy games or accessories online from many retailers anymore, which makes the "region free" thing a total mockery.
In comparison, the 360 non-Core is £269 ($519.46), with free Pro Evolution Soccer (Winning Eleven to you). Taking VAT off that, it's £228.94 ($442.10). So Microsoft's added charge only amounts to $42.10 (£21.80), more than half that of Sony's and less than the cost of the included game, and it's a lot easier to get imported 360 games than it is PS3 ones (a lot more are region free than you think, including ones like Gears of War). That Microsoft looks better than Sony here is pretty amazing when considering their Vista pricing differential, but they do.
Care to share a link to a credible reference?
My thought too. Even though I would hear 13 year old kids in EB badmouthing the DC before the launch, it still managed to have (At that time.) the biggest launch in history and hit 1 million units faster than any other console.
To all the morons who would say, "I can't afford both and the PS2 will be better." I would reply that if they couldn't save a few hundred dollars in a year then they probably shouldn't get either and concentrate on things like buying food.
Lik-Sang were sent a cease and desist nearly a full year before hand so it's not like they didn't see it coming. Even before their laid off staff even had the chance to get pregnant. Besides, Lik-Sang didn't even show up for the legal proceedings and shut shop voluntarily. They could have carried on in business simply by discontinuing selling grey imports when they were requested.
It's not like Microsoft or Nintendo aren't dancing on their graves either. Both took Lik-Sang to court beforehand.
I'd like to hear your opinions on Microsoft.
First of all, not everything that is a law is fair and just. If its an entirely legitimate law, then I say the law and the lawsuit are bullshit. There's nothing "grey" about importing that wasn't made up by huge powerful companies and forced into law.
Second, Lik-Sang's entire business is importing. If they're sued over importing, what exactly do they have left to fall back on? Its a no brainer that they would close up shop.
Third, they didn't show up for the legal preceedings because it was blindingly obvious that there was no way they would be able to defend against it, when they're being sued in practically every EU country.
Nintendo suing Lik-Sang doesn't make it right either.
In short, yes, it was bullshit. I'm not giving Sony a free pass because their PR team tries to spin it as a fair and just ruling.
They're a company. Thats all companies do care about. Nintendo and Microsoft are the same. And typically, you make money by making a good product. Thus they're interested in making a good product to make money.
Thank you for not shooting me (the messenger). I recently bought a large display for my computer because my eyes aren't soo good. The display happened to have HDMI with HDCP. I was lucky because I didn't fully understand the issues when I bought it. Then I bought the PS3 because I wanted to program it with Linux and utilize the multiple cores for an embedded application. As a matter of course, I happened to buy several BlueRay titles, and they are lovely. I am not very happy about the HDCP protection of BlueRay titles, but I lucked into a working combination of hardware. If you happen to own a compliant display, the PS3 is a fun choice for console, Linux computer, and BlueRay player. The whole HDCP thing is a fiasco and it is much worse for PCs wanting to play BlueRay media. Not only do you need a compliant display, but the current breed of video cards don't have encryption chips on board, and can't do the job. Google for "HDCP Fiasco" to read more about it. Cheers, Doug.
So far they've tried telling me I should be happy to give them $650+ USD for a worthless product (leaving BluRay out of this, they're talking about it in the sense it's a game system) that's only assisted by crappy, arrogant interviews that produce asinine hubris-tainted quotations.
In short, Sony is telling me as a customer that I should reward them for being complete and total dicks to me. It does not matter what they're like in person, that is the image they're sending me as a customer.
Sorry Sony I think I'll stick with Nintendo and MS who at least don't fail too often on these prior points and, at the VERY least, not all at once when they do screw up.
"Just a fox, a whisper."
Apparently you've never actually had any experience with corporations. Contrary to popular opinion, or what you've seen on TV, board members don't sit around every day in posh rooms dreaming up how to perpetrate evil and fleece their customers to make huge amounts of cash by pulling the strings in their complicated conspiratorial web of darkness, and then calling the hitmen when someone finds out. Businesses must keep things very separate or they get into big trouble very quickly with the law.
Talk to people who actually work at SCE. I have.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Are you saying companies should not be able to control how their products are sold when there is a law there to assist them in doing it?
Second, Lik-Sang's entire business is importing. If they're sued over importing, what exactly do they have left to fall back on? Its a no brainer that they would close up shop.
Funny, but plenty of companies make a legitimate business from importing goods. In the computer & video game space you have play-asia.com for example, plus countless eBay based outfits. Perhaps because they have the sense to do it legally, and comply with cease and desist notices. If Lik-Sang felt like building their house on sand then that's too bad for them. It isn't like it's the first time they've been in legal hot water with console makers either.
Third, they didn't show up for the legal preceedings because it was blindingly obvious that there was no way they would be able to defend against it, when they're being sued in practically every EU country.
That's a pretty feeble cop-out. They could have protected their chief market of the UK if they felt like and set a precedent for the others. They could have even taken it you the Europen Court for a definitive ruling (EU courts trump national courts). They didn't turn up at all. It's not like they didn't have EU presence since they had a large warehouse operation running in Germany.
Nintendo suing Lik-Sang doesn't make it right either.
Nintendo within their rights too. While personally I think mod-chips have some legitimate uses, they also have plenty illegitimate uses too. And while personally I think the problem is of the console company's own making for introducing regional coding, that does not grant a licence for others to sell chips that aid piracy. I expect Lik-Sang were sent cease and desist notices about selling mod chips too until they were stamped on. They could have complied then too.
In short, yes, it was bullshit. I'm not giving Sony a free pass because their PR team tries to spin it as a fair and just ruling.
It was fair and just. Sony told them to cease and desist. A whole year later and they still hadn't. If Lik-Sang had any chance of winning they would have shown up in court. Instead they cut their losses and ran. It wouldn't surprise me if the same people involved weren't amongst those selling on eBay right now.
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Only because they have been lucky so far. Just like people still write computer programs even though any non-trivial code is probably infringing one bullshit US patent or another.
"Tesco vs Levi" was the important case, where the idea of free trade was struck down by the courts by saying that if the goods involved a trademark, the trademark owner had complete control over the distribution chain and could stop anyone from buying their goods in one country and selling them in another. I mean this is Tesco we are talking about, the UK equivalent of Walmart when it comes to market power, and they lost. The exception to this is EU law which overrides English law of course (i.e. you are allowed to buy stuff in one EU country and sell it in another). Nintendo used that to threaten small computer stores in the past, but Sony went for the lawyers big-time with the PSP.
I find all fanboys equally obnoxious. Nintendo fanboys on here are unbearable. Rather than making fun of "kiddy games" they put people down in different ways. They attack people who play "mature" games (to them this means that it just has blood and cursing...which means it isn't fun or innovative). They attack people who play FPS's. They call these people teens or not true gamers or frat boys. The fact of the matter is, if you find a game fun, play it...if anyone judges you based off of that, they are morons. The fact that they are getting to you just shows you are insecure about it.
Sony is just a company. The PS2 is a great console with plenty of games to play...it doesn't matter if they are third party or not. The reason the third parties went to the PS2 was because Nintendo treated third parties with garbage and refused to innovate (in the sense they would not move off of cartridges...now are they copying Sony's innovation? actually, they passed on the technology...so it is Nintendo's fault that Sony took off in a way). Nintendo is making more profit off of their customers than any other company. Nintendo fanboys brag about this fact...as if this is a good. Yeah, Nintendo makes cheaper hardware so they can profit off their fans more and this is viewed as a good thing by its fans (pretty amusing really, impressive marketing).
The fact is all these companies do evil things at times. Nintendo fanboys are just excited beacuse this round Nintendo isn't screwing up as much so they can rub it in other people's faces. Just as immature as the Sony fanboys before them. It's easier to just ignore all the crap and see there are three consoles that each bring a different element to the table. Right now the PS3 doesn't have any games for it to be taken seriously. Really, if the Wii didn't have Zelda (a gamecube port) it wouldn't have anything that would draw me to it either. Wii sports and a lot of the other titles are just mini-games...not worth the price (I know, Sports is bundled, talking about the other games) and lacking any depth. The 360 has had large headstart but is just now finally getting some titles that make it look interesting and have a very robust online component. All of these consoles have plenty of potential (some more realized than others).
What I am trying to say is move on from your fanboyism because it is moronic. There should not be emotion involved when buying a game system. If a system has more of the types of games you enjoy, then buy it. Doesn't matter what other people think or say or what evil thing people say a company is doing. If what you like happens to be a Wii...great. Just don't turn in to an arrogant prick and judge people based on what they buy. You are turning in to the same type of person you hate.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Did you pay for all 100 games? Neither did anyone else.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
They're a company. Thats all companies do care about
The problem with your statement is that corporations/companies are run by humans, not robots. It's far cheaper (profitable) to send executives on commercial airlines, and yet we see almost all major companies flying their execs around in private jets. I would posit that most executives run their companies out of self-interest rather than some lofty ambition to maximize profits.
For the guys out there that have gone up in the ranks and achieved astounding financial success, the next step is to boost their own ego by being seen as "a good citizen." Some CEOs use their companies as extensions of their own charitable intentions, securing personal satisfaction from giving out millions and getting a front seat at the Red Cross Annual giving awards. Many publicly held companies give far more than they need to secure public goodwill.
Milton Friedman wrote a famous article deriding corporate leadership for giving too much to charity, claiming "the business of business is business." His point was that public corporations should give money to the shareholders, who then get to decide how to spend their money.
Then, you always have the oddball company that is not privately held and does "profit-irresponsible" things. Bosch Gmbh, with $50 billion a year in revenues (auto parts, primarily), was set up as a charitable entity and gives 96% of shareholder dividends to charity. Privately held companies have no responsibility to do whatever the hell they want, and their actions primarily depends on the mood of the founder or owner.
I would propose that the folks who work at Nintendo would rank making good games above being profitable. Doing well-enough financially allows them to keep their jobs and keep doing what they're passionate about.
Suggest that Piracy killed the Dreamcast and millions will come out of the woodwork to argue with you. So I didn't bring it up. Besides, I think Sony was the deciding factor. I didn't actually even GET a dreamcast until after they stopped making them, because I didn't have the money for one until the price drop (I was po at the time.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's a pretty feeble cop-out. They could have protected their chief market of the UK if they felt like and set a precedent for the others. They could have even taken it you the Europen Court for a definitive ruling (EU courts trump national courts). They didn't turn up at all. It's not like they didn't have EU presence since they had a large warehouse operation running in Germany.
Do you have any idea how much that would have cost? The suits were filed simultaneously, they couldn't just fight in the UK. They'd need to also have some kind of legal representation in all the other EU nations that Sony filed suit, just to keep the case from going to a summary judgment against them. Fighting one case would have meant fighting all of them. As a small retailer, they simply couldn't afford to fight dozens of simultaneous lawsuits, each in a different country in which the courts speak different languages. Sony could easily afford that, and they knew Lik-Sang couldn't. If Sony had wanted to simply stop Lik-Sang exporting to the UK, then they would have only filed suit in the UK. They didn't want Lik-Sang to stop, they wanted them destroyed, so they used a legal loophole (the PSPs that Lik-Sang were exporting did not have CE-approved power supplies) to burn the company down. Couldn't have them reminding European consumers that they were getting a PS3 which cost over 20% more, has less features, and is 4 months late, after all.
The avatars can never touch each other. Everyone will have their personal space that is never ever violated.
/wave from a foot away.
How sterile. In order to dissuade people from having sex, even shaking hands is forbidden.
I don't think this will help people do business, as if I see a man on my screen that is a representation of my new client, I want my avatar to shake hands with him, not just
Did you ever get the feeling the story is too damn long and in the present tense?