Samsung's UpStage Looks To Trump iPhone

bj sends word of Samsung's recently unveiled cell phone, called UpStage. It will ship April 1 (no fooling) for $300, or $150 with a 2-year contract from Sprint Nextel. "...the UpStage is a candy-bar style handset that's less than half an inch thick and not much taller or wider than an iPod Nano. Other multimedia-friendly cell phones struggle to balance the sometimes-conflicting requirements of a conventional handset and a music or video player; the UpStage solves this quandary by simply putting phone functions on one side of the device and the multimedia functions on the other side."

Comments

It's all about the looks

[lemmen]

It doesn't matter if a phone has all nice features, a lot depends on the looks (both physical and OS).
A small phone with MP3 playback option won't win it of iPhone just because of the MP3 functionality.

Just my 2 cts.

Re:It's all about the looks

[Virtual_Raider]

It does have a neat feature that I swear I was thinking about some time ago. That spare battery that charges the phone while in the walled. I should have patented it =( I think its biggest downside would be that flip thingamabob, it just to much annoyance potential. IANAAF (I am not an Apple Fanboy) but I read that Jobs supposedly sent designers back to the drawing board because he was unhappy with the usability of the iPhone. I wonder if the Samsung engineers actually spent any time playing with a functional prototype. I feel it would be pretty hard to use this device the way I use my Nokia 6820: play song - text some SMS - read email - pause music - consult the time. If I had to Flip back and forth all the time for half of this things it would certainly make ME flip :P

Re:It's all about the looks

[aztracker1]

Personally, I think it's a horrible idea, the first problem, what kind of case, carrying/clip is going to be available. The fact that you have one screen in your hand, and another against your face when not using the headset is another (smudgy filthy screen). Not being able to setup playlists on the side that controls playback is a bad idea all around.

Honestly, if you want a decent phone with mp3 playback there are more than a few options out there with mp3 playback, and MicroSD support. I'm using a Nokia 6133, the music interface isn't so great, but is good enough to get through a workout without the need for an extra device (leash).

I think that overall the "Chocolate" line of phones seems to be the best mix of cell + mp3, the biggest limitation on any of them is capacity. It really isn't *SO* hard to have a usable interface for music playback, and regular general phone usage. I honestly like the idea of music in my phone as it's one less device to carry around, but honestly, my iPod is still going to be my preferred device for this. This phone is a gimmick, and to be honest, just seems like something that will annoy people after more than a day of using the thing... Ala nokia's nGage, which was a cool idea, poorly executed...

Re:It's all about the looks

[Mattsson]

Well, I took a look at the Samsung phone and in my eye, it beats the Iphone hands down in looks.
But I also think Apples other hardware are so-so looking... (I have a problem with chrome, white and glossy-plastic designs.)

It also have the advantage of having physical buttons for controllers.
Touchscreens may be cool looking, but they suck from an ergonomics and usability point of view.
For an example, try using a touchscreen mp3-device in your pocket while riding you bicycle.

The biggest downside I can see with this device is the 64MB MicroSD card that comes with it!
Honestly! What are they thinking!
And, of course, the MicroSD is at the moment limited to just 2GB, soon to be 4GB.

Just hope they don't do like SonyEricsson and require an adapter to connect the headphones or use non-standard usb cables for computer-sync. =(
Let's hear it for industry standards! *the masses cheer*
Proprietary connections suck.

Re:It's all about the looks

[arivanov]

The ergonomics on the recent crop of Samsung (quick look at the article shows that this is valid for this one as well) is absolute crap.

To the point - the side buttons which allow it to be narrower and smaller than a comparable phone by other manufacturers make it impossible to fit the phone in a car holder without pressing at least one of them. Further to this, while it is possible to disable them when the phone is inactive they get activated when you answer or call. As a result you end up with your phone being "friendly" and rejecting a call, adjusting the volume or doing something else wonderfull in call for you if you are answering using a handsfree in a car.

No thanks.

I would rather have a slightly bigger and less buggy phone, which I can fit in a proper car holder. Even if Samsung has actually provided a proper headphone socket this time which I bet it did not so you are stuck with the original crappy headphones.

Re:It's all about the looks

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen this phone(well actually the identical Samsung SGH-F300), or should i say mp3 player, on CeBIT. The phone display is really small and writing messages is real scroll adventure. Finding a contact is even worse. You can either search on the small screen by typing part of the name, or you can use the big screen but the catch is that you can't use the keyboard to enter a part of the name, so you have to scroll down. There's no 3G functionality, which for most people is not really a problem. One thing that makes this phone/mp3 player nicer than the iPhone is that is really slick and it will fit any pocket. So unless you want an mp3 player with some call functionality, and don't mind looking a bit stupid to people, who think that you've accidentally flipped you slider phone while talkind, this is actually the perfect solution. But if you want a real phone, not even smartphone, better look for another solution.

Re:It's all about the looks

[192939495969798999]

IMHO, This phone just competes with existing phones, it is nothing like an iphone. The iphone for example has NO buttons on the surface of the phone. It is in a completely different league from anything that currently exists on the phone market. The upstage is a good competitor for existing phones though, like against the motokrzr, etc.

Re:It's all about the looks

[Yvan256]

It's not all about the looks. I'm tired of the "People only buy Apple gear because of the look" cliché. Some of us buy it because it "just works". The fact that the gear looks nice is just a bonus.

Re:It's all about the looks

[dlim]

On the other hand, usability of a phone and usability of a PDA or music player may not be the same thing. For example, I like being able to feel the keys on my phone's keypad so I can press and hold the 2 button and execute the speed dial to call home without having to navigate menus or look at the screen to be sure I'm hitting the right key. This is the main reason I've never purchased a touchscreen PDA/phone.

Similarly, I need a limited number of functions on my music/media player. Play/Pause, Stop, Next, Previous, Volume Controls, and a way to select the media to play. These functions don't intuitively map to the standard buttons on a phone. And I find it easier to call someone and talk to them than to tap on a miniature keyboard, so a QWERTY thumb keyboard is useless to me.

This is an attempt at convergence where appropriate (caller ID through the earphones), not just another FrankenGadget. For the people who want a phone to make phone calls and a media player to play music, but don't want to carry 2 devices, this could be useful.

My only real complaint is that I don't see it as a very useful music player because it requires Yet Another Music Manager and/or purchases from Yet Another Music Store. I already have to manage 2 music libraries (iTunes to play on my iPod and WMP to play on my Xbox). I'm not interested in managing a 3rd. What I really need is one Music Library with a plugin architecture that allows me to sync my devices, stream to various devices on my local network, auto import from the file system and tag my files.

Re:It's all about the looks

[catwh0re]

Make your own Samsung Upstage

1. Take one mobile phone which you enjoy the user interface and functionality.
2. Take one MP3 player which you also enjoy the quality, interface and music availability
3. Apply a thin smear of 5 minute aryldyte to the backs of each device. Wait 30 seconds and ensure tacky.
4. Firmly press each device together. Hold in place with soft jaws, wait 10 minutes.
5. Enjoy new Samsung Upstage.

Here is one we made earlier.

Re:It's all about the looks

[Anonymous Coward]

I would rather have a slightly bigger and less buggy phone, which I can fit in a proper car holder. Even if Samsung has actually provided a proper headphone socket this time which I bet it did not so you are stuck with the original crappy headphones.

Yeah, it's a shame that this is the only phone in the world and no other companies built phones. Because then you could buy them instead.

double sided phone?

[Taelron]

You just know we are going to read about these in a couple of months failing because the screens are getting cracked and busted left and right.

Re:double sided phone?

[Anonymous Coward]

left and right nonono, silly... front and back

Re:double sided phone?

[kjart]

You just know we are going to read about these in a couple of months failing because the screens are getting cracked and busted left and right.

I don't understand - why would having screens on two sides of a phone make them more likely to be damaged? I'd be more worried about the screen on the iPhone since it is a) large and b) the only real input method on the phone. Lets say the the multimedia screen breaks on this device - you still have a functioning phone. If it breaks on the iPhone, you have an expensive brick.

Re:double sided phone?

[Joebert]

Why would anyone want to buy a stylish extra-protective cover if they didn't ?
Gosh, don't you know anything ?

Re:double sided phone?

[superpete]

I don't mean to criticise you, but have you ever owned any of the new phones at all? I've only ever seen one phone with a colour screen crack. Compare this to the old Nokia 5110 which had a recall for screens just failing. In fact, I've seen more monochrome screens fail or crack then I have any colour phone displays. On the other side, I don't see what makes this phone so special. Almost every phone on the market here in Australia has MP3 Playback support. In fact you can pick up a Sony Ericsson W300i walkman phone for AU$200 as a prepaid option.

Re:double sided phone?

[ThePengwin]

In these days though people expect technology to be 100% or not at all. But i can see what you mean. you'd want to get the phone fixed, but if the screen was damaged you can still keep some functionality until you had it repaired.

Re:double sided phone?

[Taelron]

What I am saying is you will have to be even more careful to protect the screen especially when its on both sides. As for having seen a color screen crack, yes I have. An incident at work cracked the screen on my Treo 700 and my girlfriend somehow busted the screen on her Razor when it flipped open inside her purse somehow. A co-worker of mine busted the color screen on his nokia just sitting in his car and forgetting to pull it off his belt, the seatbelt was enough to crack it. And my sisters husband, granted he works construction, has broken the screen on his last three phones.

Sure someone is going to come out with some sort of fancy carrier for it, but still you are going to hear about people cracking one or both screens because they sat on their phone and something smacked one side. Many of the belt carriers for phones, for people that are really active, leave indents on your phone. Every phone I have had in the last 8 years has had marks left on the back caused by the belt clips. So again, one of the two screens are going to get severely marred up by belt clip carriers and open to possibly worse damage as well.

So for those that question my thinking, obviously you havent thought it through yourselves.

Re:double sided phone?

[RESPAWN]

So... basically you already know of a lot of phones with cracked screens. So why would it be a big deal if the screens started cracking on this one? Because it has two of them?

Face it: phones break. It's no big deal. You just have to go get a new one.

Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[nebaz]

Wouldn't a stylus approach, with a touch screen allow for arbitrary button placement? Wouldn't this solve this problem?

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Wouldn't a stylus approach, with a touch screen allow for arbitrary button placement? Wouldn't this solve this problem?

Gak! Stylus? On a phone - like I really want to need two hands to use my phone...

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[kjart]

Wouldn't a stylus approach, with a touch screen allow for arbitrary button placement? Wouldn't this solve this problem?

This is a solution, but I wouldn't say it's the solution. I currently have a PDA-phone and though the touchscreen is nice for the PDA aspects, having to use it for dialing is a pain. Having to a) look at the screen and b) use two hands to do almost everything (as opposed to dialing single-handed and without looking on a normal handset, for example) is a pain. I'm glad cell phone makers are not all on-board with the touchscreen thing because I still think there keypads make for far superior phones. If I didn't have a phone provided through work (hence the lame PDA-phone), I'd possibly consider one of these things.

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[Anomolous Cowturd]

Gak! Stylus? On a phone - like I really want to need two hands to use my phone...

One hand to keep the pr0n coming via WAP, the other to umm... keep yourself coming via FAP?

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[ACMENEWSLLC]

I have a bluetooth headset with remote controls on it. How about another bluetooth device for remote control? Make the phone extremely small, stream the music through bluetooth, and put all the buttons on my headset. Lord knows I love having the exact same button combination for switching a call back to the headset as for hanging up on my H500.

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[*weasel]

whether nubby buttons are better than touch-buttons for txt-ing/email is to be determined, but for dialing?
who needs buttons? Voice dialing on my last two phones was more than up to the task.

The necessary interface for a cellphone is now pretty much just a speaker, a mic, and a button. (send/end/power)

That's the extent of my bluetooth-enabled car's interface - and it works far better than one-handed dialing by a long shot. Particularly if you're actually doing anything (like driving).

If they can get optional text-to-speech for sending/receiving sms and email -- well, you can see where this is going.
The keypad is an old interface that isn't going to make sense for much longer.

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[foniksonik]

Seriously, how would we drive at 90 MPH and dial at the same time?

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[Sancho]

Voice dialing. Lots of phones have it these days.

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Great idea! Telephone, camera, mp3 player, and fishing rod -- all in one!

Re:Phone vs multimedia GUI?

[foniksonik]

Music playing too loud and the windows open... my headset has noise cancellation but the phone mic doesn't...

$300

[mastershake_phd]

$300 isnt too bad. Seems like phones have been getting too close to PS3 price territory.

Re:$300

[mgabrys_sf]

Getting? The Razr was 500 in-plan 800 outside of plan, in 2004. That's a bit higher than the PS3 troll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razr

Re:$300

[mo^]

Do people actually pay ticket price for phones though???

I have never paid anything for a phone beynd the £20 a month, one year, contract. had a razr within 2 months of release...

wish i could get a console on those terms.

It looks horrible!

[mysqlbytes]

I don't think it's going to upstage the iPhone in any category!

"Looks To..."

[Telephone Sanitizer]

"Samsung's UpStage Looks To Trump iPhone"

And fails.

Okay, I have no experience with the phone. I'm just saying that as with all recent Samsung phones, it almost certainly has two fatal weaknesses:

1) the typical Samsung phone interface (designed for the cheap and ignorant and their pet hamsters); and

2) the typical Samsung advanced feature-set (a.k.a. the self-destruct which activates immediately upon using it for anything other than voicemail).

Re:"Looks To..."

[Aqua OS X]

true true.

here's the phone in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-XFK8zOt9E

This think strikes me as another clunky convergence device with a million buttons..

Re:"Looks To..."

[kjart]

Nice video. I think it actually looks fairly decent. What I'd really like is this concept with essentially an iPod on one side and that phone on the other (or maybe phone by sony ericsson, nokia, etc). The mp3 side looks a bit clunky, but the concept is really cool.

As for the million button thing...this is literally a phone combined with an mp3 player...do you have problem with using a normal telephone or something?

Re:"Looks To..."

[Dan East]

Did you catch the part where the lady from Samsung is showing how you can flip the phone - one side for PDA / playing music and the other for making calls? The Gizmondo guy asks "There's no way to get both, right?", to which she replies "No, you wouldn't want them both.". Oh, really? So if I'm in the middle of a phone call and want to lookup a piece of information, or take down a piece of information, or do something as terribly extreme as using a calculator app, then I'm out of luck? I just love the way these marketing people dictate what people are supposed to want. Instead of saying "No, there is a technical limitation" or "We just couldn't get that flexibility into the first generation" she responds with something more along the line of "People smarter than you decided this is how you are going to use this phone".

Sorry, that just really jumped out at me.

Dan East

Re:"Looks To..."

[AaronLawrence]

You could presumably switch it to speakerphone, or you might be using a bluetooth earpiece. Or you can just say "wait a sec"...
It's not like you can use a normal smartphone while talking on it.

Re:"Looks To..."

[Nick_Allain]

I love her response to using the mp3 player and the phone at the same time. A glib and quick: "You wouldn't want to". Boy, it really sells me on these things when I get told what I wouldn't and wouldn't want to do.

Re:"Looks To..."

[glesga_kiss]

So if I'm in the middle of a phone call and want to lookup a piece of information, or take down a piece of information, or do something as terribly extreme as using a calculator app, then I'm out of luck?

Unless you are on hands-free, every other phone is like that. Unless you have eyes above your ears? :-)

Still, telling customers how they should be using it is very backwards.

Re:"Looks To..."

[Moofie]

Maybe when they said "Trump" they meant "Puts on a ridiculous toupee and goes bankrupt".

Just a theory.

Re:"Looks To..."

[DesertBlade]

She was talking about music playback and not PDA type functions.

Re:"Looks To..."

[drew]

Instead of saying "No, there is a technical limitation" or "We just couldn't get that flexibility into the first generation" she responds with something more along the line of "People smarter than you decided this is how you are going to use this phone".

I guess they felt that the best way to compete with Apple was to copy them?

Re:"Looks To..."

[Iambic Pentametor]

I'm listening to "This American Life" on my Treo 600 using The Core Pocket Media Player. If a phone call comes through, the podcast will pause and switch to phone automatically. Let's say my wife calls looking for a phone number. I'll be able to open my contacts while talking about her day and give her the phone number.

If she want's something I have to Google, I'll need to call her back after using the Treo's browser. After I'm done, I switch back to TCPMP and start back up the podcast right where it stopped. TCPMP also runs video. I have to downconvert AVIs to 160x160 with low-bitrate audio, but it means I can watch Colbert while walking to my car.

I love my Treo.

Ironic name.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ironic name, seeing as they're trying to upstage Apple with their product. Wonder what PR genius thought that up. Gives me a chuckle, at least.

Re:Ironic name.

[hc5duke]

Ironic? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...

Re:Ironic name.

[digitaldestiny]

I was thinking more along the lines of it making sense to name a cell phone "that flips" "UpStage", when you can name it, say, "FlipSide", or "Reverse". "UpStage" is so much cooler. I mean, wow, a phone that is toward, at, on, of, or relating to the rear part of a stage. The Samsung "toward, at, on, of, or relating to the rear part of a stage" must really be something, not at all like it's ugly cousins, the Samsung FlipSide and Samsung Reverse... A little bit like Microsoft Windows Genuine Advantage, where Genuine equals the word "bend", and Advantage equals "over" Just a meaningless rant on naming semantics.

Re:Ironic name.

[xantho]

The name is actually ironic, just not in the way the GP meant it. With a name like that, you'd think they were about to kick Apple's ass with that thing, but it sure does suck, dunnit?

Re:Ironic name.

[porcupine8]

Actually, it *is* pretty ironic, given that it doesn't really appear to have any features that would upstage the iPhone at all. Maybe size, but that cuts into the video playback size pretty severely.

Re:Ironic name.

[Hadlock]

I'm still trying to fathom how someone assumed this was going to compete with the iPhone. Totally different form factor, considerably less usability, standard sprint apps. Oh, and it plays MP3s too (rolls eyes). The iPhone competes with blackberries and Treos. That's it. I think the real story here is that sprint finally has a bluetooth phone avalible that isn't a clamshell and doesn't suck. I'm considering buying this phone simply because it's smaller than my current one (nokia 8225), is in my preferred form factor (candybar) and has bluetooth. With the money they're giving me for being a customer the phone is actually in my price range.

How does it trump?

[SuperKendall]

It has a smaller screen, and what sounds like (to me) a more confusing UI that will really get fingerprints and palm prints on the device since you are always turning it over in your hands... And it has its own software for sync. Chances that is better than iTunes?

Also, as you get into pure touchscreen devices (which the media side of this is) then the in-phone UI is crucial, and Apple has shown they can do a good job with consumer UI in small devices.

Now what does sound like a kind of good idea, is the battery pouch where it recharges its smaller battery. That is an interesting ide to keep the device size down while keeping battery life good and shifting some weight to your hip where it an be borne easier.

Re:How does it trump?

[kjart]

It has a smaller screen, and what sounds like (to me) a more confusing UI that will really get fingerprints and palm prints on the device since you are always turning it over in your hands...

More fingerprints than, say, a device that relies entirely on touching the screen (iPhone)? I don't think so. Also, based on the information here, the buttons for the media side are touch=sensitive, and not the screen (I'm guessing there is an on/off switch for that side? shrug).

In any case, this seems far less confusing than having everything integrated together. You'll basically have one side dedicated to basic phone functions and the other dedicated to multimedia. Each UI would therefore be optimized for each of it's dedicated functions (i.e. numeric keypad is ideal for a phone, but not for an mp3 player). To me, this is a novel way of basically combining a phone and mp3 player into one device without sacrificing the simplicity of either (of course, I haven't used it, so maybe it's really has nightmare UI - this is just speculation).

Re:How does it trump?

[samkass]

My guess is that they're going to sell WAY more of these things than Apple will sell iPhones during April and May.

It's funny that a product that won't be on sale for several months is "the one to beat".

uPhone?

[dotslashdot]

Shouldn't they just call it uPhone? That way, when someone asks, "iPhone?", you can reply, "No. uPhone."

Re:uPhone?

[architimmy]

How about the "MuPhone" so small you're guaranteed to lose it at least twice as much as your old phone.

WhaHuh?

[Telvin_3d]

Um, how does this have anything to do with the iPhone? What is the point in comparing the two devices? For all I know this phone will turn out to be successful, but it is a completely different product.

iPhone - 4-8 GB of storage
Upstage - 64 MB (HA! yes Megabyte!)

iPhone - 3.5 inch screen at 320x480
Upstage - 2.1 inch screen at 176x220

iPhone - Ability to upload your own video content
Upstage - Access to Sprint TV video clips

Why are these being compared? They are not in the same product class or market.

Re:WhaHuh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll bet the service provider lock-in is *very* comparable.

Re:WhaHuh?

[carpe_noctem]

Why are these being compared? They are not in the same product class or market.

Because it's an "iPhone killer", duh!

Oh wait.... since the iPhone hasn't been released yet, I guess that would instead make it an "iPhone aborter"..

Re:WhaHuh?

[suv4x4]

Um, how does this have anything to do with the iPhone?

It's a phone. Don't nitpick.

Wink-wink. Did I say that out loud question mark

What is the point in comparing the two devices? For all I know this phone will turn out to be successful, but it is a completely different product.

Apple sells.. newspapers, most of all. I bet Apple sold more worth of site articles, newspapers and magazines than all business Apple ever had on its own.

Which is why, with all this free advertisement iPhone gets, it'll be quite the shame if it bombs when it's actually released, smiley face.

Re:WhaHuh?

[kjart]

iPhone - 4-8 GB of storage
Upstage - 64 MB (HA! yes Megabyte!)

iPhone - Ability to upload your own video content
Upstage - Access to Sprint TV video clips

The storage is via microSD memory cards and it supports up to 2GB sticks. The 64MB is what is included with the phone. As for video, it mentions that you can upload your own music to the phone rather than purchasing it via Sprint, but makes no mention of whether you can do the same with video (I'll assume not until someone says you can).

Why are these being compared? They are not in the same product class or market.

The iPhone is somewhat difficult to peg. It is essentially a PDA (but no unauthorized 3rd party apps?), but is largely marketed as a multimedia device/cell phone (I got the impression it was being sold as iPod video/phone rather than a direct crackberry/windows mobile replacement) so comparing it to other multimedia/phone hybrids seems to be at least somewhat valid.

Re:WhaHuh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay, I'm all pro-choice on the phone market!

Re:WhaHuh?

[freedom_india]

So U claiming 2GB+64MB > 4GB???
Hmmm... i always thought our school system taught us bad math. I didn't know it was this bad.

Re:WhaHuh?

[paulkimchee]

HA! yes Megabyte?? iPhone - 4,000-8,000 MB of storage Upstage - 64MB - 2,000MB of storage I don't think you read correctly... it's a TRANSFLASH card... and they go up to 2GB.

Re:WhaHuh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is something wrong with your keyboard question mark

Maybe you are using some kind of voice recognition comma and need to adjust your settings period

smiley face

Re:WhaHuh?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, the comparison for the UpStage isn't the iPhone at all. It's more appropriate to compare to the Motorola iTunes phones and the LG Chocolate.

Samsung has some other phone that has a full-size touchscreen that slides up to reveal a qwerty keyboard, and I think is a smartphone. That's the phone that should be compared to the iPhone.

Re:WhaHuh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you aren't suggesting the unreleased iPhone doesn't deserve the same rights and privileges as released phones? It is a potential widescreen iPod and potential internet navigator, even a potential phone. This is important enough to explain my logic. I will vote for the candidate that treats unreleased products equally or better than released ones. The technology god says so.

Re:WhaHuh?

[steveo777]

iPhone: 4GigaBytes
Upstage: 2GigaBytes + 64MegaByes = 264GigaMegaBytes

I see no flaw with this math.

Re:WhaHuh?

[typicallyterrific]

Shouldn't it be coat hanger shaped then?

Meh.

[L4m3rthanyou]

Normally I'd recommend the "owned" tag, but given the general sensibility of customers (or rather, lack thereof), whether it will succeed long-term against the iphone is anyone's guess. I think it'll sell in the beginning for sure, especially if it comes out before the iphone. Samsung makes good phones, and the Upstage sounds cool in its own right. However, as the iphone price comes down after a few months, who knows.

Not exactly in the same league

[edwardpickman]

It's impossible to compare the two. Out of the gate the screen size is nothing like the iPhone and the features and system don't compare. Smaller isn't always better. Remember the old calculators on pens? How many weeks did those last. It's another smart phone not an iPhone killer. Love it or hate it iPhone isn't like other phones on the market so they are tough to accurately compare. In another release or two the differences should get a lot more obvious.

Re:Not exactly in the same league

[Mattsson]

It is impossible to make an Iphone killer since it hasn't been release yet.
I is also impossible to compare it to other phones on the market since it isn't on the market yet.
When I can stand in a shop and actually try it out, *then* I can compare it to other phones on the market.
Paper-specs, pictures and flash-animations are worthless when it comes to deciding if a device is any good or not.

Already Obsolete

[bmo]

The blurb in the ad says that it's upgradable to 2GB.

Sorry, but the new SD cards are 4GB. Devices that max out at 2GB don't even see that the card exists.

A coworker bought one to stuff in his smartphone. He should have read the fine print.

--
BMO

Re:Already Obsolete

[Geekner]

It is hard to find high capacity SD cards that work in most devices. First, most devices have restrictions like filesystems and older SD specifications for the card reader. Only revised SD specs support 4GB cards. Even worse, there are new SDHC (Secure digital high capacity) cards, special cards that use a completely different filesystem and make it even harder to find the right card for your device. For example, while looking for a card for my palm tx, palm's website stated a max of 2gb for SD cards. It turned out, since the TX has support for fat32, you can use non-SDHC 4gb cards without issues (possibly goes for trio phones too). Some devices don't support fat32 at all, so they must use 2gb cards with fat16. Even worse, older devices use early SD specifications, which do not support 2gb at all. Its quite a mess, but overall I still like SD cards over the other types of memory I have tried. I just wish more MP3 players supported full size SD, the sansa players I have seen only support miniSD.

Re:Already Obsolete

[mgblst]

It is not really your work mates fault, it can be tricky trying to find out how much your devices will support (some only support 1gb, some 2gb, some 8 gb, some less) Even the product information page at Sandisk is incomplete.

Re:Already Obsolete

[RedBear]

The blurb in the ad says that it's upgradable to 2GB.

Sorry, but the new SD cards are 4GB. Devices that max out at 2GB don't even see that the card exists.

A coworker bought one to stuff in his smartphone. He should have read the fine print.

Everyone in this thread so far has apparently failed to notice that MicroSD is not the same as the regular SD card format. And MicroSD only comes in up to 2gb so far. 4gb is probably a ways away since SDHC cards have only recently reached 4gb. Even MiniSD maxes out at 2gb right now.

Isn't it great having ten million different card formats?

Re:Already Obsolete

[bazorg]

Sorry, but the new SD cards are 4GB. Devices that max out at 2GB don't even see that the card exists.

according to TFM my Creative Labs Muvo C100 is limited to 256MB cards. I must be a really lucky guy since I have it working flawlessly with 512 and 1024MB cards for more than a year now.

Re:Already Obsolete

[glesga_kiss]

A ROM upgrade should enable the 4gb limit on most devices. Most high-tech media/phone device owners should be used to the occasional upgrade.

Re:Already Obsolete

[Anonymous Coward]

but i didnt get an iChoice?

okay i wont start with prochoice/prolife

Your 2 cts?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two cardboard-tube samurai?!

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

Yes, yes...

[supersocialist]

We all moan for new phones.

One word:

[Goatboy]

Ugly.

How can you compare something that looks like a cellphone and an mp3 player stuck together back to back with something as undeniably sleek and well-designed as the iPhone?

C'mon cell phone manufacturers, it's not that hard, hire some designers can actually design something that looks good and is functional - this is all that Apple does, it really is as simple as that; they've proven that people will pay extra for something that is beautiful and 'just works'

To paraphrase Ballmer: "Designers! Designers! Designers!"

Re:One word:

[Ed Mooring]

"C'mon cell phone manufacturers, it's not that hard, hire some designers can actually design something that looks good and is functional - this is all that Apple does, it really is as simple as that; they've proven that people will pay extra for something that is beautiful and 'just works'"

It actually is that hard. You don't just go out and hire a designer. You need to spend time and money figuring out what people want so your brilliant designer can make something that is "beautiful and 'just works'".
PHBs don't understand this, so you get something that the PHB thinks that other people think is cool. Unfortunately PHBs aren't cool, and rarely ever get it.

Re:One word:

[kjart]

Ugly.

Some people don't judge things based on appearance. Attractive does not necessarily mean usable and ugly does not necessarily mean unusable. My old blackberry was significantly more easy to use than my current Windows Mobile phone but it doesn't look nearly as nice.

Re:One word:

[Anonymous Coward]

Good call. You stick to boning the fatties, and I'll stick to penetrating the hot ones.

Re:One word:

[Anonymous Coward]

My old blackberry was significantly more easy [sic] to use than my current Windows Mobile phone but it doesn't look nearly as nice.

Your sentence structure is severely lacking. Are you saying that your old Blackberry was ugly and worked well, while your new Windows Mobile phone is much nicer looking but doesn't work as well? If so, why did you get rid of the Blackberry...? And, what was the point of your post (since you seem to have taken style over functionality)?

Re:One word:

[rizzo420]

you try dialing one handed without looking at the screen on your iphone, while i dial one handed without looking at the keypad on my ugly LG VX6100. we'll see whose phone is more usable. looks aren't everything with phones. apple is entering a market they have not tried before and are completely changing the design of the phone. the iphone, from what i can tell is not for people who want a functional phone. it's for people who want a toy and nothing more. i predict it will be a quite difficult to use phone, but a pretty and very expensive mp3 player.

Re:One word:

[kjart]

Your sentence structure is severely lacking. Are you saying that your old Blackberry was ugly and worked well, while your new Windows Mobile phone is much nicer looking but doesn't work as well? If so, why did you get rid of the Blackberry...? And, what was the point of your post (since you seem to have taken style over functionality)?

Yes, that is what I was saying, but I didn't choose the Windows mobile device - both were from work and we "upgraded". If it was my choice I would go back to the blackberry.

I simply don't understand ...

[TheRealNecator]

Why is the iPhone the reference?
1) It even isn't there yet.
2) Most of those fancy Windows Mobile (and versions before) were touchscreen only bar like phones ... what is the new thing about that iPhone -- except, that you are not allowed to use your own software?

So, may somebody tell me the great thing about the iPhone, besides that it is from Apple?

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[wopie]

This article explains why iPhone will be great and is different.

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/blogs/index.cfm?blogid=2 &entryid=233

"The iPhone's relevance lies not in its convergence of phone and iPod or even the mobilization of OS X, but that it's the first-ever, mass-market computer with a third-generation UI."

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[blankaBrew]

Objective Features that are Unique
-Visual Voicemail
-Real Web Access (i.e. not crippled/web clippings)
-Large Memory (4Gig and 8Gig Versions)


Subjective Features that are Unique
-User Interface (This includes Multi-Touch, Hi Res Graphics and the Accellerometer)
-The Best iPod (based on Interface)
-Easy and Powerful Syncing with your Desktop Computer
-The Best PhotoViewer app on a phone


These features are important and unique... that's the source of the buzz.

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[Nursie]

What's visual voice mail? Video voice mail? So downloading videos... That's a network feature.

Real web access has been around on windows smartphones for years and I have Opera on my Nokia N73. If you lot in the US haven't got real web access it's the network's fault.

Many phones have 4 gig capacity now, with memory cards.

I don't know about the UI, I don't care about iPods, lots of phones sync nice and easily and many, many phones have photo apps.

The iPhone is nothing new. Really. But we're going to see the same mp3 player phenomenon again aren't we - The tech and the devices are around for ages. Apple comes along and makes it slightly shinier and everyone credits them with inventing the whole damned thing.

I for one am not impressed with any of it.

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[glesga_kiss]

"The iPhone's relevance lies not in its convergence of phone and iPod or even the mobilization of OS X, but that it's the first-ever, mass-market computer with a third-generation UI."

HOUSE!! Do I win buzzword-bingo? :-)

That statement is worthless. "mobilization of OS X", what is so special about that over the dozen existing embedded platforms? They are saying an unreleased OS which they know nothing about is better than one with 5-10 years of evolution?

"convergence of phone and iPod". Welcome to 2004, I had a clone iPod media player on my phone back then. I didn't use it at all, there were far better (free) media players available. With the iPhone, you can't change anything like that, so you'd better pray that what they give you is decent. If I don't like anything on my phone, I can whip out the dev kit and change it.

"first-ever, mass-market computer with a third-generation UI.". Define "third-generation UI" and what it means to me. And do this with a straight face while explaining that it's the first phone interface that Apple has designed.

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[blankaBrew]

What's visual voice mail? Video voice mail? So downloading videos... That's a network feature.

Maybe you could bother to understand what something is before dismissing it as irrelevant. It is clear that you have no clue what is visual voicemail. It is a visual way to view and interact with your voicemails...similar to the way you would interact with your emails. Thus, you can listen to any voicemail in any order, as you can view any email in any order and know who them are from. For me, (someone who gets lots of voicemails while unavailable and dreads to go through all of them) this is a killer feature.

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[shagoth]

So visual voicemail is a totally inaccurate and nonmeaningful way to refer to this feature of THE NETWORK!

It's random access voicemail. Referring to it this way takes it from voicemail with buddy icons to being clearly what you mean. As for the feature, it's some iPhone software but a major infrastructure change in the network. I expect that it's been in the works for a while at Cingular and iPhone gets to be the first device to support it. I would be stunned if the feature isn't available on other devices over the 18 months following the actual launch of the iPhone and resultant small voluntary group of feature beta testers.

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[blankaBrew]

This thread was about the features and value of the iPhone. I would say referring to visual voicemail as a feature of the Network and not a feature of the phone is disingenuous. First, Apple developed it and negotiated to have Cingular/AT&T modify their network to use the new feature. To implement visual voicemail requires software on the phone, along with a network that provides the service. However, irrespective of whether the "credit" goes more to the network or the phone, I call it a feature when one phone can do something that no other phone can do. Only the iPhone will have visual voicemail. Don't try to tell me that it's not a feature because others will implement it eventually. That can be said of any feature. Finally, Apple was quick to point out that the iPhone is protected by over 200 patents. Don't be surprised to find that this covers visual voicemail; one of the most compelling features of the phone.

So, don't be so quick to discount visual voicemail and say that it offers no compelling reason to purchase an iPhone over another competing phone.

Re:I simply don't understand ...

[Too Many Secrets]

You're joking right? You realize apple just put unified messaging on a cell phone. Random Access/Visual access to voicemail has been available for over ten years commercially.

two sided phone, already been done

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember the Communicator range from nokia, it has two sides, a plain phone when closed and the smart phone when opened, and it still sucked!

Killer...

[evilviper]

Why don't we just start calling every cell phone an "iPhone Killer" right now, instead of building up to it for months...

I'm sick of the Apple pop cliche. If you want to build a phone, good for you, Apple need not enter into it. Constantly comparing your products to Apple's, will only help Apple out-sell you, and not for reasons of technical superiority, either. Trends just work that way...

And if you want to make a damn good product, a half-assed job copying a handful of individual features isn't going to do it. Doing it with 5 different product lines every year isn't going to help (the iPod practically hasn't changed in the years since its introduction). Such gimmicky tricks hurt in the long run.

Did they even think about HCI?

[AndyboyH]

The idea of constantly turning over an item to achieve separation of functionality just makes me wonder whether it's an MP3 player glued onto a phone and firmware hacks to achieve comms between the two...

Who will be turning between the front and back to use it? That must be a very uncomfortable way to do things if you're flitting between phone and MP3 player.
Why have 2 screens on opposing sides (before anyone makes the comparison - it's not a DS - they can't both face you at the same time) when you could cut costs and make a better product by using one?

Adventurous design - yes. Thoughtless design? Probably. :(

Re:Did they even think about HCI?

[mgabrys_sf]

Yes. I think with some duct-tape you could pretty much make any phone as multi-feature as that AND look stylish.

Hey - anyone want to see my phone-microwave oven?

Re:Did they even think about HCI?

[AndyboyH]

heh, if you think the upstage is stylish and feature packed, I've got some flares with combat trouser pockets and a wife-beater with knitted bandolier to sell you. :P

Re:Did they even think about HCI?

[mgabrys_sf]

That sound wooshing by your scalp was the joke.

Ugh.

[tinrobot]

I really don't want to turn the phone over to access the other half of the functionality.

What interface guru thought that up?

Re:Ugh.

[mgblst]

You don't have to, just carry a mirror with you everywhere you go, and strategically place it when you want to see the other side. See, samsung thought of everything.

Samsung have been doing this for while with there phones, just realeasing a huge pile of phones, and hope that some of them stick. I see it as more as a prototype production house, than an actual sales giant. If anyone at Samsung gets a new idea (good or not), bam, a new phone. I think they are just trying to release as many products as possible, in the hope of getting 90% of the shelf space available.

Lacks true dedication

[SuperKendall]

More fingerprints than, say, a device that relies entirely on touching the screen (iPhone)? I don't think so. Also, based on the information here, the buttons for the media side are touch=sensitive, and not the screen (I'm guessing there is an on/off switch for that side? shrug).

Yes, more fingerprints (or at least smudging) because when you hold a phone your palm will be in constant contact with the media screen, as opposed to brief presses around the screen here and there.

In any case, this seems far less confusing than having everything integrated together. You'll basically have one side dedicated to basic phone functions and the other dedicated to multimedia.

Read the description, that is not really the case. Want to search for a song? You have to flip it over to use the keypad. So really what it ends up being is a media device with a screen on one side and a keypad for controlling it on the other, and software that tells you to fli pthe phone when it needs input. That does not sound at all usable to me, no other device maker has decided to solve the "cannot fit keyboard and screen in same space" problem by putting the keyboard opposite the display.

To me it seems overly expensive for what it is, when for just $200 more you can get, well, an iPhone.

Re:Lacks true dedication

[kjart]

Read the description, that is not really the case. Want to search for a song? You have to flip it over to use the keypad. So really what it ends up being is a media device with a screen on one side and a keypad for controlling it on the other, and software that tells you to fli pthe phone when it needs input. That does not sound at all usable to me, no other device maker has decided to solve the "cannot fit keyboard and screen in same space" problem by putting the keyboard opposite the display.

To me it seems overly expensive for what it is, when for just $200 more you can get, well, an iPhone.

I think you are minimizing the fingerprint issue with the iPhone (there is no stylus, no real buttons - _everything_ is accomplished video touching the screen, i.e. generating fingerprints), but point taken for the interface - that does seem fairly clunky. I like the concept of this, mainly because I'm tired of touchscreens for phones, but it looks like it may not be implemented too well.

Oh, and I smile whenever people talk about the iPhone as if you could buy one now (people have been doing it since the announcement!).

Re:Lacks true dedication

[dwater]

> To me it seems overly expensive for what it is, when for just $200 more you can get, well, an iPhone.

$200 is a lot to some people...

Re:Lacks true dedication

[sammy baby]

To me it seems overly expensive for what it is, when for just $200 more you can get, well, an iPhone.

"Just" $200 more?

Let me rewrite that sentence for you...

To me it seems overly expensive for what it is, when for more than twice the price you can get, well, an iPhone.

There.

Re:Lacks true dedication

[gibodean]

Want to search for a song? You have to flip it over to use the keypad.

Funny. I've got an Ipod, and I don't have a keypad at all. I manage.

Re:Lacks true dedication

[bkr1_2k]

Uh, $200 more than $300 isn't "more than twice the price". Did I miss something?

Re:Lacks true dedication

[sammy baby]

It's only $150 with contract, which is how I assume most people will wind up buying the phone.

The iPhone is listed as being $499 or $599, depending on the model. The iPhone will only be available bundled with a contract.

So depending on which model iPhone you compare it with, it's either one-third or one-quarter the price.

Re:Lacks true dedication

[bkr1_2k]

Gotcha. That however compares apples (no pun intended) and oranges. You can't buy an iPhone with a contract to get a reduced price. In order to make a valid [price] comparison you have to compare the closest matching models and availabilities, which would assume no contract on the samsung and a 4gb card, assuming it will support one, against the 4gb iPhone. At that comparison, the iPhone is not double, and certainly not quadruple the price of the samsung.

Re:Lacks true dedication

[sammy baby]

Reread my post. The pricing I cited was for an iPhone with a 2 year contract from Cingular. Apple has stated that the phone won't be available at all without a contract, although that may be gamesmanship on their part.

Courtesy of The Consumerist:

Will it be possible to buy the iPhone without a Cingular contract? Cingular said no, but a tipster says yes, and it will be crazy expensive:

As a employee of a company I cannot mention but that sells the majority of cingular phones that are sold in this country. I can tell this to you in hopes of you passing it on to all my die hard mac loving brothers. The iPhone will be available without a contract, that is if it comes to us via cingular. We will not have a product with at $$$ price tag that people are willing to outright buy on our shelves just sit on those shelves just because of "contracts". I'm not saying it won't be f&#*ing expensive but if it comes here it will be available. If not publicly at least in practice.

So any pricing you've heard for the iPhone is the pricing for the phone with contract, because no one has gone on record as saying that it will even be available at all without one.

I haven't bother checking on pricing for a 4 gig upgrade to the Samsung phone, but I'll stand by my statement that the closest comparison between the two phones makes the iPhone three times more expensive.

Re:Lacks true dedication

[bkr1_2k]

I stand corrected. I remembered this slashdot article incorrectly: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/26/ 1918239

So wow, it's even more expensive now than I thought it was. Good thing I wasn't planning on switching just for the iPhone.

stylus

[arcite]

But using a stylus is annoying. They are usually smaller than a pen or pencil so they are uncomfortable to use for long periods of time. And then what happens when you lose it? IMO iPhone uses a much better technology...human fingers.

Re:stylus

[Tingler]

How often do people lose a stylus? I have had a palm type device with me for the last 8 years. I have never lost a stylus.

Re:stylus

[Yold]

Most PDAs are true touchscreens (not like a wacom/tabletpc), so if the stylus gets lost you can use your fingers. If the iPhone doesn't have a stylus, i'd be interested to see how well the browser handles the clumsy input from human fingers, I know it is the only time I actually use the stylus for my pda-phone.

Title tried too hard...

[choseph]

Regardless of the phone, article, summary, etc ... it feels really obvious that someone tried too hard to avoid "Samsung's UpStage Looks To upstage iPhone". Just go for it and be done with it.

Faster approval?

[ktappe]

The supposed reason we're waiting for the iPhone (at least for those of us who are waiting for it) is that Apple needed 5 months to get FCC approval for it. How are all these "iPhone killer" rivals getting their products to market faster? Sure, one could say "they started first" but when why don't we know about their products already? Apple seemed deathly afraid of not being able to keep their application secret, but it is said they could not keep it secret any longer once they submitted it to the FCC. This implies that if there is an "iPhone killer" out there, its application to the FCC is on file and all we need to do is check with the FCC or get a spy there to leak the info. N'est pas?

Re:Faster approval?

[llirik]

Maybe because it is based on existing platform, while Apple has to get approval for brand new platform?

Re:Faster approval?

[Dragonslicer]

Just a guess, but maybe because Samsung didn't feel the need to create a media circus around their new product? It's not like Samsung hasn't made phones before.

Re:Faster approval?

[noddyxoi]

Apple don't want people spending money with other phones, they want people to save money during 6 months to buy their stuff. That is why they announced it earlier.

Re:Faster approval?

[egomaniac]

Because it's not a secret that Samsung makes phones, and nobody is going to go shouting "OMFG SAMSUNG JUST GOT FCC APPROVAL FOR A NEW PHONE!!!!11!!11". Apple's development of the iPhone was (sort of) a secret, and thus the FCC approval would have been a dead giveaway. Plus there are a hell of a lot more folks slobbering over Apple's secret projects than most other companies' secret projects, so much higher likelihood of the FCC approval getting noticed in the first place.

samsung cripples their phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung intentionally cripples their phones so that one cannot load j2me java applications any way except 'over the air'. It's a transparent effort (successful) to force people to get data plans and pay carrier download charges - or not get full value out of the phone. It really sucks. They think the carriers are the customers - we are just there to be milked.

Re:samsung cripples their phones

[Mr2001]

So load your apps at night or on the weekend, when airtime is free. Doesn't Sprint let you do that?

Re:samsung cripples their phones

[calciphus]

Actually, if the phone has any kind of PC availably - USB cable, bluetooth push, whatever, you can copy it to the phone and run it just fine. I've never had a problem putting J2ME apps on Sprint phones, but I've only been selling their phones for three years.

Or, just pay the damned 3 cents and initiate a data call on the weekend. How do you put J2ME apps on your T-Mobile phones? Verizon?

Oh right....BREW.

Man, some people just want to complain for complaining's sake.

Re:samsung cripples their phones

[imbezol]

How about being able to put a damned app on the phone whenever the hell you want to without paying exorbitant prices.

GSM version review..

[Anonymous Coward]

In other parts of the world, this phone is known as the Samsung F300. Review, photos, and video of the GSM version is here.

I'm guessing the Sprint version is going to have a hacked up user interface. And of course, it will have a restrictive method of loading music into the phone.

Whatever happened

[chuckymonkey]

to using a phone to talk to people? I have a cell phone under protest and that's all I use it for. My camera takes better pictures and my mobile music player holds much more music and can be strapped to my arm. So why this insistance on making a phone a small computer. Some use it for work sure, and I don't get that really. Work stays at work for me, family is much more important.

Re:Whatever happened

[thetroll123]

>Work stays at work for me

That's inherent in flipping burgers for a living. There *is* a demand for smartphones, whether you like it or not - the fact that you personally have no use for one is a rather small sample on which to base the assumption that they're redundant.

Re:Whatever happened

[Zelos]

Damn, no mod points for a troll mod.

Re:Whatever happened

[tomstdenis]

There is a demand for smart phones from people who think they're super important and *think* they need to have connectivity at all moments. I saw enough of it when I was working for AMD. At the airports you'd see people flip out their BB's to read some email or whatever as soon as the plane touched the ground. Look, you're not that important. Chances are whatever mail you do have can wait till you get to your hotel or office. People just like playing "dress up" and act like what they think an adult/businessperson should act like.

I'm not against the idea of more useful phones. I just hate that people are wholesale willing to buy into anything that comes out on the market. Most phones are the result of amalgamated crap. 0.3MP cameras, slow processors, poor sound/music playback, limited storage, etc... While the features are getting more sophisticated it's happening wickedly too slow because they [samsung/nokia/motorola/etc] know they can drag their feet the entire way. Afterall, people will buy shit, so long as it's ever so slightly better than last years shit.

I'd rather just get decent but cheap phone, and pack an iPod with me then buy an expensive phone that has some limited mp3 playback functionality. My $160 canon camera takes 4MP pictures, can store them on my $50 2GB SD cards, and runs off plain AA batteries [re: no expensive battery packs]. If you add up the cost of my phone, ipod and camera, it costs about as much as the iPhone. But does each of their jobs so much better. Odd that.

Tom

Re:Whatever happened

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you're not important, that's no reason to assume the same of others.

Also, you're a moron, so no one really cares what you think.

Re:Whatever happened

[Erwos]

You know, this comment comes up every time there's an article about convergence devices, and it drives me crazy each time.

Some of like not having to carry a cell phone, a portable media player, a digital camera and a laptop around with us just to be functional on the go. No, some of us actually like having a single device that can make calls, check our email, send IMs, play music and video, do light web browsing, and take a picture in a pinch - even if it doesn't do these things as well as the individual discrete devices. I know this is hard for some to comprehend, but not hauling around 3-5 devices just to do daily tasks is a real benefit to the more mobile among us, and might *gasp* be worth some trade-offs. If I have very specific needs (eg, I need to take high-quality photos, or do serious coding), I'll haul along another discrete device. This is not an "either/or" situation.

You answered your own damn question: some of us do indeed use it for work. Others like it for the convienience - I don't have to waste time in line at the supermarket if I can use my smartphone to multi-task. And, finally, some people are just gadget geeks and/or love technology - this is Slashdot, remember? No sin in that.

And your pontificating about "family" is equally off-base, as though people packing these devices somehow neglect their families intrinsically by doing so. I use my smartphone to IM my wife on her way back from work, or send her a quick email about our plans for the night. If anything, getting us smartphones has kept us more in touch, not less. Don't blame technology for the constant disintegration of modern families - blame a culture that puts work above everything else (amongst other things). The smartphone just happens to be something popular in that culture. It did not CREATE it.

I have no idea why a comment that boils down to "I don't have a use for it, so no one except lame people have a use for it" got modded up.

And that, sir, is the end of my rant. You meant well, but I had to disagree.

Re:Whatever happened

[glesga_kiss]

There is a demand for smart phones from people who think they're super important and *think* they need to have connectivity at all moments.

I'm not super important, but I use my smartphone all the time to stay in touch with friends. I use SMS, phone and email regularly, along with web browsing and IM. I'm one of those sending messages when you get off the plane. Mine generally read "see you in the pub" or "get the kettle on, home shortly".

I'd rather just get decent but cheap phone, and pack an iPod with me then buy an expensive phone that has some limited mp3 playback functionality. My $160 canon camera takes 4MP pictures, can store them on my $50 2GB SD cards, and runs off plain AA batteries [re: no expensive battery packs].

I see where you are coming from, but look at my situation. I have a phone and a camera that both take SD cards. The phone has WiFi and a VPN to my home network. I can pop the card out my camera, send the photos home and replace them with that new album I just downloaded. I only carry two types of batteries (AAs for the phone and two for my phone). That's it. The phone is charged by USB or mains and can be used as a USB Storage Device (no drivers required on any modern OS). I also have satnav, SSH (phone has qwerty) and a decent sync solution with my PC.

As for the cost, my smartphone was only 90 UKP with a 1 year contract. The camera is just a standard Canon one. The phone has a free (beer) devkit and you can install anything you want on it.

Re:Whatever happened

[Hadlock]

I'll probably end up buying this phone as a "just a phone" and probably never even load any music on to it, just because it's simply the right size. I don't need a whole lot, and this phone does calling and texting just fine. In fact if the phone only came with the 2 line display on the front, I'd buy that model over the one with the 100% higher chance of breaking a screen model. I agree that an MP3 player that doesn't sync with iTunes is retarded, so why bother putting one in a cell phone? Most likely to drive the price up for a phone that would otherwise cost $150 or so. Hopefully the metal(?) case will make it last longer than my 3 year old nokia.

whats wrong with... Re:Whatever happened

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with reading a book, or listening to music, or getting IM using your phone? You have to carry it anyway - why not let it do a few things...it can be a nice 'generalist' device - without being a substitute for any particular specialist device.

verizon customers?

[Anonymous Coward]

ok so whats up with verizon they dont have a phone to compete?

Re:verizon customers?

[Too Many Secrets]

I dunno, I'm having trouble seeing the point of competing with it. The heavy duty/large PDA phone market is (mostly) used by people syncing with exchange and the like, so they put up with a large device that allows them office connectivity. If you don't have to do such a thing, why would you want to carry a phone that large around all day? I have a treo 700. It's great for my job, and helps me be more productive, but if I didn't work in tech, I wouldn't have it. I'd have a tiny little phone. As small as possible really. Verizon is said to have turned apple down, but in actuality I don't think they care. This phone is a fancy expensive razr or rokr. It will sell some units, but it won't become ubiquitous by any stretch of the imagination, so who really cares at the end of the day?

Urg

[grrrl]

Surely the screen sizes are the wrong way around?

My Ericsson T18 had a screen that big, and while you can certainly SMS with only two lines of text that was the good old days when we SMSd in the snow and liked it, or something. I think we are well past that now - seeing the entire message on the screen is a little more user-friendly.

For music though, you don't need as much space - the iPod nano only has 6 or 7 lines per page and is very usable.

Re:Urg

[ezzewezza]

I'm pretty sure only seeing two lines of your pictures and videos and such would be a little more annoying than only seeing two lines of your text message. But maybe that's just me.

Re:Urg

[grrrl]

Sure, that's a good point. But the seller is the phone + music player, not video/photo viewer (granted that is embedded somewhere in the marketing material).

I'd bet most people use their flash music player for music and not photos, and their phone for messaging... and taking photos, which granted is now on the 'music' side and I guess this is where the whole two screen thing gets confusing. I'd still like to be able to see what I'm typing, or reading.

My god that's going to be dreadful to use.

[bradavon]

My god that's going to be dreadful to use. Nice idea but completely impracticable.

Supports java too

[LarsWestergren]

Runs J2ME, so I can use one of the many open SSH implementations, GMaps, lots of great games etc.

Being more open and home brew friendly makes this much more attractive to me than the iPhone.

American Phones Suck

[paulkimchee]

I'm in Korea right now, and the technology that they put into phones is amazing. They've had DMB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Br oadcasting in their phones for about a year now... The cameras in their phones go up to 5 megapixels, broadband internet (WiBro)... they have tons of phones that trump the iPhone... hands down, but not in the US market. When Samsung exports phones to the US, we're getting phones that Korea had 2-3 years ago...

Re:American Phones Suck

[korbin_dallas]

Right, you want to see what the US cellphones don't want you to know.

http://www.phonescoop.com/

You'll see how Verizon hamstrung the Chocolate(LG 8500).
Buy your GSM phone direct then use Tmobile.

Samsung makes rubbish phones

[ikekrull]

After owning a Samsung 'Blade' A900 for a short time, I can't imagine this phone has any redeeming features whatsoever.

The A900's battery life was appallingly bad, you couldn't add words to the T9 dictionary, mp3 ringtones we limited to those you had to pay for (converting mp3 to AAC video was a hack, but i resent having to 'hack' this simple functionality) , interface was abyssmally bad, call quality was poor and the connectors were fiddly and poorly designed.

Basically, the worst piece of crap cellphone i've ever had the misfortune to use. I would recommend testing any samsung cellphone thoroughly before buying, as they certainly know how to build a lemon.

Re:Samsung makes rubbish phones

[Anonymous Coward]

I used an A900 for a year and a half, and I thought it was a great phone. I guess to each their own. For me the battery life was fine, the interface was leaps and bounds better than the Motorola it replaced, and I thought the LCD was fantastic.

Also, it was built much, much better than the Moto. The Samsung A900 survived bangs, drops, and slides without incident (the Moto was much worse off, broken antennae, scratches, case coming loose, hinge very loose). A neat trick to do with any Samsung clamshell: open it and lay it on a table face down, so the hinge is up in the air, and then bang on it nice and hard. No problem, they're designed to handle it.

Transparent buttons...

[Joce640k]

Much better would be little bumps on the screen which feel like buttons but you could see the screen underneath. The buttons could then display their function.

it's all marketing hype anyway

[nanosquid]

It's not clear what is supposed to be new or innovative about the iPhone anyway. Touch-screen only phones have been around for a couple of years. A slim touch-screen-only phone that's even slimmer and sexier than the iPhone had won design prizes months before the iPhone was even announced.

So, what's there to "upstage" anyway?

Cluster

[Morky]

A Beowulf cluster of these things couldn't upstage the iPhone.

Some contraditions

[brunes69]

First of all, the uPhone is expandable via MicroSD cards. The iPhone is not from any specs I have seen. Seeing how you can get a 2 GB MicroSD card now for under $50 I would be highly surprised if Sprint was not packaging this phone with AT LEAST 2 GB of memory when it finally comes out. It may in fact have 4 GB. And even if it does not unlike the iPhone, you can expand it to your heart's content.

Secondly, because there are actually TWO screens and ACTUAL BUTTONS FOR THE PHONE you don't need a large screen.

Realistically I think the parent has a good point, and is pointing out why the iPhone is going to fail.

The iPhone is not a good phone, because it doesn't have buttons - anyone who has a touch screen PDA phone now (me!) can tell you what a pain this is when making calls. No matter hoe well Apple makes the touch screen, it is not going to be tactile, so it's goig to be impossible to dial with your thumb while carrying groceries in one hand, and fumbling with your keys and phone in the other.

Also the iPhone is not a good PDA, because it does not have push email capability from Outlook, and it has no WiFi.

So what is it then? It is an overpriced iPod / Cell Phone love child, that no teenager can afford, and no adult will find useful.

I think Apple made two big mistakes with the iPhone. First, they make it too expensive. Second, no WiFi. If it was a bit cheaper, or it had WiFi, at least your business customers might jump on the bandwagon.

Re:Some contraditions

[dFaust]

Actually, the iPhone does have wifi (B/G)

Re:Some contraditions

[alanQuatermain]

Second, no WiFi. If it was a bit cheaper, or it had WiFi, at least your business customers might jump on the bandwagon.

You could do with checking the iPhone Product Page there. You'll notice that it does in fact boast WiFi support:

... you can read a web page while downloading your email in the background over Wi-Fi or EDGE.

I would imagine that the confusion here has arisen due to the lack of WiFi-based VoIP in the iPhone. But I'd expect that no carriers would agree to sell or work with the iPhone if it did cheap VoIP, so I had never given any credence to such rumours in the first place.

*shrugs*

-Q

Re:Some contraditions

[jpkunst]

Second, no WiFi.

It has WiFi: http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/wireless.ht ml

JP

Re:Some contraditions

[brunes69]

Well, all carriers sell Windows Mobile smartphones with WiFi, all of which can run Skype. So I think this is not a carrier issue as much as you would like to think.

From the article...

[kisielk]

Even when the music/multimedia side is activated, you will have to use the phone side whenever you need to input text--for example, to create a playlist, search the Sprint Store's music catalog, or specify a URL for a site you wish to visit in the small-screen-optimized browser.

I was a little confused the first time I encountered a text-input box on the music side, since no alphanumeric keys and no software keyboard appeared. But the device is smart enough to recognize the need to use the phone side, and I noticed that "Flip" had appeared on screen as a soft-key option.

When I used it and began entering text from the phone keypad (T9 text input mode is a welcome option here), "Save/Flip" also appeared as a soft-key option to return me seamlessly to the multimedia side. Ok, is it just me, or does that sound like it would get incredibly annoying to use? Why even allow text-input boxes on the music side if it requires flipping the phone over to the other side to input text? This device sounds like an absolutely confusing usability nightmare. No thanks... next please.

Infinitely better design than the iPhone or iPod

[argent]

On the music side, a conventional d-pad.

On the phone side, actual buttons.

This is a win-win situation. Oh, the "flip" business is gimmicky, and unnecessary... they could easily fit both interfaces on one side of the phone... but I can't see anyone sane buying the iPhone over this given a choice. My wife's got a similar Samsung phone (it seems almost identical on the phone side) and is very happy with it, and I'm seriously considering giving up my long-standing preference for Nokia and going with a Samsung for my next phone.

It's a pity they didn't think of this a few years back when they put the SPH up against the Treo and lost. With a real phone keypad and a full size display they'd have had a winner.

Of course in the US cellphone market nobody will get a choice. If you're not on Sprint you'll probably not have the option of getting the UpStage, and if you're not on AT&T Cingular you won't get the iPhone on the menu.

Re:Infinitely better design than the iPhone or iPo

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting the point on considering Samsung over Nokia, which I too always held as having the best user interface and menu system in the world of cell phones. I took the plunge though and tried a Samsung and found it to be much better than the Nokia in many ways. Their menu system is even better than Nokia and much quicker.And typically the Samsumgs have much more memory and trickery than any Nokia in the same class.

Two things I want in my new phone

[tsa]

WiFi and Skype. If it can't do that, I won't buy it. I'm only interested in calling cheap. That what a phone is for. Skype is the cheapest way I know to call people, provided they also have a Skype account.

Moo

[Chacham]

The UpStage trumped the iPhone, which killed the iPod, which replaced the Flight Data Recorder, which ...

2GB is not 2,000 songs

[gelfling]

Hmmm maybe 500 or so if you're lucky. Ok so 500 is pretty good but let's have a little truth in advertising.

Secondly, my $9 mp3 player has 1GB so let's not make a huge deal out of a whopping 2GB.

Third, the Samsung A900-MM has bluetooth anyway so you get mate it to wireless headphones, to your iPod now and have the phone interrupt the iPod, answer the call, hang up, resume the iPod.

Fourth, do you really want the screen on the back the phone where it's bound to get scratched?

Fifth, and this is based on being a long term 'customer' of Sprint; do we REALLY REALLY want to hand over all this device and service control to the phone company? Are you REALLY REALLY that happy with all of the wonderful things you phone company does for you, the level of wonderful customer service they provide and all of the transparency they they have on their 40 or 50 page monthly bills? How will you feel when you discover a whole bunch of crippled features and services that don't work as is typically the case?

Re:2GB is not 2,000 songs

[Anonymous Coward]

motorola v3 ringtone

Re:2GB is not 2,000 songs

[Anonymous Coward]

Great site, very informative. Was looking for some help teaching first aide and found your site. Will definetly use the pdf handouts with some modifications (for US) and tell others about this site. Thanks naked teens [url=http://nakedteens.blog-fx.com/]naked teens[/url]

4GB mini SD readily available

[RMH101]

http://www.mobymemory.com/miniSD_Memory_Cards.asp? PARTNER=GA_MINISD&gclid=CMD0nM78lIsCFQnclAod_1paSw - 30UKP, seems like a bargain to me...Also compatible with my HTC Wizard...

Re:4GB mini SD readily available

[Anonymous Coward]

while I am happy for you and your Wizard friend
this phone takes micro SD, which currently maxes out at 2GB

Music playing won't sell iPhone

[Oz0ne]

The iphone is a lot more about a phone that does everything very well, instead of just one aspect. For me, and most business people the MP3 feature is going to be completely unused. However, a better way to get at contacts, sync with your computer, pull up google maps, widgets, etc... now those valuable features to have on the road!

More than that though, I think Apple got it right on the core concept. No hardware interface, just a canvas that can be updated, change per application, etc, and no need for a clunky stylus. I think the only real competition for the iPhone once it gets established will be others adopting a touch technology, or licensing the multitouch.

Oh you mean last year's Samsung F300?

[saikou]

This is simply a CDMA version of an old Samsung F300 Ultra Music GSM phone. While form factor is new, music component in F300 is kinda bleh (and it was not positioned as iPhone competitor). I doubt this has changed in CDMA version.
But any new CDMA phone is good, given how few interesting phones are available.

Hey PCWorld!

[Yvan256]

It's called PHOTOS you morons!

Re:Hey PCWorld!

[imbezol]

I was thinking the exact same thing myself. It amazes me how often I read a news article on the net and there are no pictures. Grab a *($#ing brain and get with the millennium.

Re:Hey PCWorld!

[Yvan256]

I'm guessing they want to keep their precious bandwidth for the banners or something.

Me too.

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

But it needs to connect to the internet to make the call. Right now all of the unlimited data plans are more expensive as the regular monthly bundle, unless you make a ton and a half of calls( and yes you can measure call time by gross weight). there are some devices like the nokia internet appliance that is only a skype phone that rely on wifi or a blue tooth internet connection, but there isn't enough wifi coverage in my area to be practical.

Re:Infinitely better design than the iPhone or iPo

[danpsmith]

On the music side, a conventional d-pad. On the phone side, actual buttons. This is a win-win situation.

It's a shame that nearly all phones have a d-pad and numerical pad already and on one side, so WTF is the point of separating the two and putting them back to back, then requiring two screens, one of which is too small to be useable for a phone and then using it for the phone screen.

God damn this is bad design. When I watched the YouTube of the person playing with it it looked like one of the worst phones I've ever seen. And that makes sense. It's samsung. I had one of their phones fill up with garbage on the screen and then the display drained and never worked again. I bought an MP3 player of theirs with a battery back so poorly designed that after it was dropped once the battery constantly kept falling out the back resulting in play stoppage. They called their players "yepp", I say nope. They used proprietary software package to make transferring files to the player a pain in the ass and then never updated the software package. I will never buy another samsung product even if they do make up a great deal of the phone maker population.

Then there's this design. Why not just build the audio portion in as an applet that can be interrupted by calls and use the already existent directional pad that comes on most phones to control it like a "click wheel" or whatever they are trying to copy? It really chars my hide to see people make such essentially bad designs and have the gimmicks being passed off as cool or useful. There's no need for two screens here, just a need for one good design team. One that can already see what's available to them in the phone and design the phone to utilize that for multimedia capabilities. Whatever.

One word: lay off the kool-aid

[Anonymous Coward]

>hire some designers can actually design something that looks good and is functional

That touch screen LG phone that came out BEFORE the Apple one looks nice and sleek.

Oh wait... we've beeen programmed to forget things like that: http://www.pradaphonebylg.com/

Dont be a hypocrite: Compare oranges with oranges because without having seen either of them, the Prada has not only the look
but also the non-techie appeal. The pseudo snobs who buy Prada are as annoying as the the ones who pimp Apple but LG was smart to hook up with a name WOMEN can relate to.

Re:Infinitely better design than the iPhone or iPo

[argent]

WTF is the point of separating the two and putting them back to back [...]

The flip schtick is gimmicky, and I agree that it would be better to stick everything on one side. The point is that this is still infinitely better than having no buttons at all.

It really chars my hide to see people make such essentially bad designs and have the gimmicks being passed off as cool or useful.

That's exactly how I feel aboutthe iPod and iPhone.

Re:Infinitely better design than the iPhone or iPo

[argent]

My last two Nokia phones were the old melted-soap-bar style, with a honking big battery and great performance as a phone... and a minimum of extraneous features. I actually wanted an older model with fewer features, but I couldn't get it, so I compromised on this one. I'm sorry I did, now.

Kinda like the automobile market

[Cthefuture]

It's a very similar situation to what auto manufacturers have to deal with. There are a lot of cool cars outside the US but we don't get them because it's hard to meet all the US regulations.

It's a double edged sword. On the one hand the US regulations protect the various interested parties (FCC, amateur radio operators, TV/radio/cable companies, safety regulations, etc.) but it also makes it hard for a company to just throw something together and release it like they do in other countries.

The rules are not always correct or easy to deal with but many of them protect the little guys. As a amateur radio operator myself I wouldn't want companies to be able to just throw together a phone and release it without passing the emissions regulations that at least attempt to keep my little section of airwaves clear of interference. I also want them to do proper testing and pass safety regulations that keep the thing from melting down in my hand and exploding (or whatever, you get idea).

Get a T-Mobile Dash

[grahamsz]

Their data network is a little sluggish when running skype, but it works fine when you are in a Wifi area.

I call vaporware and BS until they release a photo

[Wolfier]

I also have made an iPhone killer in my basement. Sorry, I'm not releasing any picture of it yet.

Doesn't even compare

[tsalaroth]

Except this new device doesn't even compare to what Apple claims the iPhone can do - not by a long shot.

The new phone uses an SD card for its whopping(!) 64MB of storage space. It also runs that crappy OS that Samsung/Sprint likes to put on their phones.

Whereas the iPhone has 4GB (and I believe an 8GB model is in the works?), runs MacOS X, plays wide-screen video, has a multi-touch display, is quad-band, supports EDGE, supports WiFi, etc.

How is this looking "Trump" the iPhone? Dear lord, this is like comparing a Yugo to a Lamborghini. It just DOESN'T compare.

Problem?

[3on3]

If it is in(wow, four straight 2 letter words:P) your pocket whats gonna stop it from doing stuff? Maybe they will make a clamshell case for it.

Samsung Help Desk

[Gary W. Longsine]

I hope Samsung has a good Help Desk because the interface is confusing. "I answered a call like you showed me, but then my music went away! Where did my music go?" :-)

Micro != Mini

[Nazmun]

Micro-sd is actually smaller then mini-sd's. I'm not sure why we NEEDED an inbetween format but it exists and it's not the same as micro.

You sure this isn't a joke?

[Merkuri22]

I feel like the name, "UpStage" and the release date of April 1 just screams "April Fools joke." The article looks too long to be a gag, though.

No home-brew video though

[Anonymous Coward]

...just don't go thinking you're writing any JSR-135 apps on it.. Sprint locks down their video APIs to partners only. Same with location-based services, for the most part.

Then again, Jobs said nothing 3rd party will run on the iPhone at all, so at least it's better than that.

I hate those 176x220 screens.. At least go w/240x320..

The secret's out!

[SuperKendall]

Funny. I've got an Ipod, and I don't have a keypad at all. I manage.

You may want to let Samsung know then... They don't seem to realize it's possible. :-)

actually reallly Re:samsung cripples their phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you will find if you phone Samsung tech support and ask them they will say 'only over the air, it's not possible any other way', when I said 'that seems a bit misleading, you say it runs J2ME but you never mention this restriction' they said 'oh no it's not misleading, you just assumed....' Nice. Some Samsung phones models (the 'dragon fly' platform ones) have been hacked and with some elaborate rigmarole involving 2 programs to talk to the phone and 'secret' eng key sequences you can upload.

Here a lot of people don't have 'data plans' bundled so they don't have to option of 'just connecting when it's cheap' they have to sign up for some new plan. Kind of a pain when the device in your hand is built to do something but has been 'tweaked' to make sure you go through some turnstile to get at the functinality you paid for.

re BREW - do T-Mobile and Verizon only do BREW? or also do BREW?

So...

[invisik]

Which side do you set it down on? I can see needing to become intimately familiar with the key-lock feature everytime you set it down or put it in your pocket. That's annoying.

-m

Touchscreen phones == bad UI

[Civil_Disobedient]

Also, as you get into pure touchscreen devices (which the media side of this is) then the in-phone UI is crucial

I respectfully disagree. In fact, I'd suggest to you that a pure-touchscreen telephone will be a user-interface monstrosity because it will be practically impossible to accurately dial a phone number without requiring you to look at the screen. People are right to rail against this Samsung for requiring you to flip it over to operate it, but that's still not much different than the iPhone: you're still sitting there staring at a screen when you could be multitasking. Our fingers have sensors on the ends of them, you know? Electronic devices don't need to rely on the eyes for input!

Honestly, touch screens have taken the electronics world about twenty steps back in the usability department. My first Sony Walkman was more usable and practical than any iPod because I could operate its basic functions while it remained in my pocket. Same with the original Nokia "thick candy bar" cell phones. The numbers actually had some tactile feedback to remind you that, "Yes, Virginia, you just pressed a button."

You are agreeing with me

[SuperKendall]

I respectfully disagree. In fact, I'd suggest to you that a pure-touchscreen telephone will be a user-interface monstrosity

Thus you agree with my point that the most important aspect of an all-touch screen device is the UI to work it.

Deciding if Apple can pull off a good UI on such a device is a separate matter.

Personally I think they can - I have entered numbers in palm pilots before and it can be done well. I have also used the RAZR which has "real buttons" and it is bar none the worst numeric text entry device I have ever encountered. The ridges actually mislead your fingers as to where buttons are.