Circuit City and the American Dream

An anonymous reader writes "Circuit City said yesterday that it had fired 3,400 of its highest-paid sales staff — 8% of its employees — and will replace them with lower-paid workers. Sign On San Diego called this 'a risky strategy to cut costs that goes beyond the layoffs, buyouts and hiring freezes commonly used by struggling companies.' The fired workers have a chance to apply for lower-paying positions after a 10-week wait, the company said. Quoting a Circuit City spokesman: 'This is no reflection on job performance... We deeply regret the negative impact. Retail is extremely competitive, and if we're going to thrive and operate a successful company... we just have to control costs.' So: work hard, become the best in your field, and get fired so they can offer you a new job 10 weeks later at a lower salary."

Comments

You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Skyshadow]

"Work hard, become the best in your field..."

Yeah, sorry -- the folks working at Circuit City don't generally really qualify as being the "best in their field", unless you're defining the "field" as "people who work at Circuit City". Besides, Circuit City's not on commission anymore so you can't even argue that these folks were necessarily their top performers.

But let's accept for a moment the premise of this article. If these folks really are such great salesmen, this is opportunity knockin' at their door -- they can get better jobs at higher-end stores, they can start their own higher-end stores, they can get into selling something that has worthwhile commissions involved with it like software or cars or whatever. I mean, let's face it: Being the best sales associate at Circuit City is along the same lines as being the best cook at McDonald's. If that's where your vision ends, that's almost certainly where you belong.

That aside, what offends me most is that this thread is this horrific notion that we've devolved to a point where the meaning of the term "American dream" has mutated from 'boundless opportunity in the marketplace and the ability to move out of the economic class you were born into' to 'lifetime employment at Circuit City'.

Speaking only for myself, if that really were the case then I'd want no part of it.

The American Dream as I understand it is that when you get laid off from a shitty dead-end job you can go out and find or create something better if you have the drive and/or ability for it. And hey, if your lack the skills or the ambition to go out and work to better your situation, you can always reapply -- I'm sure that red shirt will fit just as well in ten weeks as it does now.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[ez76]

Besides, Circuit City's not on commission anymore so you can't even argue that these folks were necessarily their top performers.

Just because they're not paid for their performance doesn't mean their performance is not evaluated on the basis of sales.

The whole "don't worry, I'm not commission" line that Best Buy made famous is just that, a ploy to comfort the mark.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Pharmboy]

Then as a 40 something guy who has rode the rollercoaster of business (and done well) let me offer you one piece of advice: The only security you have is in what you can do. You will face layoffs, you will face hard times. If you keep increasing your skills, learning new skills, and improving yourself, then you are less likely to be the one to get laid off. And if you are, you will find it much easier to get a job.

The "constant layoffs" are not new to 2007, it has been going on for decades. The 80's had a bad reputation for the decade of greed for the same reason. Again, all you have is what you know you can do. No company will ever "give" you security.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[BalanceOfJudgement]

That aside, what offends me most is that this thread is this horrific notion that we've devolved to a point where the meaning of the term "American dream" has mutated from 'boundless opportunity in the marketplace and the ability to move out of the economic class you were born into' to 'lifetime employment at Circuit City'.

Speaking only for myself, if that really were the case then I'd want no part of it.

The American Dream as I understand it is that when you get laid off from a shitty dead-end job you can go out and find or create something better if you have the drive and/or ability for it. And hey, if your lack the skills or the ambition to go out and work to better your situation, you can always reapply -- I'm sure that red shirt will fit just as well in ten weeks as it does now.
--

While I appreciate your sentiment and agree that the 'American Dream' is MUCH more than lifelong employment at Circuit City, I'd like to offer an opposing view of what is going on here.

My view is basically this: The American Dream, as you defined (and which I think most Americans would agree with) - is crap. And this action on Circuit City's part only confirms that assertion. It's a lie we tell ourselves to take pride in something that is inherently destructive, something that while it seems good in theory, becomes nearly impossible in practice: Capitalism itself.

I have spent the better part of my life attempting to understand the intricacies of human nature, particularly with regard to how they influence our social systems (and thus, what the requirements of those social systems are) - and the one point that has always stuck with me is Capitalism itself.

It seems like such an ideal solution, doesn't it, the economic embodiment of freedom, the nearly boundless promise of free enterprise..

Except that when you make money the motivating factor for why you do things, the things that SHOULD motivate you as a human being in a human culture - cease to function. The RIAA's recent behavior (suing a 10 year old girl.. come on) eloquently demonstrates this assertion.

Oh certainly, money need not be the ONLY motivating factor, and for a long time it wasn't. But over time it becomes harder to justify taking a hit to the bottom line just because you care about your employees, doesn't it? Especially when your shareholders are harping on you to increase the stock's value. Especially when there are, at any given moment, dozens of lawsuits against companies for NOT fulfilling their obligations to shareholders.

And especially, when companies are so richly rewarded for their abuse of the human cultures in which they participate.

What I am getting at is this: Circuit City doesn't care one whit about the success of our civilization, and accordingly, the value of their employees as ANYTHING OTHER than "human resources" is essentially nil. There is no value in seeing them as people, because well, it makes them just slightly less profitable. Can't have that now.

No, society falls to shit, and the money-making business doesn't care.. because if the society fails, there's no need for money anyway, but so long as it exists, those with wealth hold all the cards.

Seeing people as human beings is a liability in a civilization that values wealth as much as we do.

Quoting Heinlein, "a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot."

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I read your post, and the first thing that sprang to my mind is that you haven't held a serious job yet.

Your vision of the american dream (the one I had before too) is the stereotypical Horatio Alger story that permeates the entire work culture of the United States, that can be summed up as: if you work hard, you will rise and get a better life. Unfortunately, and this is something that you learn as you get older and have been working for a while for one, more likely several companies, the Horatio Alger dream is just that, a dream. Yes it would be very nice if it was still true, but the reality is that very VERY few better their lives through hard work and perseverance. Very few people start out selling apples and end up millionaires, a-la rockefeller. What happens in reality is that most of the population toils to pays credit, and a sizeable part of the population toils just to make ends meet and stay off the street.

It's my opinion that the so-called american dream is mostly a myth implanted in people's minds early on in their lives to make them work harder for the same wage, constantly hoping for better days. The reality of America today is that the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class finds the "middle" slowly drifting to the bottom.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "leftist" who complains about social inequalities, I have nothing against people being rich, and I myself work hard to have a better future, but without much hope because unfortunately, the social elevator that would allow people to make their lives better through hard work is mostly out of order: most of America is inside the cabin frantically pushing the buttons, hoping that it will finally start to rise, and it doesn't. I think you'll come to realize this too one day.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[BalanceOfJudgement]

I meant to add this, because it alters the tone of my post somewhat, but of course Slashdot doesn't let you edit posts:

There are features of Capitalism which I do actually really like, and that I still think are workable. But since capitalism is a system we invented, we are consequently responsible for how we run it. The choices we make, the values we hold, influence how we build our civilization. We can choose to be responsible in our pursuit of value, or we can choose to cut every corner, cut every throat, in our grasp for wealth.

Currently, we are increasingly choosing the latter. It doesn't have to be that way. But Capitalism isn't an end in itself, and its purpose can ONLY BE to serve us.. but we have to make it do so. It's hard, to choose to give up wealth for values, but that isn't really a sacrifice, when we consider how much our values actually mean to us.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to be making that choice. Or we are, and what we're choosing really is this destructive.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

You will face layoffs, you will face hard times.

Sorry, no.

I work for the government. I'm a "civil servant". I make high 5 figures, and I'm not management. I'm a member of a union. I will not be fired / layed off / downsized / whatever.

Have a nice day.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[corbettw]

You're confusing the American Dream (being your own boss, owning your own home, having a wife that doesn't work and children in private school) with the French dream (lifelong employment at one employer). The two are completely irreconcilable.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[AndersOSU]

I agree with you ... to a point.

I'm in my mid twenties, and am constantly amazed at what people in my age range feel entitled to. I expect to work my way up, and don't expect any particular loyalty from my employer. Pension plan ha - that's a good one - now tell me about social security that cracks me up every time. On the flip side that they expect some long-term loyalty from me is really hilarious.

However, that circuit city feels that they can exercise their lack of loyalty so egregiously is disgusting. As soon as I read about this I decided not to spend another dime there - not that big a loss since the last three times I went in there prepared to throw money at them they made it so frustrating that I drove the extra 15 minutes to Best Buy (not exactly the savior of the little guy I know).

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[lord_mike]

There once was a time when people living in the richest country in the world had a reasonable expectation that they could share in that wealth as long as they worked hard and played by the rules. It's not an unfair "expectation". After all, the 50's era (a time that conservatives like yourself laud as being the American ideal) was a time where you could get a good job with great security and live well for the rest of your life. You would have health insurance, life inusrance, pension, the whole 9 yards. If someone brought that up today, they would be accused of being a communist, yet this era was considered the capitalist ideal--the idea of the American Dream came from this time period in history.

Even crappy retail jobs that are being derided on this site had these kind of benefits. A retail person COULD own a house, believe it or not... almost impossible today.

Of course, back then we had control over markets, imposed trade barriers, and the population had significant union representation. We also actually manufactured things, as opposed to today. Conservatives who want to go back to the 50's conveniently forget these facts.

But, it is irrelevant... at some point we became so jaded when these ideals were stripped from our society, that we now resent and try to bring down anyone who still has health insurance, union membership, or a pension plan. Instead of demanding more for ourselves, we are demanding less for everyone else--somehow it is better for everyone to be dragged down rather than lifting everyone up.

It's a little depressing that Americans have been so beaten down by the system that they are afraid to stand up for themselves. What's even sadder is that posters like yourself seem intent on cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It is no wonder that the United States of America is in such a bad state. It's time for America to rise up and demand the America Dream again. It is our birthright, but only if we stand up for it.

Thanks,

Mike

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry that your version of the American Dream relies on such a sense of entitlement.

And as a guy who turns 55 next week, I'm sorry that yours doesn't. If you work hard, you SHOULD BE entitled to the fruits of your labors.

If you're lazy, steal from your employer, go to work drunk, act like a total jerk to your fellow employees then you should lose your job. But to lose your job when the fat cat CEO earns five hundred times what you do so that the company can hire a replacement for you at a lower pay rate, well, that's just plain damned evil.

And for you, as a worker, to believe that this is in any way fair or equitable, or that your employer doesn't owe you a living for your labor, well, that's just plain retarded. If you believe that, you fucking deserve to lose your job.

It's time to quintuple the minimum wage, and then bring back the unions. Bullshit like Circut City never happened back when 75% of workers were unionized. Now that only 10% of us are in unions, they have us by the balls. And it's idiots like you who think it's the UNIONS that are evil that allow this bullshit to happen! Grow a fucking brain, moron.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[melchoir55]

Then as a 40 something guy who has rode the rollercoaster of business (and done well) let me offer you one piece of advice: The only security you have is in what you can do. You will face layoffs, you will face hard times. If you keep increasing your skills, learning new skills, and improving yourself, then you are less likely to be the one to get laid off. And if you are, you will find it much easier to get a job.

The "constant layoffs" are not new to 2007, it has been going on for decades. The 80's had a bad reputation for the decade of greed for the same reason. Again, all you have is what you know you can do. No company will ever "give" you security. One of the main points in this article is that the people who DID work hard and improve themselves were the ones who got laid off. Saying they [skilled workers] can just go get a better job elsewhere seems shortsighted since, if they could easily go get a better job, one would presume they'd have already done so.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[HikingStick]

I believe there is a couple key point to the American Dream that you (and many others) inadvertantly miss. First, the American Dream cannot be realized by most people if they are willing to work for someone else. The American Dream--time and again--has been realized by those who, for whatever reason, could not or would not allow themselves to be wage-slaves. They started cottage industries--some failed, and some succeeded. Those who succeeded saw the American Dream fulfilled. Those who did not succeed faced a choice--either try again (to achieve the Dream) or believe that the American Dream is a lie. There is a third choice for those who taste failure. Most accept it as the default option but they typically will not assent to it: the American Dream is real, but they reinvent it as being something different--having a modest wage, access to credit, and some luxuries that fit their preconceptions. For them, that is good enough.

The second point that is often missed when discussing the American Dream is what made it possible: something I will call the "American Spirit"--that we, as a people, are willing to reach out and give others a hand along the way. I, by no means, suggest that this spirit is unique to America, but I do believe that--at one time--the world would have been hard-pressed to find more of it per-capita than anywhere else in the world. Today, sadly, it is in decline. Up-and-comers demonstrated this spirit by giving good jobs to their employees, and by contributing to those in need. Socially responsible corporations, while tending to long-term profitability and short-term objectives, did this by having a sense of loyalty to those who helped build the corporation. If we, in America, have had any failure, it is in this second aspect--a failure of the American Spirit.

What disgusts me most about the Circuit City scenario (which is also played out in many other industries every day) is that these "artificial persons" (for what is a corporation if not a legally recognized entity under law?) have forsaken their responsibility to society in order to worship at the altar of profitability.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that businesses cannot take action to maintain their profitability--my degree is in business management and technology, so I understand the factors--but I would argue that it was a failure of management that brought them to this place. Had the leadership of Circuit City fully exercised their duty to their business, the could have stemmed this time years ago. Yes, I know many of you will scream "armchair quarterback" or "20/20 hindsight," but it was clear (to me, at least) that Circuit City expanded too aggressively, they did little to differentiate from their fierce competitors, and they never looked (successfully, at least) strategically at their industry and market trends. In other words: they should have seen this coming and made a minor course correction before they were thousands of miles at sea.

After reading the article today, and other recent news on Circuit City, I'm just glad I never accepted a position with them back in 1997. The American Dream is not holy writ that allows us each to pursue our interests at the expense of our neighbors. It is objectification of the notion that we all have the opportunity to reach toward a lofty goal--of establishing a place in this world, a good home for our families, adding stability to our communities, and having a (positive) impact on society along the way. Do all achieve this dream? No, but we can be part of it.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good points on both ends. It is very true that your skills are the only security you really have, but corporate culture really does need a change.
I love how all of the large retail business like this are always stressing "team work" and "family" to employees and expect employees to be devoted to the company when most of these same companies will ruin the lives of their employees the second it is 0.001% more profitable for them to do so.
I particularly love the occasional business article that pops up in which employers have the audacity to complain that new employees show no loyalty to their companies and aren't willing to invest in their jobs. Well, that's because we aren't all morons. Corporate culture set the tone and will now have to live with the results.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[L0rdJedi]

If you're lazy, steal from your employer, go to work drunk, act like a total jerk to your fellow employees then you should lose your job. But to lose your job when the fat cat CEO earns five hundred times what you do so that the company can hire a replacement for you at a lower pay rate, well, that's just plain damned evil.

You're right, it is evil. Hopefully this news will keep people from applying to Circuit City. I know I sure as hell would not want to work somewhere that's going to do something like this. With no one wanting to pickup those jobs, they'll just fall further and further until they've declared bankruptcy and closed down the whole chain. In fact, even if I wasn't one of the ones layed off, I'd definitely be looking for a new job now. Despite the stock price going up, this is going to prove to be disastrous for them. Hell, start a boycott if you want. They may sell some decent stuff, but they treat their employees like shit, so there's no reason to patronize them.

Hopefully people will remember this so that if the mere idea ever creeps into another CEO's head he'll forget about it instantly or risk losing his company.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[tthomas48]

Oh yeah, it's the unions fault. Is it still the unions fault? Is the fact that every single car GM builds is a fucking ugly piece of crap, with a gigantic plastic dashboard, no safety features, and no standard features the fault of the unions? I can only bear the "unions raise cost" argument so far. At some point GM and Ford have to build cars that people want to buy.
GM may be having problems because of pensions, but remember they made the promises in the first place. They could have invested to make sure they could pay out on those benefits, but instead they followed the modern corporate motto - "If you can no longer compete, buy some random crappy companies and increase your debtload". So they squandered money on investments that in no way made their automobile business more competitive as their market share dwindled. Ditto for Ford. Those are poorly run companies. They ran afoul of the unions and could no longer compete in labor, sure. But that was only one bad business decision among thousands. Having billions of dollars in medical and pension costs is only a problem if you aren't selling cars.

So what's your problem capitalist? Go sell some fucking cars and all your problems will go away.

Re:You have *got* to be kidding me.

[Frosty Piss]

I know that this was a huge oversimplification, but the concept remains. *Most* government programs are inefficient due to lack of competition. I want my government small, and to do what government is supposed to do...govern and get rid of these people: "I work for the government. I'm a "civil servant". I make high 5 figures, and I'm not management. I'm a member of a union. I will not be fired / layed off / downsized / whatever."

Why? You think it's conducive to team building and happy productive employees that get paid reasonably good wages to hold the possibility of layoffs a la corporate greed over their heads? I'm the original poster, and I'll tell you this: The agency I work for has very high standards, excellent employees, and is an all-around great place to work. This is good since we fly planes. It would be extremely hard to attract the quality of personnel that we have if we didn't offer an extremely stable employment environment. We rely on the continuity of experienced employees that don't have to worry about keeping an eye on the Help Wanted ads. All jobs should be like this, people would be a lot happier. With happiness comes productivity.

When I hear people bitch about the benefits that government employees enjoy, I think two things: Most wish they had those same benefits, and are jealous that they do not. The fact of the matter is, the reason that most people outside the rarefied air of the executive class don't have these benefits is corporate greed.

Don't blame government employees that they have it so good, blame corporate pigs that they screw their employees.

Will Circuit City get

[Recovering Hater]

what they want or what they deserve? I know if I worked there, I would hope I could find a better job before they could fire me and would be praying that hundreds of other employees would be doing the same. The next time you visit Circuit City just remember how they value their employees. If they can't be bothered to spend the money on quality help what does that imply about their attitude towards their cutomers.

Didn't they do this years ago?

[VeriTea]

I read an article several years back about how Circuit City fired all their highest-grossing commissioned salespeople to replace them with hourly workers. It must have been so successful they decided to try again.

Either that or they need the stock boost that comes from indiscriminately firing workers - Wall Street loves that.

The lowest of the low

[Jeffrey Baker]

The truth of the matter is that a Circuit City salesman performs a service to the public which is about on par with picking strawberries or washing cars. People who pick strawberries and wash cars make the minimum wage. These types of jobs are not intended to be long careers, they are supposed to put kids and part-timers to work. The stark truth of economics is that if you want a higher wage you have to do something more valuable. Try machining or engine repair.

It doesn't matter

[dafz1]

Circuit City is on it's last legs.

The CC stores I've been in have lots of empty shelves, especially in the home audio area. The center area is mostly CDs and DVDs. They had a decent selection of TVs, which, supposedly, are low margin items, so they're not going to be much help in keeping CC profitable.

UNIONIZE

[dukerobinson]

This sort of nonsense will continue in retail jobs (and everywhere else) until workers UNITE. There is no sense in taking this sort of abuse. Circuit City employees: your company does not care about you, if you want to receive something like fair compensation for your labor then you have to unite with your fellow employees.

The will become K-Mart

[ehaggis]

Poor employee morale and low pay create the a social petri dish for employee malaise and discontent. Customer service suffers. People stop shopping there. The company continues to lower prices and pay. A vicious cycle ensues. Soon they declare bankruptcy and blame on it everything except poor management decisions driven by short term bottom line numbers.

Re:Jumping the logical gap.

[Hoi Polloi]

Come on! Everyone knows that CEOs are equal in talent and skill to 400 regular employees. They are irreplaceable geniuses. No one could do their jobs for even a fraction of that. Even when they fail they deserve tens of millions of $. It has nothing to do with boards made up of CEOs from other companies who vote for the compensation packages and scratch each other's backs. Nothing.

Short Circuit City

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

"In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy."
--David Korten

Stupid management never suffers, only employees.

[Futurepower(R)]

"Not that crappy old Circuit City..."

This is just another chapter in an old story. The top management of Circuit City doesn't know what they are doing, so the company has trouble making money, but it is only the employees who suffer.

--
Is U.S. government violence a good in the world, or does violence just cause more violence?

Democracy?

[Infonaut]

"In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy."

What do employee/employer relationships at Best Buy have to do with democracy? Nobody has subverted representative government here. One particular corporate entity has made a business decision to cut labor costs by getting rid of some of its more highly-paid employees. There's no violation of contract, no usurpation of rights. There is no right to employment in the United States, and never has been.

Re:Democracy?

[K'Lyre]

Pursuit of Happiness. Not the Receipt of Happiness. Getting fired does not impinge on your so-called "right" to the "pursuit of happiness" (which is a line from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, and therefore is not binding in any way). It means you're free to pursue your happiness elsewhere.