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Circuit City and the American Dream

An anonymous reader writes "Circuit City said yesterday that it had fired 3,400 of its highest-paid sales staff — 8% of its employees — and will replace them with lower-paid workers. Sign On San Diego called this 'a risky strategy to cut costs that goes beyond the layoffs, buyouts and hiring freezes commonly used by struggling companies.' The fired workers have a chance to apply for lower-paying positions after a 10-week wait, the company said. Quoting a Circuit City spokesman: 'This is no reflection on job performance... We deeply regret the negative impact. Retail is extremely competitive, and if we're going to thrive and operate a successful company... we just have to control costs.' So: work hard, become the best in your field, and get fired so they can offer you a new job 10 weeks later at a lower salary."

25 of 835 comments (clear)

  1. You have *got* to be kidding me. by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Work hard, become the best in your field..."

    Yeah, sorry -- the folks working at Circuit City don't generally really qualify as being the "best in their field", unless you're defining the "field" as "people who work at Circuit City". Besides, Circuit City's not on commission anymore so you can't even argue that these folks were necessarily their top performers.

    But let's accept for a moment the premise of this article. If these folks really are such great salesmen, this is opportunity knockin' at their door -- they can get better jobs at higher-end stores, they can start their own higher-end stores, they can get into selling something that has worthwhile commissions involved with it like software or cars or whatever. I mean, let's face it: Being the best sales associate at Circuit City is along the same lines as being the best cook at McDonald's. If that's where your vision ends, that's almost certainly where you belong.

    That aside, what offends me most is that this thread is this horrific notion that we've devolved to a point where the meaning of the term "American dream" has mutated from 'boundless opportunity in the marketplace and the ability to move out of the economic class you were born into' to 'lifetime employment at Circuit City'.

    Speaking only for myself, if that really were the case then I'd want no part of it.

    The American Dream as I understand it is that when you get laid off from a shitty dead-end job you can go out and find or create something better if you have the drive and/or ability for it. And hey, if your lack the skills or the ambition to go out and work to better your situation, you can always reapply -- I'm sure that red shirt will fit just as well in ten weeks as it does now.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    1. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by ez76 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Besides, Circuit City's not on commission anymore so you can't even argue that these folks were necessarily their top performers.

      Just because they're not paid for their performance doesn't mean their performance is not evaluated on the basis of sales.

      The whole "don't worry, I'm not commission" line that Best Buy made famous is just that, a ploy to comfort the mark.

    2. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 5, Insightful


      That aside, what offends me most is that this thread is this horrific notion that we've devolved to a point where the meaning of the term "American dream" has mutated from 'boundless opportunity in the marketplace and the ability to move out of the economic class you were born into' to 'lifetime employment at Circuit City'.

      Speaking only for myself, if that really were the case then I'd want no part of it.

      The American Dream as I understand it is that when you get laid off from a shitty dead-end job you can go out and find or create something better if you have the drive and/or ability for it. And hey, if your lack the skills or the ambition to go out and work to better your situation, you can always reapply -- I'm sure that red shirt will fit just as well in ten weeks as it does now.
      --

      While I appreciate your sentiment and agree that the 'American Dream' is MUCH more than lifelong employment at Circuit City, I'd like to offer an opposing view of what is going on here.

      My view is basically this: The American Dream, as you defined (and which I think most Americans would agree with) - is crap. And this action on Circuit City's part only confirms that assertion. It's a lie we tell ourselves to take pride in something that is inherently destructive, something that while it seems good in theory, becomes nearly impossible in practice: Capitalism itself.

      I have spent the better part of my life attempting to understand the intricacies of human nature, particularly with regard to how they influence our social systems (and thus, what the requirements of those social systems are) - and the one point that has always stuck with me is Capitalism itself.

      It seems like such an ideal solution, doesn't it, the economic embodiment of freedom, the nearly boundless promise of free enterprise..

      Except that when you make money the motivating factor for why you do things, the things that SHOULD motivate you as a human being in a human culture - cease to function. The RIAA's recent behavior (suing a 10 year old girl.. come on) eloquently demonstrates this assertion.

      Oh certainly, money need not be the ONLY motivating factor, and for a long time it wasn't. But over time it becomes harder to justify taking a hit to the bottom line just because you care about your employees, doesn't it? Especially when your shareholders are harping on you to increase the stock's value. Especially when there are, at any given moment, dozens of lawsuits against companies for NOT fulfilling their obligations to shareholders.

      And especially, when companies are so richly rewarded for their abuse of the human cultures in which they participate.

      What I am getting at is this: Circuit City doesn't care one whit about the success of our civilization, and accordingly, the value of their employees as ANYTHING OTHER than "human resources" is essentially nil. There is no value in seeing them as people, because well, it makes them just slightly less profitable. Can't have that now.

      No, society falls to shit, and the money-making business doesn't care.. because if the society fails, there's no need for money anyway, but so long as it exists, those with wealth hold all the cards.

      Seeing people as human beings is a liability in a civilization that values wealth as much as we do.

      Quoting Heinlein, "a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot."
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    3. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I read your post, and the first thing that sprang to my mind is that you haven't held a serious job yet.

      Your vision of the american dream (the one I had before too) is the stereotypical Horatio Alger story that permeates the entire work culture of the United States, that can be summed up as: if you work hard, you will rise and get a better life. Unfortunately, and this is something that you learn as you get older and have been working for a while for one, more likely several companies, the Horatio Alger dream is just that, a dream. Yes it would be very nice if it was still true, but the reality is that very VERY few better their lives through hard work and perseverance. Very few people start out selling apples and end up millionaires, a-la rockefeller. What happens in reality is that most of the population toils to pays credit, and a sizeable part of the population toils just to make ends meet and stay off the street.

      It's my opinion that the so-called american dream is mostly a myth implanted in people's minds early on in their lives to make them work harder for the same wage, constantly hoping for better days. The reality of America today is that the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class finds the "middle" slowly drifting to the bottom.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "leftist" who complains about social inequalities, I have nothing against people being rich, and I myself work hard to have a better future, but without much hope because unfortunately, the social elevator that would allow people to make their lives better through hard work is mostly out of order: most of America is inside the cabin frantically pushing the buttons, hoping that it will finally start to rise, and it doesn't. I think you'll come to realize this too one day.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    4. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 5, Funny

      After ten weeks of watching cartoons and eating cocoa puffs, I might not want to go back.

    5. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You will face layoffs, you will face hard times.

      Sorry, no.

      I work for the government. I'm a "civil servant". I make high 5 figures, and I'm not management. I'm a member of a union. I will not be fired / layed off / downsized / whatever.

      Have a nice day.

    6. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by lord_mike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There once was a time when people living in the richest country in the world had a reasonable expectation that they could share in that wealth as long as they worked hard and played by the rules. It's not an unfair "expectation". After all, the 50's era (a time that conservatives like yourself laud as being the American ideal) was a time where you could get a good job with great security and live well for the rest of your life. You would have health insurance, life inusrance, pension, the whole 9 yards. If someone brought that up today, they would be accused of being a communist, yet this era was considered the capitalist ideal--the idea of the American Dream came from this time period in history.

      Even crappy retail jobs that are being derided on this site had these kind of benefits. A retail person COULD own a house, believe it or not... almost impossible today.

      Of course, back then we had control over markets, imposed trade barriers, and the population had significant union representation. We also actually manufactured things, as opposed to today. Conservatives who want to go back to the 50's conveniently forget these facts.

      But, it is irrelevant... at some point we became so jaded when these ideals were stripped from our society, that we now resent and try to bring down anyone who still has health insurance, union membership, or a pension plan. Instead of demanding more for ourselves, we are demanding less for everyone else--somehow it is better for everyone to be dragged down rather than lifting everyone up.

      It's a little depressing that Americans have been so beaten down by the system that they are afraid to stand up for themselves. What's even sadder is that posters like yourself seem intent on cutting off your nose to spite your face.

      It is no wonder that the United States of America is in such a bad state. It's time for America to rise up and demand the America Dream again. It is our birthright, but only if we stand up for it.

      Thanks,

      Mike

    7. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sorry that your version of the American Dream relies on such a sense of entitlement.

      And as a guy who turns 55 next week, I'm sorry that yours doesn't. If you work hard, you SHOULD BE entitled to the fruits of your labors.

      If you're lazy, steal from your employer, go to work drunk, act like a total jerk to your fellow employees then you should lose your job. But to lose your job when the fat cat CEO earns five hundred times what you do so that the company can hire a replacement for you at a lower pay rate, well, that's just plain damned evil.

      And for you, as a worker, to believe that this is in any way fair or equitable, or that your employer doesn't owe you a living for your labor, well, that's just plain retarded. If you believe that, you fucking deserve to lose your job.

      It's time to quintuple the minimum wage, and then bring back the unions. Bullshit like Circut City never happened back when 75% of workers were unionized. Now that only 10% of us are in unions, they have us by the balls. And it's idiots like you who think it's the UNIONS that are evil that allow this bullshit to happen! Grow a fucking brain, moron.

    8. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by melchoir55 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then as a 40 something guy who has rode the rollercoaster of business (and done well) let me offer you one piece of advice: The only security you have is in what you can do. You will face layoffs, you will face hard times. If you keep increasing your skills, learning new skills, and improving yourself, then you are less likely to be the one to get laid off. And if you are, you will find it much easier to get a job.

      The "constant layoffs" are not new to 2007, it has been going on for decades. The 80's had a bad reputation for the decade of greed for the same reason. Again, all you have is what you know you can do. No company will ever "give" you security. One of the main points in this article is that the people who DID work hard and improve themselves were the ones who got laid off. Saying they [skilled workers] can just go get a better job elsewhere seems shortsighted since, if they could easily go get a better job, one would presume they'd have already done so.
    9. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I recently suggested a solution to this dilemma based on someone's remark on that topic.

      Basically, someone should set up "stores" that don't make money on sales at all, but essentially just rent you access to the showroom so you can figure out what you need (and then perhaps rate the people there based on how informative they are -- like Slashdot) and then find the cheapest place online to get it (either using their computers there or just go home having a better idea of what you need). They would have no qualms about telling you, "ah, you don't need this stuff".

      Depending on the money needed to make it work, you could either run them for-profit or as a co-op where your "membership fee" is all or partly your service of working there part-time in a department you're already knowledgeable about. You help people find what computer they should get, and in return, old folks there teach you what gardening equipment you should get (for example).

    10. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good points on both ends. It is very true that your skills are the only security you really have, but corporate culture really does need a change.
      I love how all of the large retail business like this are always stressing "team work" and "family" to employees and expect employees to be devoted to the company when most of these same companies will ruin the lives of their employees the second it is 0.001% more profitable for them to do so.
      I particularly love the occasional business article that pops up in which employers have the audacity to complain that new employees show no loyalty to their companies and aren't willing to invest in their jobs. Well, that's because we aren't all morons. Corporate culture set the tone and will now have to live with the results.

    11. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wasn't trying to be funny :-/

    12. Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. by tthomas48 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh yeah, it's the unions fault. Is it still the unions fault? Is the fact that every single car GM builds is a fucking ugly piece of crap, with a gigantic plastic dashboard, no safety features, and no standard features the fault of the unions? I can only bear the "unions raise cost" argument so far. At some point GM and Ford have to build cars that people want to buy.
      GM may be having problems because of pensions, but remember they made the promises in the first place. They could have invested to make sure they could pay out on those benefits, but instead they followed the modern corporate motto - "If you can no longer compete, buy some random crappy companies and increase your debtload". So they squandered money on investments that in no way made their automobile business more competitive as their market share dwindled. Ditto for Ford. Those are poorly run companies. They ran afoul of the unions and could no longer compete in labor, sure. But that was only one bad business decision among thousands. Having billions of dollars in medical and pension costs is only a problem if you aren't selling cars.

      So what's your problem capitalist? Go sell some fucking cars and all your problems will go away.

  2. Will Circuit City get by Recovering+Hater · · Score: 5, Insightful

    what they want or what they deserve? I know if I worked there, I would hope I could find a better job before they could fire me and would be praying that hundreds of other employees would be doing the same. The next time you visit Circuit City just remember how they value their employees. If they can't be bothered to spend the money on quality help what does that imply about their attitude towards their cutomers.

    --
    My humor is probably your flamebait
  3. The lowest of the low by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The truth of the matter is that a Circuit City salesman performs a service to the public which is about on par with picking strawberries or washing cars. People who pick strawberries and wash cars make the minimum wage. These types of jobs are not intended to be long careers, they are supposed to put kids and part-timers to work. The stark truth of economics is that if you want a higher wage you have to do something more valuable. Try machining or engine repair.

  4. Parody by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 5, Funny

    Circuit City and the American Dream

    Business savvy decision allows new employees a chance at sales fame.

    Top business analysts have determined that a growing number of people have become "too wealthy for their own good", according to one high-ranking Wall Street spokesperson. "It is in the interest of the common good that we allow other, less priveleged folks, to have the opportunity to buy their own food and afford both rent and car payments."

    The dismissed workers, having reached their allowed quota of wealth, were given peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on their way out the door and told that they could reapply after their savings had been reduced to zero. While the average lifespan of a salesman's savings is about ten weeks, according to financial analysts, it was widely agreed that dismissed employees would not truly be eligible for reassignment until they had accumulated enough debt to prevent them from ever owning a house or car again.

    "These people were beginning to factor into systems that have long been the exclusive playgrounds of the rich and powerful. We simply could not allow them to tip the scales and upset the balance," said Circuit City spokesman Bill Cimino.

    --
    the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
  5. First boycott Best Buy, now Circuit City? by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What other large electronics chains are left that I can buy at? I don't want to support businesses who either cheat their customers (Best Buy) or who mistreat their employees (Wal-Mart, Circuit City.) I'm going to be running out of vendors, soon.

    Anyway, this reminds me of a friend of mine. He graduated from college with a degree in History. Yes, a rather un-saleable degree. So he lived on my couch for a few months after he graduated while he tried to find a job. The only job he could find was telephone credit card sales. Yes, he was *THAT* guy. Every day, he came home from his job, the first words out of his mouth were "I hate my job." What made it even worse is that he was *GOOD* at it. His second month there, he set a sales record. His third month, he broke that record. Then he got fired. Because he wasn't following the script to the letter.

    Now, if someone comes in, and, by *NOT* following the script to the letter (he did say all the parts that the law requires creditors to say,) sets sales records two months in a row (he got a plastic slinky with the company name on it in thanks,) shouldn't you have the OTHER people follow his lead, rather than fire him?

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  6. Have we learned NOTHING from Star Trek? by onkelonkel · · Score: 5, Funny

    You DO NOT want to be wearing the red shirt. Especially if you are on the away team.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  7. Re:Jumping the logical gap. by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come on! Everyone knows that CEOs are equal in talent and skill to 400 regular employees. They are irreplaceable geniuses. No one could do their jobs for even a fraction of that. Even when they fail they deserve tens of millions of $. It has nothing to do with boards made up of CEOs from other companies who vote for the compensation packages and scratch each other's backs. Nothing.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  8. Short Circuit City by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy."
    --David Korten

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  9. Get in line now, avoid the rush by Grashnak · · Score: 5, Funny

    The fired workers have a chance to apply for lower-paying positions after a 10-week wait, the company said. Wow, I'll bet there will be a lot of people taking them up on that generous offer... Oh wait, no there won't.

    Circuit City: You make too much money. You're fired.
    Dumbass Employee: What? Noooooooo! My PS3 comes in next week and I need the employee discount! I'll work for less!
    CC: Not good enough. First you must go without a paycheck for 10 weeks to prove you are worthy.
    DE: Aaaggghhhh! Okay, then what? I'll do anything.
    CC: Then you must crawl back here, and I do mean crawl, and beg for your job back at half your previous salary!
    DE: *sobbing* I'll do it!
    CC: Oh, and bring me a shrubbery.
    --
    Life needs more saving throws.
  10. Democracy? by Infonaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy."

    What do employee/employer relationships at Best Buy have to do with democracy? Nobody has subverted representative government here. One particular corporate entity has made a business decision to cut labor costs by getting rid of some of its more highly-paid employees. There's no violation of contract, no usurpation of rights. There is no right to employment in the United States, and never has been.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
    1. Re:Democracy? by K'Lyre · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pursuit of Happiness. Not the Receipt of Happiness. Getting fired does not impinge on your so-called "right" to the "pursuit of happiness" (which is a line from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, and therefore is not binding in any way). It means you're free to pursue your happiness elsewhere.

  11. A little insight by kick6 · · Score: 5, Informative

    During my time in college I worked for both Circuit City and Best Buy in the same town. Overall I think CC treated their employees better. Everyone wants to boycott CC for screwing their employees over but they're missing a few important bits of information on how things work there. I'll see if I can shed some light. When CC went from commission to non-commissoned sales they gave their old employees one HELL of a deal. They tallied up everything the employee had made in the previous year (including comissions) and made that their new hourly wage. We had people at our store making $19 dollars an hour because of this. $19 an hour........selling digital cameras. Compare this to the $9.50 an hour that someone who came in after the commission/non-commision switch, and you can easily see that there were a lot of SERIOUSLY overpaid sales staff. These people weren't necessarily the best salesman they were just the ones that had happened to have been around at the right time. So this is not a killer of the american dream. This is not a case of canning people who have worked their way up the sales ladder. This is merely cutting some bloat, getting the labor prices back down to reasonable levels. Having been an employee (one of the $9.50 ones) I can say: good for them! Some of the $19 an hour people were WORSE salesman than I was. Now they can possibly get to a situation where people get raises based on merit as opposed to not being able to afford to give ANYONE raises because you have emplyoees being paid twice what they're worth.

  12. Reminds me of a similar situation... by GuyMannDude · · Score: 5, Funny

    The fired workers have a chance to apply for lower-paying positions after a 10-week wait, the company said.

    However, that circuit city feels that they can exercise their lack of loyalty so egregiously is disgusting.

    Recently, my girlfriend dumped me but said I was encouraged to reapply for the position of "friend" instead. I told her that if she upgraded the offer to "friends with benefits" that we could consider that a severance package for my being so loyal to her. She told me rather sternly to take or leave her original offer.

    Bitch.

    GMD