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The Elite's Sour Side
Now that the news about Microsoft's Elite has had a chance to set in, there are a few objections being raised by commentators. That 120 gig hard drive (the really expensive one) is going to come pre-loaded with content; all well and good, but the content transfer cable and software is a bit odd. Additionally, there are serious objections being raised over the frustrations of early adopters. Despite the easy dismissal out of hand heard on Major Nelson's Wednesday podcast, it's not as easy for early 360 buyers to roll with the changes. "Current Xbox 360 owners, who can purchase a separate 120-gigabyte hard drive at a cost of $179, appear to be getting a raw deal. Not only are these early adopters stuck with an older model of the console that offers less in the way of high-definition support, but factor in the cost of a current premium Xbox 360 ($399) and the price of the larger hard drive and the figure is close to $600 dollars, far exceeding the Elite's retail price, due to be $479."
Like making sure they regret buying your product when they did.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Isn't this another way of announcing a price drop? That's happened before. Probably sweetens the deal and improves their positioning against the Wii and PS3.
So, the system has been out for like 1.5 years... The "Early Adopter" phase has come and gone. I picked one up last April and I wasn't an early adopter -then-. People are just being whiny.
Current Xbox 360 owners, who can purchase a separate 120-gigabyte hard drive at a cost of $179, appear to be getting a raw deal. Not only are these early adopters stuck with an older model of the console
So do the same complaints apply to Apple, when they release a new revision of the ipod every 12 months? What about Dell, when they release a new computer?
Are these people completely unfamiliar with the concept of purchasing goods and services?
Does Ford owe you a coupon because the new Taurus comes with more trunk space, which your year-old model lacks? Give me a break.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
.. is those bloody Thargoids. I don't want to turn on my console only to find myself transported into witch space surrounded by a billon octgonal spaceships. This stinks of sloppy design.
I for one would be pissed if I had a 360 and heard about this. I bought the DS right when it came out, and I've felt like an idiot since the DS lite came out.
As it is, this might be a great time to pick up a 360 Premium (or whatever the current 'best' model is) on the cheap. I don't want/need HDMI, as I don't plan on buying a 1080p TV any time soon, and I'll probably never fill the hard drive.
This also might be a ploy by MS to finally get all of the buggy first-run 360's off the shelves. Hopefully the Elite won't have the same drive issues the current ones do.
I am so mad at Microsoft for improving their product. The existing XBox 360 models are now useless. Sure, they play the same games the same way, but they are now 30% less fun because I know I don't have the best SKU.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
I modded my old playstation 2 so that i could put in my own hard drive and load burned games onto it.
i wonder how or if you could do the same thing with the 360...
This is what i've been afraid of for the last several years.
Several Years ago, the main reasoning behind buying/owning a console (aside from exclusives) was that consoles are universally consistent, so you don't have to mess with drivers, memory, or any other variance. A Playstation is a Playstation, and if it works on one playstation it should work on all playstations.
As consoles become more "computer-like", and with Microsoft already in their planned obsolence mindset of Windows, they're invalidating this entire argument by releasing significant "upgrades" to their existing platforms. While it seems innocent enough, how long will it be before a game comes out that requires the 120G drive? How long before they start releasing memory upgrades, HDMI upgrades (which they're already talking about), and more? Each time they're creating something new and eventually people will have to upgrade just to stay current, just like with current PC's.
The way I see it, It could go either way:
1) The upgrades become increasingly difficult to ignore (mandatory for new games) requiring people to upgrade, making more $$ for Microsoft (who hopefully is learning that OS design isn't all that profitable anymore) and they slowly convert the XBox into a "Family PC".
2) The upgrades start to drive away consumers as they find their console "too old" to play the latest Halo, and simply walk away.
http://www.yeraze.com http://www.vizworld.com
This strikes me as more about being obsessed with always having the latest and greatest than a real issue, grow up...
Here's what consumers need to learn:
;)
* Products get updated all the time.
The benefits of "buy now" versus "buy later" is the time between now and later in which you will own and enjoy your product. I remember buying Final Fantasy X for $55 and then seeing it in the Greatest Hits bin for $15 a year or two later. If you cry about it and the companies want to make you feel better, they won't do it by releasing something at a medium price like $35 forever, they'll do it by releasing it at the full $55 and never dropping MSRP. (At least those who got the 'tard pack can upgrade to a hard drive for the next difference in the price difference of Core versus Elite. It's not GREAT, but it's not a slap in the face, either.)
* What's top dog now won't be top dog later.
PC gamers have already figured this out. The fact that there are even "generations" of gaming consoles should have taught you this applies in the console world as well.
Here's what console companies need to learn:
* Newer, more premium products need to push existing prices down.
While it makes better sense for your bottom line, your base gets green with envy instead of less green by giving you money. Nintendo figured this one out already.
* Think about upgrade capacity.
Wouldn't it have been neat, instead, if you could take your existing 360 hard drive and piggy-back it to the new hard drive (like a daughterboard) and the drives would automatically move your contents and digital signatures to the new one and restore your old one to factory fresh? When I bought a new cell phone I set my old one to send all my contacts via infra red and set my new one to receive and it was quite nice to get it all done without a whole lot of pain. Nintendo tripped up on this with the WiFi being matched from the DS game to your DS's MAC / serial number, but they got it together on the Wii by using a standard and portable SD card for data transfer.
That said, with the said problems, if the Elite 360 is targeted for holdouts who don't already have a 360, it fails. I don't have a 360 but I've been waiting for lower noise/power consumption 65nm, HD-DVD, bigger HD, and HDMI and Elite represents only 1/2 of that. Oh, plus BLACK. Wee. Here's hoping for a Super Elite come Christmas for $399.
More Twoson than Cupertino
My understanding is that they priced the new hard drive based on the cost difference between the Elite and the Core package. $300 Core 360 + $179 120GB HD = $479 Elite 360. Ignoring the fact that they're not truly equal, it at least makes some sense.
It's not entirely fair, though, to claim that people who bought the Premium 360 are getting totally screwed, since after they've shelled out their $579 (not $600!), they've got two hard drives. ($400 Premium 360 + $179 120GB HD = $479 Elite 360 + $100 20GB HD).
The pricing is, at least, consistant.
As many Xbox 360 owners know, when you purchase something from Marketplace, it gets authorized to your gamertag and your console (not the hard drive). This means that if you replace the console but keep the hard drive, you'll need to be logged into Xbox Live to use any of that purchased content. Microsoft acknowledges the problem but hasn't provided a convenient solution for everyone yet.
Does anyone know what happens to people who have an Xbox 360, buy the Elite, and transfer the content from the old drive to the new? Does the content get re-authorized? If so, this would be a way for people to replace their broken Xbox 360s and still have all their content work offline.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Seriously, this is news? People who are early adopters of tech pay more than the people who wait 6-12 months to buy similar tech.
Move along, nothing to see here...
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
Just think how bad the early adopters of the PS3 must feel when they see that new models got rid of that annoying backward compatibility feature. Man, those people must be steamed.
If Elite comes to Canada (which they probably will) it'll be almost a scam-level bad purchase. You see, the main reason to have the big hard drive is to download video.
But, 99% of the actual video marketplace is not available in Canada.
So we'd be paying $100 basically for an HDMI port and a coat of paint.
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
I have over 2TB of hard drive space on my PC and I am running low on free space, yet the 20GB hard drive on my 360 is more than I will ever need. I download game demos. I picked up the free South Park episode. And I still have 17GB free. 120GB on a 360? Come on. What are you gonna do with that? That's more than the average schmo has on their entire PC.
Does the Elite HDMI connection support the HDMI 1.3 spec (wider bit depth for displays)?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sony had already released a new model of the PS2 that came with the bundled ethernet adaptor that was CHEAPER than if you had bought an earlier PS2 and the adaptor separately. The monsters!
Still didn't mean that the older games wouldn't work on the newer hardware, or vice versa. It was still a PS2.
Final Fantasy XI does not work on PlayStation 2 Slimline. Linux does not work on PlayStation 2 Slimline. Even some games that do not use the hard drive do not work on PlayStation 2 Slimline.Yamauchi (paraphrasing) has said, "What many companies do not understand about the video game business is that the software is the product, not the hardware. People buy the hardware only to get to the software." This solves the mystery as to why people moan and complain of new hardware (or buying more expensive hardware) but they were not complaining at all buying $70 games in the 16-bit generation. The amount of money spent on software totally eclipses what is spent on hardware with multiple $50 (and now $60) products. Just buying four games puts you to $200!
The image of the games industry is that the consoles are the main product with software revolving around it. Rather, it is the other way around. It is no coincidence that people always complain about the hardware (since it drains entertainment dollars they would rather pay for games).
Look at the pattern of outcry:
-PS3 announced at $599
-Multiple versions of Nintendo handhelds.
-GBA dongle thing to listen to headphones.
-Purchasing link cables and additional GBAs to play 'linked' Gamecube games.
-Xbox 360 failure rates
-Purchasing all the Wii controllers (and there are many!).
-16-bit (and earlier) gamers complaining how today's consoles don't come with a bundled game like they used to.
No one likes spending entertainment dollars on hardware (since you cannot play the hardware). Judging from sales results, no one is buying a PS3 or Xbox 360 based on its non-game functions of the hardware. The hardware sales revolve around the software sales instead of the other way around. Video games are about the software experience, not the hardware experience.
Anyone remember the very popular IBM mainframe called the 360? It was released in multiple versions and was structured that someone would buy a cheaper version and upgrade if their needs warranted it. This appears to be exactly what Microsoft intends. But why on Earth is Microsoft following the IBM mainframe model for their living room top box?
(Also, when the Wii launched everyone said it would have multiple versions especially a HD capable Wii in the near future. Yet, ironically, the consoles coming out with multiple versions are the Xbox 360 and the PS3 [who is rumored to have its own elite model coming soon as well].)
It is unclear but before the Sony fanbots pile on- the PS3 doesn't have a 1.3 HDMI port either. It's actually a 1.2A that Sony says will be "just as good" sometime in the future (maybe) with a firmware update. I mean, it's not like Sony hasn't downgraded their announced specs before (e.g. dual hdmi, dual ethernet ports, rumble, FULL backwards compatability, 1080P on games more graphically impressive than Sodoku...).
Huh? It's HDMI 1.3 and even HDMI Licensing, LLC states PS3 is the first product to feature HDMI 1.3. Stop stupid FUD.
http://www.hdmi.org/press/pr/pr_20061026.asp
HDMI LICENSING LAUNCHES HDMI 1.3 WORLD TOUR, AS FIRST PRODUCTS WITH HDMI 1.3 FEATURES HIT THE MARKET
SUNNYVALE, Calif., Oct. 26, 2006 -- HDMI Licensing, LLC, the agent responsible for licensing the High-Definition Multimedia Interface(TM) (HDMI(TM)) specification, next week will kick off a series of briefings and technology demonstrations for media in Asia, the United States and Europe, previewing key technologies enabled by HDMI 1.3.
The demonstrations will preview high-definition (HD) video and audio technology that will begin hitting the consumer market in November and continue rolling out in 2007. According to announcements by manufacturers, among the first consumer products with HDMI 1.3 features to reach the market will be the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3) from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. in November, the HD-XA2 HD DVD player from Toshiba America Consumer Products, LLC in December, and the EMP-TW1000, a 3LCD 1080p projector from Epson in December.
"Reports from manufacturers indicate that most Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD players, and a substantial proportion of conventional DVD players, will include HDMI 1.3 capabilities in 2007," said Leslie Chard, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC. "During the first half of 2007 we expect to see HDTVs with HDMI 1.3 functionality, allowing them to display Deep Color(TM)TM content. We also expect the introduction during 2007 of HDMI 1.3 technology for PCs, audio-visual receivers and a range of other source and display devices."
In June 2006, the HDMI Founders announced the HDMI 1.3 specification, the most significant upgrade yet in the interface that has become the de facto standard interface for high-definition devices. HDMI 1.3 more than doubles HDMI's bandwidth and adds support for Deep Color(TM) technology, a broader color space, new digital audio formats, automatic audio/video synching capability ("lip sync"), and an optional smaller connector for use with portable devices such as digital still cameras and camcorders.
HDMI specifications include both mandatory and optional components. As a result, HDMI Licensing encourages consumers to look for the functionality they want the device to support (Deep Color(TM), specific audio formats, etc.), referring to the manufacturer's product information.
The HDMI 1.3 World Tour will offer the first glimpse of key HDMI 1.3 technologies, including Deep Color(TM) and support for new lossless audio formats.
Yes this is probably redundant, but we all know as electronics consumers that as soon as we plunk down our hard earned plastic, we've just purchased something that is already obsolete. It's the nature of the beast. I'll continue to occasionally play my 360 games the same way I occasionally play my 1st gen XBOX games and I'll eventually be occasionally playing Elite games and reading about how MS is coming out with the "Most Advanced Gaming System Ever Imagined!" and eventually I'll occasionally be playing games on that thing as well. As long as we are still breathing we will be playing on yesterday's technology. Besides, they keep adding inputs to our super duper TVs that will all be obsolete when laser-on-a-chip TVs come out at the end of the year and what do you think all those inputs are for?
Why can't kids today make up their fucking minds? Why does everything have to be "like" something. Can't it just fucking be something? Commit yourself, dammit! And get off my lawn.
.. did Slashdot become Pro-Microsoft ? Don't tell me I have to shop elsewhere for my daily Microsoft bashing ? :(
:) *puts anti-xbot flamesuit on*
This will probably get me a Flamebait mod, bah, I have Karma left :p
I laugh about all who thought that MS was in the game business NOT to rape you
Oh come on... There's a reason early adopters are called early adopters. They're the beta testers of released products. In the market of today, you can't buy a product when it's first released and not expect it to be outdated in a year or two. Look at the computer hardware industry for cryin' out loud. "The Elite's Sour Side?" More like "The way hardware sales works."
Technically you can do 8 players locally now due to the Gamecube ports being active, but as far as Wiimotes there is a technical limitation of 7 as they use Bluetooth to communicate. A Bluetooth network caps at 8 devices, so you would have 7 Wiimotes + the Wii.
Didn't know that. So, it probably just would be software to get to 7 at least. Dunno much about bluetooth, the Wii is the first device I've had....would it be possible for them to add the Wii to a second network, say with a USB BT device and double that to 14?
This condisering you could also have 4 Gamecube controllers / wavebirds in addition (for a total of 11 controllers) using the built in hardware of the Wii.
True, the more I think about it, I guess what I was thinking could be accomplished a better way. I was thinking using more than one wiimote per person, both hands, legs maybe.......but, thinking about it more, they could do this with attachments to the wiimote, or just completely different controller set ups that are really just one "wiimote" to the wii.......
I beleive that Microsoft is really sticking it to their loyal XBox 360 fans more than anything. They have been known to always provide current owners the ability to add on anything that is created after the release of the console. That is what I liked so much about Microsoft rather than Sony is that they did't force you to buy a 500 dollar product like PS3. Now out of no where they create a new "elite system" that doesn't allow current console owners the ability to upgrade. Other than the harddrive, which i'd rather buy a cheaper usb one, there is no way that a current console owner will be able to experience the capabilites of HDMI without buying the new console. I thought that the main idea of the console was that you wouldn't have to upgrade, like you did with the PC. I am very fustrated with this, and I am hoping they can find a way to allow 360 pro console owners the ability to experience the advanced audio and video. If they don't I think people will just start going out and buying a PS3 instead because now this new elite version is almost just as much money.