Slashdot Mirror


China's Earliest Modern Human Found

The remains of one of the earliest modern humans to inhabit eastern Asia have been unearthed in China. The find could shed light on how our ancestors colonized the East. Researchers found 34 bone fragments belonging to a single individual at the Tianyuan Cave, near Beijing.

36 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. More evidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    fabricated by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Such gullible people.

    1. Re:More evidence... by FyRE666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I dispute this nonsense, since as we all know, the Earth is only a few thousand years old, not the 42,000 years old that this skellington is supposed to be!

    2. Re:More evidence... by webdoodle · · Score: 4, Funny

      This isn't the article I submitted to Slashdot. You editors are complete assholes, its a wonder people use your site at all. Thanks you hypocrites for sending people to a worthless BBC article, and not my site.

  2. Who are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The find could shed light on how our ancestors colonized the East.

    What do you mean "our", pilgrim? My ancestors didn't colonize the East.

    1. Re:Who are you talking about? by Yst · · Score: 4, Interesting
      --
      Karma: Chameleon (comes and goes)
    2. Re:Who are you talking about? by Frozen+Void · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your ancestors are ancestors for everyone if you look deep enough.
      see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Recent_Common_An cestor#MRCA_of_all_living_humans

  3. Other things interest me besides... by CrackedButter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd be more interested as to how people in the region developed different facial features, such as smaller eyes and differing skin tones. If we all have supposedly come out of Africa as the Article suggests, what is the reason for our physical differences? Even as a child, our differences amazed me, now that I'm older and the current theory is that we all came from Africa, I'm left asking myself again, how did we get them?

    1. Re:Other things interest me besides... by CmdrGravy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What puzzles me is that the article goes on about "archaic" groups of humans who the humans coming from out of Africa met up with and made love to without ever explaining who or what these archaic groups were and how they had got where they were.

    2. Re:Other things interest me besides... by Somewhat+Delirious · · Score: 3, Informative

      Evolutionary adaptions to different environments combined with random mutations in isolated communities perhaps?

      --
      The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
    3. Re:Other things interest me besides... by grahamlee · · Score: 5, Informative

      AIUI (I'm not an evolutionary biologist, although my girlfriend is) the environmental pressures which gave rise to homo sapiens in Africa also occurred among simian populations elsewhere, so that human-like characteristics arose independently among multiple populations (h. neanderthalis in Europe, for example). Through interbreeding and competition, there's now a single species, h. sapiens sapiens. Although some of the characteristics of our species are apparently or allegedly tracable to interbreeding events, for instance I've heard that red/ginger hair among Europeans can be linked to Neanderthalis genes.

    4. Re:Other things interest me besides... by Scarletdown · · Score: 4, Funny
      I thought this Human origins question was answered back in the late 70s...

      There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe. With tribes of Humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of Man, who even now fight to survive...somewhere beyond the heavens.


      (Cue one of the most kick-ass scifi theme songs ever composed...)

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    5. Re:Other things interest me besides... by dajak · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The archaic groups of humans they are speaking of are obviously the previous wave of humans coming out of Africa. Coming "out of Africa" does not by the way suggest a relation with the Niger-Congo ("black") peoples who currently dominate that continent: the Bantu expansion is of much more recent date. The Wikipedia Khoisan article maybe sheds some light on where the brown and yellow skin and epicanthic eye folds typical of most Eurasian populations may come from. The Papua and Australian Aboriginals are for instance also interesting leftovers of previous peoples coming "out of Africa".

    6. Re:Other things interest me besides... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Papua and Australian Aboriginals are for instance also interesting leftovers of previous peoples coming "out of Africa".

      I read somewhere that even now human African populations have much more diversity than humans outside Africa. Perhaps the different racial characteristics represent groups who left Africa at various times because they were less suited to the environment there.

    7. Re:Other things interest me besides... by dajak · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed. Nearly all diversity in appearance of human beings outside of Africa is also found in Africa, even today. But there seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding about what this means, because many people seem to be under the impression that a) Africa is inhabited by black people of the Niger-Congo type, and b) that these people and their ancestors where always all over that continent and all people less black than them are somehow less "African".

      In reality the expansion of the Niger-Congo people from a fairly small area in western Africa is a very recent phenomenon, and a large part of Africa was, and in the north still is, inhabited by people with lighter skins and a variety of physical features. The African sun does not select specifically for being of the Niger-Congo type: the expansion has to do with agricultural and military advantages these people had over their competitors. Compare tropical regions in Asia and South America before the Spanish arrived: no blacks there. There is however a limit on how light-skinned a baby can be in the African sun and still survive, so some mutations will only happen once a group has left Africa.

    8. Re:Other things interest me besides... by edwardpickman · · Score: 2, Funny

      The red headed Neaderthal theory has been around for a while but there's still no evidence genetic or physical. That said my exwife was a redhead so I personally am a true believer.

    9. Re:Other things interest me besides... by radtea · · Score: 4, Informative

      the article goes on about "archaic" groups of humans who the humans coming from out of Africa met up with and made love to without ever explaining who or what these archaic groups were and how they had got where they were.

      Evidence suggests that early hominids migrated out of Africa in waves. Homo erectus, for example, is believed to have evolved in Africa and spread over much of Asia one or two million years ago. The general pattern of hominid evolution is one of evolution of new species in Africa followed by general dispersion over those parts of the globe accessible by foot. This pattern appears to have been repeated several times: H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis/neanderthalensis[1] and H. sapiens.

      The reality of hominid evolution is that we don't know a lot. The number of fossils is small and the weight of inference they bear is heavy. As Mark Twain said, in science one gets such a huge return in speculation from such a trifling investment of fact. However, the DNA evidence points quite strongly to the evolution of modern humans in Africa about two hundred thousand years ago, and the migration across the rest of the Old World about 70,000 years ago, with the settling of Australia by perfectly ordinary H. sapiens who are just like all the rest of us about 40,000 years ago. North America was colonized somewhat later, but probably not that much.

      Humans are much bigger on exogamy than any other primate: we have a strong tendency to breed outside our kin group. We'll have sex with just about anything, and actually show a marked preference for those who are not perceived to be close kin. This is why the differences between races are so tiny, and restricted entirely to rapidly evolved and quite trivial enzymic variations that have high survival value in different climates. We are all multi-racial under the skin, and all have ancestors of different races far more recently in our family tree than most people appreciate (Icelanders may be exempt from this rule.)

      So on the face of it, if there were multiple waves of near-modern humans migrating across the Old World, it is very likely that the members of the most recent group would have interbred with previous groups.

      [1] For the racists in the audience, it might be worth contemplating that Neanderthals are the only hominid species that appears to have evolved in Europe (from H. heidelbergensis that left Africa earlier) and of all the hominids they are amongst the least successful.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    10. Re:Other things interest me besides... by Chemicalscum · · Score: 2, Informative

      "AIUI (I'm not an evolutionary biologist, although my girlfriend is)... Although some of the characteristics of our species are apparently or allegedly tracable to interbreeding events, for instance I've heard that red/ginger hair among Europeans can be linked to Neanderthalis genes."

      You are certainly not an evolutionary biologist and if your girlfriend is you certainly haven't been listening to here unless she is a student of that neanderthal Wolpert.. You don't live in Ann Arbour by any chance?

      Most paleoanthopologist think that modern humans are descended from a small population in Africa that spread out and colonized the entire world displacing earlier archaic types of homo such as erectus and neanderthalensis with whom they could not interbreed. There is good genetic evidence based on the sequencing of mitochondrial DNA from the bones of neanderthal specimens to show that we are not the product of interbreeding with neanderthals.

      The differences in appearance are a result of selective evolutionary pressures working on populations of modern humans. For example the pale pinko-grey skin of northern europeans like myself is due the lack of sunlight in these northern climes. Vitamin D is produced through the action of sunlight on cells just below our skins. Having a dark skin in Africa and othour tropical regions protects against damage from strong sunlight and the occurence of skin cancer, while enough sunlight penetrates to produce vit D.
      However the first dark skinned modern humans to penetrate into the gloomy north would tend towards vit D deficiency and there would be a selective pressure towards lighter skinned individuals, able to produce enough vit d, surviving to reproduce. Nothing todo with inbreeding with archaics, simple eh?

    11. Re:Other things interest me besides... by grahamlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If she's called Eve then I'll pick up Richard Dawkins' coat along with mine on the way out ;-). Mind you, you can kindof work out that it wouldn't require too much history for you and I, or you and CmdrTaco, or you and anyone else in the world to find a common ancestor. If you go back 33 generations then without any inbreeding you would have 8 billion ancestors, which is more than even the current population. That's only 8-900 years, OK the population isn't as uniform as the above calculation assumes but if you even had to go back 15k years for yourself and an arbitrary other human to find a common ancestor, I'd be surprised.

  4. Quickly now, don't run! by cybereal · · Score: 2, Funny

    And he was lying there in the dirt only slightly longer than it took Slashdot to catch on to this news.

    --
    I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
  5. Modern? by FredDC · · Score: 4, Funny

    Researchers found 34 bone fragments belonging to a single individual at the Tianyuan Cave, near Beijing.

    If he's living in a cave, he can't be very "modern"...

    --
    09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63
  6. Actually it is that old. by MarkByers · · Score: 3, Funny

    > I dispute this nonsense, since as we all know, the Earth is only a few thousand years old, not the 42,000 years old that this skellington is supposed to be!

    It really is that old. On the 8th day, god created a 40,000 year old skeleton and then buried it somewhere he knew we would find it. he does this to test our faith. god can do anything. Even impossible things or things that make no logical sense.

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:Actually it is that old. by aproposofwhat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Richard Swinburne, the foremost living philosopher of religion

      No - the foremost living philosopher of religion is Richard Dawkins, and there is no logical reason for believing in a god or gods at all.

      Logic not only precedes gods, it precludes them as well.

      Philosphy of religion? Why bother? An anthropology of religion would be valid, but to try to apply logic and reason to myths is just not valid. As Wittgenstein put it -

      Of that on which we cannot speak, we must remain silent.

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    2. Re:Actually it is that old. by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No - the foremost living philosopher of religion is Richard Dawkins

      No, he is not a philosopher of religion. In the last twenty years, he has tried to present himself as one, but the academy, both theist or non-theist, is getting a little worried about him. Anthony Flew, instead of joining with Dawkins in any way, went the entirely opposite direction.

      There is no logical reason for believing in a god or gods at all.

      Theist philosophers of religion propose arguments, and their non-theist colleagues, though they critically examine them, nonetheless believe that the whole enterprise has value.

      To try to apply logic and reason to myths is just not valid.

      Theist philosophers don't necessarily work from any existing world religion, so "myths" don't often come into play here.

      Please get some training in the field before you try to dispute its work. K thx bye.

    3. Re:Actually it is that old. by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 2, Funny

      without faith God is nothing.
      Yeah, but the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, right?
      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    4. Re:Actually it is that old. by mapkinase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dawkins is an arrogant media-hungry loser of science. I have seen similar figures in my field: computational biology. It has nothing to do with religion or anything else. Some people just want to flamebait on- and off-line.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    5. Re:Actually it is that old. by Mjlner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, he is not a philosopher of religion. In the last twenty years, he has tried to present himself as one, but the academy, both theist or non-theist, is getting a little worried about him.
      He has hardly tried to present himself as a "philosopher of religion". He has quite clearly presented himself as an atheist and a scientist. He does, of course, philosophize against religion. Which academy are you talking about, by the way, and of what importance is this academy to Richard Dawkins?

      Theist philosophers of religion propose arguments, and their non-theist colleagues, though they critically examine them, nonetheless believe that the whole enterprise has value.
      That statement is quite non-informative. You already said that Dawkins is not a philosopher of religion, which indicates that you automatically exclude atheists from being philosophers of religion, which I'm prepared to agree with. In other words, the only non-theists you speak of are deists. Why should a deist philosopher of religion not find value in such an enterprise?
      --
      Lemon curry???
    6. Re:Actually it is that old. by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Richard Swinburne, the foremost living philosopher of religion
      No - the foremost living philosopher of religion is Richard Dawkins
      Actually, Daniel Dennett is probably the best mind in the field today.
      He proposes many scientific tests for analyzing the propagation, benefits, and costs of religious ideas. He thinks memetics and evolutionary psychology provide the best way of understanding the state of religions.

      He is also an atheist, and believes religion is in its death-throes in modern society.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    7. Re:Actually it is that old. by v01d · · Score: 3, Insightful
      But still, my point above stands, it's not for anyone on Slashdot (unless they hold a Ph.D and a university position in the subject) to say anything negative about a field.

      Your point is just an inversion of the burden of proof fallacy. If I have a phd in the field of "teapots orbitting the sun", every one is more than welcome to question the value of my field. If your point was valid, any quack could create all sorts of completely pointless fields of study and no one would be able to say they were pointless.


      The fact is if you are making a positive statement the burden of proof is on you. Almost by definition skepticism doesn't need proof, just reason.

    8. Re:Actually it is that old. by Retric · · Score: 2

      "There's also the fact that humans seem to have a natural need to believe in something. Even those who aggressively deny God may believe in something completely irrational."

      That does not support your argument "those ... deny God" believe in a lack of god by definition. Agnostics on the other hand neither believe or disbelieve the existence of "God" and therefore disprove your statement.

      Anyway, I like many people I feel the existence of God is as likely as the FSM (flying spaghetti monster) but neither believe nor disbelieve the existence of either.

      EX: It's possible for a 20 year old to randomly flip's a coin and get heads every time after he keep's it up for 6 months, he goes on the road becomes world famous, in time he believes that it's a sign from god. So he becomes a preacher etc. Then in on his 90th birthday he flips a coin and get's tails and becomes so distraught he dies of a heart attack. However, nothing I said implies his story could not have been random chance.

      PS: The idea that the existence or non existence of anything can be proven is false.

    9. Re:Actually it is that old. by inviolet · · Score: 2

      Something caused the universe to come into existence.

      Why does existence need a cause? Why can't it simply be eternal?

      It may have been God. Seems logical enough for me.

      Ah, so reality is finite and bounded, but a personality is unlimited? Doesn't that strike you as backwards?

      There's also the fact that humans seem to have a natural need to believe in something. Even those who aggressively deny God may believe in something completely irrational.

      True enough. Now tell us how you got from that fact of human psychology to a cosmological puppeteer.

      The only difference is that many of those irrational things can be disproven (and they still believe in them), whereas God cannot.

      God doesn't need disproving, He needs proving.

      An inability to prove a thing's existence, is prima facie evidence that the thing has no effects on anyone.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  7. Re:Could be fake by djupedal · · Score: 3, Informative

    "has a very high likelihood of being a forgery"

    Don't be an idiot - that would mean being found for sale on a dirty blanket laid out on a sidewalk outside the Lohou train station in Shenzhen. The Tianyuan Cave is a carefully protected area, listed on UNESCO's World Heritage List, and monitored specifically to prohibit such funny business.

  8. Philosophers have value? by guidryp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Theist philosophers of religion propose arguments, and their non-theist colleagues, though they critically examine them, nonetheless believe that the whole enterprise has value."

    First you have to convince someone that modern academic philosophers have value, for this statement to matter.

    Religion is interesting in the abstract, but theists tend to believe because that is what their parents believed and they simply indoctrinated the children. If not fairly heavily indoctrinated, most people would not be that religious.

    1. Re:Philosophers have value? by c_forq · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If not fairly heavily indoctrinated, most people would not be that religious.

      I hear this argument a lot, but I have never seen anyone back it up with evidence. I know it is anecdotal so close to meaningless, but my reason to doubt is the largest church in my hometown has a congregation of over 1,600 people, and a vast majority of them were not raised in Christian homes. Now the catholic church and school, in which children are heavily indoctrinated and I don't think a single member wasn't raised in a catholic home, has seen steady and fairly rapid decline.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
  9. Re:Statistics Canada. by guidryp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just recently I ran across this at statscan: Page 7-9 of pdf. There is an interesting table on "Religiosity", part of it compared religiosity to parental religion Look at the low religiosity category. If both parent have the same religion (more consistent message) only 32% have low religiosity, if both parents just have different religions (less consistent message) low religiosity jumps to %50. If neither parent is religious, it jumps to %85. This has always made sense, but this is pretty clear statistical evidence that it is more a learned trait.

    http://www.statcan.ca/cgi-bin/downpub/listpub.cgi? catno=11-008-XIE2006001

    Religion of parents (vs outcome Lo Med Hi religiosity )
    Both parents same religion 32 34 33
    Parents from different religions 50 28 22
    Neither parent religious 85 6 10

    I like to think I was just born very skeptical and would have been a non believer no matter what circumstance I was born into, but it may just be that neither of my parents was religious and I was left to form my own ideas without being indoctrinated. Naturally many people will buck the trend but I think the correlation is clear.

    Religion is just the brains legacy OS many people got stuck with.

  10. Re:Meow by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps he's simultaneously aware and not aware of it?

    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.