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SCO Legally Assaults PJ of Groklaw

Litigious Bastards writes "SCO has just filed court papers saying that they were unable to subpoena PJ of Groklaw. While they apparently sent their crack team of process servers out looking for random people named Pamela Jones, it would appear that they were unable to locate the bright yellow envelope labeled 'Email PJ' on the Groklaw website to ask for directions to serve her in person. They're once again accusing her of working for IBM or Novell, and Groklaw is now hosting over 20 documents PJ claims were planted in the media in an effort to discredit her. As she says, 'And so the stupidest lawsuit in the history of the world just got stupider. And a whole lot meaner.'"

118 of 340 comments (clear)

  1. Legally assaults? by Askmum · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wasn't aware of the fact that assault was legal in the US.

    SCNR

    1. Re:Legally assaults? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Only if you hit someone with a lawyer.

    2. Re:Legally assaults? by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or you are the VP, on a hunting trip...

      --
      Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    3. Re:Legally assaults? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or a Kennedy driving drunk, at night...

    4. Re:Legally assaults? by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can just see the commercial now. Guy in a 3 piece suit with a red headband tied on: Webster, Webster, & Cohen. Our Kung-fu is strong. Just pick a target and we'll beat the ever loving sh*t out of him, legally!

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    5. Re:Legally assaults? by AndersOSU · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or at 10AM for that matter

    6. Re:Legally assaults? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, the barristerial battery of it all...

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    7. Re:Legally assaults? by mikael · · Score: 2, Funny

      They are, but you need a lot of practise.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  2. I've heard... by Cytlid · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... that they're also looking for an elusive character to subpoena, his name is "Honest Truth".

    --
    FLR
    1. Re:I've heard... by physicsboy500 · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... that they're also looking for an elusive character to subpoena, his name is "Honest Truth".

      that's funny... I thought they were trying to avoid him

      --
      The original generic sig.
    2. Re:I've heard... by Vengeance · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, they keep running smack up against the guy, but never recognize him when they see him.

      --
      It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
    3. Re:I've heard... by Stanistani · · Score: 4, Funny

      Psst! He's hiding in a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'

    4. Re:I've heard... by spun · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm guessing that's because their "crack teams" are using actual crack.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    5. Re:I've heard... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Funny

      I would imagine they have no use for Honest Truth. However, Daryl has been overheard to say he would like some "individuals of interest" added to the case... namely Waldo and Carmen Sandiego. SCOg's lawyers figured PJ was more or less the same thing to them.

    6. Re:I've heard... by couchslug · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actual "Plumbers Crack" is more like it.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  3. SCO still exists? by MarkByers · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd have thought SCO would be bust by now, given the amount of money they must be spending on lawyers, and on how fast their customers must be running from them. Does anyone how they are still able to make money?

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:SCO still exists? by jhfry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are nefarious groups in the world that would like to see SCO win and put Linux back into obscurity. Ironically, this case has had exactly the opposite effect that they intended.

      It's shed light on the ridiculousness of software patents, and brought clarity to copyright law. Additionally it's shown that there are companies who are willing to stand up for Free Software, even at great expense.

      I think those who have funneled money into SCO all deserve a round of applause for helping to validate Free Software!

      --
      Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
    2. Re:SCO still exists? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a shame that groklaw.net seems off-line right now. Look for the records there on how Microsoft is helping keep SCO afloat by sponsoring "partnerships" with other Microsoft companies. It's also amusing how the money is just enough to keep SCO afloat: this weakens Linux with all the nonsense being spewed by SCO, but also keeps SCO from being able to do useful work with their own UNIX licenses.

      It's certainly more desirable for Microsoft to interfere with both markets than to help either side win.

    3. Re:SCO still exists? by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's shed light on the ridiculousness of software patents

      On the contrary, it's shown that the system, slow as it is, at least works reasonably. They abandoned the lame-o patent claims long ago when it became clear they weren't winning them. Not to mention which, no software patents were never declared invalid in this case; rather, it simply became clear that SCO's interpretation of the licenses was retarded. In that sense, the patent claims were a matter of contract law, which was what was in fact disputed. Since then, this has become purlely a copyright case, and they're obviously losing that too.

      and brought clarity to copyright law.

      I don't know what's been clarified, other than the fact that there isn't any SCO-owned code in Linux save what they put there and has since been removed. Copyright law has always been clear with regard to this case: don't copy what isn't yours. Problem is (for SCO), IBM didn't.

      Additionally it's shown that there are companies who are willing to stand up for Free Software, even at great expense.

      I'd be wary - IBM is standing up for themselves. When they start filing amicus briefs in cases they're not involved in, that don't impact them directly, then I'll agree with that. Are they?

    4. Re:SCO still exists? by Teancum · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would also like to point out that prior to this lawsuit that it was a common mantra of FUD that the GPL had not ever made it into court to be tested, so it was unknown what its status in court would ever hold.

      This lawsuit changed all of that, and has shown that the GPL is far stronger than ever... especially GPL v 2.0 (the 3.0 debate will open this FUD up all over again, but at least the principles have already been tested).

      Now when somebody tries to sue based on the "unconstitutionality" of the GPL or comes up with all other kinds of crazy ideas that the GPL is legal BS, you can simply show them SCO and a graph of their stock price after they filed their lawsuit, and mention that SCO is one of the most heavily shorted stocks ever in the history of NASDAQ. The only reason their price goes up at all is because people are trying to "cover" their short sell, which requires actual purchase of shares.

      Send such a graph to major investors of a company suing based on the GPL, and I'm sure they will stand up and take notice. The only possible reason to keep something like that going is if (like SCO) the investors are from other companies who don't care if the "investment" goes straight into the toilet and have other political goals in mind.

      The last word about the SCO lawsuit has yet to be written, and this is going to be very interesting where it will go once SCOX is delisted and the SEC gets into the mess. I'm sure they will at some point.

    5. Re:SCO still exists? by jhfry · · Score: 2, Informative

      it's shed light on the ridiculousness of software patents

      On the contrary, it's shown that the system, slow as it is, at least works reasonably. They abandoned the lame-o patent claims long ago when it became clear they weren't winning them. Kinda my point. They dropped the pursuit of patent claims that were no better than their copyright claims, because they realized that it's more a more difficult to fight for the patent issues. I am not saying they blew the doors wide open, but the fact that they chose the copyright fight over the patent one demonstrates that not even complete idiots will try and fight Free Software over patent issues. (exaggeration, and flaimbait I know).

      and brought clarity to copyright law.

      I don't know what's been clarified, other than the fact that there isn't any SCO-owned code in Linux save what they put there and has since been removed. Copyright law has always been clear with regard to this case: don't copy what isn't yours. Problem is (for SCO), IBM didn't. Their case with IBM has clarified how Free Software can defend itself against copyright claims, and it has also proven that GPL is a valid, trial tested, copyright license. This may seem minor, but no license is considered worth the paper it's written on until it is contested in court... same goes for contracts, waviers, etc. Without precedent, there is no way of knowing how the language will be interpreted.

      Additionally it's shown that there are companies who are willing to stand up for Free Software, even at great expense.

      I'd be wary - IBM is standing up for themselves. When they start filing amicus briefs in cases they're not involved in, that don't impact them directly, then I'll agree with that. Are they? IBM is indeed defending themselves... however I would guess that they could have settled early on and not incurred quite as much cost. However this would have set a precedent that the Free Software community could not afford. They were not the target so much as Free Software... however they were one of the few targets that would be able to pay a settlement if SCO won, and one of the few targets that might be willing to pay SCO off in a settlement agreement. Instead, IBM has chosen to stand behind Free Software, and fight the ridiculous claims of SCO. Would they step up and help if SCO had chosen a different target, I doubt it, at least not to the degree of commitment they have in this case.

      All I was saying with my post, is that this entire legal proceeding has given Free Software credibility that it lacked prior to SCO making its outlandish claims. This case could have broken the back of Linux and Free Software, given it a reputation as a bunch of thieves and hackers (with common negative connotation). This would have occurred if IBM had not chosen to fight, or had lost... so I thank IBM for their all of their efforts! And I thank SCO for picking the wrong target!
      --
      Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
    6. Re:SCO still exists? by RedHat+Rocky · · Score: 2, Informative

      "There are nefarious groups in the world that would like to see SCO win and put Linux back into obscurity. Ironically, this case has had exactly the opposite effect that they intended."

      To people who have a clue and pay attention, I agree.

      However, I have run into people, and I mean IT managers, directors, sysadmins, who honestly thought there was "legal problems" with that "Linux stuff".
      There was damage done with this FUD and it has not gone completely away.

      --
      Anything is possible given time and money.
  4. Is there something we can do to help? by AltGrendel · · Score: 4, Funny
    Counter sue?

    Nah, I'll just call my Cousin Vinnie.

    Baseball bat and umm...

    You named SCO? I heard you're giving a friend of mine, PJ, some problems. Let's talk.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:Is there something we can do to help? by Hieronymus+Howard · · Score: 4, Funny

      With a username of AltGrendel, shouldn't you be getting your mother to do the dirty work?

  5. 2 people connected to the scox-scam killed already by walterbyrd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They may have killed themselves, we really don't know. But, in a country where people are killed over parking spaces, I would be careful about seperating delusional paranoria from legitimate concern for one's safty.

  6. why would she work for IBM... she works for me :) by theonlyholle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least I've paid her a couple of times and I suspect others have done the same. There are some very convenient donation links on Groklaw and for every donation I have sent so far I have received a friendly "thankyou" email. But even if she *did* work for IBM, that wouldn't change the facts of the case and I would still enjoy reading the legal analysis, which is pretty sound once you take out the sometimes over the top OSS "fangirlism" that I occasionally find a bit annyoing.

  7. Stupidest lawsuit in history? by giafly · · Score: 5, Funny

    A Montana man has sued media giant Viacom, saying the MTV show "Jackass" plagiarized his name, infringed on the trademark and copyright of his name and defamed his good character. The plaintiff's name is Jack Ass.

    An inmate in a Virginia penitentiary has filed a lawsuit against himself, claiming that he violated his own civil rights by getting arrested.

    When fans of eating can no longer trust their cheese-covered puffs boiled in oil to be healthy, it's more than sad. It's your ticket to millions. Meredith Berkman claims the secret fat caused her "weight gain, mental anguish, outrage, and indignation."
    Nope. Not even close.
    --
    Reduce, reuse, cycle
    1. Re:Stupidest lawsuit in history? by Jaywalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, there are a lot of idiot lawsuits out there. But how many have gone on for four years, cost this kind of money and involved this many people? SCO sent threatening letters went to 1500 companies, sued two of their own clients and three of their former business partners. And, as is becoming increasingly clear, they really didn't have any real evidence to start with.

      Maybe you could find a suit based on a stupider premise, but I don't think anyone can beat SCO for the sheer scale of their stupidity.

      --
      ===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
    2. Re:Stupidest lawsuit in history? by Kierthos · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey, just because no one reads your blog is no reason to take it out on PJ.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    3. Re:Stupidest lawsuit in history? by Rodness · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The conspiracy theorist in me (I don't let him out much) wonders...

      This whole thing could be an elaborate Microsoft scheme to discredit Linux:

      1) Enrich Darl enough so that he won't care when his personal/corporate image is sullied (even further).
      2) Have SCO file idiotic lawsuits to try to bury IBM in shit.
      3) Have SCO maintain these lawsuits even when lack of evidence is exposed, basically displaying psychotic determination.
      4) Regardless of the outcome of the trial, dump enough money into SCO to keep it on life support so it can send the occasional threatening letters to anyone known to be using Linux.

      This could just be Microsoft throwing SCO under the bus in an attempt to spread FUD and make Linux-using companies afraid of getting sued, thus driving up their TCO, at which point MS can say "Yeah, our licensing is expensive, but do you really want to risk getting sued by SCO? They're bankrupt, they're desperate, even if you disprove their charges you'd never recover your legal expenses from them...."

  8. IANAL, but surely.... by jimicus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Are you legally obliged to make it easy for someone to subpoena you? eg. by replying to an email asking for that information.
    2. Is it a particularly good idea to email an address on a website which may or may not go to the correct person asking "Hey, where do you live, we want to serve legal documents on you"?

    1. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, this is for the New York City Civil Court (your mileage may vary), but it would seem that it is up to the server to find the person to be served. I really don't think they can legislate that the person being served make themselves more available, sonce there's no real way to know who will receive a subpoena ahead of time.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    2. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1. Are you legally obliged to make it easy for someone to subpoena you? eg. by replying to an email asking for that information.

      IANAL (I do have most of a Paralegal degree, sans only Ethics.)

      I am not aware of any statute that requires you to actively seek out a subpoena. However, if you do successfully avoid a subpoena, you'll just wind up with a court summons, or a warrant. Generally, if someone's subpoenaing you it's in your best interest to read that subpoena ASAP, get yourself a lawyer, and talk to the judge. Don't avoid judges; they don't like that, and you don't want to be in the court of a judge who has reason to dislike you.

    3. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by LizardKing · · Score: 5, Funny

      IANAL (I do have most of a Paralegal degree, sans only Ethics.)

      I gather that the difference between a Paralegal degree and a Lawyer one is that there isn't an Ethics course in the latter.

    4. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by Teancum · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, but there are tangible assets that can be dealt with in the case of an ISP or even a simple website. Certainly you have the domain "owner" that ought to have a legal address somewhere. You can at the very least trace the owner of the IP block, find out the ISP, subpoena billing records, and eventually trace it to the "owner" if they put something as their address for the DNS records as "somewhere on Utopia Planatia, Mars". You can be found.... although certainly it is not necessarily something easy.

      And if you are a domain owner and allowing random people to use your website without the ability to find out exactly who they are, you are setting yourself up for a liability issue on that one point alone. Again, you don't have to go out of your way to disclose exactly who everybody is, but information about an individual is often available even if the website owner is not publicly disclosing that information.

      If you are hyper-paranoid about privacy, you can connect to websites using an anonymous proxy and use a throw-away e-mail address from someplace like yahoo or hotmail where you register with fictional information. While not perfect (you are depending that the proxy logs are getting wiped regularly) it is possible. Unfortunately (or fortunate for most law enforcement types), most people are lazy and don't go through those steps. Especially if you use an on-line personna for any length of time, some personal details are going to come out one way or another.

    5. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Informative

      The first assumption here is that SCO has honestly tried to serve PJ with a competent subpoena. From what I remember about SCO and subpoenas, they have consistently delivered them to the wrong address (Chrysler), to the wrong people (Intel), had technical defects (Intel, Oracle), had procedural defects (Oracle, Intel, the Open Group), and with inadequate notice (Intel, Oracle, the Open Group).

      When the subpoenaed Chrysler, they sent it Chrysler's old corporate HQ which they moved out of years earlier. SCO sent a subpoena to Intel's legal department even though Intel had told them that they retained outside counsel for these matters, and SCO had worked with that outside counsel 45 days earlier. They send Oracle and Intel subpoenas for depositions without listing what topics to depose and wanted to take the depositions (in NY) 2000 miles from Intel's HQ (in CA). In CA where the OpenGroup, Oracle, and Intel are located, you are not allowed to drop a subpoena demanding a deposition and expect to be followed. According to rules, there must be a meet and confer with the other party (especially if they are third party to a lawsuit) to arrange these matters. When some of the procedural and technical defects were finally resolved, all three were given less than 24 notice to appear to testify about a broad number of subjects. Intel specifically objected noting that the depostion would require the appearance of 6-8 people and about a month of preparation to gather all the required documents.

      With SCO it has always been about tricks and delay.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    6. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by div_2n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As funny as that is, it is actually quite simple. Paralegals pursue facts. Lawyers pursue victory. Facts sometimes get in the way of victory which means that if a lawyer really wants victory, that often means avoiding, distorting and conjuring up facts.

    7. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by timothy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, they call it "Professional Responsibility" in law school, but it boils down to an ethics course.

      Not that the ethics it teaches are especially transformative :)

      You can find the rules here: http://www.abanet.org/cpr/mrpc/mrpc_toc.html

      timothy

      --
      jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    8. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by number11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Certainly you have the domain "owner" that ought to have a legal address somewhere.

      Yup.
      >Registrant:
      >Domains by Proxy, Inc.
      >DomainsByProxy.com
      >15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
      >Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
      >United States

      So you need to deal with their lawyers first. That assumes that they know. The webmaster and the nameservers are in the Netherlands. But (if you do find him) I'm sure he'll be impressed by a subpoena from Utah.

    9. Re:IANAL, but surely.... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, ok

      Administrative Contact:
            Private, Registration GROKLAW.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
            Domains by Proxy, Inc.
            DomainsByProxy.com
            15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
            Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
            United States
            (480) 624-2599

      Why is groklaw so secretive? If they do end up working for IBM in any way I hope they apologize and fold up for being astrturf.

  9. More Trouble by BCW2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now PJ can file a civil claim and try to get what little is left of SCO. Better yet use discovery to find the individuals who have done this and file against them personally. Slander is possible. They have made a concerted effort to discredit her in the press and since their claims are all false it will be easy to prove. Don't sue a worthless shell, get the jerks and lighten their wallets, that will end this farce the quickest.

    --
    Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    1. Re:More Trouble by mikelieman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pierce that Corporate Veil! Yeah Baby!

      --
      Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
    2. Re:More Trouble by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      Slander is possible. They have made a concerted effort to discredit her in the press and since their claims are all false it will be easy to prove. Don't sue a worthless shell, get the jerks and lighten their wallets, that will end this farce the quickest.

      You mean libel, right? According to wiki slander is a harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech. Libel is a harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast. Since SCO talked to the press (and they knew they were talking to the press), it's libel.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  10. OSDL funding by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hmm.. Big companies give money to OSDL, who then uses it for a variety of purposes, including paying Linus' salary, and, according to SCO, funding Groklaw.

    Being a non-profit, who OSDL gives money to is public information.. so I don't really doubt SCO's claims that OSDL gave money to Groklaw. There's also some claims that the web server that Groklaw runs on is supplied by another non-profit, ibiblio.

    IBM donates to both of them.

    So yeah, sucks to be dragged into it, but when IBM says they don't give you money either directly or through a third party and they clearly do, well, hell, way to drop the ball guys.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:OSDL funding by antiMStroll · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "So yeah, sucks to be dragged into it, but when IBM says they don't give you money either directly or through a third party and they clearly do, well, hell, way to drop the ball guys."

      Unless IBM specifically instructs OSDL to forward the donation to Groklaw, they are not 'clearly' donating money through a third party. OSDL independently chooses to use the money in that way, OSDL makes that choice. Big difference.

  11. Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by Zocalo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Clearly Groklaw is the biggest of the many sites that go over the minutae of the various SCO lawsuits, so they are probably quite correct in their assertion that it's materially impacting their business - and proves that you do indeed reap what you sow. So, SCO drags PJ into the lawsuit, probably knowing full well that it's almost certainly not going to get them anywhere legally, but that it will buy them yet more delays, something they really seem to like. IANAL, but from what I understand of US law free speech does not extend to those involved in a legal case being able to comment on that case, and that surely has to be the real goal here. By getting PJ involved in the case and getting really, *really* lucky, they might be able to effectively gag Groklaw, or at least limit what they can and cannot post.

    Personally, I think getting someone with a detailed knowledge of the case, a legal background, additional protections through being a journalist and despises you and your company onto the witness stand is not a smart move, but then I think SCO & BSF have already proven beyond reasonable doubt that they are not smart. Desperate maybe, but not smart.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    1. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is a good thing that the site is under creative commons license. If they do "gag" P.J., then magically, I'm sure, Groklaw2 will pop up and appear hosted by someone, with a different web master while P.J. gets a well deserved rest.

    2. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by Teancum · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As far as "free speech", while there are technicalities all over the place and it does get complicated with judges also claiming that you don't "lose your rights" when stuff happens like this, I would have to agree with you on a practical level. Once you have a lawsuit filed, you pretty much have to shut up.

      Of course there is explicit legislation that is designed to stop this sort of behavior by "activist groups" and others who are clearly on a political campaign and have previously been exercising their 1st amendment rights prior to a lawsuit that attempts to shut them up: http://www.thefirstamendment.org/antislappresource center.html

      While SCO here is screwed financially as it is, normally this is something that is dangerous as the group (like PJ from Groklaw) which is sued, as long as they are on the safe side of libel laws, can counter sue for incredible amounts of money. In the arena of public opinion, it is also a P.R. nightmare to lose a SLAPP suit, not to mention it may have serious negative consequences if you are involved with other legal matters.

    3. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by tinkerghost · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why avoid it?

      1. 8 hours * $400/hour = $3200 for just the deposition, figure that again for prep time for the deposition. That's just the lawyers fees.
      2. Spending 8 hours of your life trapped in a room with a bunch of lawyers who's sole goal is to make your life miserable.
      3. Risking being dragged deep enough into SCO's legal battle to require that you no longer comment on it.

      Those are the 3 that come to mind in the first 10 seconds of thinking about it.

      Given the way SCO has treated it's previous deposees, I wouldn't do a thing to make their lifes any easier to find me. I don't need any more abuse in my life. If they can follow the rules & find me - so be it, if I can't quash the supeona, I'll show up. Until they follow all the rules - something they seem to be unable to do- I'm sitting on my butt laughing at them.

    4. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by NickFortune · · Score: 4, Interesting

      PJ has been hugely evasive on this issue

      Can you support that, in any shape way or form? I've seen her deny working for IBM, quite unambiguously too. On the other hand the only thing resembling support for the proposition that she works for IBM is that she hosts Groklaw in ibiblio, to which IBM have occasionally contributed money.

      I'm with you as far as the "SCO are assholes" comment however.

      since she has so much to say re SCO why not just accept the supoena and nail them in the courtroom.

      Well...

      Firstly, it's far from clear that she's deliberately tried to evade it.

      Secondly, she wouldn't get to appear in court; deposition just means being grilled for hours by SCO's lawyers.

      Thirdly she's trained as a paralegal, not an lawyer. Writing a scholarly paper on the martial arts will not turn you into Bruce Lee. Paralegal training doesn't imply skill in verbal debate.

      Fourthly, it's her decision to make.

      Fifthly, she's entitled to her privacy.

      For points six and onwards, see point five.

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    5. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by swillden · · Score: 4, Informative

      PJ has been hugely evasive on this issue.

      She has? She hasn't been evasive at all about this issue. She has stated quite clearly, on many occasions, that she does not work for IBM, IBM does not pay her, the fact that IBM contributes to ibiblio had nothing to do with ibiblio's willingness to host her site, nor her decision to ask ibiblio for hosting, and that she really is just a paralegal with a passion for open source software and nothing better to do with her time than groklaw.

      You can believe that she's lying, if you want, but she certainly hasn't evaded the issue at all. IIRC, IBM has also publicly denied any support for PJ or Groklaw. And if you believe their fine attorneys would allow them to lie about anything like that, you're nuts.

      I know few people actually want to appear in court but since she has so much to say re SCO why not just accept the supoena and nail them in the courtroom.

      This statement implies that the has tried to avoid the subpoena. She says "No one tried to serve me that I knew about. No one informed me of any deposition date." Again, she could be lying, but her articles on Groklaw over the years indicate that PJ has a deep and abiding respect for the law and the legal process, and it seems very likely that had SCO or BSF used the e-mail link on her web site to let her know they were looking for her to serve a subpoena on her, she would have given them the information they needed.

      Also, it seems very unlikely to me that a person who knows the law as well as PJ obviously does would do anything so foolish as lying in public about elements of a lawsuit related to her personally -- leave that to SCO. I'm sure she even cleared her disclaimer with her attorney before posting this most recent article, which deliberately doesn't say much, and points out that since she's personally involved, she can't say much.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    6. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by rucs_hack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, you might just have hit the main issue here. If she is made party to the case, does that mean she can no longer comment on it?

      Could that be the real reason they are trying?

      Not that I think it will work. However they are so screwed that any possibility of even the tiniest link between PJ and IBM would be useful to them, or so they think.

    7. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by rucs_hack · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Firstly, it's far from clear that she's deliberately tried to evade it.

      If anything is clear, its that she has risked burnout by spending so much of her time on this one case. I am amazed she didn't take a break sooner.

      I think they likely saw that she was on a break, and decided to try and serve her then, so they could say she was avoiding it.

      I don't get the lack of ability to contact her. I've sent 5 emails to her over the years, and received responses by next day every time.

    8. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by FuryG3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think if I ever run into Darl I'll run up to him and be like "Hey, Mr. McBride? Can I get an autograph..." "Thanks! Now I just have to get the Enron guys and I'll have the whole set!

    9. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by theonetruekeebler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      By getting PJ involved in the case and getting really, *really* lucky, they might be able to effectively gag Groklaw, or at least limit what they can and cannot post. Gagging PJ doesn't gag Groklaw. At worst she would have to hand it off to someone else for a while. This may be the smart thing to do regardless, because I'm sure SCO will try to have the deposition sealed, then try to talk about every single aspect of the case with her, then attack her if she says so much as her name in public.

      But I suspect there are plenty of lawyers ready to go to bat for her, and if she needs to start a legal defense fund the donations will exceed SCO's market value within a few hours.

      --
      This is not my sandwich.
    10. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by tinkerghost · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's unlikely, to be put on a gag order, SCO would have to show that she is:
      • Interfiering with their business in an unlawful way
      • An actual party to the litigation - not a 3rd pary observer.

        Note that receiving funds 2nd had through a foundation that is supported - in part - by IBM doesn't make her a party.

      • Disseminating information not publicly available.

      I think that any one of those might cause a gag order.

      As for interfiering with their business, commenting on a legal case in progress isn't illegal. Stating your opinion isn't illegal. Telling people to stay away from a company because they are crazy enough to sue their customers might be tortuous interfierance, if it wasn't provable that they are in fact suing their customers. So that's not going to initiate a gag order.

      Skipping to disseminating information not publicly available, Groklaw has on occasion posted things that were supposed to be filed under seal. The reason that was done is that the documents themselves were misfiled. PJ has deliberatly removed those documents from the archive each time this has occured. Other than that, I don't recall seeing anything that was presented that isn't part of the public record - IE, you can go down to the courthouse and pick up every document listed on Groklaw that originates in this case. Secondary comments & supporting documents or documents brought in from other locations to refute SCO or bolster IBM & Novell have likewise been available for public consumption - published works, web pages available from the internet, etc.

      The only real hope SCO would have to get PJ silenced as a party to the lawsuit would be to prove she is an employee of IBM. Even then, they would have to show a reason to gag her when she's only commenting on publicly available documentation. They would also have to show how her discussions are any more biased than the SCOinfo.com site SCO itself maintains.

    11. Re:Fairly transparent what their strategy will be by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Informative

      Can you support that, in any shape way or form? I've seen her deny working for IBM, quite unambiguously too. On the other hand the only thing resembling support for the proposition that she works for IBM is that she hosts Groklaw in ibiblio, to which IBM have occasionally contributed money.

      Remember that PJ worked for something like 2 weeks at ODSL a couple of years ago, and now SCO is claiming that IBM was simply using ODSL to funnel money to her. In other words, IBM gave ODSL a big chunk of cash which they in turn used to pay her. SCO claims it was $50K or something like that.

      PJ promptly resigned when she realized that SCO was going to twist her employment there, and it's a miracle that it's taken them this long to pull it off. Part of the problem that they have is that she's been at it now for 4 years, so, even if they're right, she's mananged to make minimum wage. But there's no reason to believe that they're actually right.

      Most people aren't evil. Most people don't shit in their own bed. SCO is being run by people who are truly evil and will destroy anybody and anything to make a buck.

  12. Slashdotting by hey · · Score: 2, Funny

    Her server is withstanding the Slashdotting pretty well.
    This proves "she" must really be IBM. (Joke.)

    Seriously, I hope someday, somebody can write a short (one page) clear and simple
    document explaining who owns the various *nix names and code.
    I'd like this short document to be sued and win so make it "proven".

  13. Re:SCO still exists? Simple by neongenesis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Micro$oft has both purchased a very large license for undisclosed Unix IP (can't they get anything that they need from BSD?) and has been implicated at least a little bit in under-the-table assurances to places like Baystar that their "investment" in SCO will be covered when it is lost.

    It has probably been worth a great deal to spread IP FUD about Linux until Vista gets up and going. Do you think that they have gotten their money's worth in funding TSCOG's long slow suicide?

  14. Funded by Microsoft by alienmole · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's funded by Microsoft. Your Windows dollars at work.

    1. Re:Funded by Microsoft by lysse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So by SCO's logic, don't IBM and/or Novell have a perfectly good reason to subpoena Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer?

  15. If stock price translates to authority... by dasunst3r · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... then SCO should be tagged "funny." If you take a look at their stock (SCOX) since 2000, you will notice that they have gone from $94 to a mere $0.89.

    1. Re:If stock price translates to authority... by dougmc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you take a look at their stock (SCOX) since 2000, you will notice that they have gone from $94 to a mere $0.89. As much as I love bashing SCO, that's hardly unusual for that period of time.


      For example, in the company I work for, in the same period, our stock has gone from approximately 1000 (split-adjusted) to 19 right now -- and we're even making a profit now, and weren't back then. Irrational exuberance indeed!

      It's called the dot-com bubble, and lots of stocks did that.

  16. Truth, Justice, and the American way by WorthlessProgrammer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I may have been the last serious Linux/GCC/Python user that has not visited Groklaw, but what the hey; it is 0625, I am still at work, and needed to "escape" to something unique on-line.

    The lady noted "Forsooth, methinks SCO folk need to get better aligned with truth, justice, and the American way, as the saying goes. But that's the judges' job, so I'll end my comments about this here."

    Was this hyperbole, or does she really have significant faith in the American justice system ? And this is not a rhetorical question. Others that read her often may want to answer.

    As for me, I have not been certain about the meaning of the "American way" for several years. As a former U.S. marine and Libertarian, I had a tendency to believe that the U.S. Constitution represented the most realistic opportunity for "justice".

    It now seems that the implementation does not meet the requirements of the abstraction.

    1. Re:Truth, Justice, and the American way by lenski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      PJ has been flawlessly consistent in her trust in the U.S. legal system. She says that it can produce imperfect results, as can any human-created system, but it has a strong tendency to work in the right direction.

      In the SCO case, PJ has in her own inimitable way, contributed to this case going the right way: She brings the actinic glare of illumination onto a process that SCO, and others, have tried to accomplish.

      PJ started her blog several months before the SCO case became public knowledge, in order to connect geeks with legal concepts. She believed then and still believes that we (the technologists) should be aware of the rules of the game in order avoid being steamrolled by it.

      I've been reading the blog since early 2003, and PJ sounds like a gentle spoken (she insists on decorum) but very very intelligent paralegal. The truth justice and the American way language is backed up by consistent and finely honed research and argument. Plus one additional ingredient, a very angry hornet's nest: 10,000+ pissed off developers, some of whom have been around from the inception of UNIX and derived technologies. PJ, more than anything else, has brought us together to face the threat from SCO and folks like them, and for that alone her contribution is inestimable.

  17. Some interesting points by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to everything I've read, SCO wants to depose PJ for the Novell case not the IBM case. But they also want to include the deposition in the IBM once it is done. All depositions in the IBM case should have been done by now. They are trying to do an end-around the rules.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  18. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by dschuetz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Agreed. Surely she could get in touch with them, right? Presumably she has nothing to hide, and could easily let SCO know "here I am, stop this nonsense".

    True, but until they actually reach her with a subpoena, she's not under any legal requirement to do so. Hearing about a subpoena in the news (or via a motion she's retrieved from the internet) isn't nearly the same thing as actually being served. And if she's not actively dodging it (for example, if she's honestly taking a long-planned vacation somewhere and prefers to keep the destination private), then that's just SCO's tough luck.

    I mean, really, why make it easy for SCO?

    On a slightly different point, was it just me, or did this motion sound really whiny, even considering the history of this case?

  19. You obviously haven't been following the case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SCO has been making accusations against PJ for a long time. They have previously tried to find her and on one occasion they 'outed' her, identifying her as a sixty year old Mormon with a son in New York city. If they can find her and serve her then she will have to pay big lawyer bills with no hope of recovering them because SCO is going bankrupt anyway.

    These people have demonstrated time and time again how nasty they are. They have zero respect for the truth and there is an excellent chance that some of them are going to jail when this is over.

    PJ has nothing to do with the case other than hosting the website that destroyed the FUD value of SCO's criminally frivolous lawsuits. Any evidence she gives will have no bearing on the outcome of the cases. They are just after her to harass her. She's not being shrill and paranoid, she's being realistic.

    1. Re:You obviously haven't been following the case by grylnsmn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      SCO has been making accusations against PJ for a long time. They have previously tried to find her and on one occasion they 'outed' her, identifying her as a sixty year old Mormon with a son in New York city. If they can find her and serve her then she will have to pay big lawyer bills with no hope of recovering them because SCO is going bankrupt anyway.

      Small correction: PJ is not a Mormon (unless she's met with some missionaries and gotten baptized in the past 3 years). When she was supposedly "outed" (I don't recall her ever confirming any of O'Gara's claims), it was claimed that she is a Jehovah's Witness.

      Many of the other people involved in the case (including Judge Kimball, Darl McBride, Brent Hatch, and so forth) are Mormons, but most Mormons (including me) who know about the case are quite frankly embarrassed by Darl's behavior. It certainly isn't in keeping with the teachings of the LDS Church.

  20. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by peragrin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Given the fact that Maureen O'Gara, a reporter(and I use that loosely)tried to find out where PJ lived, and then published photos of her alleged house, brother and mother without ever verifing if it really was the right Pamela Jones I too would be a bit paranoid. If I published photo's of Darl Mcbride's house you can believe he wold have the police after me even if it was the wrong house.

    Given the facts in this case, and what Darl has said ad done, I too would be scared of what Darl would try to do.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  21. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Groklaw shouldn't be about its creator.

    Everybody knows by now that a message is meaningless and is to be ignored, or even disparaged if you can't identify the messenger. Just look at how ACs are treated here.

    --
    What?
  22. Correction! by dremorbius · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just to correct the article, the 20 documents refered to as listed on Groklaw were submitted
    by SCO as evidence that PJ/Groklaw have interferred with their Busines and to justify
    deposing her.

    Most of them seem to be net gossip/comment.

  23. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Perhaps you don't live it the real world where very bad things can happen to very good people. There is lots of money involved here and maybe even some jail time for some corporate bigshots. So who knows what someone might do, or be paid to do, to shut up a never-ending source of bother for their get-rich plans.

  24. All Slashdot-ers with initials PJ.... by Fysiks+Wurks · · Score: 5, Funny

    Email SCO with your message " I AM P.J!"

    For authenticity you should be wearing your Spartacus gladiator arm shield or Roman slave tunic while typing.

    --
    P226
  25. But Darl's got a gun. by Jaywalk · · Score: 3, Funny

    SCO's CEO has made a point of telling the press that he carries a gun. So he's got lawyers and guns, but he's running out of money.

    --
    ===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
  26. Unix "ownership" by MathFox · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seriously, I hope someday, somebody can write a short (one page) clear and simple document explaining who owns the various *nix names and code. I'd like this short document to be sued and win so make it "proven".
    I hate it to destroy your hopes, but Unix ownership is a mess. AT&T sued several times, handled title to System V code to Novell, who settled with UCB. (That's where Free/Open/NetBSD got their freedom.) SCO claims to have received ownership on SysV from Novell, which is currently contested in Utah District Court.

    Many of the commercial Unices have some AT&T code in their kernels and utilities. Most of the original AT&T code has been bug-fixed out and there is serious dispute whether copyright applies on the remaining fragments. Other Unix variants are based on BSD code and lack any code where (AT&T/Novell/SCO) may claim copyright upon. Sun is a special case, as they contributed to SystemV and have more rights than mere SystemV licensees.

    Are you still with me or did you lose the plot somewhere?

    Sorry, you can not sue a document. There has to be a lawsuit regarding a real conflict between two legal entities.

    --
    extern warranty;
    main()
    {
    (void)warranty;
    }
  27. The funny part by Quila · · Score: 2, Informative

    And if she's not actively dodging it (for example, if she's honestly taking a long-planned vacation somewhere and prefers to keep the destination private), then that's just SCO's tough luck.
    PJ claims she never left home. She only took a break from posting at Groklaw.
  28. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by radarjd · · Score: 2, Insightful
    True, but until they actually reach her with a subpoena, she's not under any legal requirement to do so. Hearing about a subpoena in the news (or via a motion she's retrieved from the internet) isn't nearly the same thing as actually being served. And if she's not actively dodging it (for example, if she's honestly taking a long-planned vacation somewhere and prefers to keep the destination private), then that's just SCO's tough luck.

    I mean, really, why make it easy for SCO?

    She's not under an affirmative duty to seek being served, but as you say she's neither allowed to avoid it intentionally. I would argue that as an officer of the court, and one who (I hope) believes in the system, she should in this case seek service. It's not going to make anything easier for SCO, as she has nothing to hide. She can be clever in her deposition and publish it on the site for our amusement.

    That's just my opinion, of course, but it seems reasonable and logical to me. There's no reason to lower oneself to the tactics of the other side.

  29. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They have had 2 odd deaths, both ruled suicide, associated with them. One had turned against SCO and the other was convincing her father that SCO was a mess (who then disassociated himself from SCO and the parent). And you think that she is sounding shrill?

    Me, If I was SCO's number one enemy, I would not want to be known to them.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  30. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Informative

    "I would argue that as an officer of the court, and one who (I hope) believes in the system, she should in this case seek service."

    She's not a lawyer, right? What makes her an "officer of the court"?

  31. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hyperbole, yes. But she's making an important point.

    Lawyers and cops play special roles in our society. Those roles require they have powers which, if abused, could make our lives living hells. And bad as a rogue cop can be, short of killing you there's nothing he can do to you that's worse than what a rogue lawyer can do. Maybe they don't put a bullet in your head, but they can take the roof from over your head, the food off of your table, and medicine out of your medicine cabinet. For some people, people who have a responsibility to provide for others, a bullet in the head would be preferable.

    So we rightly expect that cops and lawyers display a high degree of responsibility when it comes to the integrity of the system. To be a decent cop, I suppose you just need common sense, but a lawyer's ethics are much trickier because he's supposed to be a vigorous advocate for his client. The problem with abusive SLAPP lawsuits and even the use of empty legal threats is that they divide society into two classes: people with the resources to defend themselves and people who do not.

    Does anybody have a duty to respect and cooperate with a system which unjustly oppresses them? Should we give power to people who will use it to wrong us for their clients' benefits? If we do, we'll end up with a two track system of justice in which one class of people can use the legal system to compel any behavior they wish from the other.

    SLAPP suits and baseless legal extortion undermine the legitimacy of the system. The system should come down hard on lawyers who practice this kind of law. Not only should they be disbarred, they should be sent to jail to do hard time. We'd strip a cop of his badge and send him to jail if he was shaking down shopkeepers. I'd rather pay protection money to a cop than let a bad lawyer get his hooks into me.

    Let me be clear that I don't hate lawyers. I admire the profession, and technical skills of it practitioners. But they have a higher duty of public ethics than a day laborer or cab driver, and when they breech that duty the damage they cause is unthinkable.

    This by the way is why we should be concerned about the dismissal of David Iglesias. It is true that Mr. Iglesias served at the pleasure of the President; but the President has no more right to single out his political enemies for prosecution than he has to single out his friends to receive federal contracts. Mr. Iglesias, and indeed the President, have a duty to support and defend the Constitution, and the integrity of the legal system. As bad as the potential for abuse is for an ordinary lawyer, a prosecutor has the power to drop an unbearable burden of suspicion on anybody he choses. That power should only be exercised in the public interest.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  32. Re:Probably Want to Sue PJ by mark-t · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No... they are trying to get the judge to read Groklaw so that they can file for mistrial on the grounds that the judge has been tainted with "biased misinformation" about the case.

  33. Re:But Darl's got a gun. by sconeu · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why don't we just send Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner after him?

    (and to the mod trolls, no it's not off-topic, reread the parent).

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  34. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by radarjd · · Score: 2, Informative
    She's not a lawyer, right?

    Correct, she's not, she is simply assumed to be by many. She is a paralegal, and is not admitted to the bar in any jurisdiction. I suppose that's just a pet peeve of mine...

  35. groklaw slashdotted now by random+coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thanks slashdot; you crashed groklaw.

  36. Not quite right.... by tinkerghost · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This motion is filed under SCO v IBM in order to get the deposition of PJ in SCO v Novell(when & if it happens) admitted to the SCO v IBM evidence.

    SCO has already stated an intent to depose PJ for the Novell case, they just want to be able to add it to the IBM case. The general consensus is that it won't happen. Final discloures & depositions were supposed to be done over a year ago - adding this deposition will effectively re-open discovery after a year of waiting & the PSJ's have been argued.

    Worse for SCO, all of the things they are arguing should allow this deposition into SCO v IBM all happened while discovery was open. In other words, it's not new it's between 2 & 3 years old and they had the oportunity to do the deposition within the proper scope of discovery & didn't. NYCountryLawyer may have better input, but from my understanding, weather the deposition goes forward or not, this motion is unlikely to be granted.

  37. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by radarjd · · Score: 3, Informative
    To the best of my knowledge PJ was a paralegal, has never been a lawyer, and therefore is not an officer of the court. Furthermore, whatever she was before 2003, she is now unambiguously a blogger. Neither more nor less.

    You are absolutely correct -- that was a bit of a jab on my part. I'm not a huge fan of Groklaw, or the way it is run. PJ's opinions are taken as fact or as prevailing legal opinion in their entirity by many, and that is annoying to me. She advocates a position, which is of course a lawyerly thing to do, while leaving out other arguments (see, e.g., the groklaw wikipedia page).

    She may or may not work for IBM -- it doesn't really matter to me, and I honestly don't think it matters legally. At the same time, if she really values the law instead of a pulpit for her personal ideology, she should seek being served. She can blog about her personal experiences -- about a blogger becoming involved in her topic.

  38. Re:why would she work for IBM... she works for me by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From one point of view, SCO is in the middle of cold war between the superpowers of IBM and MS. Neither party is going to direct the other directly, so SCO is used as a proxy.

    On the internet, no one knows you are a dog, so I make no assumptions about any presence unless I have first hand confirmation. So, does Pamela Jones exist, and if she does is she largely funded by IBM, and if she isn't does IBM have a presence in her life? I don't see any evidence to draw any conclusions. However, if it is true that PJ is some form IBM proxy, does that make any difference. Is Groklaw some sort of corporate entity governed by rules of disclosure? I am sure that SCO lawyers and accountants will support the right of an organization to not disclose any information that is not required or otherwise beneficial to the organization. If Groklaw is the IBM arm of the cold ware, so what? It makes as much difference as if SCO is the MS arm, which is none.

    Of course, it could just be that we are all afraid of SCO, and do our best to hide from them.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  39. nail them in the courtroom? by hAckz0r · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since when does giving a deposition have anything with appearing in a court room? They ask the questions and you answer them. Thats it. They get to decide what topic is important and how to phrase that question and you simply get to say yes or no in most cases. They can ask you about your personal life, finances, and just about whatever they want to ask. Hopefully you'll bring a lawyer to draw the line in the sand if you are smart. If they don't ask a question where you can show them how stupid SCO is being then you miss the chance to have your say on the subject. Its not a fun experience I can assure you. If I could appear before the judge in this case I happily volunteer because that environment is a lot more conducive to showing a fair outlook on the facts of the case and with a little luck you might get to expand on the subject enough to nail them to the wall in the eyes of the court.

  40. Why should she? by nweaver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SCO has a long and (well documented by PJ) history of abusive, ridiculous, legal theories and a long trend of gross attacks and dissemination in the press and in legal filings.

    So why should she help them at all in their quest to slime her?

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
  41. Re:2 people connected to the scox-scam killed alre by The+Darkness · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It was probably a side effect of the new moderation system. You used to click a "moderate to this" dropdown box and then click "submit" to moderate. With the new comment system it's javascript based so as soon as you select a moderation it is applied. I'm sure I'm not the only person to accidentally moderate a post to the wrong thing.

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those that need closure
  42. Sort of... by Excelcia · · Score: 2, Interesting

    SCO's stock price has been hovering around the 85-90 mark for the last few weeks. I think they only have a week or so left of it being under $1 before they get a delisting warning from NASDAQ.

    So ya, they're still hanging in like a set of nasty klingons that resist toilet paper - but while I don't expect the big flush to come tomorrow, I really don't think they have any more than three months left.

    1. Re:Sort of... by Excelcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While that is a tool that is sometimes used to avoid delisting, reverse splits are traditionally punished quite heavily by investors. It's also not a certainty that it would help them, as NASDAQ has rules about doing that to pump up your stock price. There are market capitalization requirements as well as absolute share price requirements. If they reverse split, they will almost certainly lose their already dwindling market cap, if they don't they face delisting from share value.

      They have publicly said they have enough cash to last them until this fall. Not exactly a forecast that inspires confidence. Combine that with a reverse split and watch any remaining tatters of credibility they have in any form swirl down the crapper. If even one of those pending summary judgement motions goes against them, that will probably be all it takes to cause what few investors are left to cut and run.

      No, I stand by my evaluation. I don't expect them to last more than three months in their current form.

  43. Re:Time enough... by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 4, Funny

    This will be used as a lesson in all business and law schools.

    Personally, I'm hoping for a new verb, like "SCOpuku" (from 'seppuku') or at least "SCOicide". To wit:

    SCOpuku: Destroying one's company by launching frivolous legal action against Open Source developers and/or companies. See SCO.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
  44. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by radarjd · · Score: 3, Insightful
    There is one easy answer to your argument..........BULLSHIT

    Eloquently put.

    Let me put the first reason this way. There is no law that says it is your responsibility to seek such service

    I agree, and I stated as much in my post.

    The second reason is the Constitutional right to privacy

    The US Supreme Court has recognized something of a "right to privacy" in several cases, but of course the Constitution doesn't grant a general "right to privacy" in as explicit terms as I would like. That "right" protects you from unreasonable search and seizure in their "in their persons, houses, papers, and effects" (4th Amendment). It originally applied only to the federal government. By the 14th amendment it's been interpreted to extend to the state governments as well. In the instant case, no government is seeking PJ. At present, it's a private (i.e. non-governmental) entity, and no [federal] Constitutional right exists to privacy from a private entity.

  45. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by mwaggs_jd · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well there is a body of law around the concept of "constructive service", if you know about the case, know about the attempt to serve you, then you may be deemed to have been served. Similar is some ways to service by public notice, which is allowed in some cases.

    --
    No one here gets out alive
  46. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by Stumbles · · Score: 2, Informative
    she really values the law instead of a pulpit for her personal ideology, she should seek being served

    Nope.... no cigar for you. You are completely wrong about actively seeking to be served. That's just utter non-sense and one that just shows it is you who does not value the law. The law says it is the person serving the papers responsibility. I fail to see how that is so hard to understand.

    --
    My karma is not a Chameleon.
  47. If she really wants to remain anonymous... by THESuperShawn · · Score: 2, Informative

    If PJ really wants to remain as anonymous as possible, I hope that is not her user ID and client login at the bottom of the Pacer docs (Pdf's).

    --
    Repant. Thy end is sheer.
  48. Don't forget Sun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sun, who also have a vested interest in hurting Linux, also bought some "unspecified intellectual property" from SCO for millions of dollars just before they launched their lawsuit.

    http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-1024633.html

  49. Re:why would she work for IBM... she works for me by mengel · · Score: 2, Informative
    Hmm... She's said numerous times that she's never been paid by IBM, and does not work for IBM.

    How does that qualify as "reticent", exactly?

    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
  50. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 2, Informative

    The SCO case includes some behind the scenes activities that might cause an otherwise sane person some paranoid thoughts. http://www.linuxbusinessweek.com/story/48789.htm?D E=1 The suicide of Noorda's granddaughter and heir to the fortune he built up at Novell and Canopy (the holding company that is SCO); the legal and family proceedings revolving around his Alzheimer's disease http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jh tml?articleID=193200278&subSection=Breaking+News; the suicide of Robert Penrose, a key canopy partner shortly after his firing from the Canopy http://www.smallworks.com/archives/00000250.htm and other details too lurid for even slashdot.

    Canopy (and Noorda's family and associates,) apparently are not people who have both oars in the water.

    Does anyone want to speculate as to whether PJ has a right to fear these deaths were other than self-inflicted? Under the circumstances, would YOU feel threatened by these people?

  51. Re:SCO still exists? Simple by PPH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In fact, this might be why SCO stock still exists. Some people might be speculating on a shareholder lawsuit against Microsoft in the event SCO goes TU. IANAL, but if SCO turns out to be Microsoft's sock puppet, liability might extend beyond the normal corporate limits.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  52. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by dubl-u · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Agreed. Surely she could get in touch with them, right? Presumably she has nothing to hide, and could easily let SCO know "here I am, stop this nonsense". Groklaw shouldn't be about its creator.

    Aww, that's cute! Completely naive, but darling.

    Seriously, have you ever been sued? Even when you are 100% sure that you are in the right, you still have to pay $250 an hour to your lawyer to fend off all the bullshit they care to throw. With SCO, that may be a near-infinite supply. And if you miss something in preparation or they find something that they can distort into an apparent problem? Then you could be well and truly fucked. Even if it all turns out perfectly, it's months or years of stress, just because there's so much on the line and so much out of your control.

    Make no mistake: if somebody suggests you have "nothing to hide", that's the time to clam up completely.

  53. PJ: come towards the light .. :) by rs232 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    'PJ's whereabouts were unknown for some time as stated in the filing'

    But why did they process serve in Connecticut, while PJ is supposed to be in Hartsdale, New York? And why is it the entire SCO legal team can't seem to find her when Moggie O' Gara found it so easy? Maybe they should hire her on to find PJ.

    'It is also, settled by case law that you cannot serve someone by email unless you have exhausted all possibly efforts to serve them in person in order to affect a certainty of awareness of the subpoena'

    What efforts did they expend in locating Ms. Jones? What case law are you citing that refers to serving a subpoena by email? Please give references. According to IBM-1018.pdf SCO can just leave it lying round at the witnesses' office to be duely served.

    'she has enough backing and friends to muster together a motion to quash the subpoena'

    I wouldn't even respond if I was her. All is happening here is SCO trying to distract from their own lack of facts and drag out the discovery phase some more. Instead of 'SCO show us the code' it'll be when did PJ know something and how did she come by this fact. Something totally irrelevant in SCO v. IBM/Novell/AutoZone /Daimler Chrysler etc.

    'Lets get it on so that the realities that each side is claiming can be settled by the facts instead of by amatuer pundits such as myself'

    What factual cited court records and other fully attributed documents on Groklaw materially impinge on the SCO case? Like all they have to do is point. A bit like pointing out the 'stolen' code in Linux.

    'As for Groklaw being a legal website based upon the truth, one should be reminded of the words of former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis: 'Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants''

    How can Groklaw not be in the Sunlight - it's a website? What bits on Groklaw aren't truthfull. It's being going for years. Surely you - sorry I mean the SCO legal team would have spotted something by now.

    was break it down (Score:5, Interesting)

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  54. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by Paul+Jakma · · Score: 2, Interesting
    but a lawyer's ethics are much trickier because he's supposed to be a vigorous advocate for his client.

    In the english legal system, from which the systems of the USA and others forked, barristers act not in their clients' interest, but primarily in the interests of justice. E.g. from the Irish Bar's Code of Conduct, (which forked only 80 odd years ago from the English one), in the section on practicing barristers:

    Barristers have an overriding duty to the Court to ensure in the public interest that the proper and efficient administration of justice is achieved and they must assist the Court in the administration of justice and must not deceive or knowingly mislead the court.

            Barristers must promote and protect fearlessly and by all proper and lawful means their client's best interests and do so without regard to their own interest or to any consequences for themselves or to any other person including fellow members of the legal profession. And note from the beginning of the code that all members of the Bar, practicing barristers or not, have a duty to uphold the ethics and ethiquette of their profession.

    I'd be curious what kinds of professional obligations US Bar and Law societies impose on their members, particularly as to how far they allow such members to advocate their clients cases beyond the interests of justice. The "rogue" lawyers you say exist in the USA possibly would liable to censure by the professional body regulating them.
    --
    I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
  55. Re:Stupidest...Is it really even stupid? by dtjohnson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So Microsoft is funding the Baystar investment in SCO that's behind all of this. Microsoft drops chump change and casts a 5-year cloud over IP FUD over Linux at the same time that Microsoft is ramping up their licensing fees, releasing a new DRM-crippled version of Windows called 'vista', and generally consolidating their worldwide windows franchise. In a normal marketplace, doing all of those customer-unfriendly things at once would cost you your customers. But with the SCO cloud hanging over Linux, it's value as a serious alternative to Windows for corporate and government customers has been severely compromised. Imagine for a moment that there had never been a SCO lawsuit. Maybe then HP, Dell, and Lenovo would be successfully hawking Linux desktops and laptops to rapidly growing corporate, government, and personal markets and Linux would be on magazine covers everywhere instead of...vista. So...you can call the SCO lawsuit a lot of things but you what you can NOT call it is a stupid move on Microsoft's part.

  56. SCO = NOKO by KnarfO · · Score: 2, Funny

    With SCO it has always been about tricks and delay.

    Dang! Now I see!

    Darl McBride is *actually* Kim Jong Ill!

    SCO is the USA shell corporation for NoKo!

    It all makes sense now...

    --


    "Creativity is allowing ones self to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep" - Scott Adams
  57. You better re-read that filing by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 2, Funny

    SCO's filing makes it quite clear that PJ works for IBM, and has been dodging their subpoena like so many Bill Clintons during the Nam war.

    Beginning on page 3 of
    http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/IBM-1018.pdf

    You will see *numerous links to all sorts of blogs that reinforce SCO's theory about her. This, obviously, is damning evidence. Also, for about eleven minutes on August 6, 2006, the Wikipedia article on PJ clearly stated that she was an undercover IBM agent and a "$£77¥ h0!!!!"

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  58. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even when you are 100% sure that you are in the right, you still have to pay $250 an hour to your lawyer Just so. Not to mention, once she's a legally "involved party" in the case, SCO may be able to get the judge to issue a gag or restraining order to prevent her from posting any more commentary. Of course, in that case [sorry], maybe PJ's long-lost distant relative "TJ" could step in to keep the community informed (while having no actual contact with PJ, of course)...
    --
    Just junk food for thought...
  59. What do they want? by jjohn_h · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What are the SCOjones doing?

    They are trying to depose Groklaw's PJ in SCO vs.
    Novell because she apparently knew too much about
    Novell's Unix copyrights claim three years ago.
    They cannot find her, but Novell has graciously
    agreed to an extension so SCO have time until end
    of May to smoke PJ out. If they succeed, PJ will
    certainly object to the summons and with good
    reasons. Note that they have been trying to track
    her down from the very beginning (Summer 2003).
    And failed.

    They are also trying to include the hoped for
    deposition in the SCO vs. IBM case. Why?

    - The motion with explicit reference to the
            summons may do as an alternative way of
            serving the summons, which would dispense with
            continuing investigative efforts to find the
            lady.

    - They want to smear IBM, depicting it as the
            hidden force and money source beyond Groklaw.
            The hard-core beyond the extortionist assault
            on IBM has not given up on their illusions
            that IBM will settle under pressure.

    - They want to accumulate more confusing
            material for the jury, should the case ever go
            to trial. The show would run in Salt Lake City.
            Imagine a small Mormon controlled local
            company against an alien behemoth. And a
            mountain of tough technical and contractual
            issues to flatten out any jury.

    - They want to re-open discovery to hinder as
            much as possible progress towards Partial
            Summary Judgements (PSJ). Judge Kimball
            decided early 2005 that motions for PSJ would
            only be accepted after end of discovery. If
            discovery is re-opened now after those motions
            have already been heard, he would look funny.

    - They want to hamstrung PJ as Groklaw
            commentator. If she becomes part of the case,
            she will not be in the position to do much on
            Groklaw. Groklaw without PJ would be shrinking
            to insignificance in no time.

  60. OpenSolaris by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sun wanted to free Solaris, a SysVR4 derived OS, which obviously required clearing the licenses first. Hurting Linux may or may not have been a side benefit, but for a company like Sun releasing their "crown jewels" will have been the main issue.

  61. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    '' Well there is a body of law around the concept of "constructive service", if you know about the case, know about the attempt to serve you, then you may be deemed to have been served. Similar is some ways to service by public notice, which is allowed in some cases. ''

    However, in this case we are talking about SCO. They have a long, documented history of not telling the truth. So claims by SCO of having attempted to serve her, even letters to the court claiming that they attempted to serve her, don't mean a thing.

    Most likely SCO is not trying to serve her at all.
    Second most likely, if they are trying to serve her, they are doing it with their usual incompetence and won't manage to find her.
    Third most likely, if they actually manage to find her and serve some papers on her, they will have messed up the papers.

    In that case, PJ will probably find herself a lawyer, go through the papers very carefully, find where SCO has messed up, and send them a letter at the last possible time telling them with which legal requirements their paper does not conform. That is, unless the subpoena is so messed up that an answer is not necessary.

  62. Stupid? It's brilliant! by OwenMarshall · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The SCO lawsuit has got to be one of the most brilliant decisions ever made. Period.

    Microsoft needed a quick and easy way to scare businesses away from Linux. But, oh no, their normal smear campaigns haven't been working. What to do?

    Step 1: Find an old UNIX company that isn't adapting well to computing where big-iron and *NIX workstations aren't the hot technology on the block.

    Step 2: Get an investment company to pour cash into the company at your bidding.

    Step 3: Create a lawsuit guaranteed to last for at least four or five good years. Sue everyone who touches Linux, including high-publicity companies that use it, companies that contribute code, and so forth. Drag it out as long as physically possible.

    When all is said and done, SCO's offices will have a For Rent sign on the door, the board of directors will be either rich or indicted. And Microsoft? Microsoft walks away with clean hands, without directly paying SCO.

    Really, it is a beautiful strategy -- best case, enough uncertainty is created that companies buy Windows licenses for their servers. Worst case, Microsoft gives Baystar a wink and a nod, as well as an investment that will more than offset the SCO fiasco. Everyone wins but SCO.

  63. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by 644bd346996 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And of course, the fact that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Which effectively says that the feds don't have the power to rescind the right to privacy. The states have that power, if the people give it to them.

  64. SCO sues sues sues! by noidentity · · Score: 2, Funny

    First they sued the companies their code came from. Then they sued their paying users. Now they're suing those who are discussing their suits. Next they will sue the world. Mwahahahahaha!

  65. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by rm69990 · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to PJ's next story, her vacation took place in her bedroom down the hall from the computer she normally uses to write Groklaw.

    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200704051 23029796

  66. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by rm69990 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In her defense, she makes it clear when something is fact (ie. provides a citation) and when something is her opinion. Furthermore, her opinion seems to come up right 99% of the time, right from the very beginning of Groklaw. Can you point out a single time where she was blatantly wrong about something to do with this case? I can certainly point out hundreds of times SCO's officers and other journalists have been dead wrong or outright lying when discussing this case.

    Besides, Groklaw is HER Blog, she can say whatever she wants on it, and you can choose not to read it as well. Most blogs that I know of have someone in charge.

  67. Re:PJ spouting hyperbole by rm69990 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Judge wouldn't issue a gag order on the whole case. At most, he would issue a gag order on her specific testimony. Furthermore, the Judges are already are quite disgusted with SCO's abuse of others through the media (and have said so on numerous occasions), so I very highly doubt they would actively attempt to shut Groklaw down, when Groklaw actively works to keep SCO inline. Not to say what you suggest is impossible....I just don't see it happening, especially not with Judges Kimball and Wells in charge.