Slashdot Mirror
The End for Vonage?
TheRealSCA writes "The latest in Verizon vs. Vonage is in. The judge has basically stopped Vonage from accepting new customers. From the article: 'A judge issued an injunction Friday that effectively bars Internet phone carrier Vonage from signing up new customers as punishment for infringing on patents held by Verizon. Vonage's lawyers said the compromise injunction posted by U.S District Judge Hilton is almost as devastating as an injunction that would have affected Vonage's 2.2 million existing customers. "It's the difference of cutting off oxygen as opposed to the bullet in the head," Vonage lawyer Roger Warin said.'"
Our "intellectual property" system at work for you, ensuring innovation and -- as a nice side effect -- severely restricting competition in the marketplace. Hip Hip Hooray
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Now that Verizon has more-or-less successfully defended their BROAD patents on VoIP stuff, I wonder how long it will be before AT&T/Cingular starts suing ALL of the other phone companies for violating THEIR patents.
I imagine that AT&T owns MANY of the patents on much of the phone technology currently in use. Or at least, owns patents that are "close enough" to successfully sue everybody for infringement.
It's all so crazy. The telecom industry in the US is fucked.
PWNAGE
Whooo-hooo, wooo hoo-hoo!
Whooo-hooo, wooo hoo-hoo!
Whoo-hoo-hoo, oooh-oooh...oops.
Well at least I can watch TV this weekend without having to watch any more of those annoying Vonage commercials...
Coldmoon over Dark water...
Patent infringement is NEARLY always about one big guy versus another big guy -- or a big guy versus a little guy. How often do patents actually help individuals rather than mega-conglomerates? Even if you have a small business with various patents, can you afford to protect them in court?
Vonage lived by the sword -- they themeselves believed in patents. While I feel this judgment is counter-market, it doesn't cause as much damage as patents do in general. The idea that someone can monopolize the thoughts, motions or creations of another individual is ridiculous, especially in the multitude of patents we all know are ridiculous.
So be it. Whenever anyone who uses patents loses a patent war, they get what they deserve. I feel no pain for Vonage, nor anyone who decides to base their businesses on forcing other businesses not to compete in a certain way.
Rest in pieces, Vonage. Maybe Verizon will be next.
So you think this wouldn't have happened if Vonage hadn't pursued patents?
Let me add a dose of reality to your delusion. They simply would have been sued out of business sooner.
...you just made my choice a little easier. I'm a happy Vonage customer, and I'm also in the market for a new cellular provider. I can now scratch Verizon off the short list.
I bet they'll do almost anything to keep a customer since they can't add anymore.
In the US, at least. There's a world-wide market for this kind of thing however. US patent law isn't and can't be enforced everywhere (thank God!).
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Keep in mind that the Markman hearing (to decide what the claim actually covers) adoption of verizon's construction of all the claims means that all of the patents read so broad that things like BIND and SIP infringe -- Add to that court irregularities: no patent case expertise and instead of days, there was only a 30 minute per side argument per side for 48 claims over 7 patents -- and there's a pretty strong case for appeal.
IANAL.
More than a few years ago, the big AT&T was forced to split up to remove a monopoly they had. Well, lets see, now SBC, Bellsouth, Cingular, DishNetwork and probably more I don't know of all fly under that AT&T banner. All reports of Qwest suck, and I have my own hatred for Vonage but it was a choice some found to be good. Where is all my choice going and why isn't someone in the government stopping this? The telecoms are raping the people AGAIN, and although not a monopoly yet, its getting to the point of being one if not something worse. Now that VoIP is being challenged, that could effectively eliminate even more plays like Charter and Comcast.
I think that Verizon is going to become a lot more interested in negociating with Vonage after this ruling. Why? Because if Vonage goes bankrupt, Verizon is likely to get squat in bankruptcy court. They don't have a lot of physical assets. They have a customer base - a loyal one. How many Vonage customers, having already switched from an RBOC, are going to switch BACK voluntarily?
Verizon viewed this as a way to get a piece of a growing market without having to invest anything. tey were going to use the patent to force Vonage to charge a "Verizon Tax" on their customers, which would make the service less attractive to users and maybe send somefolks back to the RBOC's - not to mention the fat licensing fees. But the judge may have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
(to the tune of, woo woo, wo woo woo, from the vonage commercial)
woo woo, we got sued!!!
woo woo, we got sued!!!
woo woo, we got sued!!!
woo woo, woo woo,
woo woo, we got sued!!!
Bye Bye!
RIM was sideswiped by (arguably) a patent troll who had no tangible product, no customers, and nobody had ever heard of.
This is a lawsuit brought by a well-funded telephone company (the largest LEC in the United States, and one of the largest telecom companies on the planet). Wall Street will respond negatively to this news once it starts circulating.
The news is just now hitting the wire, and Vonage stock has already taken a 10% beating. Once the announcements are made by Vonage and Verizon later this afternoon, expect the stock to be in penny-stock territory range on Monday once trading ends.
That does not bode well for Vonage as a company.
Verizon fully intends, through the courts, to shut Vonage down. It appears, effectively, they have.
Next week's news story: Verizon acquires a majority stake in Vonage as a "settlement" to the lawsuit, and begins "transitioning Vonage customers to Verizon's VoIP offering". Six months down the road, Vonage will quietly cease operations, after Verizon uses the leverage of their stock position to shutter the company after all customers have been moved off Vonage's revenue column.
Let's see, Vonage builds ... nothing and sells little boxes to people to connect to their Internet connection. This then connects to a couple of termination sites that either connect to other Vonage customers (maybe) or just dumps the call out on the standard telephone network.
Yes, individual calls out cost them something, but that infrastructure is built and maintained by the other companies. Generally, by the people too dumb to have switched away to Vonage and their VOIP ilk.
The problem is that Vonage is 100% dependent on the telephone network they are competing with. They are selling a service which requires their competitor to operate. This is generally a bad business model, except it can generate extremely high profits for a short period of time. Vonage can't put Verizon out of business as it would eliminate their ability to operate.
Of course having a leech syphoning off the high-value residential customers does nothing but piss Verizon, AT&T and others off. This has been coming for a long time and it isn't over yet. I would guess some telecom company finds some way to put every one of the leeching VOIP services like Vonage and Lingo out of business soon.
So, let's play this game - we'll even name it something like China. You the player spend oh 5 years researching and creatnig some neato' keen scientificly designed product but you don't Patent it because well you just don't roll that way. So you bring this thing to market and it's really kewl but it's kind of expensive because afterall you have all those years of R&D to pay for and a family to feed. 2 months after having released your neato' keen device to market sales sharply drop. Gee, why is that? Oh wait, someone else is playing the game too. Only they are playing it a little different. Seems they were one of your very first customers only instead of using your product they took it apart, duplicated the pieces, and are now making them too - for 1/4 your asking price. They paid nothing for R&D other than the time spent reversing your product and because they have no R&D tail to pay for they aren't deep in the red like you were when you started. No patent so you have no way to fight them - now what? Two months is actually not a crazy estimate either BTW, hell these days you're likely to hand them the plans to manufacture your precious widget anyway. 5mins after the plans hit their desk they are being duped. Worse they might even run the production line double time - you get the products built during the day, they sell the products they built at night. Whoops, how do you fix that exactly? Think this through....
The patent system right now SUX, I'll grant that. However it doesn't suck because the idea is completely bad it sucks because the patent office grants overly broad patents and because we have a judicial branch running amuck making decisions on technology they barely understand. Dumping the patent system while nice in fantasy land isn't going to necessarily mean that it will make things better. China, and other countries, are copying products with little to no R&D like mad and undercutting the real companies making these products. The result is that some of the companies are losing their ass due to R&D costs - what you propose, nuking the patent system, would allow this with no penalty. You sure that's what you want?
Oh and yes people invented things before patents. Then they VERY closely held onto that information for fear that others would benefit from it if it was shared with anyone other than maybe an apprentice. They didn't simply tell every Tom, Dick, and Harry, who wandered by how to do the thing that allowed them to make a living I promise you. There also wasn't this huge global information system that would allow the information to spread like wildfire.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Vonage has until 4/12/07 before the new injunction takes effect. (The new injunction barring new customers which replaced the old injunction that would have shut Vonage down today if it had been implemented.)
If you get Gizmo Project and Grand Central, and configure the latter to use the former, you can get unlimited inbound calls for free.
I've been very happy with my Vonage service, and I hope they'll win this one in court eventually. If they don't, I'll reconfigure my Vonage hardware to use another SIP provider (like Gizmo Project): I'll switch back to TPC when heck freezes over.
As a Canadian Vonage user, my interest in this case is going to be how it affects me -- but nobody seems to be talking about what might happen to the Canadian (or UK) subsidiaries should Vonage US go down.
It appears that Vonage Canada (and presumably UK) is a wholly-owned, seperate company, and isn't directly constrained by the patent suit (as Verizon has no Canadian presence or patents). However, it is my understanding that Vonage Canada relies pretty heavily on the Vonage US network for call routing (although it is also my understanding that it has been gaining a bit more independence in the past year).
So what happens if Vonage US goes into receivership? Presumably holdings like Vonage Canada and Vonage UK will go on sale. I suspect Vonage Canada's call quality might suffer if they don't put contingency plans in place now, but that if they can stave off the loss of customers due to the US network folding, it could potentially survive (in which case, the 4 Vonage lines I have in my home, and the Vonage lines family and friends have thanks to my recommendation could keep working). But then again, if Vonage Canada isn't all that profitable (I have no idea if they are or not), they could fold up as well.
For now I'm waiting it out, but if anyone has any better info on what could be expected for the Canadian and UK subsidiaries, I'd certainly be interested in learning more.
Yaz.