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Two Worm "Families" Make Up Most Botnets

JMoon writes "HNS has an article about the Sdbot and Gaobot families which are responsible for most botnets worldwide. These two families were responsible for 80 percent of detections related to bots during the first quarter of 2007. Other culprits, although on a much lesser scale, included Oscarbot, IRCbot or RXbot."

176 comments

  1. Well, you see, by GodFjotten · · Score: 3, Funny

    viruses kinda runs in the family...

    1. Re:Well, you see, by Ngarrang · · Score: 2, Funny

      The FTC should file a lawsuit against those two worms. In this day and age, we should have the freedom to choose whichever worm we prefer to infect our system. What if I want a completely different family of worm on my system? Did these virus writers think of that? Feh on them.

      --
      Bearded Dragon
  2. And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Informative

    Recently, I had to put an SP1 WinXP online to demonstrate that it's (still) insecure to do that. I was expecting that the blaster menace has somewhat dwindled since its outbreak, simply 'cause it's been a while since its outbreak.

    Boy, was I wrong!

    It took 10 seconds for the FTP to go berserk, a minute later I was a happy member of the still strongly going family of wormspreaders.

    People simply don't update their systems. It's amazing, that thing is afaik about 5 years old now, and still there are a LOT of machines existing that still blow the worm through the net.

    We're not talking about an unfixable problem, or at least one where the user has to be dumb enough to open the can for the worm (ok, bad pun). It's as simple as updateing to SP2, something that works automatically.

    You actually have to disable MS Messenger to at least cease to get those annoying popup messages, so why can people disable that but not update their systems? That's simply beyond my comprehension.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:And that won't change soon by someone1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I still wonder why no one wrote some code which wipes those rogue bots off (along with the terminally ill host).

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    2. Re:And that won't change soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's as simple as updateing to SP2, something that works automatically.

      Updating to SP2 isn't simple though. It's a massive download if you're on dailup or even a slow DSL connection. On top of that it takes up a lot of disk space/RAM and if you have anything but latest high-speed machine you're going to be sitting there waiting a long time while it installs.

    3. Re:And that won't change soon by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably so many XP users are on license keys that have been disabled by Microsoft Genuine Advantage so that they can't upgrade to SP2, so they're left compromised and unable to defend themselves by remaining patched by Automatic Updates.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    4. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You mean the amount of bandwidth wasted by that bot within less than a day is less than that, yes?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm... then to fix that bot problem, all we'd have to do is report the IP Addresses hammering against our firewalls as potential pirates? In the current hype and the leeway IP holders get when filing suits and pressing Names from the ISPs, it should be easy to instill enough fear in those upgrade-resistant people ...

      I have a plan. Thanks for helping me on the track.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:And that won't change soon by Kristoph · · Score: 1

      If Microsoft Genuine Advantage turned off these people they already know their IP address and they choose not to do anything about it.

      ]{

    7. Re:And that won't change soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also the other problem with this is

      1 - Most users are unaware of the need for a patch. when there pc gets infected they just think 'ah thats how computers are, they are really slow etc'
      2 - SP2 should download automatically in the background even on a fresh install, sometimes it does not. even if it was to install successfully the chances are the machine has already been infected. It takes 1 or 2 minutes for a machine to become infected.

      People need to be educated about the type of risks out there. but what we have is company's like norton that do not push this type of education, instead they will push there products first.

      MS can not warn these people mainly because a lot of them have pirated copy's of xp.

      I think this problem will take 10 years or so to clean up

    8. Re:And that won't change soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    9. Re:And that won't change soon by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      On top of that it takes up a lot of disk space/RAM

      It's 2007. A couple hundred megs isn't a lot of disk space.
      Come to think of it, a couple hundred megs is an average amount of RAM.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

    10. Re:And that won't change soon by bogjobber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That might be part of the problem, but I'm sure there are more people out there that simply don't upgrade. Every time I visit my sister and/or parents house I make sure to do it, because they never download or install updates. If it wasn't for me I doubt they'd have gotten SP2.

    11. Re:And that won't change soon by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's an idea, but I'd recommend against it. So many legitimate license keys have been disabled by Microsoft that it would affect a huge number of innocent users who've had their key disabled because MS felt like it.

      I have seen firsthand and heard countless confirmations of people re-installing XP on their OEM system using the license key from the sticker that was glued to their system case, and being rejected by Microsoft's Product Activation. I'm not sure the reason behind this, but I'd guess that most likely some keygen hacker program ended up randomly generating the same key and was used enough times that MS decided to distrust that key anymore.

      In my case, I was helping out a friend of the family with getting their laptop back in service after it had been hopelessly compromised by malware. I entered the key from the sticker on the bottom of their laptop, and Product Activation failed. I called the 1-800 number that Microsoft said to call, and went through all their steps to generate a new number, but it just told me that I was rejected and that my number was in fact really no good. I had no recourse, no appeal, no live body to talk to on the phone. So I did the only thing I could do to return the system to service, and used a Corporate license key that didn't need to be run through Product Activation and would not trip of on WGA.

      Now, you might say that pissing off all these legitimate users would actually be a good thing, because it will ultimately help Microsoft to shoot its foot clean off by enraging masses of legitimately licensed end users who've been disconnected from the net because they couldn't maintain their systems properly because MS couldn't validate their license even though it wasn't pirated. But I don't think it's quite fair to say that every license key that fails to pass WGA is ipso facto a pirate user. If you block everyone on suspicion of running an unpatched, compromised, pirated OS, you're going to affect a lot of screwed paying customers. As long as they rightfully blame Microsoft for being the cause of their woes, you should be in the clear. If the collateral damage is worth it, then I guess it's not a bad plan.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    12. Re:And that won't change soon by toleraen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually just running windows update will fix both of the named worms...so even if you do get infected with either of them, once you finally get your updates it should fix it.

    13. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 1

      We're not talking about an unfixable problem, Excuse me? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be the one to globetrot to every idiots winblows machine and patch them up! Better bring extra underwear for that trip....
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
    14. Re:And that won't change soon by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 1

      Might as well turn on automatic updating while you are on their machines. Maybe even install some spyware cleaners too.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    15. Re:And that won't change soon by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      So I did the only thing I could do to return the system to service, and used a Corporate license key that didn't need to be run through Product Activation and would not trip of on WGA.
       
      I wouldn't dream of doing this. If someone has problem with Windows and asks me for help my usual response is that I really don't know too much about Windows. Which is actually true.
       
      Were I in your situation as described, I would be more inclinded to say, "Sorry, you'll have to deal with Microsoft directly on this one." and leave it at that.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    16. Re:And that won't change soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost any Dell laptop running WinXP Pro will fail WGA if you try to reinstall it. I know of three people who have purchased new copies of WinXP Pro to solve this problem.

    17. Re:And that won't change soon by eli+pabst · · Score: 1
      Someone tried to do that a few years ago (remember Welchia) and it caused more harm than good with widespread internet congestion and critical systems getting rebooted.

      Worm description:

      W32.Welchia.B.Worm is a variant of W32.Welchia.Worm. If the version of the operating system of the infected machine is Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Traditional), Korean, or English, the worm will attempt to download the Microsoft Workstation Service Buffer Overrun and Microsoft Messenger Service Buffer Overrun patches from the Microsoft® Windows Update Web site, install it, and then restart the computer.The worm also attempts to remove the W32.Mydoom.A@mm and W32.Mydoom.B@mm worms.
      http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup. jsp?docid=2004-021115-2540-99
    18. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, you have to look at it this way, reporting those bots as pirates is a win-win situation. You use up the legal fund of the mafiaa and keep their sharks busy, and you get rid of bots.

      I don't want to report the WGA failures, I want to report the bot IP Addies. If nothing else, it might give clueless people an incentive to update their system or get the hell out of the 'net.

      Either way is fine with me.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:And that won't change soon by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Yes, updating is as simple as a single click. It may take a while, but it isn't complicated. If you can't afford a couple hunndred megs of storage, broadband connection, and a firewall, you shouldn't complain about getting owned after 25 seconds online. You can also get SP2 on a CD mailed to you directly from Microsoft .

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    20. Re:And that won't change soon by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      "I think this problem will take 10 years or so to clean up"

      26
      138
      12.654


      See? I also enjoy pulling random numbers out of my ass...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    21. Re:And that won't change soon by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      All that breaks is automatic updates. You can still manually download the updates. If you are smart enough to figure out how to get a pirate copy of Windows, you should be smart enough to figure out how to manually patch. Don't want to? Then get a legit version...

      And yes, I am aware of a small percentage of legitimate users who had their licences invalidated. If that is the case, a simple 5 minute call to MS will have you up and rolling again. But don't try to blow smoke up anyone's ass and claim most of the disabled versions were legit.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    22. Re:And that won't change soon by Cramer · · Score: 1

      That's 100% bull. Any running installation can install SP2. Only OFFICE patches blacklist keys. You still won't pass validation (without some tweaking), but SP2 will indeed install. (If you are trying to install from a SP2 integrated disc, then it's a different story.)

    23. Re:And that won't change soon by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      All that breaks is automatic updates. You can still manually download the updates. If you are smart enough to figure out how to get a pirate copy of Windows, you should be smart enough to figure out how to manually patch. Don't want to? Then get a legit version...
      Or don't do it, which is also their choice.

      For the first time since win98 I'm actually on a legit copy of windows. I leave autoupdate on but usually take a few weeks to reboot after it grabs one because frankly, I don't really care. Half the time updates are for things I don't care about, it's not like microsoft admits something is a patch to a vulnerability. Heres a good example, right now I have an update waiting..

      Initializing installation... done!
      Installing Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (KB905474) (update 1 of 1)...


      Yippie. Kind of makes me miss running debian on the desktop, at least Apt never told me to install something stupid like that.

      When I was on an illegit copy of XP, I just used a patched windows update and the same "I'll reboot when I reboot, if it installs an update at the same time so be it" attitude.

      The only questionable things I have installed are DRM-related things bundled with other services, and "helper tasks" for stuff I only used once. Try out vmware for a few days? Have vmwares network stuff running 24/7 after that. Get a new ipod? Prepare for 5-6 new services/tasks thanks to iTunes.
      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    24. Re:And that won't change soon by Dan_Bercell · · Score: 2, Informative

      I called the 1-800 number that Microsoft said to call, and went through all their steps to generate a new number, but it just told me that I was rejected and that my number was in fact really no good. I had no recourse, no appeal, no live body to talk to on the phone

      Through that 1-800 number you can eventually make it to a person. You can then read off your 48 digit number and they will give you another 48-digit number. They will then ask you the same questions they ask everyone and you will be on your way. I often have to call this number for OEM workstations.

    25. Re:And that won't change soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like amateurs like you. Makes me look that much better. First off... 'hopelessly compromised' by malware. No such thing if you know what you're doing. They are removable if you know what tools to use. Ad aware and spybot are not enough. Second, Try hitting ZERO a few times when you call Microsoft. 24 hour live operators. They'll validate your key no problem. I've done this close to a hundred times in the last couple years. Your key may be on a 'no auto activate' list, but they will do at as long as you tell them its only being used on one computer.

    26. Re:And that won't change soon by lolocaust · · Score: 1

      I remember being amused by W32.Welchia.Worm when it infected my WinXPsp1 installation, since all it did was look for Blaster and erase it. Unfortunately, it used the exact same spreading mechanism that blaster did and used up a whole load of traffic. I guess it was a good way to get to the computers that were vunerable to Blaster.

      --
      Why does my post history abruptly stop? I want to laugh at the stupid things I posted as a kid.
    27. Re:And that won't change soon by andy_t_roo · · Score: 1

      i've a dell laptop with xp pro on it (about 6 months old). last month i re-installed xp pro and did not have a problem with activation.

    28. Re:And that won't change soon by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Recently, I had to put an SP1 WinXP online to demonstrate that it's (still) insecure to do that. I was expecting that the blaster menace has somewhat dwindled since its outbreak, simply 'cause it's been a while since its outbreak.

      Clearly, you didn't turn on the firewall. Why not ?

    29. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      For the same reason why I didn't install patches, to show that there are still machines out there who're spreading worms that are like 5 years old.

      Btw, I'm not sure whether SP1 actually came with a FW. If it did, for some reason it is not on by default. Which was also part of the demonstration, what happens if you (or rather, a clueless user) just installs his XP anew and hooks it into the 'net.

      What stuns me more than that XP SP1 is insecure (no, duh!) is that there are appearantly still thousands if not millions of machines running it, directly connected to the internet. In my eyes, that is grossly negligent.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    30. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that you (or me, or anyone) should travel the world and fix machines. It's the duty of every user of the internet to keep his machine from being a danger to it. My position is, get your machine patched or get the hell out!

      I'm not expecting people to be secure against 0day attacks or to be able to write their own fixes. But we're talking a security problem here that is about FIVE years old, and the fix for it is not that much younger!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    31. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the duty of every user of the internet to keep his machine from being a danger to it. With respect, I disagree. Do you really expect grandma to understand the necessity of patching their operating system? No way! It's the duty of OPERATION SYSTEM VENDORS to build products that auto-patch in a robust way. Sadly, Windows update is one of the best out there - but still, we need a lot more work in this direction.
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
    32. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then why do machines exist that don't get updated? Why do people turn off that feature?

      The burden of security is not only on the shoulders of the vendor. When I buy a car (I know, car analogies are bad, and I hate them just as much, but they are so easy to understand), I do expect the breaks, airbags, safety belts and whatnot to function. But I can't simply go and just hit the throttle, not caring what stands in my way 'cause "the vendor should take care of that".

      So yes, I do expect people to turn on the security features that exist. I do expect them to know that they're there and I do expect them to know what happens when they turn them off. I don't remember that access to the 'net was supposedly a human right. So I guess it's a privilege.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    33. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 1

      Then why do machines exist that don't get updated? Why do people turn off that feature? These features are turned on by default. Grandma does NOT even KNOW how to turn this off. It's that lack of a robust OS that causes this problem. It's very easy for malware, network software bloat, poor 3rd party "security" software or default crapware that OEM's install that really shuts this stuff down, not an intentional action by the end user. It's still the burden of the OS vendor IMBFO.
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
    34. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately I know for a fact that there are enough people out there who deliberately shut down auto-update features because (and that's the funny part) "they don't like it when their system does something they have no control over".

      Good idea. The problem is just that this opens the system to actually bad software that they have no control over. If they'd follow that notion to the conclusion, they'd have to take responsibility for their system, which they don't.

      Btw, so far I don't know any "security" software worth the name (notice those last 3 words please before replying) that would turn off any of the system's auto-update features.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    35. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 1
      I'm talking about ignorant people (folks who just don't know - the OS Vendor needs to help them) and you are talking about idiots (folks who purposely do something foolish - no one can help these folks, maybe ISP's should be noting this at the network level and shut down their service?).

      Btw, so far I don't know any "security" software worth the name ... that would turn off any of the system's auto-update features. I agree. But in the past Symantec, Kespersky, McAffee - all the big vendors (since they are large targets) have been the targets of vulnerabilities in the products themselves that would render even a fully patched machine vulnerable for a reasonable windows of time. In short, the security industry is "poor" at best at writing software. We are just fucked until folks start to consider writing software as an engineering task instead of the hackety crap we see today.
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
    36. Re:And that won't change soon by ProfFalcon · · Score: 1

      Then why do machines exist that don't get updated? Why do people turn off that feature? These features are turned on by default. Grandma does NOT even KNOW how to turn this off. It's that lack of a robust OS that causes this problem. It's very easy for malware, network software bloat, poor 3rd party "security" software or default crapware that OEM's install that really shuts this stuff down, not an intentional action by the end user. It's still the burden of the OS vendor IMBFO.

      If there is a safety recall because the car explodes when someone throws a rock at it, grandma gets a letter in the mail. She has to get in the car, drive down to the dealership and wait while it gets fixed.

      Problem exists, send notification and allow the user to do it. It's much easier to click "auto-install these updates, please" than it is to get into a car, drive to the dealership and wait.

      What do I know, though? I'm a Linux user...

      --
      Simply stating [Citation Needed] does not automatically make you insightful or brilliant.
    37. Re:And that won't change soon by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Well, instead of patching the systems, they should be WIPED. I meant it, wiped completely bare. As a less radical alternative, ISP's should block those machines. But it is always easier to write a bot than negotiating with ISP's all over the world. So yeah, wipe them, that would surely not cause any network congestion, it would rather be unusually silent finally.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    38. Re:And that won't change soon by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Hasn't happened to any of my keys. (I have a list of ~100.) And I've not heard of any issues with those installed with the keygen keys, which logically would be simple to ban.

    39. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 1

      If there is a safety recall because the car explodes when someone throws a rock at it Yes, I hear where you are coming from. But driving your computer on the internet without patches is like driving your cat without oil. Security problems with the internet is a reality, not an exception like your rock throwing example. What I'm saying is that patching your computer is like the need to change your oil - except I want OS manufactures to have self-changing oil systems that work better instead of forcing that on the consumer. :)
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
    40. Re:And that won't change soon by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Same reason why MS keeps getting picked apart: Widely spread software is an attack vector.

      You won't find similar problems with less widely spread security software (as with every other software that has no market share larger than 10%). In other words, until they stop creating that "hackety crap", security lies in less widely spread software.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    41. Re:And that won't change soon by Heembo · · Score: 1

      In other words, until they stop creating that "hackety crap", security lies in less widely spread software. Although your logic is reasonable, it's not 100% sound - take a look at any of the small small e-commerce websites. Are you going to trust some no name website with your credit card information and the like? No way! Throw AppScan, Cenzic or Spi at any small e-commerce website and you will find all kinds of holes. Track the BugTraq mailing list and you will see holes in small websites and minor products on a daily basis. And now with the advent of fuzzing software, even no name products or proprietary systems can be (at least) DOS'ed in a trivial way. Only use well written, pier reviewed software that is deployed as part of a defense-in-depth strategy.
      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
  3. Reduced diversity. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Q1 2007: 80% from two families.

    2006: 74% from these families.

    Hmm. Too bad bots reproduce asexually, otherwise we could hope for inbreeding to take them out.

    Seriously, though, is the decreased diversity in bot "heritage" a good thing -- does it mean that bot infections are easier to detect and treat?

    Or does it not make any bit of difference until the typical user learns to protect their PC?

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Reduced diversity. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Seriously, though, is the decreased diversity in bot "heritage" a good thing -- does it mean that bot infections are easier to detect and treat? Or does it not make any bit of difference until the typical user learns to protect their PC?

      Your answer: "yes". Now where's my cookie?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Reduced diversity. by maxume · · Score: 1

      It isn't clear to me that the drop means anything at all. If it represents some huge number of machines that are no longer bots, great, but if they didn't detect 15 instances of some other network, who cares(anecdotally, it appears that there are still many many infected machines).

      Seeing as they are probably classifying the families based on the control systems, it probably just means that the authors of these particular networks are just working harder on newer exploits than other networks.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Reduced diversity. by Billosaur · · Score: 1

      Until either a) the average Net user's savvy increases and they take steps to protect their personal systems or b) systems are developed that don't require the user's interaction to provide adequate defense, the number of bots will increase steadily. Bots using the same base code but with variations will always be easier to track than completely new strains, but I think at this point the mechanisms for bot injection are so well known that that this will end up being the best way to control them. And even that will simply force the black hats to come up with new and inventive ways of duping people. The end point of the power of the botnet starts with the user taking control of their box and learning to defend it.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    4. Re:Reduced diversity. by houghi · · Score: 2, Informative

      It does not mean anything. The only thing it means is that those two families are more successfull then the others.
      If the remaining 20% is less then the remaining 26% in numbers, that could mean that some other families are faded out and/or that it is harder to remove those two families.
      If the 26% and 20% are the same, it just means that those two families are spreading faster then the rest.
      If the 20% is more then the 26%, then it would mean that in general we are winning the battle slowly.

      By itself it means absolutely nothing. Also you would need to know how they are being put out there. If there are just a few that are realy pushing those two families, then it is no wonder that there are more of them.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Reduced diversity. by m50d · · Score: 1
      Seriously, though, is the decreased diversity in bot "heritage" a good thing -- does it mean that bot infections are easier to detect and treat?

      I wouldn't think so. You can usually tell pretty easily (heck, just look at the lights on the network card), and removing an unknown bot once you know it's there isn't (in my limited experience) really any harder than one you've dealt with before. I suppose it does make automated removal tools more effective, but personally I don't use the things.

      --
      I am trolling
    6. Re:Reduced diversity. by noamsml · · Score: 1
      Noam anti-spyware has detected malicious activity
      Name: Milk.Cookies.H567
      Type: Tracking Cookie
      Risk: Low

      Fix / Quarentine / Delete / Do Nothing

  4. Lets rename them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I say we rename them.
    One should be "Curious Yellow"
    the other "Curious Blue"

    http://blanu.net/curious_yellow.html

  5. Non Windows Bots by pembo13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Any information on non-Windows bots? I know bots are forever trying to get into SSH, so that must means non Windows machines are being targeted, but I am curious as to the success-rate.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:Non Windows Bots by Gheesh · · Score: 1

      I, too, would like to see some success rate figures for these attacks. I'm not sure, however, that this constant SSH knocking comes from bots rather than programs run on purpose... Do you have some info on that?

    2. Re:Non Windows Bots by Anon-Admin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't think those are bots.

      I noticed my servers SSH port being hit a few years ago. I moved it to another port, locked the port down, then set up an SSH honey pot on the standard port. The honey pot attempts to ID people from programs using a verity of methods such as space between key strokes and use of the backspace or delete key.

      I found that once the attacking software appeared to have access to the server, A person would login and check it out. Most of them attempted to use wget to dump a root kit onto the server. I have grabbed copies of the software they attempt to down load and checked it out.

      It normally consists of a root kit, network scanner, packet sniffer, and the scanning software to scan and hack SSH.

      I think these are wannabe hacker kids trying to get in.

    3. Re:Non Windows Bots by garcia · · Score: 1

      They never make it into my machine and every time I see a login flood that hasn't already been auto banned, I add the IP block to my ban list (usually a /24 unless it's a foreign ISP and then I ban the entire thing (usually a /16 and sometimes the entire /8).

    4. Re:Non Windows Bots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm AC because I'm at work, but I would be extremely grateful if you would throw together a webpage that had instructions on how to do this.

    5. Re:Non Windows Bots by Anon-Admin · · Score: 4, Informative

      For you or anyone who wants to know more about the software and setup. Go to my website, http://www.xganon.com/ and send me an e-mail. Just select the "Contact Us" button and fill out the info. Ill e-mail you back and we can go over the software (open source) and how to set it up.

      I am always willing to help people secure a system. :)

    6. Re:Non Windows Bots by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Purely assumption that they are bots based on the fact that I've seen a lot of them, even on my my fairly paranoid university LAN, likely from laptops connecting via wifi.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    7. Re:Non Windows Bots by noamsml · · Score: 1

      I've been looking through some server logs to figure out what caused a random shutdown at certain times, and one thing I've investigated was the possibility of an intrusion via SSH. I didn't find one, but I did find lots of attempts. All of them were trying to log in to common usernames such as root, user, web, etc. I suppose they used common passwords too, but I couldn't find out. Thankfully, all of our usernames were uncommon, and root login via SSH was disabled, so we are relatively safe on that count.

    8. Re:Non Windows Bots by en4ca · · Score: 1

      Fail2Ban is also a great tool for banning repeated attacks against SSH, apache, etc. Its what I use.

  6. Make a CD by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you are stuck with dialup, get a friend to download the SP2 CD and burn it for you.

    If you have DSL or Cable and nothing else on your LAN is infected, your NAT or other firewall should protect you from "out of the box" threats. As long as you stick to known-safe web sites like windowsupdate and most security-software vendors, you should be OK long enough to get updated.

    What's that? You are on DSL or Cable and do NOT have a firewall? Spend a few bucks and get one!

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Make a CD by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's that? You are on DSL or Cable and do NOT have a firewall? Spend a few bucks and get one!

      That one bears repeating. If you want to run windows, you are simply going to have to run it behind an idenpendent firewall, unless you enough of a security expert to be able to outline a IP packet without looking at the books. If you are too cheap or poor to get one, (k)ubuntu is right over there. CD's to be had for a couple of euros, and with the refund for the windows license, you're even going to save a few dollars or euros.

      This goes for Windows up to and including the XP. Never been near Vistas, but from I hear, it's the same deal.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    2. Re:Make a CD by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you are too cheap or poor to get one, (k)ubuntu is right over there.
      The various Linux distros are certainly more secure than Windows, but I'm not sure I'd trust them on a naked broadband connection either. There are still vulnerabilities for people to take advantage of - fewer, certainly, but they're still there.
      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    3. Re:Make a CD by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      You are on DSL or Cable and do NOT have a firewall? Spend a few bucks and get one!

      Spend money on one?! Dear oh dear..

      Zonealarm (requires annoying popups asking you to buy),
      Agnitum (requires reg),
      Kerio (reverts to free features after 30 days),
      Comodo (totally free as it's an advert for Comodo other products)

    4. Re:Make a CD by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      There are still vulnerabilities for people to take advantage of - fewer, certainly, but they're still there.

      I'm using a Linux (CentOS) box as a firewall for my Windows network. Can you give me an example of the vulnerabilities you mention? I'd like to know how much risk I'm taking.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:Make a CD by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      I'm using a Linux (CentOS) box as a firewall for my Windows network. Can you give me an example of the vulnerabilities you mention? I'd like to know how much risk I'm taking.

      I think you kind of missed his point...

    6. Re:Make a CD by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      He was claiming Linux is too vulnerable to use as an internet facing box. My Linux firewall is connected to the internet. Is it vulnerable?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    7. Re:Make a CD by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      He was claiming Linux is too vulnerable to use as an internet facing box. My Linux firewall is connected to the internet. Is it vulnerable?

      Depends what you're letting through the firewall. Which is the point - if there's a firewall blocking the traffic, OS vulnerabilities are mostly moot.

    8. Re:Make a CD by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      if there's a firewall blocking the traffic, OS vulnerabilities are mostly moot.

      Perhaps you'd better have a look at Linux firewalling - it's performed inside the Linux kernel http://www.netfilter.org/. If the Linux OS is vulnerable when it's internet facing, then so is the firewall.

      The OP was spreading FUD, and (s)he's been called on it.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  7. There's a reason for that. by Spazntwich · · Score: 5, Informative

    SDBot is incredibly popular because it's open source and easily modified to sneak past most AV software with minor changes. It also has an extremely wide array of features, and tends to be very reliable.

    People without the knowledge to code their own trojan/bot from scratch will naturally gravitate towards tools which allow them to make their money more easily, and it's a real time saver.

    Or so I hear.

    1. Re:There's a reason for that. by bcattwoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      SDBot is incredibly popular because it's open source

      Yeah, I used to Oscarbot, but the EULA with their latest upgrade was freakin' joke! Then they dropped support for Oscarbot 98, meanwhile their crappy software isn't even compatible with Vista. Thank God for OSS!

  8. Families of Virii by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

    Not sure if the article wants me to be surprised by this. What percent of all virii in humans are in the family of the common cold or influenza?
    There has to be some kind of parallel here.

    Weird, but as I was writing this something tried to change my default search page. Usually I wouldn't say this, but I hope it was Microsoft ;p

    TLF

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
  9. Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by davidwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not sure if botnets have "signature" activity that's easy for an ISP to spot or not.

    If they do, then getting ISPs to proactively monitor their customers for botnet-specific activities and phone them when they see suspicious activity will go a long way toward eliminating these particular threats.

    Imagine if your mother getting this answering-machine message from her DSL provider:
    "Hello Ms. Jones. You've heard of computer viruses? Our engineers are seeing signs of a virus on one of your computers. Please visit our security web site at http://www.momsisp.com./ This same web site is printed on your billing statement. In the meantime, we are taking steps to keep the virus from spreading. This may affect your connection. We will remove these blocks automatically when we see your system is clean. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-MOM-SISP. Thank you."

    Her next call will probably be to you. Problem solved.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > Her next call will probably be to you. Problem solved.

      No. Money spent and customer antagonized.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by vertinox · · Score: 2, Funny

      Her next call will probably be to you. Problem solved.

      And for those who don't have geek relatives...

      Her next call will be to the ISP's tech in India who will say to call Microsoft who to says to call your OEM-Computer Vendor who says to call your Anti-virus vendor who tells you to call your local Geek squad who then proceeds to just somehow fry your video card while formatting your computer.

      Problem solved! Oh wait...

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    3. Re:Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by TerminalWriter · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually, I had this happen, although it wasn't a phone call.

      My roommate set up a box and I guess he didn't finish patching it or something, because in less than a week, we got e-mail and snail mail from our ISP informing us of our PC that was scanning ports and more than likely had a virus. We took it off the network, but still haven't taken the time to wipe it and clean install it.

    4. Re:Does this make it easier for ISPs to spot them? by nostrad · · Score: 1

      I seem to recognize this. One of my friends got infected (family runs business and a server on NT4). I get there, disconnects router from ISP and gets to work. ISP calls, in 5 minutes your connection will be cut off.

      Reasoning that no computer from the old network is connected wouldn't work. 5 minutes later and my rather old snort install can't be updated. Concluded that it was most likely the server (only computer that spit out weird traffic).

      Conclusion: Your scenario is already in action if they spot suspicious traffic, and they've got no log of what triggered it so they won't aid you in your hunt.

  10. Bot Nostalgia by br0d · · Score: 1

    I miss good old days, when all bots did was greet you, spit out dumb jokes, or print trite quotes on IRC. !spin !acro !seen Bananarama !cook me some bacon and eggs bitch

    1. Re:Bot Nostalgia by jginspace · · Score: 1

      "I miss good old days, when all bots did was greet you, spit out dumb jokes, or print trite quotes on IRC."

      Actually they were people. They've all moved on now buddy!

    2. Re:Bot Nostalgia by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it has sucked ever since old Bob quit...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
  11. Liability... by msimm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you write a piece of code that's going to spread through unpatched computer networks you're creating a worm. Not only that, but if you make a mistake and this piece of code somehow (unforeseeably) damages any thing you will be in a world of hurt.

    Either way, the law doesn't look to kindly on computer trespass even if (you *claim*) your intentions are good.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:Liability... by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, you are going to be in the same position as the folks that create botnets. We see every day how these people are treated.

      Are they arrested in thrown in jail? No, they are living very well in Russia from their ill-gotten gains.

      There is no liability unless you are a complete idiot.

    2. Re:Liability... by fm6 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, they are living very well in Russia from their ill-gotten gains. So if I write a counter-bot, I get to go live in Russia? What an incentive!
    3. Re:Liability... by bcattwoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, you are going to be in the same position as the folks that create botnets. We see every day how these people are treated.

      Are they arrested in thrown in jail? No, they are living very well in Russia from their ill-gotten gains.

      There is no liability unless you are a complete idiot. Or don't want to live in Russia.
    4. Re:Liability... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Either way, the law doesn't look to kindly on computer trespass even if (you *claim*) your intentions are good.

      "Your honor, the camera I installed in her bedroom was intended to be a security camera. For burglars, you know..."
    5. Re:Liability... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you bounce it through a Russian system. You can see how tightly those are monitored.

    6. Re:Liability... by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Funny

      When I ever feel the urge to move to Russia, I'm gonna do that. Promised.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Dialups aren't good Bot fodder anyway by billstewart · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If you're on a slow DSL, yes, it'll take a while to download SP2. Big deal - run it at night, and you've now *had* a couple of years, so realistically what you're talking about is installing an upgraded OS on your upgraded PC, so you could do the download on your old machine before you plug the new one in.


    A large fraction of the problem can be taken care of by using a hardware firewall in front of your PC from the moment you first plug it in, which'll usually keep you safe long enough to get the current security upgrades. That's not fool-proof - there are bad guys hunting for flaws in popular firewall boxes - but it's a good start.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  13. Ask Robert Morris by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 4, Informative

    Though he did not get jail time, he still was convicted. http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/6805/articles/morris-w orm.html

  14. A valid botnet .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Thought this would be an interesting point to add about botnets and security.

    2 years ago I almost gave our security people a heart attack when I suggested an internal botnet.

    We have most of our servers plugged into a tightly controlled IRC server.
    All servers run a custom bot with limited access that pipe all critical files into specific IRC channels.

    Response bots monitor the channels and take appropriate action, signaling the bots to run specific commands, paging, emailing, etc.

    It allows NOC to run things like 'uptime' and have dozens of servers reply at once.

    Security it tightly controlled at the bot and server level, using a custom hacked and very locked down UnlreaIRCd.

    For our security at least, it was the first example of a useful IRC setup that allowed easy monitoring and limited control of servers.

    As bad as botnets are, they are very good at what they do.
    Good example of allowing totally unrelated applications to communicate with each other, as basically all programming languages have IRC support.

    And a funny side note, my slashdot "verification image" is "misuse" ....

    1. Re:A valid botnet .. by Ultra64 · · Score: 1

      I'd like to hear more about your implementation, mind sharing?

    2. Re:A valid botnet .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Our setup is fairly simple.
      The bots are all stored in our Subversion repository.
      To install the bot they run a simple script along the lines of -
      wget http://repos/installer | perl

      The IRC server is the next pert, UnrealIRCd running modules such as NSAuth (among others).

      Can't login without a user/pass, can't create a channel that isn't defined, can't /msg anyone.
      Can only msg in channels, and all non-bot chatter is logged.
      Can't talk in log channels, but if you have permissions you can enter and watch the logs.

      The bots are the only ones with permission to /msg a channel. They don't join the channels, only
      message them so they don't see peer logs.

      Its also custom hacked to do the opposite of most IRC servers, flooding gets priority.
      If your client can't keep up, you get kicked, not the bots. This ensures the log files continue at full pace.

      For monitoring we have applications running on monitoring servers that watch the log channels, when things happen they take action.
      Usually actions are to page someone, or join a "command channel" and issue a command to the bots.
      They also monitor IRC chatter.

      The bots only listen for commands from specific nicks, in specific channels, from specific IPs.
      They follow cron-like permissions, so NOC teams and programmers can only run commands during their shifts.
      Additionally, production rollouts are handled by the bots.
      We say "release", they run svn up in production, do cleanup scripts, etc.
      With sudo access to specific accounts and commands given to the bots.
      And rollback is just as simple, developers don't need production access for releases, to check logs, etc.
      It also ensures they can't break anything on non-rollout days, permissions are usually only Tue - Thu.

      Bot permissions are controlled via subversion.
      To give someone else permissions, you need commit access to the bots repository, then access in IRC to tell the bots to update their permissions or source files.
      This also is locked down to specific timezones when they can update themselves, so a developer with access can't touch the bots source on a weekend.

      Currently working on GPG security as well for more specific commands.
      Bots store your public key, and /msg you a request, and since we all run IRC clients with perl support, we can script the challenge/response.

      Security in IRC, in the bots, in subversion. With Subversion and IRC servers being tightly locked down.

      Our security team has no complaints, but its fun to see each new person they hire go through the whole process all over again.
      "We do what with IRC?"

  15. The Same Old Bots by madsheep · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have a few comments and one will answer some of the previous questions to some degree.
    First, the majority of these trojans, specifically these are all IRC based. They are very easy to spot, especially in corporate environments. Why? Well because most people do not use IRC while they are at work. Not to mention many companies will have policies against it. This makes intrusion detection for these kinds of bots very easily. Since most of these servers housing the bots are just standard Unreal IRCD (generally hacker-installed) or whatever IRCD undernet/efnet/etc. run on, they are not encrypted. This means when a machine connects, traffic with "NOTICE", "PRIVMSG", "JOIN #" etc is all sent in the clear. There have been snort/bleeding snort rules to look for this type of activity for years and they haven't had to change much. Sure the ports might not always be 6667-6669/7000, but looking for activity like this on a certain port is dumb to do anyway.

    A simple analysis of most IRC traffic should you have real-time peaks or capture logs will tell you pretty quick if it's malicious. If you see a nick change to XP|24249429 or USA|2942949 and it joins a channel called #owned with a topic of .scan 10.0.0.0/8 then there's a pretty good chance the machine in question is an infected bot and most likely with one of the aforementioned variants. Now most home users won't have insight into this type of activity. And funny enough there's not much "big brother" by way of ISPs caring much for this. Unless reported to them they most likely won't do anything. Even then they still might not do anything. http://www.shadowserver.org/ keeps a list of good/responsive ISPs. This might be more in the case of a malicious host housing an IRCD, but that's beside the point.

    Now finally these two are quite popular. Why? Well it has been said already. The source for them is our there and they are readily available. People frequently update and modify them to avoid AV detection. Hell, many people don't update and modify them. So many people are running without [updated] AV that it doesn't seem to matter much. If you notice how most people get infected, it's the same old thing. IM worm, e-mail worm, malicious website, or a scan for the 2 year old dcom exploit. Every time some new IE/Firefox/etc vulnerability is released, someone quickly makes it download their trojan.

    These variants have been around for years. Luckily the people using them are pretty dumb. It's just a matter of time before worms/viruses/etc turn to web-based (not IRC) and encryption as the norm.

    1. Re:The Same Old Bots by LocoMan · · Score: 1

      There's a program that does something like that (IIRC it's norton internet security or something like that). If it detects a botnet command coming trough IRC, it disconnects all IRC connections on the computer. Unfortunately it has an annoying side effect (which an IRC friend kinda hated me for for a while) that if you were talking on IRC, and someone wrote one of those commands, it would disconnect you.. :)

  16. "Or so I hear." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    You are supposed to check the Post Anonymously box when you talk like that :)

    1. Re:"Or so I hear." by Spazntwich · · Score: 2, Funny

      If I were posting seriously, I would have.

      You get a lot of blank stares in casual conversation, don't you?

    2. Re:"Or so I hear." by karnal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Are you trying to say he/she works at Radio Shack?

      Oh wait, that'd be giving blank stares.... nevermind.

      --
      Karnal
  17. ISP's half the problem by cdrguru · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No ISP is going to shut off an account because of an infected computer. They might throttle it somewhat, but it is the site administrator's responsibility to deal with infected computers. What? Your parents don't have a "site administrator" overseeing their computers? (((except when you are there... ha ha))) Well, that sounds like a real problem, doesn't it?

    What we have are general-purpose computers that people install random software on without thinking about where it came from, what it might do and the consequences of having that happen. Then, they don't check to see what their computer is doing when it is supposedly idle and thrashing around on the hard drive or is really slow. Well, maybe it is just getting old and needs to be replaced. Right.

    So we have the equivalent of handing a loaded revolver to a three-year-old and leaving the room. We have seen how they can hurt themselves with it. We can see how they hurt others with it. And about all that is done is giving them some more bullets.

    Let's be clear about one thing here. Windows "security" or the lack of it is not the problem. If the machine is locked down utterly so that nothing can be installed, removed or modified Windows security is perfectly adequate. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want to run their computer this way. There is no security if the "user" can simply install any old thing they want, be it some new flash player with a bug in it, WeatherBug or a bot trojan. Signing code is not the answer - people aren't reading the messages that are displayed. You could have a page of text displayed when a trojan is installed that says in eight different ways "this will take over your computer and make it ours" and people would install it.

    The answer is pretty clear. General purpose computers that can have software installed are a tool that must be monitored, controlled and administered. Giving one to a user and leaving them alone with it is a reciepe for disaster. Just like the disaster with spam, botnets and viruses we are seeing right now.

    1. Re:ISP's half the problem by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      The answer is pretty clear. General purpose computers that can have software installed are a tool that must be monitored, controlled and administered. Giving one to a user and leaving them alone with it is a reciepe for disaster. Just like the disaster with spam, botnets and viruses we are seeing right now.

      Your solution would take computers out of the hands of every non-expert user who didn't have a systems administrator handy. This would almost completely wipe out the home computer market. I don't disagree that your solution would be effective, but I doubt you could get too many parties (e.g. Dell, Microsoft, Aunt Betty) to accept the cost.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    2. Re:ISP's half the problem by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Instead of taking computers away from everyone, perhaps we should come up with an incentive plan for ISPs to deactivate or throttle the connection to infected computers? They won't do it without some incentive.

      Of course, this would only take care of the zombies in the country where the incentive is being offered...

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:ISP's half the problem by jfengel · · Score: 1

      It would take agreement among ISPs to ban/throttle each other when they're not following whatever rules they agree on about obvious spam sources coming from their routers.

      As in, if Comcast or Verizon or AOL says, "Look, if you're not going to do something about the evil packets coming from your IP addresses, I'm going to have to do it myself by dropping all packets from you."

      That has the effect of putting pressure even on ISPs from other countries. When their valid users start complaining that they can't get their mail through, they'll have to work on the problem.

      It doesn't entirely solve the problem; the only thing that goes from one ISP to another is mail, and mail is not the most important protocol on the web. It would be nice if, say, Google and Amazon would also participate but they're just not going to turn away customers.

      There are still some arguments to come out; some will swear that's all valid email traffic and not spam. Or they'll argue about how quickly they can be expected to react when one of their clients becomes a bot, and they'll come to Slashdot to complain how somebody hooked up a laptop to their network and they had to spend 20 hours talking to customer service to get it restored.

      Nonetheless, it sounds like a start, and it works peer-to-peer between ISPs without having to get any governments involved.

    4. Re:ISP's half the problem by tppublic · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The answer is pretty clear. General purpose computers that can have software installed are a tool that must be monitored, controlled and administered. Giving one to a user and leaving them alone with it is a reciepe for disaster. Just like the disaster with spam, botnets and viruses we are seeing right now.

      I'm sure there are many large companies - ones that would love to protect the status quo - that would greatly support your proposal.

      I think what you propose is crazy.

      You have failed to follow through the implementation and resulting consequences of this action.

      The problem isn't only general purpose computers, it is general purpose processors running general purpose operating systems. Making it 'embedded' doesn't necessarily solve the problem. For example, there have been vulnerabilities in various routers over the past few years, and your action would not solve those issues. You provide no evidence that preventing user installation will protect the system in any fashion. The system would still have underlying x86, PPC, ARM or MIPS processor which could run arbitrary code.

      First, how do you allow people to get a system where they can write software? It is both systematically difficult, and is a practical impossibility with current systems. Given that many products have some form of scripting built in (including Microsoft Office, and about every version of *nix there is), it is difficult to prevent someone who is even marginally capable from writing software. For example, when I was a university student, there were strict policies that prevented the compilation of software on the community Unix system (Sun servers at the time). However, given that sh, csh, and tcsh were all available on the system, I could perform just about any action I wanted on that system, as far as software is concerned. That's not to say it wasn't slow compared to a compiled program (it WAS), but it was almost impossible for them to detect or prevent.

      One potential (and partial) solution to this is so-called the 'trusted computing' model, which would only allow 'certified' software to run on a computer. I posit without proof that the challenge of preventing ANY method of forging electronic certifications is very difficult. Computational infeasibility can be worked around simply by having one person in the system walk off with a legal certificate. Look at how the Mongolians eventually got through the Great Wall of China. If I recall the stories correctly, they simply bribed some guards. Reducing the system leakage to zero is not practical (nor is it beneficial, given that there are countless 'business people' working in marketing and finance who develop their own scripts to automate their work).

      Also, software development is valuable and available world-wide. The ability to go overseas to get work done is completely possible in the software engineering world. If only one country or region places the restriction you propose (I guarantee developing countries will ignore your restriction), then those countries are at a competitive disadvantage. Their next generation will ALSO be at a competitive disadvantage, because they will not develop the appropriate skills. Some of the best programmers do NOT come from formal education in computer science.

      The problem we actually have is the lack of incentive to fix the problem.

      The user who's machine is infected has no large incentive to help the problem. ... and the ISP just ignores the issue. So we need there to be penalties to having an infected machine. The ISPs can then sell a form of monitoring (effectively insurance, a wildly profitable business) to users who do not want to or have the skills to do their own monitoring. I recognize the challenge of dealing with international sites remains.

      The companies have no incentive to change, either. The pressures that exist to release software combined with the lack of any material negative effect on software vendors for producing bad software c

    5. Re:ISP's half the problem by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >There is no security if the "user" can simply install any old thing they want, be it some new flash player with a bug in it, WeatherBug or a bot trojan.

      Not on today's OSes and architectures, but those aren't the only possibilities.

      Moving away from the assumption that software is trustable would be a great start. Why does my web browser have authority to overwrite my hosts file, just because I do and I'm the one logged in while it's running? Why does my email client have authority to launch executables?

      Operating systems that enforce per-program restrictions do have a terrible record of being hard to use, and eventually someone will tell downloaders "remove jumper J4 to disable mandatory access control so you can install our dancing cursors.

    6. Re:ISP's half the problem by Lexic0n · · Score: 1

      I hate to say it, but I am beginning to think the parent is correct in their assessment of how to solve the spam/bot/rootkit/spyware/malware problem. It seems that general purpose computers need to be regulated and only run by licensed professionals.

      Give everyone else WebTV and an XBox or something.

    7. Re:ISP's half the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at how the Mongolians eventually got through the Great Wall of China. If I recall the stories correctly, they simply bribed some guards.

      I could be wrong but the way I understood it, the Great Wall didn't have 100% coverage so they just rode around it. This actually works just as well for your analogy, however.

      Posting as AC because I moderated on this thread.

    8. Re:ISP's half the problem by Cramer · · Score: 1

      No ISP is going to shut off an account because of an infected computer.
      Not 100% true. While it's certainly a last resort, as a network admin I've turned off dsl and T1 customers because of compromised systems. Let me tell you, that'll get people's attention FAST . (Of course, the terms of their contract state we can cut 'em off for "disruptive activity", so they can be as mad as they want :-))
    9. Re:ISP's half the problem by Anon-Admin · · Score: 1

      No ISP is going to shut off an account because of an infected computer. They might throttle it somewhat, but it is the site administrator's responsibility to deal with infected computers.

      Umm, I call BS on that statment!
      See the proof!


      Dear Valued Subscriber;

      Thank you for subscribing to Ygnition's High Speed Internet Service. It
      is our objective to provide excellent service to residents residing in the
      apartment communities we serve. To that end, our service is provided for
      the recreational use and enjoyment of all residents within these apartment
      communities.

      While investigating inordinately large amounts of traffic on your access
      port, it came to our attention that your computer is infected with a virus
      or trojen.

      Our terms of service prohibit this kind of activity.

      Please be advised that if you wish to continue to enjoy the benefits of your
      Ygnition high speed Internet connection, this activity must immediately
      cease. If we do not hear from you within 24 hours to acknowledge this
      notification and begin corrective action, your access to the network may be
      permanently terminated. Furthermore, if your activity is negatively impacting
      the performance of our network, your service may be suspended until we hear
      from you. Please call us at 1-866-XXX-XXXX.
      We are available Mon-Sat 6am-10pm and Sun 7am-4pm Pacific Time.

      While we want you to enjoy the advantages of this high-speed network, we
      will not tolerate abuse and misuse.

      Sincerely,

            Ygnition Networks, Inc Abuse department.


      Here is what the terms of service state!!


      Representations and Warranties. Subscriber represents, warrants,
      covenants and agrees that he/she will not engage in any of the following
      types of conduct ("Prohibited Use and/or Activities") in utilizing the IAS:

      Uploading, transmitting, receiving, displaying, printing, forwarding
      or otherwise disseminating material, content, communication, information or
      software that contains a virus, trojan horse, self replicating code, or
      other harmful component;


      It would seem that some ISP's are shutting off accounts due to viruses and trojens.

      Which is sad because there is no virus or trojen on the system in question. Just a lot of file transfers and e-mails with large attachments.

    10. Re:ISP's half the problem by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Or require that general purpose computers be administered by someone with a license. Don't have a license? I'm available to administer your comptuer for $50/mo, or $10/mo if you let me remote in.

      We'd create a whole new market.

    11. Re:ISP's half the problem by Dan_Bercell · · Score: 1

      ISP shut down people all the time in Ontario. If your computer is infected badly it triggers some alerts on their end and the user gets a phone call, then I get a phone call asking me they have viruses...

    12. Re:ISP's half the problem by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Not on today's OSes and architectures, but those aren't the only possibilities.

      Fundamentally, any "architecture" that allows the end user to make decisions about what it can do, allows the end user to make bad decisions.

      Operating systems that enforce per-program restrictions do have a terrible record of being hard to use, and eventually someone will tell downloaders "remove jumper J4 to disable mandatory access control so you can install our dancing cursors.

      Exactly. Which means that even if the default configuration doesn't let something happen, if the end user has the power to force it do so, then the system can't be secure.

      Unfortunately, security has an inverse relationship with both ease of use and flexibility.

    13. Re:ISP's half the problem by WeeBit · · Score: 1

      "But if an ISP were to "offer this service" of bot detection, it would give the expectation that ISPs are responsible for network security. ISPs do not want to be responsible for network security. They don't even want to be perceived as being responsible for network security. There is no money in it for them. Even though every ISP has a AUP (acceptable use policy), there is little incentive for them to spend any money or effort (same thing) to enforce it."

      Actually a few times ISP's did take charge, and shut them down. With the help of a third party that got involved, and sent proof etc to the ISP. If you also check your ISP's AUP you will notice a change in what reasons they give for shutting a user down for violating the AUP. They did not word it in some of these to sound like they are shutting down botnets, instead most shut them down because of excessive bandwidth usage, or spam, plus they include the "infected pc, etc.

      In most of the AUP's I have read this evening they all have this clause in them...

      From Earthlinks AUP
      "Network disruptions and unfriendly activity. Using the Services for any activity which adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use EarthLink Services or the Internet. This includes "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user. Interference with or disruption of other network users, network services or network equipment is prohibited. It is the Member's responsibility to ensure that their network is configured in a secure manner. A Member may not, through action or inaction, allow others to use their network for illegal or inappropriate actions. A Member may not permit their network, through action or inaction, to be configured in such a way that gives a third party the capability to use their network in an illegal or inappropriate manner."

      The AUP's are not the same word for word, but they do have this in most of the ones I have read. The action or inaction I believe is key in some of the AUP's. BellSouth / AT&T is similar to the Earthlink AUP however BellSouth comes right to the point.

      Bellsouth... Through action or inaction allowing the transmission of files that contain a virus or corrupted data. In order to protect our subscribers and our network, BellSouth may suspend and/or cancel a subscriber's account if we believe that it is transmitting a virus to other Internet users or our network."

      Comcast is a little different...
      "restrict, inhibit, or otherwise interfere with the ability of any other person, regardless of intent, purpose or knowledge, to use or enjoy the Service, including, without limitation, posting or transmitting any information or software which contains a worm, virus, or other harmful feature, or generating levels of traffic sufficient to impede others' ability to send or retrieve information;"

      Actually Comcast has a list from hell covering all bad stuff. http://www.comcast.net/terms/use.jsp

      I believe you are forgetting one thing... and that is ISP's are just as sick and tired of all the crap online, as the users are. They get their share of tech support calls, and have to deal with crapware bringing blocks of IPs to a crawl. I believe they get involved if their is a need for them to get involved, and yes I have heard of people being shut down, and I know of one couple personally that was shutdown. Their computer was nothing more than a spam box, and Earthlink shut their service off. The major argument going back and forth was the ISP said they was infected, and to clean up their computer. They said there was nothing wrong with their computer, it was just slow. They just didn't want to believe their computer was infected. It took their ISP shutting them down to open their eyes. This was sad, because this couple was only online like 4 to 6 months. Hardly enough time to learn what to expect online. But a lesson learned quickly in the

  18. Spelling Nazi by skeevy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Though you may have learned that the plural of 'octopus' is 'octopi' and the plural of 'cactus' is 'cacti', the plural of 'virus' is viruses, not 'virii'. In fact, the -i pluralization is optional; the -es pluralization is standard.

    Refer to:

    1. Re:Spelling Nazi by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      Though you may have learned that the plural of 'octopus' is 'octopi' and the plural of 'cactus' is 'cacti', the plural of 'virus' is viruses, not 'virii'.

      If you use the logic "-us" => "-i", then we should have "virus" => "viri". Where the heck do people get the extra i?

      Math-oriented people must be familiar with "radius" => "radii", but it does follow the same logic with the extra i already there in the singular form. Then again, "virii" is funny in the way that it emphasizes incorrect spelling. It's even more funny when used by someone pretending to work with computers where typos are much more dangerous than in natural languages.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Spelling Nazi by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

      You're right, the 2nd declension plural would be 'viri' not 'virii'.

      But, language rules are sometimes broken. And virii looks better than viri and sounds better than viruses. It might be wrong, but that doesn't mean I can't like it more than what's 'right' as defined by some self-described language nazi. ;p

      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    3. Re:Spelling Nazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, language rules are sometimes broken.

      Sure, but not Latin. It's been dead long enough that its grammar has been fixed. Variations on Latin are no longer Latin. This includes the Romance languages, and even 'virus/virii'

    4. Re:Spelling Nazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might be wrong, but that doesn't mean I can't like it more than what's 'right' as defined by some self-described language nazi. ;p
      That doesn't mean that I still can't think you're an absolute moron. ;p
  19. Don't call it a botnet by davidwr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would a botnet by any other name smell just as sour?

    Probably not.

    If you'd called it a distributed asset-monitoring and -control system and given it a fancy acronym like DAMACS or something, it would've been a better sell.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  20. Don't Italians own computers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about the Gambino family?

    (A/C b/c I don't want to go phishing wearing cement shoes;)

    attn mods: this is not offtopic, troll, or flamebait. Mod me as such and Vinny will have ta see youse, capish? Noce kneecaps yo' momma got there, shame if anything was ta happen to 'em...

  21. Two families??? by Vexler · · Score: 2, Funny

    I thought they were Symantec and AVG.

    Oh, you mean *PUBLICLY* acknowledged virus writers?

    1. Re:Two families??? by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Yup, I wish someone would slip up and make it clear that Symantec and McAfee are distributing viruses. I keep hearing rumours, but haven't seen proof myself.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    2. Re:Two families??? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      If it were true that would mean that Symantec has pulled off a bigger conspiracy than the US government AND has been able to keep it quiet. Giving them a little too much credit if you ask me...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    3. Re:Two families??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, for a start the difference between the anti-virus Symantec and AVG are producing and "real" malware is pretty thin: the only noticeable difference for random Joe Schmock is that its Windows computer becomes slow as molasses...

  22. Sorry, dude, correct usage here by I)_MaLaClYpSe_(I · · Score: 1

    idiosyncratic use as jargon among a group, such as computer hackers; and deliberate word play, such as on BBSs (see, e.g.: leet).

    Although Wikipedia states that:

    The less frequent variations viri and virii are virtually unknown in edited prose, and no major dictionary recognizes them as alternative forms , Hackers like to use "virii" as the plural form of virus, even if Latin scholars object that this invented term does not follow standard patterns in that language - just to refer to the plural of computer viruses opposed to the plural of biological viruses.

    So, although you are correct in terms of edited prose, I still use the term virii in order to refer to the plural of computer viruses.

    1. Re:Sorry, dude, correct usage here by Phisbut · · Score: 1

      Hackers like to use "virii" as the plural form of virus

      Just like they like to use "boxen" as the plural form of box. It's pure 1337ness, and I hate it.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
  23. White hat "mal'-ware? by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever attempted to put together malware-like programs that actually FIX the problems that real malware exploits? Maybe even expunging already-installed malware in the process? It sure seems leaving security up to the users isn't working.

    1. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by orclevegam · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is a classic case of this that happened IIRC at MIT on one of the early networks. Some bright person wrote a small worm that went around and performed regular updates to the systems. All went well for a few months or so, but then a previously unknown bug in the worm caused it to go nuts and brought the network down HARD. In a similar vein, as an example of how things can go wrong, there's a famous story of someone (seem to remember him being connected with NSA or CIA or one of them... son of the director?) who wrote a worm that didn't have a payload in it to see if he could do it. It was supposed to send a couple copies of itself out, propogate for a bit, then erase itself. A bug in the logic however made it bombard the network attempting to propogate which resulted in one of the first DDOS attacks, even if un-intentional.

      The reason in short of why you don't see any white hat mal-ware is because the risk is just too great that something can go wrong. It's better to come up with a more robust solution to the problem, rather than introducing another element into the mix that is already on shaky ground to begin with.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    2. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by TheBig1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you are referring to this

    3. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm too lazy to dig up the URL, but I remember seeing a story around here a while ago about a bot that installed an anti-virus program on infected computers. It's not quite what you're thinking of though, because instead of just being done to really clean the computer, it was to make sure that the bot ran as efficiently as possible.

    4. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by orclevegam · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's it. Now if only I could find a link about that first virus I mentioned. I think it actually pre-dates the practice of calling that sort of program a virus, or perhaps it's from around the same time. I know it was designed to run on one of the very early UNIXs. While looking for this I also ran into this page on notable viruses and worms which mentions The Reaper which was a program designed to wipe out The Creeper program, which is more or less an example of White Hat malware. I'm trying to remember more details about that first example, and I seem to recall it had something to do with maintenance on daemon apps, but not sure exactly what it was. I think the name was something like vampire or such, but I don't even remember where I read about it at this point so hard to say.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    5. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by 8-bitDesigner · · Score: 1

      Oh, you mean, this worm? Absolutely bloody fascinating, mind you.

    6. Re:White hat "mal'-ware? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      Long ago, I got a couple laughs out of something like this.

      I repointed a couple pieces of NastyWare to server as Boot Loaders for my favorite apps. I don't think I can catch all the pieces of today's NastyGrams though.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  24. Laziness as far as I can tell by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I run in to two groups that make up the majority of "not updated" systems:

    1) People who won't do any manual steps at all to update. Every so often, Windows has an update that needs you to interact with it. Rather than autoinstalling it'll just put the little "You've got updates" icon in your sys tray and pop up a bubble about it from time to time. However some people just refuse to deal with that. A couple clicks is more than they are willing to do. Totally automated is ok, but they can't be bothered to do anything more.

    2) However an even larger number don't want their system to reboot. Tons of those at work. They have something or other running continuously that they can't be bothered to save the state on. So they turn off the updates so that it won't reboot. Yes, really.

    That accounts for at least 90% of the no-update people I run across. There's a small percentage that won't do it because they read on some forum that some guy had a problem with an update and they are convinced Microsoft will break their system, but most are just lazy as hell.

    1. Re:Laziness as far as I can tell by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I really wish I had a license to kill. Well, at least kill those systems. I know that it's illegal for some odd reason to kill their users.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Laziness as far as I can tell by Mercedes308 · · Score: 1

      But doesn't the reboot query pop up every minute or so? They are willing to put up with something as annoying as that in order to put off rebooting? I shouldn't be surprised, I see even more illogical behavior than that on a daily basis.

      --
      And no, I couldn't give a shit what my karma is.
    3. Re:Laziness as far as I can tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am in the camp that put off updating something IE for several months. I tried to let it update several times since then: it will download, but it fails to install. I don't know, maybe the old update is not compatible with a newer update that did install. Still, every time I boot Windows, I get an annoying message telling me I need to do the update, even though the update can't work.

    4. Re:Laziness as far as I can tell by bangenge · · Score: 1

      But doesn't the reboot query pop up every minute or so? They are willing to put up with something as annoying as that in order to put off rebooting? I shouldn't be surprised, I see even more illogical behavior than that on a daily basis.

      But that can tend to be annoying if you're, say, downloading, compiling, converting, or running some other maintenance stuff that takes quite some time. I tend to be bothered with those at work, and I make a conscious effort not to stand up to make sure that Windows doesn't reboot on its own.

      Yes, I'm willing to put up with that, if only because it's gonna be a PITA to start over on whatever I'm doing previously. If there is a way to disable the popup, please tell me.

      --
      . o O ( TwO hEaDs ArE mOrE tHaN oNe... )
    5. Re:Laziness as far as I can tell by Mercedes308 · · Score: 1

      I understand what you are saying, but you are doing something that needs to be done and I'm guessing you would do the restart after you're finished. It's a logical decision, but what these goons are doing is just a bit silly. :)

      --
      And no, I couldn't give a shit what my karma is.
    6. Re:Laziness as far as I can tell by Alchemar · · Score: 1

      And some of those "can't be bothered to save the state" are data collection units that collect information from various machines that must run months at a time. When you have more than 6 or more machines running on different long term schedules attached to one computer, most of which have an end date determined by the test being run, not a set time, it is a nightmare to schedule an update and a reboot. Service packs also tend to break drivers. When you have dedicated equipment, you must wait for the equipment manufacturer to release a new driver before you can risk an update. Almost a third of the machines I deal with at work are control or data collection systems. We have lost several months worth of data due to an automitic reboot from a patch. These machines now have the automatic update turned off, and are patched once a year when the manufacturer is onsite to do yearly maintenance.

      My desktop at work get automatic updates. My desktop at home gets manual updates every few months. This is because my work computer is designed to run a word processor and spreadsheet. If I lose my drivers, I can go into safe mode and still get my work done. My home system I use for run more periphrials and won't update until I don't have anything I need to do in case it takes me a few days to get drivers working again.

      Your post implies that the only reason to not update a system is because of laziness. I think a lot more people are scared of updates than you realize. I also think that a lot more of them should be scared. I am guessing that you are pulling your sample of "two groups" from people that check email and write a few letters. Even basic users want to occasionally do things like transfer files to an mp3 player. I have seen several mp3 players that work fine with SP1 but still do not work with SP2, even with the special downloads and hotfixes. Should those people A) go out and rebuy a piece of hardware that still functions. B) Set automatic updates and forget about their devices, even if that is why they bought a computer, so they can be a good net-citzen or C) Not update their computers so that the software and hardware they bought still function as origionally intended?

      Computer are tools, if a newer better version of a tool is not capable of doing the work of the older tool, you have to use the older tool. Even if the new tool is deemed safer and easier, it is useless if it can not be used to do the work it was intended.

  25. Detection Question by bizitch · · Score: 1

    Whats the simplest down and dirty way of detecting a worm infection?

    Assuming the worm is smart and disables any/all preventative measures on the host system - can one observe certain network activity behavior that would give the worm away?

    --
    ---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
    1. Re:Detection Question by B5_geek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Port monitoring.

      Unusual activity on non-standard ports. Atleast thats how I discovered it at my last job. Open up a packet sniffer, let it pull in traffic for a little while, then investigate.

      Smarter worms use standard ports, but then you tell but unusual traffic patterns. (ie, why does "Bob the idiots" computer keep sending 2k of data to pron-iz-gud.com 50 times a minute??)

      --
      "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    2. Re:Detection Question by walt-sjc · · Score: 1

      Install snort. It's not that hard.

  26. O RLY? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Cox (cable company) will. Back a few years ago I had a Cox connection and one day I found it not working. Called tech support, and they referred me over to the abuse department. Turns out my roommate had gotten his system infected. Once I'd confirmed I'd cleared it up, they turned the connection back on.

    ISPs should, and some do, look for infected machines and shut down the connections.

  27. Uninstall? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given that these buggers usually have abilities like "download updates" why doesn't someone hack the bot networks and download an uninstall+patch program?

    Unlike what others have said, it wouldn't be a "worm" because the patch would be unable to spread on its own. It would only be downloaded by those infected bots who are getting instructions over IRC.

    1. Re:Uninstall? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      Given that these buggers usually have abilities like "download updates" why doesn't someone hack the bot networks and download an uninstall+patch program?

      i believe that did happen sometime. the problem is, it's legally risky and opens then up to lawsuits/criminal charges.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  28. Fine, until... by 6Yankee · · Score: 1

    "This is your Internet company. Our engineers are seeing signs of a virus on one of your computers. Please visit our security web site at $malware_site. In the meantime, we are taking steps to keep the virus from spreading. This may affect your connection. We will remove these blocks automatically when we see your system is clean. If you have any questions, call us at $premium_rate_engaged_tone_recording. Thank you."

    Of course, I don't know whether the return is high enough to justify this sort of tactic, but it could happen.

    1. Re:Fine, until... by davidwr · · Score: 1

      Bill insert:

      [big print]AVOID BEING FOOLED BY SCAM ARTISTS[/big print]
      All of our web sites are at http://www.yourisp.com./
      Common web sites:
      Security and antivirus tools: http://www.yourisp.com/security
      Billing: http://www.yourisp.com/billing
      Help Desk: http://www.yourisp.com/help

      Look for the padlock and double-check the URL!

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    2. Re:Fine, until... by 6Yankee · · Score: 1

      ...because that works really well for banks...

  29. Redone bot runs on Linux by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Informative

    Those SSH password attacks spread Linux based Spambots. I have repaired a handful of servers in the USA and Singapore that suffered infections. The Redone spambot targets the tens of thousands of indentical systems on server farms, of which some are sure to have bad passwords. Once it has set up shop it spewes out enormous amounts of spam. It is managed through IRC.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  30. Ecology problem by abb3w · · Score: 1

    Seriously, though, is the decreased diversity in bot "heritage" a good thing -- does it mean that bot infections are easier to detect and treat? Or does it not make any bit of difference until the typical user learns to protect their PC?

    The limited heritage diversity suggests that one might make a dramatic impact on the non-technical aspects of the problem with a carefully applied use of hardware. Unfortunately, that's a very short-term solution most likely to only result in rediversification and speciation, rather than any broader environmental shift in the culture leading to permanent extinction.

    --
    //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  31. Hard to do with dialup by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Sure dialup users can install a non-Microsoft firewall, but is that really "independent" of Microsoft?

    An external modem plus external firewall box that hooks to it isn't cheap, not on the new market anyways.

    With newer motherboards and CPUs, you can run a stripped-down Linux that just dials and launches Windows XP or a VM-legal version of Vista in a VM. But what non-techie consumer wants to do that?

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  32. Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and Ouch!

    How shitty is that? And why didn't they sue MS or something like that, demand a new version of Windows, instead of throwing more money at the company that totally ripped them off and left them with NO FRICKING OPERATING SYSTEM AT ALL, even though they legally paid for it?

    I'm not using Windows anymore (used to run Mac OS after a while on Linux and XP, now I'm a happy Ubuntu user), but this is really the nail in the coffin. I'd tell that company such a big Fuck You that the mountains would shake.

  33. Food for thought by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Percentages are meaningless if you don't have the total number. It can well mean that those 2 families spread incredibly fast while other worms spread more slowly.

    I would not necessarily call that a good sign. Actually, I'd take it as an alarming signal. People are still as stupid as last year, so I wouldn't say that it's harder to infect machines.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  34. Why should ISPs do that? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    At least here, many pay per MB transfered. Now, a transfer in the local net of the ISP doesn't cost much (while they can charge you through the nose for it). Most bots spam mostly into the local net (/24 or /16).

    And now again, do you REALLY expect ISPs to have a keen interest to shut them down? They are their cash cows!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  35. ISPs don't want to be responsible for net security by vinn01 · · Score: 1


    The problem as I see it is that ISPs don't want to be responsible for net security.

    An ISP could detect bot IRC traffic and notify a customer who is originating bot commands. It's not that hard. All these bots use IRC. The IRC traffic is sent in plain text using well known commands. Even the most of the channel names are well known. Every ISP knows the email address (and billing details) associated with every active IP address on their network. It's basic logging.

    But if an ISP were to "offer this service" of bot detection, it would give the expectation that ISPs are responsible for network security. ISPs do not want to be responsible for network security. They don't even want to be perceived as being responsible for network security. There is no money in it for them. Even though every ISP has a AUP (acceptable use policy), there is little incentive for them to spend any money or effort (same thing) to enforce it.

    Responsibility - Authority - Money : You can only have one, which one would you want?

  36. denyhosts by daniel23 · · Score: 1

    you do this manually? Wow. You might want to take a look at denyhosts

    --
    605413? Yes, it's a prime.
  37. They just turn them off entirely by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    As in tell Windows not to update at all.

    1. Re:They just turn them off entirely by Mercedes308 · · Score: 1

      You know, for the sake of respect for our species, I really wish you were wrong.

      --
      And no, I couldn't give a shit what my karma is.
  38. Re:Automated Trolling System by EugeneK · · Score: 3, Informative

    do not click above link unless you want your browser hijacked - very nasty!

  39. none of these are hardware firewalls by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Maybe I wasn't clear. I meant a NAT hardware firewall router, or any other external firewall.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  40. Regulating General-Purpose Computers by Garrett+Fox · · Score: 1

    I don't think you're the first to be thinking along those lines. Corporations have been making attempts to restrict what types of media can play on a computer, under what terms, to the point of Sony's installing rootkits on its customers' computers. On the hardware side, the Trusted Computing concept helps limit users' anonymity. In politics, the free world is toying with laws requiring monitoring of innocent Net users to fight terrorism/porn/drugs, and countries like China are doing massive censorship. In looking at other hardware, we know that there's at least one US-government-mandated design feature -- the V-Chip for televisions -- and supposedly the Secret Service has subverted several brands of printer. Japan has even issued some draft guidelines for robot regulation.

    What we're seeing is a convergence of trends towards locking down computers, making it illegal to build or sell a machine with the full power and freedom of a Turing Machine. Some argue (Okay, it's not a great source; just did a quick search) that restrictions like this are equivalent to Soviet Russian restrictions on the use of photocopiers.

    The various restrictions being placed on computer users for various reasons threaten our use of an important tool, and are oppressive and insulting. Even if you personally are a savvy computer user, are you prepared (based on your proposal) to be charged a fee, photographed, fingerprinted, licensed, monitored, and otherwise treated like a criminal, because you weren't content with the toys your government allows lesser geeks to use?

    --
    Revive the Constitution.
    1. Re:Regulating General-Purpose Computers by Lexic0n · · Score: 1

      Touche.

  41. responsible for most botnets worldwide by bl8n8r · · Score: 1

    I believe Guiness has reserved this title for Microsoft.

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
  42. Re:Automated Trolling System by stonedcat · · Score: 0, Insightful

    maybe stop using an insecure web browser and OS?

    --
    You can't take the sky from me.
  43. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  45. Average users don't know all that! by master_p · · Score: 1

    All the comments above say "get a firewall, install SP2 etc"...guys, the average computer user does not know what all these things are! people that want to use email, surf the web, manage their photos, manage their bills with a computer have no idea what a firewall is and why a service pack is required.

    From this perspective, Microsoft has totally flopped: Windows requires much technical knowledge of computers to operate.

  46. Eh. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    I still use the term virii in order to refer to the plural of computer viruses.
    And I still think that when you use the term "virii", it makes you sound like a dumbass.

    To my ears, anyhow.
    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  47. Re:Automated Trolling System by EugeneK · · Score: 1

    If you're using firefox, enable Javascript and click on that link; then come back here and talk about insecure browsers.