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Electrically Conductive Cement

zero_offset writes "The Tokyo Institute of Technology has announced a process for creating an inexpensive, nearly transparent, electrically conductive alumina cement. The conductivity is comparable to metal, and the transparency should be adequate for use in display panels. The process relies upon commonplace and inexpensive metals compared to the rare metals such as iridium currently used in display panels."

44 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. It's about time! by Robotech_Master · · Score: 3, Funny

    I see they're finally getting around to using that formula Scotty provided.

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    1. Re:It's about time! by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2, Funny

      But it was my first post. :)

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      Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
    2. Re:It's about time! by quixote9 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Be nice if it was just the first step to implementing all that stuff. You know: no poverty, competent government, no wars (except with Klingons and such, of course).

    3. Re:It's about time! by DAtkins · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not that I'm normally this deep or anything...

      The nice thing about progress is that everything is a small step toward that.

      It's the period between then and now that you have to worry about. Star Trek had 2 more World Wars before Cochrine developed the warp drive. :)

    4. Re:It's about time! by Original+Replica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      no wars (except with Klingons and such, of course).

      Nothing brings people together like a common enemy, so for us to have no morewars here on Earth, the most likely catalyst would be war with an alien species. Keep in mind that with that competent government, there was complete global control, and we have only ever seen that government through the eyes of it's military officers.

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    5. Re:It's about time! by ChaosWeevil · · Score: 2

      Don't forget Trinium, Naqahdah, and Naqahdriah!

    6. Re:It's about time! by InsertCleverUsername · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nothing brings people together like a common enemy, so for us to have no more wars here on Earth, the most likely catalyst would be war with an alien species.
      True, but it would have to be a really good hoax. Otherwise it's not likely we'd have a prayer against aggressive aliens. As Sagan and many others would point out, a space-faring civilization is going to be much older and more technologically advanced than us. Reminds me of that old saying, "don't bring a knife to an phaser fight."

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    7. Re:It's about time! by Proofof.+Chaos · · Score: 3, Funny

      Otherwise it's not likely we'd have a prayer against aggressive aliens. As Sagan and many others would point out, a space-faring civilization is going to be much older and more technologically advanced than us. Why do you think we're trying to so hard to find alien life. If aliens find us, they are probably way more advanced; But if we find THEM first, it likely means WE are more advanced than them. Then all we have to do is spread rumors that they insulted Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Elvis, called all our mamas "nappy headed hos," and that they "Hate Freedom." We will have all humanity united behind our efforts to introduce "Democracy" to the new planet with interstellar ballistic missiles.
    8. Re:It's about time! by jasontn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... a really good hoax ... just like Alan Moore's The Watchmen?

    9. Re:It's about time! by indifferent+children · · Score: 2, Funny
      We will have all humanity united behind our efforts to introduce "Democracy" to the new planet with interstellar ballistic missiles.

      Don't worry, the aliens will be so eager for our 'democracy', that they'll welcome us as liberators. They'll be showering our soldiers with flowers. Whole thing should take about six months.

      --
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    10. Re:It's about time! by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      heh and for the record, I was laughing just as hard 4 years ago when people said that about Iraq.

      I mean seriously, how do people have their head so deep in the sand that they actually think things like that? Why is modern warfare so poorly understood? (Ok, admittedly the media makes no attempt at all at explaining it)

      Yah, if everyone in iraq were well... a moron. If they hadn't studied a bit, if nobody paid attention to the past 50 fucking years... then yes, their army would have met ours on the battlefield. We would have said "Oh look, a massive troop formation", pressed a button, and the war would be over in 6 weeks.

      They didn't do that cuz anyone with half a brain knows you can't fight like that against an army like the US unless you have an army like...well... like china, or the US. Major air force, major navy, cruise missles, all that good stuff.

      Unless you have an army like the US or china, you just can't fight us like that. You have to play to your own strengths. You hide in civilian clothes, in civilian houses... cuz its what works. History always vindicates the victor. Does it matter whether you are a war criminal or not?

      All I had to do to realise this was a decade or longer conflict.... BEFORE IT STARTED.... was to imagine the US army gets instantly wiped out and china invades the US. Whats gonna happen? Are we going to welcome our liberators?

      No... people will smile by day. And whenever able bodied americans meet, one may say "come to my house, we have a meeting tonight". And guess what... people will come to those meetings... and people will fight. They will fight until either they are gone and new generations have risen up accepting chineese rule... or until the foriegn fighters leave.

      We either stay until the next generation of Iraqi accept us, or we leave them to fight it out to fill the power vaccuume.

      Course, I realise your making fun of the people who thought that but seriously... I find living in a country where people go around not just saying that shit but believing it to be downright embarassing.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    11. Re:It's about time! by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see they're finally getting around to using that formula Scotty provided.

      It's unfortunate that it has to be produced as a thin membrane in order to be transparent. I think we're all looking for 1-inch thick plates that have the strength of aluminum with the transparency of glass.
      --

      GreyPoopon
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  2. Indium, not iridium by Kelson · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hazards of sans-serif fonts at small pitches, I guess.

    1. Re:Indium, not iridium by zero_offset · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually, hazards of a poor short term memory created by a misspent youth. :)

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  3. ut oh by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 2, Funny

    Soon there may be some real repercussions when I'm lounging on the concrete wall outside the library and the security guard comes around to say,"Hey! You can't be sleeping here!" *bzzt* OUCH!

    --
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  4. Never mind display panels... by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 3, Funny

    Use it to build RF-proof houses. No more problems with Wifi security!

    1. Re:Never mind display panels... by freefrag · · Score: 5, Informative

      Urine streams do not conduct electricity because they separate into droplets.

    2. Re:Never mind display panels... by mrbcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm wanna piss on an electric fence to prove that?

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    3. Re:Never mind display panels... by freefrag · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yah, Mythbusters busted that one.

  5. Does anybody else remember conductive LEGOs? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does anybody else remember the conductive LEGOs introduced with the 9V system? It just seems to me that this, if cheap enough, might be useful in construction environments where wire is difficult or impractical to route.

    Depending on its conductivity, it might even be useful for home and industrial high-current applications.

    Granted, electrical wiring is a pretty mature field, but I'm sure that something like this opens up possibilities.

    1. Re:Does anybody else remember conductive LEGOs? by daeg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One step further: combined with recent advances toward nearly transparent, thin solar cells for covering, well, everything. Windows and sides of buildings would be first, and given enough durability, sidewalks, cars, roofs, and the Chines could all become miniature power plants.

    2. Re:Does anybody else remember conductive LEGOs? by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Informative

      Does anybody else remember the conductive LEGOs introduced with the 9V system?

      Uh, I don't know about yours, but my 9V LEGOs (such as in the monorail) weren't electrically conductive themselves; they just used regular plastic blocks with metal bits embedded in them. For example, see the pictures on this site.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  6. Just what we need by Atario · · Score: 4, Funny

    A stadium where the entire surface of the building blinks and scrolls ads at you.

    That, or extra-heavy monitors.

    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  7. Indium by nuzak · · Score: 3, Informative

    RTFA, the rare metal in LCDs is Indium, not Iridium.

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  8. Cement != concrete by jfengel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Cement = anything used to glue things together

    Concrete = a building material composed of aggregates and cement

    Concrete is used for buildings, roads, sidewalks, etc. The aggregate in that case is usually rocks. The cement is usually Portland cement. It's not correct to call it "cement", though people will usually understand what you mean.

    But judging from the comments so far, not in this case. This isn't a replacement for Portland cement, and they're not talking about building materials. This is the kind of cement used to glue bits of LCD screens to each other.

    1. Re:Cement != concrete by lessthan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Umm... I hunted "alumina cement" down on Wikipedia, which states : Applications - in construction concretes, rapid strength development is achieved, even at low temperatures (truncated for clarity) Is that not the correct entry?

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    2. Re:Cement != concrete by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Coincidentally, I just learned tonight that the black sludge that gets mixed with sand and aggregate to make asphalt is called 'asphalt cement'.

      Likewise, the end result after that mixing is properly called "asphalt concrete," not just "asphalt."

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Cement != concrete by Proofof.+Chaos · · Score: 2, Informative

      OK, my buck oh five.

      First, the dictionaries suck. American Heritage also gives cement=Portland cement, or even concrete before cement=glue or binder. This is wrong. The use of the word cement to mean Portland cement -used to make concrete- or worse yet concrete itself, is essentially slang. Its like calling network cable "copper," or fiber-optic cable "fiber." Why they give that definition before "A substance that hardens to act as an adhesive; glue," and "Something that serves to bind or unite," I don't understand. For the best explanation, please see Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement

      Please people, stop telling people you have a "cement" sidewalk and an "asphalt" driveway (or worse yet, tar). You have a "concrete" sidewalk, and a "blacktop" driveway (or "asphalt cement" if you want to get really technical).

      Now, after rereading the article, I see that they say "lime-alumina" cement, which sounds like Portland cement to me, but then they say aluminum is used as a substitute for indium, which, AFAIK, is not used in Portland cement. So, I don't know WTF to think they mean.

  9. Editors? Anyone? by eskwayrd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The conductivity is comparable to metal

    'metal' is pretty generic, and 'metals' conduct at varying levels (understatement). TFA actually states 'manganese'. Why distort the original posting in the summary?

    ...compared to the rare metals such as iridium

    WTF? TFA states 'indium'.

    Methinks the poster should rely on the copy/paste strategy more often than 'transcribe it manually'.

    Anyway, cool stuff. Anyone know enough about display panel construction to give an off-the-cuff estimate of whether this new stuff will take more energy to produce?

    --
    eskwayrd = m^2c^4
  10. Home circuit fabs? by Teancum · · Score: 4, Informative

    When I read this, I was thinking of Fab@Home with the idea that perhaps you could use this process to help build crude home-built ICs out of simple and cheap materials.

    Unfortunately, it seems as though the process is a bit more complicated, and I don't know how you can get a nozzle heated to 1100 degrees C in a reduced oxygen environment (presumably why it is in a sealed glass tube to work) that would also be something you would want on your kitchen table.

    While of interest to a materials science guy, this really isn't that spectacular of a deal here. It does have the potential of improving LCD screen luminance values, reducing power requirements for laptops (the screen sucks quite a bit of power in the overall system), and helping in other ways. But it isn't something that simply can be poured out of a nozzle.

  11. Environmetally-friendly? by Velocir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From TFA: "the cement would make an environmentally-friendly alternative because its ingredients are more readily available". That doesn't make it environmentally friendly, it just makes it less environmentally damaging. There's a BIG difference.

    Also, is 30kg grip strength pretty low for an adult male? I'm pretty sure it is...

    1. Re:Environmetally-friendly? by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A more abundant material will occur naturally in greater concentrations, which reduces the amount of effort to retrieve and process a high-grade sample. For example, in an area where gold is plentiful, you may be able to find a large quantities of gold just by hand-panning in a stream. In an area where good is scare, you may have to sift through entire mountains to extract the same amount. The latter takes much more energy and investiment and has a much higher toll on the environment than the former.

  12. real purpose by digitalderbs · · Score: 3, Funny

    What they won't tell you is that it was really developed as a deterent to public urination in the streets.

  13. And just when thought....... by edwardpickman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Las Vegas couldn't get more annoying. Everywhere from sidewalks to bathrooms blaring logos at you. Even worse would be the saturation subliminal advetising. "No really honey, the floors and walls told me to gamble more".

  14. keep you eyes on the road. by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It could have some interesting applications as a road surface. traffic alerts and stop lights being part of the road itself.

    --
    We are all just people.
  15. cheaper tvs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Forgive my ignorance, but most of the comments only refer to large/heavy structures using this material. But, the article seems like it's saying that this could be used to replace Indium in televisions. Can this not possibly lead to cheaper and more efficient televisions or am I missing something? Can this also not be useful in making cheaper displays in general?

    1. Re:cheaper tvs? by Teancum · · Score: 2, Informative

      I guess many of those posting havn't heard about Rubber cement, commonly used for building model vehicle kits. Or other kinds of cement like the solvent used in PVC pipes.

      While making it cheaper may be true, the big problem that happens with displays is that you have wires which cross between pixels on any display.... simply to turn the pixel "on" or "off". These can be quite thin and are made of several different kinds of materials, but they do get into the way of the display. By making these wires transparent, you would have a huge increase in the throughput of the light coming from something like a back-lit light source (common for laptops).

      As far as replacing Indium or other rare earth metals... I don't understand that at all. Those metals are used to floresce in a CRT (television picture tube) and produce color pixels. This is what makes the TV be in bright colors. This article on color televsion gets into some of the specific color properites of Indium compounds and how they enhance the color gamut that can faithfully reproduce color from electronic media. This cement is not going to have those same kind of properties.

    2. Re:cheaper tvs? by glesga_kiss · · Score: 2, Informative

      As far as replacing Indium or other rare earth metals... I don't understand that at all.

      I believe the main benefit is the cost of Indium and similar substances.

      specific color properites of Indium compounds and how they enhance the color gamut

      This substance isn't intended to be part of the light emitting (or blocking) part of a display. It's for the wiring to those parts, built into the screen. By making it more transparent, the light level required can be reduced which saves battery life in laptops and possibly the cost of the light components.

    3. Re:cheaper tvs? by Teancum · · Score: 2, Informative

      I highly doubt that the value of the 2 grams of Indium used for a display is going to be a major factor in the overall cost of the display. You could use Gold or even Iridium and it wouldn't even be a factor. Californium, perhaps, but that element is sold by the gram. I just don't buy that as a serious argument.

      Trust me when I say that it is the use of Indium compounds and their phosphorescence at bold primary colors that makes it so valuable, and is driving up the world market price of Indium. Compared to Gold, Indium is a lousy conductor. A Gold or Silver trace would be much easier to hide because you would not have to use as much material. The use of Indium as a wire is not the issue, although the amount of the Indium compounds could be reduced slightly in a matrix of this cement and other composite materials used in a display system. That would be something that would appeal to a CEO or bean counter that is really concerned about the expense of getting Indium on the world metals market, but the concern would be about simply getting bulk Indium in the first place.

  16. Mistakes in the article! by dr.+loser · · Score: 4, Informative

    The author of the actual paper is Hideo Hosono, not "Hideo Hono". The paper, available here, was not published in the April 11 issue of Nano Letters. Rather, it was published on-line on March 22.

  17. Re:Tokyo Institute of Technology: TiTech by abushga · · Score: 3, Informative

    The acronym is TiTech. These kids design pico-satellites and put them into low earth orbit, among other things.

  18. Re:Let's see, here... by fabs64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    actually that sounds like a pretty brilliant way of printing simple "wires" on things.

  19. Uhm... Old News? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 2, Informative

    I did a college engineering report on this... in 2004.

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