Slashdot Mirror
Google Earth Highlights Darfur
jc42 writes "Google Earth, in cooperation with the US Holocaust Memorial Museum now presents details of the growing disaster in Darfur. They give a virtual tour of the area, with details of events in many villages in the words of local residents. So in addition to their "Do no evil" motto, they apparently now have a policy of exposing evil. Needless to say, the Sudan government didn't exactly cooperate with this project."
Next step? What about showing the destruction of Irak by US troops?
Next thing you know, google will be bringing peace to the middle east and set up a one world government...then we'll know Google is the anti-christ.
In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
I spent some time surfing the Darfur area.
It speaks it's own language.
I'm not good enough at English to find the right words (English is not my primary language).
However, this is an amazing tool, which other could use to document the horrors of history. Study the Scandinavian history 500 years ago, and you can make a similar map over the southern tip of present Sweden. Check it out for yourself: http://www.scania.org/facts/poster/index.html
Maybe som Palestinian group can make a similar map over, what Israel did to many Palestinian villages from 1947 until today. That would start up a *real* debate, and hopefully we can end the bloodshed there, that once raged Scandinavia.
Sagan then defines, what he would call, "The Weasel Rule". Be nice to strong people and be a jerk to weak people. Google caved in easily to strong governments like China and is currently exposing the evil in Darfar. So looks like, Google's motto is "Follow the Weasel Rule" not "Do no evil".
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Disagree. Injustices cannot be corrected by ignoring them, or even passively allowing them to continue. Neither you or I should simply ignore what is happening in Darfur. In fact, we have a responsibility to understand what is going on, even if we as individuals sitting somewhere far removed from it can do next to nothing about it (save our governments considering involvement themselves or vis the UN, in which case we could urge our representatives to make that happen).
Google is doing good by raising awareness of the atrocities being committed in Darfur. Yes, they do evil. They're a friggin' corporation and they exist to make money; no one is a saint. But they are doing some good here.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
I will have a sig when the market demands it.
Do you actually have ANY idea what is going on there???
maybe genocide is the wrong word but hundreds of thousands dying and even more fleeing for their lives and living in refuge-camps is not something that is pushed by western governments.
There never was a reason to televise some Africans kill other Africans (in fact one party consists of muslim nomads)
To be specific the whole Darfur crisis is allready several years old most people don't give a damn because there is no oil.
I'm not saying Bush should have led the world in an war in Sudan but it would have probably been more usefull (not counting the oil) and saved more lives.
I'm sorry for not being very eloquent.
But the bottomline is this, the more people know what is going on out there the bigger the chance that something gets done.
It's no big deal some of my best friends are M$ certified engineers
Is Google about to show where the prisons were the Chinese torture people who try and spread democracy?
Google Earth (and all similar satelite imagery tools) are just amazing... How long before, for instance, China bans its citizens from using it you think?
In a similar area, Slashdot posted before about maps overAmerican strip mining. Others have collected other links to deforestation, coral reefs, etc.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Participation in the Darfur media circus IS exactly EVIL.
On what planet does this statement make any kind of sense? You're really going to have to back up that reasoning if you want anyone to take you at all seriously.
Wait, never mind. I read your other posts, and you are raving lunatic. Carry on.
If you've got a plan, you should share it. But for a lot of people, it will be a tough sell. Pretty much everyone is aware of what happened when the US intervened in Iraq. Many people still remember Somalia. Why would this turn out differently if "someone put an end to it"? That's a serious question.
I am not a crackpot.
The UN, the EU, and the Arab League say it's not a problem. The US says it is a problem, but is stretched pretty thin right now. So, nothings going to change any time soon.
[Insert pithy quote here]
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Actually, Sudan most definitely has oil. Oil rights were one of the primary causes of the recent civil war between the Sudanese government and the Christian/Animist south. (As a reminder, THAT civil war has been settled and was a different conflict than the events in Darfur.) I do not know if the Darfur region of Sudan has oil.
WTF are you talking about? What market? Google is trying to increase awareness and you (and others) say it's a bad thing? What is wrong with you people?
Adventure, Romance, MAD SCIENCE!
I think the implied joke/dark humor is that the free market would enslave all of these people. The problem right now is that there is no market effect of genocide. If these people were made someone's property and worked for the man, the man would send merceneries to kill the people who want to kill his slaves. Either that, or he's suggesting that the market has determined that these people are non-essential, or even worse, non-consumers, and need to be removed to make room for future consumers.
Yes? What sort of Kool-aid do you drink?
About a quarter million of serbs were forced to move after the end of "humanitarian bombings" ("After the war ended, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 1244 that placed Kosovo under transitional UN administration (UNMIK) and authorized KFOR, a NATO-led peacekeeping force. Almost immediately returning Kosovo Albanians attacked Kosovo Serbs [1], causing some 200,000-280,000[20] Serbs and other non-Albanians[21] to flee"). But that's not a genocide, sure. That's just a "normal migration".
And now Kosovo is the major center of drug trafficking in Europe and poverty levels there are highest in Europe.
Maybe you should read transcripts of Milosevic's trial? Have you ever wondered why such prominent trial was not widely published? My brother did a research for his term paper and found that the court found sufficient evidence for exactly ONE case of war crimes.
There is a story about it here: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2005-10-12-goog
From the article:
If you don't know anything about American history, don't start spouting off about it. While the total numbers of deaths in the American Civil War and the Darfur ethnic cleansing are similar, most of the deaths in the ACW were soldiers, and the deaths were in the same range on each side (around 300k). Most of the deaths in Darfur are civilians. The Confederacy proclaimed independence and was willing to fight to back it up. They had the resources and technology to wage a strong battle, though they eventually lost, in part due to international assistance provided to the Union.
A better comparison would be the killing of native Americans throughout the 19th century, where hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed and many more displaced from their homes. While the native Americans certainly tried to fight back (as I'm sure the civilians of Darfur are trying to do against the Janjaweed soldiers), it was largely a slaughter due to the overwhelming technology, tactics, numbers, and government support of the United States military.
And guess what? It was wrong then, and such things are still wrong now.
If the independent Islamic government of Sudan doesn't wish to be undermined, it should stop supporting the extermination of civilians and actually resolve this "internal conflict". They do nothing to prevent it - to the contrary, they support the killing - and that's why much of the West is pushing the issue.
Um? Katrina pictures?
Not widely published? Did you ever actually search on the subject? I count 31 references in the Wikipedia article alone. I imagine a Google search would pull up thousands of articles.
My brother did a research for his term paper and found that the court found sufficient evidence for exactly ONE case of war crimes.
Not to disrespect your family, but I will not accept "My brother's term paper" as a valid source for the trial of Slobodan Milosevic. Maybe we could all start by reading some of the references in the Wikipedia article I linked to above. On top of that, considering that international law is such a convoluted subject, it's a miracle the Milosevic was ever extradited.
About a quarter million of serbs were forced to move after the end of "humanitarian bombings" ("After the war ended, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 1244 that placed Kosovo under transitional UN administration (UNMIK) and authorized KFOR, a NATO-led peacekeeping force. Almost immediately returning Kosovo Albanians attacked Kosovo Serbs [1], causing some 200,000-280,000[20] Serbs and other non-Albanians[21] to flee"). But that's not a genocide, sure. That's just a "normal migration".
As for your worries about the Serbs and the Kosovo problems, now maybe the Serbians will understand what happened when their proxies (the Bosnian Serbs) performed "ethnic cleansing" on Bosnian Muslims. In other words, the Serbs ended up receiving the same treatment they had been giving everyone else in the Balkans.
If the Serbs want respect, maybe they should have been respectful of others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo#Kosovo_after_t he_war - this article cites a lot of credible references (see the list below). There is much more material in Russian. You can google for it yourself.
It was publicized a bit by Russian TV and newspapers, but Europe completely is silent about the whole Kosovo situation. Small wonder, because number of misplaced Serbs exceed number of Albanian refugees misplaced by evil Milosevic.
On the Chinese problem: at least they mark their pages where censorship has occurred, unlike Yahoo and MSN who do it silently. And censoring the pages of google.cn was the only way they could get inside the Great Firewall. The Chinese language version of google.com is uncensored - but residents of China with insufficient net-fu cannot see it. IMO, the path Google chose was the least evil in an evil world. Either Google with censorship visible, or other search engines (particularly including Chinese government ones) with censorship hidden. At least the Cjhinese paople can wonder what is being hidden.
As for collecting data: it is not evil until they use it for Big Brotherish purposes. Like fire, data is neutral. You can use it to warm yourself, or to burn heretics. If Google start selling personal data, or using it in house for intrusive purposes, they are not guilty of evil. Not all people who buy guns do so to shoot their wives.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
then it is your responsibility
why care about rwanda? why care about iraq? why care about tiananmen square? why care about auschwitz?
why care about any human tragedy? better to just say "not my problem", right?
solves the problem, doesn't it? just stop caring, "not my problem"
"I am not going to adjust my life just to make a few people with bleeding hearts feel better."
good for you. enjoy your life. remember your statement above, when you ask anyone to care about anything you think is important. society is predicated on the fact we look out for each other. if we don't, those who mean ill will succeed: they pick us a part, one by one
so you better care, now, when it is starving people in a third world country being butchered. tomorrow, it is something happening in your neighborhood
poverty and suffering breeds and spreads. it must be fought in all of it's forms, now, today, or that means you only fight it tomorrow, when it is a larger problem. it does not go away on it's own, the sort of problem plaguing darfur. it grows, and spreads. you WILL deal with it, one way or another. when it is small and distant, now, or later, when it is huge and at your doorstep
we live in a world where what happens in kandahar matters in downtown manhattan. what did you learn from 9/11?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Wow. Great strawman. Very well built, and you really knocked it over with verve.
But the problem, you see, is that no is claiming that "That'll make it all OK"... that's where your strawman becomes embarassingly obvious to anyone paying attention. The point isn't to somehow atone for all of "our" past sins by aiding the people of Darfur, the point is to *aid the people of Darfur*.
But, you go on feeling all self-righteous and smug about your spectacular knowledge of the dead and persecuted peoples of the world. Meanwhile, others will actually try and do something in the hopes that such things will be stopped or outright prevented in the future.
That trial was the biggest injustice I've ever seen, after reading a lot of the transcripts. For example, a witness would testify against him for more than a day, and he would be "allowed" to cross examine, but given no time to do so - after one or two questions, he's told his time is up.
Listen up little idealogical liberal. When someone's shooting at you, or hacking your wife to bits with a machete after raping her in front of you; yes, the only course of action that WILL DO ANYTHING is to shoot/fight back. Open a history book once in a while, the proof is in the pudding.
Oh, and since you brought it up (in another thread), Rawanda wasn't stopped by diplomacy. It wasn't stopped by humanitarian aid. It only ended when one side (the 'good' side in this case) militarily defeated the bad guys. That involves shooting people. The UN could have done the same, only much quicker. That's the only thing that would've stopped that horror. Period.
I'm sorry, but evil doesn't stop for words. Evil won't stop and have a cup 'o tea with you to discuss why it's so pissed off and killing your family. The only way to stop evil is to destroy it and those who belong to it.
Should we have tried diplomacy against Hitler, after a million Jews had already been gassed and a few countries were being occupied? Yea, that would've worked.
It's absolutely morally reprehensible that the UN and the West in general does nothing about Africa, I agree. But to pretend that anything can be done there without military force is absurd and ignorant. These people (the Evil ones, not Africans) are subhuman, and there's only one way to deal with them.
I have a question. While you're out playing "big humanitarian," out there in the shit in Africa, or where ever, helping refugees; how do you find time to post to slashdot? Oh, that's right, you're just another spoiled rich ( and probably white ) Westerner like the rest of us.
Talk is cheap kiddo. Get off the computer and go save some refugees if your heart is bleeding so fucking much.
AARGH can people PLEASE start actually making an effort to see the conflict ?
It's ARAB muslims (the "Janjaweed") on horses that kill the non-ARAB BLACK "abdels" (black slaves), who are both muslim and christian. The government of Sudan describes it as a jihad, and as a result, is getting support, people and weapons, from muslims world-wide.
Despite their undoubtedly noble intentions, Googles' rather naive and geekish management does not realize that in fact, by logging and storing everyones personal details, behavior and habits they have created the ultimate foundation for the next Holocaust. The reason why the identification of Jews in some European countries like the Netherlands was so effective and fast, was because of the quality of the (paper)archives with personal records. With the electronically available and very detailed records that Google maintains, identification of people to be prosecuted will be a matter of days, not years. No matter if it is about Jews, Arabs, 'terrorists', anti-republicans or any other group of people that share characteristics that are disliked by the people with power. Assuming that future governments or hackers can be fully trusted to respect current copyright and privacy legislation is a complete denial of history. Larry and Sergey, maybe it is an idea to sit down in your library and read this book that you have scanned yourselves: 'National Identification Systems: Essays in Opposition'
Your point is solid, but non-compelling.
Past sins do not command future performance. Let's learn already!
"We think people rightly feel that once they buy something, it stays bought," --Suw Charman, Open Rights Grp
Sudan's best buddy is China (long term contracts for cheap oil and timber and anything else they can rip out of the ground) , which will continue to use their VETO in the UN to prevent any foreign intervention.
is that problems solve themselves, or that you aren't involved, or that you can make things better by not being involved
no
you must get involved, or problems like darfur spreads. look at the geopolitical environment around darfur. you ask me what the men who are perpetrating the crimes would do next were they to consolidate a base there and take their agenda to the next level. do you think people with ill will and global amibtions don't exist?
0/11 was a one off?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
how blind are you? ever hear of bali? madrid subway bombing? 7/7 in britain? how about what goes on in iraq on a daily basis? who is perpetrating these things?
one off?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. thanks for the comic relief. for all of our sake i really hope you aren't as naive as you present yourself
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
the people in al qaeda, evil as they are, they still understand two things about the world you live in better than you:
1. in the age of jet air travel and the internet, there are no borders for anything
2. you are a human being. you therefore count (in their agenda: you can live under global sharia)
there is no morally or intellectually defensible opinion on any issue anymore except a global one. your attitude made sense once, when spanish galleons plied the oceans. those days are over, and so is your worldview
what killed it? globalization. you, reading my words, right now, on the internet, is all the proof i need to show you you are wrong: i could be sitting in calcutta, yogyakarta, or kandahar. it doesn't matter who i am, or what ethnicity, or what nationality: i am impacting your thoughts and ideas
reflect upon the world around you, and how it is changing, and how the way you view your world has been made obsolete
what happens in kandahar matters in downtown manhattan. no one can think like you after 9/11 and expect to have a valid intellectual or moral compass. welcome to the 21st century. re configure your way of thinking. it is obsolete
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
I suspect all that this is waiting for is a country whose law would require it. Google tends to follow the laws of countries where it operates -- it's not big on civil disobedience.
(IANAL)
Just not in the way you think. Muslims and blacks are fighting and killing each other. So?
It is extremely hard to see why a white european should care OR for that matter even if he cared what the fuck he could do about it.
Who exactly do you propose we shoot?
Because that is the only way to deal with this kinda situation, go in and kill the most agressive party and basically enforce "don't fight or we will kill you".
At the moment some claim that it is the black population that is receiving the worsed of it, so are you saying, in 2007, that the US (because the EU is to chicken shit) should start another war against muslims?
Even americans aren't that insane. *me looks at the americans*
Well, they might be that insane but they can't afford another war that you can't win.
Because the sad fact is this, you CANNOT end a force by conflict UNLESS you use extreme force and that is no longer acceptable. If the US intervenes and just one muslim child is claimed to have been killed (it is well known that muslims claims in this area are about as trustworthy as ANY propaganda claim has been in the whole of human history) the shit will hit the fan and it will face the exact same problems as in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The website you linked to reminds me an awfull lot of similar sites urging the western leaders to save the poor koerds. That went awfully well remember? Do you promise this time to remember what your bleeding heart cried out today when next week a US plane drops a bomb and some photographer show the corpse of a child (and again at another bombsite, several days later?)
No you won't and western leaders know this. They rather take the short, easily forgotten critisim of doing nothing. Because they know people like you, can't be counted upon to accept what needs to be done.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You're quite obviously trolling. The Qur'an says absolutely nothing of the kind. In fact, until recently, Islamic states were seen as places of refuge for Jews and non-orthodox Christians (those who did not believe in the "Holy Trinity") due to the religous tolerance there. Instead of being persecuted as they were by orthodox Christians, they were allowed to practice their own religion with the stipulation that they not attempt to convert anyone. Muslims saw Jews and Christians as fellow "People of The Book." The differences came about because Muslims believed that all prophets before Muhammad had been misunderstood, and that God had directly visited Muhammad to establish a "corrective." This corrective became the Qur'an.
This is not about Islam or the Qur'an itself. It is about whacked out religious nuts and their crazy interpretations. Unfortunately, we seem to get these nutcases with every religion.
I apologize for being somewhat off-topic with this post, but I could not bring myself to ignore the parent, even if it is a trolling AC.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
Who says you can't warm yourself by burning heretics?
Seems to me that's the more efficient use of fire
Live forever, or die trying.
I've seen tons of complaints here and attached to the original article page demanding why google maps doesn't highlight [insert favorite genocidal nightmare here]. Remember that what they're doing is free. They didn't have to do anything at all -- which I bet is what 99.9% of all the bitchers have done about [insert favorite genocidal nightmare here] or Darfur. So quit your bitching and learn. Maybe ... just maybe google plans to expand what it's doing to other issues. They didn't add a "Global Awareness layer" to the application just to highlight one issue did they?
That's not actually how it goes. Pastor Niemöller was quite the anti-Semite, actually.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
Over the past few years they have done the exact opposite and these are not conspiracy theories or Google bashing but just plain facts:
If a local law would force Google to hand over the data of people I am confident that they will. You are confident that it they wont't, which from my point of view is naive. It's the difference between the real world and the Truman Show.