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Montana Says No to Real ID, Passes Law to Deny It
SoCalChris writes "Montana's governor signed a bill yesterday in defiance of the Real ID Act. House Bill 287 [PDF] requires the Montana Motor Vehicle Division to not implement the provisions of the Real ID Act, and to report to the governor any attempts by any agent or agency of the Department of Homeland Security to attempt to implement the bill. Montana is the first state to implement such a law."
Considering how corrupt the federal government has become over the past few decades, I think it's about time individuals and states alike started taking back their rights.
I hope Montana doesn't fold when the feds start pressing them like everyone did over the drinking age.
Isn't this what Republicans used to be like? For state powers and against centralization? What would that make Bush? Fascist?
I am a huge fan of the Montana state legislature right. To unanimously pass that kind of legislation says two things :
1. They are for their constituents interests on this one.
2. They are standing up for State's rights and not handing over ever more power to the federal government.
Kudos to you Montana. As Stephen Colbert migh say, You've got balls!
US constitution never envisioned federal government regulating every small detail of our lives, be it a form of ID used or smoking pot in the privacy of one's backyard. It aberrant to subject 149 million people to a preference of 151 million. It's time to delegate most decisions to state level, where they would be hopefully passed on to local governments to honor the spirit of constitution (that was written when the whole US population was smaller than some metropolitan areas now).
Thank you Montana! This will probably ending up going to the Supreme Court, and I hope Montana wins. The requirements for the "Real ID" are ridiculous. I don't even know where my birth certificate is! I've had a valid state driver's license for 17 years- suddenly I need to prove again that I was born? I've had a valid SSN (and card) for 20-some years- I now need to re-prove my national id (c'mon, you know it is)? Utility bills- am I joining a library? Hell, will I need 3 references, a DNA sample, resume, and a documentary (on DVD of course) of my life next?
All this does is make life harder on regular people. Just like gun laws- when the current laws are not being upheld, lets make more! Just uphold the current laws on getting a driver's license. At least in Pennsylvania, you have to provide a birth certificate and another form of ID. If the states' held up this standard in the first place, you wouldn't have to implement a secondary layer. Pass a law making the states to uphold their current standards.
Blah, I hate government in general. Sorry, just had to pay taxes....
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
2. They are standing up for State's rights and not handing over ever more power to the federal government.
Montana has pretty much always stood up for states rights. The one tyme I can think of they didn't was when they raised the legal age for drinking to 21.
I'm glad to see another state stand up against the Real ID Act. But as Vermont's logo is "Do not tread on me" I'm supprised they didn't pass such a law first.
FalconShould there be a Law?
As it is, bin Laden (if alive) and his crew must be guffawing about how they've destroyed so much of that 'decadent infidel regime' in the west that also goes by the name of 'freedom'.
Not really, because the idea that they "hate us for our freedom" is pure bullshit propaganda. They hate us for continually dicking around in the Middle East, and we are still doing it, and it's getting worse. The fact that we're throwing away our civil liberties is incidental to people like Bin Laden.
If only people and their elected respresentatives in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, as well as other US states were as feisty about their privacy, then the real thrust of the 9/11 attacks would be rendered null and void. As it is, bin Laden (if alive) and his crew must be guffawing about how they've destroyed so much of that 'decadent infidel regime' in the west that also goes by the name of 'freedom'.
I don't get your statement. I get up in the morning, feed my child, take a shower, go to work, go home, do my wife, go to bed. The same as I did before the government took away all my rights. Please tell me what I'm missing so I can be an angry citizen like yourself.
Thank you.
ArcherB
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
who hasn't broken some law or another?
Thats the key phrase, right there.
who hasn't broken some law or another?
For those people that dont care about CCTV and Orwellian ideas that they have in Britain because they dont think of themselvs as a criminal, Think Again.
In Singapore chewing gum and spitting are crimes
Speeding is a crime, not using your turn signals is a crime
Books and CD's have been banned in schools
Trans Fat is illegal in some cities
And it works both ways, Republicans or Democrats, Left or Right.
What if gun were banned?
Missed Child Payments
what if using a racial slur was a criminal offense
Getting angry and making a threat.
Vengeful Neighbours
Banning certain music or concerts dances clothes
its goes on and on and on
Sadly, its not to hard to imagine.
Once the goverment gots you, the GOT you, your in the system.
good luck trying to fly
good luck renewing your license (Driving, Hunting, Practicing whatever...)
good luck getting a job or a mortgage
The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
You lost the same freedoms that non-drinkers lost during prohibition. Just because you're not excercising all your freedoms doesn't mean you haven't lost any. The US government now has the ability to imprison you *without evidence*. The administration (not just this one but any one in the future) can call up the CIA/FBI, tell them that they have reason to believe you are a terrorist and you will be put in jail with no access to a lawyer, no phone call, no trial, nothing. You will stay there indefinitely.
Now, I'm sure Bush is the most moral person on the planet, so HE would never do that, but you've now opened the door for *some* future administrator to claim that one of his more radical political opponents is a terrorist and that political rival will disappear, effectively becoming a political prisoner, just like Mandela was in South Africa. Only nobody will know where this person even went.
With that kind of power, it's inevitable that some day the US will become a place where people are afraid to openly criticize their government.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Under no government regime would you have a problem if you just ignored what is around you, stayed in you little life and never gave a damn.
Even under Nazi* rule, you would have been fine.
Of course the moment there is a glitch, or someone that doesn't like you makes a phone call, then you relize those things you never used may have been a tad important.
Tlak to annyone who has had some lie to authorities about child abuse. They are guilty until proven innocent. Even if that can prove there own innocents, you are still watched and checked up on.
Now, how can you prove to me you haven't abused your child?
That is the same kind of logic the admintration, homeland security, and the people running Gitmo use.
Along with questions like
"Will you stop all terrorist acitivties?"
" I never..."
"YES OR NO!"
"no"
"So you admit you were a terrorist."
*I am not comparing this situation with the Nazi. Only using the to illistrate that jst because you keep your head down and don't make waves doesn't mean you have any rights.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'd be willing to bet good money that in the next congressional and senatorial elections after that, the vast majority of the incumbents were re-elected.
So, if we don't bother to unelect them when they abuse us, aren't we really just getting the government we deserve?
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/29426prs20070418.
Didn't figure we had too many Montanans on /. Huh.
Now if only our "libertarian" government would quit kowtowing to the influx of Californian cash, maybe we really CAN keep this state free...
We didn't get to vote on the open container law. We didn't get to vote on the smoking ban. They were pushed through by legislators catering to the new citizens in the Yellowstone Club. Just love it when people leave their state because they don't like what it's turning into, and the first thing they do when they get somewhere else is push to make it more like what they left.
-l
The Washington state legislature submitted SB 5087 to the governor to be signed at 9am this morning, saying that we would not implement the Real ID Act unless the feds paid for it in full (which they won't), and unless they can prove that it won't be a burden on the state infrastructure or on the people of the state (which they can't). Also it says that the attorney general of Washington state has the right to challenge the Real ID Act on legal and constitutional grounds.
l ls/Senate%20Passed%20Legislature/5087-S.PL.pdf
I assume it was signed, though it hasn't been announced yet.
Full text here:
http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2007-08/Pdf/Bi
You lost the same freedoms that non-drinkers lost during prohibition.
Well, a non-drinker during prohibition lost the "right" to drink. Can you tell me what a federal ID will prevent me from doing?
As to the rest of your post, I don't see how a national ID standard gives the Feds any more power than they have now.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Benjamin Franklin said it best way back in 1775: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin Feb. 17th, 1775 I was born in MT have lived here all my life. Today I am very proud of my state.
Truth is we don't have an immigration problem.. we have a welfare problem.
What are we scared of? Why not allow anyone to come into this country? It will make us so much stronger of a nation. Immigrants wont always be poor if we give them the freedom to be successful.
Besides this we have no reason to be tracking our people in a free nation. ID just does not prevent crime. We do not live in Soviet Amerika yet.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
How do you know, have you done any research on using hemp instead of nylon?
As a climber I'd hate to carry a wet hemp rope
The cords of the parachute that saved expres Bush Sr, when he bailed out over the Pacific when his plane was shotdown were probably made from hemp. The US government went so far as to make a movie, "Hemp for Victory", to encourage farmers to grow hemp during the Second World War partially because of the need for ropes. Now I've never carried hemp cord so I can't say how heavy it would be dry or soaked, but the gov decided it was worth it to grow hemp. Admittedly though nylon cord is light, while I've done a little climbing and would like to do more, I used to repel a lot. Off of clifts mostly but some out of helicopters.
and as a driver I'd hate to have a celluloid air bag in my car.
How do you know air bags made from hemp wouldn't be able to do the job? Or is there some other problem?
FalconShould there be a Law?
Did I say that?
s _with_compulsory_identity_cards ). Though I'm sure that only poor people get harassed about it, when driving around in your limo you won't have to worry. And despite all the elaborate security functions, I'm sure it is easy to pay to get another ID card. France requires you to provide sufficient ID, and Wikipedia explains how the ID checks are common, mainly in poor areas ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ID#France ). And then we have South Africa with its old pass laws ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_Law ).
Though I am sure that Nazi Germany, the USSR for much of its history had a national card. Papers please. Oh, and Greece has a national ID card that you must produce on request ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ID#Countrie
My point is not that a place will become totalitarian, simply that it becomes a heck of a lot easier. The benefits are mainly for those who would increase the power of the state.
I wank in the shower.
I don't get your statement. I get up in the morning, feed my child, take a shower, go to work, go home, do my wife, go to bed. The same as I did before the government took away all my rights. Please tell me what I'm missing so I can be an angry citizen like yourself.
Good morning friend!
We noticed a number of oddities in our records and were hoping you might like to demonstrate your patriotism with an explanation of yesterday's infractions:
1) Your daily alotment of water is 379.35 gallons (US). It appears that you have attempted to do 2 loads of laundry and flush your toilet 5 times, in addition to your standard morning usage. Since your grace quantity is 25 gallons, we must inform you that you have now garnered 7.35 misdemeanor points on your RealID.
2) Food sensors indicate that your Child ingested nearly 53 grams of processed sugars yesterday. As you are well aware such dangerous levels of sucrose can lead to hyperactivity and possible injury, not to mention severe oral hygene problems and a pronounced increase in the likelihood of obesity. We have passed our records on to your local child services coordinator. We hope that with the proper supervision you will be better able to manage the health and patriotism of your child. Since this is your second offense, we are required to inform you that any further infractions will lead to a temporary revocation of your "parent" status. Also, 12.1 misdemeanor points have been added to your RealID total.
3) It has come to our attention that your intimate relations with your wife do not conform with the three prescribed forms. Please see publication 14T-S for a full description of the acceptable forms. Please be aware that continued violation of this statute will lead to a full review of your marriage license. Since this is a first offense, and the position in question was judged to have been "in transitition", no misdemeanor points have been assigned. In the future it would be wise to decouple before attempting to roll over.
Of course, due to the nature and severity of these infractions, these matters cannot be reviewed by the open court system, as they might incite further acts of indecency and treason. If you feel you have been wrongly implicated and seek judicial review of these convictions, please present yourself at your nearest processing station on the 15th of the month. If cleared you will be released no later than the 25th of the following month.
And remember, only terrorists and traitors have anything to hide!
The whole point of requiring an ID is to institute laws that will prevent you from doing certain things without the ID. That' and to make sure that when you do those things, the government can know about it.
And if they want to know about it, you may ask yourself what they are going to do with this knowledge.
"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
Sure, the wretchedly tiny minority of genuinely good people in small government is slightly larger than the wretchedly tiny minority of genuinely good people in big government ... but that's like saying that a vegan's feces will have more intact kernels of corn than those of a guy who eats nothing but steak. Either way, you have to go rooting through shit to find out, and neither is really any better than the other. There are easier ways to get corn.
And "individuals"? They are remarkably rare. Anyone who actually thinks about anything beyond who America's next top model will be, is in such a small and inconsequential group of people that nothing they do is capable of having any real impact on anything ... other than to invent new technologies that can be used to make everyone more affluent and less free.
I know, it's hard to accept the reality of this: one of the most fascinating psychological phenomena discovered in the past decade is the fact that nearly all Human behaviour and social understanding is predicted on the assumption that we are in the majority. We assume that whatever we want, whatever we believe, whatever we choose, is what most everyone else will wants/believes/chooses. But if you actually stop to think about anything beyond the most superficial drivel, you have placed yourself in a tiny, tiny minority, and nothing about you or what you think or believe is even remotely representative of your society.
The GOP is for states rights when it suits their interests, and against them when it suits their interests. Just as they aren't really against "big government", they're against social spending - bring on the military spending and the corporate pork projects. Or how they talk about keeping government out of people's lives, and then turn around and ban gay marriage. Democrats are the same way, of course - but they haven't spent the last few decades being two faced hypocrites about it.
It's just that nothing happens to them. Often they are released back into the community. Even if you dumped them over the border, they come back.
This ID card will not help with keeping illegal aliens out of the country because we don't DO anything when they are caught.
It WILL allow the government more control and easier suveilance of all citizens. This I cannot abide.
Blar.