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More Battery Problems for Sony

Posted by samzenpus on from the not-again dept.

nevillethedevil writes "Looks like more problems for Sony batteries. According to pcmag, Acer is warning that some faulty batteries in its laptops could overheat and cause a fire. They will be recalling almost 27,000 Sony made lithium-ion batteries."

69 comments

  1. Part of Sony PR Campaign by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Sony, the hottest name in batteries!"

    1. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by CaptainPatent · · Score: 5, Funny

      They sure made a battery that can burn through the competition!

      --
      Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
    2. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Funny

      Did you hear about their liquidation sale? Deals so hot, they'll EXPLODE! Their sales staff are ON FIRE! Call now!

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      My blog
    3. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Dear Slashdot,

      I don't know what the problem is. They had to choose between Magnetbox, Panaphonics, and Sorny. I'm glad they chose to go with genuine Sorny as they are known for quality manufacturing.

      Signed,
      Homer

    4. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by Mushdot · · Score: 1

      Be part of Exploding@HOME !

    5. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by kjart · · Score: 1

      All they need to do is harness this so that you can set them off on demand - just the thing if the feds come a knocking.

    6. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are so many things wrong with you that I hardly know where to begin:

      1. You store data on your hard drive, not in your battery.

      2. You think that an explosion will destroy the contents of your hard drive.

      3. You think that the batteries actually explode. They don't they burn.

      4. You think a fire will destroy the contents of your hard drive.

      5. You're concerned about "the Feds" but you're posting with your username.

      6. You think "the Feds" will knock.

      7. You think "the Feds" give a shit about what you're doing.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    7. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by Starteck81 · · Score: 0

      They really should take all those defective batteries and sell them as fire starters at REI

      --
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
    8. Re:Part of Sony PR Campaign by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Informative

      You think a fire will destroy the contents of your hard drive.


      It might, it might not. It depends on how hot the fire gets. A battery fire that doesn't set off a 5-alarm blaze isn't like to do much to your average HDD's platters, if anything. A 5-alarm blaze that burns hot enough in close proximity can very easily melt a typical HDD's aluminum platters to the point that data cannot be recovered. (aluminum has a very low melting point) Note that there's no guarantees, though, that at least SOME data MIGHT be salvageable, since HDDs have been known to survive fires with some or even all data intact.

      6. You think "the Feds" will knock.


      Sure they will. With a nice a big stick. ;)

      --
      My blog
  2. Well ... by BlueTrin · · Score: 1

    I think we could classify that in the category "laptop can damage men genitals" ... *ouchy*

    --
    Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
  3. Great job, PC Mag. by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 5, Informative

    Any time I read about a lithium battery catching fire, I always wonder why the reporting sources don't educate the public about the inherent danger of a lithium fire, specifically the fact that water really isn't a good thing to be putting on it.

    1. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by jimstapleton · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know, I know this, yet I probably wouldn't have thought about it untill after tossing water on the burning battery myself...

      Very good point on such a hot topic...

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    2. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      What is the proper way anyway? A nitrogen extinguisher?

    3. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by robbiethefett · · Score: 1

      to be honest, i have no idea how a lithium fire differs from any other kind of fire.. so care to enlighten me? why is water a bad thing? what's the proper technique for putting the fire out? are you aware of other common blunders that exacerbate the situation?

      --
      "Luke, you've switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?"
    4. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No? Someone care to elaborate?

    5. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by jimstapleton · · Score: 4, Informative

      * Water may be used to extinguish packaging fires if batteries have not ruptured; water is not an effective extinguishing agent for a battery fire.


      That pretty much confirms the GP's post. As for why? Lithium is a strong electron doner, as such it will react quite well with almost anything containing oxygen, just like any element on the far left of the periodic table. Another good example is magnesium.
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    6. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Lithium can be oxidated by almost anything, even whater. So, throwing wahter at the fire will just make it worse.

      But I don't know what to do about it. Maybe a nitrogen extinguisher can be used. Probably a CO2 one can be used too, but that is dangerous enough by itself. I guess the best way of dealing with it is taking the battery to some safe place and let it burn alone there.

      --
      Rethinking email
    7. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

      Any time I read about a lithium battery catching fire, I always wonder why the reporting sources don't educate the public about the inherent danger of a lithium fire, specifically the fact that water really isn't a good thing to be putting on it.

      Can you please let us know what we put on it? Copper powder and so on, is kinda hard thing to wear in your pocket at all times, in case your laptop melts and catches fire.

    8. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason will be something along these lines,

      though less dramatic as Lithium is lower in the reactivity series than Magnesium.

      As I recall (GCSE chemistry, don't fail me now!) Lithium ignites on contact with water, and the burning is especially "catalysed" (is that the right use of that word? I don't know) by steam. Hence, if you already have some Lithium on fire, and you throw water on it, the water will turn into steam and will in fact encourage the burning by forming Lithium Hydroxide (I'm starting to guess now) which, if it's anything like the magnesium in the Wikipedia article I cited, will burn better than just plain old Lithium.

      Apparently, what you need is a class D fire extinguisher, which - again according to Wikipedia works as follows: "Sodium Chloride and Copper forms a crust over the burning metal and performs like a heat sink to draw heat away from the burning material, also smothers to a degree.". So, best guess would be to throw a shedload of salt all over the fire.

      I now await a real chemist to point out all the mistakes I have doubtless just made...

    9. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by delt0r · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even more amusing is the fact that many of these laptops/batterys are permited on aircraft but not liquids over a 100ml or whatever.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    10. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lithium violently reacts with water, do the wrong thing and you change a hot but small fire into an explosion.
      While it is not the exact best solution, a class B fire extinguisher (CO2) can help keeping things under some control by screening O2 out and cooling down the fire.

    11. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 1

      And with lithium, you don't need an ice-filled bathtub and 12 hours to have something explosive.

    12. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by faloi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nah, CO2 has the potential to react just as badly on Class D fires. The only recommended ways I know of involve, essentially, smothering the flames entirely. Powdered copper-based extinguishers were developed, I believe, to fight fires involving lithium.

      --
      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
    13. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by demon+driver · · Score: 1

      Lithium is a strong electron doner I'll have mine with garlic, please.
    14. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Soruk · · Score: 3, Funny

      Extinguishing the nitrogen won't help.

      --
      -- Soruk
    15. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by kunakida · · Score: 5, Informative

      A lithium battery has very little lithium in it. Some of the lithium is already converted to lithium oxide.

      Just remember that any fire needs 3 things: oxygen, fuel and heat. Remove any one and you kill the fire.
      Also consider that the most important thing about a fire is how quickly it will expand. You can expect a fire to double in size roughly every 20 to 30 seconds if it has material available to burn.

      1st - get someone else (if there is someone else) to call the fire department. If you fail to contain the fire, you need professionals help ASAP. If you are alone and you think you can handle it without taking chances, you can call the fire department after first trying to handle it. Use your judgement and stay calm.

      If the fire is still small, just grab the device containing it and toss it into a empty (empty it out if necessary) metal trash can (or a clear area of concrete floor if available) and wait until the fire burns out. Do protect your eyes by avoiding looking at it as much as possible while you are holding it. If you have some sort of rubber or sufficiently thick cotton mat (like a fire blanket), you can use that to cover the fire and contain it until you can put it in the trash can. The mat may catch fire eventually, but it will be more resistant than most other things. Do not use a plastic sheet as plastic melts and if it gets on your skin it can cause some bad blistering. Once it is in the trash can do not cover it with something unless you are sure it is not flammable and will resist high heat - a fire is harder to fight if you cannot see it. Do monitor the fire in the garbage can to see that it does not grow.

      Otherwise, if the fire is too big for you to carry the device containing the battery, the fuel for the fire is now overwhelmingly whatever it is sitting on or surrounded by, so fight that type of fire instead. The lithium left in the battery is irrelevant.

      In any case, a large volume of water will cool any type of fire sufficiently to a more manageable level, and make most surrounding combustibles harder to ignite. The important thing to remember about using water is to turn off A/C power from wall sockets etc. first.

      If at any point you feel you can't manage to handle the fire, just get out of the building in a calm manner and wait for the fire department. Make sure everyone gets out and keep people from returning inside.

    16. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      That should be: Lithium can be oxidated by anything, Especially water.

      Doesn't anybody remember the demonstration in science class where the teacher took out the lithium, dropped it in water, and you watched it react. Although the potassium was much more impressive. Boom. That's all I gotta say.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    17. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 2, Funny

      The proper way is to convince someone to pee on the fire while you film it from a save distance.

    18. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by takev · · Score: 1

      That is because you shouldn't use that 500ml water bottle to stop a laptop battery fire.
      Tssss.

    19. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Look around, can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe?

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    20. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Doc+Lazarus · · Score: 1

      In essence it's a Alkali Metal, which means any water will cause one heck of an explosion. Thank you, Mr. Braunlich of Eighth Grade Physical Science, for demonstrating that in class to great effect!

    21. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Any time I read about a lithium battery catching fire, I always wonder why the reporting sources don't educate the public about the inherent danger of a lithium fire, specifically the fact that water really isn't a good thing to be putting on it.


      Could it be, perhaps, that it's because it's actually a lithium-ION batteries? As in, no (or very little) metallic lithium since everyone knows the dangers of lithium by itself?

      The flames themselves are caused by chemical instability at high temperatures, causing them to rupture and ignite gases (producing more flames), heating the cells beside it until they too become unstable...
    22. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by mstahl · · Score: 2, Informative

      The proper way is with a dry chemical fire extinguisher rated for electrical and metal fires, so a class ABC or BC fire extinguisher. They usually spray out a combination of carbon dioxide and/or baking soda-like material and can safely be used on any kind of fire.

    23. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      No, lithium reacts with nitrogen (and hot lithium reacts with nitrogen fast enough to support burning).

    24. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by stuew · · Score: 1

      awww. Comon'! 1 point? Didn't you knuckleheads get the joke?
      A strong electron -döner-, or in english spelled doner.
      Galic, herb or hot sauce?

    25. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by ^_^x · · Score: 1

      In North America, class C is electrical, and class D is for extinguishing metal fires.
      I'd say look for a class CD extinguisher, but I have no idea how available they might be as C use nonconductive media, and D are usually salt and powdered copper...

    26. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by mstahl · · Score: 1

      Recalling my machine shop classes ages ago, yes, you're absolutely right. B is for liquid fuel fires.

      Either way, it's not so much tripping the connections on the battery I'd be worried about. I'd be much more concerned about the reaction between lithium and water where the lithium steals electrons, freeing oxygen and hydrogen from the water. Fun times!

    27. Re:Great job, PC Mag. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good part of the fire in some lithium batteries comes from either the charged cathode or the flammable electrolyte. The anode does contribute to the fire, but is not the only component. The anode (where any pure Li would be) is the only part of the battery that would react sigificantly with water.

      And, as another poster pointed out, it's not actually lithium in most batteries nowadays, it's some carbon that has been charged with lithium (for most Li-ion batteries anyway). Straight lithium batteries generally aren't rechargable, so aren't the ones put in laptops. However, the charged anode would react somewhat similarly to water as lithium would.

  4. my question by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

    TFA mentions other manufacturers issued the recall months ago- which manufacturers and then why is this news only now that Acer recalled theirs?

    1. Re:my question by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      The other manufacturers were news as well.

      Dell was HUGE news (maybe a year ago?), there was also Toshiba (the only batteries that didn't actually catch fire, but were recalled anyway - the just suddenly, and unexplosively stoped working). I think Apple, HP/Compaq and Sony themselves would also be on the list.

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    2. Re:my question by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about the first incidence of the sony recall, or is this inbetween then and now?

      Forgive my confusion in advance please.

    3. Re:my question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

      The interesting thing about that is, there is no "false" or "unjustified" in the phrase. Effectively - FUD is not necessarily bad, in fact, if justified and properly backed up (which is often the case with Sony), it's a good thing. Believe it or not, there's nothing wrong with warning people about a company that will abuse them every chance it gets.

  5. Take a leaf from Apple's book by Threni · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Deny it, then only replace it if legally bound too. US customers get a replacement iPod battery, UK customers can fuck off and buy a competitors product. (Good thing the 60gb Creative Zen Vision M is better than the equivalent Apple product).

    You can only take the piss out of your paying customers once.

    1. Re:Take a leaf from Apple's book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zen Vision M is nice.

  6. Sony should hire Paris Hilton to advertise... by jimstapleton · · Score: 3, Funny

    Their batteries...

    She could look at the battery in a commercial, and it would burst into flames. She would then say her catch phrase in her normal-brain-dead manner...

    --
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    1. Re:Sony should hire Paris Hilton to advertise... by Guerilla*+Napalm · · Score: 5, Funny

      I would prefer if she looked at the battery, and then she burst into flames.

    2. Re:Sony should hire Paris Hilton to advertise... by jimstapleton · · Score: 3, Funny

      Everyone would.

      Actually, I don't think they'd care if she looked at the battery or not.

      --
      34486853790
      Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
  7. For those who don't know... by Capeman · · Score: 3, Informative

    From wikipedia: Lithium fires are difficult to extinguish, requiring special chemicals designed to smother them.

  8. Painfull by Tinfoil · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, I do have a couple of affected Acer laptops, and so far the process is painfull. The operators on the other end answer the phone in a language unknown to me, though they promptly switched to very understandable english after I spoke. However, the line quality is so horrible that my call was dropped 3 times so far, and I still haven't processed a replacement request.

    Great jorb, Acer!

    --

    tinfoilmedia
    1. Re:Painfull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Great jorb, Acer!

      Coach Z, is that you?

    2. Re:Painfull by Tinfoil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even better is the 3 to 6 weeks it is to take for the replacement to arrive. Now I need to go out and buy another battery just in case the current one decides to asplode and take my naughty bits with it.

      --

      tinfoilmedia
    3. Re:Painfull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're on slashdot. What possible use could you have for your naughty bits? In the average slashdotter's case reproductive organs are vestigial.

      Hope this helps address your concerns!

  9. Excuse my ignorance but... by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 1

    Their batteries...

    She could look at the battery in a commercial, and it would burst into flames. She would then say her catch phrase in her normal-brain-dead manner... What's Paris Hilton's catchphrase, "Sony's lithium-ion batteries are liable to burst into flames please be aware there is a recall"?
    --
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  10. This really makes my by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    balls itch.

  11. better safe than Sony by biduxe · · Score: 5, Funny

    "All parties felt it was better to be safe than Sony," the Acer spokesman said

    1. Re:better safe than Sony by kai6novice · · Score: 1

      Where do they make it? I assume is "Made in China." LOL

  12. What a great company Sony is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was it the built in rootkit that caused the batteries to catch fire?

    Why does ANYBODY buy ANYTHING that company makes? ESPECIALLY computers? If they'll put a rootkit on a music CD, what will they do to a computer? I mean, besides make it explode?

    1. Re:What a great company Sony is! by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

      They used to come over and cut off your balls if you messed with the maffia, now these days they send rigged laptops that burn them off.

    2. Re:What a great company Sony is! by Bugs42 · · Score: 1

      Why does ANYBODY buy ANYTHING that company makes? ESPECIALLY computers? Well, at least partially because Sony didn't make the computer, just the battery. If you'd bothered to RTFA, or even just the summary, you'd see that the affected computers were made by Acer.
      --
      Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
  13. didnt sony already recall the batteries? by brunascle · · Score: 1

    didnt sony already recall all of them? you mean there are still some ticking time bombs out there?

  14. No haha tag? Do we like SONY today? by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    What has Slashdot come to? I surely expected a haha tag on this article.

    -ted

  15. Lithium batteries are not safe for consumers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lithium batteries are not safe for consumers. That is all there is to it. For decades the only lithium batteries sold to the public were small coin sized ones, where the hazard is limited by the quantity of lithium present. Batteries with large amounts of lithium in them are not safe for the public to use under any conditions. As they say, shit happens, and when it does, you do not want lithium in your batteries.

    Throw a piece of an alkali metal in water (with extreme caution, use an explosion hood, or outdoors at a great distance) to understand better why the public should not use lithium batteries. Potassium, Sodium or Lithium, (in increasing order of reactivity) all react violently on exposure to water or even moist air.

    I'll say it again: Lithium batteries are not safe for public consumer use. They never have been and never will be.

    1. Re:Lithium batteries are not safe for consumers. by ^_^x · · Score: 1

      I agree that the current designs are unsafe, but your analogy betrays a misunderstanding of how the batteries actually work - there is no solid Lithium in a Lithium ion battery. There is however, a cathode made of Lithium Cobalt Oxide, which can catastrophically overheat if heated beyond a given point. If the cathode is replaced with something else (shouldn't take too long, we have multiple companies with different competing technologies vying to be the next standard now) the battery would be much safer.

      There is always the dilemma of X amount of potential energy in a pack with Y volume though - with any battery type. When you're carrying a CD case sized battery with 90Wh (?) a catastrophic failure runs the risk of releasing a LOT of energy either at once, or over time. But that's something we'll just have to deal with and make safer as we miniaturize and improve portable power technologies.

  16. Sony missed their true calling by Bugs42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why is Sony wasting their time making electronics? Clearly, they could make a FORTUNE in the international arms market.

    --
    Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
  17. This is just a feature ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

    ... that Sony is researching as a means to ensure the destruction of your device if there is any detected violation of DRM or attempts to remove the rootkit.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  18. Imagine a Beowulf... by Sody · · Score: 1

    Oh, never mind, I don't really have to. The Tesla Roadster uses 6,831 Li-ion laptop batteries for energy storage. This could be a big problem for the future of electric vehicles!

  19. Acer site to request a replacement battery by Mr.+X · · Score: 1

    Acer has put up a site that contains information on the recall and allows you to begin the replacement process.
    http://www.acerbatteryrecall.com/

  20. It's worth noting by Solr_Flare · · Score: 1

    It's worth noting that, while Sony is certainly to blame to a certain extent in regards to the Acer laptop problem, Acer laptops themselves are such horrid cheap pieces of garbage that I cringe whenever I see one. The only reason companies usually sell Acer laptops/desktops is because they have a large profit margin because of the cheapness of the components used.

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